₦airaland Forum

nlMediator:
No, you missed my point a little. In a particular congregation, not everybody is of the same level of reasonableness. There are educated and uneducated, smart and not so smart, trusting and not so trusting. In deciding what is reasonable, we don't start with the most reasonable folks. We use the average man in that community, not the Ph.D types like you. [This has nothing to do with the subjective standard].

Interesting that everybody is citing to and linking their discussions to the wikipedia article. Yet, all we hear is that wikipedia is useless. We need to make up our minds.

The facts of the case were similar to what I gave you. The court applied volenti non fit injuria to hold the native doctor not liable.

Individuals need to make up their minds and be consistent, but conclusions do not have to be unanimous. I referred to the "reasonable" principle in the Wikipedia article that YOU cited. I'm not sure how that has been translated into "everybody, citing and linking their discussions to the Wikipedia article" or advice about people needing to make up their minds about the quality of Wikipedia.

Presumably the native doctor was not liable, in a civil case, because the victim consented to the gunshot test. Brings us full circle to the question of whether the "witch" consented to being slapped.

I'm curious about the criminal element of the native doctor case though because surely that sort of manslaughter must still be a crime - somewhat similar to the euthanasia (mercy killing) laws in the UK, where it is still a crime even if the victim consented.

Enigma:
Interestingly, the courts do tend to apply a subjective standard and indeed the test would be what the particular victim would do. Clearly, this particular girl had not consented to being slapped ---- that is the key.

Touche.

nlMediator:
Thanks for your response. From the bolded, I see a different and better attitude from your initial response, which was to dismiss some of us as going off the deep end, so much so that it is impossible to have a reasoned dialogue on the issue. It may interest you that a court has made a decision on a case with similar facts to the bullet-proof example I gave. Certainly, the court could have argued that the victim consented to being tested but did not consent to being killed. But it did not. When you consent to certain things, you consent to some other things that logically flow or follow from it. You may have the option of exposing your bosom or not but when you are under pressure in public, that option is not really an option, even in the eyes of the law. And when you're rolling on the floor, smeared with other people's vomit, it sure does not look like what you would opt for. Certainly, you're a reasonable man and would not submit to some of these things. But the applicable standard is not what "you" would do. In fact, much of what we do in Christianity - including simple prayer - is considered unreasonable by many reasonable people. As one who has spent a lot of time with the "intellectual types", I know that for a fact.

What were the facts of that case and what was the court's final verdict (criminal or civil)?

The "reasonable" discussion stems from the explanations on the Wikipedia link that you pointed out. It's been highlighted because those are the considerations the legal world would apply, and it seems valid to discuss it based on the title of this thread.

"But the applicable standard is not what "you" would do" I actually disagree with this since I am also a Christian that attended a ministry similar to Oyedepo's for about 8 years. So the "we" in "what we do in Christianity" would include me as well.

nlMediator:
My brother, you're misrepresenting my position. I didn't say that being assaulted is to be expected in seeking spiritual help. This is not about spiritual help in generic terms, but a particular kind of spiritual help, namely deliverance. I've seen a number of deliverance sessions and things get rough sometimes. Even here on this forum, we've read of people being asked to expose their bosoms with pus oozing, rolling on dirt, etc. If people know that that's how things are done and voluntarily submit themsleves to that, they have no remedy in law. Now, there may be certain practices that cross the line and the perpetrator will be culpable as no reasonable person would be deemed to have consented, but that's not what I'm reading here: some of you seem to suggest that normal rules on assault apply all the time, thereby nullifying the volenti defense. If you have a moment, could you respond to this question: a guy goes to a native doctor to prepare a charm to make him bullet-proof. To test the charm, the native doctor shoots a gun at the guy, killing him. Do you think the victim's family can successfully sue? I'd appreciate your answer.

Your example seems to be a clear case of manslaughter and therefore a criminal offence that the native doctor can be jailed for. I'll admit I don't know how the civil case will be decided as the victim must have consented to the gun shot test.

Clearly the girl above did not consent to being slapped. You can see that she was shocked. People ASKED to expose their bosoms have the option to refuse. The girl was not asked whether she wanted to receive a hot slap! We have to agree to disagree here. I would class myself as a reasonable person and if I go up for any deliverance (which I would never do), I wouldn't expect to receive a slap.

I'm amazed at the opinions offered by nlMediator and desthan!

desthan, you conclude that going up to the altar for deliverance = "consenting to any method Oyedepo chooses"!

nlMediator, you conclude that being assaulted is a risk that a reasonable person should expect when they go and seek spiritual help.

If anyone actually takes the above conclusions to be valid, then clearly they are too far gone and one cannot expect any reasonable discussion to take place.

UNBELIEVABLE!!!

ceomike:
Oluwtosin Oyelowo a 25 year old Nigerian student at MUSC has been found dead. Reports says she jumped from bridge.

Water searches for Oyelowo by Mount Pleasant and Charleston police, as well as the U.S. Coast Guard, have not been successful in the days since the jumping was reported.


more: http://www.

May she RIP.
Wonder how the reporting got skewed though.

True talk jephiano!

The biometric exercise should be applauded. They should (and probably will) go a step further and prosecute those responsible for ghost workers, otherwise they'll keep looking for the next loop hole to exploit.

N1bn saved by the govt is N1bn lost by a group of people who won't give up in looking for other ways to replace that income unless they are dealt with.

Technically, bigamy is trying to have more than one legally recognised wife i.e. marrying multiple times through the registry process.

Many men in Nigeria accumulate their wives by just marrying the first one legally and then marrying the others traditionally. Technically, that method is not illegal, so the law was pretty usefless in the first place.

There are many other issues that women face in marriage that these law makers and law enforces need to concentrate on.

For example, men can kick their wives out without alimony or child support, and the slow and painful justice process means they can get away with it. These are some of the real issues women face that need to be addressed.

Flawless:
Wonder if anyone can help out? Do we have any Nigerian Deserts or Starters?

Dessert vs Desert

Ruq:
I actually taught you were talkin about desert (dryland) lol

Thought vs Taught


Anyway, as long as everyone got the idea sha :-)

freecocoa:
I believe its a lil human hair(if there's anything like that) and synthetic.any problems with that?

It's well known that there's a huge market in real human hair! With any premium product, of course there'll be frauds that try to parade synthetic hair as the real one just to get a higher price, but 100% human hair is out there.

It's mainly derived from deprived areas where people are quite desperate for income, including Asian & Eastern European countries. There've been scandals about how little these women are paid for their hair compared to how much the marketers sell it for.

Donalds N:
Hey guys! Inasmuch as we want the name of the MP, it is unethical and unconstitutional for the journalist to mention the name of the suspect. It is still under investigation. U read wat d police inspector told d journalist wen contacted. Lets just hope dat d police can do dia binding duty this time, by exposing and prosecuting d person

It's not unethical or unconstitutional to name a suspect in a case, even if it still under investigation.

The suspect just has to be presumed innocent until proven guilty.

Thank you, thank you. We have been told about the "Hot Girls" strategy. I was asking for the other posters so that we understand the non-hot girls strategy.

^^^
God is NOT a game and Paul never said that God is a game! In the passage being quoted, Paul was talking about self-discipline.

That twsiting of the word alone should make anyone run!

taskgirl:
Yes, there are! And we have various fliers and posters to get the attention of different fractions like Young girls that believe life is all about having dumb fun, church going girls e.t.c.

People just got this flier to suit their arguments thats all!

Ok, please share some of these other posters with us. Don't forget about the one designed to attract the non-hot girls.

dare2think:
Dude, I'm just getting started with them.

Its travesty from somebody to just feed "jargon" and just expect us to digest it.

It's an insult to honest and hard-working people out there.

Lol! Continue jare, so that I can keep on reading the ridiculous defenses they come up with.

The ultimate is the "Hot Girls" poster designed to attract immoral girls so that the "Holy Spirit can arrest them". I'm still laughing!

Joagbaje:
What other proof do you need ?  Why not go to his office and ask questions . The reporters should have asked the questions you guys are asking. The man is a man of God , approved with signs and wonders. Check the testimonies out.

Other proof There was no proof in the first place.

The reporter didn't ask the question, simple! So we are asking those questions to the members who are so concerned about validating him.

Joagbaje:
I may not approve of it. But the intention is pure.

Did you not question whether it was a real poster, from "Dr" Fireman, in an earlier post, or whether someone made it up? Now all of a sudden you've decided that the intention is pure.

I'M OUT! I only joined the discussion for amusement, I wasn't actually expecting any sensible answers. You didn't let me down.

Ademiro:
Actually, that flier was done to attract ladies and young girls that are into immoral things to come to church, and when they do, the Holy Spirit arrests them! It wasn't  to advertise ladies. How come you guys only got hold of 'Hot Guys', 'Hot Mummies' and 'Hot Papas' come to Perfect.

Don't understand the bolded bit. Are you saying there are "Hot Guys", "Hot Mummies" and "Hot Papas" posters as well?

What about the non-hot immoral young girls? Are they not welcome for the Holy Spirit to arrest?

Joagbaje:
You can't negate a man's word until you can prove otherwise .

You can reject a man's claims if he makes it without any proof, especially if those claims are outlandish!

Let's use wisdom here. It is much easier to prove you've written a book than for someone to prove you haven't. Same with company formations etc.

My advice to his members here is for them not to be concerned about whether anyone believes or not. But since they are concerned, then let them prove the claims they can prove and lay it all to rest.

Joagbaje:
What has the man done to be exposed . Is there any issue worthy of exposure there.? Does it make sense? Are they killing human beings in rituals there. Sheyi Rhode packaged his story to carry propaganda. Any christian sound in the word of God should detect the trick, Satan has no new tricks

Is there anything more important than a person's spiritual life?
Any Christian sound in the word of God should detect "Dr" Fireman's trick.

I'm surprised that you as a spiritual person refuse to comment on the use of "Hot Girls" as a way to invite people to church. If you look at the entire package of "Dr" Fireman and you don't have serious questions, then I am alarmed!

We call Him Jesus.
We call him Paul.
We call him Peter.
We call him James.
You call him our daddy, Rev. Dr. Sign Fireman.

Spot the odd one out!

It's quite amusing, there are like 4 or 5 threads trying to portray "Dr" Fireman as legit.

Why all the stress?

Even Jesus wasn't this concerned about PR. He just obeyed what God sent Him to do. There will be those that believe and there will be those that don't.

Personally, I wouldn't take any MOG who uses posters of "Hot Girls" seriously.

Joagbaje:
You should take it for what it says until you have proof otherwise.

How can you give this sort of advice when you know we live in a world where people lie everyday in order to get their way?

Is there any man today whose word is infallible?

What if I decide to take Seyi Rhodes words for what it is remembering that Seyi Rhodes said "Dr" Fireman broke down and was crying away from the camera because he felt they had exposed him?

Wikipedia lists their source for Nigeria as a research publication called "Association of waist circumference with risk of hypertension and type 2 diabetes in Nigerians, Jamaicans and African-Americans".

Since the research paper is targeted at a particular study area, the sample population is unlikely to be representative of the full population.

For those believing the statistic, the best comparison I can try to make is of Danny Devito, who is 5ft. The statistic is saying that on average, Nigerian men are only 4.5 inches taller than Danny Devito.

^^^
I agree!

From the "Hot Girls" poster to the 40,000 books claim to claims of Jesus appearing to him 1,000 times, how can anyone take this guy seriously!

He wrote articles, when he was 6, that no one has seen. He wrote books in his early teens, the names of which no one knows, with no copies provided.

He's either conducting a social experiment, or he has seen so many other MOGs get away with lies for so long that he just decided to join the band wagon.

God is NOT a game and Paul was not referring to God as a game! He was talking about self discipline, AND he talks about going into "strict training" which is at odds with the crazy statement that the game is easy.

That bit of deception in the message is enough to open anyone's eyes.

The boldest, largest and most obvious phrase on a poster inviting people to church is "Hot Girls", and someone is still asking us to investigate the "true facts" about this man. I ask anyone to search for the words "Jesus" or "Christ" on that poster.

5 out of the 6 links we are asked to investigate appear to have been created by him/his PR machine.

While praying for health, wealth, prosperity etc, please remember to also pray for discernment so that people like Fireman will stop pulling the wool over your eyes!

Praise for sistren solidarity on page 7.

Reality of sistren enmity by page 10.

Poster, you need to come back and end all these arguments by admitting the fault was yours in the first place. You should know that the issue isn't about you not being able to trust your wife, it is about you looking inward to understand why SHE doesn't trust YOU and how you can build up her trust in you again.

It's so simple, I can't believe any sane man can miss it. Your wife lies to you, but you're the one that's not trustworthy. You know trust is both ways, if a woman breaches your trust, surely it's obvious that it's because you breached hers in the first place.

It's really simple guys.

Ujujoan:
You say that now, but you see, you wife doesn't believe that. That's why she felt there was need for her to keep lying to you about the prices of the things she buys.

You need to get your wife to trust you first, then you can start fixing things!

Lol! I love Nairaland.
Poor poster came here complaining about losing trust in his wife, now it's been turned full circle on his head.

Once again, guys in order to save time and effort, if there's ever anything wrong in your relationship/marriage, the first thing you must do is acknowledge that it's your fault.

From Busy_Body
I am too blunt to call a spade anything else other than its name, the woman is an outright thief be it 50kobo she was pilfering away every month and has shown she cannot be trusted. No be by force to marry, so there is no room for deception in marriage. If you read my tongue in cheek post again, you will see i am with Blue Diva and iaabc all the way, hence the analogy to backward momentum, but i don't have time to start writing epistles cos i'm on mobile.

But in this story, the victim whose fowl yansh is being aired in public is a woman and that is a no no in my books, hence reason I am all for the Sisterhood coven coming out enmasse to cover up for one of ours Sorry its just the way the cookie crumbles [i][/i]

Lol. I feel you. Seems like we both write with our tongues firmly planted in our cheeks. I like!

Of course there's more to the story. This kind of story can never be complete until it's been proven that the woman is the victim.

Busy_body:
I am so emotional right now, I could burst into tears right now, us Women have come such a long way, see Sisters doing it for themselves, see Sista solidarity extra-ordinaire

Sisthren solidarity ke?

More like wives solidarity and then mistresses solidarity and then runs girls solidarity.
For all the above to combine into one sisthren solidarity movement, na big lie!

Like I've said before, it'll save guys a lot of time if they just work on the basis that anything that's wrong in their relationshiop is their own fault.

^^^
Just read a few more posts and feel really bad for getting into one of the endless men vs women merry-go-round arguments.

To all men out there, if there's anything wrong in your marriage/relationship, just accept that it's your fault and get over it.

It reminds me of a joke I heard about a talk show where a wife brought her husband on to reveal something to him. She then confessed that she had sold their house behind his back. To cut a long story short, by the time the woman, the talk show hostess and some guests had finished with him, it was the man apologising to the woman because he felt it was his fault.

I'M OUT!!!

In a family where N3,000 is a big amount, the deceit has a lot significance. It may not be a big issue to many people on this thread, but it clearly is to the family concerned.

Many have stated that what the woman did was wrong, but have then jumped into a 100 excuses about why she must have done it. On the bright side, I guess it's always promising to see sisters sticking up for themselves.

However, just based on the story we've gleamed from the poster, what she did was WRONG. Any attempt by the husband to understand why she did it and dig further into what issues she may be facing can only come about after she has unreservedly acknowledged that she was wrong.