₦airaland Forum

Zi: The Catholic Church should rather ask the state govt to hand over the corpses to them, so the can carry out the 'proper' burial. The morgues are too full!

What is wrong with this Catholic people for crying out loud? The same way they told Alfred Blalock and Vivien Thomas not to perform the first ever open heart surgery way back in the 40s because, according to them, the heart is very Sacred. Today the world is better off because Blalock and the Johns Hopkings Hospital called their bluff. If they do not want people to be cremated they (catholic church) should go ahead and build motuaries to keep unclaimed corpses. When they asked the govt to build affordable mortuaries were they going to give the money for the project? This same catholic church is busy fighting the govt of Phillipine for trying to legalise the use of contraceptive in order to check excessive maternity in the poorest families in Manilla. They do not care about the physical/environmental impact of govt decisions, all they care about bible. The bill said valauntary and unclaimed cremation, is that so hard? Lagos state govt should call their bluff and decongest the mortuaries. History has shown that the world would be better of for it if the open heart surgery is anything to go by.

Like cyrexx said, athiests are not angry with God, they are only angry with people who claim he exists. If someone told you there is a lion in one of the rooms in your house or in a particular spot that you are very familiar with, would you be angry with the lion, (especially if you know its not there cos there are no verifiable proof of it being there), or with the person who claims and even acts as if the lion is there and watching? If my son runs out of his room and says Ojuju is in the room and I go there but find no ojuju (obviously) will I be angry with Ojuju or my son, especialy if he starts fretting and starts to beg ojuju not to beat him. That is the atheist's position. They are not angry with God but with God believers and moreso those perpetrating genocides in the name of God as well those fleecing the populace in its name.

Lmfao..... does it mean being black is a religion? Because I can see a statement where the organiser says they do not have the facility to accomodate Muslims and blacks and beside they are not invited to jewish ceremonies.

The philosophy of Atheism represents a concept of life without any metaphysical Beyond or Divine Regulator. It is the concept of an actual, real world with its liberating, expanding and beautifying possibilities, as against an unreal world, which, with its spirits, oracles, and mean contentment has kept humanity in helpless degradation.”
― Emma Goldman, Anarchism and Other Essays

@Okeyxyz,
Both scenarios that you described could be easily explained logically. I am very prone to fever especially malaria. When I was much younger I took quinine to attack malaria when it comes but these days I take ordinary pcm and everything disapears. Throughtout 2011 I never took any anti malaria drug, all I took was paracetamol (pcm) and its not as if I prayed, no. I lost my belief in God in 2010 and effective jettisoned church and their bible in that same 2011 hence I wont claim miracle healing. Let me paint one personal scenario to u. Early this year whenever I wanted to clear phlegm from my nasal region I would spit blood, this went on for a little over a week. I got worried so I went to see a doc who told told me not to be worried and prescribed some drugs to me. I didnt buy the drugs on time so the blood spitting continued. With time I just thot this will go when its ready and if this is what would kill me then so be it. On a particular friday night I went to the club with some friends and while at the club arrd 2am I still spat blood. Arrd 5am I went back to my hse still spitting blood but less worried now. When I got home, I drank some water and hit the bed. When I woke later on saturday I tried to clear my nose again but alas my spittle was as white as snow and till now there is no single trace of blood in my spittle. Now if I had met a friend and prayed, one would have said its a miracle, right? But on the contrary I am an atheist/agnost. I do not believe in miracles.
As concerning your bag, It is very possible that your bag was NEVER stolen. Maybe when u went to browse the books someone found it and took it to the librarian whom you never checked with. All these examples do not cut a real jaw dropping miracles for me. People get well from mild fever everyday without even taking ordinary pcm, some drink water and go to sleep. People loose things and find it intact after several days. So its a no brainer. Real miracles are healing amputees and restoring withered limbs or blind eyes.

Bishop Oyedepo fear so te he no show for court or is it arrogance that makes him think he shouldnt be in court? Why did he go ahead to engage a more expensive lawyer since he knows and believes he is doing Gods work? The bald headed con man knows if he is arraigned in court he would be asked questions in the dock and so that he wont be accused of lying (which he would do if arraigned) he asked his SAN lawyer to tell the court he had to be at the supreme court, bloody rogue. Rather than answer to the case he is busy contending court jurisdiction. Useless theif. He can run but he cannot hide. Those people claiming that people are being slapped everyday should know something: the fact that crimes are commited all the time does not make it right. When Naval rating beat up a lady in public glare we all rose up against the injustice. Now their MOG slaps a lady in public glare and their position sudenly changes. In this 21st century even convicted criminals have rights, animals have and so are confirmed witches. Stagger claimed his fathers housemaid tried to poison him and his bro but isnt this a different scenario? Did the lady Oyedepo slapped try to kill anyone? And dont give me the crap about spiritual killings because that line does not exist in our constitution. One question I would like to ask Oyedepo's supporters is would this bald headed vulture do that in civilised worlds like UK or US in if he allowed his emotions to get the best of him and he slaps what do you think would have been his fate? He would probably be rotting in jail now.

Les: [color=#006600][/color] who gave them to you? Who gave Job all that life? I leave here cause you all atoast no even get point, all your arguments are fallacy, believe me cos you don't know the bible than a repentant! If you can explain this "GOD'S the author and the finisher of our faith" and your explanation is similar to your argument, half consideration, but full consideration if you repent. But if you can't, just know it your self that you all atoast are delusively WRONG!

Who gave me my kids? I slept with my wife and she got pregnant and do you know why i believe this, because for several years my marriage was childless and we went on praying spree with lots of faith to back it up but nothing happened, until we visited the right doctor who gave the right prescription and vwuala!!!! my wife got pregnant...... and dont tell me God gave the doctor his knowledge of medicine because advancement in medicine and other proffessional feilds were achieved through research works, trial and error, mistakes here and there and finally a break thru

redcliff: He made u for his pleasure. He can do whatever he wants to do with anybody ay anytime.

Sorry mate, I dont want to be pleasure of any tyrant being who would choose to kill my lovely kids just to prove a point to his political religious opponent.

buzugee: you acting like a lil bit-ch right about now. you acting like a girl. scoffing at real knowledge. only fools scoff at knowledge so i take it you must be a real fool. you acting like a real mamas girl right about now. talking all that junk and you aint never posted nothing that made sense. shytttt i aint even seen you here before. ok maybe i seen one post or two but nothing to write home about.
on a side note, the story of jesus obviously post-dates the horus and isis story ( which are all adaptations of semiramis tammuz and nimrod of ancient babylonia) but i didnt think a lot people on here are clued up on that story to where i had to be accurate about the heirachy. the point i was trying to make was simply that all spiritual stories from different cultures are hybrids or mutations or adaptations from the original people on the planet, THE BLACK HEBREW MAN AND WOMAN WHO SPOKE THE MOTHER TONGUE, LASHAWAN QADASH. thats the point here. and yes, the first civilization came from the original people on earth. it may have not been officially recognised as a civilization but it was. the earliest recorded civilizations though were the babylonian-persian and medes-greek-roman. but notwithstanding, the first civilization ( albeit not officially recorded as one ) will be the first people on the planet. THE BLACK HEBREWS. and with that, keep ignoring my posts because knowledge is lost on fools. i aint tryna cast pearls before a swine like you idiot

The very reason why I do not think you are sane enough to be engaged in meaningful argument. Just one dissenting view and you resort to allthese? Men you are pathetic. Have fun in your willful delusion and delibrate miscarriage of truth. Honestly I cant stop laughing...... you sound so deranged..... is this what religious delusion is all about.... no wonder several people here are running away from it...... guy you are deluded and definitely in.sane rotfl....lwkmd.....

logicboy01: lol.....Nowhere in the bible does it say that Job was a fearful man. liar

Furthermore, fear is not a reason to accept Satan's request;


[size=14pt]4 “Skin for skin!” Satan replied. “A man will give all he has for his own life. 5 But now stretch out your hand and strike his flesh and bones, and he will surely curse you to your face.”[/size]

FX is only regurgitating what his pastors told him. I was a christian for many years as well and these pastor, doing everything possible to put the blame of the destruction which befell Job (the victim) on himself, go arround quoting the part where Job said 'that which i fear most most came upon me'. What they fail to point out or realise is that whether Job was fearful or not, his fate was sealed in the battle of wits between God and Satan. In the discussion between the two waring parties there was nowhere it was stated that God allowed the misfortune because Job was fearful, nowhere! It all came from the modern day christian who will do everything to shift blame. Talk about cognitive dissonance. And like I said earlier the event never happened, the book of Job is the oldest book in the bible and it does not have a jewish origin, meaning Job had no connection with the Jewish race. The story was stolen from some eastern literature. It is actually a poetic literature.......... but most christians, who have no clue as to the origin of the book, would go arround announcing and believing the story is an actual historical event.

First off, that story, like most other stories in the bible including that of Moses, David and solomon, never happened. However, if the even actually took place like it was described then I dont think I want to serve an egotistical God who will use me to boast before his opponent only for him to allow his opponent to destroy all that I have worked including my children. Even if I have 200 other children does it relplace the relationsip that existed between me and one who were collaterally damaged by God?
I have two beautiful children now and I cannot trade their lives for anything even for the promise of more beautiful children.

cyrexx: LOL
I hope he doesn't hear this and not curse you like Elijah in the Bible did when children called him baldheaded and a bear killed them all.

very funny tithe-collecting inefficient curser

The truth is either of two things but the two point to the same direction.
1) The story of Elijah calling a bear to maul little children who called bald is not historical meaning the event never happened nd its just a figment of someones imagination hence Oyedepo, including everyone that believes the story, believe in a lie. Therefore whatever preaching comes from that source is a lie. Oyedepo is thus a liar because he believes in a lie and propagates the lie.
2) The event happened because Elijah was God's prophet and all prophets called of God have power to perform feats that are not common. However, Oyedepo cannot perform uncommon feats because he does not have the power, he does not have the power because he wasnt called by God therefore Oyedepo is a liar and propagates the lies.
So you see either way we look at it Oyedepo remains a liar and con artist

I wonder how christians treat Joseph Smith's Mormon Theory?

FXKing2012: Pls be very careful how u refer to MOG, this is for ur own good.

If you are afraid of him, that is your own cup of tea. This same you were the one claiming his curse had started working but from the tone of his own voice it seems he doesnt even believe in himself again. And I also repeat he is a bald headed conman/vulture or can you think of any rodent I can use to qualify him?

This is what we stand for

This is what atheism is......

Oh, I thot he cursed them sometime ago, how come he is not asserting the efficacy of the curse rather he is talking about the politics of BokoHaram. He should pray or curse again now, Bald headed vulture

I wonder what inconsistencies madam ishilove is trying to reveal about evo. While I am not a fan or opponent of evo I stil find it hard to believe the abrahamic account of how we got here. Madam ishilove failed to show us the inconsistencies but succeded in publishing articles written about evo in the 60s and 70s, how pathetic. Unlike religion Science is dynamic so it is sheer ignorance to use scientific findings of as little as 5yrs ago for things in contemporary period. Milk chemistry, tear analysis...... what on earth are those. Today we have DNA analysis which has helped humanity in no small means. DNA has been used to solve criminal cases, helped exonerate innocent people who had been formally convicted of crimes they knew nothing about. That DNA analysis says we are 99.5% similar to chimps yet madam ishilove would prefer to use milk chemistry because it says there are flaws in evo theory. Pls before you go ahead to start debunking scientific facts try reading up what the most recent findings about the subject are so you will be better equiped to make sound arguments. One more ...... all scientists are not atheist and all atheists are not scientists. Some of us here reasoned our way out of religion before ever trying to know how science says it could have been.

edicolove: Let me engage you a bit.

There are 2 types of Christianity or you can call it 2 levels of Christianity. One is Christianity as a religion. The other is true Christianity.

Christianity as a religion for example is when you are born by a Christian parents or in a Christian community/society. Here, you are refered to as a Christian. But the problem here is that, according to the bible, that is not what what qualifies one as a Christian.

Let me digress a bit and remind you that the bible does not recognise Christianity. There is nothing like Christianity in the bible and believers in Jesus were never referred to as Christians by God or the apostles. There were addressed as Christians by the "unbelievers". What the bible recognises are people who have submitted their lives to Jesus Christ and the are referred to as believers or the body of Christ or the church (from the greek word, ecclesia which means the called out ones). So Christianity is a term coined out by the roman empire to describe these set of people who were preaching about Jesus Christ. And later when the constantine merged the church and state, he created the religion called Christianity. Yes, those who believe in Jesus Christ today now refer to themselves as Christians but that actually is not proper. But for the basis of this discus, we will use the word Christianity for now.

That is why I said there are 2 types of Christianity. According to the bible, what qualifies one as a true believer or what we might call a true christian is when a man totally accepts the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ as redemption from sin and death and totally accepts and declares Jesus as his Lord and saviour. So one born by a christian parents is not recognised by the bible as a Christian. In fact, according to the bible, even if you attend church all your life and never truly accept Jesus as your Lord and savior, you are not a Christian.

So yes, in the religious sense, many people are classified as Christians but in the true sense according to the bible, many of those people are not Christians.

And just to add that Jesus Christ did exist and that is fully proven historically. Even the Jewish history admits that he did exist as much as they reject him and don't believe he is the expected messiah, they never denied he existed. One big confusion though is the way the Catholic church and the roman empire treid to define Christianity as a religion. Many of you take that as your idea of Christianity and that is a completely false place to stand!

With reference to the bolded, could you provide proofs that this is true? And please do mot use the bible to prove that he existed.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Na wa for una o! If they finish building it within 6 months you will call the pastor a thief. Now it has taken 4 years, the man is also a thief what can be done to appease you? Or are you just jealous of oga pastor's wealth?[/quote]No oooo, its not 4yrs ooo. It has taken more than 12yrs. I was in my final yr in the University when the foundation was laid some 12 yrs ago.

Logic and Sauer, a round of applaause for both of you. Logic am honestly happy with the way you used empirical evidence to sustain your argument. Am impressed and you have given me more information to use in my numerous discussions with people who are trying hard to reconvert me. And as for Ijawkid who claimed you, Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are doing these altruistic works because they are made in the image of God. That then goes to show that some lions and tigers are made in the image of God too because I have seen from a documentary on Natgeo wild where a lion actually came to rescue an antelope calf who had lost its mother from Hyenas and have also see a baby monkey rescued by a leopard and taken to the top of a tree. Maybe God comes from a feline family. Oh my bad, he is actually the lion of Judah, well that explains it.
Thanks once again my brillian guys

ghostofsparta: You were on track until you started typing...'A moral atheist is...'
Religion is not and would never be a good thing. How has it kept people in check? Guyana Massacre! How does it keep people in check? Al-qaeda! KKK! If you still think it does then you would agree that it also capable of letting people go out of control. I know you might argue that those are people who've mis-interpreted it and its books..therefore religion is capable of mis-direction and instigation. It nurtures intolerance, fanaticism and extremism. What we have here in Yorubaland before imported religion is a way of life shaped after a unique belief system regulated by various checks and balances.

Whoever or whatever can make you believe absurdities will make you comit attrocities. Religion makes people believe absurdities hence the attrocities you cited above. The yoruba culture was a beautiful one until these two blood letting and money mongering belief systems crept into our communities. Now we look at our heritage with disgust because it doesnt conform to the western dictates. I have never heard Sango worshipers go to war with Ogun worshiper, neither have I heard Osun worshipers bicker with Oya adherent but what do we have today. For me I can marry anybody so long you allow me to live with my belief systems and you dont force my children to believe who or what they do not know.

IamPhantom: to whom it may concern above who asked what my guarantee is that my atheist husband would not cheat on me. Oh well,i don't know where that came from. Being an atheist is not guarantee that a person is good,just as a person being religious is not.

Inherent in that is part of my angst againt religious people. I do not need, nor have much respect for people who need τ̣̣ђё threat of hell or τ̣̣ђё promise of heaven to do what'ڪ right.

A moral atheist is a moral person indeed. His goodness is truly innate and of his/her own freewill. Religion is a good thing. It keeps people somewhat in check,i mean,imagine d world if people weren't afraid of an angry god staring wrathfully down at them. Yes,i like religion. Only,i do not need it to do what's right but let it stay because clearly,most people do.

Wether religion exists or not, good people will be good nd bad people will be bad. I know people who are very religious, even to the extent that they hold visible positions in churches yet they will sleep with anything under skirts. Havent we heard stories of MOGs who cheated on their wives? Jimmy Swagart was caught with a protitute, Francis Wale Oke impregnated his secretary, Vincent Odulele was jailed in the UK for being a pedophile. These are just a few cases out of several that go unheard. A moral person will be moral irrespective his/her beliefs are. There are several ladies who go to church/mosques regularly yet sleep arrd. Religion is not a guarantee that my wife will not cheat on me, repect and morality taught to her by her parents and her personal commitment to keeping vows are the things that will do the trick.

http://library.duke.edu/rubenstein/scriptorium/papyrus/texts/manuscripts.html
http://www.av1611.org/kjv/kjvhist.html

The above links chronicle how the KJV bible came into being. Its another article that shows the inerrancy Religious texts

that what atheism is about

nyameke: ok what evidence are you looking for and whats your definition of evidence. Will pose same question I asked logicboy " do you agree that disbelief in something does not necessarily make that something nonexistent ?

Yes, disbelief does not equate non existence and also belief does not bring into existence either. Atheists believe there is no God in the context of the features ascribed to it by religion and most especially the monotheistic religion. These religion paint a picture of an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-present, all-perfect and all-benevolent being who occupies somewhere in the sky. It is believed to have created all things but situations constantly get out of hand and it presses reset button to start all over again. There are so many other lofty attributes and features ascribed to this being that NEVER comes to bear when there is need for those attributes to be tested. So many phenomenon that were credited to be the actions of this being have been debunked by scientific simulations hence the popularity of this being plunges as science makes another breakthru.
I am dekung, and am an agnost

true2god: @ Op, please can u quote jesus' statements on this subject since u claim to be a xtain. I will rather believ in jesus claim dan dis link u provided. If truly u r a follower of christ and u dnt belive his doctrine and his stand on dis issue, den u r fake. do me a favor by quotin christ's own word on dis subject matter and stop accusin pple here and there.

Do you have a problem with reading, or you do no know the difference between posting a link and typing directly ones opinion. Have you read any of my personal opinions on this forum where I claimed to be a christian. I said I stumbled on the article on the internet and that a christian wrote it. Pls go back to high school and re learn comprehension otherwise STFU!

I stumbled on this on the internet and I felt it would be good to share with fellow nairalanders
It is a very long article so please be patient nand read on. The article was written by a christian(?)

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/jesusteachingonhell.html

Ayomivic: why would you say i should not use bible when i believe in bible ?You too can use your pagas book to prove yourself i don't care.

The breeze you are receiving, the rain that is falling, the shiny sun etc are evidence that God is alive. If God is not alive who are you?

Going by your assertions since there is the sun, rain, wind etc that means God is alive right? Good. Then since we see cars running arround our streets, it means henry ford is still alive. Since we have electricity all arround, it means Michael Faraday is alive. Because you are probably typing with an I phone, or MacBook or I-pad it then means Steve Jobs is still alive. Finally because you are alive it means your great great grand father is still alive. Hmmm!!! I like your logic. Ok ok let me cut you some slack, you can use your bible to prove God is alive. Be my guest but at the end of the day, it will still come down to flawed logic like the one you postulated above

Ayomivic: How is he a pagan deity? We are not worshiping a dead god. We are worshiping a living God. Pagans gods are deaf and dumb.

How can you prove that the god you worship is alive? Please use everyday examples, nothing biblical alright. Use example anyone can relate with. I said you should not use the bible because using it will be like the eveidence that Farouk Lawan did not collect $620,000 bribe can be found in the book his younger brother wrote. I believe you get my point. Prove the your god is alive by using independent provable examples. Prove you God is alive as against Zeus, Horus, Ra, Odin, Thor, Jupita, Venus......

@Jesoul,
Thank you very much for your response. while I agree with you that Davidylan has not posted for a while on this forun, it doesnt still remove the fact that the guy is unrpentantly insolent. While it may be true that he has apologised to you (I have NEVER come accross his apologies), he, like logicboy asserts, goes arround in a loop of insulting and appologising. His case would be like the case of a husband who assaults his wife then apologises then assaults then appologises then assualts then apologises......... I could go on forever. I know you try to be fair to all and maintain a somewhat matured approach to moderating the fact still remains you are more favourably disposed to Christian apologetics. I know some atheists here could be a pain in the neck but I would dare say a lot of them would rather attack the issue and not the person. I am an agnost and am proud of it (even tho I have loads of christian friends and associates) and I try veeeery hard not to insult people but some Christians here have succeded countless time in unleashing the insultive animal in me. I know religious people are very passionate about what they believe and may act violently towards people do not share in the belief system (I was like that too 8 years ago when I met the first atheist in my life) but we need to learn to be tolerant of one another. We need to understand that we were first of all human beigns before we chose what to believe and wether we like it or not, these belief system are alien to us all, even to the europeans who brought it to us. Now to the topic of discussion..... I do not think we need a separate section. Like I said earlier, even the Islamic section should be merged. Anyone who is too thin skinned to take the heat should not bother to come to Nairaland again. The brain behind Nairaland is an atheist this ten goes to say that NL is an atheist creation whatever is then done to accomodate religion should be seen as a gift and not a right. The OP wants a separate section because she is not comfortable with the way Oyedepo, Adeboye et al are being constantly bashed. This is understandable, however, Christ Embassy has yukoos so she can visit that site to enjoy fellowshi with her God. Again, Nairaland was created by an atheist, theists should either stay away or cope with whatever is posted on NL