₦airaland Forum

1. Write out the exact verse or verses you allege were deleted.

2. Provide names of adult males breastfed with evidence.

Abu Bakr did not burn his Quran but handed it over to Umar who handed it down to his daughter who was a wife of the prophet.

What he burnt were his collection of hadith and reason for this has been stated.

It is a well-known and recognised fact amongst the majority of the Muslim jurists (fuqaha) that suckling is not permitted after two (or 2 and a half) years, neither does it affect the rules of Hijab and marriage.

The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) quite clearly mentioned this in one Hadith where he said: “…suckling is only valid if it takes place in the suckling period.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, no. 2504 & Sahih Muslim, no. 1455). Providing this from the same line of hadith you refer strongly to.
The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) also said: “Suckling (radha’a) does not prohibit (i.e. marriage) except which penetrates the intestines (m: meaning which serves as a nourishment for the child) from the breasts, and it is prior to weaning.” (Recorded by Imam al-Tirmidhi in his Sunan, no. 1152)

You insist on hadith reports yet Abu Bakr burnt his own collection despite his closeness to the Prophet.

The prophet disliked and did not approve writing other than the Quran.

A lot of the hadith started getting collected a century after Prophet Muhammad had died. What is to be believed? the Prophet's rendition of what Allah revealed to him or what others who may over praise or mischievously say things that aren't true? More so considering the time lapse.

Salim's case is exceptional.

Salim (in this Hadith) is Salim ibn Ma’qal…Abu Hudhayfa had adopted him in accordance with the customs of the Arabs. He (Salim) had been brought up and raised by Abu Hudhayfa and his wife as their own son. When the verse of the Qur’an “Call them (your adopted children) by (the names of) their (real) fathers….”Surah al-Ahzab, V: 5) was revealed, the ruling of adopting children was abrogated (in that one can no longer consider an adopted son to be one’s own). However, Salim continued to reside and enter the house of Sahla (the wife of Abu Hudhayfa) as he was a minor. When he grew old and came close to puberty, both Abu Hudhayfa and Sahla disliked the idea of him entering freely upon Sahla, but they found it difficult to mention this to him, given the fact that he had lived with them (and was brought up by them), hence they asked the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) regarding this. The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said to Sahla: “Suckle him and you would become unlawful for him, and (the dislike) which Abu Hudhayfa feels in his heart will disappear” hence she suckled him and it so happened (i.e. the dislike of Abu Hudhayfa disappeared)…” (al-Mufhim lima Ashkal min talkhis Kitab Muslim, 4/186, Dar Ibn Kathir print)

The above clearly illustrates that Salim was adopted by Abu Hudhayfa and his wife Sahla. He had lived with them and was raised and brought up by them since childhood. However, Islam does not recognize legal adoption and a adopted child is not considered a real child, hence after reaching puberty, the rules of Hijab are applicable. It became very difficult for Salim to live with his adoptive mother due to this rule, thus the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) advised Sahla to make Salim drink her breast-milk, whereby the rules of Hijab would be lifted.

It is narrated in the Tabaqat of Ibn Sa’d and elsewhere that Sahla would pour her breast-milk into a utensil each day for five continuous days and Salim would drink from it. He did not directly drink from the breast of Sahla, as it is not permitted to expose one’s awra in front of a non-Mahram adult let alone have him suckled.

Thus, the objection raised by some non-Muslims that this was an immoral act has no significance, for Sahla did not directly suckle Salim, as he had reached puberty. Imam Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani (Allah have mercy on him) has also mentioned this in his al-Isaba fi tamiz al-Sahaba. (See: Tabaqat Ibn Sa’d, 8/271 & al-Isaba, 4/337)

What you highlighted in blue is in the Quran.

Call them by [the names of] their fathers; it is more just in the sight of Allah. But if you do not know their fathers - then they are [still] your brothers in religion and those entrusted to you. And there is no blame upon you for that in which you have erred but [only for] what your hearts intended. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.
Surah Al-Ahzab verse 5

Confirm this verse is in the Quran. Never deleted!

TenQ:
Is it true that one of the DELETED verse on breastfeeding adult men in the Qur'an is

Call them by (the name of) their fathers, that is juster in the sight of Allaah. And if ye know not their fathers, then (they are) your brethren in the faith and your clients.


No wonder, the Qur'an of Abu Bakr and the Qur'an of Uthman disappeared and totally vanished only to be replaced with a Narration


EVIDENCE :

Sunan Abi Dawud 2061
A’ishah wife of the Prophet(ﷺ) and Umm Salamah said “Abu Hudaifah bin ‘Utbah bin Rabi’ah bin ‘Abd Shams adopted Salim as his son and married him to his niece Hind, daughter of Al Walid bin ‘Utbah bin Rabi’ah. He (Salim) was the freed slave of a woman from the Ansar (the Helpers) as the Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ) adopted Zaid as his son. In pre Islamic days when anyone adopted a man as his son, the people called him by his name and he was given a share from his inheritance. Allaah, the Exalted, revealed about this matter Call them by (the name of) their fathers, that is juster in the sight of Allaah. And if ye know not their fathers, then (they are) your brethren in the faith and your clients. They were then called by their names of their fathers. A man, whose father was not known, remained under the protection of someone and considered brother in faith. Sahlah daughter of Suhail bin Amr Al Quraishi then came and said Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ), we used to consider Salim(our) son. He dwelled with me and Abu Hudhaifah in the same house, and he saw me in the short clothes, but Allaah the Exalted, has revealed about them what you know, then what is your opinion about him? The Prophet (ﷺ) said give him your breast feed. She gave him five breast feeds. He then became like her foster son. Hence, A’ishah(may Allaah be pleased with her) used to ask the daughters of her sisters and the daughters of her brethren to give him breast feed five times, whom A’ishah wanted to see and who wanted to visit her. Though he might be of age; he then visited her. But Umm Salamah and all other wives of the Prophet (ﷺ) refused to allow anyone to visit them on the basis of such breast feeding unless one was given breast feed during infancy. They told A’ishah by Allaah we do not know whether that was a special concession granted by the Prophet (ﷺ) to Salim exclusive of the people.

Here above is a much detailed and clearer hadith that explains the command of breastfeeding.

Note the verse deleted from the Qur'an highlighted in YELLOW!


Is the Hadith above a Fabrication?

Please tell me that the Hadith above is untrustworthy!



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Abū ʿAbd Allāh Muḥammad ibn Isḥāq ibn Yasār al-Muṭṭalibī; c. 704–767. This is over 60 years after the prophet died.


The Prophet did not want any documents circulating other than the words of Allah, including documents attributed to him. So how was Hadith recorded? And what is the hidden history of this documentation?

Sahih Muslim narrated on the authority of Abu Said Al Khudri, the prophet said “Don’t write about me and anything written about me other than in the Quran should be erased” and in the Sunnan of Al Tirmidhi also on the authority of Abu Said Al Khudri “We asked the Propher permission to write and he declined” and Ahmed Ibn Hanbal in his Musnad narrated from Abu Huraira said when the Prophet heard what they were writing he became angry and said “Books other than the book of God? Praise the book of God and be faithful to it”.

On the weakness of Hadith: Al Nawawi said “Abu Bakr Al Sadeek narrated one hundred and forty-two Hadith, Bukhari and Muslim agreed only on six of them, Bukhari verified eleven on his own and Muslim confirmed one Hadith.

If the closest companions (Sahabis) of the Prophet related so little from him as we have already pointed out, where did all the Hadith come from? All fingers point to Aisha? Or perhaps allegedly point to Aisha?


The Prophet did not want any documents circulating other than the words of Allah, including documents attributed to him. So how was Hadith recorded? And what is the hidden history of this documentation? In Sahih Muslim narrated on the authority of Abu Said Al Khudri, the prophet said “Don’t write about me and anything written about me other than in the Quran should be erased” and in the Sunnan of Al Tirmidhi also on the authority of Abu Said Al Khudri “We asked the Prophet permission to write and he declined” and Ahmed Ibn Hanbal in his Musnad narrated from Abu Huraira said when the Prophet heard what they were writing he became angry and said “Books other than the book of God? Praise the book of God and be faithful to it”.
Abu Huraira said we gathered everything we had written in one pile and set it on fire.

The thinker Ahmed Amin commented on this in his book “The dawn of Islam”: Some scholars wanted to reconcile the conflicting Hadith, They said it was forbidden to write them when the Quran came down for fear that the Qurran would be confused with the Hadith”.

On the weakness of Hadith: Al Nawawi said “Abu Bakr Al Sadeek narrated one hundred and forty-two Hadith, Bukhari and Muslim agreed only on six of them, Bukhari verified eleven on his own and Muslim confirmed one Hadith.
If the closest companions (Sahabis) of the Prophet related so little from him as we have already pointed out, where did all the Hadith come from? All fingers point to Aisha?

Abu Bakr burns the books of Hadith
There are numerous accounts in history books that suggest that the refusal to write Hadith continued after the death of the Prophet, during the reign of the Caliphs, weakening the argument that the Prophet changed his mind and permitted the writing of his words beyond the Quran. The first Caliph Abu Bakr forbade writing the Hadith. Aisha the wife of the prophet narrated in Abu Dhahbi’s “The memorial of the Hadith masters” that Abu Bakr collected 500 Hadith of the Prophet then after one night of torment, he asked her to tell him the Hadith she knew and she did and then he gathered them and burned them. Aisha asked him why did you burn them? And he said “I feared that I would die with these words on me and they would be full of his words that I trusted but it would transpire that it was not what he said and I would have relayed them incorrectly”.

The thirty-third chapter of the Qur'an, al-Ahzab, is alleged to have contained 200 or nearly 300 verses, all of which except 73 are said to have been lost. The claim of 200 verses is attributed to Ummu 'l-mu'minin, 'A'ishah. "It has been narrated by Abu 'Ubayd in al-Fada'il and by Ibn al-Anbari and Ibn Mardawayh from Aishah that she said, 'The surah al-Ahzab was recited in the days of the Prophet two hundred verses, but when 'Uthman wrote the Qur'an, he was unable to find more than what is there at present." 1 Now there are only 73 verses in this surah.

Hudhayfah is said to claim that 70 verses of this chapter were lost.2 But Ubayy ibn Ka'b is made to say that this surah was equal to, or even bigger than the second chapter al-Baqarah.3 Also, 'Ikrimah (a tabi'i, disciple of the companions) has reportedly said the same.4 Now the chapter al-Baqarah contains 286 verses. It means accordingly that 213 or even more verses were lost, including the verse of stoning.

2. The ninth chapter, at-Tawbah: It is alleged that two-thirds or three-fourths of this surah has been lost. This report is attributed to Hudhayfah al-Yamani.5 Imam Malik ibn Anas was asked as to why there is no "Bismillah" in this surah. He said, "It was lost with its earlier parts, because it is confirmed that it was equal to surah al-Baqarah in length."6
But there are only 129 verses in this surah of the Qur'an.

3. Then come the putetic surahs of al-Hafd and al-Khal' which were recorded by such famous companions as Ubayy ibn Ka'b and Abu Musa al-Ash'ari7 and which the caliph Umar ibn al-Khattab used to recite in his qunut.8 The surahs were as follows:

This English booklet is not the place to show the absurdity of the sentences in these alleged surahs. Some grammatical mistakes in them clearly show that the people who fabricated them did not know Arabic well. And these incorrect sentences have been attributed to such Arab companions as Hazrat Umar, Ubayy ibn Ka'b and Abu Musa al-Ash'ari!

Anyone interested to see the mistakes and absurdities of these supposed surahs, is advised to see my Arabic booklet Nazaratun Musta'jilah fi mas'alati Tahrifi 'l-Qur'an or better still, Shaykh Muhammad Jawad al-Balaghi's Ala'u 'r-Rahman fi Tafsiri 'l-Qur'an (vol. 1 [Beirut], pp. 23-24).

The Qur'an does not in any place order that adulterers be stoned, rather their prescribed punishment is being whipped 100 times (24:2). The ulamaa', however, are unanimous in their opinion that the penalty for married men or women who commit adultery is to be stoned to death.
This discrepancy is explained by the hadith as due to the loss of this verse in the Qur'an to a hungry goat which ate the page upon which it was preserved. In point of fact, the Islamic legal tradition largely took form in Iraq, where there was a very large, old and well established school of Jewish halacha or religious law. The prescribed punishment for adultery in the halachah is stoning to death (based on Deuteronomy 23:23-24 and extended by the rabbis to include all cases of adultery) and it is likely that Islamic scholars working in the 8th and 9th century in Iraq were influenced by Jewish law to include this more strict punishment, which was not practiced by the believers of Muhammad's time and the first century of his movement. The hadith about the goat eating the verse from the Qur'an, then, is likely a fabrication (as are the vast majority of hadith, which cannot be reliably traced in most cases to before the beginning of the 8th century) and an excuse to include this punishment in the shari'ah even though it is not found in the Qur'an. As if to underline the point, many of the hadith that record Muhammad ordering stoning include the detail that the men being stoned were Jewish.

The hadith you state originated from Aaisha was narrated by Muhammad ibn Ishaaq. His version says: The verse of stoning and breastfeeding of an adult ten times was revealed, and it was written on a leaf that was kept beneath a bed in my [‘Aa’ishah’s] house. When the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) fell sick, we were preoccupied with his situation, and a little animal of ours came in and ate it.

This was narrated by Imam Ahmad in al-Musnad (43/343), and Ibn Maajah in as-Sunan (no. 1944); the latter version says: When the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) died, we were preoccupied with his death, and a tame sheep came in and ate it.

As you can see, this version does mention the odd phrase that is additional to what was narrated by the two great imams, Yahya ibn Sa‘eed al-Ansaari and Maalik ibn Anas (may Allah have mercy on them both). In this version of the hadith it says that a tame sheep – which is a sheep that people feed in their homes – came in and ate the page that contained the verse of stoning and the verse of breastfeeding an adult.

This difference was sufficient for the scholars of hadith to rule that the version narrated by Muhammad ibn Ishaaq was da‘eef (weak), and that it was to be rejected and regarded as odd. In their view, the odd hadith is any hadith in which a trustworthy narrator differed with that which was narrated by other trustworthy narrators who were more accurate than him in the narration or were greater in number.

TenQ:
EVIDENCES

Who Deleted the verse of Adult Breastfeeding in the Quran?

Here you will see the reason why Muslims are reluctant to use the Quran of Mohammed or the Quran of Abu Bakr or the Quran of Uthman or their copies as the basis for the modern Quran: rather, they ignored all these to use a RECITATION of Hafs who lived 150 years after Mohammed and according to muslims a renown liar!

Note: All Quoted hadiths are Sahih (AUTHENTIC)

Facts:
1. The Almighty Allah revealed in the Quran verses where a Woman can Breastfeed a grown up man TEN and later FIVE times so that the man can become part of her family.

Sunan an-Nasa'i 3307: Book 26, Hadith 112
It was narrated that 'Aishah said:
"One of the things that Allah, the Mighty and Sublime, revealed" -(one of the narrators) Al-Harith said (in his narration): "One of the things that were revealed in the Qur'an"- "was that ten known breast-feedings make marriage prohibited, then that was abrogated and changed to five known breast-feedings. Then the Messenger of Allah passed away when this was something that was still being recited in the Qur'an."

Allah himself revealed the verse of breastfeeding in the Original Quran

2. Breastfeeding an adult less than FIVE times does not prevent marriage between the adult man and the woman who breastfeeds the man.

Sunan Ibn Majah 1940: Book 9, Hadith 96
It was narrated that Umm Fadl said:
that the Messenger of Allah said: “Breastfeeding once or twice, or suckling once or twice, does not make (marriage) unlawful.”

Meaning that Vanessa7 can lawfully suckle her husband's friend as long as it is not up to 5 or 10 times

3. The Verses of TEN or FIVE Breastfeeding was FRAUDULENTLY reported to be later abrogated (as it was a shameful practice as Islam expanded outside Arabia) but it wasn't truly abrogated by Allah.
Sunan Ibn Majah 1942: Book 9, Hadith 98
It was narrated that 'Aishah said:
“Once of the things that Allah revealed in the the Qur'an and then abrogated was that nothing makes marriage prohibited except ten breastfeedings or five well-known (breastfeedings).”

How do we know that the Verse wasn't Abrogated by Mohammed or Allah?

Sunan Ibn Majah 1944: Book 9, Hadith 100
It was narrated that 'Aishah said:
“The Verse of stoning and of breastfeeding an adult ten times was revealed and the paper was with me under my pillow. When the Messenger of Allah died, we were preoccupied with his death, and a tame sheep came in and ate it.”

You will note that the Verses were NOT abrogated as at the time of the Death of Mohammed. The Question we want to ask Muslims is who abrogated this verse?

4. The Law of Breastfeeding Applies to Adult Males and not strictly Babies
Sunan Ibn Majah 1943: Book 9, Hadith 99
It was narrated that 'Aishah said:
“Sahlah bint Suhail came to the Prophet and said: 'O Messenger of Allah, I see signs of displeasure on the face of Abu Hudhaifah when Salim enters upon me.” The Prophet said: “Breastfeed him.” She said: “How can I breastfeed him when he is a grown man? The Messenger of Allah smiled and said: “I know that he is a grown man.” So she did that, then she came to the Prophet and said: “I have never seen any signs of displeasure on the face of Abu Hudhayfah after that.” And he was present at (the battle of) Badr.

An important point about Rida’ al-Kabir (breastfeeding adult males) is that in order for a strange man and a woman to get Mahram, a skin contact needs to be established first between them and that such a practice is Haram (unlawful) as a matter of fact.

al-‘Allaamah Muhammad ibn Ishaaq was accused of tadlees (deliberately using ambiguous words in order to mislead)

He was mentioned by Ibn Hajar in the fourth level of those who used tadlees, in Maraatib al-Mudalliseen (p. 51).

Hanbal ibn Ishaaq said: I heard Abu ‘Abdullah say: The narration of Ibn Ishaaq cannot be used as proof.
‘Abdullah ibn Ahmad said: He – i.e., Ahmad ibn Hanbal – did not use his reports as evidence when discussing what is Sunnah.
Ayyoob ibn Ishaaq said: I asked Ahmad ibn Hanbal: O Abu ‘Abdullah, if Ibn Ishaaq is the only narrator of the hadith, will you accept it? He said: No, by Allah, for I have seen him putting together the words of many narrators in a single hadith, and not separating the narration of one person from that of another.
The commentators on the Musnad of Imam Ahmad said (about the given hadith narration):
Its isnaad is da‘eef because the only one who narrated it was Muhammad ibn Ishaaq, and its text contains something odd.

Note that many narrations show that there was no "breastfeeding" of adults, but the mother milk was milked and then consumed by an adult from a vessel.

Imaam Muslim narrated that Umm Salamah, the wife the Prophet used to say that all the wives of the Prophet disclaimed the idea of letting someone enter upon them through this kind of breastfeeding, and they said to ‘Aa’isha, “By Allah, we do not find this but a concession given by the Prophet only for Saalim, and no one is to enter upon us or see us through such breastfeeding.”

TenQ:
But the evidence is staring you glaringly on your face!
SMH!

Why did you chicken out!?



Again before you.

Tell me this is untrue!