₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ, I've been following without commenting.

Check out how i handled an atheist on the below thread:
https://www.nairaland.com/7659505/book-bible-gaffes
All of them were throwing tantrums helplessly without addressing the arrogant atheist but i told him they're all misinformed churchgoers then instead of addressing him two of them (advocatejare and this same stupid johnw47) started attacking me but i faced the atheist and ignored them until he became mild enough to respond respectfully even tendered an apology.
That's when i asked him to present his case in a more specific and formal setting then i helped him to locate his answer in the Bible.
But you know as he never expected anyone to answer his question so skillfully he was provoked and turned to rage instead of being thankful.
Please check the last three pages of that thread and see how Jehovah is showing them that only Jehovah's Witnesses are His true worshipers!

Okay sir. I'll go through the thread.

MaxInDHouse:
To them you're a novice who is unknowingly falling for the lies of Jehovah's Witnesses so they're struggling to teach you their truth, that's why i keep off to allow them mess themselves up their own trinity dogma.
I'm sure the next thing you'll get from Emusan and Johnw47 is insults, abusive speeches and curses but it's all futile!

He called me dumbass recently but I acted as if I didn't see it.
Their insult is nothing

I have been asking questions just to show him how dumb his interpretation is.

Janosky:
MUMU TRINITARIAN

Luke 8:5-11

Luke 8:11
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God"
Is Jesus the word of God @Luke8:5-11?
Did Jesus the word fall on good soil?

Luke 8:11 is Jesus PROVEN evidence of Emusan LYING & TWISTING Hebrews 4:12.

He's so determined to defend the trinity that he would never see that the "word of God" at Hebrew 4:12 wasn't referring to the third person of his three Gods that came together to become one Gods

Hebrews 4:12 NlV
[12]For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.

"It" is used for it not even "he" 🤦🏾‍♂️🤦🏾‍♂️

Janosky:
Emusan post: "Jesus is still human in heaven.....
He was The Word of God"

John 4:24,Does God in heaven have human nature?

Or your other God?

Their god is a three headed beast.
One is a spirit, the other is human and the last is a ghost 👻
Mind you they are still one god

Emusan:
We're not! Don't let comprehension be your issue.

"The WORD didn't BECOME A BODY", this is where you lied. I never said that. Quote where I said such.

If that's what you said it's not my concern but my concern is YOU PUTTING YOUR OWN WORD in my mouth and claimed I said it.

I didn't say God PUT HIS WORD IN MARY'S WOMB and became BODY.

Yes!

because that's the truth from the scripture.

I didn't show you.

He was The Word of God.

And it's so funny how you people will boycott question and later do hide and seek then turn around to ask the same question.

I've asked you before, what is the nature of God's word?

Answer that first.

If you have answered my question before now, you won't be repeating this.

What is the nature of God's word?

What is the nature of God's word?

If you answer this then we can continue.

If we weren't saying the same thing, then how did the word get into Mary's womb and became a body?

Here's your word again "Jesus body started in Mary's womb".
How did that happen? Who put the word there.

You don't know what Jesus being referred to the "word" mean.
Even the trinity says "God the son" is the second person of the trinity whereas you explained that Jesus is the literal word from God's mouth. That's confusion.
Even if you believe that Jesus is God's word literally, that proves that Jesus life or existence emanated from God.
A word can't be greater or the same with the speaker of the word or the source. God is the speaker of the word. God controls the word and say anything he wants to.
This contradicts your Trinitarian doctrines that says, the three persons Gods are co equal, co powerful etc.

God's word is God's word. It's not a person nor is it independent from God. God speaks normally for himself. He has his own voice.

Jesus was referred to "the word" or "the word of God" because he's been God's spokesman man from ancient times. I won't go deep into that. God gives him messages and his son delivers it to his people.

You believe Jesus is far more greater than the angels and yet you say he's a human and a word in God's mouth. Unbelievable! As if God doesn't have his own voice.
So the time Jesus became a "body" and lived on earth, God was dumb throughout those periods right? He couldn't speak.
Even the angels are powerful spiritual beings with their glories. How much more Jesus that's way more powerful and even have a share in God's glory.
He was a just a word without any form, seriously!?

Emusan:
Here is your statement I replied to

You lied I made this statement!

Was your statement above and the screenshot you posted the same?

From the screenshot, I even strike out [b]"LIFE and said THE PERSON that makes used of the Body"[/b]

Again, where did I say GOD PUT HIS WORD in Mary's womb that became Jesus body?

This is the point I said you lied about me.

You can still proof me wrong where I said the above statement.



Jesus is God's word forever.

We are saying the same thing.
How did the word get into Mary and become a body if what I said was a lie?

You said the "Jesus's body started in Mary's womb" and I said God put it there, what's the difference?

Okay. Jesus is God's word forever. I won't argue that with you.
You've shown me that Jesus is currently an human in heaven right now.
I need you to clearly explain what form Jesus was before he became human.

Before you said Jesus was a literal word of God in God's mouth, now you say he's a person that later used a body.

Jesus was a "person" or a "literal word residing in God's mouth"?

Emusan:
I never said that, since you can't provide that then agree that you're lying.
Smile....you don't need to point me to a book just quote the verse so everyone will know your point.
Point it out first.
He is God's Word forever!

I wouldn't lie intentionally to anyone.
The screenshot shows where you said Jesus's body started in Mary's womb.

What about presently, is he God's word?

Emusan:
Smile... And you can't point out the implications in my interpretation

BIBLE SAYS SO NOT ME.

Within God

I never said this. You can prove me wrong.

Jesus is still human in heaven after He finished his mission of becoming human He will hands over everything to the Father "So that God will be ALL IN ALL" 1 Corin 15:28

Only if you understand this.

You did said that but not in a single post. I summarised that from two or three of your rebuttal posts. I could point that out to you but I don't have the time.

You're so wrong by saying Jesus is a human in heaven. Have you read the book of revelation and saw how Jesus is described? We'll discuss that later.

I did say your interpretation of Jesus being the word of God has a lot of implications that contradict the scripture and I'll point out a few to you later. We'll take it step by step.

So your answer is that Jesus will remain in his present form till he accomplishes his missions in the future then he will go back into being God's words in God's mouth. Is that right?

TenQ:
Is it untrue that You are 90% of the time and post on religious section?

I won't swear an allegiance to Allah just so that I can post online

Check well, Most of my posts is to post about Islam.

.

Emusan:
And it's only JWs that knows the reason



BUT Jesus is the Word of God.



Which one?



You haven't answered my question, why?

Do you think GOD'S WORD is like an air particles that collided to produce sound like human?

Do you know the nature of God's word? Heb 4:12 give a glimpse of what God's word is.

Here is how your own translation put it "For the word of God is alive and exerts power+ and is sharper than any two-edged sword+ and pierces even to the dividing of soul* and spirit, and of joints from the marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart. - NWT

In case you don't get it, here is the summary
The Word of God is:
1. Alive
2. Exerts POWER
3. can discern THOUGHTS and INTENTIONS of the heart.

So can you still compare God's word with that of human?



The Word of God is ALIVE, anything ALIVE is a being on its own.



Now on @underlined you know that happened BEFORE CREATION yet you claim Jesus was CREATED. Does that sound normal to you?

I must tell you, your interpretation has a lot of implications which I feel don't conform with the Bible.

Here are your words:
You said Jesus was God's word, like he was in God's mouth and God put his word in Mary's womb and became a body.
So after Jesus finished his ministry on earth, I want to ask you once again, did he return to being God's word in God's mouth?

Emusan:
That is you're still limiting God's Word to that human where ordinary air particles collision and make sound.



Do you know the nature of God's word?

Do you think God is like human being?

The scripture says God's word is the very LIFE. Heb 4:12



I never said He didn't.



because God's promises from Old Testament is that He Himself is coming and God can never lie.



Was God included in your "LIKE EVERY OTHER BEINGS IN HEAVEN"?

I want to check something



because you are God and know the Nature of God's word.

Well that's what the scripture says.



Not as ridiculous as to think God's Word is not powerful & superior than any created beings both on earth and in heaven.

Not as ridiculous as to think the person you claimed WAS DIRECTLY created By God Himself and God used Him to create ALL OTHER THINGS (including Micheal) still was on the same level with spirit beings in heaven

No. The Bible never said Jesus was the word in God's mouth.
John the writer of the book of John called Jesus the word for some reasons.

God speaks normally and his words or speeches are not Jesus Christ lol. This is really funny. If the angels and other creatures in heaven are complete beings on their own, how could Jesus just be words that comes from God's mouth? Jesus was a complete spirit being on his own.

John 17:24
[24]Father, I want these whom you have given me to be with me where I am. Then they can see all the glory you gave me because you loved me even before the world began!

Jesus was a complete being when he experienced the glory and his Father's love way before creation.

Dtruthspeaker:
No valid argument against the Truth.

And The Truth of The Lord is established forever and ever and no one can reasonably argue against it.

Lol.

Emusan:
You don't need to understand us better read your Bible for understanding.



Does God's word not within the Being of God from eternity?



Yes! Jesus life body started in Mary's womb but the person who took over that body (provided by Mary) has no beginning who is The Word of God.

Heb 10:5 "So when he comes into the world, he says: “‘Sacrifice and offering you did not want, but you prepared a body for me." - NWT



The Word of God can't be created!



Can you imagine this dumbo...

-You claimed Jesus is just a created Being who Jehovah controls at His will.
-You claimed God is so impotent that he can't do things until he used someone else.
-You claimed Jesus is just an ordinary Angel in heaven bla bla

Yet you think people who claim Jesus is the WORD OF GOD are the one belittling Jesus Christ.

So what you're saying is that a powerful spirit being in heaven is far superior to GOD'S WORD.

I ma Se ooo.



Then why do you claimed He is an Angel?



Yes! Do you think God is like you or God carried brain cells the way you do?

But if you can see God as immeasurable Being whom no one can phantom His existence then you will know God's Word isn't just ordinary air particles colliding in human lungs to produce sound.



You didn't explain what the above verses are saying in relation to Creation.

Are you saying these verses proved that Jesus isn't the Creator or what?

because you people like jumping around like kangaroo without addressing the main point.

Lol.
If Jesus was just the literal word in God's mouth, it's like saying Jesus had no life. He was just a word. He wasn't a being. It's so absurd.

Jesus before coming to die for us on earth knew what he was coming to do.
God literally sent him. He was a spirit being like every other beings in heaven. He couldn't have been just a word in God's mouth. That's so ridiculous.

Dtruthspeaker:
That would be wrong because you do not appreciate that God Speaks!

And that obviously even before our existence, God had Spoken as proven by "John 8:42,/Proverbs 8:22-30. John 14:20.

And that for our own existence and our knowledge we came to know Him because God Spoke us into existence by His Speaking as you see in Genesis 1 to wit: "And God Said..."

And it is He Who is referred to as "The Lord God" as His introduction, in Genesis which after introduction, The Name changes to "The Lord". A Name no one bore except Him which He bore again when He came visiting as a man with The Name, Jesus Christ.

AND WE ALL CALL HIM THE LORD!

And so are there 2 "The Lord"?
No! Only One, The Lord.

And neither does anyone have this Name
Philippians 2:9
For this reason God raised him to the highest place above and gave him the name that is greater than any other name.

That Name is "'The Lord". Full Name, The Lord God!

Hence why we sing.

NO OTHER NAME (Don Moen)
No other name but the Name of Jesus
No other name but the Name of The Lord
No other name but the Name of Jesus
Is worthy of glory
And worthy of honor
And worthy of power
And all praise

And the hymn

ALL HAIL THE POWER

All hail the power of Jesus name, let angels prostrate fall
Bring forth the royal diadem and crown Him Lord of all
Bring forth the royal diadem and crown Him Lord of all

Now you understand why those demons were shouting when they saw Him in Luke 4:41

Omo

Women who don't wear trousers and jewelry too have the same fate.

It was a must for the Jews not Christians.

Dtruthspeaker:
Do Words go back into the mouth?

I need to understand you guys clearly. You and Emusan.

If you say that Jesus was God word in God's mouth, definitely Jesus didn't exist at until he was born on earth.
So if Jesus didn't go back to God's mouth after ascension, it further proves that Jesus life started in Mary's womb.
In other words, you're saying that Jesus was created.

You guys are really belittling Jesus Christ who was a powerful spirit being in heaven before coming to earth by saying he was just a word in God's mouth. That's so dumb.
He even dropped his glory and was made a little lower than the angels, I.e he became man.
Jesus Christ had his own free will and was a distinct person from the Father.

John 17:18,24
[18]Just as you sent me into the world, I am sending them into the world.
[24]Father, I want these whom you have given me to be with me where I am. Then they can see all the glory you gave me because you loved me even before the world began!

How would you explain these above verses with your illogical interpretation 🤔🤔

MaxInDHouse:
You will hear lots of things from trinitarians!

Hahahaha I'm shocked 😲

Emusan:
Understanding what? That Jesus is the Word of God
Not me that's what the scripture says!
That was the reason the scripture revealed that both The Word and God are Creator and not CREATORS

So when Jesus went back into heaven, he went back into God's mouth?

Dtruthspeaker:
Yes i.say so, what is wrong with that?

Oh

Emusan:
Not what I say but what the scripture says
Jesus is the Word of God.
Is it a lie?

So you just repeat that without understanding it?

Are you saying Jesus is the word in God's mouth?

Emusan:
The Word of God who came into creation to redeem Human.

I don't understand.
What do you mean by saying the son is the word of God?

Emusan:
SMILE....You people will not stop to amaze me

I know it's human (those mini gods in Warwick) that created your brain

I only demanded for just single verse where Jesus created anything for many days now no answer



Shalomel!!!

Who's the son?

Emusan:
As you're spelling it out ensure you open that skull too



Which means God can't lie and different verses shows how God carried out the Creation activities.

Genesis where the first creation activities was recorded shows GOD SPOKE and IT WAS SO! God didn't command another Being.



Yes! because They were both God and ONLY God can create. God is not a weak god who is not capable of creating things.



Yes! That Jesus is the Creator because without HIM(Jesus) NOT EVEN ONE THING WERE Created.



Yes! But Genesis details how God created things by just a command directly to the THINGS CREATED and not to another BEING.

Prov 8 described how God Himself performed the creation work.



I've thrashed this earlier.

If Dangote comes to and said you see those cement I'm the one who operates all the machines that produce them or there was a report that at the factory of Dangote cement, I saw how he(Dangote) operate the machines that produce the cement.

I guess you'll never doubt that Dangote didn't involve in the production of his cement neither will you conclude that Dangote assigned the work to another person.

Genesis said God issued all command to the things created and this was supported by Psalm 148:3, Rom 4:17, Heb 11:3



Which resources are you talking about when the scripture says God created the universe from nothing?

Can you provide just a single verse where this Jesus created single thing and the name of resources used?

Prov 8 shows how God carried out this operation.

Stop following the tradition of men and read Scripture for yourself.



I'm not disputing that the point so far is that Jesus is the Creator.

Humans create too, so we're Gods and equal to God the Father.

Shalom

Emusan:
God didn't claim. Stop this nonsense.
God actually created EVERYTHING according to the scripture.
So who actually did it?
Yes! because two DIFFERENT people can't claimed one thing.
Where did I talk about Trinity since our discussion started?
Definitely, you're afraid of something
The question is who actually carried out the activities? This is the question you're still dodging.
Prov 8 that your deluded brother is pointing you to, still shows that it was God Himself carrying out those activities.
No! The scripture described WHO actually carried out the activities.
God says HIS OWN HAND STRETCHED OUT THE HEAVENS,
So Jesus was holding God's hand to stretch out HEAVENS.
Well I'm expecting you quote the scripture.
See how demonic doctrines are destroying your life.
Of course I'm not above learning but you that you have attained the height of learning.
Where did the Son carry out a single creation activity?

I'll spell it out to you for the last time.

God said in OT books that he created everything with his own hands. You've brought verses on that already.

Same God stated at Hebrew 1:10 that his son who's Jesus created them...

Do you know what John, Paul and the writer of Hebrew concluded @ John 1:3, Colossians 1:16 and Hebrew 1:2 respectively?

Their conclusion was that "God created through Christ".

Everyone knows that Dangote produces cement. He can say it anywhere that he does.
He might not even visit the factory for a year and yet cements are being produced day by day.
If Dangote comes and gives credits to the production manager that he produces good cements, does that mean the manager is the real producer or owns the factory? No! He works for Dangote and uses Dangote's resources.
Thus, Dangote is the real producer of the cements.

Same with Christ, Jesus created according to God's instructions and he used God's resources.

God Is The Creator

Emusan:
Good! So God is not lying which means He actually created everything By Himself.



The Son is then A CREATOR because ONLY A CREATOR can Create



So why are you now saying the Son isn't a Creator when The Father Himself said The Son is?



Which means both must be the same.



I do, did you?

He claimed he did and still said the son did, they are the same person you say or trinity doctrine has wounded your reasoning.

God created through Jesus. Simple!
God is the creator. Everything still goes to God. Everything Jesus used was from God...



You still have a lot to learn!

johnw47:
dum false jw corny boy, me no shout Jesus is Lord, me say Jesus is Lord,
you false jw's can never stop lying, can you

i don't do anything like you false jw's, some hang with me long ago trying to have me join,
iv'e heard their lies when preaching, and what they say when not preaching first hand,
for instance one said, "that house over there", pointing to a very nice house, "will be mine after armageddon"
see how you people covert

another false jw said to me, "don't keep talking about Jesus, He is no one"

you false jw's are the great Jesus deniers, of course you don't like saying Jesus is Lord:

1Jn_2:23  Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.

Mat_10:33  "But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.

Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, that is his natural way of speaking, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

It's not just about quoting verses and shouting "Jesus is lord" but following Jesus and Jehovah's commandments and serving them.

Jokerman:
My last post to the deceived JW concerning Archangel Michael not being the same as Jesus Christ.

1. Jude 9 says that Michael would not rebuke or accuse Satan on His own authority, but only say “The Lord rebuke you.” This shows that Michael isn’t Jesus, because Jesus often rebuked Satan and demons in His own authority (Matthew 17:18, Mark 1:25, 9:25, Luke 4:8, 4:35).

2. Who fights in this battle? This is truly a battle between equals. The dragon represents Satan (Revelation 12:9), and Satan is not the counterpart of God – God has no counterpart. If anyone, Satan is the counterpart of Michael, who seems to be the chief angel opposite this chief of fallen angels.


3. Some say Michael must be Jesus, because he has his angels. But if Satan – a fallen angelic being – has his angels (Revelation 12:7), can’t Michael – an unfallen angelic being – have his angels?


4. Why was Michael not able to cast Satan out of heaven until Jesus Christ was resurrected and taken back to heaven in revelation 12..

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Who is this man child?? Is this not Jesus Christ?? Now read what follows in the next verses

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Why do you think there was/will be war in heaven?? This is because Jesus Christ ascended back to heaven and stopped Satan from accessing that realm again, and that's why Satan put up a fight with his angels. Prior to Jesus death and resurrection, Satan had access to heaven and kept accussing everyone before God, yet Michael and other angels has no authority to cast him out


Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

So the JW should read this passage and see their folly of calling Angel Michael as Jesus Christ.

Once you've seen Jesus, you've seen God.

Janosky, cornelboy etc

This is super story 🎵

No nowhere in the Bible outrightly says Jesus is Michael and no where says he's not Michael.
But the clues point that Jesus is was Michael.
And the JWs weren't even the first people to conclude that.

If you feel that they are different. No argument. But you cannot force your interpretation on anyone. The JWs don't force you to believe that. So just stay on your lane.


But there are some teachings that are vividly explained in the scripture, for example the personality of God.
God is one being or person, the Father. He's distinct.
If tell me "three in one God" shit I can argue that one till death.

MaxInDHouse:
The truth is not far fetched, they only criticize Jehovah's Witnesses because we don't acknowledge their pastors as men of our God but the funny thing about them is that they're not even sure of those they're following as they can't agree on which of their so called pastors is really a God sent.
If you ask each of them now to mention the name of their pastors and what their fellow Nairalander Christians have to say about the pastor you will be surprised that they don't have any that's why they're really worried as we know our own leaders and stick to their teachings {Act 2:42; Hebrews 13:7} while they are scattered (confused) in their opinion regarding who should take the lead among them! Luke 11:23

Na politics dem dé play for all those churches oh. Dem dé buy position self

Emusan:
And these are the Bible verses you're still contending with

NWT:
Isaiah 48:13 "My own hand laid the foundation of the earth, And my right hand spread out the heavens. When I call to them, they stand up together.

Isaiah 44: 24 "This is what Jehovah says, your Repurchaser, Who formed you since you were in the womb: “I am Jehovah, who made everything. I stretched out the heavens by myself, And I spread out the earth. Who was with me?"

Just tell us that Jehovah was lying here!

Lol have I ever disputed that he said that?

He also said the son made the heavens and the earth..

Hebrews 1:10
[10]He also says to the Son,
“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundation of the earth
    and made the heavens with your hands.

And it says here that God created the universe through Jesus the son.

[2]And now in these final days, he has spoken to us through his Son. God promised everything to the Son as an inheritance, and through the Son he created the universe.

Figure it out 😂😂

johnw47:
corny boy, of course you laugh out loud to a Christian's declaration that Jesus is Lord

1Co_12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

1Co 8:6  yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. 

Joh 13:13  "You call Me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, for so I am.

What's the essence of shouting "Jesus is lord" but you don't even follow Jesus like the JWs do?

MaxInDHouse:
When i first attend the meetings of Jehovah's Witnesses i was really impressed because they are really following Jesus' order back to back.

So if someone say anything against them back then i only try to figure out if such a person knows how dedicated Jehovah's Witnesses are in doing what Christ commanded my brother it's either envy or misinformation that's worrying them!

Envy, misinformation or hypocrisy.
Like that Pharisees did in the of Jesus and early church.