₦airaland Forum

The issue is about how some people maltreat their househelps.

Even if it is a minority of people that do this, it is a large enough minority for us as a society to feel uncomfortable about.

If there are stories of how some (or even a majority) of people treat their househelps fairly then we can applaud those people, but it shouldn't really detract from the issue which is the maltreatment of househelps on a scale that should make any society uncomfortable.

We should not have such low thresholds, even if only 25% of househelps are being maltreated, it is worthy of serious attention!

I just love Nairaland!

Poster seems to know what to do now, the subject of the post therefore appears resolved, however, the desire to do a victory dance keeps us going.

Poster, to be fair to you, we are all products of our environment. However, I can see that you have a good heart and even though friends and family didn't want you to contribute, you probably wanted a second opinion which is what brought you to Nairaland.

While my advice was to not let culture get in the way, I do appreciate the pressures of the culture we come from.

I wish you the best in whatever decision you make.

chaircover: Lets digress a little and lets open up another can of worms . . . .

Who made the women what they are today? I was on a thread recently and the guys were lamenting that all they did on their girlfriends was spend spend spend.

https://www.nairaland.com/920748/car-girlfriend-which-more-expensive

Why I ask? Why must you pay for their Brazillian weave, Blackberry phones and Blackberry BIS subscriptions? Why must you pay for their school fees, handouts and project costs? What are their parents doing?

Its all well and good, doing all that but dont you think that the average Nigerian girl will now think that this is the norm and therefore continue to expect it? and the day that you dont give kata kata will happen.

I had a thriving "Yaba bend down" = "my uncle sent me this from the UK to sell" business that I ran in school to supplement what my parents gave me; and I hardly went home cos I didn't need their money or any mans money for that matter.

I beleive that when guys start offering other qualities other than money, you will start attracting women who desire the other qualities that you may have apart from the money you want to throw around.

Haha! The matter can never be over until it has been established that it's men's fault! I love it.

Sugardiva: I see ur point but thats not entirely true. I live and rent houses in Nigeria and You CAN rent houses for one year. In Lagos as a matter of fact the law requires the lanlord to collect only six months rent except both parties agree otherwise (altho im not certain the lanlords comply wit that law.) The point is all of what we're saying is just assumptions since we were not there with the OP HTB and so neither u nor i can be entirely sure of if it was actually a true emergency or not so i cant agree with u on that.

Fair enough. Following that logic, I guess you can't disagree either then.
We'll leave it at that. Let everyone make the assumption that suits their argument.

Sugardiva: OP i think ur HTB may not be very good with financial planing to get into this dilemma. He knew his rent was expiring in sept and then fixed a wedding in august but only made financial provision for one of those events. So u can try to complement him by helping him with planning your finances.

A lot of people have already explained how the rental market works in Nigeria. From what we see, this was a genuine emergency. If your rent expires in a house you're already in, you just renew it for an additional year, so it's feasible he had set aside that renewal money.

However, he had to move out and get a new apartment which would normally require 2 to 3 years advance rental payment + other agency costs. In addition, the poster mentioned some renovation he had to do to the new apartment. That's where the unexpected costs came in.

Please, please, please, let us agree that this was a genuine emergency that can happen to anyone.

If nothing else, this topic has really helped to bring out some traditional mindsets that many do not want to let go of.

As I've mentioned before, tradition is a function of time. Many of our traditions originated for practical reasons. Long after those practical issues have been resolved, we still carry on with the traditions just because it is our culture. I feel that any traditional practices that are unfair (including those that are unfair to women) or serve no practical purpose should die a natural death or be reduced to just ceremonial practices.

Personally I don't see anything wrong with a woman paying 80% of the wedding costs if that is their relative financial strength leading up to the wedding. My mind holds no such boundaries.

There are still some traditional practices that prevent women from inheriting property from their own fathers. Also there was a time it was almost taboo to marry outside of your tribe or race. It took some forward thinking and brave people to begin to break that mould and bring about social change.

We can look at this couple and decide that they don't have the characters to take that kind of step and that's fine. However, in principle, I would applaud any progressive and courageous couple who are happy to break the mould in an example like wedding costs.

Basing this just on principle without getting distracted about whether someone said "shebi" or not, I think it's perfectly ok for a woman to pay 80% (or whatever %) of the wedding costs if that is what the circumstances dictate. The only caveat is that the couple should have the character to deal with any regressive attitude their society may potentially throw at them, just like inter racial couples may have had to do generations ago.

My thoughts have already been expressed by the likes of Debosky, but I just want to write sha.

Culture and tradition are functions of time. You hold on to certain traditions because they are good, not just because they have been there for years.

Perhaps because I'm used to the concept of a woman's family contributing to weddings, I find it very strange that it's causing an issue. Even if it's 80%, if the husband had to spend the money in an emergency situation (and this does look like an emergency situation since my understanding of rent in Naija is that when moving to a new place you have to pay several years rent in advance, but if your current rent is expiring, you'll just have to pay the next year's rent) then she should be happy to help out even at 80%.

If you feel there'll be pressure from society coz you paid for your own wedding, then society doesn't need to know who paid. This is where discretion will protect you.

If you feel there'll be some future negative reaction from your husband coz you paid, then you shouldn't marry him.

The poverty is a choice mantra leads us to believe that over a billion people on this earth have chosen to be poor.

In fact some of them chose the worst forms of poverty by remaining in war torn or famine ravaged conditions with high infant mortality and low life expectancy.

UNBELIEVABLE!!!

I would urge all God fearing people to remove themselves from surroundings where a poor man feels more condemned than rich thieves, some of whom dine openly with the so called prosperity pastors.

They all sit in their special high chairs together spewing out words of false humility while lapping up all the adulation as if it is their source of life.

My greatest annoyance is at those who have completely set aside their moral compass in the name of the prosperity gospel.

Far from the church influencing the world, the system of the world has taken firm root in the church. It's all about "get rich or die trying".

People now go around singing "I'm so rich it doesn't make sense", or "I'm loaded" in church. If that is praise and worship, then it doesn't take a genius to figure out what they are praising and worshipping.

So much to say, so little time. In summary, there is a false revival going on. The boom in church attendance is down to people's desires to be rich, healthy and physically successful. It has nothing to do with their love for God. If a babalawo offered better returns, that's where they'll be.

Always warms my heart to read threads where women are praising their (mainly) Nigerian husbands. It counteracts all the negative stereotypes and male bashing prejudice.

As for me, my wife will be the best judge of whether I was supportive, but I think I was o! Walking through snow at night looking for fish & chips coz that's what wife was craving etc.

Hollande won the first round. He didn't "win Sarkozy". You don't win your opponent, you win a contest, game, prize etc.

ronkebp: @ I really do not want to blow my trumpet, but i married one of a kind, my hubby is so matured, so understanding, so accomodating, so LOVING, he has his own wahala ooo, but i think his parents did a fantastic job even though he is an orphan now, i don't think his parents would regret giving birth to him.

I have another friend, who confided in me and said Ronkeshi, "my husband is the best thing that has ever happened to me", they have been married for 7 years now, she has two kids (a boy and a girl) and this lady so much respects and loves this man....

I have another friend, who said she wakes up every morning kneeling down to greet her hubby and say " thank you for being the loving and caring person, thank you for being my hubby" (when she told me, i could not fathom it, i tried to picture the whole thing but i just couldn't understand) it dawned on me later that the men definitely would have done or are doing something good to the point that the women could boast about it in a very humble way.

Now do not get me started on others that are nothing to write home about.

Please keep blowing the trumpet! At first I used to get irritated when I read posts where women are being too rosy about their husbands, however, after witnessing the negative stereotypes that Nigerian men have been placed under, I rejoice everytime a woman comes on here to talk about how wonderful her (Nigerian) husband is.

In fact, we have 3 examples from just one post. Slowly but surely, many of those who have set prejudices against Nigerian men will begin to realise that there might be more good men out there than they originally thought.

Personal rant over!

Was soooo itching to craft a long response till I saw Onegai's responses, then I chilled.

Assertiveness is good and healthy on both sides for a relationship to work well. However, what TisaBone described in her original post is at best borderline aggression. A lot of short fused women with questionable temperaments excuse their behaviour by claiming it's assertive. I disagree.

A lot of relationships end and the women console themselves by saying "he wasn't man enough for me". The truth is, no sane minded man will willingly choose to live in a war zone. My advice to women, select your man carefully and once you get a good man, give him peace of mind at home and you're on to a winner!

Granted, there are always two sides to every story, but it is extremely disrespectful to men to keep suggesting that their side of the story includes violence or philandering.

It's sad to think that women, who have been the victims of a lot of stereotypes and prejudice, don't hesitate to mete out this same prejudice.

My guy, next time you're seeking advice don't leave out too many blanks on your side, otherwise some on here, by default, will believe you're a wife beating skirt chaser. It's sad but true.

Becalm: It is true the post talks about abusive men but the real problem lies with the nigerian society. Violence is deeply rooted and in many homes both husband and wife are culprits. Most husband beat their wives because the wife is weaker and defenseless. In the same manner many women beat their househelps/maid/nanny because they are defenseless as they wish to keep their jobs. The later happens more often than the former and nobody seems to take note of that. This shows that if the reverse were to be the case, most wives will beat their husband because there are cases of husband beaters especially when the woman enjoys a body size/strength advantage over the husband. There is a great need for education against violence in the society and should not be limited to men alone as many women do not realize that they are as guilty as men. (What a man can do a woman can do even better ). On a serious note, such education should start from parents as they bring up their young boys and girl, the law should also provide appropriate punishment for perpetrators of domestic violence (between couples) or (couples/househelps).

The most holistic response so far! Violence against women should be tackled as part of a larger project which seeks to protect the weak from the strong. Otherwise husbands will keep beating wives,(stronger) wives will keep beating husbands; ogas' and madams' will keep beating their househelps; policemen will keep beating innocent (or even guilty) citizens; military men will keep beating "bloody civilians" etc

I really empathise with the women that have suffered domestic violence, but in terms of finding a solution, it is impractical to single out just one group in a system that fails multiple groups and expect that there can be a sustainable protection of that group. We need a complete overhaul of the judicial and law enforement institutions.

I do agree, however, that domestic violence against wives should play a prominent role in this change as it is the more common and sustained category (i.e. a woman that stays gets beaten multiple times in her own home).

Bros, I feel you. To be brutally honest, no man (including me) has what it takes to fully satisfy a woman in all departments. The most important thing is for it to be evident that you're trying. There have been some good suggestions of simple things you can do e.g. sweet texts, roses etc. Sometimes when you guys wake up, just add the word "beautiful" to the end of your good morning, it works wonders.

She just wants to know that you think about her often, that is the koko of romance. If I were able to advise your wife, I'd say she too should show appreciation often. My wife would say to me "you're a good man" and it lets me know that all the things I'm doing are not going unnoticed. If there's too much complaining by the woman, a man can get fed up and resentful, especially a man that's really working hard like yourself.

On a serious note. Poster, next time you need directions, just ask another guy or someone who isn't a pretty (or even ordinary looking) young lady. Unless of course you're tall dark and handsome and you've just stepped out of a state of the art Benz, BMW, Audi etc (you get the picture).
In that case you can ask a pretty young lady and she may even offer to take you to the place.

Naija girls' anthem.

"Say it loud!
I'm a Naija girl, I'm rude and I'm proud!"

Claus, short for Colonel Claus Von Stauffenberg the German military officer who led the failed coup and assasination attempt against Hitler and was then executed by firing squad.

Made popular in the 2008 film Valkyrie starring Tom Cruise.

prince4lif: a lot of herbalist receive gifts from their clients after there problems has been solved and they enjoy the proceed, so why do we criticize a man of God if blessed by his congregation.

We've reached a new low when we justify a pastors practices by referencing herbalists!

At least Paul was clear about who his example was when he said "follow me as I follow Christ".

I hope our Nigerian sons are not over exposed to this negative stereotype about Nigerian men, lest it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

Marital infidelity is an unfortunate thing and the men that do it are definitely wrong. However, the silent part of this infidelity is the other woman. Where do these other women come from?

The social, cultural and economic factors in Nigeria certainly appears to exacerbate the problem. When a girl asks why a married man would step to her, the answer is that his moral compass allows him to AND he has been successful with a other girls just like her.

In that environment, if it's hard to find an honourable man, it must also be hard to find an honourable girl.

States actually need to be combined, ie, the number of states needs to reduce. A major problem in Nigeria is the cost of governance. With each state comes a governor, deputy governor, commissioners and hundreds of special assistants/advisers many of whom add no value.

Governance in Nigeria is all about chopping. That's why some people clamour for more states so that their own turn to chop can come around quicker.

Getting development to the people can be accomplished by reforming all levels of government, especially the local governments, not by creating even more states.

Poster, I feel you.

It's just the way things are. For some people gifts are a nice touch and reminds them that you're thinking about them. It's safe to say that gifts are important to your wife, so keep them flowing. However, you may decide to make them more thoughtful and less about money.

On the other hand, there are some people who aren't really into gifts. I believe you and I fit into this category. If my wife cooks me a nice meal on my birthday, that's enough for me.

Conclusion, if gifts form a big part of a partner's love language, then those gifts should continue. A lot of relationship practices don't follow logic, that's why we men take a longer time to really understand them.

dare2think:
Lol, that got me laughing hard! Now you are making me feel awkward for quoting such a beautiful line!

Seriously, the purpose of the UK law system is to act as a safeguarding mechanism against a history of women abuse. Honestly, the motives are genuine and responsible. However, just like any other policy, there will be some that will not benefit from such laws. Numerous hardworking Men have been negatively affected by such in ways that have relegated them to mental asylums.

An unfaithful wife with children for instance, have all the odds in her favour, to keep the house and the children ,with some change as well (with the woman bringing lovers to the same house). Cases like this is what I  believe sagamite and co are crying foul for! There seems to be no recourse for the jilted man who might have reached an agreement with his then wife to be a stay at home mom for the benefit of 'their' kids.

Domestic disputes are very complicated and requires a lot of emotionality. I subscribe to the law forcing the father pay money towards the children, and if it means the man paying for the rent his children are living in, its  fair. What is not fair is when the court dont put into considerations the earning capabilities of the man.

Whichever the case, the system is a lot better than 9ger where men have their ways and subject loads of women and kids to years of hardship. We all know this happen. As with the uk law, a lot of insincere women have abused the mechansim created to support them but what can men do? Nothing! but hope to be with a conscientious and respectable woman who will keep her dignity even when it all falls down.

In short, these laws are meant to safeguard against irresponsible men, unfortunately some responsible men have been caught
in-between.

I completely agree with the bolded bit. The laws in Naija leave women susceptible to too much abuse. A balancing act where one party doesn't have an unfair advantage over the other is the ideal.

Regarding the UK laws, one will only get sympathy from 2 groups of women:

1) those whose male relatives (brother, cousin, son) have been  negatively affected;
2) those who fall in love with (and even decide to marry) divorced men and can see first hand the financial strain imposed on those men.

^^^
There's no greater indictment of the divorce laws than the fact that a woman worth $100m can still claim a substantial amount from an ex-husband over and above his share of child rearing costs and compensation for her lost earnings.

queensmith:
your the one that started it, the payments still have to be relative- a man being kicked out of his home and paying double mortgages is paying more than a millionaire thats just trying to be smart.
sha sha- 2 million, 20million 2 very different amounts, it's not right. He should pay up immediately.

I started it?! Lol! Haven't heard that said to me since I was a kid. What exactly did I start?

^^^
To show you how completely foolish and useless the laws are, Jay Z still had to get a pre-nup with Beyonce, a woman who is already a millionaire.

Why does a man have to be put in that position? So even if you marry a rich woman, as long as you are richer than she is, she is still entitled to your money in a divorce? Na wa o!

queensmith:
^^ then you shouldnt be arguing against this womans case- it makes no sense for a rich man to pay the same alimony as a poor one. Simples!

I agree someone shouldnt be thrown into poverty as a result of divorce, thats tough ,but someone has to bare the cost and better the man than the public,

This is where the argument starts getting mixed up. Denying her the benefit of half his assets is not the same as saying he should pay her the same alimony as a poor man!

queensmith:
^^ fortunately for most of these posters you have to have money to do that. They have nothing to worry about.

It's funny you should say that, but it's actually the low to middle income guys that have the most to worry about. Imagine a low income guy having to pay two sets of rent/mortgage (one for the family house which he has been kicked out of and the other for his own accommodation).

The rich guy just suffers a bruised ego from having to forfeit some of his £millions. The poor guy on the other hand is just sent deeper into poverty.

oradee:
but then again,to the dude about to get hitched faster than most peeps, wld you honestly have ur wife sign a pre-nup now cos i believe u do pray to be wealthy someday.

Alot of our Naija men praise white/foreign women in dating and marriage. they claim they dont nag, not materialistic, and dont give the regular wahala native nigerian girls give.

so now that she has spent 15yrs with him and wants out with his cash, he now calls her gold digger while running from pillar to pole looknig for a way to save his money. (didnt he see those traits in her before marriage or was he carried away with the mentality that if its white,its gotta be right).

u men need to draw the line on ur double standards life in relation to local and foreign girls.
i might not know who wants out and what the reasons are behind it but then again our nigerian men should stop playing smart Bottom all the time, cos the end of ur sense is the beginning of another mans sense,

This has nothing to do with local and foreign girls. It has to do with the jurisdiction that's handling the divorce. Non-white women (including Africans) can and HAVE exercised their rights to such settlements before in the UK. Most are just not publicised because they don't involve £millions!

It's worth noting that most lawyers of unmarried high net worth individuals are actually advising them NOT to marry. Thus we can see that the greatest aversion to divorce laws comes from the law community itself!

However, I don't think the political machinery in the West has the stomach to redress this balance just yet. The direction of political correctness right now is towards more rights and benefits for women and no politician is brave enough to champion anything that would bring fewer rights/benefit to women. fathers4justice have been fighting for years now, but no one's really listening. With time one would hope that common sense prevails and the laws are re-balanced.

For me, the greatest eye opener was when I went to watch Saturday league footbal for under 15 boys. These young boys train like twice a week and then play league football every Saturday as well as being full time pupils in secondary school. My talent scout eye spotted at least one future premiership player (who would therefore earn £millions). The truth is that when that time for premiership football comes, he can be married to a girl for 1, 2, 5 or 10 years and if they divorce, she is entitled to a considerable chunk of that money even if the machinery that produced that money had already been set in place long before the girl came into the picture.

I'm not arguing against a reasonable upkeep for a spouse and children in the case of a divorce. However, law or no law, the integrity of someone who wants to be a millionaire off the back of someone else's sweat will always be called into question.

Like a couple of people have said, you can't put a value on the intangible roles a spouse plays. Why then do we try to do it in the event of a divorce?