₦airaland Forum

"IBB is the problem of this country" -Bola Tinubu, June 3, 1998.

"I will never associate myself with IBB in my life" -Bisi Akande, April 5,1996.

“We need to pick the brains of former rulers in this country in order to be wiser than we were before we came here" - Chief Bisi Akande and Asiwaju Bola Tinubu, November 12, 2013 shortly after meeting with IBB. - Mustapha Dapo.

Politics in Nigeria is a strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. The conduct of public affairs for private advantage.

Lincoln burrows: What do u mean by spiritual atheist. It's either you are an atheist or u are theist. If u believe in all those shit by ghostofsparta, then u are a pagan. So many confused folks around.

You dont know there is spiritual atheist? Pls go and learn more

i think it is better to leave those who are fault finders to their own puzzles

macof: As I have said before u need Orunmila to guide u into knowledge and understanding. Because u lack both of those

bring up more verse. I have already dealt with this one, Israel's God is weak outside mountain areas

People like this need Eshu lalu Ogirioko.

NativeBoy: Hahahaha. You're too much friend.

Everything you mentioned: chronology, historicity, numbers and logistics, we can assess their accuracy based on archaeological findings. That is how we know what we know of the ancient world: archaeology.

Dating was based on bible.

In any case, here is what you asked for. Straight from Wikipedia I should add:

El Shaddai (Hebrew: אל שדי, IPA: [el ʃadːaj]) is one of the Judaic names of God, with its etymology coming from the influence of the Ugaritic religion upon modern Judaism. Shaddai was one of the many Gods in Canaanite religion. El Shaddai is conventionally translated as God Almighty. While the translation of El as "god" in Ugarit/Canaanite language is straightforward, the literal meaning of Shaddai is the subject of debate.

[b]Another theory is that Shaddai is a derivation of a Semitic stem that appears in the Akkadian shadû ("mountain" and shaddā`û or shaddû`a ("mountain-dweller", one of the names of Amurru. This theory was popularized by W. F. Albright[citation needed] but was somewhat weakened when it was noticed[by whom?] that the doubling of the medial d is first documented only in the Neo-Assyrian period. However, the doubling in Hebrew might possibly be secondary. According to this theory, God is seen as inhabiting a mythical holy mountain, a concept not unknown in ancient West Asian mythology (see El), and also evident in the Syriac Christian writings of Ephrem the Syrian, who places Eden on an inaccessible mountaintop.

The term may mean "God of the mountains," referring to the Mesopotamian divine mountain.[3] The term was one of the patriarchal names for the tribal god of the Mesopotamians.[3] In Exodus 6:3, El Shaddai is identified explicitly with the God of Abraham and with YHWH.[3] The term appears chiefly in the Torah. This could also refer to the Israelite camp's stay at Mount Sinai where God gave Moses the Ten Commandments.[/b]

I hope this should suffice.

I bet you read the bold. And who translated shaddai to mean mighty? Everyone know El mean god....pls provide the etymology of Shaddai. And from what we got from the bold, it mean mountains.

dragunov: . FOLAKEEEEE! You have come again with your mumbo jumbo

Get the hell behind me dragon

macof: you read not to understand

Joshua 11:2-3 states that Israel's enemies lived both on mountains and around mountains.

Joshua 17: 16 states that the children of Joseph were not confident because the hills were not enough

Joshua 2:9 states that Joshua was buried in the mount of Ephraim close to the hill of gaash. Moses also disappeared/died on a mountain.

Did not hesitate to check those verses. Bros your smackdown skill is epic. Good job

NativeBoy: Excellent use of Wikipedia. But what you have put forward offers no evidence at all. What you have put forward is that because archaeology hasn't discovered anything that means that it doesn't exist. Essentially, you have said that the absence of evidence is evidence of absence. You know, many took that same position about the universe having a beginning, the existence of Pontus Pilate, the existence of King David, etc. Well, eventually the truth came out.

Please just google El Shaddai and see that it also holds the translation "God Almighty." As I clearly pointed out, you need to read the whole thing in context. As Joshua proclaimed God already told them to take the land despite their concern of iron chariots. As the other scripture I provided, the Israelites became chicken. They didn't want to face the remaining Canaanite tribes. Then as the last scripture I provided, God declares that he will not drive out the Canaanites because of their unbelief. A common theme in the bible.

You know what is also interesting is that archaeologists are humans like you and I and they have bias. Many set out on their expeditions to ensure that they undermine scripture. It matters not though because the truth will prevail. Just like when evidence started pouring in the 60s that the universe had a beginning. The many scientists in the American and British science societies were furious because they knew it would further lend credence to the Bible. Imagine that.

Your ignorance really is hell. You are far from redemption. Gaddem.

Is it only Archaeology evidence you see there? What about Chronology, Numbers and logistics, Historicity, dating and many others included there? Why cant you just take your time, read through the post and the attached link, ignite your brain, reason and make conclusion?

Pls bring out your evidence that El-shaddai mean Almighty God. All this cheap talk and rant is baseless.

Christianity is a reformed politized paganism. And Yahweh is the Idol of the Hills. Evidence here https://www.nairaland.com/1508769/christians-god-idol-hills

Adding to the Red sea fable...

Chronology

The chronology of the Exodus story likewise underlines its essentially religious rather than historical nature.


Date

The Seder Olam Rabbah(ca. 2nd century CE) determines the commencement of the Exodus to 2448 AM (1313 BCE). This date has become traditional in Rabbinic Judaism. [ 36 ]
1 Kings 6:1 states that the Exodus occurred 480 years before the construction of Solomon's Temple, which would imply an Exodus c.1446 BCE, during Egypt's Eighteenth Dynasty. [ 37 ] By the mid-20th century it had become apparent that the archaeological record made this date impossible: Egyptian records of that period do not mention the expulsion of any group that could be identified with over two million Hebrew slaves, nor any events which could be identified with the Biblical plagues, and digs in the 1930s had failed to find traces of the simultaneous destruction of Canaanite cities c.1400 BCE — in fact many of them, including Jericho, the first Canaanite city to fall to the Israelites according to the Book of Joshua, were uninhabited at the time.

Your argument on Egypt and Red sea is locked as it have no historical base.

And where is the fact that the world was flooded? No evidence....the whole noah story is an allegory for theological purposes.

NativeBoy: The old Judges 1:19. I guess this was meant to catch me unawares as though I had not read the bible. This is a typical example of cherry-picking scripture. Perhaps you could read Joshua 11:1-9 and Joshua 17:14-19 and Judges 2:1-4. It is clear that they would have defeated the Canaanites as they had done earlier but they were afraid and decided not take them on. As a result of their unbelief, the Canaanite tribes remained in the land.

When I say you are completely ignorant, just accept that in shame and return to where you can study more bible more efficiently.

You were lying here that El-shaddai mean God Almighty while rather it mean God of the mountains. You were praising your deluded Yahweh over pagan Gods that he is stronger while your Yahweh cant defeat ordinary foot soldiers because he is impotent on plains except on hill countries and mountain. I added a link to help clear ignorance with knowledge installation and you are here yelling that I do cherry picking. Pls if you want to preach about marriage from the bible, do you go about quoting how Jesus heal miraculously? You went far accusing me because truth is damn bitter.

Base on the premises we are on this thread, we are discussing about Yahweh potential and stronghold comparing it to Pagan Gods. Yahweh is the idol of the hill and the bible attest to this. That was why I quoted judge 1:19. Read it clearly:

Judges 1:19
King James Version (KJV)
19 And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

^^^^the red part is the clear evidence that Yahweh is strong just like other Pagan Gods in a designated field. Because he is the god of hills.

NativeBoy: I sincerely hope you aren't consciously trying to distort scripture. Were Israel on the hill when the Red Sea was parted? Or when Egypt was afflicted with multiple plagues? How about when the entire earth was flooded?

Is it Egypt, Moses and the crossing of Red sea you want to bring about? Sorry such incident didn't happen. Here is prove from wikipedia :

THE EXODUS

Historicity

The consensus among biblical scholars today is that there was never any exodus of the proportions described in the Bible, [ 14 ]and that the story is best seen as theology, a story illustrating how the God of Israel acted to save and strengthen his chosen people, and not as history. [ 10 ]Nevertheless, the discussion of the historical reality of the exodus has a long history, and continues to attract attention.


Numbers and logistics

According to Exodus12:37-38, the Israelites numbered "about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides women and children," plus many non-Israelites and livestock. [ 15 ] Numbers1:46 gives a more precise total of 603,550 men aged 20 and up. [ 16 ]The 600,000, plus wives, children, the elderly, and the "mixed multitude" of non-Israelites would have numbered some 2 million people, [ 17 ]compared with an entire Egyptian population in 1250 BCE of around 3 to 3.5 million. [ 18 ]Marching ten abreast, and without accounting for livestock, they would have formed a line 150 miles long. [ 19 ]
No evidence has been found that indicates Egypt ever suffered such a demographic and economic catastrophe or that the Sinai desert ever hosted (or could have hosted) these millions of people and their herds.


Archaeology

A century of research by archaeologists and Egyptologists has found no evidence which can be directly related to the Exodus captivity and the escape and travels through the wilderness, [ 3 ]and most archaeologists have abandoned the archaeological investigation of Moses and the Exodus as "a fruitless pursuit". [ 4 ]A number of theories have been put forward to account for the origins of the Israelites, and despite differing details they agree on Israel's Canaanite origins. [ 24 ]The culture of the earliest Israelite settlements is Canaanite, their cult-objects are those of the Canaanite god El, the pottery remains in the local Canaanite tradition, and the alphabet used is early Canaanite, and almost the sole marker distinguishing the "Israelite" villages from Canaanite sites is an absence of pig bones, although whether even this is an ethnic marker or is due to other factors remains a matter of dispute

Red sea is fable

NativeBoy: I will stick to facts while you and Macof are more than welcome to your name-calling. I guess that might convince someone.

2 Corinthians 11:6
King James Version (KJV)

6 But though I be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge; but we have been throughly made manifest among you in all things.

Truth is scary and bitter when swallow. Yahweh is an Idol of the hills

macof: The guy reads his bible but the Holy spirit is too useless and impotent to make him understand anything. thats wat u get for letting an unseen spirit think for u

being waiting for him to prove to me the comforter jesus referred to is paul and not holy spirit. I am thinking he ran away just like truthislight

macof: yes pagan gods have restrictions. A mountain God like Yahweh has little power in the thick Forest.

Lol u always make me laugh, all ur knowledge is about Bible, yet u don't even know the Bible properly.

Shaddai(shaddu/shadda) means mountain dweller,
In another close context of the name "Shad" means one of the breast "shadayim" means breasts, which is a sign of fertility

In no way is "Shaddai" meaning Almighty. King James is either a big liar or a man full of erroneous translations.

King of the universe in canaanite spirituality is "El elyon"

You might not know this but Moses taught the Israelis to recognize the "Elohim" as one body. So at times names of other Gods might be attached to El Shaddai

The guy ignorance is alarming. He swallowed all the lies he was feed with. Even a day old baby knows what it not good for body. His brain is entirely manipulated with programmed lies. He want to deny Yahweh isn't god of the hills when every evidence is there in the bible

NativeBoy: So pagan gods have weaknesses in certain areas. Why worship them?

Yes, El-Shaddai is one of the names of the God of the bible but there are tons of other names as well. Such as Melech Haolam: king of the universe. Also El-Shaddai means God Almighty.

Quit dishonesty. Can you fly a ship which is purposed for moving water?

Yahweh is the God of hills and El-shaddai means God of the mountains (rock could also symbolize strength and destruction)

Your God was defeated in judge 1:19 by mere human when they fought on the plain/valley because he is powerless there but do greatly on mountains and hills.

Pls go and study your bible very well instead of embarrassing yourself with this ignorance you displaying around. Here is a glaring points about Yahweh or El-shaddai as God of the hills https://www.nairaland.com/1508769/christians-god-idol-hills

ubl6: @Folykaze, i know you are just a confused guy. You were a christian, then you claim to join islam, then atheism and now to so called african paganism. So you don't know what is good/bad for you. You just keep changing religions, only God knows what you will become tomorrow. Should i then be suprised by what wrote?

I am confused? Lol.

I was a christian because I was born into it. After some years, I took a step into Islam until I realised it whole lot of BS and I made my way out. Agnostism took some short period before I finally landed in atheism. And where did I tell you I am pagan? Sorry bro....I am a spiritual atheist who embrace tradition. I am not initiated into Ifa cult but I read books about it and question priest too. I am not pagan pls stop lying on my personality.

And for calling me a confused person, I take that as a compliment from you. Here this clearly. I am not a religion puppet or fall into indoctrination like you. I dont do things because my parent do it. I am human like them and they gave me my freedom to explore to any length. You want me to be slave like the quran called you or the submit by the sword or surrendering into dogmatism and terror?

ubl6: And why did you ignore this verse. Say, "What thing is greatest as a testimony?" Say, "Allah is witness between me and you. This Qur'an was revealed to me that I may warn you thereby AND WHOMEVER IT REACHES." You see you can choose to take whatever you like and ignore explicit texts. But just know that you cannot prove your claims from the Quran.

There is a designated place which the quran is going to which is the Arab country or the cities around mecca. The revelation is meant only for those that speak arabic so WHOEVER IT REACH there qualifies people in mecca and it surroundings. If whoever is what is confusing you......I cant be in the front of the class and say whoever among you that do not submit his/her assignment will be punish....and from there you should be thinking I am refering to all the students on campus.

Mecca and the cities around it is the subject point of the revelation and Whoever it reach qualifies the subject.

ubl6: And stop associating me with "Taqiyya" pls, it belongs to the followers of Shi'ism and I'm not of them..

You should have come clean because lies and deceit isn't what I welcome. You were lying in your previous post....trying to redefine a simple term as whole world which is not. That is taqiyya. It part of Islam and not specific to a sect.

emotional: Thanks.
Orunmila/Ifa, requires(animal) sacrifices, right? Is Ikin/Opele also d receptor of d blood? (Where d blood is sprinkled)

Initiation, scenario where d initiates is absent while d parents are present,how possible?

Divination through phone, your view?

Ifa do not take sacrifices but it direct you on nourishing other orisas. Read about animal sacrifice here http://ofunmeji.com/2012/10/04/the-hows-and-whys-of-animal-sacrifice-in-traditional-ifa/.

noblefada: The coming of the Holy Spirit was to give man a full revelation and understanding of God and Christ, men through the inspiration of the HS were to understand the will of God of which a major part of it was salvation to all men through Grace aside from works, but the early apostles could not shake off the ordinances of the law quick enough to fulfil the will of Christ, hence Paul was chosen. Read the book of Ephesians and you will understand what I'm saying. Now pls remember all believers has access to the same HS, the only difference is how much you are willing to yield to the promptings of the Spirit.

And how is the verse you quoted relating to paul and not holy spirit? Why are you contradicting yourself?

emotional: @FOLYKAZE. Bros u harsh small some of your respond carries some elements(tones)which reminds me of my old-days teacher,so if I sense that'' e-whip'' I take d next exit.

My hand raised for more questions.

lol. Not harsh really. Some people can just make you go crazy. Ask your question pls.

Logicboy03: Davidyliar......the only person who said that Bolaino wasnt an atheist is Folykaze and even at that, Folykaze put him as an agnostic.....


Guy, just stop lying

I didn't put him as an agnostic....he was an agnostic theist who lean toward theism. Here are evidence.

Here is the evidence that bolaino was never an atheist. You guys should stop lying for him.

He said here that he is an agnostist on Aug 18

bolaino: lol, oga uyi, this might bring a change to the topic, but that's where the believe in the supernatural comes to play. I'm agnostic and I believe in the supernatural, there are instances where sentient beings communicate with man, but these beings or entities should not be confused to be God.

https://www.nairaland.com/1400533/what-does-voice-god-sound#17524053

From the point above, it is vividly clear that bolaino was an agnostist. The God he was refering to in his post is personal God.

Here again, he said his agnosticism leans to theism

bolaino: my agnosticism leans more towards theism. Cos I do not want to ultimately rule out the possibility that there might be a God, but on the other hand, there isn't enough to prove that there is a personal God, I'm against the personal God concept. Yeah, entities, like ghosts, aliens and any other being that isn't human. I believe these things exist. Call me ignorant if u may. But I believe strongly that they do exist.

https://www.nairaland.com/1400533/what-does-voice-god-sound#17527394

In the above, he explained that he is heading to theism and not atheism really. Because he believe in the existence of God and other non material beings. Nothing like atheism here but agnostic theist.

Here again, Uyi was clearing bola's doubt and others that see him as atheist

Uyi-iredia:
This is interesting. It confirms what I suspected and what I read once: that there are agnostic theists. I was doubtful because theism is usually gnostic and agnosticism is mostly associated with atheism.

https://www.nairaland.com/1400533/what-does-voice-god-sound#17536772

From the above and many others, bolaino was never an atheist. There is nowhere in his post where he stated to be an atheist. You people should stop lying to please anybody here. I have ran through all his post but cant find anything related to atheism there. He was agnostic theist and now a theist.

noblefada: Again a result of ignorance of scriptures, were expecting people to go to classes or session taught by the Holy Ghost? ?

What is the meaning of Holy spirit interpretation?

ubl6: Both the verses 6:92 and 42:7 say "Mother of cities and those around it" not those "near" it!
Those around it means the full world. Mecca is the centre of the world, thus all of world's cities are around Mecca. It refer to all people as we could see the Qur'an telling us in context elsewhere:
Surah 6:19
Say, "What thing is greatest as a testimony?" Say, "Allah is witness between me and you. This Qur'an was revealed to me that I may warn you thereby AND WHOMEVER IT REACHES. Do you [trully] testify with Allah there are other deities?" Say, "I will not testify [with you].' Say, "Indeed He is but one God, and indeed, I am free of what you associate [with Him]."
Surah 25:1
Blessed is He who has sent down the Criterion upon upon His servant that he may be TO THE WORLDS a warner.
Surah 21:107
And We have not sent you [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to the worlds.

'Around it' mean world? Which school do you graduated from pls? So the cities around london include australia? Smh. The quran is very clear saying that the message is mecca and the cities around it. Around mean In or near one's current location. Your argument here is flaw.

'World' does not necessarily mean whole earth. Get your dictionary pls.

ubl6: Indeed both of these verses say in the past Allah did send Messengers to every people. But with the coming of Islam all other religions have been abrogated:
And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will among the losers. 3:85

What was it that Allah think when he was sending messengers to each people? Moreover, prophet mohamed started Islam so his message was directed to the Arab and other nations follow their messengers rather than been puppets. The verse didn't say verse, stop bringing taqiyya here pls. The verse is very clear which stated that we DID raise among people a messenger. The people of Yoruba have theirs, Igbo have theirs and Hausa have theirs. Islam started with Prophet mohamed and it is because he was raised among his people. Therefore Islam is for his people. Quran didn't say each messenger to leave his people for another people. Which mean prophet mohamed is entitled to Arab. Stop been puppet.

ubl6: This verse does not restrict Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) to only be a guide to Arabic speaking people. What this verse establishes is the fact that when Messengers came to their respective people they came to them speaking in their language so that they could understand them. Prophets of God did not fall down to earth from space but were chosen or raised as prophets from within their community or nations (of course Adam was an exception). The nation from whom they were raised spoke a particular language. Not so surprisingly then, this is the language the prophets used to communicate to them the message of God, otherwise they would not understand the message.

Another Taqiyya. The verse said clearly that each messenger were sent in the language of his people. Quran is pure Arabic nope? Can mohamed speak french or spanish? Therefore he is only meant for Arab because he spoke Arabic and his message were written in Arabic. Other tribe are not entitled to follow him or Islam because their messenger should teach them in their own language not a foreign language.

ubl6: History testifies that the Prophet (peace be upon him) sent Qur'anic verses in Arabic with translations/translators warning the non-Arab Emperor Heraclius, Chosroes II, Negus etc. Furthermore, if non-Arabs weren't allowed to accept Islam then why was Salman the Persian allowed to do so with no objections from the Prophet (peace be upon him)? The same goes for the Ethiopian Bilal ibn Rabah who was held in high honor for being the first muezzin (announcing the call to prayer from the mosque) personally selected by the Prophet (peace be upon him). If Islam wasn't meant for non-Arabs as well then why did the Prophet (peace be upon him) say "There is no superiority of an Arab over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab over an Arab. except in piety"(Musnad Ahmad, Hadith no. 22391) Notice that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said that race isn't a sign of superiority, rather what makes one superior to the other is piety. This shows that piety is accessible to non-Arabs through Islam. This indicates that Islam has a universal message. This is something that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) has made very clear in another Hadith:

The quran was sent down in Arabic because Mohamed was an Arab man and was delivery his message as sent only to the Arab. Mohamed cannot speak french so those in france will have their own specific messenger.

Are translator your own messenger? Your confusion and lies is really alarming.

Most people convert by sword. That is the motto of Islam. And I am dealing with quran, pls take your Haddit elsewhere.

NativeBoy: I don't understand your comment. Nevertheless it is common knowledge that everyone migrated out of Africa.

common knowledge is not usually common.

The whole earth was once one land mass before it splitted to continents.

joel lala: Bolaino was an atheist that converted back to christianity..There is no big deal about it LB03...and the funny thing was that Mr. Troll was following me to drag in a past thread that bolaino didnt convert to christianity when it was so obvious from his write up..

Waiting for the next atheist to convert..

But wait o, logic boy don dey become Daddy G.O of the Atheism movement of Nairaland Revival mission... Offering and tithing go soon follow.

He was never an atheist. From his previous post, he said he is more agnostist than deist. Anyway, the issue is not atheism....what is necessery is being liberal and not fanatist. And I am good with everything that make him happy.

Thinking maybe he got a new job headed by the pastor with much pay. Or the church is now giving him financial support.

I could remember before switching fully to atheism. Because of my gal, I went to church and do christian activities but deep down.....it just script. After feeding her with love and got her heart in my hand, I bashed choir mistress then pastor and make my way out.

Bolaino might be playing a game of survival. If you cant beat them, join them.

noblefada: That's where you're wrong, Christ actually pointed to Paul, actually to the apostles but they could not get over Judaism on time so Paul was chosen John 16:7-8 NKJV
Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. [8] And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Look I choose to let you live on what you because it can't change the truth.

And they received him in the days of pentecostal. Is paul a holy spirit?

NativeBoy: Sorry I meant the Yoruba tradition equivalent of titans?

Titans is not a single deity. There are many males and females in it. They are immortals like the 200 humans that turn to Orisas. Sorry I dont know titans in Yoruba

@nativeboy. Are you now ignoring black and jew now? For how long should we wait for you standing up

FOLYKAZE: we didn't originate from two parents. The whole earth surface was one landmass before it split between the sea. Even you are contradicting your alpha man Mr President that said you originated from Middle east.

NativeBoy: And the equivalent of the Titans in Greek tradition would be?

Macof taking charge.

macof: Trolls in Norse

noblefada: ^^^ I give up, and to imagine that we xtians are delusional. Tell me how u can seem explain the bible so well and still say some are false and choose to believe what you want. I just give up.

I dont believe in the bible, I have knowledge about what is in there. Lets assume you want to argue about drinking alcohol, writings of paul is what I like use most. Lol. So arguing that I choose here do not work cuz since Jesus is the messiah as agreed, we should hear from him directly and not paul who corrupt his words. Cheers man

macof: Norse not Greek

The Vikings (major parts of present Germany) were a nation devoted to Thor

Thanks for the correction.

NativeBoy: So each god in the Yoruba pantheon has an equivalent in that of other cultures?

Who is Odin's counterpart in Yoruba tradition?

Odin is the god of war, battle, hunt, victory, death and wisdom. What comes to your mind should be Ogun.

emotional: You nailed it,a kind of representation, this 'Ikin or Opele' are they (like)palm-kernel? Often Kept in a white plate or bowl,

Lol.....why are you playing Eshu role on me?

Lets throw the stick at ourselves.

Who is Nigeria? Why do you represent Nigeria with green, white and green?

I am very sure you are in your scores or more than that. Pls where is the you in 1 or 2 yrs old? Lets assume your name is tunde, where is the tunde of 1 or 2 yrs old? The only answer or direction you can give me is picture.

And when you are about to date a girl, why do you represent your love with red rose flower?

Love is abstract, Nigeria is a mindset defining a terroritory and the young boy in you is gone in reality sense.

Orunmila also is a force and have humanic nature too but both are represented with Ikin. Ifa adherent dont call it palm kernel. Nope.

emotional: pls I realy need clarification,is it compulsory for Orunmila/Ifa child(seeker)to have this kind of(Ifa representation? Not to derail d thread do I drop my mail? Thanks once again

Lets assume you are a gal and a guy put a ring in your finger, what comes to your mind? Marriage or courtship.

Just like your computer and internet. You have database and server engine where every information or challenges are linked with other informations. If you want to gather this info, you need your computer, accessible internet connection and your gateway (website). With this, you can get any information you want.

Same thing goes with Ifa. Ikin or Opele is the tool which you use to communicate with Orunmila (deity of intelligence) and through that, you can access other Orisa and also connect with your Ori. If you not Ifa adherent or practitioner, it is not necessary for you to have Ikin. But just like been a computer student that needs computer machine, Ifa devotees have Ikin and understand Odus.

That is to the best I understand it. And thanks for playing Eshu role here lol.