₦airaland Forum

DapoBear:
But it is implied that the tolerance is only due to the threat of violence. They don't call him mallam in PH because he will kick their @ss if they do. But he knows better than to do that in Lagos.

The man is saying that in Port Harcourt everybody is to themselves and do not support people based on ethnic sentiments alone, whereas Lagos people will support their ethnic members no matter what they did. You wouldn't get it because you're actually one of those Lagos people (who are full up on this forum). Don't worry if you don't get it, 'Eastern' civility isn't for everyone.

As if Lagos people fight one on one.

Shall Ngwa and Aro never know peace between each other?

vicenzo:
Are there indigenious igbo people in benue,akwaibom and cross river states

Old news.

You people are wicked though!

ChinenyeN:
Well, that's not what they felt when they were merrily raiding "fellow Igbo" communities.

I know of villages that had members who went to war with/raided the other part of their own village.

babapupa:
You people re retards I swear. So people need invitation to comment on a PUBLIC forum? Who the hell are you to tell people where to post and not to post?  Are you mad or it's the ever present ibo delusions that's troubling your head? Look here dumbo, not a single topic on NL id tagged "ibo only" thread.

As suggested before, take your a/ss to ibo kwenu and have a good you a good time, you sure wont see me there.


Abeg get out of my face,

alj harem:
can u explain how,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,is he lying

because he care, he is telling u facts

I'm still wandering why you lunatics are in a thread about people you supposedly don't care about. What is eating you people up inside? This is so sad. Get help. Look at how you're disgracing yourselves.

babapupa:
Ode buruku. Shouldn't I be asking you the same question and why you are not on Igbo kwenu spitting your rubbish to your ibo kinsmen.? Trust me, you wont find
my a/ss over thre.


Buzz off jare,

Look at how your just embarrassing yourself on the internet. Somebody made a thread on Igbo topics and yourself which does not want anything to do with the Igbo, apparently, entered the discussion uninvited. It's only because there's no such thing as rules on this 'forum'.

excanny:
Only the Aros should apologize to all Igbos for the atrocities of the slave trade committed against their own brothers.

No, what about the slave traders of all the Igbo towns and villages. What about the infamous Aboh? What about the Onicha and Asaba slave markets? What about all those who actually received money from the Aro for slaves?

There's a thread on the culture section with pictures.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-194030.32.html

It's now completed.

You can now visit the museum if you're in Virginia.

I posted this before. Igbo people should read it in particular.

Denial of Igbo identity is dying. Fast.

60,000 views?

babapupa:
Ode, this is a freeking public forum, not Igbo forum.

And the only cowards I know are Zik and Ojukwu, at least according to our history.

What are you actually doing in this thread? What kind of embarrassment is this?

If this is built, along with the new airport (it is completed), Enugu will become a major urban centre in Africa. It would have been more exciting if it was the existing (heavy) railways that were being repaired and upgraded.

Is it like this:
[center]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/TamaToshiMonorail6061.jpg/500px-TamaToshiMonorail6061.jpg

or more like this:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/06/WDW_Monorail.jpg/500px-WDW_Monorail.jpg[/center]

All this from somebody who is supposedly in "God's palm".

PhysicsQED:
[/quote]1. How could you write all that and not give me a link or something for Igala Yoruba language similarity?

2. I have not claimed that the Yoruba came out of the Igala, even though I'm going to say that I don't deny the possibility.

3. I didn't get my story from wikipedia and so there was no substitution.

4. [quote author=PhysicsQED link=topic=553371.msg7199078#msg7199078 date=1290499039]I'm sorry but this particular argument is just ridiculous to me. There is a world of difference between saying that Han Chinese, like all other humans, were descended from groups of migratory East Africans at one point who survived and reproduced at a greater rate than various other groups far away and stating that Chinese came from Japanese, Koreans, or Vietnamese or smaller peoples around them. Your claim of Igala origin for Yorubas is clearly along the lines of the latter, not the former. Who would believe that a people moved only a short distance away to one area and obtained a birth rate 18 times (!) (actually not necessarily 18 times at all, but many times more) what they previously had and suddenly somehow showed evidence of habitation of their new area far earlier than the people/area they had originated from showed evidence of habitation of their area even though they were supposed to have been migrating and the other group they supposedly originated from was supposed to have been sedentary by then?. The dates at which the migration from near the Niger-Benue confluence area to the the south are long after those areas had already shown evidence of habitation. At best, migrations from the Niger-Benue confluence region of a common ancestral Kwa speaking group whose languages had recently diverged from the Niger-Benue confluence region infused other southern areas with more population and displaced some speakers of other Kwa languages. If you had said something reasonable like this then I wouldn't even have bothered to discuss it. But the oversized population of the Yorubas relative to the Igala and their close proximity and similarity of language culture (in the general West African sense) is indeed good reason not to suppose they didn't descend from, but rather diverged from a parent group with the Igalas. You seem to have failed to grasp the difference between diverging from a away from a larger group with "descending from" a group coequal to, or possibly even smaller than you, in such a group.   You could argue that once the previously East Africans ancestors of Chinese got to Asia and after becoming a different people, developed different characteristics that account for their greater reproduction rate even when not living at a greater level of development/sustenance than others. You absolutely could not do the same for two African groups at equal parity in population at one point or with the later larger group even much smaller with only a slight (relatively) geographical separation and no enormous change in the innate character of one group.

A good example is Spain and the Latin American countries. They greater birth rate of many of these Latin countries compared to Spain (from which they get the Caucasian part of their mestizo descent from) is due to their being developing countries, and having a very different culture (i.e. behavior) than their European counterparts. You cannot say the same about Yoruba and Igala without concocting ridiculous theories about monumental changes in every aspect of the behavioral habits of Yorubas relative to the Igalas after ancestors supposed descent from them and movement a (geographically) small distance away.

I still don't understand why the Igala couldn't have produced the Yoruba. Size is not a reliable thing to look at otherwise some proven theories of origin must have been miracles like the native peoples of those Indian islands. How many original groups have been wiped away?

And 5.

PhysicsQED:
And yeah, let's forget. I don't see why you, and a few other people, are so eager to claim relations to groups (Bini, Igala) you know so little about. Later.

No one is claiming you people (except the Igala who Nri founded) because Edo and Igbo are related anyway and you don't know how much I know about any group.

Abagworo:
Most of the books written by neutral people are usually opposed by Nigerians.One thing I dont get is why there is a belief that neutral history seem to portray Igbos in a way unacceptable to other Nigerians but popular among igbos.

It's really hard to hold back sometimes. The rubbish too much.

Abagworo:
Let us assume that Obi of Owa had not written this book.Agbotaen's comments indicate that by the next generation there might be complete erasure of the true Nri ancestry and false but deliberate replacement by Benin.

You know Africa is a very 'spiritual' place, and no matter what your beliefs are, strange things happen. I'd like to see where the people who will deliberately throw their ancestors names out will end up. That's all.

Wow, certain members have gone very silent after I posted the book page. The irony is that the book was published by UNIBEN.

End of origin debate.

PhysicsQED:
^^^^

I haven't seen where the Igala historians themselves ever claimed descent of their kings from Nri. Seems more than likely that Dr. Ehret took the Igbo histories on good faith and ascribed the claim to the Igala when it originated from Igbo history. I hope you do know the Igala are widely held by historians, anthropologists, linguists, etc. to be most closely related to the Yorubas (you won't find any contradiction to this, note that I said widely held, not one or two counterclaims), not any other group, so the statement that their kings were descended from this or that kingdom would not even imply that they were actually descended from the people of that kingdom (just as the Itsekiris are not descended from Binis merely because their kings are). I simply haven't seen anything in Igala oral or written history from Igalas that claimed they were from Igbos. The one thing which cannot be disputed is that most of the Igala kings have "Igboid" sounding names and one is even named Ebele, so there is an enormous rationale for them going along with the claim that their kings are descend from Nri and I wouldn't actually dispute that they are (but once again, similarity in names between Igala and Igbo could just imply common ancestry, which we know they do have). What I said was that I don't see any claims from the actual Igalas themselves that say so.

I don't really care if a random Igala website claims they're from some place else, most of these kingdoms websites of Nigeria exaggerate and put up false claims anyway, I look at their claims and put it against well researched facts and they don't match. Anyway, what Igala historians do you read, what Atta have you interviewed?

PhysicsQED:
I hope you do know the Igala are widely held by historians, anthropologists, linguists, etc. to be most closely related to the Yorubas (you won't find any contradiction to this, note that I said widely held, not one or two counterclaims), not any other group, so the statement that their kings were descended from this or that kingdom would not even imply that they were actually descended from the people of that kingdom (just as the Itsekiris are not descended from Binis merely because their kings are).

No, I don't know, back it up.

PhysicsQED:
Seems more than likely that Dr. Ehret took the Igbo histories on good faith and ascribed the claim to the Igala when it originated from Igbo history.

Yes, Christopher Ehret was at a beer parlour one day and picked up the information there?

Books are researched, that's the reason not everyone gets published because you have to back your claims. 

and they continued to be enthroned by Nri ritual experts right down to the early twentieth century.

You think he wrote that from word of mouth and "Igbo histories on good faith"? A veteran African historian who knows more about African history than anyone on this site?

PhysicsQED:
I could certainly be wrong, but I don't see any evidence from Dr. Ehret's neat little summary that contradicts what I originally said since he seems to have a penchant for not giving references (at least in that book, I'm sure he has references at the end of chapters and direct references in his published papers).

Christopher Ehret is a Professor of African History that has had published books since the 1970s on African history. Maybe when you're published on James Currey.

PhysicsQED:
(which originates from [b]Western Igbo[/b]s, not Igalas, unless, as I said, you can offer any evidence otherwise)

Wikipedia?

PhysicsQED:
after claiming Igala are descendants of Western Igbo migrants

PhysicsQED:
it claims Yorubas are descendants of Igalas that continued migrating westwards.

You definitely clicked on the wrong link.

PhysicsQED:
Population of Igalas: 2 million. Population of Yorubas: more than 35 million (actually much more in the African diaspora). I hope you can see the problem with such claims.

I don't even understand this. So the logic here is that the original group has to be larger than the groups it produced or even a certain size? I don't know where you got this from, but from this logic it would be impossible for the Han Chinese to have descended from any other group or for all those migrating human groups to have come from small groups of families, I'm not looking at this any more because it's just wrong.

PhysicsQED:
Wherever the Yorubas originate from, it is more likely to be from somewhere in northeastern Yorubaland than Igalaland. What scholars have learned is that yes, from linguistic evidence, there appear to be migrations from the area near the southern central middle belt to the South west and Midwest

Yoruba people claim that they came from the east. Or do professors win on this occasion and not traditional history?

PhysicsQED:
but the idea that the Yoruba+Itsekiri+Edo originated from the Igala, even with the famines the Igalas went through in their history explaining  their low modern population, is implausible on numbers alone.

Doesn't make any sense at all, wouldn't famine make people move into more fertile areas. Anyway, forget.

ChinenyeN:
Honestly, I'm not going to lie, this was my actual thought, because I mean, let's all be real here. Nri is held as connotatively being parallel to, if not the defining measure of "Igbo". I'd bet you have an understanding of what I mean by saying that, and that's why I made the below statement.

I can understand, anyway 'ignorant' wasn't meant as an insult but for its true meaning. Eri, the father of Nri, was someone who modified an Igbo culture that was already existing before the kingdom, from archaeology this culture actually originated somewhere between Nsukka and Okigwe. The word Igbo is said to be older than Eri.

ROSSIKE:
'How Yoruba and Igbo became different languages'

All languages split from each other just like all human cultures split from each other.

PhysicsQED:
Never seen a reference to it in Igala history, but I'd be happy to read one.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0K0p8wCNKTQC&pg=PA316&dq=%22the+kings+of+the+Igala+claimed+descent+from+the+Nri+of+Igbo-Ukwu%22&hl=en&ei=-l7pTP7sGI20hAfXvJ0P&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22the%20kings%20of%20the%20Igala%20claimed%20descent%20from%20the%20Nri%20of%20Igbo-Ukwu%22&f=false

Written by a true Igbo man, Christopher Ehret.

[center][img]http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/history/ehret/ehret.jpg[/img][/center]

PhysicsQED:
Although I will at this point assume you've concocted the U-turn theory just to annoy me for your amusement and stop debating this stuff in this thread.

I think you already knew this but wanted a debate anyway, say the truth.

But, anyway:

Benin traditions of the past few centuries claim Yoruba origins for their ruling family, but it appears from archeological evidence and sixteenth-century written documentation that the actual impetus for the establishment of the kingdom came from the north, most probably from the Igala.

[url=http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0K0p8wCNKTQC&pg=PA316&dq=%22Benin+traditions+of+the+past+few+centuries+claim+Yoruba+origins+for+their+ruling+family,+but+it+appears+from+archeological+evidence+and+sixteenth-century+written+documentation+that+the+actual+impetus+for+the+establishment+of+the+kingdom+came+from+the+north,+most+probably+from+the+Igala.%22&hl=en&ei=m2DpTMPRJ9KGhQeKsvQQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22Benin%20traditions%20of%20the%20past%20few%20centuries%20claim%20Yoruba%20origins%20for%20their%20ruling%20family%2C%20but%20it%20appears%20from%20archeological%20evidence%20and%20sixteenth-century%20written%20documentation%20that%20the%20actual%20impetus%20for%20the%20establishment%20of%20the%20kingdom%20came%20from%20the%20north%2C%20most%20probably%20from%20the%20Igala.%22&f=false]Link[/url]

I even partly guessed this thing as a joke.

ROSSIKE:
Africans ARE a single nation with a common ancestor/history/culture.

No they are not. If they are then the whole world is a single nation, let's adopt a world language.

ROSSIKE:
You'd be surprised at the linguistic congruences among African languages. Taken holistically they could well be described as dialects of a common language system, which isn't far from the truth.

Example: Yorubas greet 'Eka-abo'
Ghanaians greet: 'Akwa aba'

Igbos call water ''Miri''

Yorubas call water ''O-mi''

Hundreds of other examples exist of this sort of language congruence throughout the continent.

A lot of the 'differences' are in European introduced syntax and other slight culture-specific variation - but it's obvious that our languages spring from a common ancient language system.

All language come from one ancient language. A few words don't mean the languages are brothers, otherwise from Mandarin 'Shi' meaning stop I would say that Igbo is its relative because stop in Igbo is 'Kushi', same with the Japanese village called Asaba and the Japanese name Azuka and the French 'Moi' and Igbo 'Muwa'.

igbobuigbo:
There are newspaper reports from the NDLEA to that effect. A few things were clear from summarizing those reports
1. Ekiti is number one in growing drugs
2. Kano is number one in consumption
3. Igbos are number one in trafficking

Like Kola Nut, The Yoruba grow it, the Igbo trade it and the Hausa consume it.