₦airaland Forum

TAO11:

I asked you to bring proof of Ife existing between 1100 and 1800, u brought a “them say“ document about Benin. You don’t understand my request or it is difficult and impossible to bring anything about Ife?

macof:
ọdẹ, it's not everything you read online you should take seriously.
If anyone tells you Jerusalem is Ijebu Salem how is that Yoruba people's business? Did we send the person? Does auch person speak from Yoruba history?

Gtfoh with your inferiority complex when you lot have finished your online war you will rest
Ants

Mugu then I shouldn’t take you and your likes seriously when u come online to claim a fictitious Ife greatness.

macof:
Lmao. Because I say you suffer from inferiority complex you have started using my own words
We know who thinks themselves small, those who are really small

So "inferiority complex or pests" is your own words? no wonder you Yorubas also claimed Jerusalem is Ijebu, historically know as Jebu Isalem and Queen of Sheba was buried there lol.. you guys are insane.
well you claimed Benin too so I'm not really suprised..

If you have encountered any Edo man before you will know who actually sees themselves big, and those who are really small.

TAO11:
And then, as usual, you finally ran away after running out of lies to tell.

Moreover, there was never a time in the course of all my exchange with you where you've ever uttered even one word (falsehood or truth) in reply to the historical fact that [b]the Ooni of Ife was suzerain, imperial, and divine over Benin kingdom.[/b]

The most you did on this specific issue was your complain that I should not simply provide you with the detailed references to the quoted scholarly submissions; but that I should also help you with finding the books, perhaps because you are too lazy, broke, or technically challenged to find the books yourself.

So, your spin that you attached a Wikipedia screenshot (smh) and "links" (what link?) addressing this issue is yet another example of your white lies.

Your Wikipedia screenshot simply mentioned that bronze/brass casting in Benin kingdom can be traced to the 13th century. And this, as I have shown, agrees with the Benin tradition and historical fact that bronze/brass casting was introduced into Benin kingdom from Ife during the reign of Oba Oguola of Benin kingdom (1280 - 1295).

In sum, no fictitious people (not even your fellow Binis) viewing this saw you post anything (falsehood or truth) in response to the historical fact that [b]the Ooni of Ife was suzerain, imperial, and divine over Benin kingdom.[/b]

Deal with the detailed references to the quotes as I have provided them, and stop chickening out. Or have you already done so?

Ooni of Ife that was no longer recognized as relevant by his fellow yoruba kingdoms will be overlord over the most powerful kingdom? something must be wrong with you.
The acclaimed greatness of Ife was already a myth at the start of the Oba dynasty in Benin.. It is generally believed Ife was no longer in existence as a kingdom when Eweka dynasty started and from 1100 to 1800s Ife is potrayed as a little less populated village and sometimes abadoned due to invasions. It had already been reduced to a mere village that had an Oracle good at divination.

why don't you come up with something that shows Ife as a kingdom anytime between 1200-1800.. If you believe your Ife to be that great, then come up with proof from within that period that shows Ife was relevant and important..
Ooni of Ife was NEVER Lord over any Oba of Benin.

macof:
These bini people really looking for enemies up and down and they just might get one out of the Yoruba if they continue with this attitude and will need to be taught a lesson so they can shut up. Tiny insignificant people really becoming pests to everyone

who is the everyone you are referring to? I don't see Benin arguing with other tribes. It's the Yoruba with their inferiority complex that tries to use Benin (the only renown greatest kingdom) as a measure of their own greatness.. you are your own pest.

TAO11:
cc: davidnazee, gregyboy

Catching Some Fun Off His Bigotry:
-----------------------------------------------------------
To tease him a little by indulging his outstanding idiocy, let's pretend for the moment that the absence of a name from Roupell's king-list truly means that such a name is a latter forgery, or that such a person does not exist altogether.

If he is to be consistent with such warped and insanely idiotic reasoning, then his conclusion will be that Talbot et al. continues to decieve all Binis (including their Obas till date) into thinking that the reigning Oba is the 40th when he should in fact be the 27th.

This is because Roupell's king-list shows only 23 pre-1897 Benin Obas, whereas you all have been deceived till date into thinking that there are 36 pre-1897 Benin Obas.

A deception of only 13 forged and fabricated Benin Obas isn't that bad I guess!

I never for once thought the Edos are smart people anyways.

Now, this is an example of the bitter dead-ends that bigotry always dumps people like you.

Cheers!

Only a shallow person can come up with this type of reasoning and you never fail to disappoint..
About Roupell's list.. how can He miss such an interesting and astonishing information during his research? If indeed the greatest Kingdom during his time was founded by a mere and dilapitated village some kilometers away he would have surely benn told and would have mentioned it in his book..
When he was compling his list he would have been told the oramiyan story if it really happened.. Roupell did his reseach in Benin in 1898 and there was no mention of Oramiyan founding Benin kingdom.. Talbot got his story from Yorubas in 1926.

No matter how much audio claim you will play, it doesn't sell.. If you like write all your long nonsense, it still doesn't prove anything..

TAO11:
cc: davidnazee, gregyboy


Informing the Sane Public:
-------------------------------------------

(i) Regarding davidnazee's first claim about the absence of Oranmiyan's name from Roupell's king-list, it is well known (except to the unacquainted) that some traditional Benin accounts (on one hand) regard Oranmiyan's stay at Benin as being simply to the effect of laying the foundation for the new dynasty without he himself actually ruling officially as Oba.

While the other traditional Benin accounts (on another hand) maintain that while he was at Benin, Oranmiyan did in fact rule Benin Kingdom as Oba.

The contention is about whether or not he was officially Oba. None of these two traditional Benin accounts mentions anywhere (or even suggests) that Oranmiyan did not visit Benin, or that he did not establish a dynasty in Benin.

In fact, it is obvious from the two accounts that there is a crystal clear agreement to the effect that Oranmiyan did indeed visit Benin, and that he did indeed establish a dynasty there.

An evidence of the existence of these two traditional views (among the Binis) played out during Oba Ewuare2's coronation ceremony where when he should have been pronounced the 39th Oba (considering the chronology adopted by the reign(s) before him), he in fact, pronounced himself the 40th Oba thus identifying with the other chronology.

In the light of this underlying background information, it therefore becomes crystal clear which of these two traditional Benin views Roupell was getting his king-list information from in Benin in the year 1898, considering the opening name in his king-list.


(ii) Regarding davidnazee's second claim, G. A. Akinola (1976), p.21-22. whom the first part of this claim comes from writes and I quote here:

" ... the earliest written record of the tradition ascribing the foundation of the present Benin dynasty to an Ife prince was by Talbot some time in the third decade of this century."

G. A. Akintola writing in the year 1976 asserts that the earliest written record of an Ife origin for Benin's present dynasty was by P. A. Talbot (1926).

However, a broader and more contemporary examination of the present updated knowledge on the Ife-Benin relationship shows clearly that G.A. Akinola (and anyone before him with similar thoughts) was quite limited in his access to the earliest extant documents on the subject.

His assertion in this regard is therefore terribly mistaken as a more updated access to the earliest extant documents on the subject will show.

Some 28 years after G. A. Akinola's work, in the year 2004, the prominent and prolific Russian anthropologist, africanist, and historian of pre-colonial Benin Kingdom, Dmitri M. Bondarenko did confirm in his "Advent of the Second ("Oba" ) Dynasty" that there exists early-1500s European writings which records the Ife origin of the present Benin dynasty.

Earlier yesterday, gregyboy interestingly supported this point by helping to highlight some more details which sheds light on these early-1500s European writings.

Some of the details he highlighted include that these early-1500s European writings confirm that the Kings of Benin Kingdom are descended from the Ooni of Ife. ... Nothing can be more emphatic.

In sum, davidnazee's delusions that Talbot made up the story from thin air (a statement with zero scholarly support to begin with), therefore, evaporates in the light of deeper, broader and more objective scrutiny.

You are still finding it difficult to get past your audio claim of Ife founding Benin Kingdom.. Where is your evidence or any early written account before Talbot story confirming Ife as founders of Benin Kingdom? Both traditional accounts you mentioned were first heard after Talbot story and not before..

Bondarenko you quoted as saying that early-1500s European writings which records the Ife origin of the present Benin dynasty exits never cited any of the records in his book, if it indeed existed he would have written about it in his book rather than speculate.

You are just a talker, nothing else.. Just like Yoruba recordless history, so also is your foolish claim.. no record or evidence.

TAO11:
While you're a stark ignoramous (as you've admitted), you can't also be arrogant.

You have to make up your mind on one.

Now listen to yourself: [b]You know the Pope was King.[/b] So what's your point?

Okay, now listen arrogant ignoramous (lol): The name of the Kingdom is:

Regnum Pontificium. The Papal Kingdom.

So, how does this name now help anything about your miserable ignorant self??

I knew long ago that you're a compound fool!

Why are you always so angry?? You can't win an arguement you result to insults.. Well all that doesn't change the fact that you are dumb and shallow..
anyways since u keep asking for sources that won't change your mind on your deluded beliefs here is some for u.
The first attachment is a list of Obas compiled at different times. the circle indicates a list from 1898.. There is no mention of Oranmiyan there, till the Talbot list from 1930..
The second attachment confirms Talbot as being the first person to decieve the Yorubas that Oduduwa/Oramiyan founded Benin Kingdom.

Now you can continue with your foolish arguement.

TAO11:
All I see here is nothing but emotional outbursts devoid of logic, evidence and reason.

And your 500 years lie has long been debunked by D. M. Bondarenko.

That is already shown in the attachment of my first reply to you.

And the Pope was King over the Papal States in the Italian Peninsula.

You didn't know this already, yet you think you're worthy to untie the straps of my sandals. Shocking!

Kisses! hahahaha

I know the pope was considered as king over those Papal States but those states regarded Rome as their capital which was ruled by an emperor.
Anyways I was expecting to hear the name of the kingdom the pope was king of.

TAO11:
All I see here is nothing but emotional outbursts devoid of logic, evidence and reason.

And your 500 years lie has long been debunked by D. M. Bondarenko.

That is alreay shown in the attachment of my first reply to you.

Kisses! hahahaha

Still more nonsense from you. You can’t help it.
Just answer (maybe your opinion) why there was no account of oduduwa/Oranmiyan founding Benin Kingdom till 1930 when Talbot told you guys..

TAO11:
(1) Since over a month now, you've been struggling and unable to cite at least one scholar (just one) whom you got this from.

It therefore remains audio as usual.

(2) Eweka's prayer to the then Oghene of IFE is not what makes Oghene the founder of Benin's present dynasty.

Rather, it is the fact that the first Oghene of Ife was the founder of Benin's dynasty that makes Eweka revere him in prayer.

So, here you committed the logical fallacy known in argumentation as "the converse fallacy".

Furthermore, your Pope analogy demolishes your point as follows:

In ancient times, the Pope was not only the spiritual leader of the Roman Catholic Church, he was also a King --- just like the "Oghene of Ife".

So, any European King who pays him homage does so because his (the lesser king's) theocratic government was established by the theocratic government of the Roman Catholic Church/the Pope.

Name me one European Kingdom of old who was not Roman Catholic but yet subject to the Roman Catholic Church/the Pope.

The dull davidnazee is quick to point fingers. How ironic!?

(3) You probably meant to write the following:

"... why will the Oba in the 1920s call Ooni as Oghene?"

And the simple answer is that the Binis as a whole (not only the Obas) referred to the Oonis as Oghene because the Ooni was considered to be their Supreme God (in human flesh).

The use of Oghene for Ooni was a Benin thing, and at no point in the course of my comments did I ever mention that the Europeans too are Binis.

Guess what! Even in as recent as the year 2004, Omo N'Oba Erediauwa(I) still mentioned that Binis called Ife King Oghene --- thus proving again that ability to pronounce the word "Ooni" is not the bone of contention.

All this your write up still makes no sense and it still doesn’t answer why in over 500yrs of documented European relationship with Edos and Yorubas the story of Oduduwa founding Benin empire was never mentioned till in 1930 when Talbot first wrote about it.

Your idiotic statement about Oghene as a god to binis is utter nonsense not worth arguing about, u can believe whatever u like.

Please which kingdom was the pope king of?

TAO11:
(1) Of course no Ooni ever visited on ascension because the Oonis are intentionally and deliberately asserting their supremacy over Benin Kingdom knowing how deluded you Binis are.

Yet, them no born any new Benin King well make he no pay homage to Ife on ascension.

I am not sure why you couldn't figure this out yourself.

(2) Every Yoruba King whose crown derives directly from Ife (e.g Oyo's, Benin's, and several others) must consolidate certain ascension rites at Ife --- particularly at the Oranmiyan grove.

(3) Eeerrrrm ... I have already exposed your 1930s revision (which is without any evidence to begin with) when I gave you good reason to push back your date some more years. Hahahahaha

(4) And your nauseating 500years has long been debunked by .... not me .... guess who ... D. M. Bondarenko.

I alluded to that too in my foregoing comment.

I don't like calling a person dumb even though you sound like one..
Anyways my statement was "it was in 1930 the story of Oduduwa founding Benin monarchy was first written and heard" the your reply to that is a statement about Oba Eweka praying to Oghene lol.. does that mean the Oghene founded Benin Kingdom?
European kings of old are known to revere and pray to the pope, but does that mean the pope founded their kingdoms?
You are not a smart person, that is for certain..

Another question.. why will the Oba in 1930 call Ooni as Oghene? As at 1930, the europeans and also everyone knew Ooni as Ooni and called him Ooni.

TAO11:
Read my comment again, but this time remember to do so with all relevant senses.

Summary:
Every new Benin King must visit Ife to pay homage at key sites as attested to by Channels TV during Oba Ewuare2's visit to Ife upon his ascension.

And of course new Ife kings have no business paying homage at Benin kingdom because Benin Kingom is simply one of his dynasties through one of his sons.

The son pays homage to the father to consolidate and confirm his right to rule Benin kingdom.

It never happens anywhere that the father (on his ascension) should pay homage to his son . Never! Abomination!

The best the father can do is to grace his son's coronation.

This version should be easier for you to grasp. It's shorter.

You should read your own post again then.. You said "there's no record that any Ooni ever visited Benin" (I assume you mean Benin Palace).. so I'm asking what you think is the reason for the non visits to Benin palace. considering that, Benin is one of the greatest Kingdoms in Nigeria and your Ooni is a well known Owanbe Ooni.. He visits every where and every parties.. So there must be a traditional or historic reason why no Ooni ever visits Benin palace.. Almost every ruler in Nigeria has visited or attended a function at the Benin Palace.
FYI; Ooni has attended birthday parties in Benin city.

Also can you please tell us how many Yoruba Obas go pay homage at Ife after their coronations?
And why did the story of Ife founding Benin Empire suddenly come up in 1930 and not anytime in the 500years european relationship with Edos and Yorubas?

TAO11:
There is so much ignorance in your reply that I'm not even sure where to begin educating you from.

(1) Oranmiyan's "burial" has absolutely nothing to do with the Orun Oba Ado site.

From your bungle here, it becomes very obvious that this subject is clearly not your forte. Yet for some strange reasons you won't just lurk in the background and watch quietly.

Now listen, while the Orun Oba Ado site is one place, Oranmiyan grove is another separate distinct and entirely different place.

The Orun Oba Ado site is meant for burying the heads of every 3rd Benin Oba, and the anthropologist on Benin Kingdom, Bradbury records an 1888 instance --- the last --- of this practice (of sending exhumed Oba's heads to Ife). See Bradbury. See also Willet, (1982), p.22.

So, on this you're back again at square one because Oba Ewuare2 is reported (in crystal clear English by Channels TV who was present live during his visit to Ife) to have paid homage at the Orun Oba Ado site.

So, you have to go back and come up with another made-up reason why you feel Oba Ewuare2 paid homage at Orun Oba Ado.

(2) The claim by some Binis that the Oba dynasty is not an indigenous Edo dynasty (but a foreign one from Ife) has nothing to do peculiarly with Aristo. The same view is held by all the Ogiamien lineage who themselves are indigenous Edos.

So, the Oba coming out to mention the actual historical/spiritual reason behind new Benin kings' visits to Ife will obviously be tantamount to a blatant testimony against his own reign in Benin, and against his own ancestral dynasty in the land of the Edos.

(3) I'm not sure where you got the idea from that Oduduwa as father of Yoruba people is a political fabrication/deception by so-called Islamic people.

Are you ashamed to cite your source for this statement??

I'm super sure that you already know how badly you will be dragged if you dared mention that your "historical" source for the foregoing statement is: Gregyboy, Ife-Benin Comment Section, Nairaland, 2020.

Notice the gap between me and you. While I cite scholars like Bradbury, Willett, et al., you on the other hand cite gregyboy. Isn't this the funniest thing ever?

(4) I am not sure which Ooni ever visited Benin Kingdom, and which black cow was slaughtered in the process.

Are you just ignorant, or you've resorted lately to blant lies (as it is typical tho) just because I hit where it hurts.

There is no record of any Ooni visiting Benin Kingdom. Cut it out! It's always the other way round. And the reason is an open secret.

(5) The Bini spinning that a certain Ekaladerhan from Igodomigodo came to be King in Ife under the name Izoduwa, or Idoduwa, or Imadoduwa has been trashed and debunked by world renowned historians of Benin history as an apocryphal, pseudo-historical, deliberately unauthentic, over ambitious joke. See: Bondarenko, (2003), pp.67-68.

So, I'm not sure why you're alluding to this obviously made up joke. Or are you a comedian??

(6) Your point number (6) is clearly an extension of your comedy from your point number (5)

(7) What are you still waiting for?

Your fellow Binis would be extremely glad if you "DiG oUt ThE iNtErViEw" for me.

Please dig out the non-existent interview and put me to shame. I can't wait to be exposed.

(8 ) Except that Benin Obas' visits to these other kingdoms do not involve any homage paying at any shrine, site, or grove.

Unlike in Ife where he (Oba Ewuare2) did pay homage (at least) at the Orun Oba Ado site (as reported in clear English by Channels TV) and at the Oranmiyan grove (as misfired by the grove's gatekeeper)

Cheers!

You still haven't come up with an answer for why over 500years of European relationship with Edos, Yorubas and other tribes of Nigeria (with a lot of written documents from that perios) there was no mention of Oduduwa or Ife founding of Benin kingdom, then suddenly in 1930 a whiteman suddenly came up with the strange story?

TAO11:
There is so much ignorance in your reply that I'm not even sure where to begin educating you from.

(1) Oranmiyan's "burial" has absolutely nothing to do with the Orun Oba Ado site.

From your bungle here, it becomes very obvious that this subject is clearly not your forte. Yet for some strange reasons you won't just lurk in the background and watch quietly.

Now listen, while the Orun Oba Ado site is one place, Oranmiyan grove is another separate distinct and entirely different place.

The Orun Oba Ado site is meant for burying the heads of every 3rd Benin Oba, and the anthropologist on Benin Kingdom, Bradbury records an 1888 instance --- the last --- of this practice (of sending exhumed Oba's heads to Ife). See Bradbury. See also Willet, (1982), p.22.

So, on this you're back again at square one because Oba Ewuare2 is reported (in crystal clear English by Channels TV who was present live during his visit to Ife) to have paid homage at the Orun Oba Ado site.

So, you have to go back and come up with another made-up reason why you feel Oba Ewuare2 paid homage at Orun Oba Ado.

(2) The claim by some Binis that the Oba dynasty is not an indigenous Edo dynasty (but a foreign one from Ife) has nothing to do peculiarly with Aristo. The same view is held by all the Ogiamien lineage who themselves are indigenous Edos.

So, the Oba coming out to mention the actual historical/spiritual reason behind new Benin kings' visits to Ife will obviously be tantamount to a blatant testimony against his own reign in Benin, and against his own ancestral dynasty in the land of the Edos.

(3) I'm not sure where you got the idea from that Oduduwa as father of Yoruba people is a political fabrication/deception by so-called Islamic people.

Are you ashamed to cite your source for this statement??

I'm super sure that you already know how badly you will be dragged if you dared mention that your "historical" source for the foregoing statement is: Gregyboy, Ife-Benin Comment Section, Nairaland, 2020.

Notice the gap between me and you. While I cite scholars like Bradbury, Willett, et al., you on the other hand cite gregyboy. Isn't this the funniest thing ever?

(4) I am not sure which Ooni ever visited Benin Kingdom, and which black cow was slaughtered in the process.

Are you just ignorant, or you've resorted lately to blant lies (as it is typical tho) just because I hit where it hurts.

There is no record of any Ooni visiting Benin Kingdom. Cut it out! It's always the other way round. And the reason is an open secret.

(5) The Bini spinning that a certain Ekaladerhan from Igodomigodo came to be King in Ife under the name Izoduwa, or Idoduwa, or Imadoduwa has been trashed and debunked by world renowned historians of Benin history as an apocryphal, pseudo-historical, deliberately unauthentic, over ambitious joke. See: Bondarenko, (2003), pp.67-68.

So, I'm not sure why you're alluding to this obviously made up joke. Or are you a comedian??

(6) Your point number (6) is clearly an extension of your comedy from your point number (5)

(7) What are you still waiting for?

Your fellow Binis would be extremely glad if you "DiG oUt ThE iNtErViEw" for me.

Please dig out the non-existent interview and put me to shame. I can't wait to be exposed.

(8 ) Except that the Benin Oba's visit to these other kingdoms does not involve any homage paying at any shrine, site, or grove.

Unlike in Ife where he (Oba Ewuare2) did pay homage (at least) at the Orun Oba Ado site (as reported in clear English by Channels TV) and at the Oranmiyan grove (as misfired by the grove's gatekeep)

Cheers!

If no Ooni has ever visited Benin Kingdom don't u think there must be some underlying reasons or traditional requirements for such a visit? Afterall Benin Kingdom is one of the greatest kingdoms to exisit in Nigeria and your Ooni is well known as an owambe Ooni always going to parties, and has visited almost every kingdoms (small and big) in Nigeria..
Benin KIngdom must be special not just go visit anyhow..

IDENNAA:
Now, you want to take what Olauda said but disregard the account that puts your Oba beneath a king from the east...you guys are too danm funny

The account that puts the Oba beneath a king from the east was narrated by who?
Olaudah is an Igbo man who wrote what he witnessed.

samuk:
Thanks, at times you just have to break it down in the language they can understand and can hardly argue with without ridiculing and making themselves look stupid.

They run into the thread with insults and when you break it down to them, the sensible ones leave without a fight.

The guy argued that what Zik wrote was a fabrication from his uneducated grandmother.

What about Olaudah that was a eyewitness to the events he wrote about in the 1700s.

What did Zik stands to gain to fabricate his history in retirement after achieving everything achievable in life.

Some of them are just too ignorant.

I don’t believe the problem is Yoruba, Igbo or Edos.. The problem began with the foreign historians who wrote rubbish history and handed it to us to fight over..
The first time the story of Oduduwa/Oranmiyan/Eweka was heard and documented was in the 1930s by Talbot. Few years after, Binis pushed back and gave their own account to established an unbroken link between the ogiso and oba dynasties.

gregyboy:
Quote the book.....

It will be nice to read

Here’s a screenshot from his book. You can read about him and his work on jstor.

gregyboy:
Quote the book.....

It will be nice to read

I'm looking for it. hold on

gregyboy:
I think he saw my map and read my post

Have you read the autobiography of Olaudah Equiano? He is the first Igbo man to read and write in the 17th century. He was a former slave who after gaining his freedom got an education and was one of the first people to start the abolition of slavery.
In his book he wrote that he was born in Essaka which is around Anambra and that his place was part of Benin Kingdom and they were ruled by the Oba of Benin.

Osagyefo98:
Not interfering in the historical paths just I decided to give you the name of the man that made Mid-west possible. Same man you guys hate so much.

I think by now he will be regretting his actions in his grave and should allowed you all to be in Western region and become fully yorubanised...at least by now you all will be full blown Yorubas.

You are looking for unnecessary argument..

gregyboy:
Tao11 you want to bring ife to light through false history never not when benin is always attached to such account ......

We thankgod benins are not just educational exposed but also internationally exposed, if it was other minor tribe you all would have succeeded without sweat
we will never leave without a fight not even from the most deadliest rival if our forefathers wouldn't run from guns blazing, then we the
New generations we won't run from mere
Words....

Never!!! the more you try the more we expose the lies and the more people hate yorubas for that single reasons

TAO11 you amaze me the most, due to the fact you're a female and your act of desperation to rewrite yoruba undocumented history

Forgodsake scholars are yet to find the location of yufi it is still a debate around different areas, nupe, ife, Zimbabwe but you TAO11 hijacked it and concluded his ife how desperate you can be

Just bcus someone told you ife was never recorded in history you brought a counter claim
That is yet to be fully proven if a nupe was on this thread it will be an hot debate....


AGAIN benin-ife never had a connection

Am still waiting for someone to disprove me

About the Benin-Ife connection, Ryder wasn’t the only scholar that have argued against it. Other scholars have published research work against that connection ever existing.
Most suggests that if there was a connection it probably happened long after the Benin Kingdom and the present dynasty had been established.

samuk:
The problems with these Yoruba people is that they don't read through their sources and thoroughly understand and comprehend what their sources are saying before they present them as evidences to support their arguments, living rooms for exposure of their lies and serious bashing by the Benin.

1. The four hundred years arguments of Benin not having any relationship with Ife came from Ryder's documents presented by TAO11 herself.

2. The evidences of Ogane being east of Benin, in a distance of 900 miles with travelling time of 20 moons or 20 months or 1 year 8 months was from a document presented by Metaphysical.

3. Again TAO11 has referenced another document that have shown her Ufi to be in southern Africa.

Not only are their arguments lame and indefensible but they continue to add to the ammunitions of the Benin that are already well armed by presenting these references that work against their arguments.

I don't know if I should just laugh or feel sorry for their stupidity.

You must be clever enough to know when you lost the argument and throw in the towel, every account you are submitting are being used against you and you are continuing and not see and problems with that.

Those that were formerly applauding you have all run away in shame.

TAO11 is carrying on as if there is a medal to be won.

She has tried her best, no one will say she didn't put up a good fight, even her Male Yoruba counterparts have all since run away.

Hope she and other of her likes would have learnt a vital lesson that real history is different from myths.

If you try to steal other people's history, you should be ready to face the consequences.

Right now she is desperately looking for another nonsense myths and assumptions she want to use to support her foolish argument lol

TAO11:
Provide only one --- just one --- shred of evidence (academic, expert submission, scholarly statement, or archaeological result, etc.) to back up any single one of the many clams in your comment above, I challenge you.

Wake up me up only when you're able to help yourself, otherwise your comments (I mean your lies) amount to nothing but your usual audio rants.

I battered your image here on Nairaland so much that everyone is now beyond convinced that you are a Janus-faced fatuous deluded liar.

You are only struggling to salvage whatever pieces is left of your shattered image.

Well, people's mind have been made up on you --- including pusyiter who, on the basis of how badly I exposed you yesterday, forsook you and fled.

Nothing you say makes any sense even if it was a dot

TAO11:
Yes that's in the first page. And it is clearly stated to be an assumption by commentators. Only a fool finishes primary one and claims to have all there is to Western education.

But after combing through all the evidence, he submits in his final summary that:

There are indeed two faces of Yufi. One in Southern Africa, and the other in West Africa.

He noted that the West Africa Yufi is the much talked about. And he identified it as Ife.

A very sad, depressing, painful, and life-threatening fact for Edo liars like gregyboy, davidnazee, and ghostwon.

Sane people, please see attachment below.

You are still a learner.. I don't know what your understanding of a sane person is.
The document you posted is just an assumption (with no credible evidence) of a Yufi in Nupe/Ife, it doesn't say Ibn Battuta had any discussion with anybody about Yufi in Nupe/Ife or trade with them.
Ibn Battuta in his own testimonies describes interactions with sailors and traders about Yufi and trade in gold he had with Yufi located in Southeastern Africa as you can see in the documents below.

Your document's argument about Yufi being Ife is based on myths about Ife's artwork, which doesn't add up when comparing it to Ibn Battuta's own testimonies about Yufi to determine which Yufi he was talking about. wether there is 2 Yufi is not my argurment but which one Ibn Battuta was referring to and that is the Yufi in Southeastern Africa.
So stop using Ibn Battuta to support your argument about Ife being Yufi because Ibn Battuta didn't even know if Ife existed. The only place Ibn Battuta mentioned in Nigeria area was central nigeria and Ife is not located around there.

TAO11:
Hahahaha!

He has seen his public disgrace in p.160. of the same paper where rhe same author rubbishes his emotions.

No where did the paper say one Yufi is real and one is mythical. It's only voices in your Benin head that told you that.

Let me join the author to rubbish you.

(1) The Western Yufi is the much talked about Yufi.
---- See line 6 and 7 of the summary page where it says:

"There has been more discussion of Yufi's western face which was in contact with Mali and located by ibn Battuta towards the lower Niger."

This western face is obviously no South Africa --- otherwise you will have to upgrade a screenshot of your Geography WAEC result.

(2) "...But a more faithful reading would be Ufe (alternatively pronounced Ife). This is acceptable geographically and fits nicely the political and economic realities of that time."


This is a big slap on your face davidnazee. From "your" own reference?? What a pity!??

Thank God, unlike you, most neutral observer here can read and complete sentences.

Try again, you may be lucky!


I really underatand why "Yufi" drives you Binis crazy.

If I was a Bini, I may go bunkers like you all as well.

Do you even think or reason properly before u write?
Scholars agree that Yufi didn’t exist in both south-eastern and Western Africa but only in one.. now scholars agree on the location and timeline of Yufi in southeastern Africa but in Ife’s case as Yufi it is all assumptions based on myths.
Can’t u reason beyond your nose and understand simple logic? Ife is not Yufi Ibn Battuta talked about.

Thank God I’m Edo.

ghostwon:
Good job bro.
The yar.iba dwells in myths because he has no actual history.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/24328593?seq=1

Thanks bro.. These Yorubas are irritating..

TAO11:
Half education they say is worst than none!

You're an Olodo, one who attains education to J.S.S. 3 and then proclaim himself as equal to university graduates.

I have read the whole paper (not just its firat few pages) and I have cited it repeatedly.

Go to page 160 of the same paper where he summarised the findings, and then return here to apologize.

Learn to read what you will be replying to. But I can understand your frustration tho.

Like I said earlier, You are a liar and only accept what you think supports your arguement.
Yufi is not Ife.. Its only you yorubas that claim it to be Ife. Scholars have already agreed that it is not Ife.
Because you are foolish you failed to realize that the paper you are refering to says that there are supposedly two Yufi (one that is real and located in ancient Zimbabwe empire and one that is mythical and assumed to be Ife.) Nobody accepts myths as reality because its always false.

samuk:
The meaning you gave was for the name Odu-to-du-wa not Oduduwa. Go back to your post.

Without the to, your Oduduwa will literally mean powercontestglory. Does this make sense to anyone

Like every answer you Yoruba give to simple questions, you go all over the place to gather pieces of information to formulate your answers.

You just can't give a simple answer to a simple question.

Lol @"powercontestglory"

TAO11:
I insult you because you are willfully dvmb. You are simply too dvmb to be alive, as you deny what is blatantly obvious before your eyes.

You simply can't believe your eyes and your mind that your newly found slavemaster land (Nupe) was debunked, while your ancestral slavemaster land (Ife) was upheld.

The text clearly reads, Yufi "is normally taken to mean Nufe (Nupe) on the supposition of a mislection of Arabic n as y. But a more faithful reading would be Ufe (alternatively pronounced Ife). This is acceptable geographically and fits nicely the political and economic realities of that time."

Now to spoonfeed your kindergerten brain as you obviously can't read for yourself:

(1) "Supposition" :-- For the sake of your rusty brain, the simple equivalnece of this word is "assumption".

In other words, the widespread rendering of "Yufi" as "Nufe (Nupe)" is an assumption.

(2) "But" :-- For the purpose of your clogged brain, this word is a conjuction which shows a contrast between the Nupe (Nupe) assumption, and the Ufe (Ife) reading.

(3) The Ife reading is said clearly by the text, in black and white, to be "a more faithful reading" in contrast to "Nupe" which is based on a mere assumption. Note that the word "faithful" here signify "accurate" unlike "assumption".

(4) In addition to being "accurate", the Ife rendering of "Yufi" is said to match the "geography" as described by Ibn Battûta.

(5) In addition to being "accurate" and matching in "geography", the "Ife" rendering of "Yufi" is also said to match "the political and economic realities of that time" as described by Ibn Battûta.


This is how to catch self-imposed fools like gregyboy --- that is, by breaking it down to their clogged brain kindergaten level such that there is no where else for them to take cover.

You TAO11 are the worst of Yoruba liars.
Regarding Yufi, Ibn Battuta never said or even thought Ife was Yufi. It is Yorubas that likes to claim everything that called Yufi to be Ife. Ibn Battuta was refering to Zimbabwe and its gold when he talked about Yufi.
Please stop twisting the facts..

geosegun:
I was just reading your comments and laugh cant stop laughing... both you and an samuk are deceiving yourselves. You can not re-write history no matter how hard you try. Yoruba (Ife) gave you (Benin) your Kingship and and civilization. You cant help it, you cant change it and you cannot re-write history. All you need to do is accept the fact and move on. Even the Romans gave the great British their civilization, the current British royals have Germans bloodline, so what is wrong in the Oba of Benin having a Yoruba Bloodline? Why are you guys allowing inferiority complex to becloud our sense of judgement?

@TAO11; I'll advise you ignore henceforth. Since they are not ready to accept reality. You have given more than enough evidence. It up to them to face reality, accept it an move on or they continue to live in self deceit.

Going by your statement that rome gave British their civilization and the British monarchy having German bloodline, does that mean Rome or Germany are greater than British empire? Or do u see Italians or Germans shouting or bragging that their ancient kingdoms were greater than the British Kingdom?
I wonder who is really suffering from inferiority complex and shame of an inferior history.

TAO11:
Thanks for admitting that your attachment answers nothing of my questions

Furthermore, the Europeans' comparison (in whatever light), of their newly arrived tour destination, with their homeland from which they've just departed is about the most natural thing to do.

I am not only schocked that you think such comparison is what makes Benin great, I am also shocked that you that you assume such comparison is unique to Benin.

No, that's a trio of inferiority complex, delusions of grandeur, and pure ignorance there, davidnazee. You should do better than that.

Having said that, I assume you love to know if the "white man" has any "great" thing to say about Yorubaland in those early centuries.

I will provide you with some astonishing "white man's" (lol) eye-witness testimonies of great telltale about Yoruba land.

Telltales which will not only highlight Yorubas magnificence; which will not only compare scenes in Yorubaland with parts of Europe; but which will infact indicates to you how transcendent certain aspects of Yoruba socio-political organization is over and above what is obtainable anywhere in Africa, and anywhere in Europe at the time.

Remind me much later today to provide the quotes and references. I have to leave now, I'm way way past bed time.

Cheers!

Please I’m waiting for any documents written in the 1600s about anywhere in Yorubaland that describes any Yoruba city in the same way Benin city was described.
I’m waiting for the fairytales you want to come up with this time.

Don’t forget that when foreigners visited Yoruba villages, Oyo was met in ruins, Ife had been abandoned and other Yoruba places were described as settlements.

So please come and lie again.