₦airaland Forum

Indeed Kunle, i only just saw it now, you know this is one of the subjects i am most concerned about.

Human beings have a natural tendency to hero-worship.

The hero-worshipping instinct, i will adduce in a future thread, is actually firm psycological evidence for the existence of a supeme being: God: the ultimate hero. But i digress.

Back to hero worship. It is my view that hero worship is the cardinal plank on which christian dogma seems to have derailed.

First hero-worship of Jesus of NAZARETH, despite his admonitions against worshipping him - and his adjurations towards worship of GOD only.

Then hero-worship of the apostles through canonization. I must wonder if Christ would have supported the idea of cannonizing humans as saints given his words against calling even himself good: emphasizing that only God is good. How then do we hero-worship humans and declare them "holy" by cannonizaing them as saints? Over to Chukwudi44.

Then by hero-worship pf Popes. The doctrine of papal infallibility even going so far as to declare the pope "infallible." Good grief.

Nowadays in Nigeria we have inched towards what i may term "pastoral infallibility", another vicious form of hero worship in which our pastors are virtually deified as God. The cardinal plank on which this has been built up is that fraudulent refrain - "touch not his anointed. . ."

In all of this where is the ideal of christian humility, modesty and equanimity? Why do we have the aggressive, abusive and empty sort of christianity espoused by motor-park touts lacking ethics, upbringing and civility such as Davidylan?

Yes, can we get back to this. It seems to me that Tudor and Wirinet had to take to their heels given the fact that this thread appears to have shown up serious internal inconsistencies within their atheistic dogma: to wit -

In the case of wirinet - his concession that non-physical things exist

In the case Tudor - his admission that the material world exists for the purpose of supporting non-material life.

I will cherish these concessions and regard them as my Christmas present from the Atheist Community after a hard half year's work on NL.

Merry Christmas.

Kunle Great work. Ride on.

Maven, just be yourself: there are over 400, 000 peeps on this forum and so you will find all sorts. If a long post inspires even just 1 person, its worth the while.

Many may be impatient, but believe me there are many quiet readers who lap it all up, get inspired and go away silently.

I'm not saying brevity is not good: am saying Just be yourself.

You are talented: and it is the prerogative of the talented to be eccentric or idiosyncratic. To hell with democracy.

That being said although i love you to bits and am broken hearted that you have consigned me to the wastebin, i do think that an excess of dogma within your propositions is also a turn-off.

One love.

No: Because Pastor AIO although a theist, is a most unconventional kind of theist: he is not limited by the bounds of dogma such as the ritualistic Davidylan.

Pastor does describe himself as Christian: but he is anything but the everyday sort of dogmatic christian. He is a liberated big-mind.

He gets my vote.

^^^ And what is Mazaje if not the King of Atheists?

Pastor AIO is my pick.He's simply and utterly big-brained.

Tudor, i have no business with the OP, but let me just say as a diversion that i have worked in Kenya and Uganda, and i can comfortably state that they are a slightly different lot than west africans in terms of the generality of their skin. . .

Now the truth is historically eastern and southern african people have been subject to greater inter-race mixing than many west africans, so you can detect a slight deviation from pure negroid in many (not all o) of them.

I also read a report of a study of gene pools in Africa and it was found that west africans as a group are probably the only core and generally unspoilt negoroes in the african continent as at today.

These are not fixed facts, but only very brodd generalistic observations which i think contain some truth as i have been extensively in east and south africa.

As to black jews i dont know anything about that, but there were trade relations in the past - Egypt/ Ethiopa etc.

I will be the General Overseer

Please let us start intensive saving for the following urgent needs.

  1. Private Gulf Stream Jet for General Overseer

  2. Church Building Fund for Massive Tithe Collection Arena in Lekki for the poor

  3. Agreement with Interswitch to facilitate automatic online remittance of tithes direct from clients bank accounts.

  4. All clients (worshippers, our mugus) should be made to face a polygraph test to determine if they are lying about their income. Any Deviants will receive the Ananias and Saphira treatment. Since we don't have the Holy Ghost to strike them dead, Tudor can use a big stick from behind on their heads or i will employ a juju man to acheive this for the church.

  5. Ten percent is far too small. Offering should be 70 per cent of all our clients incomes.

  6. Children must also remit 70 per cent of their pocket Money.

  7. Corporate Bodies should be encouraged to pay tithes. If they do not, our massive followership will boycott their products.

This Church can never fail.

^^^ Really Maven?

If you never heard about Jesus, would that relieve you of all responsibility to live right in good conscience and strive towards love and Human Brotherhood and peace? Just like million who lived an died without a knowledge of that particular man?

Would there by nothing like high ideals or principles in your life?

I cannot understand that such should only exist by reference to Jesus of Nazareth: I really need to understand your mindset on this? ? ?

@ OP - Does it matter?

Red Indians living in the Americas 500 years ago all lived and died without ever hearing of any Jesus or his sacrifice at Golgotha.

Perhaps they have missed "Salvation."

What a laugh.

mavenbox:
I believe Bimbo Odukoya, who I knew personally, is in heaven cos she had the single criterion for salvation (deciding to live for Christ). Everything else is dross.

So you have appointed yourself the Judge? How do you know if she was not something else in private or in her heart. Is it not true that only God can Judge?

What does it mean to live for Christ? Why not live for Olumba Olumba Obu (who is God) or Guru Maharaji (who is the reincarnated Christ) or the Japanese Emperor (who is God)? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Maven, o ti de o.

Atheists:
Yes God gave us free will, we have no choice to accept it or turn it down

You can turn it down, its very easy - just commit suicide.

davidylan:
Jesus Christ is coming soon . . . whether its palatable to you or not.

Don't worry, i can also assure you that Santa Claus is coming soon. . . afterall, its christmas!

2000 years is your definition of "soon" and 10, 000 years down the line your sleepwalking descendants to whom you will have bequethed your improbable foreign myth will still be saying "soon. . ." Grow up son. Santa Claus aint coming this christmas anymore than Jesus is coming to pack your bags and have you raptured to your puerile dreamland fantasy.

Did your carpeter-turned-God not state that he would return in the clouds in glory within the lifetime of some who were still alive then.

What is that if not a lie or a drunken deluded fantasy? ? ?

Chris - Your thoughts are entirely valid.

And indeed it must make the thoughtful person wonder what exactly GOD would require of mankind. And by mankind i mean the WHOLE of mankind.

Methinks sincerity of heart and earnestness are the best that could be required.

Not subscription to improbable and outlandish foreign legends.

The truth is that no amount of intellectualism can save anyone, if anything at all i am certain that it stands in the way. That simple rural person stands a much better chance of finding and understanding Truth in all its great simplicity than any erudition can muster.

That's why i despise the sort of christianity that requires people to accept dogma they know nothing about.

Why should anyone for eaxample have to know anything about ANY of the following rituals -

1. Supposed Adamic sin, via which the entire human race is labelled "guilty."

2. Animal Sacrifices (OT) for temporary freedom from that supposed guilt

3. The supposed incarnation of the Almighty GOD on earth as a Jewish man. . . (Olumba Olumba Obu. . . Guru Maharaji. . . similar claims. . .)

4. The supposed immaculate conception via which the said Jewish man entered the world without any prior act of copulation on the part of his supposed parents

5. The judicial murder of that Jewish man along with some criminals and the supposition that the murder in question amounts to "salvation" for the whole world

6. The paganistic Trinity Doctrine

Altogether you will agree that these things read similar to some psuedo oriental myth. But the force of history is such that these things are cherished as inviolable truth. A few days ago i told my colleague that the Bible does not teach that Jesus is God. She glared at me with wide eyed consternation and asked me to keep my distance, for such heresy. This same person will scoff at the claims of Olumba Olumba Obu to be God, forgetting that if a foreign nation invaded Nigeria today, and adopetd Olumba Obu's sect as its state religion, hundreds of years down the line many millions of people influenced by that foreign power would believe unconditionlly and dogmatocally that Olumba Olumba Obu is God.

It would have been comical if it were not so sad. The sad bit being that millions of people actually feel free to lead thoroughly sinful lives on the presupposition that Christ "has saved them" already on the cross.

Love, and only love is the way.

Tudor - will discuss better by email.

Tudor - Can you pls modify the quote in your penultimate post, i am not sure that should remain public, thanks.

edit

Tudor we need to talk business urgently.

^^^ Yes it is a foolish sham, i agree.

And i believe its bevoming obvious that your problem is with Religion, (or religious ideas of God) and not God per se.

I think that is the only way i can rationalize this, as it has to be said your offering in this thread does no credit to your supposed atheism or the reasons (or lack of reasons) for it.

Pastor AIO:
First off, DeepSight, this is not a oneupmanship thing going on here. We are discussing salvation. I'm not on any team if you guys are doing debating society amongst yourselves.

E pe le o. E ma binu sir. I am not aware that i have suggested "oneupmanship" or "team" or "debating society" at all.

I feel very strongly about the issues here.

If you are offended that i thought your posts were brilliant than i apologize for stating so.

Bravo, Pastor, really great work. Just utterly brilliant. I myself didn't really know where to start from, but you have just nailed everything away fantastically.

Jesoul, where are you?

I want to see your response particularly to this -

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Jesoul, this one is quite clear isn't it? ? ? ? ? ? ?

That confessing him as "lord, lord. . ." is nothing, but doing the will of the Father is everything. . . . .? ? ? ? ?

Tudor, confess now: YOU ARE A MAN: AND A VERY ROUGH AND READY HARD HANDED TYPE FOR THAT MATTER.

REMOVE THAT " F " FROM YA PROFILE NOW!

You have been warned.

Jesoul: before you take to flight, might i enquire if Hebrews says faith must be in the sacrifice on the cross, or it speaks about faith in God.

My memory does not serve me well, so please help.

Thx mi love.