₦airaland Forum

I got Fela......HE IS MY GOD

I support this

Ranchhoddas: Is this nairaland's new method of 'like-hunting'?

Exactly my thought. Lol

You not alone in this man

Mr.Rothstein:
oh my god thank you,exactly what i've been saying,you don't expect her to just go straight to heal you without trying to prove to you that what shes doing is different,all those extra stuff like coins is just her signature and theres nothing wrong with adding a little spice to her art

You can sit behind your computer and post anything. What are your reports on the experience I tasked you for? Dont tell me another story pls

leenu11: How fast is the healing process of the traditionalists? Have u broken a bone before?
I broke an arm bone as a child and all it took was a plaster of paris cast and 4 weeks to heal up.

I'm not saying the technique of the traditionalists don't work, I'm saying there's nothing supernatural about it.

Can you tell us what supernatural is in your worldview?

And how does spell, incision and concortion accounts to scientific phenomenon? Maybe we now have lab where spells are cast.

leenu11: For the record, human bones do heal by themselves(at least for younger people). That is why even in hospitals, the only thing done is to put the broken part in a cast, so as to restrict movement and allow the bone heal by themselves. All the charade the "woman" performed was to mystify the whole process and justify her pay and respect.

the bold is kinda funny. Bone heal itself without setting? Where do you get that from?

I think there's a difference between "heals itself" and "heals itself correctly".....when you get broken legs, sleep in your house. What happen to you next is your prob

Mr.Rothstein:
i think am not being clear and you are taking advantage of that,i am aware hypothesis is not an event but that wasn't the context i was using it in.am using the word ''paranormal'' as a perspective through which you view an event,i said if something you don't understand happens,you call it ''paranormal'' yet someone else calls it something else but these two opinions are just hypothesis which stems from the perspective these two parties hold and as such non is more valid than the other until the truth or the matter is discovered.i hope that's clear.i won't ofcourse try to debunk you when you say you're 50years old because in our experience that isin't an extraordinary claim(except we shared the same life span with a mosquito) but when you say something like ''i saw a man change into a cat'',now in our daily experience,that is an extraordinary claim and based on that,it is easy to dismiss such claims because of the 1)subjective nature of the experience 2)wild claims without sufficient prove,it is not enough to say it happened and expect everyone to believe you.i have not had any experience of that sort but those who claim to have had always end up giving themselves up when i try to go into details,so till i experience it.i'll continue to rely on my power of reason to debunk it.and i never said spell is latin or whatever,i was trying to compare a native doctor to a catholic priest who also makes his own ''incantations'' in latin during consecration and how that does not prove that whatever he's doing is anymore supernatural than what a native doctor does.am getting a headache explaining myself over and over,honestly the way you talk of science,an informed person might think you know what you're talking about,when you use science and decorate it in the way that suits your purpose then that is pseudointellectualism.but it all boils down to experience and until and until it can be objectively tested and experienced and verified,theres no reason to take such claims seriously.btw your ''carpenter wood and sawmill analogy'' is a non sequitur but am tired of going round in circles on this issue

You already made up your mind. What other say would be pseudo-intellectualism or junk.

Try again and reread what i wrote there. You get some wrong and you misapplied others. The main point here is go and experience supernatural claim or challenge those that make a claim. Cheers

Ranchhoddas: the james randi foundation should come and open a branch in nigeria...they'll go broke after 3days

James Randi foundation is a dishonest organisation which seeks nothing but popularism.

http://www.rense.com/general50/james.htm

http://voices.yahoo.com/exposing-unfair-truth-james-randi-1000000-120038.html?cat=17

Mr.Rothstein:
i was typing with my phone and was a bit in a hurry.ok what i meant by saying hypothesis is this;you see an event that you can't explain and you call it a paranormal activity,what am saying is that is just your own hypothesis,another person who sees it another way might not necessarily call it paranormal and as such it is somewhat dogmatic to stamp it as paranormal since it is open to subjective views from different people i.e ''hypothesis'' get it?

Hypothesis is not an event. It is a propose explanation of an event or phenomenon. The unexplanable event and a phenomenon which is not having scientifical explanation is supernatural. I went further saying that when there is explanation, it becomes normal and add up to knowledge. How many times should I repeat this?

Some years back, people believe rain is a supernatural droplet....now that there is explanation, it becomes normal phenomenon.

Mr.Rothstein:
and i am able to refute such claims without necessarily experiencing it because i've never met anyone that has admitted to have had any experience of anything of the sort without shaky details.

How could you have refuted me if I claimed am 50years old? Note you not having contacts with me

How can you debunk me if I claim 17+13=210 if you dont know arithmetic?

How can you denounce supernatural claim when you haven't experience or it haven't happened before you? You cant propose it false or truth until you experience it.

Mr.Rothstein:
btw you said spirituality is the foundation of science and now you seem to be making a distinction between the two as one being finite and the other infinite(whatever that means)so i think you still haven't settled for what you wish to call spiritual or non spiritual

The wood the carpenter used in his workshop is from the sawmill. Sawmill is not only compatible with forest, the profound source of sawmill material is forest.

Apply that to spirituality and science.

Mr.Rothstein:
what is special about saying a few incantations?nothing,catholic priests say that too when consecrating communion yet you don't take them seriously.i never said spells or incantations are science,i said these are just signatures of different believe systems.priests speak latin too,i guess you could call that spell or incantation too?

Spell and incantation are not a latin language. I am suspecting you are not a nigerian.....what is this you are writing? Lol

I now conclude you deduce your refutes from what you saw on movies and hearsay. Spell and incantation are normal languages spoken daily. And it works fine.

What is the alternate for incision in catholic church?

Lastly spell or incantation isn't signatory......it is spiritual voice command prompt. Like when you command a voice recognition machine.

Mr.Rothstein:
dude i really don't wish to continue in this pointless argument.am typing with my phone,

am using phone too.

Mr.Rothstein:
but i would like to ask you,if these claims are true then why do we have subjective experience of it?especially in thirdworld countries,why do we not see or even hear of this in developed societies where these claims can be easily tested?are ''thirdworlders'' so close to the 'truth' behind nature?closer than everyone else?

Do you know who wiccan (witch) is? They are everywhere in the developed countries. Maybe you were brought up inside gate. This is internet world, hook up with people.

Wicca mean the 'wise one'. Wicca is a cult

Babalawo are now in europe..... Babalawo mean 'father who mastered esoterism'. They belong to awo (cult)

Does what happen in frat group revealed to public? Why is it that coca-cola recipe is kept secret? Why is it that white house original survey map are hidden?

You have to go there and experience it anywhere in the world though I know about western Nigeria. Goodluck as you search for new experience. Until then you can neither know or contact it nor debunk or refute it.

Mr.Rothstein:
i may not have experienced any of these claims(maybe because theres nothing to experience)but what about those who have investigated?people like mazaje on this forum?will you then say perhaps you're wrong or maybe he's telling lies?do you then see that there really is no way of convincing you just by mere experience or lack of?

I was the one that challenged mazaje. And till now, he haven't show up for testing bullet proof charm out. I look forward to see him showing for the challenge though. Ghostofsparta on the other hand challenged atheists on this forum but non picked it up. So what else should we do? Do you want me to drag them or take the show to their room? I am not forcing anybody.......everyone is free to defend their position from what could pull it down.

Image123: What do you need extra height for?

His gal is eyeing the tall and handsome guy down the street. Also he is a dwarf.

Alright, I understand mate.

Mr.Rothstein :

Wow ok am going to ignore the fact that you try to creat a distinction between paranormal,supernatural and extraordinary.good thing you talked about science,unexplained events or occurence that do not stand the test of repeated and objective experiments are not called paranormal or supernatural,they're called hypothesis or conjectures, and funny thing about conjectures is that all opinions are valid until the truth is discovered,till then no one can claim monopoly on what these event are and it is because of this that all claims of this sort should be taken with a grain of salt.

The bold is making the whole discussion funny. And it seem you are reading meaning to my statements. I guess everything I wrote are simple.

Here is your error mate. Paranormal, extraordinary and supernatural is a term used for a phenomenon.

Hypothesis and Conjecture are term used as proposition of a phenomenon. You see the differences?

A conjecture typically refers to a statement you are making that is unproven or a proposition that is unproven while a Hypothesis is an educated guess some even call it a scientific guess which tries to explain a phenomenon. It is a proposed explanation or a tentative assumption made in order to draw out and test its logical or empirical consequences for a phenomenon.

The phenomenon on it own stand either as normal, extraordinary, paranormal or supernatural.

Conjecture and Hypothesis = proposed explanation or proposition of a phenomenon

Paranormal and supernatural = phenomenon

Mr.Rothstein :

Well if you wish to define spirituality that way then fine,science deals with falsifying or confirming claims and until i can do one of these,i wish to remain skeptical

You should have been skeptical rather than going straight on refutation. It sound wield when you claim to refute what you culled from hearsay, movie show or read from cooked news which you have not personally experienced.

I told you initially that science have bounds....spirituality is infinite. Science can not explain everything. So instead of arguing about what you haven't experienced, go and experience it then come back for argument.

Mr.Rothstein :

I never said herbs doesn't include voodoo(what does that even mean)

what is this below?

Mr.Rothstein :

herbal medicine is not voodoo or witchcraft.

Mr.Rothstein :

i said herbal healing is as natural as anything we know,the fact that the native doctors says some words doesn't make it anymore supernatural.

What is naturalistic explanation for incision, ritual, sacrifices, chanting (incantation) and spell?

Mr.Rothstein :

you don't believe in the christian god,so does the fact that a priest says the words of consecration over waivers prove to you that it is indeed divine?these are just signatures of different believe systems.

Divinity and sacred in science world is SUPER.

I dont believe in anthropomorphic Gods.

Mr.Rothstein :

Again i said herbs is a natural process,it's just you that chose to give it a supernatural appeal,am sure if people like abraham should see a jet,there's no way anyone could convince him that's not something supernatural,these are all subjective experience

I am not saying herbs medicine doesn't have natural process. Base on what you quoted there, I was writing about voodoo which mean manipulating energies and natural forces.

Mr.Rothstein :

Dude what are you even saying?a whole bunch of pseudoscience again

calm down and answer my question.

Local doctors use incantation, rituals, sacrifices, spells and fetish tools....are these science (pseudo) too?

Explain how a spell is science or how ritual is science pls.

Mr.Rothstein :

that's right and until these claims can be put to the test,on repeated trials,objective observation,then i can believe but for now i don't think so.

I am not asking you to believe. I asked you to know what you talking about.

This claim can be put to test on repeated trials and objective observation.......just face it or challenge those that made a claim.

Mr.Rothstein :

btw james randi has a million dollar prize for anyone that can demonstrate any supernatural claim and pass through his rigorous tests,so far no one has passed,i think that says alot

Randi is vague and not realistic from the way I view it. You shouldn't tell us about it because we already know.

- I will have to fly from Nigeria to LA with an application to be submitted in a mailbox

- I will fly back to Nigeria and have to wait for three months before am replied.

- Another months for verification.

- Test....this is not the real exam.

And many other long process that involve flying in and out of US.

Can you sponsor it? Can you bring them to Nigeria?

Start 40 days white fasting and pay your tithes

Mr.Rothstein:
maybe we have different definitions on what 'extraordinary' means,i take it to mean beyond the ordinary and am not sure how that's different from supernatural which is something beyond the natural i.e. Ordinary reality we're familiar with.somaybe should define what 'spiritual' means so we're on the same page.and based on what i understand to be supernatural,nothing in what you have explained sounds like it,herbal medicine is not voodoo or witchcraft.i agree though that i'll have to experience it for myself to confirm or falsify but for now am not convinced

Extraordinary and paranormal is the same and both are described as impossible to explain scientifically, unable to be explained or understood in terms of scientific knowledge. It is basically an experience that is outside of the range of normal, or to be outside of modern science's current ability to explain or measure. Example are Extraterrestrial life, unidentified flying object, dark matter, dark energy. While supernatural would also indicate no explanation by normal or known natural law or scientific means but the activity is attributed to a spiritual source like God, demons, angels, or spirit etc. In spirituality, there is no basic God (i mean sky daddy who is hungry for worship and faith) but the word was adopted as admiration for natural phenomenon. Like the pantheist call Universe God, Jain call universe God. In natural pantheism, everything in nature is God and divine or sacred. So the final output of both extraordinary and supernatural manifest plain before nature so it nature but no explanation yet for it.

Spirituality on the other hand is the search for sacred (scientifical term for super and wonders) which involve understanding oneself, enquiring and observing your environment. Spirituality is like aiming to define the indefinable which give birth to science. Spirituality is not only compatible with science, it is the profound source of science - carl sagan.

Herbs doesn't include voodoo and witchcraft? Are you for real?

Voodoo mean spirit and in scientific sense, spirit is energy. Were you not the one that said herbs is part of pseudoscience?

Incision, incantation, spell and unexplanable practice is witchcrafting. Occultism contain witchcrafting and that is the practical science there. Kindly hook up with wiccan....or get close to Awo to make herb or medicine to you. They will use spells and others. It witchcraft to you because you dont understand it. A man that want to pluck leaf and incantate is scientifical huh? Smh.

You can not be convinced unless you experience it. You cant sit down behind computer in the city and ask me to provide fact for you. Go to those that have it very close to you. Go and test them. We cant convince you with words.

rationalmind: Lol, I'm not a dwarf but I certainly will like to grow taller.

Your gal got problem with your height? Lol

I was about asking you too if u have any juju that can make me taller

No sir.

Go and consult those that sell herbs.....they will provide answer for that.

Mr.Rothstein:
honestly its very hard to make out what exactly you're talking about here,its incoherent.on one hand you say ''when did i tell you that what the woman did was extraordinary'' then the next minute you say what she did was spiritual,forgive me if i find that contradictory.ofcourse she wouldn't know what the scietific name of the elements she used are,but she might have another name for it,i still don't understand what point that made.you're peddling pseudoscience by seeing something spiritual in a basic mathematical axiom like the difference between 1 and 2,seems to me you're the one who feels the need to argue baselessly.but well i submit that i've not had any supernatural experience and so i'll leave it to those who claim to have experienced it to show the truth in their claims

Lol. Am incoherent? Thats a complement. Thanks.

The whole ground of my incoherent talk is go out there and experiment it or challenge those that make claims about supernatural rather than hanging on words. And if you got nothing to do than making cheap talk or baseless arguement, get me 'dry and white salt' from a three days soup.

So extraordinary is parallel with spirituality? Or what is contradicting in my statement? Smh.

The woman know bitter leaf, vegetable, pepper leaf and mango treeback. Am asking you to ask the old pal in your village the chemical elements in the herb concortion he made, how cashew leaf heal typhoid and how lime water heal malaria. Ask him to explain the process on how he gets the final concortion and what makes it work. The answer he can give you is Gods did it. Period because he doesn't understand. How then can you ask me to explain something i dont understand?

So making herb is pseudoscience. You are scientifical and haven't seen any medicine you produced except the ones other make. Do you even read at all? I explained science as normal.....and spirituality as infinity without bounds. I said supernatural is something not fully understood but when there is explanation, it becomes norm and add up to knowledge. Because you have little explanation like you know plants contain so so chemical makes it pseudoscience huh? You are eating your teeths bro. So incision and incantation is pseudoscience huh? Lol.

Internet is not the place for acquiring full knowledge. Go out there and experience it. How is that hard for you?

rationalmind: Lol, you can also ask him on my behalf

Lol. Are you a dwarf?

So he should help you with his anus in the toilet when you want to let go your poo? Hmmmm.....guy you get problem.

Mr.Rothstein:
just to correct you,i didn't make this post just for 'cheap talk' like you called it,i hoped to be convinced on how this works but so far you've not done that.herbs and fractured bones are nothing extraordinary,she said you'll be healed when the chicken bone was healed too,sounds to me like saying ''you'll be healed after a certain period of time'' doctors do that too,herbal medicine is not supernatural neither is razor eating,these are just impressive tricks people do

Are you for real?

I explained to you that supernatural is a term use to express a not yet understood phenomenon. Is that the fact you want me to present? You want me to explain what doesn't have explanation. Smh. For real, you are here for cheap talk and baseless arguement. I quote Einstein who said Experimentation is truth, logical thinking and analysis cant explain the empirical world. I have challenged you to go for experience, what is the fact you looking for from me? Stop lying around....we know your purpose and it cheap talk or argument. Get something better doing (experiment) than hanging on words. There are more to life than internet and technology.

And where did I say there is something extraordinary in what the woman did on my broken bones? I have initially explained that supernatural is something that we cant fully explain yet but when there are full explanation, it become norms and add up to knowledge. nature is super enough. Pls can you explain how my bone and that of fowl were healed with herbs, concortion and incision? Is incision explanable with logic? For hell sake since it ordinary and simple like 2+2, can you explain logically how incision and herb healed my hand?

The woman that worked on my hand do not know 20 elements, do not have logical analysis or scientifical yet her work succeeded. If you ask her to explain the chemical components in the herb, how fowl bone equates to mine and what coin is doing with bone, she will look you as mad person because she do not know and cant fully understand. I have challenged you to ask the aged papa in your village to list the chemical component in herbs.....DESPITE, THIS HERBS, CONCORSION AND MEDICINE WORKS.

There work aint scientifical but spiritual. And to the best aspect i know, spirituality is compatible with science. Science is bounded between logical explanation and practical display while spirituality have no bounds. You and I know that after counting 1, 2 follows. There is bound and limit among the two BUT looking dip, there is infinite too between the figures. 1.0000000001 to 1.999.....till eternity is between 1 and 2. Normal situation is putting bounds while the infinite is spirituality. So in real sense, you approximate the infinite so that you have one figure/number. Your enquiry on fact is like asking me to count infinte number here. Wtf? The best I can give is approximate spirituality to you which is go and experience it. Or challenge those that made claims on supernatural. If you on about arguing.....it mean you got and want nothing. Why cant you get me white and dry salt from three days soup? That should give you something to do.

Eating razor blade is trick huh? Can you google it and how to do it so that i buy you pack of razor for feeding. Dont run around showing me video of people doing it. It trick and you know it trick. You cant know something without contacting it. Knowledge is based on empirical reasoning and critical analogy.....which is a factual belief. So since you know eating razor is trick, it mean you have confirmed that and well convinced base on logical reasoning that it trick. Now come and show us how it trick by eating one pack of razor blade. You can not just give us a speculation and think we should accept it like that. If you are ready to eat blade to prove it trick, I will take you serious buddy.

Joshthefirst: I've seen people healed by God. I've been healed several times. You cannot make me disbelieve what I have seen and heard and experienced.

Man will always yearn for the supernatural. Its in his nature. That's why men who claim to peddle it draw the largest crowds.

If Kay17 suddenly has a terminal incurable disease, she'll probably look for a so called healer to preserve her life.

What you saw could be illusion, what you heard could be lies....what was it you experienced?

Miracle are more coincidental than be class as practical experimentation.

Tell us any analytical experience so that we discuss it and verify.

Elantracey: ah thought dis thread was 4 just divepen n alfa ...

Ah thought you were the holy mary whos heart bleed blood when her son was nailed with thor hammer to a stick. Divepen nailed by Alfa and she yelled

Experience alone can decide on truth..... Pure logical thinking cannot yield us any knowledge of the empirical world: all knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it. (Albert Einstein, 1954)

OP we are the same in skeptism. When I asked a babalawo to explain Ifa to me, he only gave me same old stories I had from people. I told him am not satisfied and he challenged me to visit Igbodu where I can experience it and decipher meaning to it in my own understanding and consciousness. That mean words cant explain everythiing. Though since am still living on my parents, I cant go that far with the old man but am sure to when am alone in the future.

Personally to me, what we call supernatural is something we cant explain now or which doesnt have explaination as at present. So I still wonder how you will explain what you dont understand. Nothing is supernatural, everything in nature is super enough. When there are explaination, everything become normal and add up to knowledge.

I would have taken you on experimentation but it you seem you are close minded and only want to argue. I am not on for that.....I walk to the stream and do what I got to do, I dont argue if it compose of so so so and so hydrogen or oxygen. You were arguing on human turning to cat, why cant you start from the simple herb and medicine concortion? Why cant you walk toward those toothless how papa in the village and ask him the chemical component in herbs, leaves and local medicine? I can proudly say my right hand broke in two places when I was in secondary school. My dad moved me to this local orthopaedic clinic. It was dirty and what suprised me is that no tangible tool there than the woman clothless bed and black pots. Nothing like medical equipments to classified it as a clinic. It was my dad that bought the tools used on the hand. And what is it....calabash, some herbs, a fowl, some coin money (10 kobo and one thing they called money with hole in the middle....this cost like 1k each) and some other fetish things. My mum wrapper were torn to make bandage. The old woman did her work and what marvel me today is that she broke the two arm of the fowl, treated it with same treatment on me and said when the chicken healed, my hand would be intact. I was there for two weeks and behold, my hand was ok though still had some pains and cant handle things. I was discharged and had to report to her daily for check up. Now is it the old woman that hardly can write her name you want around to give you logical explaination of what she did? I dont even believe she can explain the relationship between me and hen or what coin and herbs which i ate some as concortion and rest applied on my hand. My hand is here for verification. And am sure you cant know anything happen to it unless I tell you or show you traces. The point is are herbs working or it not because it not explainable?

I agreed there are magic and tricks. I have watched those thing live....i mean right before my two eye and not on tv screen. A critical example is water in a basket. I verified it and confirmed there was nylon in it. Do I have to ask common street tout to give me logical analysis on what he himself doesn't understand but do as fun? An aboki guy taught me and a friend how to eat razor....now my friend can eat it but i can never try such a thing... ....is it aboki you want around to give you rational points why the blade didn't cut him?

Even the great scientist I know make critical observation. They ask questions for furthering understanding not for argument sake or cheap talk. So what they do is experiment and test. Go there where you can find chance to experience or challenge those that made a claim about this. Thats where your answer lied. If you want argument on nairaland (cuz supernatural talk pool more replies) then you can go on endlessly as you wish without any result. I wrote something on bullet proof charm and still working on it....because i fish out naturalistic hypothesis for it. You can go out there and experiment it then come out with whatever you got there. Cheers

Divepen: I dont know what you want to me to say again but before we continue can you let me do a test for you to know if im dealin with a real satanist or an atheist

nonsense

Following.

Satan smacks down is really bad. I will watch from the side. Hmmmm

Vagabonds in Power

fkaz: Lagos presidential election: Bola Tinubu's Interview: We Supported Jonathan Win 2011 Election ...
nigeriavillagesquare.com/.../bola-tinubus- ...
31 Mar 2012 ... Mr Tinubu was conveyed to Aso Rock in presidential jet beforehand. With a sweeping mandate to rig .

Kano was under ANPP in 2011

You shouldn't have honour him with reply. The guy always think he is smart and politically vibrant while he is dull and bias with his points.

Mr. Nyesom
WIKE (We Intend to Kill Education!) was a high profiled tout. He think Education is about Oil theft and kidnapping.....how can knowledge and tactics in handling problem sink into the head of vagabond in power?

We human think we are very intelligent. But we are deceived by our neurons which make us appear as intelligent. Animal live to die because there is no God.

Go to a place of worship called church with some speculated names (deeper life, or redeem etc) in the bible. I will blast the pastor for organising a small business in the building and blast the congregate for been foolish.

Confirm guys prefer this condition than what he face at home

wiegraf: I don't talk about stuff that's annoying, etc. That's negative, negative energy ruins everything. I'm all about rainbows and peaceful, respectful convos where we share cabin. On that note, I'm only going to mention my BFFs

In no particular order, the most funny, intelligent, witty, erudite people on the boards (note, I love everyone, even vedaxx, but spacetime issues) are

Josh (that dislikes my 'sarcasm' yet still puts me under the 'funny' list)
Uyi
Ishilove
Rationalmind (or dude? I forget which)

You guys are the bestesetestesetestest BFF's a man could hope for. I'm off to do my nails. Catch you later

Guy.....my eyez on you.

Most annoying guy on nairaland.

Feel like engaging him in gun fight to prove my point.

What happen to firing squad? There can be jail break tomorrow. Firing squad should be the best option for terrorist