₦airaland Forum

I wonder what toba hopes to gain from this. he and fellow christians av always found somthing wrong with Muslims talking of reverts to Islam. I hope he gets the same treatment on this thread.

his unwarranted responses -

toba:
What does this thread aim to achieve?

toba:
Man, i think u have a change troubling your soul. Which side of the divide do u belong to? Atheists have identity. As for u, i completely doubt your knowing your true personalty when it comes to belief&religious matter.
Try a rediscovery process.

toba:
I am a die hard bayern Munich fan since 1993 Franck Ribery got a Red card in the UCL semifinal for a bad tackle. I can imagine which religion taught him such wickedness.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-443892.0.html

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-538690.0.html

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-4069.0.html

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-658916.0.html

soloqy:
Very Very well said.

Besides, they said they had had problems in the past with Muslim students. Its a CHRISTIAN SCHOOL for crying out loud and that means they would have set times for bible reading and prayer vigils. What you would have is Muslim students doing their own thing while the other students are doing what the school was original started for. This would eventually lead to friction and chaos in the school.
There is no point in trying to sound politically correct like most of you here are doing. Its a Christan school and that's what they are created for and what they want to remain. Let Islamic organizations offer Muslims proper education and not just Islamic studies, and stuff like this wont occur.

its ok to av whatever business principle u wish. I av no problem wv not giving Muslims admission But that should be clearly stated in Jamb brochures. Students shouldnt av to waste a whole yr findn out which schl wld offer dem admission based on their religion,

I just hope pple like u wont come talking when an Islamic institution does same. Or were ppl not asking if the Islamic banks would employ them on religion basis or not?

baslone:


Why do you guys tell all these big lies against the northerners Just to prove a point!!!!!

me sef wonder oo. I wonder where they keep their conscience. and they say all Liars shall perish

nice. I hope they take to the advice

[quote author=tpia@ link=topic=771573.msg9254263#msg9254263 date=1317445969]afi be.



so you have no christians at all in your general extended family?

rather unusual.

or maybe you're just not aware of any.

i do know some yoruba muslims who dont interact with christians in any manner. Think most of them were from the oyo axis and a few from ogun.[/quote]The contact wasnt meant to be so general. I must have known christians around like the ones who owned shops that we bought things from. But without the word christian tagged to them.they were just other people. But when it comes to children of my age at the time, whom I could av interacted with to know of our differences, the ones in my Islamic school were the first. And seeing them as oyinbos was just to express ow we felt differently from them.

I only know of an aunt who became christian. I never spoke wv her and she only came to the family house at the death of her father, my grandpa.

I dont kno of Muslims deliberately keeping away from christians. How do they buy and sell if they wouldnt interact with others.

Q. 30
*what surah of the Quran talks about the dwellers of the cave

suratul kahf

*for how long were these ppl in the cave

309 years.

*what other stories are told in this surah


-the story of two men who own gardens (depicting a rich idolator and a poor Muslim)
-the story of Musa and Khidr
- the story of Dhul Qarnain (including Ya'juj and Ma'juj) 

*relate this surah with yaom al jum'ah(friday)

the prophet said, Whoever recites Surah Al-Kahf on Friday, it will illuminate him with light from one Friday to the next. 

olawalebab:
Let me try answer some
Suratul Kahf
Q18
100 years
Idir and Zuhl Qar'nain

u try small. especially considering that it took a long wyl to get any1 to answer the questions. I was hoping that my peeps here would go read the english meanings of the surah but unfortunately. . .

May Allah forgive him his sins. Am hearing this name for the first time. Can u tell us more about him and why he was killed?

I attended a Muslim Primary school and we used to av at least a christian at every time. No one ever forced them to pray. In fact we used to look at them like u wld look at Oyinbos, cos dey were just our first contact with christians.

where was that, i wonder.

My primary school is in Ibadan. It is one of the first Muslim private schools, apart from the likes of Ansarudeen that were taken up by the government from the missionaries. I grew up in a large family house and u can understand if my holidays were with Muslim friends too. In fact my holidays were at Islamic vacation courses. I didnt know christians and their ways at the time am describing except perhaps what I saw on TV.


very weird for yorubaland. Are you yoruba? Huh

yes, I am. I went to another primary school later on though, where I met christians and I tell u it was a weird moment, stating the awkward things might seem cos am Muslim.

while I was in secondary school. This school was purely business oriented and wasnt meant to favor a religion and they would sideline Muslim students when it came to appointing prefects

also weird.


where was this if you dont mind my asking.

This school is also in Ibadan. I wont like to mention the name. I still detest many of those teachers. I was very outspoken. I can remember asking one of them if he was being paid to preach or to teach us. U shldnt be surprised I wasnt made a prefect as against speculations nd I graduated with one of the best SSCE results.

some interestin gposts on ds thread

[quote author=Mr--Why link=topic=525935.msg9249935#msg9249935 date=1317383545]Use complete words instead of abbreviations. These are the kinds of Lecturers we got advertising Admission scheme. This is one of the reasons our educational system is very unproductive.

You just sound like one of those who are in the system for the money and not the passion of imparting knowledge to the students. I wonder how you got your 'PHD' title Dr.Lecturer.[/quote]u might just av sent others away by those comments

so i heard some peeps saying Muslims would av done same   I attended a Muslim Primary school and we used to av at least a christian at every time. No one ever forced them to pray. In fact we used to look at them like u wld look at Oyinbos, cos dey were just our first contact with christians.

[size=25pt]Forget the extrimist boko harams and their likes, An average Muslim is much more tolerant than an average Christian.[/size] Christian teachers would not complete their teachings without preaching while I was in secondary school. This school was purely business oriented and wasnt meant to favor a religion and they would sideline Muslim students when it came to appointing prefects.

@ uplawal, I looked out for the tafsir to the verse u quoted. Ch 4:119. this is what I found and I hope every1 finds it helpful. I wonder if you believe in ahadith though cos dat might affect your judgement.

It is as follows-  quite long. but i highlighted the most important to our discussion even though reading it all would help your understanding of the verse.


a.translation

إِنَّ اللَّهَ لاَ يَغْفِرُ أَن يُشْرَكَ بِهِ وَيَغْفِرُ مَا دُونَ ذلِكَ لِمَن يَشَآءُ

4:116 Verily, Allah forgives not (the sin of) setting up partners (in worship) with Him, but He forgives whom He wills, sins other than that,

وَمَن يُشْرِكْ بِاللَّهِ فَقَدْ ضَلَّ ضَلَـلاً بَعِيداً

and whoever sets up partners in worship with Allah, has indeed strayed far away.

إِن يَدْعُونَ مِن دُونِهِ إِلاَّ إِنَـثاً وَإِن يَدْعُونَ إِلاَّ شَيْطَـناً مَّرِيداً

4:117 They invoke nothing but female deities besides Him (Allah), and they invoke nothing but Shaytan, a persistent rebel!

لَّعَنَهُ اللَّهُ

4:118 Allah cursed him.

وَقَالَ لاّتَّخِذَنَّ مِنْ عِبَادِكَ نَصِيباً مَّفْرُوضاً

And he (Shaytan) said: "I will take an appointed portion of your servants."

وَلأضِلَّنَّهُمْ وَلأُمَنِّيَنَّهُمْ وَلاّمُرَنَّهُمْ فَلَيُبَتِّكُنَّ ءَاذَانَ الاٌّنْعَـمِ وَلاّمُرَنَّهُمْ فَلَيُغَيِّرُنَّ خَلْقَ اللَّهِ

4:119 "Verily, I will mislead them, and surely, I will arouse in them false desires; and certainly, I will order them to slit the ears of cattle, and indeed I will order them to change the nature created by Allah.''

وَمَن يَتَّخِذِ الشَّيْطَـنَ وَلِيّاً مِّن دُونِ اللَّهِ فَقَدْ خَسِرَ خُسْرَاناً مُّبِيناً

And whoever takes Shaytan as a Wali instead of Allah, has surely suffered a manifest loss.

يَعِدُهُمْ وَيُمَنِّيهِمْ وَمَا يَعِدُهُمْ الشَّيْطَـنُ إِلاَّ غُرُوراً

4:120 He (Shaytan) makes promises to them, and arouses in them false desires; and Shaytan's promises are nothing but deceptions.

أُوْلَـئِكَ مَأْوَاهُمْ جَهَنَّمُ وَلاَ يَجِدُونَ عَنْهَا مَحِيصاً

4:121 The dwelling of such (people) is Hell, and they will find no way of escape from it.

وَالَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ وَعَمِلُواْ الصَّـلِحَـتِ سَنُدْخِلُهُمْ جَنَّـتٍ تَجْرِى مِن تَحْتِهَا الاٌّنْهَـرُ خَـلِدِينَ فِيهَآ أَبَداً

4:122 And those who believe and do righteous good deeds, We shall admit them to the Gardens under which rivers flow (i.e. in Paradise) to dwell therein forever.

وَعْدَ اللَّهِ حَقّاً وَمَنْ أَصْدَقُ مِنَ اللَّهِ قِيلاً

Allah's promise is the truth; and whose words can be truer than those of Allah!

b.tafsir- (interpretation)

Shirk Shall not be Forgiven, in Reality the Idolators Worship Shaytan

We talked about Allah's statement,

إِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يَغْفِرُ أَن يُشْرَكَ بِهِ وَيَغْفِرُ مَا دُونَ ذَلِكَ لِمَن يَشَاء ,

Verily, Allah forgives not (the sin of) setting up partners (in worship) with Him, but He forgives whom He wills, sins other than that,

before (Ayah 48) and mentioned the relevant Hadiths in the beginning of this Surah.

Allah's statement,

,  وَمَن يُشْرِكْ بِاللّهِ فَقَدْ ضَلَّ ضَلاَلاً بَعِيدًا ﴿١١٦﴾

and whoever sets up partners in worship with Allah, has indeed strayed far away.

means, he will have taken other than the true path, deviated from guidance and righteousness, destroyed himself in this life and the Hereafter, and lost contentment in this life and the Hereafter.

إِن يَدْعُونَ مِن دُونِهِ إِلاَّ إِنَاثًا ,

They invoke nothing but female deities besides Him (Allah),

Juwaybir said that Ad-Dahhak said about Allah's statement,

"The idolators claimed that the angels are Allah's daughters, saying, `We only worship them so that they bring us closer to Allah.'

So they took the angels as gods, made the shapes of girls and decided, `These (idols) resemble the daughters of Allah (i.e., the angels), Whom we worship.'''

This is similar to Allah's statements,

أَفَرَءَيْتُمُ اللَّـتَ وَالْعُزَّى

Have you then considered Al-Lat and Al-`Uzza! (53:19)

وَجَعَلُواْ الْمَلَـئِكَةَ الَّذِينَ هُمْ عِبَادُ الرَّحْمَـنِ إِنَـثاً

And they make the angels who themselves are servants of the Most Gracious (Allah) females. (43:19)

and,

وَجَعَلُواْ بَيْنَهُ وَبَيْنَ الْجِنَّةِ نَسَباً

And they have invented a kinship between Him and the Jinn. (37:158)

Allah's statement,

,  وَإِن يَدْعُونَ إِلاَّ شَيْطَانًا مَّرِيدًا ﴿١١٧﴾

and they invoke nothing but Shaytan, a persistent rebel!

means, Shaytan has commanded them to do this and made it seem fair and beautiful in their eyes. Consequently, they are worshipping Shaytan in reality, just as Allah said in another Ayah,

أَلَمْ أَعْهَدْ إِلَيْكُمْ يبَنِى ءَادَمَ أَن لاَّ تَعْبُدُواْ الشَّيطَـنَ

Did I not command you, O Children of Adam, that you should not worship Shaytan. (36:60)

Allah said that, on the Day of Resurrection, the angels shall proclaim about the idolators who worshipped them in this life:

بَلْ كَانُواْ يَعْبُدُونَ الْجِنَّ أَكْـثَرُهُم بِهِم مُّؤْمِنُونَ

Nay, but they used to worship the Jinn; most of them were believers in them. (34:41)

Allah's statement,

لَّعَنَهُ اللّهُ ,

Allah cursed him,

means, He expelled him and banished him from His mercy and His grace.

,  وَقَالَ لَأَتَّخِذَنَّ مِنْ عِبَادِكَ نَصِيبًا مَّفْرُوضًا ﴿١١٨﴾

And he (Shaytan) said: "I will take an appointed portion of your servants"

means, a fixed and known share.

Muqatil bin Hayyan commented,

"From every one thousand, nine hundred and ninety-nine will go to the Fire and one to Paradise.''

وَلأُضِلَّنَّهُمْ ,

Verily, I will mislead them,

from the true path,

,  وَلأُمَنِّيَنَّهُمْ ,

and surely, I will arouse in them false desires;

tempting them to feign repentance, arousing false hopes in them, encouraging them to delay and procrastinate with righteous deeds, deceiving them.

,  وَلآمُرَنَّهُمْ فَلَيُبَتِّكُنَّ آذَانَ الأَنْعَامِ ,

and certainly, I will order them to slit the ears of cattle,

Qatadah and As-Suddi stated,

meaning, slitting their ears to designate them as Bahirah, Sa'ibah, and a Wasilah.

,  وَلآمُرَنَّهُمْ فَلَيُغَيِّرُنَّ خَلْقَ اللّهِ ,

And indeed I will order them to change the nature created by Allah.

According to Al-Hasan bin Abi Al-Hasan Al-Basri,

means tattooing.

In his Sahih, Muslim recorded the prohibition of tattooing the face, which in one of its wordings states:

"May Allah curse whoever does this.''

It is also recorded in the Sahih that Ibn Mas`ud said,

"May Allah curse those who have tattoos and those who do it, who pluck their (facial) hairs and the one who does it for them, and those who make spaces between their teeth for the purpose of beauty, changing what Allah has created.''

He then said,

"Why should not I curse whom the Messenger of Allah has cursed, when the Book of Allah commands it,'' referring to the Ayah,

وَمَآ ءَاتَـكُمُ الرَّسُولُ فَخُذُوهُ وَمَا نَهَـكُمْ عَنْهُ فَانتَهُواْ

And whatsoever the Messenger gives you, take it; and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it). (59:7)

Allah's statement,

,  وَمَن يَتَّخِذِ الشَّيْطَانَ وَلِيًّا مِّن دُونِ اللّهِ فَقَدْ خَسِرَ خُسْرَانًا مُّبِينًا ﴿١١٩﴾

And whoever takes Shaytan as a Wali (protector or helper) instead of Allah, has surely suffered a manifest loss.

means, he will have lost this life and the Hereafter.

Indeed, this is a type of loss that cannot be compensated or restored.

!t is normal for someone else to do the updates for him. But it wuldnt sound as a fraud if no personalisation is involved. Such words as I or We could be exchanged for 'the president. . . At least, that is what happens on Mitchelle Obama's wall.

hmmn. I agree with the above

What did Kolapo Ishola achieve as d state governor

why now Ajimobi why

is there a bigger or even equal hypocrite but the hypocrite person who reads the Pauline verse in Corinthians, above, and concluded that Paul was saying women covering head is not referring to the hair on the head?

what use is the word 'shaven' therefore if the head [full of hair, long or short] is not covered? to allude to hair in any other part of the body except the head, is truly a deceitful tactics. if Paul meant hair on the legs, why advise that head be covered? shouldn't be hosiery or leg warmers be appropriate?

for a person who has never seen a thing acceptable from Islam, to accuse anyone of being anti Christianity you may have to label yourself a greater bigot.

here is what Paul said about himself and you may still have to wonder why Islam is critical about his statement;

Paul admitted he is a liar in 1 Corinthians chapter 9 verses 19-22:

19For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. 20And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

davidylan:
Of course the facts are quite clear . . . a lot of what passes for muslim dressing is obeisance to arab culture and has little or nothing to do with "modesty". Why is a Nigerian man wearing a turban in the equatorial heat? Does that make any sense to you?

that's quite dumb. You cant be writing your "understanding" a verse that you can neither cite nor properly defend. 1 Cor 11: 5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. 6For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

That verse is QUITE CLEAR that it is refering to a woman having her HEAD covered not her hair like you dishonestly claim in your message.

Now what is the required covering for a woman's HEAD? 15 But if a woman have[b] long hair[/b], it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. A woman is given long hair (explicitly mentioned in verse 14) as a COVERING for her HEAD . . . she does not need an extra material covering as long as she maintains her long hair. Should she decide to wear an additional covering then that is her own perogative.

Perhaps you should understand what you quote before making a fool of yourself. We are not talking of the quran here.

I wonder if you can reason at all . . . many of you claim that terrorists have only "hijacked" islam . . . YET have no problems using the unchristian actions of a few to denigrate the entire christian faith.

I'd expect someone wise enoff to use a PC or whatever u use  to be civil enoff to argue constructively without resulting to insults. I wonder what morals u av to teach your children if ds is d only way u can communicate wv a face u cant c.

Now u want me to believe dat d 1st verse says to cover your  head(nd not your hair) but if u cant, to shun it or leave it bald. if it doesnt mean your hair, it must mean your scalp(dat u'r covering) nd d oda option refers again to leaving it bald(which means exposing your scalp). Think!, u need dat Man.

Actually, it doesnt bother me much wat d bible has to say. I av a complete jurisdiction in d Qur'an nd d hadith.


U'r d biggest bigot av seen here and a complete hypocrite. Do u mean it bothers u dat d actions of a few xtians are used in painting your religion when u only look for the flimsiest xcuse to call Muslims terrorists. On this thread, this is my last wv u. Keep up wv wat u'r doin. some1 must be proud 

[quote author=tpia@ link=topic=708153.msg9238760#msg9238760 date=1317233388]I asked u to google what happens in case of a spinster because I have realised that many of u non-Muslims copy and paste info from the internet and then come here to use them against Muslims


not sure who or what you're referring to here.
what did i use against muslims.

was speaking generally of what happens here on NL concerning the copy and paste[/quote]

sister shouldnt delay too much if she really likes d guy oo. but she can play hard to get a lil bit

davidylan:
I've been here since 2005 (3 extra years to have amassed more posts than you), enough time to note that most of the muslims here prefer to respond to christian topics than bother themselves with what the quran has to say.

there is no point arguing wv u. For if the obvious were placed in front of u, u wld still argue once it does not conform wv ur belief. are u saying u made d extra over 26000 posts within three yrs??

davidylan:
Because christianity is of the heart not a plethora of empty moral codes. Read the bible, it clearly describes hair as a COVERING to a woman. A woman can choose to let her hair be a covering or use an actual material covering. The ultimate is the state of her heart, if it isnt right then her prayer is as useless even if she used 92 head ties.
Yes Islam purports to describe "moderate" dressing but a cursory look tells you its more an allegiance to Arab culture than it is moderation in dressing.

NB: i just read your "location"message.
1. Its absolute hypocrisy reading muslims constantly bleating about what the "corrupt" bible has to say.
2. The bible says a woman is to cover her HEAD not her hair . . . and that her HAIR is given to her as a covering. When next you want to flippantly quote the bible the least you could do is have an idea what you are quoting.

@ bolded, if dats wat u want to believe and all d arguments u'v had over d yrs avnt changed ur perception of dat, wat else can i say, But, SUIT YOURSELF.

Now, about my location message, I'd appreciate if u can quote d verse i was trying to. I wrote my understanding of it and nothing more. So, if the hair was to be d covering y d use of scarves?? and y wld toba not allow his xtian church members leave their hair open in church. nd y would dat verse recommend d cutting of the hair when what is to be covered itself is d scalp.

One of the many reasons xtianity can never be it to me is their claim of everythn being in their hearts. Shouldnt what u av concealed in ur heart reflect in ur actions?? xtianity has played a big part in d moral decadence of the Nigerian society.

uplawal:
Sister Deols,Allah dnt say we should not till the ground,Allah encourage farming,infact he encourages us having shelter on our heads,check the Quran as Allah permits us,as long as you dnt change the soil into something else, its fine,as av said earlier,its either you obey or you suit yourself.

As for the piercing,its not everybody that pierce,some muslims dnt pierce and some muslims too dnt circumcised,cos they believe it to be alteration of Allah's creation,cos they will argue with you with the verse that says,Allah created us perfectly,that theres no flaws in his creation,except the majority that believed they have to do the tradition of the prophet or where did you see it in the Quran that Allah says Abraham the one that starts the islamic rites did circumcised himself,as far as i know,circumcision was not part of the rites prophet Abraham did as mentioned in the Quran.

so is it wrong to follow the traditions of the prophet

uplawal:
@tpia,Secondly,you dnt tell us what is ok,except you are one of us,and even if you are one of us,whatever you say has to go inaccordance with the words  of Allah and his last prophet(Muhammadu pbuh).

Braids is not acceptable for muslims,only your own natural hair,no fake beauty in islam such as using bleaching cream,painting nails(except if the person has to wipe it before  ablution/prayers,fixing false nails,all types of cosmetic surgery,except if life is in danger.
Once again,am sorry i dnt mean to be rude.

i think u shld know dat braids doesnt mean the use of attachments. u can braid(plait) with ur own hair.

[quote author=tpia@ link=topic=708153.msg9232775#msg9232775 date=1317156843]conservative muslim ladies [at least in nigeria] dont perm their hair, as far as i know.

i dont think perming or not perming is meant to indicate spirituality per se, but it might be difficult to have natural hair if you're overseas.

for oyibos/arabs/non-blacks, its easier for them since all they have to do is use a hair clip but for the rest of us, our hair needs more attention.


braids should be ok though.[/quote]do u av an Islamic background. *just curious*

I must say here that when I was young, i thot relaxing d hair is haram. In fact, I wasnt alone cos I can remember the christian children around joined us in seeing make up as bad. This was due to one thing- Ignorance.

I av learnt later on, that Islam is all about knowledge and until otherwise proven, everything is halal. The same reason I asked uplawal for proofs.

I asked u to google what happens in case of a spinster because I have realised that many of u non-Muslims copy and paste info from the internet and then come here to use them against Muslims not forgetinng that the people who posted those stuffs there could av bn ignorant Muslims or the enemies of Islam whose main aim is to give d wrong representation of Islam.

How come it is allowed to be relaxed for a husband but not oneself.

uplawal:
@Sister deols,am not here to fight you, as its inappriopriate for muslims to fight eachother,let alone believers,the point is what you said about the sheikh was really an insult if you dnt know,how can a muslim say "she would rather read novel rather than to listen to a well respected sheikh,its an insult,and in islam respect and honour is important to elders, so if you have to talk about reformation pls reform yourself on this issue first and dnt name anybody unreformed islamically,and dnt think every xtian outhere were sinners or reverts were sinners before coming to Islam,they might be better than you,the only way you may better that them is you worship Allah as hes supposed to be worshipped and you and you stay away from what he prohibitted,and you do what he approves.

I aGree we shldnt fight .

I did not insult the man, I just av my preferences and my novels come before his preachings.

[quote author=tpia@ link=topic=708153.msg9232744#msg9232744 date=1317156343]^^my post was a general one.

for single girls, well, i guess not if you're conservative, going by what i've seen personally?

either that or you still cover the hair after perming.[/quote]seen personally?? where??

every one gets to cover it anyway except with their mahram.

[quote author=tpia@ link=topic=708153.msg9232598#msg9232598 date=1317154720]seems you can perm it for your husband?

i googled the topic.[/quote]am not married. so am not allowed help google that too.

davidylan:
Example - Weekly Study Of The Noble Quraan "tafseer Ibn Katheer” Vs 1-10 Chap. 4

0 responses and only 6 views.

Yeah they are surely "looking, listening and learning".
If [b]muslims have no knowledge of their religion [/b]then i wonder.

believe me, i can quote myself over and over again. av bn on ds forum since 2008 and despite ur several bans, u av much more posts than I do. I rather look, listen and learn.

Before making ur assertions, dd u bother to consider the general population of Muslims on this forum?? did u care to c if a higher percentage of Muslims come here as opposed to d christian section??

and d bold seems to be a line u love. I can remember once replying u on same sometime ago nd am still saying that the yoruba proverb, ati kekere ni musulumi tii ko omo e lesin says it all. Obviously more needs to b done in educating Muslims nd am not bigoted enoff to say we know it all.

[quote author=tpia@ link=topic=769033.msg9232490#msg9232490 date=1317153767]really? [/quote]nd dat makes some1 happy

toba:
i dont know why u are taking this matter to this level of comparison. im telling u that what these ladies do are sometimes not sin cos of dressing funky. provided they dont go Unclad or showing parts that are supposed to be revealed to only their husbands. its still part of the moderation i talked about about.

still u are judging from a non-muslim's point of view. Imagine dat u'r a Muslim and u follow d tenets of Islam, would u say d same thing u'r saying.

ds i can tell u again from a sociologist's view. An example was given of some African Americans who stood early in the morning outside of their homes. Anyone passing by, who never lived in the neighbourhood would call them jobless and would detest them for 'lazily' standing by early in the morning while they should be working without realising(as explained by the author) that they av spent the night working. Now, u need to always put urself in d shoes of others to really understand their thought process and to b able to tolerate them.

davidylan:
that's the problem with islam . . . its all about empty codes. If you think christianity doesnt discuss modest dressing as befits one who calls him/herself a child of God then you really havent read the bible at all. Faith is a matter of the heart not a list of rules.

now, u'll find an answer to this in my previous post.

this is a big blunder and it still shows u ve got little knowledge about xtianity hence u choose what u feel like believing and not necessarily facts. xtianity isnt a forceful religion. everything believrs needs to know and do to make heaven are well spelt out in our bible. its in the bible that women are told to cover their hair as against men whose hair are enough as cover. the bible says we should dress moderately. what does moderation mean to u? its very erroneous for your to claim that the bible doesnt prescribe dress code. ok? we are charged to live like christ. dressing moderatel doesnt mean we shd dress like old school understand what?

oh, wat i mean by dress code isnt d general term, moderate. I bet most religions would promote moderate dressing. Am talking in terms of actually describing wat moderate means. Yh! i know of the covering of the head b4 prayers as a xtian thing. But most funky churches dont even make it a requirement any more.

i just made myself very clear to u with my submission above. thats exactly what im saying that we need to open up to other ideas provided we are not going to sin against God. i dont think dressing funky is a sin against God

but in Islam, it is. and dat is wat I want u to understand.

its a big anormally to be guided by one dogma all the time. religions are indoctrination of dogmas tha can be misleading especially when obeyed ignorantly. eg religious fanatics arent doing ant good to islam but bad. we must learn to start thing outside the box once in a while abeg. religion is not my own manual and its not good for it to be anyones manual. then it wouldnt make anysense. we go to school to learn and not to learn religion but what would make us great and useful to the society at large

I hope i know a better way of presenting it. This is still about us having different beliefs. Islam is a way of life nd if u decide dat following its principles d way it shld be means dogmatism, then so be it.But I am to be smart enough to actually be following the right things and not hearsays.

i havent made any assumption about islam, im simply telling u the obvious from what isee of muslims i know  what does this mean? do u cover your hair in school? do u cover your hair whilst walking on the street? do u cover your hair in the plane? if the ans are yes, what else do u want me to believe?

dats exactly wat I mean. U are telling me wat u see and not what it has to be. There are corrupt people in Nigeria and we see them everyday doesnt mean it is d ideal way. I may not cover my hair in skl if everyone in my skl is female.thats wat am talking about.

davidylan:
perhaps because most muslims are genuinely ignorant of their religion and have nothing to contribute?

well, i think most would rather look, listen and learn!- isnt dat some form of modesty?? it is better than making assertions on something you have no knowledge of.

AbuHanifa:
@deols. I only said that base on my own sincere observation. I observed it when I went through comments on toba's interview on another thread. Even with a penultimate post. I really appreciate your contributions always even if no one comments, u usually wade in with lots of sensible contributions. Sweetnecter is also another person which I know must have genuine reason. I really want to see all of those that contributed on the 2 posts I cited above to come in always and make this section flow. Had it been for sweetnecter and others, islam for muslim section would have gone bland. Peace be unto u

thanks for the appreciation