₦airaland Forum

^^^ Here's your answer from the scriptures -

John 17:22-23
  [22] And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: [23] I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

^^^ Hi Easylogic -

Its been a while. Nice to hear your easy logic again!.

I do not think that your summation is apt for the very simple reason that the conception of GOD is left to the individual deist. The initial description and definition you gave may be good for some but not for others. There is however ONE ground of unity -

The simple ground of unity simply is the existence of a Supreme Being who is GOD - mark the words "supreme being" - namely we refer to the Ultimate Deity.

All of the premises you set out relating to "an omnipotent" God that you set out equally apply to the very same GOD that we all speak about.

Thus we have a Christan Theist who believes in God, but regards HIM as a Trinity. This is absolutely different from a Muslim Theist who denies the Trinity. Nonetheless they both remain Theists!

Thus the point being that the "peculiar conception of GOD" that each person has may be personal and unique - but this does not change the fact that we refer to the Ultimate Deity of all Existence. THE CREATOR OF ALL EXISTENCE.

This is only natural when you consider that we are all different: and must thus have differnet perspectives. For example, both myself and say Krayola for example may know of Easylogic: but we may not describe or understand Esaylogic in teh same way. Being different people, we may perceive different things about Easylogic - this does not change that we both refer to Esaylogic!

For this reason all that you have said, is in my view, neither here nor there.

^^^ Except that such Physics can also be used to justify the Holy Trinity Of Horus, Isis and Osiris - the Egptian Triad which pre-dated Christian Trinitarian Ideas by centuries.

Pagan triads which are the predecessors of your Trinity.

So Viaro: based on the physics you set out above, the Egyptian Triad is also sound and true: no?

Let it be clear - any clown can produce zillions of phyical phenomena that serve as a seeming basis for spiritual propositions -

I can equally use the laws of gravity, permanence of energy and cause and effect to justify my belief in Karma and reincarnation - though you would not accept that!

There are many many chemical formations that involve many amounts of different compounds - and it could equally be asserted that God is 4, 5, 6, 7 8, 9 or a million beings in one based on any agglomeration of equal chemical substances.

C.rap!

I have never seen such great hypocrisy in my life before.

Worse still: paucity of comprehension of the very scriptures which some deluded Christians regard as the basis for their shrivelled spiritual existence.

I am utterly dumbstruck that the very essence and meaning of Christ's supposed sacrifice is entirely lost on persons who vaunt their Christianity with sickening monotony on this Forum.

Let me ask them this; If Jesus came to the earth, suffered death, rose again, and supposedly returned to heaven: what had he "lost?" - What had he "sacrificed?" - "What had he "laid down?" - If this is all there is to it, then he had laid down NOTHING because all intangible beings come to the world and pass away onto the spiritual ANYWAY.

Thus I need to get it across to the supposed "Christians" - Aletheia, Inesqor (Mavenbox), Viaro, Nuclearboy & company: the doctrine of salvation is synonymous with a genuine "sacrifice" on the part of Christ: namely that whereas he was previously non-contingent - now he is contingent: having laid aside his perfect divinity to enter the world and be associated with us and reconcile us to God: thus that whereas once he existed without need for us: he voluntarily brought us into association with the core of his being through the sacrifice at Golgotha - and thereby made us one with him: a perfect rose - a virgin now complete in unison with Christ which is now acceptable unto God.

Does it not strike you that this very “oneness” with Christ is the basis of the statement by Jesus that we must “eat his flesh and drink his blood” – a symbolic ritual affirmation of the core association with his very transcendent and perfect being which then reconciles humanity in perfection as a stainless virgin – as the body of Christ – to ALMIGHTY GOD.

This is the spiritual basis of the claim by the Christian to oneness with the deity of Christ and ultimately to unity with God.

You know very well I do not believe the foregoing personally but for many years I was a Christian and as far as I know this is the core meaning and understanding of the salvation of Christ which makes the gospel of Christ and his salvation unique and different from that espoused by the human-led doctrines of other religions.

I can hardly explain how staggering it is that the likes of Inesqor and Viaro are here unable the grasp the deepest core of what it means to be “Christian”: namely the core significance of the sacrifice of Christ and its implication in drawing the Christian into holy unity with God. In this, Pastor Joagbaje has it well wrapped up and I need not quote any scriptures to affirm this as he has quoted many already: regrettably all I see is the usual willingness by Christians to reject the very words of Christ himself.

You guys need to return to your scriptures and gain a sound understanding of the fundamentals of the religion that you hold so dear.

wirinet:
Honestly, i have no problems with regarding all the aggregation of causes resulting in the universe we perceive today as God.

I rest on this.

karo93:
It is very funny to see that jesus always referred to himself as the son of God and said the father was greater than him.jn.14.28 and yet others want him to be God and equal with his father.very funny.

That's becaus ethey have repeatedly shown that they have ABSOLUTELY NO RESPECT for the words of Jesus himself.

Church dogma is more important than Jesus.

I bet you if Jesus appeared in the sky today and screamed: "Hallo folks - jus to set the record straight, i am not God!" -

The Trinitarian will tell you that he is speaking symbolically and perhaps just to teach us humility: and proceed to maintain that Jesus is God - thereby calling Jesus (God) a liar.

The trinitarian has no qualms doing this over and over again.

Besides is it really a coincidence that Mavenbox has NOT MADE A SINGLE POST since Inesqor registered? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

That is TOO MUCH OF A COINCIDENCE.

Out with it jaaare!

InesQor:
And what movie characters are you on about?

Example. . .

InesQor:
My opinion of this anonymous atheist's perspective is that he/she expects Christians to feel the weight of the pending damnation to the extent that they wild-eyed, mad with rage to protect a human life, should accost everyone they encounter and yell at them until they submit to the Lordship of Jesus, much the same way a truly compassionate human will do anything at the risk of appearing insane to stop people from driving to their death over a cliff.

This is like the same way Will Smith, in a ravingly mad conspiracy-inclined manner in I, Robot kept trying to tell people to stay clear of the evil NS-5 robot series, and he looked foolish, paranoid, and broke the law when it was necessary to do so, in order to protect the human race.

Mavenbox's favourite analogies were with movies and movie characters.

InesQor:
@Tudor & Deep Sight: If thinking I am mavenbox makes you feel better, by all means please be my guest. But then, Tudor, you never answered the question in the OP.

Please be out with it before it becomes another fiasco.

Is the Feb. 22nd exit of Mavenbox and the Feb. 22nd entry of Inesqor a coincidence?

Also now that i think about it, your analogies of hot-air balloons and movie-characters are spot - on Mavenbox give-aways.

Jagunlabi I insist -

If you will reflect; you may recognise that a reality that actuates every conceivable logical or illogical possibility is diametrically opposed to the existence of a reality in which any form of meaningfulness may exist; much less harbour intelligent beings.

Might i ask if you think that it is possible that YOU jagunlabi -

 1. Are the First Cause and Prime Mover of all existence - namely that you are GOD himself - YOU exclusively: and no one else?

 2. Are in fact the master-mind of 9/11

 3. Are an ant; dwelling in an ant-hill in Kathmandu: and your entire existence and writing on this Forum are the imaginations and fantasies of the Ant.

I postively assert that a non-circumscribed reality which you posit is incapable of existence as it destroys every signal vestige of meaning required for finite existence.

Only a being which is the investiture of the 10th Dimension outside all space and time can exist in such a condition.

That is instructive on the true meaning of omnipotence.

wirinet:
My brother how are you doing? I see you are still asking those questions that a lot of people have dealt with over and over again.

Nobody has ever addressed these questions for me on this Forum.

We cannot eliminate the possibility of a first cause, just as we cannot eliminate the possibility of a second cause or a series of second causes as a result of the first cause. Also there is the possibility of many first causes goings on to cause multiple second causes and third causes. We might be a result of multiple causes.

In philosophical terms any multidude of causes cannot be traceable to a further multitude. I am certain that that is inconceivable under the principles of cause and effect and i dare say mathematics. It rather makes sense to hold apparent causes as reducible in origin to a reducing number of causes and given that an infinite regress of causes is internally inconsistent with the very meaning of the term "Causation" - then we can only have ONE  ultimate cause.

And even if the foregoing is flawed: which you will have to show me; then i may still ask what is wrong with regarding a multitude of Causes as God; afterall God is said to be Infinite and Compound, no?

I do not understand what you mean by FIRST CAUSE possessing the quality of intelligence. You have to please explain what you mean by intelligence. To me intelligence connotes some kind of brain activity or at worst some kind of Neural activity. Are you suggesting that the first cause possesses a brain?

YOU are an atheist who is a non-materialist; as such i am surprised that you imagine the quality of Intelligence to be strictly contingent on matter.

^^^ Otherwise, given your computer-simulated idea of reality then all semblance of meaning immediately and irretrievably collapses into absolute meaninglessness.

If you will reflect; you may recognise that a reality that actuates every conceivable logical or illogical possibility is diametrically opposed to the existence of a reality in which any form of meaningfulness may exist; much less harbour intelligent beings.

^^^Do you realize that given the infinity of possible information, you will NEVER arrive at a point, no matter how advanced you are; where you can categorically state anything to be impossible.

Including the possibility that the goat i slaughtered yesterday was actually ALMIGHTY God visiting the world and looking for a goatish adventure.

Or that Yaradua is actually a disguised Beyonce Knowles.

We must accede that there are somethings which as rational beings we can categorically reject.

Maedan -

So how come JWs are able to give away all their stuff free. They welcome only voluntary donations, y'know.

But your bible states that Jesus was "begotten" by that Creator, no?

If he is begotten, then he is not the Eternal Uncreated Almighty God, simple.

Because God is absolutely uncreated and unbegotten.

God is.

Deny that.

^^^ So what about in the r.ape and in.cest cases? Should they be compelled to keep the child?

Also what if i use protection, and condom come burst? And me and my partner, we be both 14 years old na?

Make we still keep the pikin?

Just to address a few of the posers some honest folks here have raised.

On Jesus being God -

There is no doubt: nor can even the most vociferous pagan trinitarian apostle deny: that Jesus is emphatically and repeatedly said by the Bible to be "begotten." He is referred to as the "only begotten son of God."

Indisputably, being "begotten" connotes a beginning: namely that one who is "begotten" began to exist at a point.

It is well agreed that God himself has ALWAYS existed and thus was not "begotten" at any time.

This alone is sufficient for the discerning mind to understand that Jesus being a "begotten" being, cannot be the eternal and uncreated Almighty God who has no beginning.

This is very simple, lucid and clear. But expect pagan trinitarian apostles to deny the patently obvious, in their rabid and racially-inferior-inspired bid to worship an innocent late jewish teacher - a man like themselves.

Nothing could be more pagan, crude, and emphatically denigrating of the quality of human spirituality.

Bank notes; Jagunalabi?

Nah.

Especially when you consider that Nature is considerably alien to such things as Money; Signatures; Central Banks; Serial Numbered Paper, etc.

Like i said a corpse could become the wind for all i know. . .

But a bank note? Nah.

@ My Joe: Have you considered that money is actually made from selling the human parts to ritualists and not from turning corpses straight into bank notes?

Lawd. Where have i been and how did i miss this thread?

Viaro decietfully defending his embarrasing worship of a fellow proven mortal human being as God yet again? ? ?

When will this fellow end this pagan trinitarian joke? ? ?

Bizzarre stuff.

If i was told that a natural element (such as a human body) could go through a natural process (such as treatment with herbs) and morph into another natural element (such as the wind; or energy). . . I could begin to grapple with that -

But when i am told that a natural element (such as a human body) morphs into an artificial element (such as bank notes) I cannot believe that.

sinequanon:
OK, I am not religious but I am interested in understanding the sense in which Christians say Christ died for all of mankind.

My question is this. If Jesus had not have died on the cross, what would have happened differently to mankind?

Simple: there would have been no crusades; no spanish inquisition; no crooked bussinessmen pastors fleecing you of your money. . .

My, looks like a better world!

The very fact that sin remains and flourishes in the world, 2000+ years after Christ supposedly "conquered" sin on the cross, is more than enough for the non-deluded to see that the judicial execution of that one man is perfectly meaningless in terms of redeeming the spiritual state of mankind as a race.

[quote author=Evang. Olu link=topic=406182.msg5618447#msg5618447 date=1267605348]If Jesus had not died for mankind we would have all been lost in sin which will eventually lead all men to hell.

After the fall of man, God had to make a redemption plan to bring man back unto himself that's why he sent Jesus to die for the sins of men.

Remember! you have a choice to make either heaven or hell and nothing unclean can enter into heaven; sin can never enter there. Since God wanted men to be with Him in heaven he had to send Jesus to die for us so as many that refuse Jesus and die will eventually go to hell.

If you want to know him so that you won't be lost. Please follow this simple steps which will cost you nothing but would rather make your life acceptable before you God.

1. Admit that you are a sinner. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 3:23; Romans 6: 22 "But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life."
23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

2. Repent now "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;" Acts 3:19. "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1John 1:9.

3. Believe that God loves you and that Jesus died for you. "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8

4. Invite Jesus into your life through the prayer of faith. "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." Revelation 3:20

If you follow this steps and you continue to live a christian life. I promise you that you will see Jesus.

Thanks.
Souls Must Be Saved[/quote]What is the meaning of this? ? ? ?

What is Judgement?

Dolemite:
Lol, i have found the truth, God doesn't exist and i don't expect you to be convienced, years ago i was naive and blind just like you. . .believing there's a God in the sky, watching over me and if i don't conform to his laws he'll cast me into the firey pits of hell. . .but he loves me lmao.

Hi Dolemite -

Let's have a walk through.

From the foregoing it is manifestly clear that your problem with the God idea is the ridiculous description of GOD and his purposes set forth by religion, myth and legend. For you said - ". . . .believing there's a God in the sky, watching over me and if i don't conform to his laws he'll cast me into the firey pits of hell. . .but he loves me lmao."

Can we set religion firmly aside: i myself despise religion - and i subscribe to none.

Given that the assertions of Religion are nonsensical -

Does this -

1. Eliminate the logical consistency of the existence of a FIRST CAUSE for all that exists?

2. Eliminate the possibility that that FIRST CAUSE could posess the quality of intelligence?

Please answer me on these: and we may progress the discussion.

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=408242.msg5630783#msg5630783 date=1267770816]Am I the ONLY one that thinks this character is the same person as the disgraced mavenbox?

Is it a coincidence you registered around the time mavenbox was shamed?

Trust that pissy little b!tch to stick around.[/quote]Jesus Christ. I just did a quick check and found that Inesqor's VERY FIRST POST on NL was made on February 22 2010.

Mavenbox's last post on NL was made on February 22 2010.

On that day, Mavenbox died and Ineqor was born.

Oh, no: not again. . .when will the deception stop?

Well the purpose has been accomplished! The Noet has showed up!

^^^ Spot on Wirinet: Its really just same ol human hypocrisy at work.

These are the same goons who will also insist that a woman must keep a pregnancy which was the result of a violent r.ape: even if such was perpetuated by her father or uncle.

jOKERS. . . Did he not say that he is the head and you are the body?

So should a true christian not in essence be one with christ?

And if you are one with christ and christ is one with God, then you are one with God!

So all Christians are God!

Deluded brain-washed slaves of the white man

@ Maeda/ debosky etc. . .

What about Jehovah's witnesses? They print the highest quality Christian Literature in the world AND HAVE NEVER CHARGED ANY BODY A SINGLE CENT FOR IT.

@ Mazaje -

Mount Everest is a physical thing.

Answer me these questions -

When solid materials are heated up what do they become?

Is the answer that they melt and become liquid?

When Liquid is heated up, what does it become?

Is the answer that it becomes a gas?

Does this tell you anything about a progression of solids to non - solids?

Now look at the process in reverse.

Does this tell you anything about the emergence of solids from non-solids?

Thus the emergence of tangibles from intangibles?

^^^ Cibilola, the shape of that pear is very highly suggestive. . .