₦airaland Forum

Image123: You are one funny fellow you know? So after haranguing me all the while for my loss of interest in tithe talk WITH the usual suspects, i then succumb to your yearnings only for you to tell me what i have being telling you all these while. BTW, are these the touted unanswered questions?

You're one clownish fellow you know? So after telling you a number of times that I'm not interested in getting you interested again in tithe discussions, you succumb to your innate inclination to twist scriptures and bend biblical events out of shape then turn round and blame me for your inability to remain true to your resolve? How childish? Anyway I'm happy I gave you an excuse to indulge once again in your favourite enjoyment: twisting scriptures to your satisfaction.

You and I have had so many debates, discussions and arguments on tithes so much so that its an exercise in futility to attempt a correction of each others mindset. My interest is on genuine truth seekers on this issue and I'll keep posting questions and perspectives to sharpen their curiosity and get their consciences pricked.

For readers, below are some threads where we all have had opportunity to write epistles on the tithe matter. I'll post more as I remember them

https://www.nairaland.com/1548047/theological-discuss-tithing-rhymeyjohn-image123

https://www.nairaland.com/1456343/tithes-offerings-eternal-principles

https://www.nairaland.com/1430102/old-vs-new-covenant-revelation

Image123: Good for you.

Sure

Image123: duh, i immediately created a thread for that very purpose. Like i said, i don't want to spoil the party here or ruffle any peacock feathers. You guys were asking for it, now it's here. At least, we have drumb off my back, hehehe. Next

I saw the thread you created my friend. Wish you a great party there and much more.

Happy this thread can now proceed in peace.

Cheers man

DrummaBoy: ^^^

Please can we continue the discuss where it left off?

Enough of distractions.

F9 continues... please.

I agree with this idea. Image has been given the space to point out what he thinks are lies so I think the discussants should continue with their points so as not to derail the thread or stop the flow.

Interested parties can engage image and his points after the presentations end.

Thanks and God bless

Gombs: umm candour,its a bit too early to derail the thread,why dont u just let folks with such experiences have the floor?if dey then wish to share the reason(s),fine.

Haba my friend, I just waka come na!! You're right, my question might derail it actually but that's not the intention. Wish he could have been more detailed but then if not no problem.

op,me thinks whatever reason it was shd nt be shared here,especially nairaland.the next question would be "what is the name of ur church"?

You should know I don't do denomination politics but agreed it might be dragged down that lane.

Can you share with us why you were suspended? That is if you don't mind.

Thanks

Image123: If you had paid attention from where you started, you would have read me say that i do not mind and i'm not worried about the name callings or being considered a troll. But thank God all the same, He opened your eyes to that not too late. Again, if you read, you would have seen me say that i would be sending in the lies Gnoni posted before Monday seeing that is your idea of contributions. You fail to remove the log of wood in your eye as you hardly noticed that ALL your five or six posts so far on this thread have been personal attacks directed at my humble self. You have failed to contribute to this thread except with the aim of trolling me like you were paid to. Fortunately for you, Gnoni has given recommendations on what i can do to your case. i would be considering his advice.

@the bolded.At long last, he heeds an advice. Who said the thread has nothing good to offer? My friend finally learns something useful. Thank God for mercies. You were a diversion on the thread and my involvement was to get you focused. Finally you get the message and understand. Time for me to step back to the sidelines and continue learning.

Abeg go ahead and contribute something worthwhile to the thread instead of the childish journey you embarked on since inception for which unfortunately, you were not paid

OLAADEGBU: Where you complicate issues is when you put the cart before the horse. It is only when we are justified by faith in Christ are able to keep the commandments by His grace and not the other way round.

If this is your inference from the article you posted, I rest my case here. I actually inferred something different and I wouldn't like to turn this thread to another one for argument.

I was blessed by the article and for that I say thanks for sharing it.

Cheers bro.

OLAADEGBU: Yes. The first to the 9th commandment.

Did you see this part in your OP?

OLAADEGBU: Words of Comfort: Keeping the Sabbath.

Scripture makes it clear that no one can be justified (made right with God) by keeping the Sabbath holy, or by keeping any other Commandment.

Pls what are the implications of the above quote?

OLAADEGBU: That is the reason why Jesus said "Man is not made for Sabbath but Sabbath for man". But the moral law, which is the rest the decalogue is what God is going to use to Judge us on the Judgment Day. We keep them if we allow the Spirit of Christ to write them with indelible ink upon our hearts of flesh so that we may walk in the Spirit so as not to fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Are you talking of the other elements of the 10 commandments?

OLAADEGBU: Amen. The bolded in the quote below is just as pertinent as others.

You're absolutely right. Refusing to make provision for rest will not count against a Christian's eternal destination but his body will suffer the consequences.

OLAADEGBU: Words of Comfort: Keeping the Sabbath.
Scripture makes it clear that no one can be justified (made right with God) by keeping the Sabbath holy, or by keeping any other Commandment. All the Law does is bring the knowledge of sin to show us that we need a Savior. Jesus fulfilled the demands of the Law, which means we can be made right with God through faith in Him alone (see Eph. 2:8,9). Believers now serve in the spirit, not the letter of the law, and the principle behind the Sabbath is this: Just as God created for six days then rested on the seventh, man is to work for six days and rest on the seventh—to cease working. Those who trust in Christ’s finished work on the cross have ceased trying to be justified through their own efforts and instead find their rest in Him. (See Heb. 4:3,10.) That is why keeping the Sabbath is a non-issue for Christians when it comes to eternal salvation. It is simply a matter of conscience. Christians have incredible liberty—no one can tell us what we must eat or drink, or what days we must observe.
www.NeedGod.com

Wonderful write up indeed!! Particularly the bolded portions. Christ fulfilled all the righteous demands of the law and has given me the gift of his own righteousness.

Galatians 5:1 KJV
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Because

Romans 10:4 KJV
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

God bless the OP.

Image123: You do post dem fallacies effortlessly, don't you? i wasn't worried about being unwanted but you somehow slyly come up with that. Don't plead brother, i'm shy oh, i will contribute. i understand you've being desiring it greatly.

Thank God you're not worried about being unwanted on the thread, no adult should. However, you should be worried about trolling. So my dear image, please, please and please, make up your mind and contribute (to topics being discussed o) so the thread can flow.

Thank you.

Image123: Candor, even Ihe says he wasn't wanted here, i dunno what you're talking about.

Don't worry about being unwanted or not. I didn't tell you that you're not wanted (even if I did that, what powers do I have to enforce it?). I only plead that you contribute against the points they've raised instead of engaging in childish trolling.

Image123: Your friends considered Ihedinobi a troll. Most NL posters define a troll as anyone who disagrees with the OP so i don't mind the cliche. They were initially patronizing him with "sir, sir, sir" until they discovered that he wasn't for sale. Here are some.

Image, pls grow up. If the thoughts of your friends dictate your thoughts and opinions, you should know mine do not. I expressed purely personal opinions on the thread, Ihe and you and do not need anybody's help to do that.

Also try and get conversant with internet lingo. Your thoughts on who an internet troll is, is an illiterate view. So if according to you, "most NL posters define a troll as someone who disagrees with the OP", then you're in company with very uninformed people.

No one called Ihe a troll even if they disagreed with his approach and it was purely his decision to exit the thread for the sake of peace because no matter their feelings, he could've stayed on if he wanted. I find that a very dignifying thing to do. Since you so much care about Ihedinobi, I would have thought you would be keen to follow his peaceful step considering the fact you've not made any worthwhile contribution to the thread. Rather you've been trolling like you're doing now; trying to create a new meaning for an internet troll.

Attack any of the F's you wish bro and stop trolling.

Most tithe preachers hammer on Malachi 3:8-11as if that is the only portion of scripture that talks about tithing but worse is the fact that they make it look like that is the portion of scripture where God gave the tithe laws.

Prophet Malachi did not institute the tithe laws. He only wrote a reminder of the tithe laws God gave Moses for the children of Isreal and these laws can be found in the following scriptures

Lev 27:30-34

Num 18:21-32

Deut 14:22-29, Deut 26:12-15

A reminder was given when the Israelites came back from captivity by Nehemiah even before Malachi

Nehemiah 10:37-39

A honest seeker would endeavour to do a study of those listed scriptures and ponder on them.

Some truths we can comfortably accept based on our knowledge of the bible.

Jesus never collected tithe as he wasn't a levite, neither did he pay tithe as he was a carpenter and much later; an itinerant preacher. The bible records him as living on freewill donations. Did he break the law so doing?

The apostles never collected tithe because none was a levite working at the temple neither did they pay tithe because none was a farmer and even if they were, after their call by Christ, they became itinerant preachers like him and also lived off the bag of freewill donations and free meals from generous folks. Did they fail God so doing?

The early church never paid tithes to the apostles neither did the apostles demand tithes from anybody. Folks who had gave willingly and freely to a common fund and it was used strictly to cater for the needs of those in need: they had all things common. Are they sinners for not tithing?

When Paul came on the scene, he continued the same process of collecting freewill donations from Christians that had to succour those that didn't have. It was freewill with no stipulated percentages. Did the gentile church sin by not paying tithes to Paul?

The Jewish temple was destroyed in 70AD when general Titus overran Jerusalem hence preventing the Jews, for whom tithe laws were instituted from observing it till this day.

When then did tithing enter the picture as a cardinal christian doctrine? Catholic history has it that tithing for the Christian church was first mooted at a council in 585AD before becoming canon law in 787AD: over 700 years after the birth of the church and even then, it remained strictly farm and animal produce according to the dictates of the Mosaic law setting it up. Does it mean all the Christians that lived in that era including the apostles are doomed to eternal damnation because they didn't tithe? (If some prominent tithe pastors are to be believed).

What do tithe promoters know today that the early Christians didn't? Consider also that the catholic church that imposed it on Christians have even retraced their steps and now advocate freewill giving.

Image123: ALL your questions have being answered Candor. Perhaps you were not paying attention or you refused to see them. Please do post your questions again, i'd like to incorporate them with the other ones i'm considering, thanks. Also since you say my long post was devoid of truth, please point out at least three lies there.

No my friend. You and I have a long history on tithe discussions and the threads are there for folks to see. We had a 58 day discussion on this same issue some months ago. Believe it when I say I'm not interested in convincing you to change your position because most likely, you won't. You can also conclude same about me and you won't be wrong. You can see then that a discussion on tithe between you and I will be an exercise in futility. What will we talk about that we've not talked about before?

That said, there are a lot of questions that tithe promoters can't answer honestly but I believe honest seekers of truth will ponder and wish to find answers to them. My resolve henceforth then is to show up with some of these questions in any thread where I see the progenitors trying to pull the wool over the eyes of brethren who have not being able to study their bibles properly. I'll post some of those questions shortly.

Cheers bro

Image123: The likes of Goshen, Drumb, Candor etc avoided that my long post up there like a plague. Before that, they were all over me like flies until i took some time and space to talk. They'll come in future some pages away or some other thread asking what they should learn here and keep to memory, and blame me for not being interested in the charade. So predictable they leave no room for the precious gift of prophecy.

Haba!! Bro image, your long post lacked any substance. Full of words but empty on truth. It answered no question.....as usual but don't worry. I won't blame you again for not being interested. You have every right not to be.

However whenever you develop interest again, those unanswered questions will be waiting.

Cheers bro.

The idea of a rally of such magnitude in abuja at this time is totally unwise. How were they going to ensure they frisk a million people to check for suicide belts before commencement?

Thank God they reengaged their thinking faculty otherwise a disaster of unimaginable proportions might have ooccurred.

I hope this thread makes front page so naira landers can know and stand up to any overzealous road safety personnel that might want to take advantage of ignorance.

Image123: Did i mention any big deal about pointing out lies? Contrary to your imagination, i'm not here to see if i can point out lies. You're not the only one that considers me and other dissenting view as trolls on this thread, i told Anony that already. i don't recall condemning this thread of being unworthy of my time, not the truth but you're not far anyway. i understand you're itching to hear me speak on tithes, you saved this for f8. Where were you since na. Don't worry, i'll consider you people's desires.

My dear, not all dissenting views translate to trolling. Ihedinobi was here and made dissenting but valid contributions. I don't consider him a troll. You however are the definition of a troll. All you've been doing since the start of the thread is throw snide remarks here and there without saying anything worthwhile all in a bid to push the discussants off course.

I'm not itching to hear you speak on tithes my bro. There's nothing you want to say that you've not said in the last six years and they all bother on deceit and manipulation of scriptures. If you come up with your epistles again, my questions you're not 'interested' in will welcome you. You ask where I was all this while and my reply is that I've been around reading the thread and ignoring your antics until now.

If you have anything to say, go ahead and say it pls. Nobody will flog you. If all you have are the cheap shots you've been throwing, pls do us all a favour and take a chill pill. Na beg I dey beg.

Image123: errmmm meaning they are the inspired writings of the Holy Spirit, not the British bulldog spirit.
i'd be spoiling the party if i pointed out the lieS. You don't really want that do you?

Haba!! Image?? What is so big about pointing out the lies? What are you doing on this thread if not to try and see if you can point out any lies you can find? You've tried to point out 'lies' in previous points so what is stopping you from doing same to F8? Or could the real truth be that even with your magnifying glasses and excellent scriptural knowledge, you can't find any lie to point out? Or you're suddenly not interested....as usual??

My bro, you've trolled this thread enough. If you have anything worthwhile to say, pls go right ahead. No one can stop you. If not, hold your peace and stop being petulant. This is a plea.

They beg you to talk, you claim disinterest. They ask you to keep quiet, you start trolling. Is there something you're scared of that is hidden to all? Why not share it?

You've condemned this thread as unworthy of your time so what are you still doing on it? Be man enough to stick to your resolve my friend.

DrummaBoy: I am not familiar with this monickers. Pls can I have one or two people confirm they are all professing Christians so I can update the list.

Yeah.....they all profess Christianity

ihedinobi2: You make a lot of sense, bro. I think that the problem is not corporal or non-corporal punishment, it is psychological and intellectual non-involvement or disengagement. We don't think enough these days or take the time to adequately sympathise with our kids to see how to mold their psychologies.

That is why there are those who do nothing but corporal and those who do no corporal at all. In the end we get either hardened criminals or mousy people or entitled pompous foöls running wild on earth.

With my niece I have seen that putting her off TV (which she has a big love for can get her attention). That doesn't mean that that will always work. Sometimes you'll need to spank, sometimes you'll need to scold. The important thing is that the lesson must be consistent. If they do not associate the behavior you're correcting with some form of pain or deprivation, you perpetuate that behavior in them.

The bottomline is that we are mirroring real life realities and morals for them.

Dear bro. I agree jare. Parents these days don't take time to understand their children at all. Every child is unique and what works for one might not work for the other. A lot of psychological and social factors to consider in this day and age.

In our days, TV time for every body was 4pm to 11pm max (if you no like am, sue NTA or buy video player). Today its 48 hours a day (DSTV 24 hrs, Strong decoder 24 hrs) streaming contents that remake, remix and remodel the minds and make up (psychological and social) of our kids and I'm not even going to mention the internet, smart phones and their fanciful apps etc.

For those who are wise, the job of parenting and the time needed are more demanding now than before but unfortunately, our time has been colonised by our successful careers and the desire and 'need' to keep up with the speed of an ever evolving world. If we are not careful, most of us risk ending up with a lot of machinery, gadgets, toys etc and a broken heart from parenting failure.

The solution hence isn't brandishing the cane every time but getting close enough to know what goes on in that child's head and heart. That process should start from as early in their life as possible though I believe its never too late for those who haven't started (as if they have a choice?).

Cane might do it for Joe while withdrawal of privileges will do it for John. Know thy child first, then whatever method of discipline shall be added by you.

Cheers bro

Hmmm. Deep and touching.

May God give us grace to place premium on what is truly valuable and to remember that the things that matter most in life are not necessarily tangible material things.

God bless you OP.

Image123: Stop overreacting. i didn't attack the fellow personally, but made a general statement. The love of money has caused many problems. This is a plain scriptural truth that you don't have to twist sentimentally.

OK. I won't contest this.

I'm glad you didn't set out to attack her personally. Sure the love of money has caused many problems and its still causing them as we speak e.g 'respectable' men lying, twisting scriptures and endangering their eternal destiny because of money collection via tithes. Truly the love of money has caused many problems.

Apologies for overreacting.

Image123: Rather the love of money has caused many problems.

You must know her very personally to conclude as above. She expresses an opinion and you attack her character.

Get down from that high horse pls.

Mark 8:36 KJV
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Beware covetousness.

God bless you

Image123: @trustman
Your points are recycled and not really needed to ponder on. They add nothing to me. Here is the sure Word of God of value which i'd rather ponder on.

Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

God has spoken to us by His Son, and His Son said tithes ought to be done. i'd ponder on that. i hope you or any of the suspects don't reply, as i'm not interested in running in circles. i know you all's next line of argument.

See another thing you forgot to remind us God told 'us' through his son in that same chapter you quoted. Particularly the portion in bold

Matthew 23:1-3 KJV
Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, [2] Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: [3] All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

The scribes and pharisees have enumerated 613 things the people Christ was talking to in that chapter must do. This is just a reminder as I'm sure you omitted this part 'inadvertently'

driand: when I hear bomb blasts these days and the way people die in the north, I flash back to the stories of the 1966 pogroms, and I wonder if the northerners really deserve pity....

My bro, do you know it isn't only northerners that die in these bomb blasts?

How many northern Muslims do you imagine died at the church blast on Sunday?

Tgirl4real: I read it very well, but I don't think it should stop my right to nominate who I wish. @ least my nomination helped u say hello.

How can 2 of my fav ppl in this section not present. The first is no longer a professing Christian. The second is not available, now you.

Anyways, if you insist. Just that I haven't been following people much. Will think of someone$

@the bolded, yes o my sister. It did

Cheers