₦airaland Forum

papatosibe:
Welfare politics . . . way to go.

I would beg to differ here, if we have the same defination of welfare politics, my defination would be putting the downtrodden before commercial development, i personaly support the reserve, especially with the limitex resources at hand

Iolo:
If I remember correctly OBJ did an SNC with no results. Its one thing to clamour for an SNC, its another to hold one that truly reflects the minds of the average Nigerian and not the elite class from the different tribes.

Instead of an SNC why not these noisemakers come up with relevant bills and rally support for their passage in the NASS. Funny thing is whatever resolutions or outcome the SNC comes up with, the NASS will still have to be the ones to pass it into law, so why bit around the bush.

We just like deceiving ourselves in this country. The North and South can never disintegrate peacefully so why bother. Come up with true Federalism bills encouraging a bottom-up approach to development and IGR instead of the present Up-bottom national cake system we are presently practicing.

It was a national conference not an SNC, though with not much difference, the only difference was the the national confab did not have a say on the unity of the country, they made it non negociable,

Meanwhile asking for a bottoms up approach to revenue generation is what people like alh harem interprete to mean asking for breakup of the country,

Those asking for SNC should know that its not only to ask for SNC, if the aim it to get lazy parasites in our mist to sit up, remember that thier numbers at the SNC will be more, hence they will use their numbers to ensure that the parasitic leeching continues, just as it happened at the national confab

C how pple are defending the actions of the army pple, na wa oooo

I seriously detest this idea of states personnally getting involved in businesses, from the post above people dont seamm the mind this same system that has driven this country to the brink, why can't all these governments concentrate on their core activities, something is truely wrong with nigerians

This is wishing u a speedy recovery for ur paranoia, i honestly think it is getting the better of you, obviously u have refused to answer my questions in my previous post, telling us the md of shell is from delta state and we dont know the difference between itsekiris and yorubas,
population of itsekiri in delta state is not up to 200k and chevron and they have to battle chevron constantly to get for any little chances they have to work there, chevron would rather employ from lagos, there have been several publicized protest by itsekiris against this,
Urhobos and ibos form the major populations in delta state followed by ijaws and isokos before itsekiris.

alj harem:
And you see nothing wrong in an oil producing country NOT having her own refinery ?

Just tell GEJ to do SNC, I am done with Nigeria really

its high time you r placed on some form of medication, its not a joke, i know sometimes i might try to say some hurtfull words at you, but this is not one of those times,

while you proceed to the nearest medical center for threatment, please bear in mind that refineries are going to be built, hope this helps with the blood pressure,

^^^
a curse thay u r begging for lol,
meanwhile true federalism will settle alll this nonsence, if all states pay taxes to FG, then it wouldnt even make sence for the FG to share the revenue from the sea,
parasites plenty sha

wow , I am impressed, hold the commisioners accountable, delta state commisioner for police watch out

I read the article and it says that the licencing for refineries will not be based on acrage but on other criteria, how does that translate to nigeria/FG not wanting to build refineries, delusional behaviour from Aj Harem, Igbos and SS run presedency are hunting his dreams

saxywale:
one of the best post on NL ever.

If i was a selfish parasitic individual from the SW I would find it one of the best wite ups on the internet,

texazzpete:
yes, use the US as an example. Why not Siberia for example? All the massive oil and gas accumulations in Siberia yet the resource volumes are understood to belong to the whole of Russia.

Bottom line is, it makes zero sense for any oil company to relocate back to the ND when everyday one poorly educated tout will come out in the name of MEND and threaten 'Operation Hurricane', a plan to burn down oil facilities and kidnap staff.

I forgot to add this to the list of excuses, but imagin if the oil
companies were located in the niger delt and dominated by nigerdeltans, do you think there would be tbis level of mitancy? militancy and violence is due to the refusal of people not letting the rights things get done,
I work for an oil company in warri, any time we visit the head office in lagos for official assignments, our movements are restricted to VI and ikoyi, the rest of lagos is termed unsafe officially, recently so much property was destroyed by opc violence in main land lagos, theres violence everywhere in this country,

The russian example u just gave, which country has propered.more russia where govt controls everything or usa where individuAl enterpreneurs drive the economy?

alj harem:
* people watch this man's logic*

Are the "yorubas" the owner of Shell, Chevorn, BP, Total, Mobil etc ? Do you see why I said classic example of stu.pid thinking

Do we not have an FG ?

After Obj in 2007, we have had 2 precidents, and GEJ has been the precident now for 2 years he has not think it is fit to forcefully transfer the companies ?

Dude you have a fish brain (no insult but fact)

So what do we do now since the companies HQ are still in Lagos (No man's land) and Abuja ?

R the yorubas owners of the oil companies? what a question, obviously have never been inside an oil company in Nigeria. If you have then you wouldnt ask such a question, they dominate key positions in the private oil sector, in the govt oil sector, they combine with hausas to run the show, but zre we even saying that we dont want them to work there? no. The simple fair question is that the companies are located where the resources are, so that the locals can be presented with a better opportunity to influence economic, commercial decisions of the companies, how has this turned me into the igbo ghost who see in your nightmares?

Why on earth should akwa ibom people look with folded arms while major contracting decisions and employment opportunities are decided from lagos?

Osiris.212:
Where did you get the bolded from? SW is the most vocal against GEJ?
Where were you people when [b]Tunde Bakare, Wole Soyinka, Femi Falana and other veteran Yorabas [/b]are organizing demostration on the streets of Lagos and Abuja, to free GEJ from shackles of Turai and other northern cabals? None of you shouting have the liver to confront the so-called kitchen cabinets that wore apron on GEJ and made him a senior chef in villa!

You keep peddling lies to satisfy your true nature of greed.

Not for OBJ(Yoruba man) that single handedly picked the clueless fisherman from creek to become VP and OPENLY supported his re-election bid against all odds, [/b]even when you lots are all hiding in your creeks looking for how to bunker crude oil, would you be here spewing this rubbish? The meal is served and suddenly Yorubas are now the enemies of GEJ according to some paid henchmen and their vulture clans


90% of those that fought and supported GEJ when the tides is very high are Yorubas! Yet, now that the mission is accomplished you took another freinds and want to make us your enemies for simply pointing to GEJ how to better the lives of Nigerians.

-Little poser to you, [b]Do you have problems with Yorubas dominance among the local content force due to thier education advancement? Why don't you then quickly repatriates those quacks from asia and europe littering the whole oil and gas industries and sucking the country dry? Do you know that there are fulkernizers from europe at escravos, QIT, Bonny Island, Gbaran, Brass? Oh! I see you don't have problem with them taking over more than 50% of the jobs because they are "whites", abi?.

Where I worked last, we have logistic officers, securities, secretaries and cheffs from europe working while more than 50% of the community youths are jobless!


-Lemme disappoint you a little, there is a 7 billion dollars offshore bidding process in Lagos presently that would change our history and send a shock wave to those claiming there is no oil in south west. The oil wells have been successful tested and reservior content is a gold mine that will run upto 25 years of extraction, and the 7 billion dollars offshore contract is at its final stage of approval with all the grey areas being resolved. The plartform is going to be located between offshore Lagos and Benin republic. I call it the "checkmate"!

Europeans brought development to africa yet we asked for indepencence from them despite the good thing they did, they brought technology and the original investment to establish the oil industry and we told them thanks but we would like to build local capacity, so we started implementing policies that would make sure that they set up companies in nigeria, we told them that the majn offices for decisions had to be in nigeria, we woildnt allow them set up contracts from uk, or recruit people from london because they have better educational records, we told them that certain minimum number and type of positions had to be occupied by nigerians,
But who were those controlling the government when we were ensuring that the IOC nationalise, guess,

They question is how can we as a country force the IOC to do this things since the early 70's. And turn around to pepertrate the same thing against the Nigerdeltans, And when we complain and insist that the IOCs and govt coys carrying out day to day activies shoild actually be located in the resource area, you say the following
1-private companies cannot be forced by government forgeting that they were forced to move their important decision making components to nigeria in the first place, if would prefer to control the production from london or houston
2-You are not educated enuf, forgetting that supplus Ndeltans are educated without jobs, each niger delta states has approximately 3 higher institutions since the 70s,
3-They must be igbo seeking the downfall of yorubas. Forgetting that the bitter truth that the oil producing communities are denied so much by this travesty of justice, also forgeting that lagos and yoruba land will not collaspe if the yorubas are weaned of this paracitic leeching behavior, in fact it will encourage them to put their education and population to good use rather than as tools to deny the minorities of opportunities
4-We helped fight for SS presidency in 2008 to 2010, forgetting that this does not reverse an injustices that has existed during fhe 70s, also forgettng that many SS people lost their lives fighting for mkos denied presidency while their hausa patners stabbed them in the back. The feeling here is that we should allow oil companies to operate from lagos since they supported the SS president
5-finally you must be igbo as a way of trivialising a serious struggle for the economic soul of the nigerdelta oil production, obviously with the feeling that the nigerdeltan is too uneducated to speak for themselves.
6-yorubas r also located in the nigerdelta, hence oil companies should operate from lagos
7-the recent excuse is that oil is in lagos, no production yet ooo.the relative quantities viz a vis national production not given to us yet, ok even if we accept this, can the indegineous company carriying out the explortion remain in lagos while the other companies move base to the nigerdelta,
8-lagos is no mans land?? hiding behind this extremely dumb statement to defend this rubbish to just very poor, nothing else


you guys better stop defending rubish because you think it favours you

alj harem:
How come the government during GEJ ear share Oil allocations in Delta state as follows

25% Ijaw

10 % Ilaje-yoruba

65 % Itsekiri another Yoruba group (close relation)

do you care to answer ?

should I go to edo yes, No, maybe ?

where did u get this very stupid information from?, ok lets assume that there are yorubas in delta state, is that why govt and private owned oil companies have be running the oil bisiness from lagos since the 1970s?
Nothing stops lagos from being the economic nerve center for the country, but its wrong for yorubas to corner all the oil companies to lagos because they successfully manipulated their ways to controling positions in the govt and private owned oil companies.

Where do u fine yorubas in the nigerdelta? is lagos in the nigerdelta? dk u remember how yoruba screamed when national shipping  council was moved from lagos to abuja by abdul salam, they screamed so loudly in the papers that when Obj came in he moved it back to lagos within a month or so, the main reason advanced by the yorubas was that the sea was at lagos and not abuja, forgetting that NSC is an administrative building and NAPIMs and NNPC had their HQs in lagos when the oil is located the nigerdelta,

This shouting was done for the NSC that contributes very little compared to the oil companies, just imagin what would have happened if the oil was located in yoruba land

Gaskia:
I can remember some years back when a certain military administrator in akwa ibom - capt adewusi said that the ppl of akwa ibom are not schooled enough to work for exxon mobil. He received a slap from an elderly woman. today someone in nairaland is calling that same state a bush , not good enough for exxon HQ. The last time I visited calabar and uyo, I was shocked and can tell you that they are the fastest developing federating states in terms of infrastructures, serenity and human quality. Anyone who cannot site his HQ there shd stop doing any biz there. Millions of other private companies in the world will be willing to go there and respect nigerians. Shd we relocate ASO ROCK from abuja because Boko haram attacked locations in abuja? There is no sane logic to support why their HQ's shd not be there.

Ever wonder why the SW is the most vocal against GEJ, they feel he is going to upset the system,

The next stage of militancy has to be more control of the companies, they will have to move, if GEJ will not do it because he is afraid to be labeled tribalist, then it will have to be done by force, its not a previllage, its a right, economic control of the nigerdelta must not remain in the hands of the yorubas, if we are uneducated we will be trained, the warning has been served

@Jp phillips
Thanks, likewise i wouldnt be needing a response from you, I can now see why beaf has total disregard for you, thanks and take care

Gideonyte:
Its very bad that many people on Nairaland comment on issues that they have hardly researched or know anything about!!! I guess its the way Nigerians have been brainwashed to think.

I really can't blame these people it's Obj's Land Use Act i blame!


The same people who flay the NigerDeltans for asking for the relocation of the HQs of oil companies to their area CANNOT come to the US, especially Texas, and tell Texans to their face that the oil on their land doesn't belong to them.

All oil companies operating in Texas have their HQ either in Houston or Dallas! So can we say the Texans are also silly

Do Nigerians people really know that 85% of wells and 65% of oil production in the US are from "mom and pop" oil companies; i.e, privately owned Do Nigerians know that if as a Texan, oil is found on your land all you do is fold your arms and cross your legs and as high as 30% of GROSS REVENUE from the oil sales is yours OR if you have enough capital you can setup your oil company and CEO. Someone actually told me of a Nigerian who married an american and later found out that oil is on the land owned by his wife, that guy now is very wealthy now. Maybe we should start calling these Texans lazy and greedy people!!!



See even when it comes to recruitment into these oil companies here in Texas, goodness me they don't play with Texans!!!

I'm tired to silly commments on Nairaland about NigerDeltans. Many need exposure!!!

This is the problem we face daily, people try all posible reasons to justify why the Ndelta economy should be run from lagos,
They first started with we are not educated enough,
then they talked ablot violence in the Ndelta,
Now they say we arenot good enuf to run the oil companies,

And they claim not to be evil.

slam7000:
quote from Alj harem,

Quote from: DaLover on Today at 09:22:01 AM
What exactly are you saying?? Alaye and OPC factions are fighting and destroying property in Lagos, should companies move out because of that?

You think so much like an igbo uneducated ideeiot as always. Private companies are free to put their headquarters wherever they want. It has nothing to do with "Yoruba people"

You are getting worse sir,must you associate the post above with igbos, I thought thread has to do with S/S agitations to have some companies located to their region.

See how much of an idi0t you are, when someone speaks the bitter truth you call the person an Igbo, by your standards private oil companies can even operate from south Africa, there will just plant their riggs in Nigeria, then start commercial, contracting and employment from Jo'burg, Ok lets stoop to your low level thinking and acccept this thinking, what about a government concern, NAPIMs charged with the responsibility of managing the day to day expenditure of government on the JV? please come up with another low level explanation for this,

when you see an obviously wrong thing and you try to wrap all sorts of excuses around why it should be so, you end up f00ling yourself,

alj harem:
You are getting worse yourself, tell your people to stop getting involve in what does not concern them then I would not add them to any discussion.

Dalover is igbo even though he claims Isoko but cannot speak HIS language nor knows where Isoko is located.

If Igbos on Nairaland thing they can ridicule any group then they are in for a big shocker. Chekena

Please leave what I am and attend to what I am saying, your own fear of igbos self is becoming delusional, now every unknown element is classified as Igbo by you, I pity you sha, this is untold and unnecessary brain stress you are causing yourself.

Standing5:
Was militancy in ND a result of ethnic conflict? When i said ethnic conflict, i know what i am saying. Go ask about Ijaw /Itsekiri conflict and its effect on the warri area.

What exactly are you saying?? Alaye and OPC factions are fighting and destroying property in Lagos, should companies move out because of that?

Standing5:
In addition to what texazypete has said let me also add that these companies used be in Warri and environs, a core ND zone, before. Anytime the various ethnic groups were fighting for land (oil land) in the past, they didn't spare the oil companies and in some cases oil companies on their rival stronghold were targetted as a way hurting one another.
Beside most of the people in agitating for the relocation of oil companies have no qualification or experience to handle what will be comimg back, if it ever happens.

Since I was born, Mobil, chevron and SPDC main offices have been in Lagos, I don't know what you mean by this, napim, the National Investment management company is watching the investments in the oil industry from lagos, this has been since the 1970's, so the excuse of militant activites that started in the 2006 is really a poor excuse,
Yoruba people should own up to this very crazy thing happening in this country

ciceroji:
Whenever I come an read this forum I am often surprised by the comments. It seems noone realized that the cost of that cheap fuel is the future of Nigeria. No one seems to realize that it is not an issue of more money for the government, it is an issue of more money for Nigeria. No one seems to have the slightest understanding of how capitalism works yet we live in a capitalist system.

Here is my favorite. I hear a complaint about Nigeria and how nothing works. Then a couple lines down I hear someone asking for more free stuff. If you really want a subsidy and want it really bad first change the entire Nigerian mentality to be closer to that of the Swiss. Not the British the system will still not work it needs to be the Swiss.

The easier path is to get rid of ALL subsidies and let Nigeria develop. If people want money from the government ask for Money DIRECTLY in the form of a check. Don't mess with the economic system it will just break.

i don talk tire, but the amount of f00lish people i come across.is amazing,

baslone:
Like they are ready to work.

the companies should come first, then we woild know if they are ready to work abi

@post, please can u kindly explain the easr at which core northerners take to killing people from the south or christians in northern cities or is it a myth too?

@jp phillips,
the key is not and can never be in dashing out crude, the reason why sanusi's policies dont seam to work is that we expect them to run side by side with an artificial system, you claim to be a guru in the oil industry with sound knowledge in economics, but u would rather suggest a policy that does not take the immediate enviroment into consideration, stop decieving urself, asking for the imposible and unrealistic conditions,

I have told you that your solution requires everyone involved to be a saint and u say corruption is not the issue here, if you cannot see the problem in the context of the nigerian environment and how to get out of the present situation, then you obvoiusly cant see the bigger picture,

You talk of deserving a workable law enforcement and that exactly why i say you lack the capacity to propose a practical solution to a problem,

I would like you to answer just this question. At what point in the near future (say in next 10years) do you expect to have a reliable police, army, navy and politicians who you can beat ur chest and operate honestly?

You actually expect 300,000bbls to be dashed to local refineries at $25 bbl and all nigerians to hold hands and sing kunbaya, i think its time u wake up from ur slumber

You call alison maduake, sanusi and okonji iweala clowns, i guess you are much brighter than them, most of the guys u call clowns are tried and tested in the private sector before serving this government and nerve to feel u r better than any of them, all because they told you that free crude is unrealistic, where did they ever say that IOCs must be the ones to build the refineries?
You refused to give their method a try, sit down and cry for free oil and call them clowns,
Please show me the research where refineries buying at international prices are dying, i need to examine what exactly is causing this situation, i am not convienced that the prices of crude are responsible for this, or dont pple in those cointries buy refined products again? do the citizens find imported pms cheaper to buy?

Look I am totally against anything that would actively keep the govt running businesses as a method to drastically reduce corruption, provide services and increase the middle class, but if u feel govt to directly create an artifical system like they have being trying to do the the exchange rate, creating a black market,

Apearantly you are probably hooked on free oil, and it has defined your insistence on continuing in along this path.

I would expect that your end target is to ensure total refining of all our crude produce, but from what i see you are content with nigeria exporting crude as long as ur cheap source of crude flows for your consumption, for those like me who wish to see between 10 and 20 refineries set up in nigeria refining all our produce and providing refined products for both the local market and international market, this your $25 idea is a totally retrogressive idea

@JP phillips,
first I think it is very irresponsible and callous of you to refer to NDeltans the way you are, though you are really not to blame, the concept of free oil has been handed down over the years, it probably stuck in our mentality,

Obviously we both want the country to progress, we need to reach a certain destination, but the route is where we differ, fundamentally I believe in capitalism to the core, I believe that the governments responsibility is not to do what the average man can do for himself, but to be as much as posible a neutral umpire, ensuring that a condusive enviroment exist,

Nigeria is a developing/underdeveloped country I agree, but was america always a developed country? check their history? it was based on competitive spirit and a neutral government, whenever the govt comes in, its temporary and they get out, else life becomes distorted, people become easily corrupted and everybodies property becomes no bodies property.

If I am to follow your logic, we sould be waiting for the day responsible leadership will come to manage a welfare state with extreme incentive for corruption and still avoid being corrupt, a situation where oil prices for $106 are traded at $25, where drugs of =N=10,000 are traded to everybody for =N=50, where fertilizers will sell for far less than the market cost, for such to exist you are actually asking for a totalitarian govt like Buhari's military era (similar to Gadaffi) or Jesus christ as president and his angels as ministers,

Try and follow my logic here, we do not need angels to run the government, we need a sensible structure, abandon the concept of free oil, as it has put us in real trouble we are facing today,
Solution, Nigerdelta communities and land owners partner with oil companies (local or international) or produce the crude themselves if possible, pay taxes to state governments or LGAs, state governments pay taxes to FG (oil producing or not), Oil is then sold to local refineries at competitive rates,


On the issue of competitive rates, if the market price of oil for instance is $106 for instance, the crude should land the refinery in nigeria at $106 plus local transportation, while it lands the refinery in UK for instance at $106 plus international transportation, that already puts the local refinery at an edge, so if the local guys pay $108, the guy in UK may pay something like $116, naturally competition should produce more efficient pipeline networks ond other stuff that would drive the prices down,

But when you insist on NPDC running the system, its clear that you are not ready for real change, just imagin that you cannot understand how a hugeh price differential would affect the system and precipitate conditions that make blackmarketing inevitable

I wonder who makes economic policies with "black market" as a yard stick what is Nigeria doing in the black market? did i mention black market? are you suggesting that a competent Navy cannot stop illegal smuggling?
are we talking about security of our waters or are we discussing the way forward on cheaper energy? bros, stay on course abeg.
countries who patronize black markets are countries under heavy sanctions which Nigeria is not a member.
if the Nigerian waters is porous, you don't blame the policy but the cohesive apparatchik of the Govt whose job is to secure the waters.
please stay on point the argument.

Appearently you are not a realist, you are waiting for Navy, customs, FG and all politicians to become born again and give their lifes to christ, I wont be too surprised if you are als waiting for Nitel, Nipost and Nigerian airwaste to rise,

My solution does not require the entire country to be righteous before things can happen, it requires competition and free enterprise to create the kind of accountability you have in the telecoms industry, the aviation industry and other industries where govt has decided to step aside and allow nigerians runs things themselves, they may not be perfect but its a step in the right direction,

The fact that we are poor and underdeveloped does not mean we create an enviromet of laziness and corruption, Use your head JP phillips, you are almost on the verge of sounding intelligent, you can actually reduce govt corruption by reducing what govt is involved in, not waiting for the messiah while running an unsustainable system

@Jp Phillips,
what has worked in libya under autocratic rule with a population of delta state and roughly the same oil as nigeria will not work in Nigeria, your insistance on a government tring to run a distored economy is what is the issue here,
Trying to use examples of such countries like Kuwait, saudi and UAE will not work with nigeria, their conditions are really exceptions ot the rule and are truely not sustainable on the long run,

I hope you know that the international black market does not follow opec quotas, otherwise it wont be called a black market, allocating crude at $25 far below the international oil price is a reciepe for disaster, the profit difference is just toooo much. too irresistable, common, it like transfering the subsidy situation from the downstream sector to the upstream sector.

What I am saying is very simple, dont not create a condition where extreme illegal profiteering can take place,

How can you say that if I could have sold a product for $106 but decide to give it to somebody for $25, then it is not subsidy? Your argument is that everything beyound opec quota should be given away at a cheap price still doesnt work because there is no absolute law that says we must respect opec quotas, some oli producing countries are not even members of opec and sell their oil without opec hindrances,

I would like you to stop calling nigeria crude cheap, I think that an insult on the average nigerdelta man you has been denied the opportunity to explore his resources and sell at a price he deems fit or is contrained to sell due to competition.

Instead of looking at the unrealistic situation that have created lazy citizens in Kuwait, Saudi UAE etc, look towards countries like USA, UK, that have more oil than nigeria, yet it is not dashed freely or cheaply in the name of subsidizing comsumption, free enterprise and hardwork drives the economy, not blanket subsidy as you are preaching.
You stated earlier that if local refineries were to but the crude at international prices that pms would cost =N=300 to =N=500 per liter in nigeria, does that meen that countries that buy at international prices sell at that rate? =N=300 is $2 per liter or $8 per galon for those living in the USA, as you can see this is not even close to the truth,


Jp Phillips, you and other nigerians, both inside and outside of government should stop trying to run a distored economy, stop trying to artifically fix prices to impress poor people,
what needs to be done? to allow for total refining of local product at a competitive price (this is international price - cost of freighting), (not giveaway price system you are advocating), allow private enterprises set up here (international and local), not to compete against govt owned refineries, if we eventually have 20 refineries operating in nigeria exporting only refined products, imagin the amount of jobs created.


Subsidy is countries are targeted, you have to go and defend why you think you deserve subsidy, it time tyo get rid of father chrismass type of governance, it has not worked in the past, it is not working now and it will not work in the future.

dayokanu:
So assuming they apologize, The issue don finish be dat??

Clueless man, Instead of demanding SNC that puts the issue to a logical conclusion you are demanding apology

Any well meaning SS representative, should tell the FG to chuck the apology where sun don't shine and convene SNC sharp sharp with resource control tops of the agenda

Demdem:
What ffucking apology? Sttupid man. Instead of him to canvassed for SNC that will entrench true federalism, he is talking rubbish. Useless man.

Guys dont get me wrong ooo, I am totally in support of true federalism, but are you guys really sure that an SNC will achieve true federalism, how will the SNC be organised, if we use population figures as we have it now, the north (hausas in particular), will have majority representation at the SNC and will use this to block the request for true federalism, even the SW is against it as evidenced by their stand at the last constitutiuonal conference organised under OBJ, so I wonder if you guys have thought this thing through,

If is it only true federalism we want to achieve we can push this through the national assenbly, this can be done agressively by GEJ government

rational societies call subsidy,

so if the govt could have soild a bbl for $106 but decides to dash it to oando for $25, you dont think that is subsidy in it rawest blanket form?
try and imagin if ijaws were allowed to mine their resourses the way others are free to till their land, would you insist that they sold the crude to you for $25?
They govt is not asking northern or western farmers to sell their farm produce at a fixed rate, despite subsidizing the production.
What you are calling cheap oil is oil siezed from people, oil is a resource just as fertile land is.

crude bought here will definately be cheaper, but not at the low prices u are claiming,

jp philips:
Now that nuisance beaf is off the stage, what you propose above is a realistic approach adopted by nations you believe are successful.
i am a Nigerian, i love to approach the Nigerian issues in its peculiarity, someone spit a white lie that has been in circulation since January and i have looked at all indexes of reality  (Nigeria wise) and i am yet to prove its veracity.

even the special adviser on new media (aka Beaf) could not prove it, i am glad you tried coming to his rescue but i tell you, it is a fruitless end.

most govt officials are professional lairs and they don't cease to sell craps to gullible Nigerians, (i don't mean you are one).

when the issue of subsidy came up, the truth was obvious but the agents of poverty twisted the truth, i wrote twice to the DG of NTA to grant me audience to sit with iweala and let her look me in the eye and tell those lies,

whether the contact add. i got was wrong or whether my request was merely sequestrated is a discussion for another day.

when iweala said she will reinvest the subsidy money, did you believe her? i for one didn't, where will the funds come from? what is the sharing formula? which projects are targeted and at what cost?

these unanswered questions are still the reasons why the presidency reduced its promise to kabu kabu aka ocho passengers bus transit because it was all lies.

i watched madueke on Tv when she said refineries are on the way, did you equally believe that N0nsense?
or the Mickey mouse of a cbn governor that said " increase in pump price will attract investors"
exactly how?

these people are professional lairs with updated credentials, two months on, they have tried the palliative of buses, no show, they tried BEGGING for refineries no show.
when exactly will they realize they have no workability plan for themselves and Nigeria at large.

Forget those inept beaf's employers and lets talk,
i have researched extensively the oil and gas structure of Nigeria and some screws don't fit.

there is no way the subsidy regime will affect local refining in an oil producing state like Nigeria with existing refineries rather it is quite the opposite but the Govt will tell you otherwise.

the problem of refining in Nigeria is COST OF RAW MATERIAL in this case CRUDE, it has absolutely nothing to do with subsidy,

lemme break it down for you,

if you import PMS from europe for instance and you land it at Apapa at 110 naira, Govt inefficiencies will bloat it to almost 150 naira you know why don't you? transport, storage, administrative costs has to be paid for.

juxtapose it with having a refinery on ground with cheap crude,

shell is saying that they cant run a refinery in Nigeria because they know the price at which the refinery will receive its crude and that is what they are indirectly telling you.

over the years, the Nigerian govt made no reasonable effort to drill independently of their JVs, so anything that requires crude must come at the cost of jv crude.

Assuming Nigeria on their own have a daily local production capacity of 250,000bbl/d do you think you need to beg shell, oando and co to build refineries? they will jump at the offer, Indians will move their make shift refineries instantly to Nigeria.

The difference between the JV crude and locally produced crude are thus;

1 indigenous or state owned companies foot the exploration bills but being state owned, their cost of funds are cheaper and the repayment plan is longer (eg the NLNG trains of 2000 are still being repaid till date)

2 there is no equity agreement aka royalty so everything is yours ( do you now understand why AFREN even with its paltry 150,000bbls are negotiating for a jv agreement)

these two factors will make the cost of the crude cheaper, because it is carrying only the burden of logistics without royalty.

if you go through the books of our multinationals, you will realize that the logistics involved in extracting  1bbl of crude ranges between 8usd to 15usd/bbl depending on the terrain. this is the actual cost of production.

if for instance, the cost on the international scene is 106.81usd/bbl, the profit marign is 106.81 - 15/8usd/bbl this is why oil companies are making it big in Nigeria.

let us place the refinery boys in tandem with the subsidy boys and see who is killing who.

if NPDC (state owned) executes an exploration project and flows oil at logistics cost of 15usd/bbl and makes profit of 3usd/bbl, Oando will buy that crude at 18usd/bbl if they wish to set up a refinery, even at 25usd/bbl it is still a good deal.

supposing OANDO has a 250,000bbl/d capacity refinery "EXISTING" in Nigeria, the cost of raw material in this case crude will be 250,000bbl/d X 18usd/bbl + refining cost of say 6usd/bbl,

oando can affort to sell their PMS at 40naira per litre and still make profit without subsidy.

now the importers land theirs at 110naira and govt inefficiencies throws them to almost 150naira and they go begging for subsidy if the govt decides to put a price tag of 97naira/l, remember that at 40 naira per litre OANDO is already making profit, so extrapolate what 97 naira will give?

it is commonsensical to assume that total deregulation will be activated and all importers will que up as Registered oando distributors.

Look at what our Govt is asking of shell

NPDC has a paltry 90,000bbl/d as locally produced at what price? guess? 106.81usd (international crude price)

now, beaf in his wildest dream is asking shell/OANDO to construct (for starters) 250,000bbl/d refinery and buy crude from either JV or NPDC at 106.81usd/bbl.

now 106.81usd X 250,000bbl/d + refining cost = over 35million usd dollars per day.

a litre of PMS from such a refinery will cost nothing less than 300 to 500 naira per litre if not more, the big question is ; will there be market for such expensive products? can Nigerians afford it? can the Nigerian govt afford to pay subsidy on such expensive product? for how long can they sustain the subsidy pending when the loans for constructing the refineries are repaid?

if you followed the subsidy probe closely, you will realize that if you subtract corruption from the figure so far, the subsidy paid on the products from the refineries were higher than that from imported products, that was the argument that NNPC was operating at a total loss but the Mickey mouse at CBN will tell you otherwise.

that was the calculations i did and told M0ronic beaf that shell will be silly to accept such trap and that is the reason the likes of Oando will never consider building a refinery till Nigeria can guarantee, locally produced crude oil at a cheaper price.



perhaps the shell MD just told beaf what he refused to accept from me, now he is threatening fire and brimstone,
a 23yr old agency that could have salvaged Nigeria's energy imbroglio was mismanaged and you sit to tell me there is a work around, well, im waiting and watching.

for the love of Christ, international oil companies are not our house boys, if you want refineries first fund it in part, guarantee a conducive business climate and they will gladly come and do business with you, enof said.

jp phillips, i will take a very deep breath before answering u, because when it comes to convincing u, d road ahead is a tough one,
let me start with the one illustration you gave, govt or govt owned npdc sells crude at $25 bbl to Oando?? so y do the rest of the world trade at $106 bbl? so what stops oando from collaborating with currupt govt officials to take this cheap crude and selling it for $80 on the international market to any of so many willing buyers, why should they settle for =N=3 profit, when an irresistable 300 to 400% profit is calling,
After creating a condition very juicy for sharp practices to occur, you would turn around to claim nigerians are too corrupt.

People who have decided to open their eyes see this same senario play itself out again and again, govt in an attempt to provide blanket subsidy to all tries to create an artificial and unrealistic price. They usually start by saying we r doing this to benefit the poor, at the end of the day the poor end up paying one way or the other because u just cannot cheat nature.
In delta state where i leave, drugs and certain hospital srvices r free acording to the records, but try getting any of the free drugs especially the expensive ones, one excuse or the other will be provided, until u go across the street opposite the govt owned hospital to pay for the drug, u end up paying for the free drug, a unreasonable subsidy system exist to encourage this type of corruption, i can attribute almost 80% of the corruption in this country to this from governance,

The problem i see with a lot of us nigerians is that what we call subsidy is very different from what forward and rational thinking societies ca

@jphilips
lets go back to first principles on this subsidy matter, not just oil subsidy, but subsidy in any form,
I can tell you now that the reason nigeria is poor and keeps being poor is because over the years govt with obviously very lean resources (which is further eroded by curruption), keeps decieving itself and nigerians that it will provide a blanket finding for all, this has been the practice over the years, govt promises to give you free health care, free education, free transport, free fuel etc etc etc and ends up failing, its simply not sustainable
I always wonder how we ever ended up practicing subsidy the way we do it, a blanket subsidy for all an sundry, reasonable countries dont do this, anybody who has been to a country where hard work reigns supreme and is rewarded knows that to qualify for subsidy is more than just showing ur face.

People will have u believe that there is subsidy because pms is being imported, if is was refined by govt locally, then there would be no subsidy, this very faulty arguement assumes that the oil is free, it also assumes that the land owners have no right to whats beneath them.

jphilips i dont know where u stand on govt run companies, but i am sure u know that its a no no in this modern era, throw in a high level of curruption and we have a retrogressing nation. While it seams you r helping poor people on the short term you are actually kiling off thier long term opportunities.

They way i see it, we need to set ourselves a target of say 10years. by which all exportation of raw crude from the country would stop. We should refine everything in-country, theres nothing stoping us but ourselves, but no govt run refineries, if nigeria has become an industrial nation by then we may even become a net importer of oil else we concentrate on exporting refined products worldwide,
no law says black man must always exist at subsistence level, na we vo use fake subsidy place ourselves there.

@jphilips subsidy in the blanket manner we practice it definately stops investors from venturing into the down stream sector because you cant expect private pple to invest millions into and industry and come up with a product price of between 130 to 150 naira, while govt run refineries are selling at 65 naira, operating profit margins are just too slim for this situation to occur.

the way i see it playing out, govt sells the existing four refineries to private concerns at highest bidder prices while others are built by other private people.

Somehow this thread has lasted 8 pages and counting because there is the mistaken assumption that GEJ drive to remodel the down stream sector requires the IOCs to build refineries, i wish someone would tell me where the downstream sector deregulation policy is pinned on IOCs building refineries. Its very strange the way people accepted this and even seriously argued for and against the strategy,

while i believe that it is well within governments powers to strategically demand that companies venture into activities outside their normal business activities. Asking shell to do so in nigeria would be A great mistake, for one main reason, oil companies are begining to seperate high risk high profit upstream sector from the low risk low profit downstream sector,

this is very logical, if shareholders are asked to invest 20 dollars the begining of the year for instance. 10 goes to the upstream arm and produces 5 or 6 dollars at the end of the year while the other 10 goes to the downstream arm and produces 2 dollars at years end, its already clear that 2 incompactible business models and operating phylosophies are being forced together.


For high risk high profit focussed companies like shell, refineries wont cut it any longer. Therir onvestors would rather put in the 20dollarz and get out 10 to 12dollars.

But does this mean we r doomed as the anti GEJ profhets would have us believe? some like alharem have even insinuated that deregulation means looking for foreign companies to build refineries to build for us, as if oando, conoil, orient etc have been ordered not to participate in the deregulated downstream sector,

So if shell is not going to build refineries, there is absolutely no need for alarm. Afterall someother companies who specialise in running refineries are buying them of shell abi.

Leemak:
People will soon pay d same tribute to dis useless, shoeless, selfish & clueless GEJ, Amen.

And how useful are you?