₦airaland Forum

This arguement has been on in Christiandom for long.

While some believe in the strict adherance of Jesus' teachings:

Mathew 28:19- "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them[b] in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost..."  [/b]

Others rather follow in the steps  of the early apostles who baptised people in the  name of Jesus.

Acts 19:5 - When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus

Acts 2:38 - Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you[i] in the name of Jesus Christ[/i] for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.   


While there is so much contention about this even leading to the division of some denominations, i find no problem with the topic.

In my opinion, neither of the two Schools of  thought is wrong and  this is my arguement:

The father, Son and Holy spirit all answer to the name of Jesus. Notice it did not say "in the name(s)  of the father and of  the son  and of the Holy Ghost..." but it said, " in the name(singular) of the father ..."

The name of the father is Jesus; the name of the son is Jesus; the name of the Holy ghost is Jesus. The all answer to that all powerful name.

Colossians 2:9 - For in him (Jesus) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.


Phil. 2:9 -

"Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:  That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;  And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."


What's your opinion on this?

Thanx G.Peter for your response.

However i did not  get  your point here:

"In the old testament, holy spirit did not abide the people of God.
He comes, uses you and then leave."

I believe that as well. I did not say that Melchisadech had the Holy Spirit abiding in Him. He was actually a manifestaion of the Holy Spirit Himself. What i am saying really is that there are certain manifestaions of God  in the Old testament scriptures that  could not be said to be manifestaions of the father himself as He  never leaves His throne; or the son; since at that time He existed as the Word of the father and not yet a seperate entity from the father.

Those manifestaions  could most comfortably be attributed to  the Holy spirit who according to the scriptures is the Angel of God's presence ( Isaiah 63:9-10).  He is the messenger of God's  presence...the one who takes the presence of the father and of Jesus from place to place; to wherever that presence is needed. The Holy spirit is described as  that which proceeds from the father:

John 15:26 - "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even[i] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father[/i], he shall testify of me"

...He comes out of the  father.

Many times as in the case of Moses before The Angel in the burning bush, when the bible uses the term The Angel of the Lord, we  should be careful 'because it could be refering  to the Angel of His presence, the Holy Spirit.

Likewise, the man who stood before Josuah, with his sword  drawn...who cammanded Josuah to take of His shoes and who introduced Himself as  the captain of the Lord's host was  the Holy spirit of God.

He manifested himself many times, sometimes as a man, in the old testament.

Sometimes people see visons of Jesus... or they may experience some manifestaion of God. It is the Holy spirit  that  makes such  visions and manifestaions  possible. He brings the presence of God and of the Lord Jesus to us.

Jesus is in heaven  but the Holy spirit brings the presence of Jesus to us and puts that presence in us. But the three persons are one and the same God. Halleluyah!

G. Peter,

I would have agreed fully with you, but these are my reservations:

I believe that Jesus was never a seperate entity from the father until He was born in Bethlehem. He existed as the Word of the father. The one refered to as the voice of God walking in the garden:

Gen 3:8 -"And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day..."

John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. " 

He was the very Word of the father that became (tabernacled in) flesh:

John 1:14-" And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth..."


The reason Melchisadech is seen to have the same attributes with Jesus is that He is the Holy Spirit personified.

Jesus, refering to the Holy Ghost said," And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive because it seeth Him not..." (Jn 14:16,17)

There are two greek words used for the word 'another'. The first is: 'allous' translated as another of exactly the same kind and the second is 'hetteros' translated another of a different kind. What jesus actually said in the scriptures is : He shall give you 'allous paracletous'. Another of exactly the same kind in look and quality.

That is why the one in the fire with the three hebrew kids was said to look like the son of God.

The same word that created the whole universe is the same Word that formed Jesus. That is why his life is divine. He had always been in the bossom of the father until His Birth. That is why there was so much joy among the angels of heaven at His birth. They had seen the Word of the father which they had known for long now tabernacled in human flesh, a seperate entity, for the first time.

The Word which was recieved by Mary, working with the Holy spirit that came upon her brought about Jesus.

The bible called Melchisadech the KING OF PEACE and not the PRINCE OF PEACE.

Jesus did not say,"before Abraham i was". He said,"before Abraham I AM"

Refering to the Introduction of God to moses:

Exodus 3:14 - "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."


That is the reason they pickd up stones to stone Him; He was saying, " I am God" !

They will have just laughed at Him and called Him a mad man if all He was saying was that He was alive as a man before Abraham.

Besides, Jesus existed before the world began as the Word of the father.

yeah...lets go by n by.

What a sad story u just told. I hope you know if that was a church, Jesus was there. I also hope you met with him and didnt spend all ur time looking at the ladies.

You spoke well.

I am aware of that fact Layi. You know an outsider cannot trouble the church. It takes an insider to do so. That is why anyone who wants to cause trouble will have to pretend to be Christain and to know God. These are more dangerous than those who are frankly non-christain. But i have actually calmed down you know.

I also say 'AMEN' to your prayer.

Thank you for your post.

I think our opinions are the same.

The Holy Spirit however, is the third person of the God head and not the second as you had said. This is because He is the third to be revealed to the church, after God the father and Jesus the son.

Nevertheless, He is the first to be revealed by the Holy scriptures in the book of Genesis 1:2. He is co-equal with God the father and does not need to recieve power from God for He is the power of God.

Allonym,

The pastor recieves tithes not because they are for Him to consume but because He is a representative or priest of  Christ to whom these tithes are actually paid.

They are not for personal use but for the Lord. Melchisadech recieved tithes from Abraham, not because He was a poor man seeking a means of survival but because he was a priest and representative of God.

Lastly. Paying tithes is a covenant principle of God for his people and not just a way of raising fund for the pastor or church as many believe. It is a faith principle.

Tithing is a covenant principle of God for His people, Isrealites and non-Isrealites. Abraham tithed before the law commanded the Isrealites to do so. He did so as a man of faith in covenant with God almighty.

Hebrews 7:1-4

For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God,  who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;  To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.  Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

I studied about this man a few months after i gave my heart to christ. I was asked to do this study as an assignment in my foundation school. I tell you, it will refresh you to understand who he is and the significance of your discovery will amaze you.

From what i got, He was no ordinary man. He had no father or mother nor was he from any natural descent. He had no beginnig  or end of life.

Most shocking is the fact that he was called,'King of Peace' whereas Jesus was refered to in the scriptures as the 'Prince of Peace'. (Isiah 9:6).

Well, let me give you some more clues that i got:

Matthew 1:18 - "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost."   

Acts 13:33 - "God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. "


Revelation 1:5 - "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead... "

Rom  8:11- "[i]But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the d[/i]ead dwell in you..."

My discovery gave me explanations as to who the forth man in the fire with shadrach, Meshach and Abednego was (Daniel 3:25); who the man Jacob wrestled with was (Gen 32:24); who the scriptures refered to as the Lord among the visitors that visited Abraham at his home (Gen 18); and who the scriptures refered to as the Angel of His Presence in Isaiah 63:9-10.

I think you can now deduce from the above clues, what my conclusion is  ...What is yours?

I will be with the Lord when i leave this earth and i will come back in glory to reign with Him on the earth.

Seun, God forbid!!!

I have over the years watched the Church being mocked at, its ministers being slandered by the media, non-christains and christains alike and i have wondered if there are still those who can see the hand of God in and among His people doing His work of Building His Church and preparing her as a bride without spot or wrinkle for the  return of the master and groom, Jesus Christ.

I have however, come to the conclusion that whatever the case may be, if no one will praise the Lord for His wonderous works, and if all that men can see are the evil manipulations of the wicked, i will still voice His praise and declare His wondrous works. Rather than announce and magnify the works of the devil, i will sing of His goodness in the land of the living!

Psalms 96:3 - Declare his glory among the nations, his marvelous works among all the peoples!   

I have seen that though they say Christians are divided, we are one afterall; washed in the same blood, born of one Spirit and with one baptism.

The differences in beliefs as well as interpretation of scripture are beginning to fade away as revelation and understanding of the message increases even as the Spirit of God breathes upon the hearts of men, giving them understanding.

There is now little or no difference between the Catholics, Anglicans, Baptists, Penticostals, Charismatics, Evangelicals etc. The Holy Spirit is falling upon each and every one of these groups in a new and Special way imparting spiritual gifts to many and causing the miraculous to abound even as there is greater recognition of the authority of the Word as contained in the Bible.

I read in the papers recently where an Anglican minister was interviewed after a recent convention of the Church. He described with amazement how many recieved the Holy Spirit and spoke with other tongues. In his own words,"I thought this was only for the penticostals." There were also testimonies of salvation and healings and miracles.

I also watched some time ago during a crusade with Dr. Benny Hinn in the United States, as hundreds of catholic revernd sisters and reverend fathers attended, lifting up Holy hands in worship as they recieved of the precious annointing of the blessed Holy Spirit of God.

This is in fulfilment of the Prophecy of Joel:

Joel 2:28 - "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions "

The Lord is doing a quick work in our day and think this is worthy of praise!!

I understand that circumstances may force the couple to live together even without any offence intended. But you know, it is always wise to play safe. They should try as much as possible to avoid the guilt and regret of falling into temtation.

1 Thessalonians 5:22 - Abstain from all appearance of evil.  

I have come again with my scripture quotations abi?

hmmmmmm

I sing contemporary gospel music. But i also love Hymns. I do not think i could ever do away with them. They are usually full of so much meaning and a lot of inspiration.

...and that led you into occultic beliefs. I do not have a probable if you let everyone on this site know who you are adn what you stand for. You are not more intelligent than the billions who have accepted this gospel around the world.



My God resists the proud and gives grace and supernatural wisdom to the humble.

You know what, when i first met HND, even though i had not seen him, i knew he was not a believer in jesus (though he pretended to be one).

I knew that a true child of God will not speak carelesssly about sacred things. HND spoke against Gods ministers who walked in the miraculous as occultic, whereas he was occultic. He Spoke against tithing, the acknowledging of Jesus as the only way and many other foundamental doctrines of Christainity.

I knew who he was and i told him openly even though he tried to dudge.

There is little wonder as to why God's ministers who preach the message of prosperity and healing are the most prone to attacks from the devil.

Those who perform miracles prove the authensity of our message thereby silencing the sceptics and those who are properous can publish this news all over the world through the internet, media, books, tapes, crusades etc. to the glory of God and the shame of the devil. There is not any of those questions i cant answer... but I told you that the only responsibility i have towards you is to pray for you.

The Church is Increasing in strength and influence and there's nothing the devil, the antichrist, nor his spokesmen can do about it!

What kind of Nonsense is this?

Mr Seun, is there no way you can check the topics that are being put up for discussion?
It is like the latest trend now is  people coming up with insults for the church, its ministers or our nation. Please we have heard enough of this kind of talk.

Do you need to wait for a  reporter from outide Nigeria to tell you what going on in your country?

The bible tells us that to the pure in heart, all things are pure. When all you can see is evil and greed and corruption and witchcraft, the problem is with you and not with the church or our country!

How many posts have we seen here, in praise of some good thing in the church or in our country?

Let me quote you,

"If you doubt me ask yourself a simple question "when was the last time i prayed for world peace, or for Nigeria or for the less privileged we see everyday on our streets." Then you will know what problem we Nigerians have. They have even extended it abroad!"

You or your church may not be involved in praying for your country but let me tell you, you are on your own in this matter. Throughout the month of October our entire ministry was involved in praying and fasting daily for our nation and even held all night prayer services for our country.

On 21st and 22nd of October we spent several hours praying for our nation and its leaders during the National youth conference. We lifted our country up and encouraged the young people to believe in themselves, their nation and their future.

You say, "My wish is that EFCC would someday investigate all the Pentecostal churches and their pastors accounts cus they are really ripping us off.  What do you guys think?"

This is complete nonsense! Did those who gave money say they gave the pastor, or God? Greed is your problem. Even if they are ripping people off, you are not involved so there is no need for the 'us' . Your kind never give more than 20 naira in church so it is not your money that is making pastors rich!

Do you know what the churches are doing for the nation? Our ministry runs an inner-city mission school where several children are taken off the streets, fed, clothed and given free education and housing. Prostitutes and drug addicts are taken off the streets and rehabilitatted through this inner city mission. Many are given money to start businesses. Their lives are given new meaning.

"Don't get me wrong I do believe in God and I'm a Christian"

You are not a Christain if you enjoy bringing disgrace to the Name of the Lord.

Please, rather than say what is wrong about our nation, let us see you do something about it...let us see you lift somone up so that we will not think that all you have are mere words.

It is very easy to criticize and destroy, anyone can do that...but not many are builders!

Oh Nigerians, when will you learn to lift your nation up?!

Yes i do and i love the program, with its very touching stories.

You are the one that brought the creation and flood issues, why throw them on me now. Go dig up your contradictions on the flood and creation stories i am waiting.

Man, i do not have only assertions. I have the living, everpowerful Spirit of God living in and working through me as my evidence. He manifests his presence in the miracles we see daily in our lives, which you do not see because you do not believe.

Both of you are one of a kind... confused and in search of truth. All that your big grammer will be heard by fellow sense-ruled men like yourslves. But they cannot stand the wisdom of God. They  cannot help you pass the exam of life because life itself is spiritual.

HND,

Let me advice you because the kingdom of God has advanced far beyond what you could ever imagine. Dont try to rub your unbelief on me bc i've gone past that level. You are a man of the senses...dominated by the senses. I am a man of the Spirit, led by the Spirit of God.

John 4:23 - But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Romans 8:6 - For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.  
 

Anyway, back to the topic...

nferyn,

Let me quote you: "What about secular knowledge that is in clear contradiction to the Biblical account (e.g. the great flood, creation according to Genesis)? How do you approach this?"

This is ignorance on rampage! i am still waitng for you to reel them all out. Show me the so-called contradictions in creation and the great flood.

Let me tell you something. The truth i know did not come as a result of hard thinking. I did not get it from critical reasoning. The philosophers and Pharisees of Jesus' day had more of that kind of wisdom than you. But Jesus' who is wisdom personified left them dumbfounded. The bible says, they marveled at His wisdom.

Philosophers have studied, They tried to find truth, or the essense of life in water, the earth, but to no avail. Budah, before his death said, "i am still in search of Truth". What the people of the world are in search of, we whom you term as foolish, have found in Christ.

Why do we quote from the Bible? Because it contains the written, living word of God. Jesus, quoted from the scriptures, the Apostles did, and so do we.


"John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."  

No one ever talked like Jesus. To say such things, it is either He is telling the truth or He is mad.

There is nothing like personal truth. It is either truth or it is not!

John 16:13 - Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth

John 14:17 - Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him

For the world, seeing is believing. But for those in the kingdom, we believe first, then we see.

You cannot know truth unless it is revealed to you by te Spirit of God. All your studying  and research will not show you truth. It will only make you more confused. There is no Truth apart from Jesus. He is the embidiment of all Truth.

When i read the bible, i do not read it the way you do, like a newspaper or text book, no, no, a thousand times, no. I read it concioous of the fact that i am recieving life from Jesus who is the Word made flesh. I read it with the inspiration of the Holy Ghost. Not with an arguementative mind but with a submissive spirit.

Prov 4:20 "My son, be attentive to my words; incline your ear to my sayings. 21 Let them not escape from your sight; keep them within your heart. 22 For they are life to him who finds them, and healing to all his flesh. "

You probably are too wise in the way of the world for God to show you truth.

1cor 1:21 "For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe."

That is why God will prefer to use ignorant fishermen to shut the mouths of intelligent Pharisees, kings and nobles.

This is the reason why you folks will stop at nothing to criticize the miraculous as demonstrated by God's servants today. Because it brings all your study and research to nothing.


I have never had cause to question my beliefs because i did not make my self believe. The Spirit of God did.


1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking by the Spirit of God ever says "Jesus be cursed!" and no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit.  

The resposibility i have towards you is to pray for you that your eyes be enlightened by God's Spirit. It is not my intention to bring God's word to the level of arguement. It has never been that way and it will ever be. If you think you can use your free thinking jargon to make nonsense of what we belive, you are joking because i only have one question for you...Show me the power of what you believe...if at all you stand for anything.

2cor 4:3 -"But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world(satan) hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."

The number of angels assigned to you depends on the responsibility you have in God's kingdom.

While others have only the guardian angel sent with them when they came into this world, some others who are doing great exploits in God's kingdom have battalions folllowing them around to ensure that the work of God is accomplished without delay or hinderance.

Angels differ in strength and the strength or greatness of the angels you have depend on your assignment in the kingdom. While some have dangerous worriors such as Micheal following them to ensure that the devils kingdom is plundered and souls are set free, heald and delivered, some just have two:goodness and mercy following them around.

See this:

So I was left alone and saw this great vision, and no strength was left in me; my radiant appearance was fearfully changed, and I retained no strength. 9 Then I heard the sound of his words; and when I heard the sound of his words, I fell on my face in a deep sleep with my face to the ground. 10 And behold, a hand touched me and set me trembling on my hands and knees. 11 And he said to me, "O Daniel, man greatly beloved, give heed to the words that I speak to you, and stand upright, for now I have been sent to you." While he was speaking this word to me, I stood up trembling. 12 Then he said to me, "Fear not, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your mind to understand and humbled yourself before your God, your words have been heard, and I have come because of your words. 13 The prince of the kingdom of Persia(demon Spirit in charge of the kingdom of persia) withstood me twenty-one days; but Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, so I left him there with the prince of the kingdom of Persia 14 and came to make you understand what is to befall your people in the latter days...

A junior angel was sent with Daniel's answer from the frist day he prayed but that angel was withstood by a demon for 21 days. Angel micheal had to  come and help him.


You want mighty no-nonsense angels moving with you? ...then make youself available for God's work!

There are billions of angels, enough for every child of God.

Before i go ahead to share a testimony i heard, let me  first thank Mr. Adesodgi for his  picture of an angel which he shared even though i do not think there was really any need for that.

I heard a testimony about a family that parked their car along the express and went off to get some stuff. Not too long after, they heard the screeching of cars as well as loud shouts. Even though the baby was not killed, the driver of the vehicle that almost killed the child kept shouting Jesus, at the top of his voice as he walked quickly towards the child and his parents.

He kept saying at the top of his voice as he approached them, "You do not understand, i did not have enough time to apply my brakes". The car came to a halt without his own effort. Praise God!

God had sent his angel to save the life of that child.

Our own religion involved witchcraft and the sacrificing of twins to the gods.

Thank you very much.

Mark 16:17

" And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover."

You do not see these signs because you do not believe. If you truely believe in God and in His son Jesus, you will see miracles. Because God is a supernatural being and he responds to us his kids as such... through the supernatural.

Jesus was raised from the dead...did he become less powerful than He was then? Is His presence no longer with us today?
My bible tells me that He is the same yesterday today and forever! If He is the same, then He should still be able to do the things He did in bible days otherwise, His death was a defeat and there is no need for anyone to believe in him. There will be no need for Christainity and anyone who claims to have recieved salvation will be decieving himself.

Are you a christian? before you answer that question be careful because salvation itself is a miracle. For a man to recieve eternal life from almighty God, it has to be by a miracle. You have to have even believed in the miracle working power of God which raised Jesus from the dead to save and cleanse you from sin and to also raise you up from the dead with christ and finally to make you a new creature in Him.

I await your response as well as your answers to my questions. Thank you.

Just like Thomas you are saying, "Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails, and place my finger in the mark of the nails, and place my hand in his side, I will not believe." (Jn 20:25)

When you need a miracle, you will believe...you will look for me. Many others have said worse things.  But by the time the doctors gave them up to die,  they searched desperately for someone who believed in miracles to help them.

Like Jesus i have this to say, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe." (Jn 20:29)

Dear Dorcas,

I know that you mean well. But i want to point out something:

The men you sited as having died terrible deaths did not see those deaths as terrible or shuould i say regretable 'cos they laid down their lives. They commanded thier deaths.

Study those stories properly and see for yourself.

You do not have to die t go to heaven!

1cor15:51-52

"Lo! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed."

God Bless you.

HND,

You sure know i've never had a problem replying your posts. I am ever ready to reply you provided this time you will be ready to take a stand somewhere and not choose to speak ambiguously.

I will not let you hide this time behind the obvious fact that not all the works of Jesus were recorded and the rather too obvious fact that there are false prophets. You will take a stand this time. My question for you therefore is this: Do you believe that mirales are for today and that they are relevant for the preaching of the gospel? I am looking out for your answer.

If your anwer is yes, then there is no need for your statement : "The last verse of St John gospel confirmed that all were not recorded. I hope people do not just perform magic now or mistic of magnetism in the name of miracle?" ...because we all know that.

It is like someone who claims to be a christian but will not go to church with the excuse that not all those who go to church are truely christains. We know that already... we do not need to be told. The fact still remains ( as commanded by God's Word) that if you are a christain, you must go to church!

The truth still remains that  if you are called, you will have the necessary credentials to show that you are and that the message you carry is from God.

With all due respect and without being critical, those are the kind of statements made by  those preachers who went without being sent. They make such statements to excuse their powerlessness. If God did not send you, he is not obliged to back up your claims with signs and wonders because you were not sent, you went! He is not offended at you though.

Rom 1:4
"And declared to be the Son of God with power..."

He was declared to be God's son with power...not with Words!

Hebrews 2:1-4

" Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. 2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; 3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; 4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?"

Acts 2:22

"Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know"

1cor 4:19

"But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power"

2cor 12:12

"Truly the signs of an apostle(sent one) were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds"


...Please state clearly where you stand an stop playing with words.