₦airaland Forum

InesQor:
Viaro(m) was alleged to be pilgrim1(f). Unfounded allegations - and never proven. I communicated with the user outside this platform and still believe that user was wrongly accused.

Fair, mavenbox / inesqor were the same user. But no, "gender" was not an issue - rather, it was about a thin veneer of privacy. That's all I will say about that at this time.

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Dost mine eyes deceive me?
Long time!

Classic stuff.
We dont produce such stuff anymore or do we? I might not know.

basilico:
Why do I have a feeling all these glorious inventions by Muslims are folk tales?
I know that when Egypt fell to the marauding muslims they destroyed every book at University of Cairo. The caliphs burnt every book they could get in Persia if I'm right They have been accused of being retrogressive as far as early knowledge is concerned.

Adding to my bucket list

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Then you are woefully ignorant of the golden age of Islam

basilico:
If you check my edit, Egyptian Copts were light years ahead of the desert Berbers, they had universities.

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Its still hard history.

basilico:
Why do I have a feeling all these glorious inventions Muslims are folk tales?
Adding to my bucket list

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It's hard history. Research.

But the fact that you have that feeling tells about about your mindset.

That probably in your subconscious you associate invention, innovation and intellect with Caucasian only.

Its likely

triplechoice:
If they and the mad man in the white house starts the booming tonight to erase "an entire civilisation", some countries would intervene and things would escalate.

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Oh, I thought you were referring to the threat to bomb the bridges and power stations.

If he uses any genocidal weapon such as a nuclear weapon, things will clearly escalate fast. I doubt that any such thing will happen though. Even the people holding the nuclear briefcase will resist him.

triplechoice:
They dare not. They know what would result from it: third world war.

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I don't think they will do it, but if they did, nothing like world war will result.

The guy is 36 ? ? ? ?

TV01:
What religious or cultural millieau did the printing press emanate from? Your continually fail to make sense or ably support your position. Perhaps you simply lack the wherewithal to support them - not learned enough !

Did the PP come out of Arabia or the moose.slim world? What of sub-saharan Africa? DId they develop their own "mass transmission" modalities?The moose.slim world refused to avail themselves of the PP when opportuned. Makes absolute sense for a religion of control and a natally backward people.

Nothing has changed to this day. With all the oil wealth, all they do is ape the west, buy in expertise from the west, or buy-up the west. They can't even fund any kind of relevant innovation or advancement in the own lands - it's all ee.slamic schools of this and that, ulcerating the universities of the west. And of course full-frontal sponsoring of islamisation. Nothing good ever came out of madrassas, or ile-kewu .

Even now, an Israel with only 7m Jews and a global total of 15m vastly out-innovates and out-creates all the Arab and moose.lim world (forget SSA). On top of which they are the only nation in that region that affords the personal freedoms that are a hallmark of advanced nations.

In a free market place of odeas, I have no problem with ee.slam. Like I have no issue with Hinduism or Confucianism, Bhuddism (or even Catholics ). But ee.slam seeks to forcefully impose itself on everything and offer only 2 products - 7th century Arabia or 21st century Afghanistan.

As for the "many other factors", list them na, and see your argument further trampled in the mud.


TV

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Your double standards stand out. You are ready to attribute the printing press somehow to your religion, but wish to exclude the many developments in the Islamic world of antiquity from Islam.

My position is consistent - its not the religions, its simply the people evolving. When we speak of the golden age of Islam, we are simply referring to a period when Islamic empires and people flourished with great development that impacted the world.

We are not so thoughtless as to attribute the development specifically to something in Islam, the way you are eager to attribute all Western Science to Judeo-Christianity.

It is a fact of history that Islam had a golden age in the way I have described above. Anyone denying it is either unschooled or or simply in denial from religious extremism or bigotry.

I extract -

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The Islamic Golden Age (roughly 8th to 14th century) was a powerhouse of intellectual activity. While Europe was in the Early Middle Ages, scholars in cities like Baghdad, Córdoba, and Cairo were synthesizing Greek, Indian, and Persian knowledge while making massive original breakthroughs. Here are the major subjects and innovations they contributed to the modern world:

1. Mathematics: The Language of Science: Perhaps the most visible legacy is in our numbers. Islamic mathematicians didn't just preserve math; they revolutionized how we calculate. Algebra: Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi wrote The Compendious Book on Calculation by Completion and Balancing. The word "Algebra" comes from his term al-jabr. He treated algebra as a distinct discipline for the first time.

Arabic Numerals & Zero: While the symbols originated in India, Islamic scholars refined the decimal system and the concept of zero (0), then introduced them to the West.

Algorithms: The word "algorithm" is actually a Latinized corruption of al-Khwarizmi’s name.

Trigonometry: Scholars like al-Battani isolated functions like sine, cosine, and tangent, which were essential for both astronomy and navigation.

2. Medicine: Systematic Healing - The Islamic world moved medicine from folklore to a rigorous, empirical science. The Canon of Medicine: Written by Ibn Sina (Avicenna), this remained the standard medical textbook in Europe and the Middle East for over 600 years. Hospitals (Bimaristans): They created the first modern hospitals with separate wards for different diseases, pharmacies, and even "internships" for medical students.

Surgery: Al-Zahrawi (Albucasis) is often called the "father of surgery." He invented over 200 surgical instruments—including the scalpel, bone saw, and forceps—many of which have designs that remain recognizable today.

Circulation: Ibn al-Nafis was the first to correctly describe pulmonary circulation (how blood moves through the heart and lungs).

3. Physics and Optics - Before this era, people believed the eyes emitted rays to "see" objects. Islamic scientists corrected this. Ibn al-Haytham (Alhazen): Often called the first true scientist, he pioneered the scientific method, emphasizing repeatable experiments.

The Camera Obscura: Al-Haytham explained how light travels in straight lines and enters the eye, using the "dark room" (camera obscura) principle to prove it. This is the fundamental ancestor of the modern camera.

4. Chemistry (Alchemy): The word "Chemistry" comes from al-kimiya. Islamic scholars transitioned alchemy from a mystical pursuit of turning lead into gold into a practical science. Jabir ibn Hayyan (Geber): He introduced systematic laboratory methods and identified many common acids (like sulfuric and nitric acid). Distillation: He perfected the process of distillation, which led to the creation of perfumes, medicines, and refined oils.

5. Engineering and Navigation - Practicality was at the heart of many innovations, especially regarding water and travel. Crankshafts and Water Pumps: Al-Jazari, a brilliant engineer, designed intricate clocks, hand-washing automata, and the crankshaft—one of the most important mechanical inventions in human history.

6. Higher Education Universities: The University of al-Qarawiyyin in Fez, Morocco (founded by Fatima al-Fihri in 859 AD), is recognized by UNESCO and Guinness World Records as the oldest continuously operating, degree-granting university in the world.
-- - - - - - -

So, TV01, what exactly is wrong with you? Did you skip classes or you are just allergic to history or what?

CodeTemplar:
Save for the civillians caught in line of fire, USA has been very professional in what gets destroyed in their attempt at stopping the Ayatollahs from destructive tech acquisition.

Military targets. Weapon cache. Supplies.
Compare that to what Iran hits.

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165 school girls was professional right?

Flangelo12:
A few schools (600) and higher institutions (30 universities)
Some hospitals (13) and parks.

Bridges and infrastructure not even in use .

Of course, they've been careful.

Imagine if they had been reckless.

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Honestly!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Gerhards:
They will definitely go ahead, because they have been warned to stay away from those facilities

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Go and say 100 Hail Mary's and 100 Our Father's.

Oya, Satanic Israel, go ahead and bomb them under the normal Gaza excuse that they are using their people as human shields. Go ahead na.

TV01:
The bible says of God "He will e found righteous when He judges and justified when He speaks". No explanation required, or available, for "His judgements are unsearchable and His ways past finding out"..

You explain this if you can. If you buy a chicken - which you can't create and take its eggs - which you can't lay - and decide to make a nice omelette or throw them at people you don't like, who can query you?


TV

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Unscholarly faith induced subservient nonsense.
Its comical how you imagine yourself the bee's knees but consistently come forward so hollow.

Chivisee:
It take some level of exposure and education to know that this present government is breaking new grounds in the history of the country, judging by the resources available to him. I have serious confident that he will deliver before his tenure elapse in 2031

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With your terrible written English we can see just the level of exposure and education needed to support BAT.

seunmsg:
INEC is a party to the case and they simply defended their decision to recognize the David Mark faction. That they filed this position before the court does not mean they are right and it doesn’t mean the court must accept their position.


In this case, the court has given a preservative order for all parties to cease any action until the FHC decides the matter. So, all parties including INEC are supposed to head back to the FHC and make all their arguments. And what did you guys do? You stalled that process and took the case again to the Supreme Court. You even asked for a stay of execution of the preservative order. That’s, keep us illegally in office while we stall the process till it’s too late for the FHC to decide the case due to INEC timetable.


In law, that’s an abuse of court process. You can’t get away with such nonsense. David Mark will not be recognized until the FHC rules on the matter. No matter the media noise, propaganda and blackmailing, INEC will never disobey the court order. Go back to Justice Nwite and show cause why Bala Gombe should not be declared the National Chairman. Period.

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All praise Hon Nafiu Lamidi Apapa Bala Gombe.

Peruez01:
Let her leave America, so that she won't be a beneficiary of stolen resources..
You can't criticize a nation and still be enjoying their basic amenities
Simple

We would gladly welcome her in Nigeria or she can go to Iran and nationalize

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What nonsense. She is American.

MrEar:
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Nobody is wasting your time, you atheist. You clearly enjoy this. If your time was so important you could have easily taken and lost this debate with any popular AI app trained on trillions of tokens, but instead you came here to Nairaland to argue with Christians because you assume their knowledge is limited giving you an advantage to sound intelligent.

Oh well, enjoy yourself.

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Why did you put a plus sign before your response? ? ?

Desist forthwith.

And I am not an atheist. You assume.

Finally, my discussions on these matters are from an interest in human, not mechanical thought.

Kukutente23:
Their crime was being formed from clay.
He answered in Isaiah 45! Is he still guilty or now cleared of any wrongdoing?

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But God formed them of clay, they didn't form themselves.

Stop wasting my time with sarcasm and be serious.

Kukutente23:
Anger!! It rests in the bosom of fools

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That was not anger. He has no business here.

Kukutente23:
Oh ok your problem is the narrative. Hmmm. It's a big one. I wonder why no one ever thought about the inconvenience of such narrative when they wrote it. If only it was your erudite self who wrote the bible, it would have been so flawlessly written such that no lack of logic or reasoning could ever have been spotted in it.
But I'm surprised that this is the first time you're seeing it. If you read your Bible from Genesis, you would have found the absurdity right there from that first chapter, and then you wouldn't have to travel so far into such an illogical book to see that such an episode already occurred in Exodus, the second book. God it was who wouldn't let Pharaoh yield to Moses' request which He sent Moses to request of Pharaoh. Such twisted logic. Why send a man on an errand that will prove impossible to complete because of your own interference? Why don't you just kill Pharaoh and his firstborn son from the onset instead of making a theatric of them before climaxing the drama at the Red sea?!! If only God was as logical as you!!
Unfortunately, if you had read your Bible from the beginning, you would have seen that God himself already answered your question as to why he chooses to do what he does the way he prefers and not the way you would prefer. Now go read Exodus 7 and get the answer that God himself supplied you so that you do not go about asking the sons of men to defend God in your court when he already provided his own defence. You may now carry out your sentencing most fair judge.

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This made me smile. Nicely written with a splash of humour.

I went to read Exodus 7 as you recommended. In short it says that it's all to glorify God right?

Then the Lord said to Moses, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet. 2 You are to say everything I command you, and your brother Aaron is to tell Pharaoh to let the Israelites go out of his country. 3 But I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and though I multiply my signs and wonders in Egypt, 4 he will not listen to you. Then I will lay my hand on Egypt and with mighty acts of judgment I will bring out my divisions, my people the Israelites. 5 And the Egyptians will know that I am the Lord when I stretch out my hand against Egypt and bring the Israelites out of it.”

Don't you think such a narcissistic reason is loathsome?

Kukutente23:
How are they innocent people? Who tried them and declared them innocent?

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What was their crime and how were the involved?

Kukutente23:
Now this is some deep shite
But will DeepSight see it?

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I have said before that this excuse could have flown if it was simply said that God took their lives and gave no reason. But once an absurd and psychotic reason is given, it is open to interrogation. In this case -

1. It is said that God was the one who instigated the census
2. He got angry over what he instigated
3. He then threw a fit over what he instigated and killed 70, 000 innocents - leaving out David who he had instigated

Be honest, this makes no sense.

And let me tell you the most important thing here. The most important thing about this line of questioning is that it is not so much questioning God, but it is questioning the absurd tales men tell.

cc: Babinski

basilico:
Add Gutenberg's invention of the printing press.The bible became widely available, translated into other languages apart from Latin, different interpretation distinct from the Papal Edicts came to the fore.
Islam is rigid. What's in the Quran can never be changed till the last day. Every command is eternal and deviation will lead to a death sentence. Those who know where it might be in error never speak publicly about it. It's drilled into the adherents from cradle to grave that it's the unchanging word of Allah.
I'll give a historical context to covering the hair and body by women. An early aide told the prophet that he had seen his wife going out uncovered ( implication - other men feasted their eyes on her). So a revelation was brought down. Women must cover themselves fully from head to toe to avoid tempting the eyes of men .Strict adherents demand full body cover today.. Saudi Arabia, Taliban, ISIS etc

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Spot on re: printing press, and many other factors. A TV01 will never avert his mind to that.

Re: covering of women, this predated Islam if I am not mistaken.

And it truly says alot about the USA and their system that they can have a man like this as president twice.

And that so many can worship him cultishly.

budaatum:
A third way to view this is, he simply understands that others believe in the resurrection and he is the Mayor of all regardless of belief, because that is what wise leaders do.

An example is the Olufon of the Orolu Kingdom. Whatever their religion, they will go church, go mosque, do Obatala, do Ogun, do Owala, and bọ'osa before market every 5 days.

The wise and knowing do not let ignorant beliefs stop them doing what they know is right and proper.

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Agreed.

ResidentSnitch:
Una sure say Trump never go full blown wackoo?

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The truth is that the signs are there. But the USA can never summon the courage to invoke the 25th Amendment.

ono:
True to some extent, Deep. But we have to look at the enabling factors (if you like, environment) that allowed this (egalitarian societies) to thrive. Now, It was "rebellion" that made Martin Luther, particularly the posting of his 95 Theses in 1517, that challenged the Catholic Church's practices, especially the sale of indulgences, leading to a significant split in Western Christianity known as the Protestant Reformation. Luther's actions made the Church look inwards and ultimately birthed the age of "enlightenment". People realised that they can read things for themselves (especially the Bible), learn and not be spoon fed by priests and Popes - and the Church leadership agreed!

My point is that whichever way you want to look at it, the Judeo-Christian background still remain the catalyst that is at the root of the freedoms and egalitarian societies that we have going for Western Civilisation as it is today. Luther was a Christian and after him, many other Christian "activists" came to the fore to lead many of the "improvements" in Christendom and in Western Societies that we are enjoying today.

In contrast, the Islamic religion has failed to "evolve" (as you rightly noted) over the centuries - and the result of their backwardness is evident to all as it is today. What I don't understand though is how we have progressives in places like the UK, France and even now I hear Scandinavian countries, all embracing the evil that is inherent in present day Islam. Although I read that it was "paid for". I guess we can't explain away everything, there some things that are better left to time to reveal.

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This is very well and soberly written and demonstrates a good grasp of history.
What is evident there is the evolution arising from conflict of views - which is natural to the development of humanity. This has little to do with the specific dictates of a particular religion.

HeatSeeker:
The reason for his anger was not explicitly stated, but common! This same story was recorded in another book of the bible and it was stated that the devil is the one who tempted David to sin. The bottom line remains that David took action he wasn't meant to and reaped the consequences for his poor decision making.

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It is still strange that you can put this on David when it clearly says God instigated it. Are you saying David could have resisted God?

HeatSeeker:
In this particular story, was the Ransome paid?

The answer to the second question has already been given in the first statement...
And the anger of the Lord stirred against Israel

Someone has to initiate the events that will trigger the punishment. For this particular case, it was David, the King who did so.

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No, it says God himself instigated David.
What was the reason for his initial anger. Even if you look for it in the preceding chapters, you will not see why.

Dtruthspeaker:
So, there are 2 different mighty God(s)? Or that God changed?
Please stop taking rubbish just because you are not able to explain a situation you do not immediately understand.

Yes, you are right that God is the All Ruling King so He does what He pleases. However, we have all seen that He always has a good reason for acting and verse 1 said so.

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That chap is on a level of intelligence, clarity and rationality that it will take you a number of lifetimes to get to, so you had better humble yourself and calm down.

GodHimself:
Options:

1. The passage is a metaphor or allegory, not meant to be read literally. It has a deeper hidden meaning.

2. Those are his people and he can kill them if he wants, like the Nigerian government killing Nigerian citizens when they "disobey".

Psalm 22:28.
In the King James Version (KJV), it reads:
"For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations."

3. God is subject to human-like emotional reactivity like jealousy, anger, murderous rage followed by repentance.

Exodus 32:14 ►
King James Bible

And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

4. The God in the old testament is not the God Jesus referred to as Father.

John 8:44
New International Version
44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Choose one.

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No. 4 seems the most viable.