₦airaland Forum

Olabowale: I am sure you have a daughter.

Would you give her hand in marriage to ANYBODY at the age of 9 for ANY reason?

If yes, please, i am coming with my family to pay dowry tomorrow.

How dare you justify crass barbarism!

Krayola: this debate is already thousands of years old and will carry on for many more millions of years.

Its the ultimate question of our existence.

We can never get tired of it.

Have you ever seen gravity?

Or Magnetism?

We can only feel these things.

How much more the uncaused cause?

Take time o.

Its fairly obvious that the deification of the woman who gave birth to the Jewish Carpenter (AFTER NORMAL SEXUAL INTERCOURSE WITH SOMEBODY) is occassioned by the marriage between pagan Roman ideas and early christianity.

Get educated. The Roman pagans were obsessed with the ancient goddess of fertility called Ishtar in Babylon, Aphrodite in Greece, and also known as Venus or Diana.

When two cultures mix, many elements are transposed. The deification of the mother of the carpenter is one of such.

Other elements include the Easter Egg (a pagan symbol of fertility), the christmas tree (another pagan inheritance) etc.

I am sure many catholics may not be aware that the word "Easter" is the english translation for the word "Astarte" - the same pagan goddess of fertility.

Really the lesson then is that ancient dogma is useless both factually and spiritually and this is the big problem with teh Catholic Church.

[b]O my God. I feel such a great sadness in my heart.

How is it possible for grown adults to be so comprehensively brain-washed?

Who is your "Papa"? That dimunitive old theif who as we speak has ordered his second private jet with your tithes?

What would Christ have done? Wake up and think like the adult that you supposedly are!

This same criminal you call your father built a university with Church Donations and made it so prohibitively expensive that only the children of the very richest can attend. Poor souls whose sweat went into building the place cannot even set foot there.

Worst of all the retarded swine some time ago went so far as to attempt to subject all graduating students to a HIV test, stating that any one found HIV positive would not graduate? In today's world? Where forward thinking people are legislating against HIV discrimination.

Oh my God. Can you lot not see what a ride this fellow is taking you on?

He is a business man, and you are his gullible clients.

Don't worry, i am planning to go into this profitable line of business soon.[/b]

Winners Chapel = Big Business

Bishop Oyedepo = Wolf in Sheep's clothiing

Congregation = Herd of Sheep

Tithes = Fools Money for the purchase and maintenance of Private Jets.

Wake up, you clowns.

olabowale:
@Noetic: So that you know Islam is the correct religion, the Youtube has videos library of Christians sects from the First Centuryof Jesus minisry prostrating as they pray. That would be shocking wouldnt it?

Really? Did they have Video Cameras in the First Century?

Winners Chapel = Big Business

Bishop Oyedepo = Wolf in Sheep's clothiing

Congregation = Herd of Sheep

Tithes = Fools Money for the purchase and maintenance of Private Jets.

Wake up, you clowns.

Ashtar! ! !

I am deeply intrigued by your POST!

Please let's discuss much more.

How many dimensions are there in all. . . or are the dimensions infinite?

PLEASE REPLY!

@ Ascony - your post is incredibly short-sighted, apologies for saying so.

The evidence is all around us, it can hardly be God's problem if people choose to be blind.

JUST look at the very palm of your own hand. See how structurally sound it is and adapted for its purpose. I can't imagine that any person who has ever seen the stars, the earth from the moon, or contemplated the universe can deny the existence of God. Even the very pang of conscience is a subtle hint of the existence of the Deity. On this, i will have to agree with the boorish Sauron that it does not seem very clever to deny the existence of an uncaused cause, however one may define that cause.

Abuzola will have to answer these.

I did not dig up the questions from thin air, because i have read the Quoran and i know that the Prophet (peace be upon him) did ALL these things.

Abuzola, please come back and answer these serious questions

So Sauron, i really wanted to test that by-line of yours, but so far you are yet to do it credit. Please go and read the posts of people like Prizm and Pastor AIO, then you will get a feel of real intelligence.

All i have reaped from you are empty platitudes and of course, your customary insults.

E don do jare, i dey go drink beer and squeez some yansh in the strip club.

Later!

The funny thing with this Sauron fellow, is this. I was actually intrigued by his by-line about his intelligence.

So i was eager to get a feel of it, and he is letting me down badly now.

Simple questions - direct quotes from his own bible, and he goes on about grasping the greatness of God. Who is attempting to do that? ? ?

Ol' boy, tell us why it says in Timothy: There is only one God, and one mediator between God and Man, the man Jesus Christ?

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=320966.msg4520765#msg4520765 date=1252612098]Deep sight wants to use his very limited senses to calculate God's infinte greatness.
Some people and their fickle minds. . . . .[/quote]No! God's greatness is not at issue here.

A poor carpenter was sent by God to give Mankind a Divine Message.

In the typical hero-worshipping mentality of Mankind, after he died, they began to equate him with God.

Despite the fact that he repeatedly stated that he was not God, but the Son of God.

Tell me what makeS you different from the followers of Guru Maharaji and Olumba Olumba, who also call these people GOD!

No, not good enough. Flies straight away in the face of reason. (And dont tell be its a mystery, because he did'nt say so.

Further, he backed this up with MANY other statements -

Do not call me good, only God is good.

Not even the son knows the day and hour, (so he is not omniscient) etc.

Give it up, boy!

WE WILL NOT ALLOW YOU TO ESCAPE SO LIGHTLY.

TELL US WHY YOU HAVE BRANDED JESUS A LIAR? ? ?

SAURON THIS IS SAD ESCAPISM AT ITS WORST! ! !

TALKING ABOUT UFOs WHEN A SIMPLE QUESTION IS PUT TO YOU:

"THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I!"

HOW DOES THAT RHYME WITH YOUR INSISTENCE THAT THEY ARE EQUAL? ? ?

WHERE IS SAURON? DONT RUN AWAY AND HIDE UNDER - "We can never understand it". Any lie can be justified by stating - "We can never understand it"

ANSWER! TELL US WHY JESUS IS WRONG IN HIS ASSESSMENT OF HIMSELF AND YOUR OWN ASSESSMENT OF HIM IS CORRECT.

TELL US WHY YOU ARE SMARTER THAN JESUS.

TELL US IN PLAIN ENGLISH THAT JESUS WAS LYING WHEN HE SAID THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN HIM.

TELL US!

I DID NOT SAY GOD DOES NOT EXIST.

I SAID JESUS CLAIMED TO BE INFERIOR TO THE FATHER. YOU CONTRADICT HIM BY CALLING HIM EQUAL.

ANSWER THAT!

(After all, your intelligence begins where the rest of ours peaks)

"Do not call me Good, only God is Good"

"The father is greater than i"

Sauron - go ahead and contradict Jesus. State clearly that Jesus was wrong and you are right.

Co-Equal? You cant sustain that! Jesus clearly said he is NOT equal with the father.

ANSWER THAT!

And how can you go about screaming co-equal, when jesus himself stated that the father is greater than him.

So now you know Jesus' status better than he did himself?

You are talking about common sense - you show us what's so common sensical about your assertion - which contradicts christ's own very words.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=320966.msg4520546#msg4520546 date=1252610251]Discuss Jesus' baptism!!!
The voice, the dove and Jesus himself.[/quote]So? That was God saying this is my beloved son in whom i am well pleased, and anointing him therefore with the holy spirit.

I am shocked that you would think that God would need to be baptised, if you understand the concept of baptism, because it has to do with removal from sin into a new life. Did God need removal from sin into a new life? ? ?

Address the words of Jesus i quoted above - dont run away.

SAURON -

I like the Infinity equation you set up, but we will discuss that later. It only works if you can establish that Jesus even taught the trinity in the first place.

The words of Jesus:



John 8:40: “, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God.”



John 17:3: "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."



Mark 13:32:"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."



John 5:19: "Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does”



John 14:28: "You heard me say,'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."



John 20:17: "Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them,'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”



Mark 10:18: “Do not call me good, only God is good.”



John 17:20-23: “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.”



Guys from the foregoing there can be NO DOUBT, that Jesus NEVER, NOT EVEN FOR ONE SECOND, regarded himself as God. Notwithstanding anything the hero-worshipping Apostles will tell you. But even they said a lot to show that they didn’t think so –



1Timothy 2:5: "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.



1 Peter 1:3: “Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.”



Acts 2:22 - “Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.”



Acts 2:36: “God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”



Let’s face it: the Trinity was created by the Roman Catholic Church and not Jesus Christ, and now people are ready to die to affirm the truth of it, disregarding Jesus’ own words.



So beware: calling him God – or “part of God” – is definitely blasphemy.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=320966.msg4520313#msg4520313 date=1252608612]Tsk Tsk!!!

God exists in three persons who share the same essence or being.
What this means is that God exists in the distinct and co-equal persons of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, but they share a fully divine essence or being, such as uncreatedness, eternality, simplicity (non-composite or indivisible), immutability (unchangeableness), omniscience (all wise and knowing), omnipotence (all powerful), goodness, mercy, holiness, will and freedom, and so on.

Thus, in God, the attributes of his essence are fully shared by three persons, making each person fully God.

Yet, the three persons are distinct. The Father is neither the Son nor the Holy Spirit; the Son is neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son.

But, to repeat, the three persons share the same essence. That is, the Father and Son and Holy Spirit duplicate the same attributes. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are equally wise and merciful and holy; one is not more wise or merciful or holy than the other. Augustine says: "These three have the same eternal nature, the same unchangeableness, the same majesty, the same power".[/quote]Sauron! ! !

Cant you see the inherent contradiction in your surmise? ? ?

You say HE is indivisible, and yet the Son came down to earth while the Father remained on the throne.

You say they are equal, but Jesus said repeatedly: The Father is greater than I?

You say they are all knowing, but Jesus said "The day and hour, no man knows, not the angels, not even the son, but only the father?"

And jESUS referred to the Father as his God - "I return to your father and my father, your God and my God"

Get real, brother.

mazaje:
What is wrong with this deist . Stop putting words into my mouth. . .I know that as a deist you are only interested in the concept of a creator. I never said that people do not believe in the concept of a creator all I said was that all the various cultures have different concept of gods and all of them are mutually exclusive from each other. . . the creator god allah of islam is not the same god as the cator god yahweh of the OT. . .Chineke is not the same god as sango. . . they are all mutually exclusive entities that are NOT the same. . . .

Dont worry, i will accept that "une bierre" in French is not "a beer" in English.

Get real man.

Krayola2:
deep sight, Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva are all equals. . (in some schools)

Check this out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trimurti

I'm in my final term of 4 yr religious studies program. I think i know one or 2 things about religion. One Supreme God is not a universal concept. In fact, some cultures think the idea is crazy.

Just like xtians claim Father, son, & holyspirit are all equals. . .

Does that mean they don't recognise the CREATOR?

No!

[quote author=Mad_Max link=topic=320966.msg4520138#msg4520138 date=1252607482]Compare some How-Life-Began accounts thousands of years ago from civilisations that knew nothing of one another at the time. They're very beautiful.

In the very beginning everything was resting in perpetual darkness; night oppressed everything like an impenetrable thicket,  (The Great Father Creation Story of the Aranda People of Central Australia)

All was in suspense, all calm, all in silence; all motionless and still, and the expanse of the sky was empty(The Popol Vuh of the Quiche Maya)

Na Arean sat alone in space as a cloud that floats in nothingness. He slept not, for there was no sleep, he hungered not, for as yet there was no hunger. So he remained for a great while, until a thought came to his mind. He said to himself, ‘I will make a thing’. (The Maiana people)

Before Heaven and Earth had taken form all was vague and amorphous. That which was clear and light drifted up to become heaven, while that which was heavy and turbid solidified to become earth. Therefore heaven was completed first, and earth assumed shape thereafter. When heaven and earth were joined in emptiness and all was unwrought simplicity. Then without having been created all things came into being. This was the Great Oneness. All things issued from this Oneness but became different.
(China)

And from Genesis:
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

By the time one reads dozens of these accounts, some intriguing similarities emerge.

@Deep Sight
How can Zeus be the Greek equivalent of Jehovah? Are you saying the same God makes multiple appearances in diverse cultures, and yet somehow manages to have a different history and personality in each one?  I’m a Christian, but even then I can appreciate some of Majaze’s arguments.   Try and see things from his perspective for  a change; it doesn’t nullify your faith, it doesn’t make God disappear. You know what you know.[/quote]This is a very beautiful post.

AND IT PROVES THE POINT TO MAZAJE THAT ALL TRIBES HAD A CONCEPTION OF A CREATOR.

As to the Zeus thing: understand: God does not go around changing his character. It is the nuances of different cultures and histories that ASCRIBE different things to HIM. Simple.

Q: If they exist, do they need to accept Jesus as their personal lord and saviour.

Simple question, abeg stop dodging.

mazaje:
What is incredible there? It is a fact. . .yahweh is not the same as allah. . . they are two very different entities that are mutually exclusive in every aspect. . .Africans have a very different concept of god and invented various gods to explain away things to them. . . there are gods of thunder and lightening. . .gods of harvest, conception, gods of the evil forest that ensure discipline, gods for wealth and prosperity etc. . .some ever worship their ancestors. . . monotheism is not really an african concept. . . africans believe in a pantheon of gods. . .when the europeans came they had to incoporate the strongest gods the people were worshiping and apply/integrate the Jehovah concept to it. . .Chineka means something very very different from allah or jehovah. . .read more about chnike here  and see how the concept differs widely from the other forms of the abrahimic concept of god. . .

Are you asserting that other than the Semitic people, no other race ever conceived of a CREATOR?

Who then is Brahman in the Hindu tradition.

What about the Yoruba Creation Myth.

Just because they have other gods doesn't mean they dont have an idea of the CREATOR.

Damn it even catholics are accused of worshipping saints, mary etc. Does that mean they dont know the CREATOR?

Mazaje, clean up your arguments, they are fast spiralling out of the realms of basic logic and basic knowledge

Krayola2:
@ sauron.

The Hindu Brahman is not God. ,  it does not have a relationship with humans, or anything else. They have different gods for different things. There is Brahma, which creates, but does only that, then there are other lesser deities that do different stuff. The idea of One supreme God that is the be all and end all is not Universal. I can put my whole family's life on that.

Exactly! If he is the Creator, then he is GOD! Even in Christianity there are angels, heavenly elders, and many other entities that have spiritual powers and responsibilitties. . . like Jesus, The Arch Angel, etc.

If they also worship the other entities, then may be that is their error.

P.S: I love the way you reacted to Sauron's language. Shows great maturity. Thumbs up.

Christ!

The relevance is that discovered facts may vary with established faith!

OR: they may rattle established ideas!

Its amazing and a bit comical how you have determinedly refused to answer the question.

Looks like you are one of those people who dont want to contemplate the idea cos you fear it will rattle dogma?

No matter how much they dont like to hear it, it will not change the ultimate truth.

The Catholic church ex communicated Galileo Galilei for stating that the earth is not the centre of the universe and that the sun does not revolve around the earth.

Who's laughing now?