₦airaland Forum

Janosky:
Abraham had many offsprings in the physical realm he dwells.
But,only Isaac was begotten.

See delusion.

So others are not begotten by Abraham

God has many sons in the spiritual realm HE dwells.
But only one son, Jesus is begotten in the spiritual realm.

You mean other Angels are not BEGOTTEN....

So what does it mean to be BEGOTTEN?

Was the word "begotten" ever applied to God our heavenly Father at any time?

Definitely not!

The right question should be what does it mean to be begotten?

If you can answer this, them you'll see how your delusion about Isaac was ONLY BEGOTTEN BY Abraham and Jesus being theONLY BEGOTTEN.

I know your BEGOTTEN here means CREATED.

So, other Angels not CREATED KO

Maybe God manufactured them

Every begotten son had a beginning, revelation 3:14 &
1 Corinthians 11:11-12 .

What does it mean to be BEGOTTEN?

Janosky:
[b]No Sir.
The expression "First born of creation" is not a figure of speech.

But it's not about FIRST CREATED

The word first born is a common expression in the old and new testaments.

Yes! Common expression for POSITION not FIRST CREATED.

From Genesis to Revelation, every first born is a creature,no exceptions.

That's not the point of the writer.

Where FIRSTBORN ARE USED in from Genesis to Revelation has where the object isn't THE FIRST PERSON given birth to in the family has ALWAY BEEN ABOUT HIGHER RANK

"The first born of God" at Hebrew 1:6a is not a figure of speech.

Neither is it a direct meaning of FIRST CREATED.

Apostle Paul completed explained what he meant when he said Chirst is the FIRSTBORN it simply means PREEMINENCE.

Did you not read that from Paul?

God his Father is also the Father of all.

We can't say the first born of every child is not a child.

Then why do you say the Son of God is NOT GOD?

Therefore, Jesus the first born of every creature is himself a creature. Micah 5:2 Hebrew text.[/b]

Jesus is the Creator, He created you, Michael and everything in the universe.

Yahweh is not a limited God who needs a lesser god to help Him in creation or lie lie God since He CALIMED HE CREATED ALL THING ALL BY HIMSELF.

Micah 5:2 is never in your support, as you can't still removed that delusion from your head.

Micah 5:2 is another evidence that Jesus never had BEGINNING.

freshboi88:
Please show me where Jesus corrected them ?

That is to show you how they are so angry with anything in the scripture that proved Jesus to be Almighty God.

As you see him, he agreed with his fellow Jws on this forum that the Apostle actually MADE MISTAKE and because of that Bible actually contradicted (even though they can't make such statement in their hall) yet Jesus never corrected them.

Janosky:
"Honor your Father and your mother "
"Honor Jesus just as you honor the Father"
Yet, the hierarchy @1 Corinthians 11:3 & Hebrew 6:13 is irreversible and irrevocable.


Freshboi, does your honoring Jesus change anything @
1 Corinthians 11:3 & Hebrew 6:13?

Whether you keep WAILING & throwing tantrums about honoring Jesus, 1 Corinthians 11:3 & Hebrew 6:13 is sacrosanct.

Confused Trinitarians and woke IBERIBEISM are very inseparable.

Do you honor your father and mother JUST AS you honor Jehovah?

This JaNosense quoted me and started calling another moniker which shows how confused he was.

Janosky:
Micah 5:2 Hebrew text.
His (Jesus) ORIGIN (beginning) is of old, from the days of yore."

Origin from ETERNITY, can something with beginning existing in ETERNITY JaNosense?

Janosky:

The screenshot evidences are self explanatory.
"Like" is not in the Hebrew text but added by English Bible translators.

God said to Moses:
" I have made you God to Pharaoh."
Exodus 7:1.

Which mean your NWT added to what is not in the original Hebrew.

See how this JaNosense keeps proving that his beloved NWT is inaccurate.

TemmyT002:
It was his father who gave him a name that is above every other name. He didn't give himself.

He existed along side of the Father BEFORE CREATION.

TemmyT002:
But he never for once made himself equal to his father.
He PRAYED to his father
If they were equals, he didn't need to pray.
It was his father who raised him from the dead. He didn't raise himself.
His father used him to create the universe. He didn't create it himself.
He said, He is the way. The way means there is still a destination. The father is the destination.
He said no one comes to the father except through him. Meaning his father is greater than he is.
He said, "In my father's house, there are many mansions."
He didn't say, "In my house, there are many mansions."

You never addressee any of my point above

Why?

Do you honor Jesus JUST AS you honor the Father?

TemmyT002:
copied

He also said:

1. He existed along side with the Father even before creation happened.

2. He shared glory with the Father.

3. That ALL MEN should honor HIM JUST AS they honor the Father.

MaxInDHouse:
You're just hungry for fruitless arguments and i'm not interested in such nonsense so keep whatever beliefs you have!

So you saying okay and me saying BETTER is now and headache to you.

Come out plain, stop doing hide and seek

Aemmyjah:
Did Jesus said that him and the father are equal or that the Father is greater than he is?

The content of John 10:30 is at play here!

Even when Jesus made that statement, the people who heard Him loud and clear picked up stone.

Go and Google the trinitarian definition and interpretation of John 10:30 and educate the OP

You're asking me to Google.

Is Trinity not interpretated as THREE PERSONS in one God

So, how can the same Trinitarian now believe that both Jesus and the Father are the SAME PERSON?

It's evident you don't even understand the position of Trinitarian in the first place.

MaxInDHouse:
OK!

Better!

Aemmyjah:
I admit I misunderstood you

Better

And I'm happy you disagree with trinitarians interpretation of that verse that Jesus and God are not the same

You don't even know Trinitarian position yet you want to argue against it.


No Trinitarians have ever said Jesus and the Father ARE THE SAME based on that Jesus statement "I and the Father are one"

What Trinitarian infer from that verse is that, Jesus placed Himself on equal level with the Father.

O ma se ooo

MaxInDHouse:
So when talking about Jesus not Almighty God you won't say it's only JWs that hold such teaching.

Have I ever said ONLY JWs hold the teaching.

Like I said, it's you who have been in denial of only JWs have the TRUTH.

gohf:
I know someone may have been led by God to respond to you but incase why not read verse 15 before verse 17

Col.1.15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: (KJV)

Jesus being the first creation of God isn't God Himself the creator of all who used him to make others

It's so funny how you read FIRSTBORN in Col 1:15 but in your statement it was changed to FIRST CREATION

Do you thing Paul who wrote Col 1:15 didn't know that there's a word for FIRST CREATION before he used FIRSTBORN?

If you read down to verse 18 then you will know why FIRSTBORN IS ACCURATELY used rather than FIRST CREATED.

The term firstborn is about PREEMINENCE NOT about creation.

Heb.1.2 But now in these final days, he has spoken to us through his Son. God promised everything to the Son as an inheritance, and through the Son he made the universe and everything in it. (NLT)
Heb.1.3 The Son reflects God's own glory, and everything about him represents God exactly. He sustains the universe by the mighty power of his command. After he died to cleanse us from the stain of sin, he sat down in the place of honor at the right hand of the majestic God of heaven. (NLT)

So, JESUS IS A CREATOR.

Or didn't the verse you quoted here said Jesus was involved in CREATION?

Is Jesus undermined by being called son of God and not God? Do you think he is that proud like the devil who wants to be who he is not?

Not entirely true.

Jesus was called God many times.

The power of a creature? The question is who gave the power.

If I was given a power to become PRESIDENT, am I PRESIDENT or not?

The sun shines everyday how can the sun have so much power to illuminate all the earth, it was given so.

The sun has limited power, even you have your own power.

But the point from the OP is OMNIPOTENT attributes as seen in that Heb 1:2 being used for Jesus. NO CREATURE CAN SUSTAINED THE WHOLE UNIVERSE.

One of the attributes that makes God to be God is UNLIMITED POWER - OMNIPOTENT.

MaxInDHouse:
No problem at least you know now that it's not only JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES that teaches Jesus is not the Almighty God.
I think that's enough for now!

@color part is very funny. I NOW KNOW ke.... Or you have been the one in denial.

The heresy of Jesus is not Almighty God which is against God's Word.

Can be traced to as early as first century. In fact it was the teaching that leads the early Christians to use God's word to come up with the Trinity explanation.

So, you see, if JWs can go back to the false teaching of early heresy then it says a lot about their master.

And since you also agreed that not only JWs having this teaching shows MANY ACTUALLY HAVE THE TRUTH.

MaxInDHouse:
Other translations rendered the verse as:

"I have made you God to Pharaoh"

So your NWT is wrong here, right?

Anyway, your earlier point was that Moses WAS GOD not that He WAS MADE GOD! these are different things.

That is why God later said he will send another prophet like Moses to the Israelites {Deuteronomy 18:18-19} and Peter confirmed that this promised prophet is Jesus of Nazareth! Act 3:22

So the prophet will be LIKE Moses, compare this with the same above when the scripture says Moses was MADE LIKE A GOD to Pharaoh.

Can you see the same thing?

So Moses and Jesus were made God by the Almighty God!

No where scripture ever says Jesus was MADE GOD.

Besides, if somethong is made to be HUMAN that thing will be ACTUAL HUMAN in all ramifications.

Example of this is your belief that the misled angles actually have ALL HUMAN HAS to the extend of impregnating women.

So, if you agreed that both Moses and Jesus were MADE GOD, then it means both Moses and Jesus are ACTUALLY GOD in all ramifications. It that true?

But by including the word "LIKE" shows it's just a metaphor.

Petalss:
What is a glorified body? Does anyone else possess this glorified body, or is it unique to Jesus alone?

A glorified body is a mortar taking up incorruptible.

No! Glorified body is after resurrection.

Regarding God's plan from the beginning: His original intention was not for humans to die. What kind of nature did Adam possess when God planned for them to live eternally?

The nature of Adam is still the same today which HUMAN

And what happened to that nature, resulting in the eventual reality of death?

The nature got corrupted, tainted with sin and became prone to death.

Janosky:
Emusan LYING miscreant,
Hebrew language Micah 5:2 prophecy about Jesus Christ.
"His ORIGIN (beginning/start) is from the days of old ,a long time ago ( the days of yore)"

If not because your brain is painning you.

Those phrases you used are the same as ETERNITY.

Nothing like BEGINNING IN ETERNITY

Oponu JaNosense

Aemmyjah:
If Emusan says
My wife and I are one
Does that mean you and your wife are the same person?

No!

Has anyone ever said Jesus and His Father are the SAME PERSON?

Remember Jesus prayed that his disciples should be one just as the father and himself are one and they be united into him and the father
If I follow your logic, then there's nothing to distinguish between the 12 since they're all one person

From where did you read it in my post that I'm trying to claim that Jesus and the Father are ONE PERSON?

MaxInDHouse:
Hmmmmmmmmm, you keep laying emphasis on Genesis 20:7.
OK, the Bible says Moses was God {Exodus 7:1} and Jesus was God {Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1} do you agree?
If you agree that both are Gods then i have no more to say on Abraham being a prophet!

Stop injecting your own delusion into Bible.

Bible never said Moses WAS GOD!

"Jehovah then said to Moses: “See, I have made you like God to Pharʹaoh, and Aaron your own brother will become your prophet." Exo 7:1 - NWT

This scripture is very self explanatory!

Lastly, later you will be arguing that JESUS IS NOT GOD!
BUT HERE YOU ARE CLAIMING THAT the Bible actually called Jesus GOD!

If Bible actually called Jesus God, does that not mean Jesus is GOD?

Petalss:
What kind of body did Jesus possess?

Glorified body!

The key idea I want to convey is that while God is immortal and eternal, Jesus, in his earthly existence, was a mortal being.

Absolutely because the human He came to rescue are MORTAL but remember the plan of God for human from beginning isn't to die while living in the same FLESH.

But that first body got corrupted and became mortal, but the resurrected body will take on immortality.

THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT JESUS CAME TO EARTH TO demonstrate

Petalss:
As human beings, our bodies die, but our spirits continue to live on. How does this differ from what happened to Jesus?

There's no different but the different is resurrection!

At resurrection those human spirit will received FLESH.

As demonstrated by Jesus resurrection!

CAPTIVATOR:
Almighty cannot have a God.

Jesus was a servant before humanity ( Isaiah 42:1)

Jesus is God Almighty who crated everything in the universe including YOU!

He was never Almighty at any point in History

Jesus has been Almighty before creation of time.

So you know Jesus himself admitted the Fact hide the date from him ? Matt 24:36

Lolzzzzzzzzzzzz

Just as Jesus admitted that Him and His Father ARE ONE! Which even your lie lie organization understood to be "ONE IN INTENT" which means even before the Father took the decision the Son already knows as well.

Olodo...

CAPTIVATOR:
The point is , he said " I was Dead"

Meaning he died. Which doesn't stop God from being wise while he was dead

Yes! He DIED, do you have problem with that?

And your point on the second part is?

"He emptied himself "

Died like a normal human. Suppose he wasn't ressurected, would have return to Dust

So, the SPIRIT BEING CALLED MICHAEL IN HEAVEN WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT SPIRIT BEING?

Thus the point stands. Christ being dead doesn't stop God from having knowledge, which he even used to ressurect the dead Jesus. Learn to think

That is to tell you that Jesus is Kore than just FLESH.

Jesus is the WISDOM OF YOUR GOD!

WITHOUT HIM YOUR GOD HAS NO WISDOM.

TemmyT002:
If Jesus is God, Jesus will not be praying to God na
Count how many times Jesus prayer in the Bible

You couldn't address any of my point.

But you agreed Jesus has ALL THE CHARACTERISTICS OF JEHOVAH GOD.

So, when will you take up the challenge I posed earlier?

TemmyT002:
The word 'God' is a title, like Lord, Chief, President, etc.
Jesus is a God. Even we are gods

Jesus created ALL THINGS

Do you create ANYTHING?

But Jesus is not Jehovah God.
He is the son of God who has all the characteristics of his father.

If you have ALL THE CHARACTERISTICS OF SOMEONE YOU ARE EQUALLY THE SAME AS THAT PERSON.

If you are in doubt, meet any elderly man in your area and tell him that sir, since I know you, I have noticed that you have ALL THE CHARACTERISTICS OF A GOAT

Come here and share your experience with us.

God cannot come down to die for the same people He created.

But it will be unjust to God to send another person to die for people He created.

Even in human court, no judge will ever try that. How come do you think the same God who always condemned injustice of man will do worst than man?.

CAPTIVATOR:
Mumu
" I was dead " - Jesus Christ, Rev 1:18

Who is the I ?

Jesus Christ!

Which means the same PERSON WHO DIED ON EARTH IS THE SAME TALKING IN HEAVEN.

Waooo I love that.

But the part you don't like in that verse 18 is this "I am THE LIVING ONE" God Almighty has been known for ages as only being who regards to be LIVING ONES.

But here Jesus reaffirm His ALMIGHTY statues.

Jesus was Dead, but God was still wise. Don't be stupid

The BODY DIED.

Spirit don't DIED.

YOU AGREE THAT JESUS WAS A SPIRIT BEING BEFORE COMING TO EARTH.

OPONU.....

CAPTIVATOR:
He was a servant before becoming Human, I hope you know ? And also after becoming human.

Isaiah 42:1 .

Jesus was never God Almighty at any point in history. There was always someone greater.

Jesus the Creator of you and EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE.

So, He is the Almighty God.

That's your problem, The Father didn't reveal the day and time to the Son is the TRUTH. Coming from Jesus himself. ( Matt 24:36) . He doesn't know

Lol.....after realized the gravity of that statement.

No! It's your problem because if the Father and Son are actually ONE IN INTENT then it means THERE'S NOTHING THE FATHER CAN HIDE FROM THE SON.

But what do you expect from a lying liar who claimed BIBLE CONTAINS CONTRADICTION and still using the other side of his empty brain to try to use the same contradicted book to proof nonsense.

KosiGee:
Oga this is not true. Did you believe that the man was beheaded and he bent and picked up his head and walked some kilometres before he slumped??

How was he beheaded? Was he standing up unrestrained? Was he not bound? Was he just standing still and the executioner swung the sword or axe and his head fell off and dropped?

Let’s assume he was courageously standing still while this happened, his head fell off, either rolled to some distance or dropped beside him!! Wow..😮 he knew exactly where it fell, went there or bent down, picked it up, continued on his evangelical mission before he fell!

Chai.

Since you decided to go into heavy assumption, then I'm happy to tell you that MIRACLES are never about assumptions.

Reason why many people won't believe, a man constructed wooden ships that houses all species of living things in the most heavy pound of wave that may ever be recorded on ocean. because the assumption are how can wooden ship stand against such heavy wave? Where was Lions kept? e.t.c

So, your assumptions are bases on human limited knowledge meanwhile miracle are ALWAYS BEYONG human limited knowledge.

The confusion started when you want MIRACLE to be explained using human limited knowledge.

Then how is it going to be a miracle?

Godwin4444:
oga y are u this dull?

Now, started their usual defense mechanism.

Are u in primary school?
Buhari was wise that he borrowed money to pay subsidy till last year June
He used oil wells n our collective natural resources to borrow money which he mismanaged

You keep changing mouth.

You wanted to pin this on the past leaders excluding Buhari as you mentioned people like TY Danjuma, Abacha, Obj, e.t.c

So, why dancing around?
Stay in one place to make your point.

You secondary school master.

Tinubu was forced to remove subsidy n float d naira with little or nowhere to borrow from n u expect things not to skyrocket

See another out of point statement.

Who told you that no one is ready to borrow Tinubu money?

How many has Tinubu borrowed within one year in office?

You're talking as if the same Tinubu didn't borrow kobo since he came on board.

I believe u heard what Messiah obi said in his interview, he said he will borrow more.

If you just heard that from Obi it means you didn't follow his campaign statement.

Obi has never against BORROWING and no one in the world will go against BORROWING.

The point you're deviating from is how Tinubu economy policies have pulled more people into poverty.

Which is not what he campaign with.

So what does that mean? We will keep borrowing to make d naira n economy stable till we have nowhere to borrow from again n everything explodes like what we have in Zimbabwe, Libya n South Sudan

The issue isn't about BORROWING my friend stop dancing around.

Many great leaders did extral ordinary things that is why people regards them as HERO!

So, if some leaders took up the mantle and their people feel the impact in positive way, it shows they know how to handle the situation.

Stop making excuses for failure.

I wish I could see u people, sit u down n explain things to u

Many of u don't even know what u argue about

I don't need that, the person in best position to be sat down and explain things to now is Baba Tinubu. Use your energy to find a day of round table talk with him.

If you sit me down, I can't apply your explanations to Nigeria problems.

Do u think obi is stupid to say he will borrow more?
Everything is empty n all those political class knows about it but u are here forming economic policies u know nothing about

No one has talk about Obi here, you're the one who brought him into this, why?

because your conscience is judging you.

Again, this issue never about BORROWING.

So after payment of subsidy stopped n naira got floated u expect prices to come down?

So he didn't know this when he made that pronouncement in Ogun state that he will bring the fuel pric0e down.

Show me where Tinubu ever make a statement about before or during campaign that, things will get worst if he can be given the opportunity to perform his economy policies before things start going in the right direction.

Since you brought Obi, I have a video of Obi during PDP congress with PDP BOT on sit and he told them frankly that NOTHING TO SHARE AGAIN IN THE COUNTRY, that if PDP thinks they need someone that will take power and begin to share money. They should forget it, there's nothing left in the country to share again. In fact in that video Obi talked about BORROWING and in his statement "NOTHING WRONG IN BORROWING" but what you uses the money you borrowed for is the key.

So, all the money Baba Tinubu has borrowed, what have they been used for?

I wish obi was d president n he uses that method of borrowing, I bet u people will cry more

Your wishes are irrelevant at this moment.

If you're actually serious about your wish, if Obi decided to run in 2027, take it up by campaign rigorously for him. At least you have seen best of the person you supported, so if you're actually for good governance and jot just for blind support, your perception should change coming next election.

Godwin4444:
u keep shouting Argentina

My simple question to u

Did Argentina experience people like
Abacha
T.y danjuma
Babangida
Obasanjo
N co?

There's no nation in earth that has once had a bad ruler.

So, cut that crab and face reality.

Many so called hero of their nations today did what many of their past leader failed to do.

For instance, if elder Tinubu has reduced inflation from 20 something percent he met it to less than 20% many of his critique would have kept silent and won many to his side.

Or even maintain it around that percentage the same could have happened but taken INFLATION rate to over 40% within 1 years shows how bad are his economy policies.

So, a good leader knows what to do balance economy or even improve it, we have example around the world.

So, saying some pasts people destroyed the country more than two decades ago isn't a good reason just excuses for steong failure.