₦airaland Forum

mbaemeka: I know your IQ is barely above 99. Go and read one of the last 3 posts you directed at me and see where you asked me if "someone could lose their salvation because of sin". Then understand my response to you.

Its obvious your own IQ is too minute and insignificant to register on any scale. That wasn't where it started. Try checking your first statement on Barnabas.

I also hope you're keeping a catalogue of the 'ad hominems' you generously dished out on this thread? So that when you, who and what you represent are repaid in full measure, pressed down etc you'll not start complaining?

While at it don't run away from the lies you told about Paul addressing himself as a "wretched man". That post is still on this thread.

Bring up the post where I said that so we can thrash it. I've dealt with more intelligent and complex people. I don't enter a discussion I'm I'll prepared for. If you have nothing to say, keep quiet. That's what sensible adults do.

It's difficult responding to you in detail because when you are boxed-in you raise more issues that may require one to belabor already established truths.

Lazy bones. No wonder you're desperately searching for money everywhere. Why won't comprehension be difficult for you?

mbaemeka: All these words yet you could not make an iota of a point. I am glad that some of your 'likers' are seeing beyond this wanton display of gross ignorance concerning simply comprehension of either English or the bible.

It is on record here that I said "even if I do not agree with all Kumuyi's teachings I still esteem him very highly as a MOG because of his work".

That statement makes all your gibberish null and void. I don't agree with all Oyedepo's teachings, TB Joshua's, Bill Winston's etc. . . even Kenneth E Hagin's (of blessed memory) but I esteem all of them very highly in love. That's why I laugh when you say things like WOFers etc. I know it's as a result of sheer ignorance on your part.

BTW another scripture to cause the demons to manifest again:

The glory God gave Jesus on earth I already have (John 17:22).

"GREATER is he that is IN me than he that is the world"

No matter how many times you scream "I admire kumuyi....", its clear that you're simply exercising your mouth and utilising your right to free speech. You're free to believe it and anyone else is free to believe you, I don't or would you deny me my right to disbelieve you?

The same who said this

John 17:22 KJV
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one

Also said this

John 16:33 KJV
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

There's balance in scripture if you choose to find it but of course, Paul was asked to suffer and pass through tribulation. You were only signed up for the rosy part.

Keep god-ding away

Gombs: Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves (Jude 1:8-10) .

There’s a remarkable lesson for us to learn from the attitude of Michael the archangel, when he disputed with Satan over the body of Moses. Michael, with all his power and glory, couldn’t dare bring an accusation against Satan, an evil personality. This was because he recognized that Satan had Adamic authority, which is higher than angelic authority. Adam lost his authority to Satan when he ate of the fruit God had instructed him not to.

As a result, Michael could only rebuke Satan in the Name of the Lord, a higher authority. This is very instructive on how we’re to relate to spiritual authority as God’s children. You should never criticize, dishonor or speak against those whom the Lord has placed in positions of authority. That’s the way I’ve lived; I don't say things against God’s people, especially ministers of the Gospel, because they carry the authority of God.

1 Thessalonians 5:12 says, “And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you.” Some people in the church have authority over you in the Lord, and they must be honoured as such.

Sadly, there’re some in the Church who believe they’re smarter than their pastors, and are always wanting to “advise” or instruct them on how to run the affairs of the church. This is wrong. You must remain submitted to spiritual authority in order to walk in the power of the Spirit, and fulfill the call of God on your life.

You've spoken well bro. However I wish to know

1. Can we accuse, abuse and insult Satan today? If no, are we sinning when we sing songs like "Satan don fall for gutter o, march am march am"? What about our pastors who always insult, disparage and abuse Satan anytime they wish to demonstrate to us how really small, insignificant, stu.pid, for.lish, criminal, crooked and plainly slowpoke.ic Satan really is? Are they threading on dangerous ground?

2. Is my pastor still covered by this immunity when he's a replica of Rev King, Rev Jim Jones, pastors at the movement for restoration of the ten commandments (uganda) or Rev Moon (south Korea)?

I'm not happy sometimes to tell it as it is concerning pastors but how would I feel if I could have warned Ann (the girl Rev King killed) and the world about him but chose to keep quiet? How would I feel if I could have warned the 900+ should that perished at Guyana due to Rev Jim Jones paranoia simply because I don't want to insult dignities? How would I feel if I could have stopped the pastors at Movement for the restoration of the ten commandments before they bombed and shot almost a 1000 church members to death, yet I didn't because I don't want to bring ridicule to the name of God?

I wish the atrocities in the name of Christ will just go away, but Gombs, in all honesty how do you think Christians can prevent the next demon from climbing a pulpit?

Do you advice I just look away?

nannymcphee: thanks for this, but what has become of the lutheran movement? are all their teaching correct based on Gods word?

cant someone else also step up to insult them based on their wrong doctrines?

we know in parts, we should try to correct in love and most importantly pray for the erring ones be it pastor or laymen

God bless you for this truth. This is the reason I've NEVER joined a thread opened to bash the RCC. Every denomination including those claiming they've never said anything bad about RCC have horrible skeletons in their closets. The only difference is that mankind has become more civilised otherwise, the wars that took place during the Reformation and subsequent years would have been child's play compared to the wars we would have had today. Thank God we now have courts and denominations no longer control government.

When people ask me today which church I attend, I tell them I belong to the body of Christ. When they press and ask where its located, I tell them heaven. I fellowship in any place God directs me but I place more premium on bible study groups and fellowship today. Anywhere 2 or three are gathered in Jesus name, Christ assured he'll be there, I'm sure even if its in a toilet.

I think there's something about starting a new 'church' that turns the founders into monsters in a short time that leaves me in no doubt that new testament Christianity is against denominationalism. God seeks those who will worship him in spirit and in truth and that picture gets clearer when you start digging into the core of any denominational group you find yourself. You will always find rottenness every time.

If my friends on NL decides to open a church, he can be sure I won't attend. If you say a bible study group where we can study, fellowship and challenge our positions on bible doctrine, then count me in.

The tragedy of Pentecostal christianity is the one man and his family show going on where a dictator seats above everyone else like a king who cannot and must not be challenged. The RCC is even better in this respect. At least its not hereditary unlike the case now that G.O dies and wife or son take over like its a kingdom.

nannymcphee: when martin luther went against the catholic church pointing out the 75 thesis, was that how he insulted the leaders of the day, where is the lutheran movement today and in how many areas have they also missed it or are you telling me, the lutheran movement has all of its doctrine correct

I was a roman catholic and i left there 8years ago, i know the catholic church has a lot of wrong doctrine but never for once have i called the pope or the priest false teacher even though alot of its teachings are wrong

Now you people have arrived, you know who has the anointing and who doesnt have the anointing, calling pastors name, men and women you didnt call, if a pastor is erring, isnt it your duty as a christian to pray for that one? with all the the ranting on the media on the COZA scandal, what came out of it? did the pastor drop dead? did the church growth suffer? God has a way of dealing with his own

cant you show the truth without insults and calling of names?

Dont you know the atrocities the church committed during the dark ages with and in the name of God, isnt the church still standing today with alot of reformation?

we know your type, you claim to correct an error, you start up ur own church or house fellowship or whatever you choose to call it, years later you go into oblivion or deep into some many errors

continue you hear, continue

Actually while this is not an attempt to glorify abuse (its just inevitable that every action bears its real names), it's necessary to correct your impression about Martin Luther. The great reformer insulted the popes and other RCC leaders more than whatever abuse they receive now. See examples

"Great thieves go Scott-free, as the Pope and his crew."

"False preachers are worse than deflowerers of virgins."

"The Pope is a mere tormentor of conscience. The assembly of his greased and religious crew in praying was altogether like the croaking of frogs, which edified nothing at all."

"Since then your sere Majesty and your Lordships seek a simple answer, I will give it in this manner, neither horned nor toothed. Unless I am convinced by the testimony of the Scriptures or by clear reason (for I do not trust either in the pope or in councils alone, since it is well known that they have often erred and contradicted themselves), I am bound by the Scriptures I have quoted and my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not recant anything, since it is neither safe nor right to go against conscience. May God help me. Amen."

(Reply to the Diet of Worms, April 18, 1521)

You can see more at
http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/29874.Martin_Luther?page=4

There is no way you won't ruffle feathers or exchange words whenever you try to challenge entrenched doctrines because humans are wired to resist change and truth and would do so violently. Not all change is good however which is why in my early posts to you, I encouraged you to do a diligent study alongside and judging from the website on church deception which you posted, its very obvious you're taking it seriously. No one has it all but there are fundamental errors that hit at the foundation of the christian faith e.g "that Christians are gods and have the same faith and creative ability as God" which should give us concern.

Every error no matter how 'little' is bad and every doctrine must be rechecked in the light of scripture.

Cheers

mbaemeka: MENSA have nothing on me and I have a certificate to prove it! But the Holy Spirit has made wise and I prefer his testimony.

If you had any memory whatsoever you would have remembered the thread on "Once saved always saved" started by Alexleo in which I had to go head-on with Mrs 'Word for Today' and our 'Resident Prophet' (On fire for God Christians BTW). Which makes your question on "sin and losing salvation" surfeit to this discourse and unworthy of someone like me.

Dull manner you said? Nannymcphee please take note.

Romans 7 A wise man said Paul called himself wretched. vv24. This same wise man kept yapping off and on about reading those verses in Proverbs contextually. He was failing at theological gymnastics so he was employing high-falutin cants to hide this fiasco. Some of his 'trusted' ilk even endorsed the write-up. LOL

Paul stated who he was addressing the Chapter to in vv1- Those under the law. In vv9 he explains how he was once alive without the law but when the law came sin revived and he died. Question- Paul died? He repeats himself again saying that sin took advantage of the law and slew him.vv11 Paul then concludes he is carnal and sold to sin vv14 and overly obedient to sin against what the law says vv15. Then he says sin and evil dwell in him vv20 &vv21. He says his Spirit really wants to obey the law of God but his members are acting otherwise (hence he is carnal) vv22&23.That's why he asked that question- "Who will save Him from that wretched man that he is"?vv24 Then he concludes- Jesus Christvv25.

So the Wise man above who doesn't reply posts in a dull manner should explain to Nannymcphee how Paul called himself a wretched man. While he is at it he should show us how Paul is a carnal man; slave to sin; under the law; having evil and sin dwelling in him etc. Because that is the man Paul said is wretched.

Now will Paul who we know is not carnal; sold to sin; under the law etc. call himself "wretched" after Christ has saved him? Hell No. Paul was only describing his life while he was still under the law. He is describing that life as wretched and concluding that only Christ could save him.

Now this is the superior knowledge, intelligent replies and exposes they have been referring to. And trust me I can do exactly this to all the nonsense he was referring to as truth. Telling God's children that their words do not matter when just reading the verses and seeing how replete the notion had been all through scripture one would have to be a compulsive liar to teach or endorse otherwise.

Candour, like I said before you overestimate your understanding of a lot of things and even when you are spotted out pride won't let you concede and learn.

I am getting tired of doing this to the foundations you once held unto for years.

Thank me later (Our resident Hip Hop head can tell you where I got that from )

You're getting desperate and its showing. See my post which you quoted

Candour: I leave IQ measurements to you. That's if you know what it is and how it's measured. With the dull manner you explain and reply, its very obvious that ability is way above your league.

If you have any intelligence, Go back to the trail of pur exchanges so you remember what got us to this point.

Cheers

How does that relate to the 'plenty words full of fury, bile, lies while signifying nothing' you posted up there?

Its a weak, confused and lost man that introduces red herrings into discussions to deflect from the matter at hand.

If you can, try and keep up with the trail of discussion.

mbaemeka: - Do you give tithes? Pastor Kumuyi teaches on tithes
- Do you speak evil about dignitaries? Pastor Kumuyi teaches against it
- Do you tell lies as a habit? Pastor Kumuyi teaches against it
- Do you believe in the efficacy of the spoken word of God? Pastor Kumuyi believes in the efficacy of the spoken word
- Don't you believe the name of Jesus can be used by false prophets? Pastor Kumuyi teaches against it
- Don't you bear false witness? etc...

Yet you would have us believe that you believe him in totality whilst the rest of us use him as a smokescreen meanwhile you rebelled, left this tutelage, ran to Oyedepo because you were looking for financial prosperity, ( you didn't prosper obviously) and then you continued your vagrant travails until you found yourself in whatever church you are in ATM (that is greatly unfortunate to have you) because you would soon rebel and run elsewhere like the mad man of Gadara finding no resting place.

You'll never be caught dead in a deeper life tent listening to kumuyi, so why the desperation to leverage on him now? Your beliefs are totally opposite to that of DLBC so why latch unto them for support? Its obvious you know deep down that your heroes lack integrity so you look for one that still has a good standing to hide under.

Kumuyi doesn't preach that Christians are gods and that sets you on mad rants. He doesn't encourage greed and that angers you because your wild obsession with money by rushing "everywhere the money is...." has robbed you of peace, your soul and left you on edge as you're still expecting to find it. He preaches against greedy 'pastors' like yours and that shows you guys as the crooks you are. Any honest person who observes kumuyi will know your heroes are very far from the bible.

Kumuyi also preaches honesty and that is why he never hid the fact that his wife was sick neither did he deny the cause of her death when she died during an easter retreat. If it were to be you guys, you'll lie that she sat in her chair and 'decided' to die.

I'm glad i attended LFC as it gave me an insider view of happenings there. I was also an attendee at some CEC programmes and infact handled some financial transactions of your church and pastor omorogieva and his wife Pauline. It also enabled me to see you guys for what you really are: greedy money grabbing lot. Also, if it will interest you, I attended a C & S programme back in June. Oya go ahead and use that one too to slander me.

Below is one of my earliest posts on NL. Character and principles never change even if locations do. My perception of Kumuyi and DLBC is always reinforced whenever I see folks like you.

Candour: I dont think OLADEEGBU sees it in the same way properity teachers see it.you can see he and Joagbaje being diametrically opposed on the PROSPERITY GOSPEL thread he opened. I believe he just cares about christians funding legitimate church programs which is not a bad idea.since i started attending Deeperlife Dec retreat in 1986 as a child,i have always been amazed at how a church can feed thousands of people with three square meals for 5-7 days consecutively without asking for RETREAT OFFERING.Dec 2012 was no exception and i remember my younger brother whom i went with saying 'bros,i must chop this rice wey dey fire so' because we packed close to the kitchen(Rumuodara camp ground) and you couldn't ignore the sweet aroma of the food which indicated it must be of high quality.there was still no call for retreat ofeering.Infact offering was actually taken only once throughout the retreat and it was on a sunday.

So pls dont tar him with the same brush.the argument is that we believe christians are no longer bound by the 10% law of Moses but are at liberty now to give something or not to give anything as their spirit leads them.this is my understanding of GRACE and i've asked him to explain matthew 23:23 he quoted earlier.

https://www.nairaland.com/1189741/tithes-offerings/7#14334767

I hold kumuyi in high esteem and don't pretend about him like you're doing now.

People like kumuyi and DLBC are the reason I know you and your heroes are simply greedy people who are after getting as much money as they can. If all christian groups treat and handle money the same way they do, there will be less criminality in Christianity.

I find it extremely risible that someone who would gleefully call satan "god of this world" will in the next breath accuse someone else of making "satanic claims of godhood". The only person who made a satanic claim of godhood is you.

I saw the word of God spoken about me and I consented and accepted it in my life and you are offended? Why? It is annoying the demons who counsel you? They preferred their master to be god over you and your ilk?

Well, there is another breed of Christians who know better than that. These ones are part-takers of the Divine nature; Kings and priests unto God. That is why he is called King of kings, Lord of lords and our High Priest (because obviously we are the priests).

Another scripture to cause the demons speaking through you to shake in awe (if you cast out demons you would know how they talk. Bold Christians annoy them):


Ephesians 1:19-23King James Version (KJV)

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, ^{not only in this world}, but also in that which is to come:

22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

God's exceeding mighty power is directed towards US who BELIEVE. It is the same power that raised Jesus from the dead and has set him above ALL principalities, power, might, dominion and EVERY name that is named NOT only IN THIS WORLD but in the one which is to come and has put all things under his feet and made him the head over all things to benefit the church- his body. And I am a member of his body; flesh and bones. And I am already seated with him now (Ephesians 2:6)

How can I meditate on this long enough and still feel I am subject to disease and what not when I am already seated far above it all?

Well, they know not, neither will they understand it. . .they walk on in darkness.

Paul and other apostles obviously didn't read the same memo neither did you hear the same spirit. Once again, see what Paul did when vain and confused souls like you called him a god

Acts 14:14-15 KJV
Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of , they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, [15] And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

In fact the thought of them being called gods was so abhorrent that the bible records that 'they cried out'

The whole world is in wickedness according to the bible but we are of God.

1 John 5:19 KJV
And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

And we know the god who is always in charge of the dark and wicked realm

2 Corinthians 4:4 KJV
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

The world is under the control of the devil but thankfully, God has marked us as his own and made a down payment with his spirit (Eph 1:13-14). We are not of the world but our body which is only a tabernacle for the real us is earthly and subject to the corruption in the world.

2 Corinthians 5:1-6 KJV
For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. [2] For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: [3] If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. [4] For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. [5] Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. [6] Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

I can't wait to have that body so I groan to have it just like Paul in the scripture above. Until the ressurection which is at the second coming of Christ, then you're simply inside corruptible mass of flesh

1 Corinthians 15:53-54 KJV
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. [54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

As long as you'll suffer death if Christ tarries, then your body will and can be afflicted with corruption.

Keep 'manifesting' your counterfeit 'godhood' in that obscure corner of NL where you're.

mbaemeka: Candour,

Calm down with the lies faa..Joses whose name was changed to Barnabas because of his LARGE SEED became a Pastor and Prophet.

If your IQ is above 100 please explain the statement above

- does it mean his large seed made him a pastor and a prophet?
- or that his name was changed to Barnabas because of his seed?
- or that his name was changed to Barnabas because of his seed and he later became a Pastor and Prophet.

Please, please, read well.

Barnabas means Son of CONSOLATION. He was renowned amongst the early church for that (the bible says exactly so). I explained it well and only one who is dull of hearing or understanding will let the truth fly over him.

I leave IQ measurements to you. That's if you know what it means and how its measured. With the dull manner you explain and reply, its very obvious that ability is way above your league.

If you have the intelligence, Go back to the trail of our exchanges so you remember what got us to this point.

Cheers

mbaemeka: If he knew he wouldn't assure us health why heal the many that he did and why take upon himself our sicknesses and diseases when he died on the cross? Your reasoning of God is convoluted to say the least...and tiring.

Why did epaphroditus fall sick? Did the assurance of health not cover him?

Why did faith oyedepo spend weeks with the best medical care in Nigeria and UK? Did the 'I cannot be sick anointing fail her'?

Why did Kathryn khulman, a.a Allen, oral Roberts, Paul crouch etc suffer serious ailments, did thir faith fail?

As per my health: I dwell in health and I always will!!

Thank God you enjoy what I enjoy too. Halleluyah.

Stop conflating all teachings. Learn to spot the difference between faith and providence.

so your faith is powerless against providence? Are you finding it difficult to deride the Christians in Mosul, borno and yobe for their 'faithlessness'? After all its only people like them and Paul that suffer such indignities?

I am done teaching for today. But God has saved us from sin why do you still fall into occasional sin? That's the same reason Christians still fall in and out of sicknesses even though Jesus us healed us of them all over 2000 years ago. They know not, neither will they understand, they walk on in darkness. . .hence, they die like mere men and fall like one of the princes.

Have you ever sinned since the day you became born again? Have you ever done something untoward since that day? If I sin today, does it nullify my salvation?

Is that the reason Kathryn khulman, oral Roberts, a.a Allen, faith oyedepo, Paul crouch etc all suffer sickness? Were they walking in darkness too?

Jude:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time. . .
19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

If You have ever stretched forth your hand to command a disease to leave in the Name of Jesus you would not be able to say some things that you say. But we know why.

God did a miracle in my household on the first of this month. I see miracles and I know God still does miracles. However, I refuse to fall for stage managed 'miracles' for which your church is known.

Ignorant men call fraud, those things that they tried themselves to do but it didn't work. Faith works by LOVE (Gal 5:6). If you are passionate about sick people and have love for them- the love of God. You will use the name of Jesus and watch the ailment run off the person.

Can you extend this 'love' to the Ebola patients suffering in Lagos right now? You're the 'god' here you know? Show love to those people pls.

Mary Magdalene should have given her money to the poor; she should not have wasted it on Jesus who could have called money from a Fish's mouth.

She did for Jesus because he was with her physically. See those to receive on Jesus behalf today in his absence in matt 25:35-45. That is why the early Christians did what they did in acts 2&4.

See Jesus telling a man

Matthew 19:21 KJV
Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Mark 10:21 KJV
Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

See zacheaus doing something similar and Jesus approving

Luke 19:8-9 KJV
And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold. [9] And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

Can you point to one instance where Christ asked somebody to take anything to the temple?

You read a comment and didn't understand it then you generalized sweepingly as usual. If you care to know his father, grand father and great grand father were Pastors and the church they Pastored in is still very much in Nigeria. All these were happening while you and your clan were still doing ablutions, clubbing and killing for virgins in Utopia.

Who Pastored Paul?

Kai!! The guy has taken it personal o. Even bringing clans into it? Because i called your g.o what you called me?? What were your own clan doing at this period? My clan was a clan of diviners not those who kill for virgins. What were yours into? Were they pastors too?

I can see how very much it is in your mind. Keep following your father that was cast down from heaven by attempting to strike the Shepherd so that the sheep will be scattered. Spirits are cheering you- evil ones.

You called yourself the god of this world. See what the god of this world does to humanity

2 Corinthians 4:4 KJV
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Stop your satanic claims of godhood.

Any spiritual leader is a a spiritual leader and therefor a dignitary even Imams and Shiites. Don't speak evil of them instead if you see any wrongdoings condoned or executed by them go on your knees in prayerful intersession. What you and your ilk cannot do by calling them names from now till eternity that prayer of intercession can.

But how would you know when you have arrogated (albeit ignominiously) all truth to yourself?

Hope you've not insulted shekau today? Hope you never said any unkind word about Osama bin laden?

Meanwhile your heroes have been cursing and abusing these 'spiritual leaders' since forever. Pls extend this glorious advice to them too.

I don't follow any Pastor to his house to know he is anointed. I simply take him for his words and respect him accordingly after all, love believes all. . .If he was lying God will expose him the way he knows how to do best my duty is to pray for him. I don't agree with all the teachings of Pastor Kumuyi for example, but I know he is a MOG whom God has used so mightily to instruct the saints in holiness, power and prosperity amongst other things. I give him his due respect by esteeming him very highly in love because of his work.

Of course you brought kumuyi into the mix as a smokescreen. You're part of those who ridicule him and his followers for their lifestyle but come here to feign admiration and respect.

You and your mog call yourselves gods, so why waste prayer on you? Can a human being pray for a god? What does a 'god' need prayers for? gods are meant to be prayed to, not be prayed for. When they become humans again, we can pray for them.

I am a joint-heir with Christ!! I am a son of God now!! Not when I get to heaven but right now.

Romans 8:17-18 KJV
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him , that we may be also glorified together. [18] For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Glory SHALL be revealed in us. 'Shall' there is a time word, when will this 'shall' be? Or when did it start? Did Paul miss its start because he mentioned going through sufferings in the present clearly in that scripture?

Manchester United are drawing I need to celebrate it. Bye.

Enjoy.

mbaemeka: I have been avoiding to make a long post but I might need to just to show you how uninformed you are of the scriptures.

First things first- (Psalms 82) God said ye are gods and all of you are children of the most high vv6. But you have judged unjustly and accepted the ideas of wicked men vv1. You have not defended the poor and needy; you have not helped the afflicted vv3 and 4. because you don't know anything neither will you take your time to understand instead you walk on in darkness vv5. That's why Candour and his people die like mere men and fall like one of the princes vv7.

Jesus said I and My Father are one and it offended the Jews because they knew the essence of that statement- (John 10)He was saying he was God vv33. and they understood that declaration to be blasphemous so they sought to stone him vv33a. Then Jesus quoted the Psalms 82 to them showing that God himself had at one time called his people gods simply because they received his word vv35 and the scriptures can not be broken; so why will it now be blasphemous for him who God sent to also make a similar claim vv36.

Then Candour and his ignorant ilk sought to kill him.

Christ could make that statement because he was who he was. You are nothing but a lump of clay. Have you seen this scripture below at anytime?

Exodus 22:28 KJV
Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people.

Who are the gods God asked Isreal not to revile? Do you realise this is the same scripture Paul quoted in acts 23:5? Could God have been asking Isreal not to insult gods like Baal, molech, ashteroth etc? Of course not. The gods there referred to those who sat in authority and judgement over isreal. This is the preamble to the whole psalms chapter 82. See verse 1

Psalm 82:1 KJV
God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

We see God questioning the gods(judges in Isreal) and accusing them of dereliction of duty and miscarriage of justice. Its so clear in the subsequent verses that its a miracle how you miss it

Psalm 82:2-4 KJV
How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. [3] Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. [4] Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

How can you miss the fact that he was talking to the judges who had authority in Israel? Those saddled with responsibility to dispense justice?

Its so wonderful that Paul the apostle didn't get this evil 'wisdom' of being a god. He would never have remained the humble man he was. God be praised that none of the apostles or early Christians had this satanic 'revelation', they would have been decreeing death to all their enemies and oppressors. See what Paul did when some confused people called him a 'god'; the appellation you so madly crave

Acts 14:14-15 KJV
Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of , they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, [15] And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

The apostle denied godhood and called himself a man like the pagan Greeks. I'll stand with him on this.

I am not Elohim- the creator God. I am not god over God. I am god over the world and it's system. I am god over sickness, disease, poverty, ruin, lack, ignorance etc. by the authority that God gave me. Do you want to know why this truth is above your ability to comprehend?


Matthew 13:14-15King James Version (KJV)

14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

...and the alas the scriptures cannot be broken!

@the bolded, except you're the manifestation of the devil himself, you're not near being the god of this world. See the scripture below

2 Corinthians 4:4 KJV
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Christ will soon come and we will have this realm to ourselves and be in full control. Don't be in a hurry. If you're not sick today, thank God for you. Most of those you learnt this godhood nonsense from died from sickness and diseases even though some of them tried to hide it. When you see them in the regeneration, I'm sure they'll humbly tell you they believed wrong.

I said Paul said- "I know how to abase and I know how to abound" then I concluded that I too know how to go hungry and how to abound. Please show me where I said Paul never suffered hunger. I will wait.

As per what you refer to as "being honest" Let God be true and every man a liar.

You lie. You said you could decide to be hungry because of fasting trying to explain away paul's declaration of suffering hunger but the man knew there was a difference between not eating because of fasting and not eating because you lack food. The later is known as hunger and he clearly declared he suffered it.

Show us where I said "I would have given up on Christianity a long time ago if I was suffering" or remain a compulsive liar forever. Why am I surprised? You told blatant lies about a well-respected MOG on this thread why should we put that penchant away from you as regards me?

What did you mean by the below?

mbaemeka: God told Paul he was to suffer for the gospel. God didn't tell mbaemeka that he was to suffer for the gospel. God told me to prosper for the gospel. Amen

If you suffer all Paul suffered, will you remain a christian? If you suffer what Christians in Mosul, borno and yobe are grappling with, will you remain a christian?

For what it's worth you are still a nonentity- an ignorant one at that. BTW that book of James 4 you quoted had this to say in vv11- Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law interestingly he spoke about Proud people who refuse to humble themselves before God or his word vv10(for they are the same). So we can deduce that the proud "brethren" in vv10 ends up speaking evil of another brethren vv11. That same egocentric brethren is the one who boasts that they made it in life without God's help seeing that making it in life is available to every Joe.

It is that brethren's life that will vanish away vv14.

You, your mog and I are equally nonentities according to apostle Peter and James that is vapour and grass.

Also you're trying to twist what apostle james said there. see the James scripture again which is fully addressed to boastful people like you

James 4:13-16 KJV
Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain: [14] Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. [15] For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that. [16] But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil.

You claim to be a god and can decide whatever. James says such is boasting and that is evil. Learn to say "if the Lord wills" like I've advised you. In other words, respect the sovereignty of God. That is apostle James admonition not mine.

The body is not the real man- the Spirit is. I am sure all your nomadic travels across many churches didn't give you the chance to learn that. So Oral Roberts et al are not rotting in the grave: they are in heaven with Jesus.

BTW "If the Spirit of God that raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you. . . he will also vitalize; quicken; reinvigorate your MORTAL BODY" Romans 8:11. Learn to believe the scriptures and leave men and women of God who have achieved way more than you could ever given 10 lifetimes each of 100 years.

Thank God you now realise the body is not the real man. It will grow weak, sickly, rot and die because it belongs to the earth. My soul on the other hand is untouchable and God's spirit working in me.

Also, i'm not in a competition with your heroes. Every generation has its headliners. Like Adolf Hitler, like Gaddafi, like most of your heroes. Wish them well with their achievements. You should be the one bothered that no matter your wish and desperation to be a god, you'll never be heard of outside NL.

Chief Ignoramus, would you need another bible study class?

All the apostles and disciples brought all they had so that the needs of the members will be met and nobody lacked anything. (Acts 4:33/34/35). Then the Holy Spirit saw it fit to instruct Luke to give Joses a special mention by telling us he did same (vv 37) and the Holy Spirit never gives pleonastic information.

That same Joses became popular amongst the apostles because he had a name, Barnabas which means Son of Consolation vv36. They called him so because he was always known to be responsive and cheerful when a need arose in the church. Now this same Barnabas was described in Acts 11 as a good man; full of the spirit and of faith. It shows us that it takes the Spirit, Faith and good intentions for someone to bring his money to church so that needs can be met. Any average Candour cannot do it.

Later on when the disciples were raising funds to help the brethren in Judea following a famine the elders of the church agreed that Paul and Barnabas should be trusted with the responsibility- behold any man who can give his own money can be trusted with the monies of others.

This same Barnabas was later referred to as a Prophet and a Teacher Acts 13:1 and later an Apostle when he was sent with Paul to preach in Gentile regions etc. Hence, why I said you cannot separate the grace that abounds to a giver from the role he would play in the House of God. Your friend, that was sacked as a worker in his church was rightfully treated. If he cannot give in church, he should not be in a leadership position. Period. _{He will steal people's money and use it for his blog}

Some of The MOGs you insult are the biggest givers in their ministries. They lead well and as such they will be followed likewise. All rebels will make noise for a while and then vanish away!

No need to catch a fit. See what you said about Barnabas and his 'big seed'

mbaemeka: Joses whose name was changed to Barnabas because of his LARGE SEED became a pastor and a prophet

Where did you get it in the bible that he was named barnabas because of his large seed and the seed paved the way for him to become prophet and pastor?

Also can you tell us why the others who gave LARGE SEED like barnabas didn't get pastorates and apostolic anointing? Were their seeds not good enough

Oh, so we don't have up to 12 MOG in Nigeria? You think the things going on are as a result of so? You have a lot to learn about the things of God. Please meditate on this verse of scripture:


Proverbs 11:11King James Version (KJV)
11 By the blessing of the upright the city is exalted: but it is overthrown by the mouth of the wicked.

Nigeria is being restrained by the mouth's of wicked and unreasonable men who; speak evil of Dignitaries; of the country; of the citizens etc. These words do more harm than the weapons of Boko Haramists or the Ebola virus. That's why I laugh when Ignoramuses say the words we speak don't matter. Our words matter- use it to bless and lift people. Administer grace to your hearers and leave lies to the father of it- the Devil!

It is only wise to say at this juncture, that it would have been worse save for the prayers of intercession by these MOG and I am one of them glorrrrry!

Nigeria has thousands of mog but a vast majority are crooks and cradle snatchers. If we had 12 with Paul's anointing, integrity and compassion, this country will not be the way it is.

Calamities have not swallowed this country because of the saints who pray, not because of any special mog. Some of them have been issuing empty decrees against BH since inception, nothing has changed. True saints on the other hand have been praying and God has been answering.

A greedy man is satisfied with self. I am satisfied only when others have it too. You on the otherhand are a self-professed. . .

You're the one occupied with self. I'm rich, I'm a god, I'm a co-creator with God, im richer than you etc so we all know who the greedy and self centered man is.

There are different types of giving and for different purposes. Stop conflating all of them. The person who still gives to the Pastor, gives to the church, gives to the needy etc. and still meets his personal needs. You who gives to the needy alone (We wish) will only remain at that level. Grace abounds to a giver and he would always have all sufficiency to meet other needs not just his personal ones.

You attend a church that has a generator (I presume) have you asked how it is fueled? No, you would rather criticize and insult those that do- because the grace of God over their lives hurts the demons that advice you.

BTW If I start to announce the help that the church has ministered to people you would think we are running for government and the same lot will say they are boasting.

Pls leave the needy out of your boastings. You deride and disparage them anyway so why the pretence? Its only a demon inspired person that will be heartless enough to tell the needy that God will curse the little he has because he refuses to hand it over to a big man wearing suit and carrying a bible.

I know how the generator of my fellowship is fuelled because we that can contribute to it. Thank you.

Is it today you started boasting? Pls boast yourself away. No one is stopping you

The same spirit that spoke to Jannes and Jambres, to Miriam, to Hemogenes etc. Yes, definitely that spirit speaks to you and it is so easy for you to concede to his whims. If you spend time in prayerful intersession for the saints it would be very difficult to open the same mouth and rain abuses on those who you have already prayed for.

I pray this wisdom isn't above you too much even as I commend you to the word, who Judges rightly. We would all give accounts.

Go through your lists again and see who has been raining abuses and invectives on the other. Obviously you've been lying to yourself since that you intercede for any saint as only desperate invectives reside in your mouth and false claims.

I commend you and your heroes to God too to judge for all the harm they've caused the body of Christ for whom Christ died. I pray you and them realise you'll give account someday.

Wonderful post @OP. Your post made that chapter come alive.

"Salvation is faith in the finished works of Christ plus nothing"

God bless you indeed.

Processor01: I can relate to this kind of pomposity because I have been there before.

My pastors back then always made me and other regular donors feel like we were very special to God because we were 'partners' in 'his business' by doling out our cash to the church. As you progress on this journey, you begin to interpret most bible portions to align with your 'money rain' mindset then you begin to see the 'church building or structure' as the fertile land to sow your seeds and the needy ones around, as less or nonfertile - after all, what stops them from exercising your kind of 'faith'.

This walk gradually draws you closer to the heart of your 'father in the lord' but farther away from your Father's but hey, guess we all know pride doesn't jump on anyone. It creeps in slowly.

There is a way that [b]seems right [/b]to a man, but it's end is the way of death


Brother, slow down.

Exactly. Such attitudes makes people become cruel, unfeeling and inconsiderate. They start believing the needy and the sick are the architects of their own misfortune since they refuse to 'utilise faith'. How then can such a person tell you he's concerned about the needy? You'll just immediately know such is a liar. No wonder they'd rather give to the already overfed and over rich pastor than look in the direction of one needy brother "who is too faithless to receive from God".

To them giving to rich pastor means giving to God while giving to the poor is just alms. Clearly turning the words of Jesus Christ in Matt 25:35-45 upside down.

God bless you bro.

mbaemeka: 1. Jesus should have Prayed for diseases to leave the world instead of healing people who came to him in faith. He is the Miracle-patent; why not ask him that?

Of course Jesus knew it was premature for any talks of utopia. He knew there is a time coming there will be a new earth and a new heaven and until that time, all creation including you even if you keep lying about it will continue to groan and travail in this body of corruption. I dont need to ask him why. I already know because he told us in the word. Christ showed us a glimpse of it before and after ressurection.

You're the one lying and trying to run ahead of Christ to your destruction. Plenty of your heroes made more boastings than you and they were liquidated by diseases that some sinners never even encounter. I hope you don't go the same route.

2. until you understand what Paul said in Romans 8:11 you will grow sickly, die; in accidents; get murdered etc. Each man to his own. I prefer my poison to yours. I can see my results but you have nothing to expect.

You could have been beheaded like Paul if you were a christian 'unlucky' to be born in Mosul, Iraq. Rather you boast because God made it possible for you to be born to a tolerant community in southern Nigeria.

Are the Christians being bombed, beheaded, shot and wounded in borno and yobe less christian than you? Is it their faith that failed?

Of course I prefer my position too but I know better than to boast its due to my level of faith or spiritual knowledge.

3. Salvation is of the Spirit; soul and body. You over-estimate your opinions I told you before.

Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV
In whom ye also trusted , after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, [14] Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Earnest in that passage means 'down payment'. The bolded portion says God sealed us with his spirit as a down payment UNTIL the redemption of the possession he purchased.

When is the until going to be? Or when did it materialise?
What is the purchased possession that God will redeem then?
If your body has been saved from corruption, why do you still fall into ocassional sin? Why would you grow old, weak, wrinkle and die?(if Jesus tarries)

4. LOL, as intelligent as you think you are you didn't see that well-written nonsense for what it was- Nonsense! I have been on NL longer than my moniker suggests. I read Sirjohn's fables in 2008 when he posted it and I can assure you he failed miserably at his discreditation of the healing school. 6 years down the line and there's now one in Canada to add to the one in SA and Nigeria. Presidents, captains of industry, CEOs, thousands and thousands of people have gone there post-Sirjohns nonsense and all came back to give different testimonies and accounts. John 7:12 says Jews said Jesus was deceiving the people too. LOL

I repeat, it is easier to perform a miracle in Jesus name than to fake one.

Alqaeda also expanded into Africa during that period, it doesn't mean they're right. Boko haram also became very widely known and expanded their operations, it doesn't also mean God sanctioned them. Olumba Olumba Obu too must have expanded during this period. It signifies nothing about God's righteousness. These only mean desperate people are increasing everyday.

So keep on opening and expanding.

A miracle is easier to perform in Jesus name if indeed its a miracle and not some stage managed act for which your group is well known.

5. You can stop us from faking miracles by showing us how it is really done or you can keep mum.

You guys are incorrigible and totally sold to falsehood and fraud. They don't teach or show people how to perform miracle. Its your warped idea of God that plants such thoughts in your heart. God does his miracles in his own way.

6. Yes, I put money into my Pastors laps. But I will not lie that I saw bank cheques addressed to Oyedepo's account in terms of "sowing seeds". Oyedepo stopped taking a salary from his church since the 80s and will now give people his account details to give him 2k? I think it safer to believe Oyedepo than you. If you are so desperate to invoke argumentums ad verecundiam to make a point then we should expect more fabrications than just the bank tale rubbish.

eyaa, if only he knows. Whether he takes a salary or not is irrelevant here. The man and his family own everything so what does a salary mean to him? Does Adenuga need a salary from Globacom?

You dont need to believe me but whether or not you do, LFC attendees will not deny that People climb pulpits and testify that they sowed money into 'papa's' account and the 'god of oyedepo' gave them breakthroughs neither will those who attended WOFBI at different locations at least as at 2010 deny that Pastors gave his account numbers to people who wish to sow into them so they can tap his anointing

7. God prospers me in his way, I put him first so I respond and look for needs in his house to be met. You don't give and when others get you won't sleep. Then you, in a sweeping move call the givers greedy and you the hoarders- selfless. You have got jokes to give Julius Agwu.

Me don't give? Me call givers greedy?? Not at all. Those I call greedy are those who see God as a Kalo kalo machine which you can manipulate for your benefit.

Resources must flow from those who have to those who don't have in the gathering of God's people has been and will always be my belief. Anything contrary removes God from such a congregation.

This was the practice of the early church. This was the belief and lifestyle of Jesus and its my belief as well.

8. I don't really know sons of hell- I left that judgment to the word long ago but I am 99% sure they would specialize in despising dominion, speaking evil of dignitaries; speaking evil of those things which they know not, tell lies, believe lies, endorse lies, move from church to church like spiritual nomads and vagabonds; having no Pastors over their heads etc.

You know your g.o too fits the bill of a vagabond? He too was said never to have had a pastor over his head. Abi who is the pastor over him now?

There's only one church my friend. Its called the body of Christ, the bride of Christ. It surely has no office on earth. Its headquarters is in heaven. All saved souls belong to it irrespective of which location they worshiped at today. Men can keep on forming their own 'church'. God knows only one.

9. Yea the business of bringing people into God's salvation- with everything we have got. If you are a greedy churl this will irritate you.

No bro. You're only in it to line your pockets. If you say membership drive, you'll be right. Soul winning is very far from your mind.

10. Keep that unintelligent response about High priests and political leaders nonsense to someone who knows less. King Herod and Agrippa come to mind so easily. The High Priests are and will always be Spiritual leaders like Oyedepo, Adeboye and Kumuyi etc. are today. Paul defamed the High Priest Ananias and quickly apologized because he was in the wrong. Even if Ananias wasn't Paul's spiritual leader at the time

Keep calling them charlatans. You are so spiritual!! But I do not envy you.

So your pastors are in the mould of the high priests? No wonder they run your life for you. Paul called him ruler of the people. Is oyaks also your ruler?

Also, pls keep Kumuyi out of that group. He has never called himself a high priest because he knows better neither has he called himself a god because again, he's not on the useless ego trip that confuses you and your heroes.

11. Of course, you saw the anointing on Saul's life because you lived in his day. This reminds me of the Jews who said they knew God spoke to Moses but could not be certain that God spoke to Jesus.

I have seeing the power of God at work in these men's lives and as such will not join you scoffers in your road to destruction. I have too much rank for that.

Saul was anointed and we read it in the bible. Hope you know the fact that anyone had oil poured on him doesn't mean God anointed him? Because you should know Goya oil cost less than 300 naira to buy so you can also get yourself anointed by me today if you wish.

What did Jesus do when the jews said that? Did he rain fire and brimstone on them as you wish you could do now?

But you can scoff at God, ridicule God by telling me you are in God's class and can do what God can do because God utilises the same faith that is available to you? My friend, its you I'm afraid for. You, a mere mortal that God had pity on claiming God's abilities. You and your heroes don't fear God, why should I fear you?

mbaemeka: I am just seeing this.

1. GOD said "Ye are gods and all of you are children of the most high". God said it. Let it marinate.

In the same chapter where you got this warped idea from, see what God told those he referred to as gods

Psalm 82:7 KJV
But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

If only you learn to let the bible say what it wants to say. God knew whom he was talking to there and it sure wasn't you or where you a judge in Israel? See the scriptures

Psalm 82:1-4 KJV
God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. [2] How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. [3] Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. [4] Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

That scripture read fully will tell you that you've bastardised it to fulfill the lie the devil used to hoodwink eve in the garden.

When Jesus used that reference in John, who was he referring to? Christians or the blaspheming Jews who wanted to stone him for claiming Sonship of God? Are u one of them?

2. Mbaemeka has no power of his own but the one that God gave me. And I didn't give it back to God I am using it to serve him. Some others don't believe God. What is that to do with me?

And God made you his partner god? I have heard some of you claim you can create like God, how many plants and animals have you created so far?

People believe God. What people will not swallow is vapour like you claiming godhood.

James 4:14 KJV
Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.

3. You really believe. We can take your words for it but we can't take Oyedepos and other MOGs whose belief in God is tangible and evident. The same over-estimated sense of self-importance again.

not my words for I've not made any claims. However your claims are bogus and pure lies and same with the claims of most of the big 'men of God'

4. 'unclothed' did you miss that part or don't you think it forms a new meaning to the verse once taken into cognizance. Paul was arrested and imprisoned without food or clothes on some occasions. He ought to have been hungry and cold. What does that have to do with anything?

Vain quibling over words with nothing being passed.

I thought you said he never suffered hunger? Now its vain quibling because your lie was exposed? Everything Paul suffered, he listed. You lied that he never suffered hunger because you've been taught that a christian shouldn't be honest about his situation. The apostle obviously sees the larger picture and enumerated all his travails so we will all know he wasn't superhuman. See them again

2 Corinthians 11:23-27 KJV
Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. [24] Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. [25] Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; [26] In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; [27] In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and unclothedness.

Paul suffered like the Christians in Iraq are currently suffering. Like the Christians in northern Nigeria are currently suffering. Like true Christians in southern Nigeria would suffer if God doesn't keep BH at bay.

5. Shall all my experiences seperate me from the love of Christ (Paraphrasing Paul)? Have you been arrested, imprisoned, scourged etc? Again what has this got to do with anything?

If you suffer like Paul did or like the Christians in borno and yobe are currently doing, you would have given up on Christianity a long time ago. Its obvious as you said it yourself. Its clear you are in church because you were promised an eldorado as long as you keep greasing the palms of your pastors.

6. And leave the persecution gibberish to those who really suffer it. You're a nonentity. The men of God that you rain invectives on are the one's that face it as part of the promises of the gospel. You would be on the side of the one's who make and propagate false accusations about them. You are the insignificant persecutor.

Why do you like confusing yourself? You call me a nonentity and at the same time, you cry that I'm persecuting your heroes? How can a nonentity persecute big 'gods'?

In any case, you, your pastors and I are equally nonentities in the sight of God and can be zapped at his pleasure. As long as you, your mog and I are in this body of flesh and blood, we all are but vapour and grass

James 4:13-16 KJV
Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain: [14] Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. [15] For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that. [16] But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil.

1 Peter 1:24 KJV
For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

7. We know about the Immortal body. Romans 8:11 says the Holy Spirit vitalizes the mortal one even while we wait. This is not promised to the average Candour. It is to those who have the Holy Spirit.

So you know there's an immortal body we will get at Christ second coming? I thought you are already a god and already like Christ with all his resurrection features?

Will you eventually die and rot in the grave if Jesus tarries? Did Kathryn khulman have this holy spirit? Did Paul crouch have it? Did Oral Roberts have it? Keep deceiving yourself.

8.The early apostles called Joses, Barnabas meaning Son of Consolation. They knew he was always sure to respond when a need arose in the early church. Later on the bible describes him as an Apostle and a Prophet and the Holy Spirit separated him specially for a function. Such a selfless Christian I cannot separate his seed from the Grace for Apostleship and Prophetship. I told you he that is trusted in little is trusted in much. Grace abounds to a giver and his righteousness is of established of the lord.

Really?? What about the others that gave everything according to the scriptures below?

Acts 2:45 KJV
And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men , as every man had need.

Acts 4:34 KJV
Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

Were they also rewarded with pastorates and apostolic office? You're really trying hard to make the apostles look like your leaders who sell positions in your church to the highest bidder. Keep embarrassing yourself.

9. They gathered the remnants and threw it away. That's a better explanation. I have to submit to your superior wisdom O wise one.

Of course you have no choice but to agree with truth. What else will a rational human being do with remnants of fish and bread?

10. He pastored a church in Galatia et al. Let the pride of goofing by using Paul as a standard to insult MOG not cause you to sink any lower than you already have. Repent from such evil as is unbecoming of a spiritual Christian that you should be considering how derelict your spiritual itinerary has been for years.

My dear, if we have 12 mog in this country who have the anointing, integrity and compassion of the apostles with the tolerance Christianity has today, the whole nation would have been won for Christ. Instead we have plenty crooks and their lackeys like you who worship them and equate them to God. Oh I even forgot you're a god yourself.

11. LOL, I don't need to sow money to reap money. What I have belongs to God and I give it as it comes in. God In return keeps replenishing my reserve because he is my source and I seek more avenues to help others not just "myself" as you are content with. What a life you live. As long as your needs are met you are satisfied. Well, I am not. I want to do more. Sucks to be you.

Really? So are your pastors who threaten and cajole people to sow money into their ministries and reap megally lying?

So you actually reckon with the needy? I thought your pastor is the only one you're mandated to give to so the returns can be great? Of course you can't be me. You're too greedy to be me.

12. I am delivered from them and I am here to ensure that the newer sheep are delivered from them too. That's why I am here. Just to let some people know that the gospel is beyond the poisonous nonsense that is being peddled as truth.

Then you repackage them into the bondage to your pastors you've put yourself into? Tell them theyre gods while taking the little they have from them? Don't worry, folks are reading and I trust God is showing them the truth.

13. Let him that stole steal no more but let him work with his hands that thing that is good so that he can feed himself and his family? NO. So that he can help others. Grow up from your avarice and mediocrity. God wants you to help more people than yourself.

Hmmm....you've never given much thought to the poor so why pretend like you care now? You insult those less privileged so why are u suddenly forming compassion? How much does a human being really need to live? I have no problem giving to the needy and ive preached that to u countless times but you'll rather give to an overfed pastor. If you and your churches truly care for the poor, with the funds at your disposal, you shouldn't have a single needy person in your church.

14. Please don't give thieves. Give to the work of the ministry even as you help the poor. Also don't call any Pastor a thief. The Spirit has asked me to warn you. There is a way that seems right to a man but the ends thereof is destruction.

Its only an evil spirit that would want anyone to cover up a thief and encourage him to keep taking money from the needy hiding under the canopy of God. You're obviously scared and in awe of your pastors, I'm not.

The spirit asked me not to cover up criminal activities. If a pastor steals or defrauds people in his name or in the name of God, he's a thief. He's a robber.

therealMcCain: If God didn't grant his request he would have gone ahead to put his house in order as he was previously instructed

God determined the 15yrs

What did David do after his son died despite the fasting?

Anyone that disputes the sovereignty of God or takes God for a on & off switch is deluded

I hear people in their prayer, commanding God & I shudder at that

so I strongly know & believe that at the end of the day, Gods sovereignty rules

@the bolded. Classic!!

God bless you bro. This is the truth that some vain people just refuse to accept.

Why would anybody want to feel equal to God almighty? The same lie that Satan sold to eve in eden is being repackaged and folks are buying it and paying money to those selling them the lies.

God bless you again

mbaemeka: 1. Ye are gods- GOD said. The Glory I have I have given those that believe in me- God said. If they're fantasies I would rather live in them than accept the poison that you would rather drink to your own detriment.

Also, leave Elijahs shortcomings and discuss his achievements or are you scared?

I'm not scared of Elijah's achievements and exploits. In fact they remind me of how great, magnificent and sovereign my God is. What I don't do is arrogate the powers of God. See the apostles reaction when some confused men called them gods

Acts 14:11, 14-15 KJV
And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. [14] Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of , they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, [15] And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

If it were to be you, you would have opened a thread on NL to celebrate it and claim you're publicizing Christ.

2. God is a deliverer and a rescuer Nebuchadnezzar said. I love that! If he doesn't deliver you he can rescue you. Please read with the eyes of the spirit.

Exactly my friend. God is the great rescuer and deliverer. The point is that the 3 Hebrew men realised ONLY God has the power to but here you're claiming godhood. Has it ever occurred to you that Shadrach, Meshack and Abednego read psalm 82 before your entire lineage was born? Do you think they forgot it? They understood that scripture didn't mean what you've twisted it into.

3. Make up stories? Try another joke. It is easier to heal in the name of Jesus than it is to fake one.

You are talking about Ebola and I am asking you if you have seen an accidented leg whose bones had been crushed to pieces put together by the anointing of God's spirit. This anointing split the red sea; caused Quales to come to the desert; made a decomposed body regenerate. This is God's power we are talking about o! Come on!

I have no problem with God. My problem is with you that claims to have God's ability to do and undo. You call yourself a god, why then would you need God?

God heals my friend. I have no doubt in my mind. What I doubt is you and some pastors self aggrandizing claims to the miraculous.

4. Pharisees of Jesus day asked him same questions and he gave a fitting reply: wisdom is justified by her children.

Paul said I know how to Abound and I know how to Abase. I too know how to Abound and how to go hungry. August 1st-3rd I went without food because I was fasting and praying for lost souls amongst other things. Yet I had alot of food to eat in my house. That's how to be hungry.

God's children should stop converting their poverty to a fast!

Philippians 4:16 KJV
For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity.

2 Corinthians 11:27 KJV
In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in[b] fastings[/b] often, in cold and unclothedness.


My dear, Paul didn't lie and he hasn't commissioned you to lie for him. Like the above scripture shows, he knew when he lacked food and was hungry and he also knew when he was fasting.

Paul suffered wants like any average Joe can and needed charity from generous folks.

4. God told Paul he was to suffer for the gospel. God didn't tell mbaemeka that he was to suffer for the gospel. God told me to prosper for the gospel. Amen.

Of course mbaemeka is a christian because his pastor promised him an escalade and account filled with $$$ if he repeats the sinners prayer. Are the scriptures below in your bible?

Romans 8:35-37 KJV
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or unclothedness, or peril, or sword? [36] As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. [37] Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

2 Timothy 3:12 KJV
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

5. I can write a book on the rapture and the second coming- just so you'd know. What I am yet to know is if when we return to the new earth we would still have poor people to help.

Can you answer that in light of the above discourse?

No my dear. We all will be basking in our glorious new bodies not subject to sickness, disease neither will we suffer any thing untoward again. That is the hope of the believer. That was the hope Paul and others had that made them not to accuse Christ of lying even though they left this world wretched, poor and wounded.

6. Joses whose name was changed to Barnabas because of his LARGE SEED became a Pastor and Prophet.

My friend finally unveils a CEC practice. So it was his large seed that made him get anointed by God? Of course thats the criteria for installing pastors in your church. How morally bankrupt. Is God so needy in your estimation? Even politicians will be ashamed to admit they sell offices to the highest bidder.

Where in the bible did you get this satanic conclusion?

The little boy who sowed his 5loaves and 2 fish became a distributor of bread afterwards abi who do you suppose they gave the remnants to? (Bible quiz)

Since you were there tell me whom they gave it to. So the boy became a bread distributor afterwards? Also the Bible calls them remnants, how do you treat remnants of your bread and fish at home? You repackage them for sale? Men, i fear you o. You have no inhibition from creating a lie from the bible and spreading it. Haba!!!

7. Paul's churches where situated in Gentile regions. He was the one who started a church in Galatia amongst other places and so he was the resident Pastor and father of the church. I cannot for example go to LFC and tell them not to use anointing oil (even if I do not believe in it). But if I was a pastor in my own church I can teach my church that. That's the due process that God expects from his church to avoid strifes.

Kai!!! Paul's churches?? Can you point to one verse where Paul referred to any congregation as his church?

8. I don't know why money makes you cringe and have sleepless nights. Some of us don't value it the way you do. The money someone else is praying for to pay his house rent might be my monthly contribution to a church. Let each man give as he desires. He that is trusted in little is trusted in much.

See me see wahala?? You're the one who preaches that I should sow seed or die poor, now you accuse me of valuing money. Who is the lover of money? You who is desperate to show all that you're rich or me that isn't bothered whether your famed devourer comes my way or not?

You're the one that won't sleep well this night if anything happens to your money supply. I already have more than my needs met my bro. I don't need the ones your heroes promise you every day.

9. Thank you for the correction on the scripture verses. I have been meditating on Paul's prayer about God delivering us from wicked and unreasonable men who don't have faith. Maybe that's probably why I mixed the verses.

I hope you get the deliverance

A greedy man is the one who would rather prosper away from God's guidance and grace so that he would not be responsible for the work of God.

Who can claim to have anything that wasn't given by God even if they refuse to acknowledge him?

Also a greedy man is the man who never has enough. This should be clear from the bible and the dictionary.

God is the Lord of my life and money. I endeavour to put him first...always! If you see me prospering or talking about it, it is because it is a bonus. The word said God will give me all those things that selfish (myself myself christians and bloggers crave) as ja ra in yoruba parlance- extra.

Praise God!

Thank God for you if indeed he is. He's God over my money which is why I font give it to thieves who are simply after their bellies and not after God. I give to build God's buildings and they're not mortar and brick but people, Christians.

therealMcCain: Firstly I think we all have to settle with what Paul said about us knowing in parts
1cor13:9


you said the following in response to mbaemeka post



I beg to differ, hezekieh did & got an extension

isiah 38:1-5
1 In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz came unto him, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Set thine house in order: for thou shalt die, and not live.
2 Then Hezekiah turned his face toward the wall, and prayed unto the LORD,
3 And said, Remember now, O LORD, I beseech thee, how I have walked before thee in truth and with a perfect heart, and have done that which is good in thy sight. And Hezekiah wept sore.
4 Then came the word of the LORD to Isaiah, saying,
5 Go, and say to Hezekiah, Thus saith the LORD, the God of David thy father, I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will add unto thy days fifteen years

Pls read my post which you quoted again. Hope you saw the word argue? I trust you know there's a difference between request and argue? Hezekiah didn't argue with the prophet or God. He went on his knees in prayers, weeping and requests.

Also I wish to ask you. If God didn't grant His request, what could he have done? Who determined the extra 15 years? God or Hezekiah?

Looking at it from a physical view with no spiritual undertone, it was wicked for Elijah to have made such request.

1kings17:12
12 And she said, As the LORD thy God liveth, I have not a cake, but an handful of meal in a barrel, and a little oil in a cruse: and, behold, I am gathering two sticks, that I may go in and dress it for me and my son, that we may eat it, and die.

Here was a woman who said she didn't have enough food, she even said she & her son will eat it and die, meaning she didn't have anything to eat after that meal

But the prophet still requested for a piece of that meal, that wasn't enough. Pls isn't that selfishness & wickedness(coming from a physical stand point)

If this were to happen in present day, all the media will go agog & give that pastor unprintable names

But there was a spiritual undertone to it & thank God the woman act accordingly(she had physical reason not to obey)

So based on this story, who was supposed to give to who

The prophet to the woman or the woman to the prophet??

Can you pls point out what the prophet had in his hands that he could have given the widow?

See the scripture again. Focus on the bolded portion.

1 Kings 17:13 KJV
And Elijah said unto her, Fear not; go and do as thou hast said: but make me thereof a little cake first, and bring it unto me, and after make for thee and for thy son.

He didn't intend taking everything. He only wanted to 'manage' what she had with her and God rewarded her kind heartedness. Whether she gave him or not, without God's involvement, she was going to die so why hold on to it?

A hungry man requested food from a widow who had little. As at that point in time, she was richer than him. I see nothing wrong with that. Do you?

Its very unlike the situation with our rich pot bellied pastors today.

Acts 23:1-4
1 And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day.
2 And the high priest Ananias commanded them that stood by him to smite him on the mouth.
3 Then said Paul unto him, God shall smite thee, thou whited wall: for sittest thou to judge me after the law, and commandest me to be smitten contrary to the law?
4 And they that stood by said, Revilest thou God's high priest?
5 Then said Paul, I wist not, brethren, that he was the high priest: for it is written, Thou shalt not speak evil of the ruler of thy people.

Paul apologized because it was written & not becos of any politics!!!

Paul apologised because he insulted a ruler of the people. I didn't say he was playing politics.

mbaemeka: 1. Please show us where God said he reserves the right to heal a man and juxtapose it with him reserving the right so save anyone. What I mean by this is- If I ask God to come and live in me (salvation) can he say to me "I am sovereign, I will let you be saved if I want to"? Now compare it with receiving healings because the scriptures that tell us about his salvation also tell us about our healings.

I am waiting.

Have you ever prayed for Ebola to disappear since you heard about it? How come we still grapple with it? After all Elijah commanded rain to cease where he was standing and the entire world felt it. He didn't need to go from place to place. What about boko haram? Have you ever mentioned it in your prayers before? Or decreed it out of existence? Why is it still prevalent?

Until you understand that your flesh is not yet redeemed and will grow weak, sick, decay and die, you'll simply keep living in fantasy.

Salvation is of the soul. Your flesh is still of the adamic nature and subject to the elements of the world. The rapture will get us new bodies that will not be subject to any corruption.

2. Can we just achieve the results of the Heroes of faith before we can also share in their 'perceived' failures? Paul told the church in Philippi to focus on the aspects that are of good report; true; praiseworthy; pure etc. So it is only wise that I celebrate those aspects.

Where are your signs? GOD confirmed the words that the disciples preached with signs and wonders.

Its good you celebrate them.

You're the one who keeps screaming signs and wonders so please oblige me with the proofs and I'm not talking of a spurious miracle of EVD cure in faraway Tanzani.

3. I have not seen any where that I suggested that the healings were to be wrought by any other name save Jesus' and I have testimonies to back my points.

Anyone who cursorily reads my post and is of God's spirit can tell that I have tasted of the Power from on High so I can tell you. If anything at least my convictions in my posts are evident.

what is rather strange is how the minority that dispute all aspects of acting on the word will now claim they act on the same word. If you have seen a miracle wrought by your hands it will be difficult to criticise another person's. Iron sharpens Iron.

and you can point to a place where I discountenanced God's miracles? What is in dispute is you and your supermen's claims of miracles that keep getting exposed as stage managed acts or you didn't see the thread on your church's 'healing school' scams and the attempts to cover them up?

Most times, its the minority that keep their heads when the majority lose theirs in the mad frenzy to belong.

I have seen miracles. Miracles happen everyday but I know they're exclusively the doings of God and he can use whomever or whatever he wills at any time.

4. Elijah was in no way needy! He was being fed bread and meat by God almighty by Ravens (during a famine). God decided to bless a cheerful-prompt-to-do-it giver whose heart was in her giving so he sent the MOG to go to her.

Was Elijah hungry when he met her or not? How much did he have on him? How many sacks of grain did he have?

Elijah asked her for 'seed faith'. He said give the last meal that you have and I assure you you will not lack. The widow responded and was blessed. Elijah didn't steal from her. . .he was sent there to bless her. That's what Jesus taught us! 2 Chronicles 20: 20 says if we believe God's prophets we will PROSPER.

Of course I can see your prosperity all over NL. Elijah asked for food and he received from a kind hearted widow. He had nothing on him save his clothes and staff and was the right candidate for charity.

Oyedepo was big before you and will always be big. When you stopped sowing into the work of his ministry he didn't call you over the Phone. He doesn't need you to prosper him it is you who needs him.

Paul told us his church that they were PART-TAKERS of his grace.

The nite club I used to patronise in my youth didn't miss me too when I stopped going there because more and more night crawlers are being born everyday. So also 'papa' can't miss me as more and more people desperate for more will keep rushing there. Greed is very strong in humans.

Matthew 7:13 KJV
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

5. Jesus passed through that beautiful gate on occasions but he didn't heal the man (obviously the man didn't believe in Jesus and he didn't ask Jesus for help). Now the same man asks Peter and John for help and instead of giving him money. . They healed him.

That's what a healing school is about: People go there expressing faith in God's ability to heal and then God responds by giving it to them. The 'school' in the appellation only formalizes it.

So because Christ missed the man, the temple suddenly turned to a 'healing school'? Why do you like importing your ideas into the bible? Who were the 'healing school' teachers that taught the man? How long did he spend in this 'school'?

Was the man expecting any miracle talk less of having any belief to be healed? So if you beg money from me now, you automatically believe I have power to heal you? This your logic is warped.

Your healing school has no basis in the bible no matter how much you twist scripture.

Secondly, please spare us the talk about false prophets and false miracles. We are aware of such. You can show us the real one's yourself so that we can believe you.

It is a lie from the pit of hell that anyone will wrought a miracle in Jesus' name and be evil. Satan can not hear that name without bowing. Demons flee when the name is mentioned.

I personally believe it is easier to perform a miracle in Jesus name than it is to fake one. And I see no reason why anyone will create a school to fake miracles when they don't charge you; don't ask you for your help; feed you themselves; give you shelter; and use the name of Jesus.

Try another lie we are not buying this one. Or better still refer us to your own miracles. Let me see you ask a man on a wheel chair to get up from it and walk in the name of Jesus.

Of course a miracle isn't difficult for Jesus. He owns the patent. What is in doubt is your fabled ability to imitate Jesus. The verdict is that you're fake and make up stories of miracles.

6. If I live and die for Christ my money should live and die for him. My money should go to his work, my money should be channeled to his work. It is an open and shutcase. We don't need to quibble over words.

The irony of it all is that the people who will not let a dime go God's work will in the same breath talk about how they support the help of the poor. The brethren of Judas'.

Of course, NL is faceless so I am left to judge you and your ilk by your words. On that authority I can put it to you that if I was to compare what I give out to the sum total of you and your ilk you lot will not measure up.

I don't see how the 5K you didn't give towards LFCs church project affected the completion of it or Oyedepos networth. You exaggerate your importance alot that is what I can gather.

Of course in your world, the only money that goes to God's work is the one you pour into your pastor's laps. People routinely support every work that glorifies God without the mediation of your church. There's life and the work of God beyond your church building.

You're the one with an inflated ego who believes everybody who doesn't believe in your pastors must be poor. You're the one who goes to great lengths to tell us how you've become so rich because you 'sow'. I have nothing to prove to anybody. The fact that I have my needs met is enough. Every and any other thing I have or get is jara.

You might be your church's rich man but very well someone else's wretched man. It a question of perspective.

8. MONEY moves the gospel in this day. Pristine door-to-door evangelism is effective but it's far-reaching capabilities isn't. The time is short and the lord is soon to come. This message has to get to every nuke and cranny of the world before the Master returns. Jesus said the harvest is plenteous but the labourers are few and I don't expect Dangote to use his money to propagate the gospel so I have to do it myself.

If this sort of conviction is above your pay grade it is understandable. It is not above mine. God in response to his word keeps making all grace abound toward me so I am always having enough to give at every opportunity. I have the mind of christ who said his kingdom is spread abroad through the prosperity of his citizens. I don't ask for prosperity it is already mine. And I am not contented with just me, myself and I (like you non-greedy christians are)

I would rather desire to have more so I can help more than to be satisfied with the mediocrity that you and your ilk have accepted.

Jesus said where a man's treasure is that is where his heart will be.

Why not? Traverse lands and seas to make a proselyte then turn him into twice the son of hell. My dear, true missionaries are in the places that have not truly heard the gospel and their work is very effective with the little support they get. Not those gallivanting all over Europe and america that brought the gospel to us in the first place

Every mega ministry is raising funds to evangelise the world so its not a crime if you join the bandwagon. Its a business so why not latch on to it?

9. You want to help Paul explain himself and Paul said that is a lie. Paul didn't know who Ananias was he thought he was just another man and so he called him a whitewashed wall. Someone said to Paul "you revile the High Priest" and Paul apologised saying "We are not to speak evil of Dignitaries". Paul is christian and Ananias a Jew yet Paul did not call him a charlatan.

I expect you to know that the religious leaders were also the political leaders of the Jews and as at this time, they had become empty of anything spiritual. Only the political remained. He was nothing more than that.

@the bolded. So even though we all know your heroes are charlatans, we shouldn't call them that?

That same Paul in almost all his writings admonished his members to imitate him in that regard. David after having learnt about Sauls death said to his soldiers " tell it not in Garth" in other words, don't say it amongst the heathen.

The difference between Saul and your men is that at least, Saul was anointed. Nothing to show most of them are anything more than smart businessmen

I see your problem is that their nefarious activities shouldn't be published.

These men are wiser than your entire clan. You should do well to learn a thing or two from them.

Sure they're more cunning and crooked than my entire clan. It takes a real sharp guy to keep thousands hoodwinked on lies for so long.

Nothing good to learn from them concerning the way of the cross.

mbaemeka: 1. Elijah declared rainlessness to Israel. Moved away to a Brook in Cherith and was fed everyday by Ravens (the greediest birds known to man). God sends him to Zarephath and he feeds a broke widow for many days before he prays for rain to come back. He outruns kings chariots; he calls fire from heaven; he teleports; he is flown in a chariot of fire to heaven; he doesn't taste death; he appears to Jesus; he is destined to return.

This same Elijah or are you referring to another?

Hmmm...this is getting interesting. Is it the same Elijah that couldn't stand the threat from a woman, ran away and started begging God to kill him before Jezebel did him in?

The prophet remembered and realised he was human after all and only did all those miracles and wonders at God's pleasure. When God was ready again, he got reenergised. He wasn't deluding himself claiming a non existent 'godhood'. God is sovereign and would not share that priviledge with any mortal. Wish you guys could stop dwelling in fantasy sometimes and tell yourselves some truth.

2. Everyone can see how your flawed your reasoning is: we are to emulate the sickness of the early disciples but not their miracles and it is what God taught you from the scriptures? Not my God.

We are to taught to Emulate their faith and patience so as to obtain the same promises that they did (Hebrews 6:12)

If trustman asks anybody to pray to be sick like the apostles, I must have missed it and I'll tell him here that he's wrong if indeed he advocated that.

When Paul and co were being led to their deaths, their faith in God and his righteousness never failed. To the world, they lost out, but to God, they were victors. This was the same faith Shadrach, Meshack and Abednego displayed before the king when, even though they didn't know God would deliver them, they refused to compromised.

That is the faith we are asked to emulate. Not this counterfeit one that only has $$$ as its objective.

3. What Special calling did Stephen and Phillip have? Did Jesus lie when he said: "these signs shall follow the believing ones"?

Are you part of the believing ones? Where are the signs?

How many signs have been associated with you? How do we ascertain you're not simply making up the stories like the usual suspects? After all I can also claim to have cured 100 Ebola patients in bayelsa and you won't be able to refute it.

4. How many sick have you prayed for? Did they receive their healings? We need proof to ascertain your responses to these questions.

Nigeria needs your help to combat EVD. How many have you done so far?

5. Did Jesus say the rewards where only going to be in heaven? Did he not say "In this world they would receive a hundred fold"?

Again did Jesus lie?

Jesus told the apostles that, can you tell us how many houses and farmland Paul had as at the time of his death? They all survived on charity by the church and even Paul had to do a menial job. Did Jesus lie?

You should explain how the 100 fold return didn't work for them since you're the prophet of prosperity. In fact see the testimony of Paul

2 Corinthians 11:25-27 KJV
Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; [26] In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; [27] In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and unclothedness.

Did Paul's faith fail? Is there something you know now that he didn't?

Paul said the "Givers" will have ALL grace abounding towards them in all sufficiency and that they would always have an abundance to do more good works. Did Paul mean in HEAVEN?

What good works will I need to do in heaven? Lol

Don't hide behind the curtain of heaven: we know about rewards in Heaven. But Jesus also told us about the one's on earth and it would never be taken away from us.

Do you know Christians who are raptured will only spend 7 years in heaven before coming back to the earth with the Lord for the millennial reign?

6. Is persecution now a substitute for giving? You are quoting verses saying there's a reward for those that suffer persecution in heaven. Please show us instances where Jesus said givers will be rewarded in heaven. Afterall at the mouth of 2 or 3 bible witnesses a truth can be established.

How come the givers of acts 2 & 4 became the objects of gentile Christian charity during Paul's ministry? Did they sow wrongly?

7. You talked about reading scriptures in context and I laughed my head off. I haven't seen a larger group of "out-of-context" readers in my life.

Paul had his own church in Galatia and Peter visited him there. Of course, Paul is allowed to correct Peter in his own church. When Paul visited the Jerusalem church headed by James why didn't he refute James there or scold him publicly? Even when it was clear that Paul didn't agree with some of the Judaistic requirements stipulated by the council he kept his cool because he understood what I am showing to you now.

No wonder oyaks, oyedepo, Joshua all have their individual churches now. What was the name of Paul's church? What about Peter's and John's?

No wonder every body feels called today to open a church. Its never about God but about themselves and their ego.....and the $$$$$.

1 Thesselonians 3: 2 Paul admonished us to recognise those who labour amongst us and are over us in the work of the ministry. He said we are to esteem them very highly in love because of their work.

It would have been fine if he just said esteem them or esteem them highly. Instead he said ESTEEM THEM VERY HIGHLY in LOVE.

Interestingly he added that we are to WARN those who break ranks and speak evil. Maybe Paul didn't know what he meant when he said so.

I trust Paul better. FYI

If only those causing the harm to God's children are actually labouring for the flock and not their pockets and bellies, we could have seen them in the class of those Paul was talking about but alas they're greedier than death.

Meanwhile, the reference is 1Thessalonians 5:13.

therealMcCain: Sincerely speaking u guys are confusing me!!

Question 1:How then can a Christian act on those verses?? It's usage & application

I wasn't there when the bible was written, after careful study I find that all those who gave to the poor, gave to the prophets got blessed or received supernatural interventions

Based on these cases, I then decide to be a giver because I found out that all those that gave got blessed, are u saying God almighty will frown upon this

It shouldn't be difficult for you to understand neither should you be confused if you honestly seek answers. I hope you careful study of the bible also showed you none of those guys you studied gave out of anything but love?

Are u seeking a formidable money making charm or talisman? Are you desperate to become rich and feel the native doctors will exact too much from you hence you seek a talisman from the God of the bible?

Did your study also reveal Ananias and Saphira to you? I hope you remember the 'blessing' they got for their giving?

God isn't a magician and cant be manipulated and as a christian, I really wish you'll realise this.

I know In Christianity there is always a more excellent way, so u can tell me that the more excellent way is to give out of love but to tell me that the man who decides to act on these scriptures is doing wrong or it's not going to work for him, is something I'm finding difficult to come to terms with

Thank God you know a christian should follow the more excellent way. If all you seek when you give is what comes back to u, then you're not a child of God and we shouldn't be having this discussion. Whether you get blessings or not because of it makes no difference because God pours blessings on both the good and the bad.

Remember Ananias and Saphira.

Note: i also know in the bible, There were cases of those who got supernatural intervention without giving

Question2: Act 10 talked about Cornelius, whose prayers & alms went up to God

I'm yet to see a very rich unbeliever who doesn't give to the poor & needy, you think it's becos of agape love? It's becos they have found out that there is something about giving

Was Cornelius generous because he read somewhere that if he gave God would send an apostle to him?

Have you read any interview of bill gates or his wife Melinda? Try and do so you can know not all folks even if they are not your everyday christian think of themselves all the time. Plenty people do good solely for altruistic reasons. I wish you'll get this spirit too.

Have you heard of Warren buffet the agnostic billionaire? He has 6 rules in his book of life and the last rule is "when you make the money, ensure you give it all away". You know why? Because he realises he doesn't need so much to live a good life. He still lives in his 1954 home and still drives his over 20 year old car.

Some people know there's more to life than money even if they're not Christians.

Even occultist gives, why do they give?

So what can a Christian glean from the above?

You'd have to ask a cultist why they give but for the Christian who knows what being saved means, see what should guide him

1 John 3:17 KJV
But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

Give out of compassion and a heart filled with concern for the needy.

mbaemeka: Should a Godly Christian heal the sick? If yes, where are your healings? If No, did Jesus lie?

Why can't you pray and watch a sick person get healed like Paul and all the other believers did?

That is the crux. God answers prayers and Christians must pray at all times. However, a Christian who knows God is sovereign like Shadrach, Meshack and Abednego affirmed and Paul also found out, will know God reserves the right to do what he deems fit whether you think its convenient for you or not.


Daniel 3:16-18 KJV
Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter. [17] If it be so , our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king. [18] But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.

2 Corinthians 12:8-9 KJV
For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. [9] And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.



Did these heroes of faith lack 'faith'? Would you have done better if you were in their position?

You should do well to show me where Jesus taught us to Pray to God to heal the sick. When you fail to do so I will show you 3 instances where he told us (by Us now I mean Christians) to heal the sick. Afterall, he said Speak to the mountain and not speak to God about the mountain so that it will move.

So through whom do you 'heal' the sick? Your name?

How many EVD cases have you commanded to go out so far? Or you've not heard about it?

Biodun Kumuyi died of cancer
Paul Crouch died from heart disease
Kathryn Khulman died on an operation table
A. A Allen died from disease
John G Lake died of disease, his wife died of stroke

Would you done better than these giants?

There are many reasons in scripture for giving and each and every one of them ends with the same outcome- that there will be a harvest/reward. I didn't say so- God said so himself. It is by FAITH that we understand that God is a REWARDER of THOSE that seek him DILIGENTLY.

Whether I give out of love for God or love for people's praises there would still be a reward- the former by God and the latter by men. The keyword is "reward" and it is inevitable.

When Elijah asked the widow of Zarephath to "sow" her last meal into his life did he do it to-

1. Steal from her?
2. Prosper her?

Remember God was already feeding him before he sent him to her. Now, interestingly Jesus refers to the same story and adds another caveat: That there were many other "suffering" widows (Emphasis mine) in Zarepath but to only her was Elijah sent. Care to know why? Because she was the only one sure to respond. I am sure to you and your ilk Elijah was a thief feeding on the poor widows mite.

1 Kings 17:13-14 KJV
And Elijah said unto her, Fear not; go and do as thou hast said: but make me thereof a little cake first, and bring it unto me, and after make for thee and for thy son. [14] For thus saith the Lord God of Israel, The barrel of meal shall not waste, neither shall the cruse of oil fail, until the day that the Lord sendeth rain upon the earth.

Elijah was hungry asked her to make a little cake out of what she had and make the rest for herself and her son unlike the crooks of today who like the rulers of the temple in the time of Jesus have no conscience and would have taken everything the poor woman had even when they don't need it.

Elijah was a needy man and got the required help from a kind hearted widow who also got blessed in the process. Unlike your full pastors who like the grave never seem to have enough. That is greed and covetousness in case you don't know and that is what this thread seeks to expose and correct.

There are 2 schools of thought to this:

- The miracles are fake/ stage-managed
- They are wrought by evil powers.

When school one has been refuted they jump to school two. (They- Dogs!)

Has the "lawless one" arrived?

How could Peter, John and co discern if Paul was the prophesied "lawless one", after all he performed alot of signs and wonders?

I put it to you that there is a greater probability we would find more fake christians and evilworkers amongst those who do not have the necessary signs that Jesus said should follow those that believe than otherwise. Or is Satan more powerful than God?

Jesus called himself The Resurrection thereby letting us know that The resurrection is not a day or an event but a Person. That is why whenever he showed up at any funeral it changed to a celebration. He specializes in raising dead things (Dead cells, dead bones, health, Bodies etc.) So if Jesus is present at your gatherings these things ought to be happening regularly.

Since they don't, we can safely conclude that Jesus is never at any of such gatherings. What a gathering!

How many weeks did the lame man at the beautiful gate spend at 'the healing school' before he got healed?

Of course the miracles you tout are fake like Jack Coe and Peter Poppof before you. So many false christs and false prophets like those you promote are already here and Christ warned us before hand

Matthew 24:4-5, 11, 24 KJV
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. [5] For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. [11] And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. [24] For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The big one hasnt come yet but your heroes are the puppets preparing the ground for his emergence. Even Peter had to deal with some of the sorcerers claiming miraculous power like those you promote today

Acts 8:9 KJV
But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:

Paul's arrival was validated by Ananias the Jew and of course the miracles wrought through him were real and true unlike the healing school scams of today. Also the man could have profited nicely from it if he wasnt called and if he so desired after all your daddies are trying to outdo each other in the hedonism and materialism departments with the cash they rake in from their rackets.

God still does miracles and doesn't need a charlatan's help to tell the world that

You should have gone to heaven immediately you got saved. Why are you still here? I mean, it is this type of selfish mentality that should be done away with in Christianity. One man died for all so that they that live should live for others and not for themselves. What have you done about the sick and poor around you (assuming you are not one of them)?

See the mentality of a Christian who knows God is sovereign over his life and desires.

Romans 14:8 KJV
For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

1 Thessalonians 5:10-11 KJV
Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. [11] Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

In life or death, God takes glory every time. Whenever he says its time, no mortal can argue, not even you.

Also we know it's part of the 'Christianese' you speak that make you tout yourself as having arrived. We might never know if you beg for a living. This is a faceless forum and no one's status can be verified. Just keep your 'riches' in that little obscure corner of NL where you are. You might not be worthy enough to lace the shoes of those you chat with here so let us rest.

Thank you for telling us about contentment but your version is garnished with self. I am kingdom minded- I give for the expansion of God's kingdom on earth via evangelism: TV, Radio, Internet etc., I give to the poor as well and I am prospering on all sides without even praying for it. The money that you worship I treat like exactly what it is- my slave. They don't print bibles with the blood of Jesus- they are printed with money!

Please be satisfied with only your food and shelter and maybe for those of your immediate family. You are such a godly christian.

No one I know here has said money is bad. The issue has and will always be the greed, covetousness, insatiability and discontent being propagated under the guise of Christianity.

You are the slave to money when you think having plenty money validates not only your Christianity but also your life on earth. There are many rich miserable people and an African proverb says poverty has been destroyed in the life of a man who can afford food, shelter and raiment. That's the guarantee Christ gave in scriptures. Any thing more is jara and signifies nothing.

If you give to the poor, Praise the Lord for you. That's what we hope you remember to do instead of the showmanship and obscene arrogance and flamboyance going on in Christiandom today.

I will tell you what deceitful philosophy is as well as "elemental spirits of the world". It is any teaching that glorifies worldly principles over God's word. "Scientific attachment of detached ears, artificial eyes and so on is what Jesus meant by Believers will do greater miracles than he". We can prosper anyhow we like without God, he has nothing to do with it. We can call ourselves any names we like; say what we feel like saying irrespective of what God's word says;Christians can fall sick anyhow they choose- it is normal; Jesus didn't die for our diseases etc.

You make reference to Paul and Jude but these 2 will deny you when the time comes. Paul is the one who warned us about dogs that speak evil against authorities- Paul disrespected the high priest once and as soon as he was informed about the man's status he quickly apologized and gave a reason for doing so (Go and find out what his reason was). Jude taught us about how archangel Micheal couldn't disrespect even Satan while "contending" for the body of Moses. He respected the higher authority Satan had at the time.

Whether your cause is just or not God expects you to follow due process.

Of course the high priest Paul insulted had as much authority as the governor of your state and you wouldn't insult him if you're before him. There was nothing spiritual about him, the position of high priest had been politicised long before Paul met him.

Its a different kettle of fish when a crook claims immunity because he can afford to buy a bible, wear a suit and have weak minded people call him 'daddy in the lord'

Only a thief will collect from the poor in the name of the Lord's work while he has millions and billions lying fallow in his own personal account or is he forbidden from following in the spirit of the widows mite?

There are true and honest pastors and there are mere crooks calling themselves pastors

I believe any one who can use his tongue to count his teeth should be able to answer such now.

Of course we know the dogs. They are the ones being exposed on this thread.

therealMcCain: Matt25:40-45
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me

God bless you for this scripture. You have to wonder why our rich mega churches that seek every avenue to display and boast about their riches never take the time to emphasize this express message from Christ himself to their members. Its so important to him that he attached eternity to it. See John explain it

1 John 3:17 KJV
But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

1 John 4:20 KJV
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?


If you do not give out of love, then you're simply not a child of God. Simple.

Proverbs 28:27
He that giveth unto the poor shall not lack: but he that hideth his eyes shall have many a curse

Proverbs 22:22
22 Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
23 For the LORD will plead their cause, and spoil the soul of those that spoiled them

Proverbs21:13
13 Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard

Psalms 41:1-4
1 Blessed is he that considereth the poor: the LORD will deliver him in time of trouble.
2 The LORD will preserve him, and keep him alive; and he shall be blessed upon the earth: and thou wilt not deliver him unto the will of his enemies.
3 The LORD will strengthen him upon the bed of languishing: thou wilt make all his bed in his sickness

my question is: the Christian who decides to act on the above scriptures not becos of Gods love but becos he doesn't want the bad things spoken in them to happen to him, will he get the promises/blessings attached to this scriptures

Note:
1.no other conditions were attached, so if you do this, you get this or this will happen
2.the proverbs & psalms scriptures covers both believers & unbelievers

pls I know the motive for a Christian to give ought to be out of love & nothing else but should a Christian give based on the promises/outcome of the above scriptures, will he/she get what was promised??

See the first chapter of proverbs

Proverbs 1:1-4 KJV
The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel; [2] To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding; [3] To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity; [4] To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.

The wise king was only giving words of wisdom to humanity on how to have a productive life. The hindus have even had it coded in their law of karma 1000 years before solomon penned his proverbs. You even said rightly that it applies to both believers and non believers. If you treat people well, particularly the needy, you can expect good yourself. Even the golden rule spoken by Christ affirms this

Matthew 7:12 KJV
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

He even explained that its what all the law of Moses and the prophets were about.

You might get blessings in your life but not because God is happy with you or because he is related to you, it'll simply be because he's merciful

Matthew 5:45 KJV
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Any 'blessing' you get as a wicked sinister giver is out of God's mercy which he shares to the world. Just count yourself lucky.

Actually, the dogs are those who give to the poor for reasons other than altruistic considerations. God is love and if you're naming the name of Christ, every act of yours should be from love. The Christians in acts 2&4 show us this. They gave from a heart of love yo meet the Real Needs of less privileged among them . Mercenaries and dogs will of course be blinded to this true and commendable acts. They only give then buy a calculator to start calculating returns.

Also, every collection Paul requested from the churches were strictly for the poor and needy. Read the following scriptures to confirm

Acts 11:29-30, Rom 15:24-27, 1Cor 16:1-3, 2Cor 9:1-13, Gal 2:10

Money, materials in the new testament always flowed from those who have to those who need. Any other style is against the principle the early church practiced, it's against the lifestyle of Christ and its against simple morality.

See another advice from Solomon

Proverbs 22:16 KJV
He that oppresseth the poor to increase his riches, and he that giveth to the rich, shall surely come to want.

Its only a dog and a thief that will tell the poor to give to the rich.

WHEN YOU GIVE TO THE NEEDY, YOU'RE ACTUALLY PUTTING GOD FIRST IN YOUR LIFE. (Matt 25:35-45)

God bless you plenty bro

nannymcphee: This is not a lie please, this disclaimer is for people who watch or know them via the media, Internet, tv etc

Very true because of your reason below.

The reason being certain people duplicate their media pages & solicit for funds, every major ministry has such disclaimer too

@the bolded. God bless you. The bolded is the only reason and it makes perfect sense because if someone is scammed in the process of doing business with you, the likely hood of them coming back to you will reduce. Ask banks and other companies in the service industry.

Though people like apostle Suleiman devotes at least 5mins of his 30minute programme on ACBN to request and plead for seeds (infact the last time I watched him, he needed 500million as God had mandated him to save a billion souls worldwide). Watch ACBN which concentrates on ministries in Nigeria and Ghana to see hustlers merchandising Christianity. Not to even mention folks like Benny hinn, Rod Parsley, Creflo Dollar and other big foreign ministries.

It doesn't mean they don't talk about sowing seeds in their churches. To buttress my point, have u heard bishop oyedepo or pst Chris, soliciting for funds on Facebook or ur local tv?

@the bolded, God bless you again. In fact the entire prosperity gospel survives on 'seed faith' preaching and money donations to 'churches' and this is the point I was interested in making.

You only find that within their service as explained by one of the posters

Very correct. YOU FIND IT EVERY DAY THEY HAVE A SERVICE

Thanks for shedding more light on this issue and clearing the grey areas. My issue was with the picture being painted that they don't even request seeds from their members.

Image123: have the last say, you deserve it.

Thank you

Image123: Beat it abeg.
Also, remember this is a forum. i can help re-channel aimlessness to productivity, you now understand i'm sure.

Rechannel this thread?? Of course you've tried every ignominious trick in your arsenal to do that but it just refuses to go your way. I'm sorry to disappoint you again, this thread has gone beyond your ability to redirect, rechannel or derail.

Meanwhile, if you like, keep wandering aimlessly on a thread you so passionately despise and label 'aimless'. The joke's fully on you.

If it doesn't fly past your ego, i'll give you a parable.
Psalms 72:18 Blessed be the LORD God, the God of Israel, who only doeth wondrous things.

Christian X said it is ONLY God that does wondrous things, nobody else. He of course brings a couple of passages to pad his doctrines and scorn others.
Christian Y said it is God does ONLY wondrous things, nothing else. He of course brings a couple of passages to pad his doctrines and scorn others.
Christian Z said God to do wondrous things in his life and gets that.
go figure

I guess this part of your post applies firmly to you since your favourite pastime is twisting and bending scriptures out of shape. Also with your penchant for playing the ostrich, I implore you to make use of your own advice before dishing them out.

If only you understand half of the scriptures you put out, I guess you'll find some peace.

Image123: lol, in all of God's grace, i probably made sense of the passage by His Holy Spirit long time ago. You're one funny bunch.

Pls keep up the sense making. Its good for your well being

Still hoping to read the relevance of this thread to the everyday christian here in Nigeria. All the reference to fossils and almost dead men or largely unknown are AT BEST beating about the bush with a capital A on aimless.

That puts you on the most aimless quest I've ever come across. You claim a thread is aimless yet your itchy fingers keep betraying you into the fray of an 'aimless' thread. You need help my friend. Very serious help

Image123: Oh if you're speaking of Oyedepo tongue in cheek, i take him as a believer and i take you as one too. Of course, i do not believe your word above his, there is a process for that. i hope you understand this scriptural basics?
On contentment, maybe next time you can quote the whole chapter or book so that it is not a partial quote and that way, we all get the context.

It makes no difference what you chose to believe. My position or yours won't change the reality on ground and surely won't stop all LFC ministers from asking, soliciting and cajoling members to sow seeds next Sunday service.

See the continuation of the scripture I quoted earlier

1 Timothy 6:9-11 KJV
But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. [10] For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. [11] But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

Hope this enables you make sense of it now?

Image123: That's correct i suppose, if they are lying that is.

Of course the particular mog you quoted told a blatant lie.

Also Paul didn't let it go without saying. For instance, there are genuine christians that are contented with mediocrity, some are contented with sickness, some are contented with poverty, others are contented with a life without victory over sin.

See the scripture you quoted partially

1 Timothy 6:6-8 KJV
But godliness with contentment is great gain. [7] For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. [8] And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

When Paul mentioned contentment, he said it with the knowledge that we all came naked and empty with nothing and will go back naked, empty and surely carry nothing out. No matter how rich, healthy or poor and sick you are, you'll not go back with wealth or neither will you go with poverty or sickness because your physical body knows nothing anymore

I hope you believe him

Image123: What one is contented with also matters, contentment WITH godliness is great gain.

That should go without saying I would assume.

If the popular mog's know and believe this, they won't be lying on Facebook that they don't ask for seeds or donations when the reality in their churches is that they routinely ask, cajole, encourage and subtly threaten folks to sow seeds and pay money into their accounts.

DrummaBoy: @Candour

Walahi you don' waka sha.

My bro, no be small thing o. The desperate search for 'solutions' to 'problems' can push a man to extremes and places he never imagined.

'A Christian contented is a Christian victorious' is the most important lesson I learnt through it all.

Image123: that's interesting.

It is. I can assure you that if you pay a visit to any LFC branch this Sunday, you'll hear the minister in charge of offerings (most times, the branch pastor's wife) remind everyone of their vows, pledges, seeds, CUP partnership offering and other 'kingdom investments'.

It will be very strange indeed if you fail to hear this particular announcement.

Image123: No i'm not their spokesperson. https://facebook.com/davidoyedepoministries/posts/862849413757380

It is posted to bring AGAIN proof that this thread is largely exaggerated.

What I find distasteful and outrightly childish about our mega churches and the flamboyant G.O's is their penchant for childish lies and falsehood. I had thought to dismiss your first post on this issue as borne out of ignorance but since you brought up an 'official denial' of the obvious, I think its right to put the records straight and tell you plainly that what you quoted from their Facebook page is a big lie.

The bank I used to work for had a cash pickup arrangement with LFC between 2003 & 2006 and I was the officer in charge of this arrangement(didn't know I would later become a member myself). In addition to tithes and offerings, we routinely picked donations, seeds (yes, envelopes clearly marked 'seed faith') etc addressed to CUP (covenant university project) and Bishop David Oyedepo's account with my bank. Even after we stopped the cash pick up arrangement with them (due to their arrogance and very ungentlemanly behaviour), we routinely attended to folks who came to our banking halls to pay directly into these accounts still domiciled with us. The funny part is that people still paid into CUP aaccount uptil I left the bank and this was years after the take off of operations of the university.

I became a member in 2010 and during WOFBI, the account number of Oyedepo was circulated by the pastors who lectured us on the need to sow into such fertile ground. In fact one particular pastor bragged that he always paid huge money into 'papa's' account religiously every month all in a bid to encourage us to do likewise. We were also encouraged to sow into any project the church was undertaking and we were even told how 'papa' sowed into Goshen city auditorium to the tune of 10,000 seats as he too 'didn't want to miss out of the blessing' coming thereby and any one of us who didn't sow then would be missing out.

I was in LFC for almost 3years and I heard about seed sowing into the church almost every Sunday and reminders of sowing into the life of the 'prophet' regularly so I wonder why they feel compelled to lie about it.

Pray God to help our mog become more truthful