You are aware the women come in more varieties than "white" and "african american"?
More forms of cultural expression, . . I'm not trying to "convert" you, but you don't sound aware.

There are Asians, Latinas, EastEuros, and on and on, oh yea, and AFRICANS. Funny how you forgot Africans since you are one. . .you are one right?

Aw, don't get me wrong Efani, I've been to your part of Conn. my couzins were raised out there so your views don't shock or offend me at all. I just hope -- white girl or not -- that you get to see more of the world & more of life.

Oic. But I was asking about the "kids" comment.

I would like to know why White Men Love Black Women!

I guess the pleasure is wrapped in the mystery.

Shokoloko:

The good thing about interracial marriages is that the mixed children turn out more beautiful than both black and white.

That's your own opinion. You're entitled to it, but it's not a categorical fact.

Cathian:

All children are beautiful,

Well said.

@Hero

Hmmm, I just reread your posts and maybe you're trying to so how a person can't use the worst case scenario or "least common denominator" to denote or generalize a culture especially when that scenario is present w/in many cultures in a geographic and/or political region.

Was that your point?

I'm not guilty of that generalization but I took the bait on the post huh?

Was that your point?

@Ninetofive
Steve Harvey, a typical Umuahia face? I don't think so. He's . . .

If a nation is overtly corrupt, it's so because it's people have no real desire to change it and are culturally ingrained to it; or in other words such an ailment has become or has always been of norm to them, and thus they have no real understanding of how such actions--- small and large--- effects their greater view to the world at large.

@Hero
This statement can not possibly be true b/c Nigerian corruption is supported by the Western power structure! Think: Would there be "Nigerian corruption" if Biafra had been formed? Who stocked the "Nigerian army", mercenaries, air force? THE BRITISH! Who refused to recognize Biafra or be her ally? All Western powers, save France & Israel.

Nigeria just ended miltiary rule & all the while who bankrolled her? Who? THE WEST! It was not "our cultures" money in their pocket though it was our resources they were selling. If the West (i.e. your culture) is so against corruption then why feed it? So, while I recognize that are offended if you want to offend others in turn, please provide a legitimate example.

p.s. I'm being overly kind by not mentioning that Naija has a multitude of cultures which can not & should not be collapsed.

@Izoneb
It was the whole package that made me laugh.

Sista:

I do have to point that out and I did and I will keep pointing that out as long as Nigerians keep saying that black Americans do not help them. Civil rights helped Nigerians and African Americans who helped other Nigerians get their papers helped Nigerians.

Ok. Nothing wrong with repitition.

If this is not what you mean, tell me what you mean?

I agree w/ you. Civil rights has benefited all people of color despite origin.

Nigerians do it all the time especially in nairaland. I would not be making this up.

I'm mean to say that I don't hear anyone say this in day-to-day life. I don't take NL too seriously b/c we all know that all sorts of weirdos & wannabes come online to act out.

White people are in the position to help anyone sense most of them financially benefited from colonization and slavery. How about that, the same people who put your in poverty now pose as the angel that helps you.

Your latter sentence raises a good point, and while we recognize that white people have profitted from economic colonization & slavery it does not stop us from benefiting from them. It's not as though it's "payback" b/c it doesn't come close. However, I never said the "helpful" white people were those in the position to help. Maybe they inconvienced themselves etc.

Now this contradicts what you said here

Wasn't trying to contradict myself. I thought you meant "help" in the personal, face to face sense. In terms of benefiting from civil rights, yes they helped.

I meant Nigerians, aren't Nigerians usually born in Nigeria?

Yes, most are born in Naija, some are born abroad. (Going back to your original question I think that Nigerians are more interested in helping Nigerians than African Americans at this point. But, not b/c of any contempt but b/c they do not live that culture and we do have pressing problems in Nigeria.

Behaves? And what behave require?

I thought you might hone in on this word. Let me say it differently, a peron needn't behave but remember years ago when that whtie boy got caned in Cambodia & it sparked an international bruhaha, well in Naija there won't be any bruhaha, you'll have to sleep in the bed you makes. When ppl act out & then cry (b/c a prostititue stole their stuff blah blah, they got robbed acting dumb blah blah they got kidnapped blah blah) I'm don't well up w/ tears. Maybe it's just me. . .

Help does not necessarily mean a job. I am talking about needing a place to stay or needing a family to connect with.

Yes that's what I meant exactly. And fromwhat I understand this was not provided by African Americans in mass (typically).

You are right about that but i am talking about do AA's have to take on the views and ways of Nigerians in order to be accepted as equals in Nigeria, or would it ever be possible for an AA to be accepted as an equal to a Nigerian.

I don't think they have to take on the views of Nigerians. I think Nigerians are actually more tolerate than people give us credit for. If you're not in anyone's face they won't bug you whether they feel you or not.

You changed it from your uncle to someone you know but any way.

The change was intentional OBVIOUSLY. Why? b/c (a) I don't want to hear any personal nonsense w/ people saying "you're uncle, your uncle" (b) I forgot that Nairaland people don't know my govt name & (c) My uncle wouldn't appreciate me relating the story. Why did you feel the need to highlight this when I changed it so that me relation would not be highlighted? *eye roll*

I have to point something out to you though. Your uncle would not have been able to come to the US if it was not for AA fighting for civil rights. When AA's fought for civil rights, they fought for everyone, even people who were not black. Any foreigner of color who comes to America to benefit is due to AA's fighting civil rights.

No, you don't have to point that out. Everyone knows this already. No one is disputing this etc.

The only way a foreigner could get into America before civil rights was only if they were doing something for the US.

Not exactly true but the point isn't worth debating (on this thread).

I need to break this up a little . . .

My thing is your uncle was able to do better with the help of American blacks and yet Nigerian people who come here, they talk bad about African Americans

Maybe some people do, but neither me or "someone I know" do at all. "Someone I know" doesn't talk about black people at all. I keep trying to tell people it's not in our culture to really give about people who are not-us. Why gossip 'bout people you don't know?

. . . and then go back to Nigeria to live good after getting help from black Americans.

Historically black Americans have NOT helped Africans! I can ask anyone in my family, community, church & it's the same song; Black Americans don't want to be bothered w/ us. It was actually white people who helped w/ "surprise vitals" be it registration, apts, doctors, interviews etc all the way up through the 1990s. I think there's prolly been a shift since 1998, but it hasn't trickled down to the youth. Btw, my friend's father came to the US from Jamacia in the 70s & he tells the same story. (Bob Marley also had similar experiences.) Summary: This information is patently false.

Wheather Nigerians admit to it or not. It was the blood of AA's that was shed for civil rights. Again, When AA's fought for civil rights, they fought for everyone no matter the color. That means that any foreigner who comes to America to benefit from America is all due to the blood of AA's.

No one is suggesting that African Americans didn't fight for civil rights or that we do not benefit from said rights.

I don't believe that Nigeria is even interested in helping an AA out in the least bit.

Nigeria? The country? The country "Nigerian" isn't interested in helping Nigerians so don't feel bad etc. Or did you mean Nigerians?

Nigerians have been known for saying that AA's have no home.

Who? Which Nigerians? Who do you hang with? I must ask, b/c I never heard anyone say that before I logged onto Nairaland nearly 9 months ago. And just so you know, I stay down & in 22 years of being in the community, I never heard any "home" biz. We think America is their home.

Let's say this is true. America is the only place they know of as home and no one has the right to dispute that. Let's say though that an AA wanted to come to Nigeria to get some help, would he or she be allowed to?

Who's stopping him/her? Nigerians/Africans would welcome anyone into Nigeria/Africa as along as he/she behaves.

Or would he or she be able to get help?

Why would anyone who needs "help" immigrate? That doesn't make sense. People immigrate when the (a) don't need help and/or (b) already have a support network in place. Lagos is not LA, you're not going to go to the free clinic or register with the local police. Also Nigerians live w/ their people. We don't go out alone so to speak. So, no if you don't have people/helpful employer/previously established relationship you won't get help.

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but that question makes no sense. Would you go to Mexico to ask strangers for "help"?

Would he or she have to assimilate into becoming fully Nigerian like, before he or she can be helped, if he or she is first accepted?

Who assimilates? Nigerians don't assimilate in the US, so why would an African American assimilate in Nigeria? I'm guessing this answer will not satisfy you but this is my lived experience. When I go to work everyday, go to the store, meet new people, they ask "Where are you from?" they say "You English is. . .". I've gotten the same comment about my mannerisms. People say, "Its doesn't make sense until I know you're Nigerian." Assimilation is when Jews get nose-jobs or Asian kids change their names to Tommy. No offense to either groups but I don't believe in reactive identities.

Sista:

Why can't they make a better life in Nigeria?

B/c of the political & economic situation. [Someone I know] came to the US & got his PhD here then went back to Naija to teach, but it was just too dangerous b/c of the ideas -- if you are not popular w/ the state then you could die. So should he die? Or should he live and help his family? It's a hard decision to make. No one who hasn't made it should judge it.

Naijas do live in a "commune" or whatever. Know folks been here +30 years & they made it w/o B.A. b/c they had to. No one was helping them. They helped each other.

What?

You said that Africans can't live in a "commune". I'm saying they can & they do. For better or worse.

@Setin
You are still yourself? Aha, I understand what you mean exactly. God Bless You.

Almost forget,

(f) The majority of Nigerians are in Nigeria. People immigrate to have better lives not to strip their identities or cultures. Also, many (a majority) of Naijas in the US don't want to "die here" as they say. They're trying to see their kiddies t/o school at least, and then they'll reevaluate. I for one, I'm trying to book out too . .

This reads like ya'll are talking in circles.

Let me play the unpopular arbitrator & say:

(a) A different culture is not a lesser culture or said differently, if someone says a culture is "not the same" that is not necessarily a put down.

(b) Naijas do live in a "commune" or whatever. Know folks been here +30 years & they made it w/o B.A. b/c they had to. No one was helping them. They helped each other.

(c) Some people "blend in", some don't. Neither is a crime.

(d) Not all or even a majority of Nigerian marriages are held together by "tradition". Just b/c you don't know why a man/woman would stick w/ their spouse doesn't mean it's wrong. (I know people who married the person their family most hated & are loving that person.)

(e) Not all Americans are monogamous, married or not.

nico:

are u sure?

Positive.

Hmmm, the other woman was another Irish woman? It gets curiouser & curiouser. . .

Steph, I'm glad you made the decision to fly solo. It reinforces that you are strong enough to leave a man! And "Be bad on your own!" But seriously, continue to take time for yourself and don't rush into anything!

Celebrate yourself on anniversary. Consider your departure from that a man as a mitzvah! You never know what (emotional) pain he had in store for your future. You're better off.

My bad Uju, kinda forgot that this was your thread & the original intent. Sorry, o!

@Shokoloko
Oh, so they're in Nigeria? Well I hold no judgement. If a child gets adopted who am I to judge.

Wait they can have kids but want to adopt? Wanting to get adopt isn't a bad thing etc.

Shokoloko:

Germanlady
are these mixed race kids up for adoption. my sis wants to adopt some mixed race kids; her guy is white and there are no mixed race kids in nigeria for adoption. she's tried ethiopia (there are mixed ones) but adoption over there is such a looong process

Why doesn't she just adopt a black kid? White people adopt black children all the time. Why is your sister or her guy different?

(No offense intended.)

@Nico
That's an old wives tale. It's named "coca" b/c it contains part of the coco plant which is what chocolate (or is it coffee?) is made from. I promise, no cocaine included. Hell, if it had cocaine, it'd be more expensive.

Seun:

Private schools have the right to admit whoever they want to admit if the person is willing to pay.

They certainly have the "right" but it's not their inclination. Why? b/c private schools charge (ridiculously) high tuition & justify this by claiming a "better" education & a "better" educational community. That "better community" is considered to a diverse one in America & the rest of your beloved West.

Yes, yes, & yes. You're so right. I won't add another word.

@Topic in regards to Hero's post

Well Mochafella was right but that is the tip of the iceberg when compared with what you ladies are talking about. I think it's important to understand that in Nigeria a child follows his/her father's tradition 99% of the time. So the anxiety/double standard regarding A.A/African (or CA) marriage is the fear or belief that African Americans do not have a valid and/or healthy and/or congruent and/or "good enough" culture. But that is the worst case scenario. The "best" case scenario is that it's not in our culture to marry outside the culture, and children will follow the father's tradition, be named the father's ethnic names etc. etc.

There's also a healthy does of ignorance here. I for one have relatives who think "all Americans" (regardless of race) marry at least 3 times. So they disapprove of marriage to Americans for "Christian" reasons.

@Sista
Your "king hypothese" was provacative & I see where you're coming from. But in regards to "controlling women" I think issues of control are different in US (west) and Africa. What I mean is, men do not have absolute control over lives or themselves. We still live in communities, with our kindred, even the city dwellers. So a man does not defy his the elders, his patriarch etc. He may relish the "control" he has over his wife but the wife doesn't trip on it b/c in our soceity few ppl live w/o "superiors". Even as a small child you learn not to defy/quarrell w/ older siblings/cousins b/c that'll earn you a beating from your parents even if you're right.

So if a man thinks he's in control and the wife never cares and/or aknowledges he's in control, is he? I thinks it's a question of perspective. But then when men come to the US, it becomes important for them to stomp around & talk about how powerful they are "back home" b/c some obviously lack power here & are insecure about it. I think these men are trying to convince themselves and others about something (i.e. selling dreams).

"We" also think that women assimilate into the man's family. (This one of the concepts behind bride price, a tradition which is still observed.) So if an A.A. women marries an Igbo man, then it's +1 Igbo, but if a Igbo woman marries an A.A. man, it's -1 Igbo plus any children she'll have. It's a population anxiety born from a place where great numbers often means great power (protection).

@Drusilla
Well you're right to say that African women have to hustle to make ends meet the same as men. I don't know about the prostitution aspect. I've never seen the film but in African noir female prostitution is used to symbolize the ultimate degradation. (Like in The Joys of Motherhood, the 2nd wife decides to become a prostitute though she doesn't go t/o w/ it.) I'm not saying that married women or women w/ children don't prostitute themselves only that I don't know how widespread it is. (It may be more common among unmarried young women who want to help their families but can't find proper jobs and/or are still in school. That's been mentioned alot on NL.)

As for issues surrounding sexuality*, I think it's hard to know coming from a Western perspective (I'm talking bout myself here too) b/c in the West female sexuality is all about bouncing breasts, long hair, big dicks, & orgams. I have nothing against any of these things but it's not how Africans traditionally measured sexuality. For instance, on a continent full of black men, who's anxious to measure? Also, women go bare chested b/c breasts aren't errongenous zones (traditionally).

Back to your point about African women having to hustle, our bodies function as work machines. Sexuality isn't the point. I for one, think all groups of people are confused about sexuality. You have some who think that female sexuality/satisfaction does not exist while others who think it's a byproduct of money & power.

But this body functionality also informs this issue b/c one anxiety is that if an African woman marries an A.A man she will not share her money w/ the wider family (which many ppl still do). Regardless of who an African man marries, the decision to share, help out or be stingy is seen as his own but b/c of how we think about gender relations, ppl will blame the A.A. man so the double standard is seen as "solving" that problem before it occurs.

*Normalized rape is a (growing) problem. I wish I could say more about this but men & women have to step up to the plate here. (I have lots of hope & encouragement that men of this generation are gonna do their part.) Basically, we do have to start groups & talk about it but it'll have to be done in a way that the communities can accept & be supportive of. I don't know if a town hall meeting would help b/c it's not our style to talk about things like that in those settings.

@Drusilla
Good post. And you're right about Osu & other 'ne'er do wells' welcoming whites. What else could they do given their then-living situation. The best we can do is move forward, learn from this, make it history (as in end it), and taken longer strides into the future.

iice:

I read recently on NMBC i think that this divorce thing is just a stunt on whitney's part to get back bobby (rumour says he has been cheating on her) Please tell me this is not true!

That's funny b/c Bobby has always cheated on Whitney. The rumor would be if the gossips called him 'faithful'.

Donzman, hmmmm, I can't question your experience. However, you are talking about one situation. What about Christians who discriminate in general? My point is that practicing Christians are capable of discrimination. Discriminating or not is a function of the individual.

Good example JosBoy4Life.

Nia, you raised some great points. Appreciate the link. Thanks.

Donzman I categorically disagree. We needn't get into a drawn out argument about it, but if Christianity has brought light, why do Christian Igbo people hate/discriminate on "Osu" and many many others.

Islam is like Christianity. It teaches the same things. It is men who pervert the religion just like Christians claim to be Christians but don't learn from the Gospels.

Odeku, men say anything & everything to dismiss women when they have valid points. You've just shown that you are such a man. But it is to my benefit as I will no longer take the time to read or respond to your rubbish again.

Ok, so before we were in darkness now we're bathed in light?

Black people? White people too? Is that the logical conclusion?

B/c to me the statement just sounds like a bunch of fat cats padding their egos by reppin' their organization. . .

. . .The org. just happens to be The Church but that doesn't necessarily mean they've done God's work.