₦airaland Forum

@IbeOkehie -

I said in my last post that I will import some old posts which you have to review and understand if we are to have any discussion on this matter.

I import from this thread - (On Racial Superiority and Inferiority) -

https://www.nairaland.com/7887428/racial-superiority-inferiority

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If you look deep into history you will find that empires have risen and empires have fallen. Once upon a time the greatest power in the world was Egypt, once upon a time it was Persia, once upon another time it was Greece, another time, Rome, another time, the Mongols, another time the Ottomans, another time the Germans, another time the British, now the Americans, and its looking like the near future is Chinese.

And yet in this same world there was a time, when Egypt and Rome were at the height of civilization and technology, places like the Germany and Britain of today were populated by bushmen and rural villagers who were very very backward - quite as backward as any African tribe was at another time. The Romans who conquered Britannia met there a very rustic backward people who had no cities and dwelt in gatherings of huts.

A person who doesn't think deeply would simply say, oh the Romans were superior people, but were they really or the tide of history, environment, location, trade and other factors had simply swept them to were they were?

If you reflect, you will find a certain trend among the most developed countries of the world - they all uniformly fall within the temperate zones of the world along certain latitudes. This tells you that climate and environment have a huge role to play in civilization. There is an old thread were this was discussed at length and I will try to dig it up and leave the link here. There are many advanced studies that have proven conclusively the relationship between climate and civilization. If the set of people who migrated to Europe remained in Africa, their descendants would suffer exactly what we are suffering - and its attendant effects on civilization. There is a science to this.

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See next post.

cc: tctrills

IbeOkehie:
4) I'll start at the last point - the most available data show that East Asians have the highest human IQ, they're the most intelligent race. The USA is easily the most diverse nation on the planet. In this nation, Asians are the highest earning racial group and have the lowest rate of criminal convictions or criminality. See how I'm licking Asian feet? It's sooooo sweet, tastes better than White feet.

1) See (4)

2) Productivity is the final arbiter. Spirituality may be an input into productivity. Again see East Asians and their Confuscian or Buddhist religion.

3) This one is the gem !!!! I have to quote -



The irony, oh delicious irony. This doesn't even need any rebuttal. It's just there. Woooow. You just destroyed your own argument.

Look around the world and see the evidence. Does Japan, Singapore or South Korea have any particular natural resource advantage over Nigeria or Gabon? Can a physically stronger giant overcome a midget with a machine gun?

Come on man It's mind over matter, brain over brawn.

Good Luck to Nigerians.

I am, sorry all of this is a non starter. Perhaps a proper approach to this discussion is nuanced and complex for y/ou?

In the mater of so called IQ tests, or even academic results in particular, it has not even occurred to you for one second that there is a socio-economic and sometimes cultural component at play which is extremely critical. To simplify this: a child brought up in a stable and well to do home, well fed, well catered for and with access to a full compliment of educational materials and advanced equipment (such as computers) is certainly most likely to perform better than a child from a poverty stricken home uncertain of his next meal and with zero educational materials. This alone is sufficient to show the socio-economic component which you have not even averted your mind to, not to speak of the cultural components (e.g: a child from a background which emphasizes discipline, study and competitiveness is more likely to excel at academics than a child from a more laissez-faire background). And yet these two factors I have pointed out (socio-economic and cultural) have nothing to do with actual raw intelligence.

This one little thing I have just pointed out is one of the reasons I say I seriously doubt that yo/u can handle this discussion because if you could, you would at once recognize that the statistics that are put up for performance in both IQ tests and academics do not take cognizance of many factors which when played out on a large demographic level with different social realities of the different races are bound to lead to different outcomes.

As to point number three, did you really fail to understand that one society can be more productive than another for any number of reasons? Do you deny that something as simple as fertile land can deliver such? Do you deny that weather alone can decide that? Do you deny that flora and fauna alone can decide that? None of these can be denied so it makes absolutely no sense to insist that it is always true that the most intelligent societies are always the most prosperous. It is simply not true. Very often in history the most brutal societies have been the most prosperous by dint of sheer force.

PS: And no, you cannot arbitrarily decide that "productivity is the final arbiter" - Throughout history, necessity has been the mother of invention. Many societies were not productive per se because they simply had no need to be, others were forced by circumstance to be, etc. This again does not speak to which people are more intelligent. Its as simple as saying that a man who lives in a desert will have to learn some sort of irrigation while a man who lives in an oasis will have no such need and not do it. Necessity is at play here - not necessarily intelligence. And this is just one example. Many other factors abound.

At all events, if I am going to attempt to change your views, we must start this discussion properly. From the historical perspective and by assessing the key factors which lead to civilization. For that, I will import posts I made in another thread some years ago.

cc: tctrills

Ghostagain:
All the mass shootings especially in schools, how many of them are done by people whom are not white ?

Serial killers nko?

These chaps are not serious.

IbeOkehie:
Sure, the difference is easy to understand. Yet there's a summary verdict that can be made.

The ultimate measure of racial - or tribal, religious, clan - quality is PRODUCTIVITY, that's the final arbiter. To what extent can a race or tribe produce goods, services and environments that make human life better?

The most important mediator of productivity is INTELLIGENCE, which itself is a biologic functionality of the BRAIN. As with every other human characteristic or quality, the PARAMETERS of intelligence are set by the DNA.

The assortment of genes in the Negro and Chinese or even Asian race produce the TRUTH that Negroes are taller than Asians.

Genetic determinism is an unpleasant reality to think about, yet there it is.

The good thing about intelligence though is that it can change over time. This has been proven, INTELLIGENCE does increase or decrease across generations.

Another good thing is that every person or group has an essential role in humanity. We are all complimentary, every person and group has a role to play to bring about any given general outcome. And in a free market, EVERYONE tends to experience positive economic development.

When thinking about the greater development experienced by Negroes in the USA, UK and South Africa, the very obvious truth that everyone knows but can't emotionally acknowledge is this -

Living around and interacting with Anglo-Saxons in environments that those Anglos have created or strongly influenced tends to produce a BETTER HDI OUTCOME for Negroes than other environments that DO NOT have a controlling Anglo-Saxon presence or strong influence.

That's it. The patterns of migration from Nigeria and Black Africa as a whole show that EVERYONE KNOWS this truth and WHY it is so.

The Diversity Visa program for the USA started in 1990. It's aimed at countries that don't have large historic entry into the USA. Nigeria was once part of the program, but it was removed because it quickly filled up its allowed cap. Nigerians have shown they WANT to live in the Anglo-Saxon nation called USA.

Over 1 million immigrant visas have been issued under the program. Now let's do a little expansive prognostication, shall we say.

Let's say Nigeria adopts exactly the laws...or most of the laws....that govern the USA. And gives full citizenship to 200,000 White Americans over 10 years. Let's say it's specified that ONE REGION only is allowed to take in these immigrants.

After 25 years...one generation....do you think that region will be generally MORE OR LESS developed than the 5 other geo-political regions of Nigeria?

Well let's hope that was all coherent.

Thanks.

Good Luck to Nigerians.

You did not complete you argument. You went off-centre. You proceeded from talking about intelligence and then hopping to HDI. Lock up your argument properly. If you mean to say that Caucasians are more intelligent than other races, say so simpliciter.

There is much that is lacking but I will not spend much energy with you to the extent that I can help it.

I will start by warning you that productivity is not the "final arbiter" of any superiority of any race. Do not conflate the superiority of an economy with the superiority of a race. You should not do that because in so doing you assume material prosperity to be the final arbiter of the human condition. It is not. There are, and there have been, societies that prioritize spirituality for example, and this does not make any such society inferior.

Nevertheless even if we were to accept your paradigm of material prosperity. The truth is that this is not always produced by greater intelligence. Many factors can play in: for example a people with a more fertile land can be more prosperous. Also a physically stronger people can be more prosperous by conquest of others - same can a numerically superior people. So its not always a question of intelligence. There are a hundred more factors one can cite but I will stop here.

Just start from being concise about your premise: Caucasians are inherently and intrinsically the most intelligent race - right - that is your premise, ko?

WriterrNg:
🇷🇺 Russia

Population = 144 million
Debt = $280 Billion (30% Debt to GDP ratio)
Natural Resources = $100 Trillion

🇺🇸 United States of America

Population = 350 million
Debt = $38 Trillion (130% Debt to GDP ratio)
Natural Resources = $40 Trillion

But we're supposed to believe one's economy is in shambles while the other is prosperous?? 🤣 😂

How much do you get paid for this work please. I am looking for a similar gig if it can be a side hustle. Assist a bros pls.

IbeOkehie:
Sir, the important thing is the parameters being measured and the accuracy of the conclusions made.

Women rate TALLNESS as their top characteristic of attraction to men. This is proven by good research over the years, but data from dating apps have nailed it down.

Also the National Basketball Association of the USA also places a higher value on height.

Chinese men are shorter than Negro men.

Where TALLNESS is assigned as superior, it's accurate to state that Chinese men are inferior to Negroes in this regard.

Let me make it a little more personal.

My town has 20 villages, my particular village has 8 kindreds.

My particular kindred is the poorest in our village in terms raw wealth. It's a KNOWN and commonly talked about thing that we've been historical laggards. It's visible, you can count the number of palatial homes and cars at Xmas time, back in the olden times our men had the fewest wives, heck some of my great-great uncles were so poor the whole kindred had to put money together to pay bride price for them. The only thing that STARTED breaking the jinx around the 1960's was EDUCATION and then it accelerated with MIGRATION to the US & Western Europe.

My kindred is inferior to the 7 others in terms of wealth acquisition. I have no self hatred in acknowledging this simple FACT of our life.

Let's note that Yao Ming is Chinese and taller than 99% of Negro men. He's in the NBA and likely gets more women too.

https://www.google.com/search?gs_ssp=eJzj4tTP1TcwzKrKyDFg9OKoTMxXyM3MSwcARIQGjw&q=yao+ming&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS1037US1037&oq=Yao+ming&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqEwgBEC4YgwEYkQIYsQMYgAQYigUyFggAEAAYgwEYkQIY4wIYsQMYgAQYigUyEwgBEC4YgwEYkQIYsQMYgAQYigUyDQgCEAAYkQIYgAQYigUyEwgDEAAYgwEYkQIYsQMYgAQYigUyEwgEEAAYgwEYkQIYsQMYgAQYigUyDQgFEAAYkQIYgAQYigUyDAgGEAAYQxiABBiKBTINCAcQABiDARixAxiABDIKCAgQABixAxiABDIHCAkQABiPAtIBCDQwNTZqMGo5qAIGsAIB8QV6DsM9PZVc_w&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Surely you get where this is going. Facts not Feelings. Yes, the truth is bitter, most humans don't like the truth. Very understandable.

Have a good evening.

Good Luck to Nigerians.

Saying that one society is more advanced than another society in terms of X, Y Z is different from a consistent approach which views one race as intrinsically and inherently inferior to another. If you dont know the difference, ask, I will expatiate.

IjeBos:
Lol.. He's still waiting for his 7k DOGE check.

I'm sure he's frantically refreshing his twitter page, waiting to see to get his marching orders on how to best defend this.
Default is to go with his "Still crying" line.

Honestly how do these people derive any sense of joy from repeatedly bleating "I am inferior, I am inferior, I am inferior."

Just how? ? ? ?

CoronaVirusPro:
At this juncture, it is ABSOLUTE DELUSION to even hope that anything comes close to His Excellency, President Asiwaju Bola Ahmed Tinubu (GCFR)

Don't you think you should say "its excellency" rather than "his excellency?"

AllBlack:
I can't even remember saying SORRY to anyone in the past 10 years...

That's a problem.

basilico:
Why would there be a high chance For 43 years she lied on every single mortgage application she made. .
She has been charged with one of her 3 properties in Virginia. She still has 2 others in Virginia and 2 in New York.
43 years of lying to gain better mortgage terms. One application included lying about her father being her husband so that she would qualify for the mortgage.

Since when did lies start to bother you?

raumdeuter:
In simple terms you don't have a coherent comeback just like a typical liberal

I dont go about responding to every incoherent thing I hear. Good day.

IbeOkehie:
OK, the wealthiest national group of Negroes in Africa live in South Africa. In fact the Blacks of South Africa are the 2nd or 3rd wealthiest and highest HDI Negroes in the world.

Before 2001, the Blacks of Zimbabwe were wealthier or had higher HDI than Nigerians, I don't know about today. By the way, Zambia and Zimbabwe used to be one country. The history of the separation and the results are interesting to know.

Today the Negroes of Botswana and Namibia live at higher HDI than Nigeria.

I've always wondered why Nigeria with its crude oil AND natural gas bonanza isn't generally better than those countries. Hmmmm. The thing is a big mystery.

Good Luck to Nigerians.

Its not such a big mystery as you think. You just dont wish to apply your brains beyond the simplistic notion "white man smart, black man daft" - that is where you are stuck. The reality is far more nuanced than that.

Have you ever been to South Africa before?

Nigerians are light years ahead of the generality of black South Africans.

Light years.

And till today, the economy of SA is firmly in Caucasian hands. So is 70 per cent of the land.

IbeOkehie:
Buddaaaaaa !!!! Ah ah, wetin?

Liberals & Progressives should also find time to point out the non-complicity of Swedish Americans and Norwegian Americans. A high percentage of White Americans in the State of Minnesota are of Scandinavian origin and they didn't partake in any Slavery, yet they're routinely roped in when it's time to blackmail the White Man to give us money.

I started my life in America in the South. When I moved to Baltimore, I met MANY White Americans whose parents only got to the USA as immigrants in the 1970's. One particular guy my age is Irish and his parents only got to the USA in 1970, there's also another one whose parents are SERBIAN and got here in the 1970's too. What do they have to do with slavery?

Come on people, let's be fair.

Good Luck to Nigerians.

No one has ever claimed that every single white person is to blame somehow. Even back in the day, there were white abolitionists. The Quakers in particular. Who can dismiss the role of William Wilberforce? Even in South Africa there were white people who gave their lives in the fight against apartheid. All of these people are FAR more noble than those blacks whose only business in the world is to denigrate their own race and worship another.

raumdeuter:
Why would you who was so against slavery want someone to lick your feet? Starmer a white man licking the feet of Trump a white man, but somehow your inferiority complex and victimhood still came into it

I refuse to engage in what will amount to a conversation between a writer and a stone.

LordReed:
Wow. That reminds me I need to read the unabridged version.

It is dripping with delight in almost every line.

CoronaVirusPro:
Mentally conquered lots.

Praying for fake White Caucasian Jews!

It amazes me how you can stand for justice in Palestine and worship the epitome of mass enslavement at home (BAT)

IjeBos:
Exactly, he doesn't even see the connection.
While, people come to sing Trump's praises, to get billions for the US, weapons for their countries or favorable trade deals, Raumdeuter licks Trump's feet daily for what? The invisible affirmation of a white man?

All of them (the black Trump worshipping community), are a profound pity.

Kukutente23:
Oh they will get that easily. APC already has 26 states if I'm current. They need 24
They'll just get the speaker to unilaterally endorse it and tell anyone not happy to "go to cot"

I swear.

LordReed:
It is a signature of repressive governments. George Orwell didn't make a mistake when he wrote Animal Farm or 1984.

Animal Farm, my favorite book of all time. I know it line by line by heart.

Kukutente23:
Are the two clowns talking about the Senate chambers where prayers are sent to mailboxes or another chamber?

All these grammar over a body of looters who won't hesitate to bend the rules if it will be to their favour

What does the supreme rule book of Nigeria say about declaration of SoE and how was it handled at the hollow sorry "hallowed" senate chamber

IF BAT seeks a third term, this particular NASS will endorse it.
His only challenge may come from getting the 2/3rds of the State Houses of Assembly.

Celestialsword:
If this stadium is built to international standard like goodwill akpabio stadium in uyo,then the south south can boast of two standium where international matches can be pkayed

The Rivers Govt should target that.

Its a huge disgrace to Nigeria that we literally have just two stadia. Abuja and Uyo.
Is it not unspeakable that Lagos has none till date.

Whats up with the renovation they were doing at Surulere?

IjeBos:
Who is the bigger fool?
The person who licks someone's feet to get them to do something
or
The person who does something against their interests because someone licked their feet?

For diplomats and politicians, it's the latter.
Something your MAGA mind doesn't seem to comprehend.

The more pitiful aspect is that no one lic/ks his own feet in particular. People like him lic/k white feet for the sole pleasure of being able to say that they are inferior to whites.

basilico:
I out it to you that the negro has been given so much by the white person in terms of opportunities and money stemming from MLK efforts. Blacks in America are more wealthier than on my other continent. Democrats moreso have created so many chances for the black person than the republicans I admit that . Though I must add that the democrats want the family to be destroyed.
An unmarried single woman can get upto $3000+ 9000 per month depending on the number of kids. It's more economically advantageous for a single woman than a married woman if their gross income is less than $120K. Don't challenge me on this. This happens more to black families.

How is it special to say that the wealthiest set of black people in the world live in the wealthiest nation in the world?

That statement by the way can be qualified and debated, but even taking it as a given, how is it saying something special? Oh, I get it - because in your view, they have been thereby specially blessed by the white man and should thus be grateful right? Ride on.

IbeOkehie:
Hopefully @DeepSight doesn't come after you for this:

Why would I? Of course they did. That's not the issue here. If you think thats the issue and that's your special highlight, you havent even started. I would have engaged you further but I am gradually learning not to waste my energy. Something you said showed it would be a waste and thats all. When you say you dont know who made more money off it, then I have to walk away from wasting my energy because clearly you have no desire to attempt a serious discussion.

IbeOkehie:
White Americans earned money or benefited from the Slave Trade.

Black Africans earned money or benefited from the Slave Trade.

Truth doesn't need much discussion, it's self evident. My previous interlocutor affirmed my opinion by implication.



You might find it more comfortable to engage with them...ask them why and how Black Africans earned from slavery.

Thanks.

Good Luck to Nigerians.

Good luck to you too.

What a shame.

What a deep deep, deep, sad pitiful shame.

IbeOkehie:
The question quoted in bold is easily answered - I don't know who got more and if it can be measured it doesn't even matter to any person who engages this topic in good faith.

This statement alone is sufficient for any sane person not to bother discussing with you.

tctrills:
Not interested in reading, not after your racism earlier. You have a very racist agenda, and it doesn't help anyone. You lost me the moment you began calling everyone all kind of names

Be honest. You fled when you were shown up for the absurdity of equating mere genetic ancestry analysis to racism.

You are free not to read. Those words are not mine. They are the words of Martin Luther King.

Basilico, I give you the words of MLK. If you cant see the co-relation with Apartheid SA, well, I cant help you then.

"Now there's another myth that I want to mention, because if we are going to have action programs that will prod the forces in power so that they will make the necessary concessions, we are going to have to understand why the forces in power need to be prodded. Now this leads me to say that we've got to get rid of the myth of over-exaggerating the bootstrap philosophy. By that I simply mean this: Over and over again we hear that the Negro should lift himself by his own bootstraps. Then there are those who say over and over again, "Other ethnic groups did it; why don't you?" Now it doesn't help the Negro for unfeeling and insensitive people to say to him that he's been in this country more than 348 years and was brought here in chains, involuntarily, and yet people who have been here, other ethnic groups who have been here for a hundred or a hundred and fifty years have gotten ahead of him. That doesn't help him at all. That only deepens his problem, his frustration, and almost his self- hatred. For the people who are that insensitive never stop to recognize the fact that no other ethnic group has been a slave on American soil.

They never stop to recognize the fact that the nation made the Negro's color a stigma. It became something evil. You know even linguistics or semantics conspired against us on this. If you open Roget's Thesaurus, you'll find 120 synonyms for black. They are all degrading; smutty, dirty, lowly, every one of them. Now when you look for the 130 synonyms in that thesaurus for white, all of them [are] chaste, pure, everything elevated, and high and noble. So the society through its language structure came to the point of saying that a white lie is better than a black lie. If someone goes wrong in the family, you don't call them a white sheep, it's the black sheep of the family. If you know something about somebody, and you use that as a basis to bribe them and say that if you don't give them this amount of money that you are going to expose them you don't call that whitemail you call it blackmail. Go right down the language structure, and you see that everything conspired to make the Negro think that there was something wrong with him because of his color.

The other thing is that no ethnic group has lifted itself by its own bootstraps. The Negro was freed from the bondage of physical slavery through the Emancipation Proclamation in 1863, but he wasn't given any land to make that freedom meaningful. It was something like keeping a man in jail for many, many years, and then suddenly discovering that he is not guilty of the crime for which he was convicted. Then you go to the man and say, "Now you're free," but you don't give him any bus fare to get to town. You don't give him any money to get clothes to put on his back or to get on his feet in life again. Every system of justice or code of jurisprudence would rise up against this, and yet this is exactly what America did to the black man. It freed him from slavery and then left him there penniless, illiterate. He didn't have a thing, and there was no land provided.

The important thing that America must realize is this: That at the same time that she refused to give the black man anything, she was giving away millions of acres of land in the West and the Midwest through an act of Congress. Not only did she give the land, she built land grant colleges to teach them to farm. She provided county agents to help them and to get them expert, to give them expertise in farming. But not only that, the nation provided low interest rates in later years so that they could mechanize their farms.

Not only that, many of these persons are being paid today not to farm, and these are many of the persons who are telling the Negro that he should lift himself by his own bootstraps. A wonderful thing. I guess that it is all right to tell a man to lift himself by his own bootstraps, but it is a cruel jest to say to a bootless man that he ought to lift himself by his own bootstraps. Through centuries of denial, centuries of neglect, and centuries of injustice many, many Negroes have been left bootless.

This does not mean that we do nothing for ourselves. It does not mean that we should not amass our economic and political resources to reach our legitimate goals. It simply means recognizing, the nation recognizing, that it owes a great debt on the basis of the injustices of the past.".

cc: tctrills.