₦airaland Forum

4llerbuntu:
well even if its biz as usual, there will be one execption- there will be a directive 2 win even if na u17 squad remain. this is arsenal, not tottnham where CL qualification is ultimate. also financial hustlin will improve. enuf of preseason in a village wit abule fc. afterall upon all sef na d ones wey dey go asia or yankee still dey win

And you honestly think there has been no directive to win? we've only been ending up in the top 4 by accident? competing at the top end every year with meagre resources compared to the others at the same level we are at by accident?  SMH.

I hope you know that Kroenke won't be as interested in a Carling Cup or FA Cup as he will be in maintaining a top 4 finish for the guaranteed UCL money.

@Debo

Even you should know Kroenke aint gonna do any of those things yu've mentioned up there. Kroenke is only concerned about the bottom line from what I can see.
You and I know no other manager on this shores and dare I say anywhere else that I know of can guarantee the bottomline as Arsene does.

The only thing that will change in the short term is possibly our revenue drive, on the sports side of things I can't foresee any other changes at present.

@Slim

I've read the offer, its a complete takeover of the club that is being mooted, the offer as it stands now is for Kroenke to buy all the shares not already in his possesion. It will even end up with the club off the market completely if its successful.

@Slim

People only see wetin dem wan see. Aguero my foot.  It is definitely gonna be business as usual, in that regards I'm not unhappy at all. The only person who would have run things differently was Usmanov because he saw the club as a plaything just like the Arabs.

The only grudge I have is that there seems to be no dedication to the concept of plural ownership that the board espoused. I wonder what happened to change the status quo. We go hear in due season sha. For the entire board to unite behind this might mean there was something more ominous looming on the horizon.

@Presido

My grudge with this takeover is mainly twofold:

1.  For so long, Arsenal was the last remaining English big club to be able to stave off the billionaire takeovers, it stood firm with the stance that even the fans could even dream to one day own their club, even the board seemed to support it but its turned out now to be just lip service.
Except there is something we don't know viz-a-viz Usmanov making a move, this is backstabbing of the highest degree so how do you expect me to be happy with it?

2.  In the grand scheme of things, nothing is likely gonna change, only that it is now about greed and how much money Kroenke will make from all these, Kroenke is not an Arab Sheikh who will splash the cash, believe me he is going to make back over 100% of everything he puts into the club, all we are left with is to wish he is not as greedy as the Glazers.

I am eagerly awaiting Usmanov's move, he has a blocking stake so can still prevent the company going into sole ownership if only to make a point but I'm not sure he'll do that. I have been the one supporting this board all along but they've sold their birthright like Esau. I'm tempted to say "Ko ni daa fun gbogbo won."

If that offer is accepted, the fanshare will have to be disbanded and I'll probably get my widow's mite back with some profit on top less the charges by shareview, I can only hope that Usmanov throws a strop and holds on to his shares with the fanshare also kept in place.

presido1:
How come nobody mentioned the penalty incident . Ojoro too much ooh.

Muki sleep no wan come, make we play catch me naw.

Which wan? you mean the one where DJ Campbell flopped to the ground over Lehmann and should have been given a yellow for simulation if they didn't score? 

mystikal:
Blame Wenger for insisting on playing a Cesc who clearly was still feeling the effects of his hamstring.

How won't he play Cesc while he is below 100% when some twats like Denilson are still waiting for someone to tell them what to do on the pitch?  I nor know if dem stamp Captain for Cesc head with invisible ink when dem born am.

mukina2:
duduspace and slimshay deserve to be courtmartialed

i used to love cesc too, after that barca game i felt bad, like how you felt the day your babe ran off with your best man

i am waiting for the day any of you start on any player for similar thing, this thread wont contain all of us

I understand yu Muki, na Dr. Kit I nor understand. Afterall, women don't know the offside rule and give cards based on how ugly or handsome the player appears, infact I believe you hate Cesc just cos Oga couldnt get it up after the Barca loss

slimshay:
Yeah so appaling he released Theo for the 3rd goal with one deft flick I might add.

Yu sef see am? I was on my feet without even realising it.

Nothing is showing up on PLUS markets yet. The last trades were on 08/04/2011 and I guess they were by the fanshare scheme as only small numbers were bought.

http://www.plus-sx.com/companies/trades.html?isin=GB0030895238&securityName=Arsenal+Holdings+plc

whatever is happening will be going down probably tomorrow or later in the week. I hope the media end up with eggs on their faces sha.

slimshay:
Dudu one might not know the full details of these things, but there have been strong rumors that Danny Fizsman has been terminally ill for quite a while now.

Yeah, he has some form of cancer and was gradually pulling out, Usmanov should have gone for Lady Nina's shares when he had the chance, the future of arsenal was always in those two 16% stakes but I never thought someone could pull it off and buy them out at the same time, Stan must be paying way over current market prices. I wonder what the fanshare scheme's response to this will be? maybe we fit take loan take stave off the takeover attempt afterall interest rate nor high presently and the shares are good collateral. 

biolabee:
nice one dudu do u hv any idea what this means for other shareholders and even the fan share

the rules state that if he passes a certain percentage he has to bid for all shares of the club
what next?

Once he gets over 50% its game over, takeover is achieved as he can always win any vote that requires a simple majority, all the other shareholders are sitting ducks, taking the club off the market requires 75% of shares but at that stage its a moot point, there is really no need for anyone holding on to any shares when yu'll just be rubber stamping the majority holder's decision or writing your own minority report which would mean jack.

This is a serious stab in the back if Fiszman does this, why hold on so long then? What then was all the talk of commitment to multiple ownership about?   I would have preferred Lady Nina selling to Usmanov so that the balance is maintained. So at the end of it all, we still turn into a rich man's plaything like Chelsea? what a sad day it would be if this goes through.

slimshay:
In other news, the American is about to cross the 30% barrier. What are the ramifications of that.

Serious Slim?
that would be serious cos I didn't expect him making such a move if he can't get over the 50% barrier that would give him a majority on the board and that would only be possible if he gets Lady Nina's shares along with Fiszman selling out to him. If he goes over 30% but not over 50% then he would have to sell down to below 30% again.

Anyway, this is the time for anyone who wants to buy Arsenal to make their move, at the rate the fanshare scheme is going, 8 - 10% of all the shares should be in the fanshare scheme within 2 years making it nigh impossible for anyone to become sole owner as things stand cos Usmanov and Kroenke are never gonna sell out to each other due to pride.

Decent game today, if only injury would allow Diaby play more like that. MOM for me. RVP was a bit wasteful and Nasri is still looking for a second wind and does anyone still think its going to be easy replacing Cesc?  

Goal or not, I still want Eboue as part of that clearout, gotten tired of seeing him raising his hand for a none existent offside when he should be tracking his man.

4llerbuntu, go chop chill pill abeg, no club has a dvine right to win anything, we are still in it and the season is not over, don't take 2nd place or UCL qualification for granted, you can go and ask DK and the chavs who both did doubles last season how their seasons have petered out this year (with largely the same players and coaches that did so wonderfully last season).
Yes we want the trophyless period over, yes we could have done better this season but in no way is this season the disaster that yu're making it out to be.
Go and ask the Spuddites, Villans and Evertonians who we have consistently been told will overtake us for the past 6 years, some of them are currently fighting relegation if yu didn't notice and just one season in the UCL has shown Spurs that yam and pounded yam aint mates.
Even all of the money from Abu Dhabi aint changed nothing yet so what is the noise about? 

It aint over until the fat lady sings jare, the gooners match on.

montelik:
See luck. If d ref hadn't played advantage it would have been a red card for Lehmann and a penalty, meanwhile Arsenal don't have a goalie on d bench. Who would have played in goal, Koscielny?

blah blah blah, if Vidic had also been rightly sent off against West Ham instead of a yellow for his foul on Demba Ba nko?

kashmo:
I thought we forgot how to win games again

Actually, I thot Eboue had forgotten how to score
thats his first goal this season.

Arsenal we love thee, come what may, we shall be here supporting you. Lets go there

my view on the Schwarzer/Wellington issue is that no way is Schwarzer going to guarantee any club trophies. I wonder how many exactly he has won (no insult meant to a decent professional) but to only consider the cost of buying both players is barely scratching the surface.

1. In terms of wages per week, in no way will an 18 year old unproven player earn the same amount that a proven International keepwer with massive experience will earn. Even though a 3.5m payment to Fulham would have gotten us Schwarzer, the total cost of having him in a season might actually be up to the same amount we got him for.

2. When buying youth players the deals are usually structured with milestones that kick in so getting Wellington for a total 3.5m doesnt mean we had to shell out that amount immediately, we would have however had to pay the entire amount for Scwarzer nigh immediately.

3. In terms of opportunity cost, buying Schwarzer would have meant potentially losing a talent of the class of Tech9 who has actually become a fan favorite almost immediately with a potential 15 years worth of playing time to look forward to, thereby justifying the decision.

debosky:
I am being pedantic?

I am judging based on Wenger's words - consistency means either maintaining the level of last season or improving. Instead, the side has regressed. Whether it is a 'failure' or not, I leave that to you to decide. I have simply stated a fact that our performance has clearly WORSENED.

True, but wouldn't we have improved on last season if we come 2nd in the league rather than 3rd?

debosky:
There is no disingenuous commentary here. Utd is in the semis of the FA cup, leading the league and one leg in the semis of the UCL. That is as clear an indication that the events are not mutually exclusive.

I'm not arguing they are mutually exclusive, if they were there would be no talk of doubles, trebles and quadruples, but to say they have no effect on each other isnt right.

debosky:
With regards to direct/indirect effects, those are largely irrelevant when it comes to Arsenal vis-a-vis our fellow competitors. Prioritization only comes in with regard to effort vs reward. If you end up botching all four as Arsenal have done recently, the prioritization is pointless. Interestingly enough, it is in a year with less of this prioritization that we have managed to reach a final and be second in the table.

I rather think we've done better in that regards due to the squad being stronger overall than any we've had in recent years.

debosky:
Overall performance? At this point last season (30 games played) Arsenal had 64 points with a +38, losing 6 games but winning 20. Without a doubt, our overall performance has worsened. Our attack has worsened and we have drawn more frequently.
Secondly, if we fail to win a trophy then he has failed in both cases.

Stop being unnecesarily pendantic, I wasn't even comparing the season so far with last year's performance just looking at our league position.
With our investment in the team, 2nd position is not a failure any way you look at it, besides what exactly would it matter if by some totally weird occurence we got 75 points and won the league? not sure what our league position was at this stage of the season but its generally accepted the standard of the lower league clubsides have improved this season?

debosky:
In this regard, the comparison is irrelevant because coming second or getting a UCL place is not at the cost of going out of the FA cup and losing the CC final - those events are not mutually exclusive.

Yes they are not mutually exclusive but it would be disingenious to say that there are no direct or indirect effects of one on the other or else managers and the media wouldn't make references to prioritisation of one over the other when the games are coming thick and fast.

debosky:
The crucial question to be asked at the end of the season is, has AW done the maximum with the talent he has?

That is a difficult question to answer Debo, in terms of trophies won the answer would probably be NO (we could and should have beaten Birmingham) in terms of overall performance I would say YES (some others I know would prolly say NO) and that is the conundrum that has been Arsenal since 2005.
We have been very good but not quite good enough, some other times we've been truly unlucky but then yu're supposed to make your own luck.

It shouldn't always be the case that you should make a choice between the FA Cup/Carling Cup and 2nd place for example, but if you ask me 2nd place and a UCL spot trumps winning either the CC or FA Cup any day but the tory don dey loooong.
Taken in isolation, this season as usual is not bad, but if you accept the media's 5/6 years mantra then things are certainly not good.  Arsenal tires me atimes jare but then what can one do? 

presido1:
Campaign to take the board back on NL. Sometimes i wonder how una reason. You, debo, dr kit, muki, hnic, A-40 will gum bar and out buy Stan Korenke and Usmanov :of. SMH.

Dey dere, your eye go see am, even if it takes 40 years,  the fanshare scheme is going to become a majority shareholder. Unfortunately I can't say the same for your yeye club It can only get there faster if people like 4llerbuntu stop moaning about things they cant control and actively take steps to make their voice count where it actually matters.

Even the red and white knights of manchester despite being jokers of the highest degree understood that this was the only way a great majority of fans can have a say in the affairs of the club.

@Sun of god

Statelessness doesn't mean yu're not from somewhere, it means you are not officially recognized as a citizen by that sovereign state. Why should he have to claim he lost a passport he never had? under oath for that matter?  is that not some kinda perjury?

Even if they trace him to Igbotako, as long as Nigeria doesn't recognize him then the law doesn't allow his deportation cos he also will not be accepted in Nigeria.

@bluecole2

Why not just declare statelessness? If the Nigerian embassy is refusing to give you a passport why not obtain some legal advice to ascertain what your options are? You would become a protected person of the crown by virtue of your stateless status.

Based on what you say, yu've never had a Nigerian passport and yu've always lived in the UK after being brought in illegally as a child. If you came in on your parent's passport I think that makes you stateless if yu've been refused one by the Nigerian embassy or if by dint of circumstances outside your control you cannot produce what they've requested.

If you can get a letter from them detailing what they've requested and are able to show that yu're unable to obtain it legally then you have a solid basis to declare statelessness or if you get a legal representative to communicate with the embassy on your behalf so that you have documentary evidence of your efforts at obtaining one.

debosky:
@ proudly

Comfortable with results I don't think so. . . .his ego will tell him that he can eventually make it work despite the constraints and do something unprecedented in an era of excessive spending. His desire to achieve that 'unique' thing keeps driving him, not satisfaction with the way things are as such.

What I do think is that he has accepted the funding levels and has decided he will make it work regardless - however, when left alone to his devices, the negative effects of his stubbornness (one of the attributes that makes him a great manager) become more dominant. This is why a proper counterweight is needed on the board - something we currently lack.

Wenger will never come out to discuss what he deems are private issues - the same reason he will not castigate players publicly, or discuss signings of a player publicly, or give any clues as to what is happening behind the scenes. What I strongly believe to be the case is this:

Wenger has 'bought' the silence of the board by being handed total control. . . . they in turn have 'bought' protection from public ire by getting Wenger to agree never to contradict them in public.

Wenger is attempting an experiment on a grand scale at Arsenal - he always thinks he can do something revolutionary, something original. For the potential glory of getting it done 'his way', he will take the flak for the board and anything wrong at the club.

The closest this 'agreement' came to being broken was when a few years ago, the criticism became too direct for AW, and the board moved to make him 'comfortable' by controlling the type of questioning during the AGM.

A simple explaination of how things stand but largely valid. I have nothing more to say. The time has come for true fans to put their money where their mouth is and get involved like Debo challenged 4llerbuntu, if you can't join Fanshare then join AST and do something where you can effect a change.

I am not for the club getting a sugardaddy but I'm also not satisfied with where we are but I'm still willing to back Arsene for now cos I believe his strategy really can work and is the best for the club's long term prospects. I'm however starting to reconsider present prospects on the basis of this season.
Everyone now has an opportunity to hold a stake in the club, if you consider the board members to be scrooges then lets take the board back from them after all PHW actually has less than 1% of the holdings.

Good news another stupid wannabe dictator bites the dust. I'm happy for Ivorians.

4llerbuntu:
ok, so according to debosky, arsenal is a hopeless, ambitionless club from the top down. or is that not what your last posts have simply outlined ?

It is what you've interpreted it to mean. Ambition is relative, some are ambitious to win trophies at all costs, some's ambitions is to not run into debt first of all while taking anything that comes
If Arsenal wasn't ambitious, they wouldn't build the Emirates, at some point properly managed risks will have to be taken, with each passing season without trophies, that point draws ever closer.

debosky:
Good question - nobody knows for sure but I have my own theory.

1. In the absence of a strong board who are content with remaining close to the top, he has decided to attempt to do the near impossible and 'grow' a team that wins without the large injections of capital.

2. He wants to win no doubt - if he didn't you wouldn't see the passion on the touchline or the spirited defence of his side. . . .that aspect to me is undiminished.

3. He has no 'challenge' from the board - even the best of people need someone who can challenge them or make them look at things from a different perspective. Since the departure of Dein, this element has become missing. As a result, since he has nothing to 'prove' as it were apart from his personal ambition to win the CL, he may have become too engrossed in his 'experiment'.

Wenger is a flawed manager - all of them are. What differentiates them is their working environment. Without a board that will either say you MUST win so and so or be sacked next season, or just identify the player you want and we will go all out for him, you might not see a change in his overall philosophy.

This is the crux of the friction between the fans and the club. Instead of the board coming out to state this truth, they let Wenger take the heat on their behalf.

Couldn't have put it better Debo, the fine line we might never be clear about is where Arsene's flaws begin to become the problem. Last season, despite all the noise about being without trophyless for 5 years. PHW came out and said boldly that if you've seen a better manager than Arsene anywhere in the world you should point him out. That tells me the public's metrics for judging Arsene is not the same metric being applied by the board.

I am one of Arsene's staunchest supporters and even I can't put these season's wahala down to squad investment alone though it still might have a minute part to play and I know it won't be an excuse for Arsene this season. This team has come of age to win but they didn't that is a fact. We are at another watershed like we were in the 07/08 season, where we go on from here is critical, in my opinion Arsene deserves one more crack at ending this trophy drought by getting rid of some of the dead weight we've carried for some time.

We all now know and I'm sure Arsene also knows those who performed this season, those who were lukewarm and those who were abysimal.

The only person who needs a bed on here is that hairy little thing? whose baby is it? and why is no one breastfeeding it rather than giving it milk from a can? una neva hear about exclusive?

I'll never vote for Goodluck because it is wrong to depend on unreliable goodluck to put right the things that are wrong in our polity, there is the place for strategy, dedication, integrity and old fashioned will power none of which I sadly can associate with the aptly named goodluck.
I'm not so much concerned about the route a man takes to greatness as I am with what exactly he did to achieve it or what he did with it after having it thrust on him.

Sorry 4llerbuntu, until you decide to buy the club yourself, no one can change that board or its policies, it is about putting your money where your mouth is. Kinda like Fayed putting MJ's statue in front of Craven Cottage, fans can rant all they like but the statue is there to stay at least until some people go and vandalise it.

HNIC:
I am not making excuses for Arsenal. . . but when reporting, pls give a balanced view

The day DK gives a balanced view of Arsenal would be the day the Pope stars in a Indecency flick endorsed by the vatican.