₦airaland Forum

MetaPhysical:
Everywhere we look, Benin, Edo took origin at Ife. Whether told by African or European, whether in folklore, myth, oral or written history there is consensus that Ife is the origin.

Slaves will always try to rebel and usurp noble positions out of their reach.

Thanks TAO!

The only renowned slaves are the Yorubas, so what are you talking about?

MetaPhysical:
In fact, Thornton published a book to put forward a claim that Oba of Benin was subject of a King of Nupe/Igala.

Whichever direction you take Benin is accounted as a lesser King to a much greater King ....a foreigner that lives elsewhere.

You can counter Yoruba claim but you cannot escape from the fact that Oba derived authority from another ethnic. This is your burden for eternity!

cc
TAO11

Why do u keep promoting and celebrating baseless claims and unproven hearsay.. the only proven fact and documented hundreds of years ago is that Benin conquered and ruled over vast territories of Yorubaland. Yoruba kings were subjects to the Benin king and were often beheaded for disobedience.
The burden of that fact is urs to carry and live with.

Which ever direction u look, the impact of benin is still felt today as a super power and that is why u are having this discussion.
I think Benin probably beheaded your king.

MetaPhysical:
Even the Portuguese and Dutch that you so much depend on for credits have written and said your king is a dependent to another greater power. Have you not read this before?

Your King gets authority elsewhere. I can show you in texts, and if you dont believe texts I can show you in pictures.

Even the same Portuguese and British that u are now depending on have written text questioning that myth about Benin / Ife connection because they claim Benin is much older than Ife.
Or have you not read texts that describes how Benin ruled over much of Yoruba lands? Yoruba kings paid homage and dues to Benin Kingdom..

I can show you in texts and if you don’t believe I can show you in pictures.

Difference between your supposed evidence and mine will be that any evidence you try to bring will be only one sentence and hearsay and the writer agrees it’s a myth. Mine on the other hand will be full written documentation and witnessed by people who wrote it.

TAO11:
Sure!

It's an Edo myth which talks about the Edos and some others.

Not an Igbo myth talking about the Igbos and some others.

It is fairly binding only on the Edo person.

So if it’s a myth then it’s not true. Just like all your stories about Ife are all myths and false. Ife stories are like the stories of lost city of Atlantis, like Zeus and Odin, all myths.

I know you Yorubas are trying hard to change history to favour your race but history the way it is known and witnessed has already been told and documented. There’s nothing about Ife in real history.

TAO11:
Actually they have a number of conflicting creation myths.

One of them --- with the title "Iso Norho" --- specifically mentions Ife as the center of the world from where Edo, Ijaw, and Igbo left to their present location.

It talks about pouring sand over the primordial water-filled earth, about chain from heaven, etc. very similar to the Yoruba creation myth.

I will cite refernce to it soon.

Another lie from you Yorubas trying desperately to change history.

If Benin wasn’t greater than Ife this discussion wouldn’t be going on.
All the stories about Ife are myths no evidence to support them..

MetaPhysical:
....gregyboy, areafada,

Continue to tell the world about Edo and Bini greatness begining with your contact with Portuguese.

On our side we will continue to remind the world that the throne and civilization you praise belong to Yoruba and we will support it with facts that pre-date Portuguese....back to when your Oruh ancestors roamed thw wilderness in their n.ayk.edness.

All your stories are myths.. There’s no historical evidence that support your myths.

TAO11:
(1) Lol! Your damage control attempt in respect of Ifa is unfortunately ineffectual.

Your replies lately is reminiscent of the proverbial drowning man clutching at straws.

Anyways, to waste your damage control effort and magnify your bungle:

Your use of exclusivity (i.e. "only" ) in the context of your fantasy that nothing novel came out of Ife makes it palpably perceptible that you ignorantly asserted Ife as the origin of Ifa --- the "only thing Ife have [sic]" in your imagination.

(2) Regarding which fantasy, I promise I now understand your confusion here since you have many fantasies.

But your specific fantasy I refer to here is your fantasy that the ancient great Ife and Ijebu kingdoms were mere villages.

You are yet to provide even a shred of evidence for this fantasy.

[Here I'm assuming you've now understood what the English word "fantasy" means].

(3) If what you alluded to as non-proper sentence is my oversight of "which", and misspelling of "substantiate" which hasld long being fixed even before your comment, then no thanks to you even as my unofficial secretary. I never appointed you.

Moreover, didn't you more than once applaud me using the phrase "good at" "putting words together", and the phrase "writes well"?

Yet in the same breath bigotry made you contradict yourself on what is obviously explainable as oversight or typo.

Anyways if you had a better argument on history which is the subject here, you wouldn't have clung strongly to inconsequent trivialities.

You are obviously gradually seeing the light, and I know change takes time.

You don’t make any sense.. your character is like that of a child just learning how to walk. this your foolish theatrics still doesn’t explain why you say Ijebu was a great Kingdom and Ife an empire..
those places were historically little villages with Ife bigger than Ijebu..

If u like continue to go crazy and write your long nonsense.. it’s just your way of escaping the truth that you have nothing interesting to say about those little villages.

TAO11:
Gosh! Firstly, it was reading problem, after that, it was communication problem, and now it's comprehension problem. Your problems seem endless.

How could my use of the word "fantasy" (in the context of our exchange here) ever depict the imagery of "to love", "to cherish", or "to admire" which you've painted above?

Anyways, the English word "fantasy" basically means:

"The power or process of creating especially
 unrealistic or improbable mental images in 
response to psychological need."
--- Merriam Webster Dictionary.

Moreover, I obviously love, cherish, and admire all the ancient Yoruba civilizations, if you really care to know.

Furthermore, provide your evidence for your claims on Ife and Ijebu, or continue weeping sorrowfuly.

Lastly, even Ifa did not originate in such absolute sense from Ife.

Will you not get one thing right?

How does saying Ife have Ifa means Ifa originated from Ife?

And which fantasy are you talking about? Read your statement below again:

“Still waiting on one shred of evidence with you will sunstantiate you fantasy on Ijebu and Ife”.

You can’t even be calm and compose a proper sentence.. is it because I said Ijebu and Ife are not great Kingdom/empire that is making u lose your senses ?
You are indeed dumb.

TAO11:
... regarded as great by the earliest known written historical account of the West Africa region in as early as the 1300.

An early account which discusses the greatest kingdoms of the region, to the exclusion of hamlets of the time like newly established Benin.

Still waiting on one shred of evidence with you will sunstantiate you fantasy on Ijebu and Ife.

What is there to fantasize about Ife or Ijebu? Even you is there anything u can fantasize about those villages? Is there any historical accounts about them that will thrill you?

Ijebu is a hamlet and Ife was a village.. only thing Ife have is Ifa..

TAO11:
Regarding your inablity to see my citation on how the king of Ife was regarded --- in the earliest known writen account on West Africa kingdoms ---- as "one of the greatest" in the region (with zero mention of Benin) whose kingdom even the whites cannot invade:

What makes you think I am responsible for your already admitted inability to read written text??

Also, every theocratic monarchy have spiritual connection. So, what's your problem with the Ooni of Ife being regarded as God Almighty by the kings of Benin kingdom.

Lastly, I am still waiting on the historical evidence to sunstantiate your fantasy that the Ife and Ijebu kingdoms ar "small villages".

No body cares about your personal "opinion" which is the most truth you've put forward in relation to helping your joke about Ife and Ijebu.

Or are you about to make a U-turn??

Do you know why u sound foolish even though u can write well?
It’s because the only proof you have of Ife being great is because it was regarded as great lol. So that’s how you will answer an exam question?
One sentence citation is all you can provide.
Even mythical Oyo empire’s greatness was not described in one sentence or citation.

Tao you cannot change history, the best u can do is to deceive yourself.
The unending truth is historically Ijebu was a hamlet, Ife a village..

TAO11:
Can you just see my point on how he's outgrown your grip of ignorance in your first line?

Anyways, provide your evidence??

Or sob secretely!

Stop deceiving yourself Tao. He is right. In precolonial times Ooni was nothing.. everyone knows it was the British that gave Ooni relevance and Awolowo elevated Ooni above the Alafin of Oyo. You Yorubas were refurbished by the British.

Do you know that when the late Oba Erediawa (May he continue to reign forever) was alive he had a spat with the Ooni of Ife. The late oba lectured the Ooni and told him the Benin gave birth to Ife and Oyo. When the Alafin was asked about the Oba of Benin statement, the Alafin replied, “If Oba of Benin said so then the Oba is correct.”
Do u understand why the Alafin gave that reply? I guess u are too ignorant to understand.

TAO11:
The foregoing is not to say I have stopped schooling you, though.

So don't heave a sigh of 'relief' just yet.



And always remember, making a claim is one thing, proving the claim is another separate thing.

You often ignorantly assume that doing the first automatically translates to doing the second. No!

Moreover, your the picture you just attached is an anime/cartoon --- the imagination of a mortal like you --- it is not a photograph.

Also, I dont get the point of your attached map showing the name Benin as well as the name of other places.

What's your new point her since your original point about Bight of Benin and map has already been trashed in the link below:


cc: ghostwon

Why don’t you discuss in details what makes Ife great??
I know you cannot because there’s nothing to say.

ghostwon:
Bro, there is a reason I refuse to discuss with that tao troll, he never makes sense. He makes illogical statements one after the other. He never proves his statements, he relies on tricks and drowning (with huge amounts of lies) anybody who disagrees with him. Then you spend all your time debunking his statements and providing proof contradicting him, only for him to come up with more unsubstantiated claims and many obviously illogical ones.
It is an unending cycle.
And the guy knows nothing about the topics which he discusses. He relies on Google to feed him with internet trash.

Bro it took me sometime to understand that Tao is an idiot. He is only good at writing long essays and putting words together but in the end it’s all rubbish and out of point. It’s a shame because it’s a waste of talent.
He keeps making claims he cannot prove, relying on hearsay and actually he cannot prove his claim because there’s nowhere Ife or Ijebu was discussed extensively as great Kingdoms.

These Yoruba revisionists will forever be frustrated.

TAO11:
Provide evidence to back up your claims.

Moreover, davidnazee is getting enlightened and smarter as we go in this journey.

He has modified and set aside some of his prior emotionally held erroneous views --- courtesy of the quality schooling he got from yours truly. --- I can show you proof.

He has grown in wisdom to escape the sad reality of your ridiculous manipulation of himself, after having seen the light from the academic substantiation I consistently adduce to support my positions.

He has perhaps left you to continue basking in the euphoria of raw and undiluted ignorance cum delusions of grandeur.

Your case sank in me the reality that I can't save a man from himself.

I wish you the best in your ongoing fight with reality.

May God have mercy on your soul!

Yes I have been enlightened to know that you cannot be saved from your ignorance.
Writing long essays that are out of point won’t help you pass an exam.
You haven’t been able to prove what makes Ife an empire rather u been blabbing rubbish.

I’m still of the opinion that Ife and Ijebu are small villages with Ife having a spiritual connection. That is what history has taught us.

TAO11:
Provide your evidence, or sob secretly as always.

My own Reference:
"Conference of Yoruba Chiefs, Oyo, 31 March to 1 April 1937", mimeographed.

Waiting on yours!

Also see attachment.

Are you saying this document (folder) you posted was actually printed in 1937?

Damn you can lie sha!! So you can be this desperate that you stoop so low to make up false and fake documents??

TAO11:
(1) Write out the claim that I made, and provide the evidence by link or screenshot that I did indeed make any such claim.

(2) Provide your evidence showing why the pre-first millenium construction of a formidable system of rampart by the ancient people of Ijebu kingdom (which has attracted the attention of eminent archaeologists) is considered by you to be irrelevant.

(3) Provide evidence demonstrating why you consider my references to the earliest sources, experts, scholars, and acadmics to be irrelevant evidence.

(4) And lastly, I'm still waiting on you to provide evidence for your claims highlighted earlier.

Cheers!

I don’t know why u keep asking me to provide evidence. You should be the one providing evidence to support your claim that Ife was a great empire.
Saying Benin pays homage to Ife (although not true) is not evidence.
Your brother Segwon gave all of Oyo’s glory and achievements to Ife, said Ife was the head and headquarter of Oyo empire. If that’s true then that means Ife was an empire and Oyo wasn’t.
If Segwon statement isn’t true then you have to provide reasonable evidence that makes Ife an empire or else it remains a small village of spiritual or religious significance.

TAO11:
(1) It has become more than obvious that I am way, way out of your league.

For example, just in your above comment you have committed tons of disgraceful logical fallacies such as the following:

(i) Argumentum ad personam
(ii) Argumentum ad hominem
(iii) Argumentum ex silentio
(iv) Argumentum ad ignorantiam
(v) Argumentum ad nauseam
(vi) Onus probandi fallacy.

(2)
(i) Anyways, it is important that you provide evidence for why the pre-first millenium construction of a formidable system of rampart by the ancient people of the Ijebu kingdom (which has attracted the attention of eminent archaeologists) is considered by you to be irrelevant as a signpost to a great ancient civilization. 

(ii) It is also important that you provide historical evidence to support your equation of the Ijebu kingdom with a certain unknown Jaboe; as well as the evidence for your claim that Ife and Ijebu are small villages despite the evidence showing that your Benin kings pay homage to Ife.

I am patiently waiting on your evidences.

1. You keep deviating from the actual argument to topics that are irrelevant to the main topic we are discussing.
I never pushed the architectural works or monuments of Ijebu aside, I said those walls or ramparts doesn’t make it a great Kingdom or empire. You can’t use that as evidence for calling Ijebu a great Kingdom.
I believe many ancient places all have a type of architectural work or walls or monuments.

2. In ancient times, European kings all paid homage to the pope does that mean the Vatican was an empire or greater than those European Kingdoms?

Sewgon79:
Maybe I should enlighten your dumb brain once more. In those days they use Oyo ilé which have ILẸ̀ IFE as capital. OYO ILẸ̀ then is generilise as whole Oodua empire, ilé Ife empire. So that is what I am talking about. Whenever there is war, the instructions and directive came from Administrative center of Oodua empire (Île Ifè). OYO mesi which is now modern day (Oyo) is military or defence headquarters of Oodua Empire.

So anytime you heard story of War fought by Oyo, it administrative headquarters is ÎLE IFE. Ife ó dáyé.

So do you get the whole scenario

Did you get that from Tao or your dumb brain made that up? So during the time of Oyo empire, the capital and headquarters was in Ife? You mean Ife and Ijebu were inside Oyo empire?
Anyways I always believed Oyo empire was a myth and now u just increased that belief.

You are dumb sha, a real Yoruba revisionist.

Sewgon79:
I think I can relate to your ignorance. Ife is not Kingdom. Ife is empire. That is reason they could crown a king in your small kingdom.

As history told us, in those day. There is Oyo ilé and Oyo Ode. Oyo ilé is Ilé Ifè of today and Ọ̀yọ́ òde is today Ọ̀yọ́.

So Yoruba conquer Ewe people of Benin, Togo, Ghana. There is a museum about this in Quidah Town in Benin Republic, go there you will find the story.

Yoruba conquer and dominate Ga people of Ghana and established their roots there. Till today they still call themselves Ancestorial of Ilé Ifè.

This are few to mentioned.

You see how foolish you are. I always said Ife was a small village not a Kingdom. And Ife is not an empire. It has nothing to make it an empire.

You are saying Yoruba conquered this, conquered that, dominate places. This is another foolish statement from you. Which Yoruba are u talking about? Focus on Ife or is it because there’s nothing to say about Ife you now make a general statement? Yoruba as one race was not in existence till the 1800s.

Fact is Ife was never an empire.

Sewgon79:
Hello

Nobody said Ijebu is greater than Benin Kingdoms. We all know that Ijebu and Benin are equal, they even share border.

What I oppose to is your statement sometimes when you mentioned that Benin conquer Ijebu and I said no. You also mentioned that Benin Kingdom is only Kingdom that fought British, which I also falsely by explaining and giving you proves on how Ijebu fought British Colonial to the extent that the British have to go as far Ghana, Sierra Leone, Northern part of Nigeria to recruit more soldiers to fight just IJEBU LAND (Imagbon War).

The reason why I déposé most of your claim and writes up is that your egocentric written manner, trying to convince the ignorant reader of superiority of Benin over Ìfẹ́, which is not and can never be.

Benin will ever remain a son to Ife which is in history, archives and your 2 generation of monarch said it, the King before this and this also mentioned it when he came to OONI OF IFE Palace. He also shows respect by addressing OONIRISA as IMPERIAL MAJESTY.

Moreso, your in ability to differentiate between EMPIRE AND KINGDOM. His Royal Majesty rules Kingdom which Benin is. But His Imperial Majesty rules an Empire like Yoruba overall which makes Oonirisa one.

Empire extend outside their geographic location like Yoruba in Benin Republic, Cuba, Brazil, Trinidad and Tobago, Togo, Ivory Coast and Ghana. In which they are all citizens of their respective countries but pledge their loyalty to Imperial Majesty, the Overall Spiritual Leader and King of their Ancestorial roots which is OONI OF IFE.

Cc: TAO11

FYI, Ijebu and Benin are not mates.. anyways let’s leave Ijebu out of our discussion now and focus on Ife..
if you a Yoruba man says Ife is the greatest Yoruba Kingdom even greater than Oyo I won’t argue about that but it was never greater than Benin and was never an empire.
There’s no proof that Ife was an empire so stop lying to yourself.. it was just a village that had a spiritual connection.
the only Kingdoms that attained the status of an empire is Great Benin and Oyo Kingdoms.

Please go read the meaning of Kingdom and empire and what makes a Kingdom an empire and stop making foolish statements.

TAO11:
Despite the enormous burden of proof on you for having actively and repeatedly made those claims highlighted in my foregoing comment, I was charitable enough to provide you with some education on the greatness of the Ife, the Ijebu, and the Oyo kingdoms; as well as on the ridiculousness of your equation of Ijebu with a certain unknown JAbOe.

I anticipated and prepared for your childish whining, your fallacy, and your cheap excuses by already engaging in such charity. Refer to the links here for a gentle reminder:

https://www.nairaland.com/5738539/benin-governor-kneels-greet-king/13#87858646

https://www.nairaland.com/5738539/benin-governor-kneels-greet-king/12#87852347

In sum, I know I can hardly help a man who admits to lacking the will and intelligence to read and digest written texts.

Also, it makes you appear m0.ronic when you write replies "addressing" comments you admit you didn't read.

Leave Oyo out of it for now, we are not discussing Oyo.
Which evidence did u provide to show Ijebu was a great Kingdom? I think I missed that part. Please provide the evidence again if there’s really one. If u are going to reference Ijebu walls or archeological work done in Ijebu then u are really dumb.

Here’s a clue on how to discuss greatness of a Kingdom.. you can talk about the following:
It’s wealth, it’s economy, it’s size and reach, it’s wars and conquests and it’s international relationship to other Kingdoms and places.

So if u cannot relate all or some of the above with Ijebu then Ijebu (Jaboe) remains a small Yoruba village and Ife too.

TAO11:
I find it interesting that you used the term "onus" despite having no clue what it relates to, or how it is to be applied. Let's see!

(1) Did you claim that the Ijebu kingdom is one and the same thing as a certain unknown JAbOe? ... Yes!

(2) Did you claim that the Ijebu kingdom was no more than an irrelevant village historically? ... Yes!

(3) Did you claim that the Ife kingdom was no more than an irrelevant village historically? ... Yes!

So, you just committed the onus probandi fallacy (aka shifiting the burden of proof) for actively making claims, and yet somehow insisting that you don't have to prove them. Lol.

You clearly have no clue how this works as I have long suspected.

In sum, provide historical evidence to substantiate your three claims highlighted above, or sob secretly as always.

I share my comments because others admitted to me that they love to read them.

As regards liking your own comment, I'm not sure how you've been managing to do that on Nairaland. Can you explain how?

I can’t stop laughing at your foolishness.. the only positive thing I can agree about u is that you take time to write long essays and have good writing style but those won’t help u pass an exam when the content is all rubbish.

If u really understand the meaning of onus then u will know u have more to prove not me especially as there’s no information anywhere in the world that supports your claim. You to prove these things:
Ijebu was a great Kingdom and Ijebu was greater than Benin.

Citing Ijebu walls or archeological work done in Ijebu as proof is the height of foolishness, stupidity and self deceit.

So please bring real evidence to support your claim not references that don’t hold water.

Aphrygian:
oga I followed this topic from the first page and I can deduce that you are only talking rubbish. In research when you make a statement of fact you have to reference it with someone else's research,the other person churned out references for you to read and be cured of your ignorances and you are still here talking from that angle of ignorance repeating again and again your statements.

Bro you may be following the topic but do u understand what our argument is about?
Your brother (I assume u are Yoruba too) claims Ijebu was a greater Kingdom than Benin Kingdom.. His references doesn’t prove his claims.. If he is wise or intelligent he would have know a proper way to prove it or maybe there’s no way he can prove it because Ijebu (a small hamlet) was never a great Kingdom nor can it ever be compared to Benin. And do I need to prove my claim? NO!!

If u support your brother’s claim that Ijebu was greater than Benin then u are as dumb as he is. I’m guessing u are probably carried away by his long essays and writing style but it’s actually all nonsense.

TAO11:
If that's how to "acknowledge ... only ...", then you have difficulties not only with reading (as you've admitted), but also with writing and communication more generally.

Having said that --- provide historical evidence for your two boldened jokes above (including your joke that Jaboe is Ijebu), or sob secretly as always.

Intelligent people won't simply accept your statements as fact just because you repeat them many times.Lol!

The onus is on you to show that Ijebu (Jaboe) was a great Kingdom. History never told us Ijebu (jaboe) was a Kingdom nor was it great.. it was historically a hamlet of Yoruba people.
Also prove Ife was greater than Mighty Benin. History has shown us that Benin Kingdom was far greater than these two Yoruba villages.
So I’m waiting for another long foolish essay from you.

By the way, why do you keep liking and sharing your own post. Stop deceiving yourself boy.

TAO11:
Providence the historical evidence for your three boldened claims (including what Jaboe means), or sob secretly as always.

I am very excited to be exposing you to everyone who will ever read this thread.

Also, do not get carried away, Oyo is mine, not yours.

Mugu I never said Oyo is mine.. I only acknowledge it as the only significant Yoruba Kingdom worth mentioning..
Ijebu (Jaboe) is a hamlet.. Ife small Kingdom.. That’s a fact!!

TAO11:
(1) They are intelligent readers not writers for obvious reason.

And this reason is that they have the will and intelligence to read texts and tell the difference between who is providinv historical evidence and who is imagining pseudohistory.

(2) Again my intended-thread is not about how many comment or argument back and forth. No! if that's what you live for, then that's you. I'm different.

What I intend, however, is but a thread that our people can make reference to for academic references when engaging ignoramous like you.

(3) Regarding who cares about Ijebu:

Obviously not a nobody like you.

Instead, experts, scholars and world-renowned organizations do.

Scholar and archaeologists like Patrick Darling; like the Portuguese traveller, Periera whom I have cited earlier; the CMS Missionary, David Hinderer; the archaeologis, Professor Peter Lloyd; and UNESCO -- to name but a few -- care so much about the great Ijebu kingdom.

(4) Ife is not only a spiritual place like the Vatican. It is that and much more. It is a theocratic-monarchy.

It is "one of the greatest" kingdoms in all the west africa region from c.12th century to the 15th century which no one (not even the whites) can invade as documented by Ibn Battuta.

No wonder the kings of Benin kingdom paid homage to Ife and imported heavily from Ife.

Paula Ben Amos noted that the Edo would be sighting the use of a horse for the first time when Oranmiyan rode one in.

And lastly, I am still waiting for your evidence of where, who, or what JAbOe refers to.

Certainly no evidence exists as to what it definitively means so far. Provide your evidence if you have one.

Ijebu remains in history a small, insignificant hamlet.. it’s only in your small fish brain it was a great Kingdom to be equated amongst great West African Kingdoms.

Ife was a small Kingdom but cannot be compared to Great Benin or Oyo..

If you like deceive yourself, write long foolish essays it won’t change history.
Benin is great, Ife and Ijebu (Jaboe) was not..

TAO11:
All the long essays is intended to expose the reason why you're absolutely ignorant of history.

And the answer has just been admitted by you to be because of your laziness and inability to read written texts.

Also, don't you realize how m0r0nic it makes you appear when you reply to something you didn't read?

Moreover, everything is not about you particularly.

Rather, it's more about other unsuspecting but intelligent readers who have the will to read and who will sometimes stumble across this thread.

They will easily notice how every claim I make is always buttressed with historical documentation --- e.g. the greatness of Ife, Oyo, Ijebu, et al.

While they will contrast that clearly with your personal kitchen table imagination that Ife, Ijebu kingdoms et al. were small villages, without any evidence.

So, far you have not, you can not, and you will not been able to substantiate this imagination of yours with any historical substantiation.

And the reason is simple and straightforward: such historical substantiation does not exist in the real-world, except in your mind.

Otherwise, provide your evidence like I have been doing.

Bla bla bla..
why don’t you ask the intelligent readers between Benin Kingdom and Ijebu or Ife which was greater..
Or you can start a thread about it and see how shocked and disappointed you will be.

Nobody knows or cares about small Ijebu. It’s irrelevant, was never a Kingdom of any importance or significance..
Ife was only regarded as a spiritual place just like Vatican.. it wasn’t a Kingdom, no army, just another small village like Ijebu (Jaboe)..

TAO11:
Ijebu an "irrelevant" "small village"??

Evidence keeps popping up (from you yourself) that I'm talking to an ignoramous.

Anyways to educate you briefly:

The construction of defensive city walls (which the Yorubas call yàrà or odi was one of the most notable monumental indicator of a great ancient civilization.

Yet, one of the most impressive ancient city walls constructed by any Yoruba subgroup in antiquity was the well-known Sungbo Eredo (of the Ijebu kingdom) whose construction has been set by archaeological datings to before the first millennium AD.

It consists of a combination of trench and earthworks to provide a formidable defence during warfare.

As I have noted before, Pereira documented on this defensive system of walls and trenches of the Ijebu kingdom.

Also, the CMS Missionary, David Hinderer who visited Ijebu-Ode in 1855 also documented on the Sungbo Eredo, describing its trenches as "wonderfully deep".

These are no feat attainable by a "village" or "irrelevant" town, especially prior to the first millennium AD. Get that little boy.


Also, to go back and forth with you on whether Ife was "irrelevant"/a "village" in acient times; or a "West African" super power (from the 12th to the 15th century with influence stretching eastward to the Niger River and westward to what is today southern Togo as well as parts of Ghana, Mali, and Mauritania) is pointless.

I have almost overflogged how the earliest known written documentation of the West Africa region by Ibn Battuta has described the Ife sovereign as one of the greatest in all the region (with no mention at all of Benin, in case youre wondering ).

I have also alluded to how the Ife country of the time was described in the same account as a country where no white-man can invade because they would have been killed before they will arrive.

I have at lenght cited experts testimonies of how the kings of Benin kingdom pay homage to the Ooni of Ife, and how the Ooni of Ife was regarded in Benin kingdom as God Almighty in human flesh.

And regarding the Oyo Empire, yes Oyo is proudly ours. One of the mightiest Yoruba subgroup at some point in history in the West African region.

In fact, unlike your brother's (ghostwon) hyper-imagined anime/cartoon drawing of an Oba of Benin on a horse which hardy matches any reality, consider the eyewitness testimony description of an Alaafin of Oyo by the European visitor, Richard Lander after one of his visits to the Alaafin Majotu in the year 1826. Lander writes:

"The monarch was richly dressed in a scarlet damask robe, ornamented with coral beads, and short trousers of the same color with a light blue stripe, made of country cloth; his legs as far as the knees were stained red with hennah, and on his feet he wore sandals of red leather. A cap of blue damask, thickly studded with handsome coral beads, was on his head; and his neck, arms and legs were decorated with large silver rings."

Reference: R. Lander, Records, vol. 1, pp.101-102.

But despite the greatness of these kingdoms, British agents visiting the Yoruba interior, in the year 1886, were told by the then Alaafin of Oyo that:

"The Ifes ... were the fathers of all"

Refer to: S. Adebanji Akintoye, A History of the Yoruba People, Amalion Publishing, 2010, p.2.

All these long essays (I don’t waste my time reading it) only shows how desperate you are to convince and deceive yourself that Ife/Ijebu were once great Kingdoms..
However history has already judged them to be little hamlets, nothing significant or interesting about them.
History on the other hand has placed Benin over them..
So u can cry as much as u like but u Yoruba revisionists can’t change history.

lx3as:
I don't even get time for these ineffectual Bini revisionists. It's an insult to be comparing one of the most populous, most popular, most successful and greatest culture and religion people of Africa with an offshoot like Bini, a minority of minorities. Ibadan was a greater power than Bini in all ramifications, not to even mention Ìfẹ or Oyo.

Right now I'm watching documentary on Yoruba religions and cultures in the Americas and Carribbean. The white commentator just said, "Yoruba religion is the greatest import from Africa."

I know you don’t know the meaning of revisionist because if you do then you will know that it’s you Yorubas that are actually the revisionists..

Sewgon79:
Please help us tell this Bini people, if given chance will turn the history of Africa upside down. But thank God that everywhere people know the history.

And what is the existing history that people knows and who is trying to turn that history upside down?

TAO11:
Did you just say why will you bother to provide evidence to back up your own claim?

Despite using you for entertainment, I genuinely feel pity for you at this point. Lol.

Listen up lad, you're better off not zipping up your mouth and not make a claim, if you're clueless about how to substantiate it.

He who makes a claim has the burden of proof. Read up on onus probandi.

Ironacally, the evidence for your Ijebu claim was exactly what you attempted with your JAbOe failure. Are you a living contradiction, ni?

Shut up boy. Ijebu came into the discussion when u or your brother mentioned it and I proved him wrong.
If u want to discuss Ijebu then u should be the one providing evidence that Ijebu was a mighty Kingdom, had vassal states, many wars and conquests. Provide such evidence or Ijebu remains a small village, vassal to Benin Kingdom, no history and nothing fascinating about it.

TAO11:
I guess Periera was a blue-man when he uttered and documented "Geeboo" in the 1500s.

Oga, provide extant documentary evidence to substantiate your equation of a certain JAbOe with our noble Ijebu kingdom, just as I have done in the case of Geeboo.

Shun kindergaten excuses, and provide evidence instead, boy!

Evidence about Ijebu? Why will I bother myself about a small village that has no history or was never a Kingdom to be reckoned with. Nothing fascinating about Ijebu
You should talk about Oyo and leave irrelevant places like Ijebu or Ife.

You can praise Ijebu or Ife if that’s your hometown but don’t start comparing or equating them to mighty and renowned empires.