₦airaland Forum

JeSoul:
I know, I know and I'm sorry    Let me put it this way. You would find it hard to constantly be jolly friends with a white man who openly, proudly and constantly declares his utter hate and contempt for black people wouldn't you? Now juxtapose that analogy onto this situation. I personally like a few atheists here on NL but again, surely you must see the problem.

I don't declare utter hate and contempt for theists now do I? well maybe it sounds like a bit of contempt but I can assure you that such contempt is never intended.

JeSoul:
wow eya I understand your antagonism towards religion better and honestly you're justified in doing so.

But my dear dudu the influences that motivate me are soooo light years away and universes different from what motivates religious fanatics. I am motivated not just because I love God, but because I love my fellow men & women and want the best for them.

I believe the world will end someday and those who haven't believed in Jesus will be cast away forever - I care enough to warn and tell as many people as I am able to so that they believe and are saved too. You have no idea how much my heart hurts for my unbelieving friends, and how I pray and wish their eyes would be opened and their hearts be enlightened to the truth. And as much as I care, God cares a billion times more - and this is my motivation.

I agree that not all theists are evil people just as all atheists are not good people, human nature does find away to to break through our belief systems lending some credence to the idea that we are inherently all animals with primal instincts no matter how far we have advanced. It is good that we do have a common ground in loving our fellow man.

Thanks Bindex, I'm good and I've now got a job with CPWN in the UK despite the credit whatever. I had to move house from Edinburgh to Preston and also switched my Broadband and phone provider to TalkTalk (I am yet to get my broadband up and I'm actually posting from the office). How did your pilot training go? and are yu back to stay in Nigeria or yu'll be jettin out again?

JeSoul:
Chris,
becos I like you & yes dudu too, I'm sorry I could not carry on in this thread with the usual geniality you're both used to from me.

Yes I know Jesoul and the feelin is mutual but you do have an unusual way of showin it, just when I expected yu to welcome me back to the forum with open arms like the prodigal son and ask where my wanderings have led me to, you go all Hezbollah on me.

JeSoul:
You must understand as precious and dear as God is to me, I cannot always approach with levity in these matters. Especially when the other side has been known to berate and ridicule Him and therefore me.

Yep the same way I understand those misguided souls killing people in the North and almost killed me in Kaduna in 2002 and before you go all Hezbollah on me again my point is that while you might not descend to killing people, the influences that motivate your actions are basically the same.

Chrisbenogor:
Its time to bow out, I don't like the air.

Second you Chris, I think I'm the one who is actually obeying Jesus' instruction of being meek and mild. 1 Cor 2: 13-15 might actually apply more to Jesoul than she realises. Can't really understand how Gideon came to be a christian, would like to hear his conversion story.

jamiru:
hi chris

thx 4 dat reply but can u explain clearly if u gain anything by being an athiest. . .

@Jamiru

Your initial question is a clear illumination of the reason why most people are willing to keep on holding to lies. The prospect of a truth so radically different from what they have known all their life is too daunting to be embraced. You don't have to seek the truth for the sake of gain but there is inherent gain in knowing the truth. Some other benefits to both the society and yourself as an individual that I can think of are:

1. You won't get exploited by religious charlartans because you understand that God may or may not exist so you would demand proof for supernatural claims

2. You won't be easily brainwashed to go on terrorist missions

3. You can let go of the limitations religion places on your reasoning.

There are a thousand and one other potential benefits, truth be told there are also a thousand and one potential evils that could result from becoming an atheist but then that is human nature isn't it.

JeSoul:
None of the above.

My original statement was that "God is not in the business of proving Himself to anyone" was in the context of replying to Chris' scenario of the research that was done purporting to see if "God really answers prayers".

As to your examples of Gideon and Elijah, the answer is very simple. Were Elijah and Gideon believers in God? yes. They weren't secular, atheist, researchers who aren't genuinely looking for God but moreso another reason to mock God & His believers. God does not go about looking to prove Himself to people like that. and the bible could not be clearer
Rm 1:28 "Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind

Why would God need to prove himself to those who already believe in him? isn't that some sort of contradiction? If Gideon already beleived, why ask for a sign?
The proof was not for those who already beleived it was for those who did not, at least according to the story.

JeSoul:
Yes, and Creflo Dollar, Paula White, TB Joshua, Oyakhilome and co are all christians too.

The mere fact that they put on a study to see if prayer "works" is a mountain of evidence that this so-called christian foundation do not even know the faith they proclaim to profess.

In what way are they different from Gideon? isn't Gideon asking for proof some sort of study in his own way?

JeSoul:
Your opinion.

  A quick search of bible commentaries will quickly show why millions of christians view and understand those verses you're refering to quite differently.

Not in any way my opinion, do I have to quote the verses? millions of christians view and accept exactly what I've written until you take the logical step to start questioning the consistency of God's actions, then they degenerate into the the "He is God and does as he pleases" Mantra. You can do better than this.

Your original statement was that god is not in the business of proving himself to anyone which those particular stories from the bible clearly contradicts no matter what the bible commentaries say. Be man/woman enough to accept your original statement was either wrong or God is inconsistent. You can't eat your cake and have it.

JeSoul:
I'm not suprised at the results. God is not in the business of "proving" Himself to anyone. He chooses to answer prayers when He wants and[b] how [/b] He wants. And no amount of human coaxing - especially for the wrong reasons - will persuade Him otherwise.

This is an untruth JeSoul, when exactly did god tell you this? assuming what you say is true, why then did he ask Gideon to put skins out for a sign? and why did Elijah have to call down fire from heaven into water? that looks to me like a god who wants to prove himself to people. Only problem is that he is a very inconsistent god who is totally unpredictable and therefore cannot be spoken for by any man.

JIL:
Atheists have no business being here in the first place. If I hate music what should I be doing in the music/radio section. Atheists should confine themselves within the romance section to spice up their boring life a little bit. 

If I'm not sick, then what am I doing in the hospital? dumb question, have you ever heard of Doctors and Nurses?

tkb417:
hehehehe
u will just be seein some people with dracula dentition chasing u up and down in the house.

I'll bother about that later, there are a thousand and one Nigerians out there who would willingly live with me in the house and cruise the Lamborghini with me while enjoying playing hide and seek with the zombie ghouls. Who knows, we might even make some sort of tourist attraction.

@donnie

Your theory is outrightly wrong, it depends on the size of the dog and the cow in question. Besides, it doesn't apply in this instance as both May Kelly and Ogaga4luv are full blooded humans of opposite gender "until proven otherwise" and in fact couldn't be more suited for optimal equal yoking.

@Ogaga4luv

Do you have a spell that will build a house for me, furnish it and put a Lamborghini in the garage?

@Poster

Can you please point out in what way thise your so called geniuses have helped mankind? what lasting legacies have they left for our country or the world in general? We still have the works of people like Einstein, Newton, Galileo e.t.c. and even in the modern times we have the likes of Stephen Hawking being learnt in schools and being applied to the various things we use daily.

What do we have to remember your so called geniuses and great men from apart from bastardizing the true works of the original philosophers in Christianity such as Jesus and Paul?

How have they helped our nation or revolutionized thinking and reasoning in our country? and what will they be remembered for in 100 years time apart from the fact that they built big churches and further pauperized the already poor?

The man in the mirror will miss you Mike, a pity the Hyperbaric chambers didn't do their job well. You were a major part of my childhood.

@Pilgrim1

I do admire your logic and reasoning ability, I would however like to ask you this 3 questions, feel free not to answer them if you so wish.

1. In light of your various writings what is your conclusion about God? That he:

a. Exists
b. Probably exists
c. Does not exist
d. Any other reason you can come up with.

2. Why have you come to this conclusion?

a. Because you know it for a fact and can prove it.
b. Because you don't know everything
c. Because you believe
d. Any other reason you can come up with.

3. How does your conclusion affect your life and daily interactions with others.

My first question would have been to ask if you were a christian but your writing does not suggest a typical run of the mill christian.

noetic2:
I do agree completely with ur assertion here.

I guess I was harsh and probably biased in fast dismissing KAG's points by pre-empting that the subject

Aren't you always? anything new?

esensed:
no it is part of it

How can you say this? do you realise that there is no Holy book of Atheism? Agreed, there are leaders of thought in Atheism but their statements have never been sacred canon for anyone unlike your Holy Bible and your god's ungodly statements.
Do you understand now?

By my very rough estimate, between 95 million and 110 million. It is near impossible for the population of Nigeria to have increased by close to 50% from the 80+ million of the 1991 census to the 120+ million of the 2006 census over a 16 year period when the trend shows the average size of families is dropping.
I'm basing this on the premise that the 1991 census is relatively accurate and that the population has increased, in the alternative the population could actually have dropped even though that is very unlikely.

fhybar:
@Tudor, simple physics to you.
why not get a book, put on your chest and let someone fire at you?
lets see if u'll be alive 2 criticize.

Be careful how you talk about my God,

It is you who need to put a book of psalms on your chest and ask someone to fire at you to see if you can recreate that unique set of circumstances that led to the deflected bullet. We attribute his survival to luck and chance but you attribute it to god.

The guy was just plain lucky, did you see the guy a derailed train ran over in Turkey about 2 months ago?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2009/03/05/2009-03-05_turkish_man_survives_freak_collision_bet.html

He had no bible on him and that happened in a muslim country.

FBS:
seems Aluko is the playmaker today?

He is supposed the be the Left winger but he is all over the place. I don't want to see that Left back in the green and white ever again what is his name?

Cristalz:
K, thanks. Perhaps that's why my favorite Naija man isn't playing tonight - Osazee.

@FBS
You're right. . .every man is doing what seems right in his own eyes in there.

What is Ejide's problem?

Why is Osazee your favorite, the skillz or the look?

The goal we conceeded was an offside trap gone wrong. I like what I see in Adeleye, he'll definitely cut it in the SE.

@cristalz

They've got a qualifier comin up next week and need to prevent injuries to key players.

There is no formation, seems everyone wants to score but it seems Akpala and Enemaro are upfront

That Akpala boy is taking up interesting positions upfront but the delivery to him is either delayed or non existent. IK  seems to be playing in the midfield today and that Enemaro guy seems of the low work rate but slippery type.

davidylan:
Isnt it funny how we hog all the scientific discoveries to ourselves and then blame God for "inciting" wars that we started? And yet we claim He doesnt exist?

That is the cross we have to bear, as long as people like you exist then the god you have created or accepted from others very much exists even if only in your imagination.
Who do you want mankind to share the success of science with? God? even you can't have descended that low as your holy book says the search for knowledge is vanity.
Can you dig up just one verse in that your jumble of nonsense that encourages the research you are always so proud to claim as your vocation.

If your early christian authorities had their way, we would all still be fishermen like Jesus' disciples.

Chrisbenogor:
If you talk to God, you are religious. If God talks to you, then you are definitely psychotic

or hungry, I usually hear someone calling my name when I'm hungry and suffering some hypoglycemia. A good meal always solves that problem. Something tells me most people who claim to see visions are in such a state particularly after some mid to long term fasting.

[quote author=m_nwankwo link=topic=274559.msg3933141#msg3933141 date=1243435056]@Poster

To believe or not believe in God is a decision that only you can make. Advices and opinions of others may be well meant but they will not solve your seeming problem. The search for God is personal and my view is that you should only believe what you have personally experienced. What others tell you may be true but unless you have personally experienced it, it will not help you. Doubt is very essential for both material and spiritual development. Thus you should not dismiss or ignore your doubt but wrestle with them, confront them until you gain clarity and inner peace. To ignore or dismiss ones doubt especially in spiritual matters will only lead to blind faith. You should not believe in God because you want to, rather you should because you have personally experienced God both in what is physically visible and invinsible. No true belief in God can arise without personal experience of God and his will.
Thus if one honestly has not personally experienced the existence of God, then it is correct not to believe until you have the personal evidence. I wish you strenghth in your search. Stay blessed.[/quote]Interesting m_nwankwo, would you oblige to tell us in practical terms how your personal experience of God and his will was?

And I do respect your opinion given in the second part.

@ifehart

Can you just point out one (1) thing of pragmatic value that your god has done for mankind as a whole apart from inciting wars, killings, genocide e.t.c.

davidylan:
Precisely the same way your atheist sentiments cloud the way you approach religious issues. I'm glad you can at least appreciate your own hypocrisy.

If you call requiring proof before accepting an argument sentiment then you are right.

banom:
For all i care, God can deny both the Bible and Qu'ran without been guilty, for instance, when a christian and an islam dies, they go to God and ask him for a reward, God will tell them, I DONT KNOW YOU GUYS They will tell God ,we are christian and islam we lived our lives according to your words in the Bible and Qu'ran, God will say, I dont know any Bible and Qu'ran, they will tell God,but the bible and Qu'ran claimed you inspired them, and God will ask them, did i give you any Bible or Qu'ran ?, Did you see my signature on the Bible or Qu'ran ?, If i had wanted you to have Bible or Qu'ran i would have giving them to you just like the way i wanted you to have eyes, ears, legs,head,brain and i gave them to you, Sorry i dont know you, go back to who ever that gave you the Bible and Qu'ran.

This is indeed a very likely scenario, with all the religious confusion we have, if I were God and I truly existed I would have come out (of the closet) and I would definitely give all these deluded christians and muslims a shocker by denying them (even if they somehow turned out to be right). The sheer cheek of claiming to know the only one true god without any evidence would be an utter disservice to me as god.