₦airaland Forum

Aemmyjah:
We now have Boko Haram cos there was no soldiers in the country right?

Is that how you reason? How old are you please?

If there are no soldiers in the country, won't Boko Haram bè in control of Aso Rock by now?

Is it JW that made you like this?

achorladey:
That arrogance and pride of being the only one who are doing God's will or true Christians who don't learn from others will not allow him go back to this thread and read slowly and assimilate all the valid points you made regarding politics and warfare they place under neutrality

Bro, I was just ruminating over everything now and began to appreciate the toils of soldiers the more. Can you imagine what Boko Haram would have done to us if there is no soldier in this country? They would have been using the noses of Maxindhouse and Aemmyjah to blow trumpets by now. That's even if they're still alive. Fulani herdsmen for don send them go IDPs tey tey. That doctrine is a very foolish man made doctrine.

achorladey:
It is now father forgive them but before it was Jesus is going to kill all those who don't want Jesus to rule over them. Their time isn't up yet

He must peddle the lies and manipulations packed into that his madness and insanities peddling brains

He changed "Father forgive them for they know not what they do "

to

"Father forgive them, for they're mainly obeying orders."

Lol 😆

[quote author=achorladey post=129921265]

He will run away from the below.....

He has refused to answer that. He keeps perambulating and quoting unrelated scriptures without answering that question directly.

His religious publications said they don't know anything else about that. You will see him cooking assumptions and speculations to answer on their behalf

Exactly. Even quoting where Jesus said "Father forgive them.." manipulatively to support his spurious claims.

Aemmyjah:
Why don't you join them
Are we not all lounging for a united global family,

If I don't join them, I can support them in all ways possible. My tax and my patriotism is part of my support. I wouldn't say they're doing wrong for defending the country.

MaxInDHouse:
You're mixing it up now!

Before you said nah them come attack you without you doing anything against them but now you're saying they want to defend their lives and that of their loved ones.

Abeg are you saying by attacking you who never had anything evil against them they are also defending their lives?

Either way, if there's war between two countries, each country has the sovereign right to defend itself. If there's no soldier to defend Nigeria, even you wouldn't be here right now to type these rubbish.

Aemmyjah:
Did Jesus praise Peter when he tried to defend Jesus by cutting off someone's ear?

Go and read my post again. The question you're asking does not correlate.

People that defend their country have never killed a fellow believers in that country

People that don't defend their countries are alive only because some others are defending the countries.

MaxInDHouse:
Let's not go by assumptions rather what Jesus taught his disciples.

According to Matthew 10:16; 26:52 they are not to force anyone nor raise weapons against anyone even at the detriment of their lives as long as those coming are following orders from a ruler.

This is Mathew 10:16, 26:52

Can you show.me how this scripture tells you not to.join an army?

"I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. 17 Be on your guard; you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues. 18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20 for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you."

So those soldiers with Cornelius aren't the ones who accepted faith
in Christ rather it's Cornelius whose act of kindness was accepted by God! Act 10:1-4

This is the scriptures here:

Acts 10
"44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days."

Does this scripture above tell you that those soldiers in Cornelius' house didn't accept faith in Christ, only Cornelius alone whose alms were accepted before God? Look very well.

Even if it was Cornelius alone who accepted Christ, did Peter ask Cornelius to leave the army because he has accepted Christ?

MaxInDHouse:
Individuals attack differs from organized armed men receiving orders.

The one ordering them is the culprit not them as they're not acting on personal opinion rather a ruler is ordering them therefore it's the one ordering them that is at fault not those following orders! John 19:11

What's the one ordering them telling them to do? To go defend their lives and that of their loved ones . Meanwhile, the Bible says we should obey all authority because all authority is of God (Romans 13:1+7). Anyone ordering you to defend your life and that of your loved ones is not telling you to do anything evil.

The scripture you quoted in John 19:11 is offboard. Jesus was telling Pilates that he doesn't have the power to free Him. He told Pilate that he can't do it except that power to free Him was given him from heaven. He was telling Pilate that what He was going through cannot be reversed by human efforts . Jesus was not talking about soldiers obeying orders!

That's why Jesus was praying for those soldiers maltreating him because they were acting on orders so they can't say NO! Luke 23:34

No. Jesus told us the reason why He prayed for them. "Father forgive them for they do not know what they're doing ." They didn't know what they were doing, not because they were obeying orders. Your penchant for manipulating scriptures is legendary. You're doing it without shame.

For your information disciples of Christ can't pick up weapons to go attacking their fellow believers nah who are they obeying if that should happen?

They take up weapons to defend their countries. Not to attack fellow believers. You need to understand the purpose behind every action. To attack an enemy nation. Not to attack fellow believers.

Guy use your brain nah instead of following faithless miscreants gullibly!

You should open your eyes and use your brains. If you can defend yourself against an attacking fellow believer individually. Why can't you defend yourself against another nation as an army. Have you ever seen nations attacking themselves as believers? A nation is a nation, and a believer is a believer. When there's war, God knows how to protect His children in that war.

MaxInDHouse:
Guy, the soldiers attached to his house aren't members of his house so they're no part of those who dedicated their lives rather it's his immediate family who shared the same beliefs with him!

My dear, the Bible says His kinsmen and near friends were in the meeting, and infact they were MANY. The two soldiers who went to call Peter would be there too. You can also be rest assured that Cornelius' friends would be mainly soldiers.

Whether Cornelius was the only soldier or not, at least there was one soldier in that meeting. Did you hear Peter asking anyone to lay his sword aside because he has now become a disciple?

achorladey:
Na full link be this....

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/g200806/When-Is-Self-Defense-Justified/

Thank you bro.

Maxindhouse

Judging from your own publication (excepts attached), do you think a Christian has the right to defend himself against another Christian who violently attacks him? You know Satan can just use anyone at anytime.

Now, if your publication says individual self defense is right. Is it not individuals that make up a nation? Why is it that, what is good for an individual is not good for a nation?

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/g200806/When-Is-Self-Defense-Justified/

achorladey:
FxMasterz see their publications below.....

You should ask him, should Christians self defense themselves by going to war? Is it reasonable for Christians to do so against fellow Christians who show aggression and deadly harm?

Based on the religious publications he comes to give you in your own house?

Thanks bro. You just gave me a powerful weapon!

MaxInDHouse:
Sorry you missed the understanding of what is highlighted!

Cornelius and his household differs from all his soldiers.

Soldiers attached to each centurion back then are mostly about 100 men they weren't the ones putting faith in God rather it's Cornelius and his immediate family so it's not soldiers in his house that the Bible was referring to!

This is not what we're discussing my dear. But I just want to prove to you they you don't know the Bible. By saying "All the soldiers in his house" I do not mean all the soldiers under his command. I meant the soldiers living with him in his house. The scriptures made it clear that it wasn't just Cornelius and his family that listened to Peter. You might want to go and read Acts 10 again. Look at the scripture below. Take note of the bolded.

Acts 10

"Then called he them in, and lodged them. And on the morrow Peter went away with them, and certain brethren from Joppa accompanied him. And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and he had called together his kinsmen and near friends. And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him. But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man. And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together."

You can be sure that there were soldiers among his near friends. The two guys who were sent to Peter were definitely soldiers, and you can be sure that they too were in the meeting.

Now, did Peter tell any of them to lay down his swords because he has just become a disciple?

achorladey:
Definitely

Those your question kept him on the backfoot and I don't think he realises the exposure that has given to the lies and manipulations of their beliefs about politics and war.

Jesus forget he will still kill his enemies who don't want him to rule over them yet says they should love their enemies like themselves and pray for the same enemies.

Don't mind Him. Even the statement of Jesus alone shows the JWs don't understand the Bible.

achorladey:
sweet question, Jesus forget he has right to rule over them before saying we should love our enemies even pray for them. You can even see how he is busy twisting the scripture to support their religious doctrine of neutrality

Why wouldn't he twist scriptures. He's following the examples of his
leaders.

achorladey:
What made their case laughable is setting standards they don't follow. That reminds me of PHARISEES

Gbam!

They're Pharisees!

MaxInDHouse:
Cornelius hasn't been taught what Jesus commanded by the time he was serving as a soldier so after he's been taught what Jesus commanded he must drop that job because he can't be a Christian and at the same time going out to fight and kill his fellow believers due to the command of worldly politicians!

My dear, Cornelius and all the soldiers in his house that day got baptized after Peter preached. Did Peter or anyone ask them to drop their guns because they've now become followers of Christ?

Have you ever read it in the anals of history regarding the early church that the disciples were accused of converting soldiers to Christianity and asking them to lay down their swords? The Roman government would certainly accuse the disciples if such things had been taking place.

There are wicked regimes and wicked people in the world. Jesus Christ taught us to defend against them by asking the disciples to sell their garments and buy swords. Figuratively telling them the importance of self defence. On that particular occasion, He was not expecting them to fight but since He was offering Himself as a sacrifice, He didn't want His disciples to see it as an example for them to always fold their hands whenever their lives are being threatened by a criminal. He was figuratively telling them "I'm doing this because this is my purpose for coming to earth but I'm not saying defending yourself is wrong".

The most profound statement Jesus made was "If my kingdom is of this world, (i.e had it been I'm an earthly king or president) my servants would fight (I'll have a retinue of soldiers who would fight). That's very plain. Stop applying your personal logic to scriptures, and take the word of God as it is. All these gymnastics don't pay you.

Now, there are criminal nations who just want to wipe off everybody and take over resources. They must be resisted. If Israel was a JW country, the nation would have been wiped out by now. Just imagine that everyone in Israel is a JW. By now, the nation would no longer exist. They're existing because of self defence. And God is helping them against their enemies. Is God unjust for helping them against their enemies?

When there are wars between 2 countries, it is true that Christians within both countries would fight themselves as soldiers. They're representing their countries and not Christianity. By defending their countries, they're doing the will of God. God knows how to protect His children in such battles, no matter where they belong. All children of God who are soldiers in both warring nations would have God's attention.

God Himself is a Mighty Warrior. He is also a wise God. He knows how to defend His children in the day of battle.

MaxInDHouse:
Because the time is up for them to be wiped out of this planet! Luke 19:27
God will not continue to condone their faithlessness forever!

Why would their time be up to be wiped out? Jesus doesn't want to love His neighbor as Himself anymore? Or what do you mean?

Meanwhile, the time is up for Maxindhouse to be wiped out of this planet, that's why he would fold his arms and watch as a murderer attacks his family.

MaxInDHouse:
Why weren't Jesus' disciples defending their brothers when the Jews were killing them?

They won't fight against government. But they'll definitely defend their nations.

Tell us a scripture that says christians shouldn't join the army.

There were soldiers who gave their lives to Christ. They didn't leave the army because of that. Do you know this?

Cornelius was a soldier. Hope you know?

MaxInDHouse:
Armageddon is a war Jesus will lead his armies in heaven to kill all enemies of Christianity {Revelations 19:14} not so called Christians fighting and killings themselves!

Why would Jesus kill all enemies of Christianity when He said you should love your neighbors as yourself?

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus commanded his disciples:

LOVE your neighbours! Mark 12:31
LOVE your fellow believers! John 13:34-35
LOVE and PRAY for your enemies! Luke 6:27-28

Only JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are practicing this globally!

By not defending their countries?

They're not loving anyone by practicing this foolishness.

Love defends against aggressions. If you love your mother, you won't watch while she's been assaulted until she's killed. Love would move you to defend her.

If you have nothing to defend, it means you have nothing to love. That means you have no love. You only love yourself.

MaxInDHouse:
So his disciples are citizens of this world's kingdom shey? John 17:14


So he will lead the citizen of any nation his disciples will support the killing of their neighbours in another country but what if they have preached and taught citizens of that nations and many have become his disciples there?

My friend. The answer is absolutely Yes! Jesus said "My servants will fight". It doesn't matter where the servants are from.

What is the war of Armageddon all about? Tell us. Is Armageddon a war between devil and devil?

MaxInDHouse:
There was no wars in Islam because Muhammad didn't set up to start fighting for his beliefs to be imposed on people rather it's the Roman Catholic Church he met claiming Christians that were forcing their beliefs on people so he has no option than to do the same!


How can people tell people to come out so their eyes could be plucked out?
Guy it's just between Zelensky and Putin that's all, both of them are dragging territories then their gullible neighbours are sticking out their necks to die for them while the families of Zelensky and Putin are safe somewhere.
Who born mumu?

So as friends of PEACE we stay away from their struggle whoever is there to rule is none of our business all we need is freedom to continue preaching and teaching about God's Kingdom anywhere we find ourselves!

There were.

Go and read about Ottoman empire. That's not what we're discussing anyway. Just change the topic. Mohammed too fought. He beheaded many Jews for rejecting his prophethood.

Christians never forced their beliefs on people. Go and study honest history. The Roman Catholic enforced her doctrines among her adherents, not on people of other faiths.

I'm not going to allow you turn this to a Zelensky and Putin discussion . Let's focus the topic.

MaxInDHouse:
Who are his servants that will fight for him anytime he needs soldiers to fight? Matthew 16:27; 25:31 compare to Revelations 19:4

Guy it's the soldiers of his Kingdom that will do the fighting and they are angels not humans as they must not kill any of his disciples.

But your own soldiers are killing their fellow believers yet claiming they are for the same Christ!

That's not the question.

He said "If my Kingdom is of this world". Take note of that.

What would Jesus do, if He were to be the President or King of any nation today? His servants will fight!

Stop asking irrelevant questions.

MaxInDHouse:
What a pity you can't quote Jesus whom you're claiming is your Lord anymore!

Well let me help you out.
We are not in support of any ruler whoever is there is none of our business if Zelensky agree with Putin to take over Ukraine and rule the land nobody will die the only thing there is for the country (Ukraine) to return to Russia as part of that country.
So it's not about the citizens defending anything rather it's the selfish ambitious rulers they're fighting for while killing themselves.

The same thing happened during Jesus' time as his teachings is sinking into the hearts of his people the Pharisees and Sadducees decided to kill him because they felt without soldiers the Roman empire will take over the rulership of their land from them as Jesus is telling their people not to fight against anyone be it friend or foe! John 11:48

That was not what Jesus was saying! If the crusaders and the nations didn't take up sword now, the whole world would have been under Islam! JW organization wouldn't be born. Even Russell s parents would have been Muslims.

It's foolishness to put yourself under the servitude of another for lack of good interpretation of scripture!

You mean if Russia has given Ukraine the condition that All Ukrainians should come out for their eyes to be plucked out as condition for peace, they should just go and lay down their eyes at the feet of the Russians? You guys should reason now!

MaxInDHouse:
Ask Jesus that question because he is the one who ordered his disciples to love their enemies not MaxInDhouse {Luke 6:27-28} and warned his disciples never to raise weapons against anyone be it friend or foe! Matthew 26:52

But let me help you a little.

According to Jesus of Nazareth there is no reason for a Christian to defend any place as we are no part of the world that's dragging seats for political reasons {John 17:14} neither are we in support of any human government because our government is not from this source? John 18:36

He knew that people like you would misinterpret that instruction to love your enemies to mean, do not defend your country, that's why He made such statements as:

"...he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

"Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence." John 18:36

Take note, "if my kingdom is of this world my servants will fight."

MaxInDHouse:
If the Ghanaian presido is having serious issues with Nigerian presido what will they tell their soldiers to do and will RCCG members in Ghana pray for their fellow believers in Nigeria ati that time or carry weapons to kill them as their presido orders?

So, that's racism to you?

That's not racism. Say something else.

Regarding soldiers. Soldiers represent their countries, not the church. By defending their countries, they defend their families and friends. If there are no soldiers in every country of the world where JW operates, JW wouldn't be able to function. Is JW functioning in Ukraine as we speak? The country was de-militarized like it is in JW doctrines. Russia attacked, and JW ran away. All their members ran away, leaving the country to burn. When the war ends, they would return there to enjoy the victory that other people shed their blood to have. That's wickedness.

MaxInDHouse:
Abeg what is the essence of their evangelism when they're still supporting politics and racism sending their members into the army?

Perhaps your spiritual sight is blurred by the deception of Satan! 2Corinthians 4:4

Adeboye is the G.O. of all RCCG and Kumuyi is the G.O. of Deeperlife just as the Pope is G.O. of Catholic yet during political struggles members of all these religions will carry weapons to kill their fellow worshipers from the same denominations in other countries.

That's what Jesus' admonition made easy for true believers to see as satanic not just arguing fruitlessly!

My dear, tell me how the church supports racism.

I would also like to know how the country is defended against aggressions in the absence of an army.

MaxInDHouse:
Any church that there members are into the military services!

When their political leaders order them to go and kill their enemies none of them thinks twice about Jesus' command again! John 13:34-35

Abeg who is their ruler, Jesus or their fellow imperfect humans? Act 5:29

My dear, if there's no army in a country, who defends the country against aggressions?

MaxInDHouse:
You're really funny o!

So when people agree to settle their scores in within themselves without resorting to violence they're not peaceful shey?

Perhaps you misconstrued being peaceful to being perfect.

For your information there is no organization of imperfect humans without complaints but then when God promised that His worshipers will settle their disparities peacefully among themselves it doesn't mean there won't be any disputes but they will make sure it doesn't lead to violence! Isaiah 2:2-4

Will you then tell me the churches that use violence to settle their scores? Add incidental references.

MaxInDHouse:
What is the assignment Jesus gave his disciples and what are they expected to achieve with that work?

Let me answer the question then you can do the same based on your own understanding of the scriptures.

Jesus is the Prince of Peace {Isaiah 9:6} so all his disciples throughout the globe must reflect that quality as WITNESSES to the fact that the Prince of Peace has walked this planet by forming a global family of peace loving worshipers in the name of the Prince of Peace! Act 1:8 compare to Isaiah 2:2-4

That's what Jehovah's Witnesses are doing today!

Now answer the question!

Let me tell you, many Christian organizations are doing serious Evangelism today. Deeper Life especially. Winners, Redeem, etc. Twice every year, Redeemed organizes programs called 'Go a fishing' all for the purpose of evangelism apart from the regular day to day evangelism they do. If you enter a bus and see someone suddenly preaching the gospel in that bus, there's 99% chance that the preacher ISN'T a JW. That still does not prove that they're doing the will of God.

I have given you response to show you that there's no peace among you guys. The fruits you bear on Nairaland is enough for us.

Let me tell you the proof that people are doing the will of God, straight from the scriptures:

"Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands sure, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.” 2 Timothy 2:19

There's no other measure or yardstick for determining someone doing the will of God. Going everywhere to teach the doctrines of devils is not the same as doing the will of God.