₦airaland Forum

Lukuluku69:
Don't conflate unrelated stuff. Ishmael and Ishmaelites are two different things. The former stands for Abraham's son while the latter stands for his descendants.

And I hope you know Edomites are descendants Esau: Issac son (Jacob's twin brother)
So, I ask again what was Ishmael offence with Jehovah?

The Bible was written by Jews they support their Nation against other Nation.

Bros Lukuluku69 that animosity that Ishmael had towards Isaac was carried on from generation to generation. Ishmael was fond of taunting Isaac, someone who God had established his covenant with. (Genesis 21:8,9)
This mistreatment that Ishmael had towards Isaac would go on for centuries to the point that the Psalmist had to record the Ishmaelites among the nations who hated Jehovah and his people (Psalm 83:1,2,5,6)

Well, the fact remains that the claim that Muhammad made concerning being a descendant of Ishmael will remain a CLAIM— as there's no evidence for such claims.
The fact that you keep lambasting God's Word just to elevate your forged religion highlights the irony of it all.

Lukuluku69:
You did not answer any of my poser perhaps attempt to answer them backed by Scriptures and not what some elders.

I repeat, who fathered Ishmael?
Was it recorded he worshipped other God aside his father God?
Any God commandment he broke?
Did he rebel against his father?
Let us start from there.

See my comment above yours.
Please it doesn't matter who fathered who here.
Isaac fathered both Esau(Edom) and Jacob.
Yet the Edomites are still listed among the haters of Jehovah and his people along with the Ishmaelites — Psalm 83:1,2,5,6

Lukuluku69:
According to your Bible, who fathered Ishmael?
Did the Bible EVER mentioned that Ishmael worshipped other God aside what his father taught him?
Was it EVER Recorded that Ishmael EVER rebel against his father?
Did you read in the Bible that Ishmael EVER go against God's command?
The problem with you guys is that you have been so brainwashed and blinded that you can't see beyond these Jewish Lies. Ishmael story was intentionally written out of the Bible by the Lying pen of the Jewish scribes and where he is mentioned, the story will be twisted to fit the Jewish narratives.

@bolded.
Actually according to God's Word, the Bible — the Ishmaelites were listed among the nations/tribes who hated Jehovah and his people.
Psalm 83:1,2,5,6
Verse 1 and 2
“O God, do not be silent; Do not keep quiet or still, O Divine One. For look! your enemies are in an uproar; Those who hate you act arrogantly. ”
Verse 5 and 6
“They devise a unified strategy; They have made an alliance against you—The tents of Eʹdom and the Ishʹma·el·ites , Moʹab and the Hagʹrites,.”

Please Lukuluku69 don't get angry that I'm using the Bible to disprove your claims

Lukuluku69:
According to your Bible, who fathered Ishmael?
Did the Bible EVER mentioned that Ishmael worshipped other God aside what his father taught him?
Was it EVER Recorded that Ishmael EVER rebel against his father?
Did you read in the Bible that Ishmael EVER go against God's command?
The problem with you guys is that you have been so brainwashed and blinded that you can't see beyond these Jewish Lies. Ishmael story was intentionally written out of the Bible by the Lying pen of the Jewish scribes and where he is mentioned, the story will be twisted to fit the Jewish narratives.

Bros Lukaku 69
Jehovah God is not in any covenant with your forefather Ishmael (Genesis 17:21)
So it seems you're worshiping an unknown god that can't settle disputes between its adherents.

@bolded, it shows how far you can go to smear the Bible, which is the only inspired Word of God in order to elevate your forged religion.

Primesky:
If you stay away from what you don't know or at least be humble enough to ask questions, will they change your name?. Always quick to utter invectives at others.

Before man sinned in the garden of Eden, was there corruption/death of the flesh of man?. Answer the question!.

Sin brought death to man and the world at large. Jesus brought life, and was the first to assume this new body by which also he promised those who believe in him that this will also be granted to them.

Tell us, would Adam and Eve have experienced death/corruption if they hadn't sinned against God's word, though they're were flesh. Answer this question before you shake off your head and call others clown.

Boss Primesky calm down let's discuss nah

1. Primesky : If you stay away from what you don't know or at least be humble enough to ask questions, will they change your name?. Always quick to utter invectives at others.

DappaD : When you tell me who made you owner of Nairaland, I won't quote you again. In as much as I may not know anything, like you said, there's absolutely nothing I can learn from you.




2. Primesky : Before man sinned in the garden of Eden, was there corruption/death of the flesh of man?. Answer the question!.

DappaD : Yes Adam, even though perfect, had a corruptible body.
However, his perfect body was not to decay/corrupt/die until he sinned. When he sinned, he became a slave to corruption. Then he passed on that “enslavement to corruption” to all his earthly descendants including you and I (Romans 5:12, 8:20-22)

Let me put it better to understand. When Adam sinned, he began aging and then sickness and other health issues spawned as well — which corresponds to this “enslavement to corruption” — Romans 8:20-22


3. Primesky : Sin brought death to man and the world at large. Jesus brought life, and was the first to assume this new body by which also he promised those who believe in him that this will also be granted to them.

DappaD : Yes yes you got it. Romans 5:12, John 3:16, 1John 5:13
On the matter of who gets the prize of immortality, that's a whole other discussion altogether.

Jehovah God has been immortal from time indefinite (Psalm 90:2,Timothy 1:17, Revelation 15:3)
Jesus after he conquered the world received the prize of immortality. (Romans 6:9) That's why he is the only other person other than Jehovah who has immortality (1Timothy 6:15,16 , Hebrews 7:15,16)
Only anointed Christians who number a 144,000 according to Revelation 7:4, 14:1-3 will receive the prize of immortality after they have conquered the world as well — 1Corinthians 15:42-54, Revelation 3:21 – so that the total number of 144,000 will rule as kings and priests along with Jesus in the Millennium (1Peter 1:3-4, 2Timothy 2:12, Revelation 1:6, 20:4,6)


4. Primesky : Tell us, would Adam and Eve have experienced death/corruption if they hadn't sinned against God's word, though they're were flesh. Answer this question before you shake off your head and call others clown.

DappaD : See Number 2.



BOTTOM LINE :
A PERFECT body isn't the same as an IMMORTAL body. A perfect body is not a slave to corruption. An imperfect body is a slave to corruption.
Meanwhile, an immortal body is indestructible and cannot see corruption whatsoever the case. That's why the angels in heaven aren't immortals. If the angels were immortals then it would impossible for Satan and his demons to be destroyed (Matthew 25:41,46, Hebrews 2:14, 1John 3:8, Revelation 20:10)

Humanoid01:
[s]If you could take a moment to ponder on this question, you'd discover how dumb it actually seems.[/s]

You could do better to enlighten him if you believe God isn't the cause of the world's mishaps.
Absolutely no need to resort to insults.

Primesky:
You're just confusing yourself. The body Jesus resurrected with is flesh and incorruptible. You even quoted it, yet you're dancing around.

1 Corinth 15:44 is very clear, stop misqouting and twisting it. The Bible tells us that when Jesus shall come, within the twinkling of an eye we in this corruptible flesh shall be changed into incorruptible body, to meet him in the air. It is not a Spirit.

It's not true that Jesus was manifesting different bodies after resurrection, please stop adding to the scripture what is not there.

The question I asked you was, if Jesus didn't rise with physical body, why did he bear the injuries sustained at crucifixion, and why would he present it as an evidence to his disciples?.

The angels of old you talked about that ate human food, did they do so as spirits or in flesh, so what's your point?. Jesus who is Spirit, came in the form of man and maintained that state even after death, but after resurrection, he had a glorified body which is incorruptible.

Go, and read John chapter 20 again. Read from the bigining, after Jesus rose from the dead physically in flesh, the first person to meet him was Mary, he forbade her from touching him, why?. Could she touch a ghost?.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God means a totally different thing from what you're saying. We're all human beings in the flesh, yet some of us are reffered to as spiritual, while others are natural -1 Corinth 2:14.

You cannot inherit the kingdom of God by using the wisdom of men and standards set by natural men. It has to be by the power and guidance of the Holy Spirit, that was why, before Jesus ascended into heaven, he warned his disciples not to go anywhere until they be filled with the Holy Spirit, which he had promised to send, why?. Because he knew they cannot succeed without Him(Holy Spirit).

How come Jesus made this promise, yet you still say that that person of the Holy Spirit doesn't exist?. You don't belive in Jesus then!. Simple!.

Please how can somebody put FLESH and INCORRUPTIBLE in the same sentence?
You religious clowns won't cease to amaze me

Dtruthspeaker:
Because you are not able to ask any reasonable question, therefore, you have become ridiculous and have begun insulting!

He promised that it wouldn't get to insults

Maximus69:
That's just the mouth to mouth tales that people often tell their children nah, even here in Africa we have such tales but since there is nothing like documentation people just kept fabricating the stories.
Muhammad must have heard that he descended from the linage of Ishmael (Abraham's first child) so after learning from the Jews about the promise of a saviour through whom the earth will be saved, the guy put it upon himself that he must be that promised child, so he wish Jesus is just a prophet like any other in order for him to be the promised Prophet Moses foretold.

But could it truly be Muhammad?

First of all God's angel told Hagai Ishmael's mother that her child and his generations will be terrorists {Genesis 16:11-12} God told Abraham not to think of Ishmael as the child through whom the promised saviour will be born {Genesis 18-21} So even if Muhammad truthfully descended through Ishmael, God said it's not through that lineage that the saviour will be born and that Ishmael's race will be terrorists!


Secondly Moses actually told the Israelites who are the descendants of Isaac not Ishmael that it's from amongst their brothers that the saviour will be born, and that the foretold prophet will be like him (Moses). Moses served as a prophet and as a God in his lifetime {Exodus 7:1} so Isaiah foretold that the promised Messiah will also serve as God {Isaiah 9:6}

Lastly God supported Moses before asking him to present himself before the Israelites and Pharaoh with great signs just as Jesus also performed signs as the evidence that God sent them. Muhammad never performed a single sign and never lived an exemplary life. So it's preposterous saying he could ever be the one sent by Jehovah the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Though i'm not doubting if a god sent him just like GuruMaharaji at Ibadan but i'm certain certain that it's not the God of Abraham who sent Muhammad!

I've given thought to the words in italics before now.
Jehovah specifically said he would establish his covenant with Isaac, Abraham's son(Genesis 17:21)
It would be presumptuous on Muhammad's part(that is, if he was truly Ishmael's descendant) to think he was part of that covenant in some way because God didn't say he would establish any covenant with Ishmael — just that He would make Ishmael into a great nation(Genesis 17:20)

Well if indeed Muhammad is a descendant of Ishmael, it should be noted that he's fulfilling prophecy of Jehovah at Genesis 16:12 – that Ishmael and his descendants would live in hostility with each other as brothers. But it should be further noted that Muhammad and the rest of his forged religion have no connection whatsoever with the Almighty God, Jehovah.

TATIME:
Muslims are the most dumb set of religionsists ever! How can someone from a race tell me someone is a prophet of a God who often call himself the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Israel) when such a prophet is not related to the lineage?
Then you're now telling me that he is the prophet God sent to all other races including mine, but there is no evidence, no miracles no signs other than a fabricated book written by the same person!
And to worsen matter adherents of this Religion don't have LOVE for fellow members, once the love for racism comes to mind the next thing is our dear FAITH is of no importance anymore so we can start killing one another!

If that's how worship should be, why not kuku continue worshiping the deities of our black ancestors? After all there was relative peace and order in our land before these books were brought to us?

Jehovah's Witnesses Organization have removed hatred and racism from the heart of all those adhering to their Faith, you want to tell me that one is false but Islam that can't even solve the dispute between Iraq and Iran who are two die-hard Islamic countries is now preferred!

Please Maximus tell me you're joking, Lukuluku69 can't be that advanced in age!

I think the Muhammad even made an erroneous claim that he was a fleshly descendant of Ishmael
These religious clowns

TATIME:
He just think the Arabian religion the Fulanis forced down the throats of his ancestors was the right religion!
He wants to talk about light when an Apostate is posting rumours against a well organized and orderly religious group where LOVE, JOY and PEACE reigns!

I wonder what he was thinking when he said to me "you left the true faith", so Islam with all the killings even amongst fellow believers is the true faith abi?

Perhaps he's just a teenager Sha!

This Lukuluku69 ehn, I've never seen such heightened stupidity portrayed by a human before.
The same Lukuluku69 even attempted to guilt trip JW's because we don't participate in wars – he went ahead to say

it's the elders who brainwash JW's to not to go to war

– something he tagged ‘LIES and Manipulations’ . But when I showed him that it's the Bible that's guiding all of us JW's so we don't to engage in war(Psalm 46:9, Isaiah 2:4, Matthew 26:52), the young man has kept mute and refused to respond to me ever since.

TATIME:
Muhammad was a pauper, he became a servant of Kadijat (a lady Marchant) he used to travel with his lady to trade centers like Rome and Jerusalem, that's how he came in contact with Judaists and Kadijat was a Catholic.
Muhammad fabricated everything our of what he gathered from Judaism, Roman Catholic, Buddhists and other pagan trade centers he travels to with his lady merchant (Kadijat).
Kadijat notice how reserved Muhammad is so she seduced the young guy and after the illicit affair between Kadijat (40 years) and Muhammad (25) they legalized their union.
That's how Muhammad got his first wife but he continues to deceive Arabians saying God has called him. Most Arabs were laughing at the gigolo who married his boss. So Muhammad targeted their slaves, telling them "you're not slaves to anyone but God"
The slaves were willing to follow Muhammad who made them feel like his equal but what about their owners? That's what led him out of Mecca because the slave masters wanted their slaves back but Muhammad told the slaves to fight for their own freedom. So his first set of disciples were slaves, they never had any faith in Muhammad nor his fabricated God but in their liberty!
After the battle that claimed the lives of many from both sides the masters forsake their runaway slaves but most of other slaves began running away from their owners to join Muhammad as they are seeing how free those following him has become.
That's how he began deceiving them by disguising as someone who went in trance only to start mimicking whatever he could recollect in the things he gathered from Judaism, Catholic Church, Buddhists and other claiming it was revelations from Gabriel.
So what is the name of the God that sent the angel to Muhammad? He can't mention any of the deities inside the Kabah in Mecca neither should be mention the name of Jehovah the God of their enemy nation (Israel) so Muhammad just say his name is Allah (God).
That led to another confusion because God is just a title any there were many deities known by that title, that's why Muhammad began relating the story that he can't remember in a chronological order. If you have the time, please download a soft copy of the Qur'an and start reading, you'll notice how confused the one relating the story is!
So Muhammad fabricated the whole thing, but in the land of the blinds an eyed man is their King, since he has travelled with his sugar mommy (Kadijat) who was enjoying the warmth of a younger man with whom he (Muhammad) got all these half baked information while traveling for business!

The origin of Islam summarised
No wonder the entire association of Muslims are in TOTAL confusion

“BY THEIR FRUITS YOU WILL RECOGNIZE THEM” — These words of Jesus should be echoing in the mind of any right thinking person! (Matthew 7:16,20)

Maximus69:
Please read what Muhammad told his gullible followers that couldn't save them from fellow Muslims when common politicians instigates them to start killing themselves!

Please is it true that forgers of the Quran took excerpts from the Bible to construct their book?

Lukuluku69:
Yeah I know JW did not fight because you guys have been told by your Elders not to defend your honour, Family and Lives. That is what your Elders says. Is that what the Bible says? Jehovah taught David hands to war abi you never read that part yet or una don edit am? Jesus asked his disciples to sell garments and buy swords! Here are 2 SWORDS! Some says and Jesus said "it is enough" Enough for what? At least DEFENCE.

Yeah you did not fight because your Elders say so and not what the Bible says. You can "see the Lies and Manipulations" now? Abi you need Specs?

When Jesus told his disciples to equip themselves with swords at Luke 22:36, he did not have DEFENSE or PROTECTION in mind .
Jesus is known to teach through lessons. That's why later that night when Peter used the sword to cut off the ear of the slave Malchus, Jesus told Peter to “Return your sword to its place, for all those who take up the sword will perish by the sword” — Matthew 26:52 to further teach Peter and his disciples that they must be “no part of the world” John 17:16

So you see that's how Jehovah's Witnesses learn the truth from the Bible — we take into consideration the context and the message. Something that you will never see any other group claiming Christian do.
Jehovah's Witnesses intend to imitate the examples of Jesus and his disciples by keeping ourselves “without spot from the world” — James 1:27
And that's why you'll never see Jehovah's Witnesses participate in war or war-related circumstances because we know from the Bible that God will bring an end to all the wars and we ourselves have demonstrated that by not going to war — Psalm 46:9, Isaiah 2:4

Lukuluku69:
Of course you can't see when people messes with your mind and that was not the only question you asked! Go back and read your post.

Still going round and round in circles I see.

Lukuluku69:
Of course I don't expect you to see the Lies and the Manipulations you are on the inside. So, they will remain ALLEGATIONS to YOU.

Please tell me when over 50m souls perished during the WWI and another 100m souls perished during WWII it was Islam that instigate the Muslims to do it? Those warring Nations in Europe were Muslims? Germany, Great Britain, Italy, Poland, France were Muslims?

.

Oga Lukuluku69 can you see these ‘LIES and Manipulations’ and identify it please? Can it be seen? Is it tangible?

That's the only question I asked you

Lukuluku69:
Of course I don't expect you to see the Lies and the Manipulations you are on the inside. So, they will remain ALLEGATIONS to YOU.

Please tell me when over 50m souls perished during the WWI and another 100m souls perished during WWII it was Islam that instigate the Muslims to do it? Those warring Nations in Europe were Muslims? Germany, Great Britain, Italy, Poland, France were Muslims?

They were not Muslims so who could they possibly be?
Did you ever hear of Jehovah's Witnesses being involved with WW1, WW2 or any wars since then?

Did Muslims fight in the wars or did they not?
You're going to rope yourself today

Lukuluku69:
The guy never mentioned anything about Islam, Muslim or The Quran, he only talked about his awakening witg JW Org. LIES and Manipulations of their elders. That was what I referred to by him seeing the "Light".

It has nothing to do with Islam and Maximus69 is quite aware but he choose the part of deceit and deflection.

‘LIES and Manipulations’
Keep in mind that these will remain allegations.
And you can't actually see these ‘LIES and Manipulations’ with your eyes or at work in any of JW's.

Can we say the same about your ISLAM? But shey the whole world can actually see the ripple effects of your religion right? — claim to be a religion of peace BUT all of you are politically divided which is clearly shown in today's politics. Some Muslims try to force their religion on others — using brute force. Your religious group has been associated with the numerous terrorists attacks and killings but at home and abroad. Just to mention a few.
WOULD YOU CALL THESE FALSE ALLEGATIONS OR THE ACTUAL TRUTH?
Because people actually see these things happen oo

Remember the ‘LIES and Manipulations’ of JW's you can neither see it nor can you prove it.
But your religious group has everly proved itself to the whole world time and time again

Kobojunkie:
What you posited has absolutely nothing to do with the first Christians or Jesus Christ. Suggesting that Jesus Christ shows how little you understand of God's truth

Okay so why did the Bible keep record of the number of Christians who received holy spirit on the day of Pentecost 33 C.E. ? — they numbered about 120 Christians in the room that Peter was speaking (Acts 1:15)

Or why did the Scriptures keep record of those who got baptized thereafter? — 3,000 people (Acts 2:41)

Maximus69:
Haba! Na so the thing pain you reach?
Abeg no vex a no dey worry you, na you want kill yourself because of God's organization whereas there's no accusations you can level against them that's not found elsewhere.

So why particular about JWs only if you're not killing yourself?

@bolded has said it all Sir! Luke 11:23
we will continue to obey God's word! Hebrew 10:24-25

Just look at all your posts below and tell me if you are not slowly killing yourself because of Jehovah's Witnesses Organization!

That's why I called him a NON-AFFILIATED ATHEIST
He claims his mind is free from JW's but it's clear from the allegations he has laid here and there on our beloved Organization that he's still being tormented by the thought of not being among the true worshipers of God anymore!

I called him an ATHEIST because apart from denying that God and his true organization exists, he can even go as far as DENYING his own existence as a human being just to carry out his agenda!

Kobojunkie:
The Truth of God is a game of numbers to you then? Interesting!

How convenient to shift from the topic of discussion.

Maximus69:
I hope this doesn't end in insults, abuses and curses!

I hope so too ooh
People dey fear truth

sonmvayina:
Funny you.. He was referring to the next prophet, his end was drawing near.. The next prophet will be Joshua..
No burnt offering.. They are for unintentional sins, it must be a she goat, without blemish.. I do that every first Saturday of December in my village. But for other sins, God demands a sincere repentance.. I do make wrong choices, sometimes like anyone else.. but I always pull my self up and try harder next time.. There is no righteous man who never sinned.

Okay.

sonmvayina:
Provide the quotes from those books... I will accept Jesus as my Lord and personal saviour.. I will say it loud..

Debt. 18:15 " yaweh your God will raise a prophet like me, you will listen to him. From among you.."..

So where is the Jesus here..

Moses end was near and he was admonishing the people to listen to next prophet that God was going to raise from among the people.. The next prophet was Joshua..

What do you suppose it was talking about.?

Jehovah had already appointed Joshua to take the place of Moses (Numbers 27:18-23)
So who is this ‘Prophet’ at Deuteronomy 18:15-18? It didn't apply to Joshua so who was that place talking about?

sonmvayina:
Genesis to deuteronomy is the laws of God .. The others are just the history of the Jews.. And how they have been persecuted..

Okay.

@bolded, Who does sonmvayina think Moses is referring to at Deuteronomy 18:15-18?

Does sonmvayina offer burnt and guilt sacrifices for the forgiveness of his sins according to the book Leviticus or not?

@italicized, I seem to remember on this nairaland that you misconstrued the meaning of Ecclesiastes 12:7 to fit your reincarnation concept. Don't you believe in Ecclesiastes and the other parts of the Old Testament?

sonmvayina:
genesis to Deuteronomy is the Torah...

Do you take the entire Old Testament as a whole? As in Genesis to Malachi? Or you choose to pick the books that suits you to obey?

sonmvayina:
Lol.. Very funny.. Outrageous views.. What you Christians call the old testament belongs to the Jews, they wrote for their national religion called Judaism..they call it the tanakh. When the Romans became world empire, they stole it.. And attached their own writing at the end of it and called the new book the Bible..
There is no where in the entire tanakh (old testament) where God said he was going to send his son, for us to murder him and Believe in his death in other to be saved.. If you can provide it I will become a Christian this night... If you can't why should I take it serious?.. It means it was never God's idea... It is a fabrication.. I can't fall for it... Time and time again God says come let us reason together, confess and forsake your evil ways, I will forgive.... Never mention of the messaiah dying for sin.. To believe those Christians assertions, you have to suspend the use of logic and your brain.. If you can, then anything is believable...

I just follow God's laws, and live each day..

See Deuteronomy 18:15 on the bolded words.


You claim to read the OT but you fail to realize that Moses, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Amos, Micah, Zechariah all gave corresponding prophecies about the Messiah — Jesus.

Angel1696:
u are not intelligent guy read with understanding

OK! I'm not intelligent I agree

You that is intelligent, why can't you cook up your story a little better then?

Angel1696:
Are u people on the same computer typing and replying peeps read my story from the beginning and follow carefully with understanding and stop acting ignorantly

You sef go back and read all the things you've typed so far and see if they ALL correlate

Angel1696:
Guy your doctrines looks enticing but practicing it is difficult. U guys make law A and turn around to practice law B

So upon viewing the online article you were shocked abi?
We're awaiting your updated story.

Angel1696
Biko why are you dodging me?

Our bros has changed story again o

Angel1696:
she has been twice into relationship with two jw yet still break up asshole

Angel1696:
I don't and will never smoke what u jwmaniacs smoke she was with her divorced mum and gain admission into uni but her demonic father said unless she baptize b4 he can support his own biological daughter in school is that not absolute wickedness on your jw member. Jwmaniacs

What have I said concerning lies on this thread?

DappaD:
Like I've earlier mentioned on this thread, if you people are going to tell lies then please do it intelligently! Your father Satan is intelligent so imitate him

Bros Angel1696 anybody that wants to know you've been telling LIES should go through this link:
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/jw-children-accept-faith-preach/

Even you sef you won't believe your eyes
After checking out the link come back here and change your story again