₦airaland Forum

If he is a war criminal, make you take his case to some international court have him posthumously declared as one

kingoflag: Its nonsense because you tried to delve from the core of the debate and embrace sarcasm instead of an intelligent retort. You know why? Because most of cannot defend,logically, that which you so wholeheartedly believe in. I have no problems with anyone's religious beliefs in so far as it doesnt harm me or affect the way of life of me and my loved ones. What I have a problem with is irrationality and the refusal to think outside the box because of beliefs that were handed to you by your slave masters. Beliefs that have done nothing but kept generations of you guys in mental bondage. To each is own, but its always best to see things from all angles.

Sarcasm was legitimate in this case. I made up a fake Bible verse which supports the OPs claim that we should pay attention to the British.

This illustrates the point I have made repeatedly in this thread: from the perspective of a Christian, the British are irrelevant.

I don't know what else to say...if you didn't understand how my response was relevant, there is really nothing I can do to make it more clear.

Prof Corruption: What I found disgusting is the notion that the likes of Achebe can stand on a kind of moral pedestal to call others including Awolowo a "tribalist" . If Awolowo was one, what should we call Achebe? The same Achebe criticized Conrad in and out for espousing white supremacist ideas in his book. The same man who believes, rightly or wrongly, that he is of the superior tribe is also criticizing others for refusing to be dominated by his angelic Igbo people. Laughable. The same man blamed his enemies during a raging war for not supplying him food.

Damn. I even forgot about this Conrad incident.

Why does Igbo supremacist have any problem with white supremacist?

Why is this Achebe of a man such a hypocrite sef?

Achebe earlier claimed that Awolowo was driven by some irrational hatred of Igbos.

But now we can see that if Awolowo hated Igbos, he was quite rational, yes?

Or is one supposed to love someone who believes he is superior to you, and is not shy about expressing this belief?

@kingoflag: It isn't nonsense. I don't understand why you have such difficulty comprehending it.

In Christianity, the relevant guy is Jesus Christ.

Not the British.

When did Achebe become a historian

kingoflag: And Jesus died on the cross to save your soul? Is that what he told you?

How is that relevant? This thread is not about debating the truth of verses in the Bible, is it?

That is neither here nor there.

My point is, the British certainly did not die on any cross to save my soul

So wetin concern me with them and what they do?

The funny thing about all of this is that the more Achebe talks, the more my beloved Awolowo is vindicated

I hope he continues talking.

So, to conclude.

I think we can all agree that Nigerians are not unjust in hating Igbos, if Achebe's attitude is at all common.

Is this a fair statement? I think even a neutral third party would agree to this.

Katsumoto: Have you read Azikiwe's speech to the Ibo Union in 1949, in which he talked about the superiority of the Ibo (his words) people?

Two years later, he sought, as leader of the NCNC, to become the premier of the Western Region. When he lost that election, he blamed it on cross-carpeting from NCNC to AG by people who didn't want an Igbo to lead them. Nevermind that he lost that election, isn't it astounding that a man who claimed superiority for his group, would then seek to lead another group?

I don't get it. It is as if their brains don't function properly.

You cannot insult me to my face and then the next day ask to lead me.

When I wake up in the morning, I pull out my compass and pray in the direction of London.

The British died on the cross, to save our souls. So if they abandon Christianity, we should too

Anyway, the OP is right.

Let me quote from Hebrews 12:2:

Let us fix our eyes on Jesus the British, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Nigerian Christians, see? The OP's worship of the British is Biblically supported.

KINGwax: The truth be told, some folks brought christianity to the british, not dt it started from there.

I wonder oooh.

These same British we mention. I guess it was brought to them via France, Italy or something.

Yet, the British have their own ANGLICAN church which was created in part to separate them from the Catholic Church of most of mainland Europe.

So even the British that you want to do "follow-follow" for didn't do "follow-follow" when it came to their own Christianity.

For a guy named "Logicboy", you are quite the illogical fellow.

Logicboy03: Nope, upon learning why Britain is a secular country, one would see the pitfalls of a religious society. Society affects the individual

See, this is why your argument is so r3tarded.

Rather than:
a) arguing directly that religion is dangerous/bad/etc for NIGERIAN society

you instead:
b) argue that, "hey, the Brits are becoming secular! Therefore, we should do follow-follow too and become secular!"


Do you not see that your argument would be a lot more effective if you provided logic/reason, rather than argument by "follow-follow"?

Logicboy03: You are arguing for arguing sake.

Britian has had an impact on our country that America could never have as our colonial masters, the head of the commonwealth and the peeps who found oil in our country.


Now, please take a look at the most advanced or peaceful countries and correlate that with it secularism and the brand of christianity they follow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Peace_Index#Global_Peace_Index_rankings

I personally do not give a sh1t about the UK.

I don't make decisions in my life based upon what is happening in the UK.

Why on earth should your average Nigerian do the same?

The UK is an insignificant country in the grand scheme of things, and has rapidly lost much of the influence it has had on the hearts and minds of Nigerians.

So, why in 2012 should Nigerians be caring about the religious preferences of Brits?

Logicboy03: Who were you referring to?

Coward

Lmao. Anyone who fits the description there? Must I specifically name Bob, Tom, Ralph, Joe? Can I even do so, unless I interrogate Bob, Tom, Ralph and Joe first and find out what their beliefs are?

The post you quoted applies to any that fit that description.

Logicboy03: Nice trick there. Playing semantics with "enjoy". Lets switch Enjoy with "benefit"

The same point still stands, regardless of what word you use.

Lets review the original argument.


Britian that gave us christianity has dropped their christinity? Why did they drop it? Does it benefit them? Does it benefit us to be a christian society?

Perfect.

So, let's take a random Nigerian Christian. Call him X.

You do agree that X, upon learning that Britain is less Christian than before may still decide that this has no impact on his own life and decision to remain a Christian, and that this would be a perfectly reasonable position?

1. Jesus Christ was a Jew.
2. The Jews have rejected and abandoned him.

From this, are we to conclude that:
3. Christians should also reject and abandon Jesus?


No, this would be m0ronic.

Although Jesus was a Jew, his message is greater than the Jewish people. He is more important than all of them combined.

kpozite: Are you this ignorant or is this a joke. Dumb. @ss

Well, clearly the Coptic Church is older than any of the churches in Britain, France, Germany, etc. So Christianity reached Africa well before it reached Western Europe.

The Roman Catholic Church claims that it was founded directly by Jesus. But practically speaking, the Coptic church might predate it. Granted, there is some ambiguity in my statement.

But the statement "Christianity is older in Africa than in Western Europe" is unambiguously true.

Logicboy03: America understands separation of church and state. They are quite secular when it comes to their laws.

Sure, separation of church and state is a key part of governance. However, how is this relevant to your original post? Is your claim that the Nigerian government is not as secular as it should be?

If so, then I agree in part...the subsidization of pilgrimmigaes is something I would do away with. But aside from that, Nigerian laws seems relatively secular.

Have you seen the statistics of church attendance in the USA? Hmm?

Yes. They are quite higher than in Europe.

The most peaceful and Advanced countries in the world (Where America is not the top or leader) have dropped the importance of christianity ion daily life and government.

1. Well, Britain is certainly not one of the more advanced countries in the world. It isn't really a country we should be looking up to or drawing major examples from, in my opinion.
2. If by "peaceful and advanced" you are referring to these Scandinavian countries...unclear how much in common Nigerians have with them, or how easily they will related to your typical atheist Swede or Dane.
3. However, Yankee (which seems to have a significant impact on Nigerians) is still quite Christian.

Logicboy03: You have just called me a racist.

You must have some reasoning problem. Who told you that I hate the white man or Britain?

You may or may not be a racist. But clearly, you cannot read.

Where was your name mentioned in the text you quoted?

Logicboy03: Very relevant question but incomplete.


"Do I still enjoy playing football after realising why the british stopped playing football"

Which is the same as my original question, just a step further.

Then let us ask some other similar questions.

1. "Do I still enjoy sex with my girlfriend? My best friend doesn't enjoy sex with his girl any more."
2. "Do I still enjoy eating pounded yam? My father doesn't enjoy pounded yam any more."
3. "Do I still enjoy eating drinking stout? My mother doesn't enjoy stout any more."



I don't know about you. But for me, the things I like/enjoy, I like them independent of whether my best friend/father/mother enjoys them

Logicboy03: Sharap.


We are talking about West Africa where Christianiy never touched until Eurpeans came

*shrug*

OK, so you are claiming that for West Africans, Christianity should be rejected.

But for Egyptians, Ethiopians, Eritreans, Somalis and possibly Kenyans, it is perfectly fine for them to be Christian?

So my Kenyan buddy who looks very similar to me, it is fine for him to be a Christian, but taboo for me?

Logicboy03: Straw man argument. I never said that. Secularism is a pluralistic idea. Secularism for Britian and Nigeria will still bring about different laws.

Just look at Sweden and Japan. Both secular but different societies and laws.

So, what exactly is your point, then? Nigerians should become less Christian because Britain is? Like I said, who gives a sh1t? Isn't it r3tarded to assume that our circumstances are exactly the same (or more precisely, are similar enough so that what holds in country A also holds in country B)?

A lot of people seem to hate Christianity simply because it was brought to them by the white man, and they hate/resent the white man.

Just because you hate colonialism or hate/love white people (British in particular) doesn't mean you have to hate Christianity.

Christianity doesn't belong to the white man...the Coptic Church is older than any European church.

Christianity was established in Eastern Africa long before it was established in Europe.

Granted, it took a bit of a circuitous route to enter West Africa.

Nevertheless, it is a perfectly fine religion for an African man to have.

[quote author=pastor prosper ]The bible commands "touch not my annoited and do my prophets no harm. It amounts to undue generalisation to say all pastors are fakes.amongst every twelve there might be a judas, but there alys remains a perfect eleven, to which I humbly submit I am.[/quote]1. Where does the Bible say that insulting pastors is an unpardonable sin, as you claim?
2. Is insulting causing a prophet harm?
3. What about simple criticism?
4. How does one differentiate a true prophet of God from a fake pastor?
5. Is it OK to insult fake pastors?

kacheezy: The church is always evolving and when the white man says...ok now we want to consecrate gay bishops...who are Africans to question this decision? Is Christianity an African religion? We can't be more catholic than the Pope....Africans have no right to question the changes in the church...it was just a product sold to us via slavery and colonization...why do we hold on to it in such a tenacious way?

Christianity is more an African religion than it is a European religion.

The church is older in Africa than it is in Europe.

Logicboy03: Foolish argument.



The argument is that Nigerians never stop to think why the British dropped their christianity that they gave us. They stopped it because they realised that a society can not be run on religious morality but by secular laws based on logic and not faith.

Isn't it m0r0nic to assume that what is true for British society and culture is also true for Nigerian society and culture?

If the British stopped playing football, a rational person would ask why. If the reason is not logical, then we dont follow the British in stopping to play football!

A rational person might ask, yes. But, the more relevant factor is, "Do I still enjoy playing football? Does it make me happy?"

If so, wetin concern you with what the British decide?

Now, does the average Nigerian christian ask why the British dropped their religion?

What if the "why" the British dropped their Christianity is not relevant or of any interest to Nigerians?

In particular, why should they be obsessed with the "why" of Britain? Why is Britain so important in the grand scheme of things? Why not look to the example of America for example, where Christianity is still quite important?

At any rate, even if all other countries on earth dropped Christianity, it doesn't follow that Nigerians should do the same.

[quote author=pastor prosper ]Fellow Nairalanders I have watched with shock d barrage of insults pastors have had to go through lately. My question is, what amounts to d unpardonable sin the bible talked about.

In view of what happened to Miriam after she criticised an obvious wrong Moses had done. Hmmmmmmmm!! all u who criticise pastors are committing the unpardonable sin o!![/quote]Where in the Bible does it say this?

ScienceFiction: Nairaland is not ready for this type of information. You would have better luck discussing such information on a blog dedicated to science.

Here is an artistic illustration of the Moon being created from Earth.

Image credit: Fahad Sulehria http://www.novacelestia.com/

You are correct. But I will at least do my part by sharing important things when I come across them.