₦airaland Forum

otipoju:
Guy just shut up please you are not making any sense.

I have consistently asked you pertinent questions that you have had no answer for other than regurgitating things that have been programmed to you like a robot.

I've weighed you on the scales of biblical exegesis and you are as light as a feather.

The person you are talking to spent 5 good years in O.A.U Ile-Ife studying the various expressions of Religion and Philosophy in an academic setting with critical thinkers as lecturers.

Seminary trained and ordained Reverends and Pastors from various demoninations were my class mates and Lecturers.

Go and take several back seats for you are what we used to call back the " untrained bible readers".

You know nothing about Christianity...you can continue to do your unintelligible blabbing like a mad man and be deceiving yourself that you are speaking in tounges.

Shekerebo bobo madush ma ga gusky.

Whatever the hell that means to you.

God told the Israelites to burn incense to him in prayers but your big head here is telling me that it is demonic and because it is not commanded by Jesus Christ.

Keep deceiving yourself okay? What question have you asked that I have not answered? Now, refer me back to your questions!!

This shows clearly that you're deliberately in the business of deception. You couldn't defend your weird practices, yet you're resorting to lies and blackmail. I would continue to expose you on this forum since you're bent on leading people to hell.

Agents of darkness disguising as agents of light shall be exposed and the God of heaven shall bring His heavy judgement upon them. May the judgement of God come speedily on every satanic agent who refuses to repent in Jesus mighty name!!

otipoju:
You still have not shown one single demonic practice. Everything I have brought up has basis in the Bible.

That you call them demonic 500 million times does not erase the fact that they are from the bible and commanded by God at one time or the other.

I know your type very well and when confronted with facts..you just keep screaming your opinion believing that if you scream loud enough people will be convinced.

This emotional blackmail wouldn't work bro. I and a few others have been the only ones who have been confronting you with facts here. All your flawed defences fell like a pack of cards. If your practices cannot stand the light of God's Word, how will they stand the test of fire? Remember every man's work shall be tested with fire.

We serve a very mercifully God who is also terrible in judgement. How long are we going to live in this world that we would use the little time spent to buy eternal damnation for our souls?

I do not intend to condemn you, but to bring certain things to your notice so that whenever it shall be your turn to meet the Lord, you shall meet him fully prepared and ready. You're not hurting me, you're hurting your soul if you refuse to heed whatever the Spirit of God is telling you right now through our conversations together.

otipoju:
Your brain is either very dense or you are deliberately avoiding the obvious errors in your argument that I am showing you of your hypocrisy.

You are quoting Hebrew and the words of another person. My question is did Jesus command you to pay tithes? Of course you know the answer is no.

You said it is only what Jesus commands that is Christian. And so because Jesus did not COMMAND certain practices that we derive from the bible...therefore they are demonic.

That is why I brought the issue of tithes.of course we pay tithes in the Celestial Church of Christ...because it is an eternal principle.

The animals story is not a secret, it is contained in the history part of our written constitution. It is not a secret and we understand what hey mean.


Peter saw a vision of unclean animals and was told to kill and eat because God had made them clean...as a clear direction that God saw the gentiles as part of his kingdom...unlike the preexisting mindset of the Jews.

There was a message that God was passing to Oschoffa with the with the using the animals as illustration....we know them.

He saw a monkey with wings, saw a Snake and he saw a Peacock.

As Celestains we know exactly what those symbols mean and the lessons that Jesus Christ was using them to pass across to him.

But for you to insinuate that they gave him power is outright stupidity on your part.

What power does a monkey, peacock or a snake has to give to a human being?

The winged monkey moving from branch to branch represented the manner with which the Church would spread globally in no delibrate, calculated fashion.

The Peackock represented Pride in ones beauty that the Church should be careful to avoid...because of the power and gifts that God had bestowed upon it.

The Snake represented Deeceit that its members should be careful to abstain from.

Like I told you you know nothing and your head is filled with hot air.

Christianity is not about merely quoting scriptures..you need to understand.

Deceivers and liars would never change. They show their true colors always. I've exposed you and that's why you're embittered.

In all my posts, I maintained that, your actions have not example from Jesus Christ, nor His apostles. You're quoting scripture upside down to defend demonism.

Let's hear from Jesus Christ directly about tithe:

But woe unto you Pharisees! For ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgement and the love of God: these ought ye to have done and not to leave the other undone." Luke 11:42

In that scripture above Jesus clearly told the Pharisees that they should not focus on tithing alone, they should also do justice without leaving tithing undone.

You don't have any scriptural basis for your demon practices yet you grow offended when it was pointed out to you. A true servant of Christ would have considered the error of his ways, go back to the Bible, study more in a bid to put himself back in right standing with God. But you see, a mesanger of Satan never wants to hear the truth. He hates it. He attacks it and even resort to blackmail just as you're doing right now. It's not you, it's the spirit of the devil who wouldn't want you to embrace light.

Whatever you make of Osoffa's vision is irrelevant right now. The truth is that some practices in your Church are against the word of God. They're are mostly occultic practices!

If you're sincere with yourself, and really cherish your soul, you'll do everything within your might to bring yourself back into alignment with God. That's what will matter at the end of time. It would never be erased from the records in heaven that someone told you the truth but you blatantly rejected it, choosing falsehood, and preferring the gates of hell more that gates of heaven.

otipoju:
Actions that God commanded and things that can clearly be found in the Bible are demonic and occultic ...just because you the second Almighty says so.

Irrelevant thing dey call himself something.

Get off your high horse...that slander no longer works with us.

You're an agent of Satan otherwise you wouldn't even follow a leader who received his ministerial commission through an encounter with a monkey, bird and a snake. Using the scriptures as a cover-up cannot help you. Repent before it is too late.

otipoju:
Doing what Jesus did not command is an innocent activity? Robbing people of 10 percent of their sweat is not an innocent activity. It is stealing by trick and a Mammon worshipper you are.

You can judge that if you're God. The Bible commands tithe, perhaps you don't know.

Hebrews 7:8 says "And here men that die (The Levites, Pastors, etc) receive tithes, but there He (Jesus) receiveth them (tithes) of whom it is witnessed that He liveth forever."

You want to capitalize on that because I didn't want to drag it with you?

The scriptures says that as men receives tithes here, Jesus Christ is indirectly receiving it in heaven!

Your activities are demonic. Changing the topic to talk about tithe does not change the fact that you guys engage in occultism, misleading many people and sending souls to hell under the guise of preaching the gospel. God shall bring you all to judgement.

otipoju:
If I follow your reasoning, then the Bible is fetish.

Thank you and learn to mind your own business. When you get to church on Sunday remember to tell your pastor not to collect tithes because Jesus did not command it.

If anyone collects tithes, that's a neutral innocent activity that doesn't involve demonism. What we condemn are your apparent demonic activities. It's high time I told you the truth.

Anas09:
That one is worst sef.
On the 23rd of May 1947, there was an eclipse of the sun, Oshoffa was lost in the forest (The Forest of Transformation). When the eclipse cleared, he saw a Snake, a Monkey and a Bird. Suddenly, he heard a voice voice saying Luli', which he understood to mean 'The Grace of Jesus Christ'. The monkey was white, it had two teeth. One up, one down. The monkey had wings, and had legs like that of a Bat.

The bird had yellow feet, yellow beak and a long tail.
The snake was very short (1ft long). He started playing with the short snake afterwards, he felt different. In the inner circle of the CCC, it is believed that the source is Oshoffa's power is from the snake.

Goggle it. It's there in the internet.

Thanks for the clarification about Oshoffa. I've heard the luli luli stuff before but I didn't have these details. You can see why these guys on Nairaland would never accept anything contrary to their church doctrines? They were fully aware of what they were involving themselves in even before signing up. There's no way you can hear a founder sharing this kind of experience like that of Oshoffa without knowing for sure that it's a demonic encounter. They know they're not serving the Lord but want to use scriptures as a camouflage to defend falsehood. Even a complete novice in the things of God knows that a man commissioned by a monkey, bird and snake is a messenger of hell.

See how Dijijiji rushed to deny your clarifications about Orimolade. He knows fully well that such an experience is satanic. He'll prefer it not be mentioned here. They're not ignorant of what they're doing. These are workers of darkness disguising themselves as agents of light.

Please if you.know anything about Movement Church, kindly share. God bless you real good.

Didijiji:
your type are all the people Daddy Freeze call sheeples…. Easily brain washed with little or no self thinking ability? So you just read that snake met Orimolade and whether it is your or not, you accepted the jargon and even went further to paint it that snake commissioned the church?

May God forgive all of you

My brother, emotional blackmail would not work here. If you have a deferring opinion, say it. Did he lie? If he did, then clarify the lies and tell us exactly how Moses Orimolade was commissioned into ministry.

otipoju:
How you perceive our church has zero effect on our faith.

Have you ever visited or sat down an a celestial church of christ, have you ever picked up a Celestial Church of Christ hymnbook to read understand the church beliefs religious beliefs?

I am sure you answer is no.

My big question to you is still, if these items that you are agree are found in the Bible and used in one way or the other in worshipping God....why do you label them as fetish or demonic...because Christ did not command it?

Okay if we want to use your logic now answer these questions?

Did Jesus command you to pay tithe? Why do your pastors collect tithes.

Did Jesus command you to use anointing oil? Why do your pastors use anointing oil?

Did Jesus command you to speak in tounges? Why then do you blabbing unintelligible nonsense

Did Jesus command you sing? Whey then do you sing in church.

Did Jesus command you to play musical instruments in church, why then do you do so?

Did Jesus command you to build physical churches? Why then do you build church buildings?

Did Jesus command your Pastors to collect offerings every service? Why do your pastors do so?

I can go on and on but I have another question for you?

Did the Son of God begin to exist only after he was born as flesh, or was he already active in the world before his birth?

Does commandments by God to the Israelites his chosen ones become irrelevant because Jesus did not command it.

You are very very asleep. The Bible is not a novel and should not be treated as one.

The gospel of Christ is not complex...it is simply for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him may not perish but have everlasting life.

My brother, your practices are labelled fetish because they are. Not because of anything else. You yourself know this in the innermost part of your being that those things are not right. You've tried to use the Bible to cover up many things, and I have exposed the flaws in your defences.

Be sincere with yourself. Your practices are occultic. The occult do exactly the same things you do.

I do not condemn the white garment you wear or your barefootedness. Those are very neutral and inocent activities that you do for reasons best known to you. But to bath in rivers, burn candles, make sacrifices and the other weird things you do is absolutely against the gospel. These are practices you would find in all occult temples including Guru Maraji. These things are totally against the scriptures. They are very questionable. These are highly demonic practices that are widely known in the occult.

For example, candles are used for conjuring demons. Each candle has its own purpose according to its colours. There's a way to position them and there are things to say to make the demons manifest. It can either appear physically or possess someone. The same goes for incense. It's satanic. This is not the gospel Jesus brought. We have been forwarned and instructed to reject anyone who brings us another gospel which is different from that which was delivered unto us by Christ and His Apostles and Prophets who are the foundations of the Church, with Jesus Himself being the Chief Corner Stone.

My brother, if indeed you have heaven as your goal, and you desire that Christ meets you on that day with open arms to welcome you into the everlasting kingdom of God, you need to renounce these practices and repent. You might have done those things in ignorance but God is still interested in your soul. Salvage your soul before it is too late. Jesus Christ is still waiting for you. He loves you nonetheless.

Anas09:
You can without a doubt vouch for that? Sir, do you know that Moses Orimolade was into Timber business when one of those days he was in the forest cutting wood when a snake appeared to him with a human face, with only one tooth of a human, speaking with the voice of a human, telling him that he was chosen to serve God in the capacity of a prophet?
This creature presented itself like a special Angel to Moses Orimolade.
Do you know that this was the encounter he had that made him leave his business and ventured ministry? Pls tell me how this can be from Jesus.

The name alone "Cherubim and Seraphim" signifise that their adherence is to Arch Angels instead of Jesus. Sir, do you know that humans are not permitted to summon Angels for anything? We are to petition YHWH, they Jesus will dispatch Angels to attend to us.

Sir, Cherubim and Seraphim worships Angels, and it's a sin. Angels don't accept worship from men. So, any Angel who accepts worship from men is not from God. That's Satan sir.


In true Christianity, miracles, signs and wonders are not the bases to judge a true Christian or a ministry backed my Jesus the founder of the church. The word of God and the sound doctrine primarily based on the scripture is what we use in judging the member of the body of Christ.

Jesus warned us to watch out, because when false prophets come, it is miracles they will use to decieve many.



How wow. This what I was looking for. I need someone to put me through. If they are solely Scriptural doctrines in S&C that are not extra Biblical, I wld need to know. So, tell me sir. God bless.

How so? Didn't Cele break out of S&C?
The name Celestial -Means 'Heavenly body'. Extra Terrestrial.
The Earth is Terrestrial, the spiritual is Celestial. Still worship of Angels. But this is more marine that sky.


All of the white Garment churches have very weird encounters. Very weird.

Wow, you're very knowledgeable about these white garment churches. So, it was a snake with human head that commissioned Orimolade? Wonders shall never end. That's surely a demonic commissioning. Thank you for the enlightenment. Meanwhile, the ignorant members would be looking for scriptures to back up those weird encounters. They'll start turning the word of God upside down and start misinterpreting scriptures.

There's a white garment church that pulled out from C&S. They're called Movement. I don't know much about them but they don't burn candies, go to rivers or do incantations. I visited one of their pastors some years ago and was shocked to see Kenneth Hagin's books on his table. I'm not conversant with their entire doctrines and activities but I know they're different.

Please tell me more about how Cele was founded. I'll really appreciate it. I think it's high time I started researching deeply into these things.

Anas09:
No, that's not what I mean. I really don't know much about them, except what I have read about them, (Who their founders were, and the encounters they had before starting the organizations).

They all have connections with water. Sacrificing to the water or besides the water mostly at nights.

The summoning and the seemingly worship (adulation) of Angels which the Bible highly prohibits.

But, I will like for someone to put me through. Is what I have read and what I have listened to people say lies?

Far back, in this forum, there has been very serious discussions about the operations of the white Garment churches. Their former members (deep insiders and elders) revealed not so comfortable (unchristian) practices going on there.

Like I said, Pastor David came out from there. He was born and raised inside. Some of his family I believe are still there. So, he shd know what he is talking about.

You can just imagine. Their founders even have connections with rivers and perform sacrifices at nights. Well, I think that should apply to Celestial. Moses Orimolade who founded C&S was a true man of God. The C&S was bastardized after him when his successors couldn't replicate the miracles he performed. They resorted to unwholesome fetish practices to keep their members. You can see a few Godly C&S churches today but they're very rare. The same cannot be said of Cele. The very foundation of that church is faulty.

Would you care to share what you read about Osofa? I read a lot of different stories about him. I don't even know what to believe. All the stories about his call to ministry are actually very weird.

otipoju:
So you know better than Elijah who told Naaman to go bath in the river to heal his leprosy.

Or you know better than Jesus christ who told the blind man to go WASH his eyes with WATER?

Or you know better than the Almighty God who told Moses to take off his sandals and be barefooted because where he stood in his precense had become Holy Ground.

Finally go and read the book of Revelations, Isaiah, Ezekiel and other prophets who had visions into heaven and the throne of God.

You will see a lot of angels,white garments,lighted lamps representing the seven spirits of God, holding of palm fronds by the redeemed saints and regular burning of incense during prayers around God's heavenly throne....that is the heaven that you are aspiring to go to ooo.

If these are common place in heaven, how can you in your right senses say that they are fetish?

Understanding of biblical Spiritual matters is not for the proud.

And let me give you a bit of perspective. In the late 80's and early to mid 90's when the new Pentecostal churches started springing up. Their mantra was to demarket Celestial Church of Christ by calling them demonic.

Sadly most of our fathers then walked by faith and had childhoods where it was the Clergy only that had access to bibles and readand preached to the laity...so many did not understand or know the scriptural basis for what they did.

All they knew was they had witnessed the power of God in the Celestial Church of Christ.

Interestingly these abuses made our church leadership begin to research the bible for biblical foundations for our faith and practices. They were amazed by what they found and established Sunday schools for parishes, a central bible fellowship and Bible classes in various parishes as well.

The beauty of it is that after the hard work of about a decade and half, you had the average young Celestial with a firm grasp and understanding of the biblical basis for everything that we did.

Everything was explained with biblical passages backing them. Worship, Music, Prayer items , reason for the church and more importantly living a moral righteous life with contentment and kindness to others in humility.

A lot of new adult members too over time have teachers who can explain the why's of whatever we do.

We pay no homage or have any allegiance to Satan or demons as they are our eternal enemies.

We are not afraid of the devil, his demons and his human agents and rebuke them in the name of Jesus.

We praise and pray humbly Jehovah and command his angels to carry out God's will for us because we are more than conquerors and he has promised to never leave us or forsake us.

We know we are saved by the precious blood of Jesus Christ that was shed for the remission of our sins and try to live a lifestyle worthy of his name and pleasing to him.

If that is not enough for you...you can continue your false unintelligible blabbing that you call speaking in diverse tounges.

But when you see wetin pass you, you will run come our church and the Spirit of Christ will reveal the source and solutions to your problems with laser aimed prayer points to help solve them.

Adios

Elisha told Naaman to go wash and be healed, did he actually do that to anyone else? Was it not a specific instruction from God to Naaman? Are your church members Naaman? Do they have leprosy? After Jesus put mud in the eyes of the blind man, wouldn't he wash off the mud? If Jesus chose for him to go wash in a pool, was that not specific to him? Did Christ do the same to anybody else? Did the apostles make a doctrine out of it? Do your church members have mud in their eyes? I'm afraid you're misinterpreting scriptures.

Interestingly, the holy ground where Moses was asked to put off his sandals was situated in Midan. Did God ever tell Moses afterwards in all his journeys with God to put off his sandals? Even when he climbed holy mountains such as Sinai and Horeb, was he ever asked to put off his sandals? Even Joshua his servant never did. We should expect that the holiest grounds would be in Israel or at least in Jerusalem, most especially the locations of the Tabernacle and the Temple. Did God ever instruct the children of Israel to put off their sandals in any of those places? The Midian episode was just a one time episode. It never recurred. Why make a doctrine of it when even Moses and the Israelites never did? Anyway, walking bare footed isn't sin. That doesn't stop anyone from making heaven except you have some rituals attached to it, but it's an unnecessary discomfort. It neither adds nor take anything from you. God wouldn't reward anyone for walking barefooted all his life. He wouldn't punish the person either. The person already punished himself enough.

Yeah, we see all those things done in heaven. They were done in heaven, they were never commanded to to be done on earth. And all those things were symbols. You might never get to see them when you get to heaven. Symbols would remain symbols. When you have the real thing, what would you need symbols for? The symbols were just for the purpose of the visions. For example, if the seven lamps were not symbolized, how would we know that there are seven Spirits of God? That's the purpose the symbols serve. You don't know better than the Lord Jesus and the Apostles who never used them. They didn't even make any allusion to them in all the over 100yrs of their ministries. John the Revelator himself who received the revelations never used them. He was the longest living apostle in his days, he never used any of those stuffs you're using. He didn't deliver it to his proteges. Even Polycarp, who was one of John's strongest disciples would consider your practices to be strange and completely alien. He served as a Bishop for complete 84yrs after the death of John, he never remembered to burn one candle. It seems you even know better than John who had the revelations.

My brother, we won't burn any physical candles in heaven. They were just symbols. The incense represents the prayers of the saints. Each time we pray, we're burning spiritual incense. God has no respect for physical incense. The white garments represent the righteousness of the saints. Candles were only used in the Holy of Holies in the Old Testament. Incense and candles are shadows in the old Testaments, in the new, prayer is the real body for incense and the indwelling Presence of the Holy Spirit is the real body for the candles. The shadow has been done away with. Or would you condemn Jesus and His apostles for not burning incense or candles like you do? Please stop making all these weak defences.

I was involved in the Pentecostal revolutions of the 80s and 90s. I have first hand experience of how Pentecostalism started in Nigeria. There was no demarketing whatsoever. It was Deeper Life that actually demarketed all other churches in its early days. And truly, Kumuyi walked in the power of God which was a rare occurrence in the ,70s. As a matter of fact, everyone knows that Cele is fetish. Even sinful youths know very well to avoid Cele girls because they're believed to be fetish. They're afraid a cele girl could ruin their lives. Please I just need to tell you the truth because you may not even know how your church is perceived out there. People attend the church only when they have no other option. After being there for many years, they'll find out that when one problem leaves, some other 10 would surface. They continue solving one problem or the other all their lives. Finally, some of them find their ways into Pentecostal churches where they get delivered. The other day I was praying for a group of just 7 people. Immediately I laid hands on the first person on the line, the woman who was at the other end of the line began falling and rising. I have not even touched her. It wasn't her turn yet. We weren't even conducting deliverance, just a normal prayer for blessings. That woman scattered the whole place that day. Later I was told after the service that the woman was a new member of that church, and that she came in from Cele. Everyone said said no wonder!

My brother, let's leave denominationalism aside. If Christ comes today, would He be pleased with the strange and weird things you do? Do you really think you're serving Jesus or you have another Master? Jesus never commanded us to do any of those weird things. Who exactly do you serve? Who's your master?

There are powers my brother. There are powers. Even the magicians of Egypt countered Moses with their powers. They replicated some of the miracles Moses did. But what was their source? The source is what matters. Not every miracle is from God.

Please look deeply into your source. The so called biblical explanations your clergy gave you are flawed. Very flawed. Who knows maybe God could use you to bring a revolution and reintroduce the true gospel into the Celestial church. We would be so glad to see someone kindle the fire of revival in the white garment churches.
These conversations are not happening for nothing. Please note that your loyalty should be to Christ and not to your denomination.

CC:
Didijiji

Didijiji:
my brother if you collect tithe, first fruit, collect consultation fee, sell anointing sticker, anointing handkerchief and anointing oil Christ did not command you need to repent if so

Thanks my brother.

As I said earlier, all those who do these are charlatans. They're merchants pretending to be men of God under the guise of Pentecostalism. Please run away from such.

otipoju:
Some of your words make sense...but most is just a pile of misguided nonsense.

Jesus himself said " I felt power leave me" ..you are still insisting no..that is not what he meant. I leave you to you.

But its common sense that If anything has demonstrated the ability increase, it invariably also has the ability to decrease.

The precense of God is not the same as the Power of God. Stop mixing stuff.

I may be present at a place but not demonstrate my power. Power is different from precense. God is omnipresent but does not manifest his precense to man's five senses all the time.

He is omni potent but does not demonstrate his power all the time.
Gods precense does not automatically translate to him demonstrating his power.

The gift of tounges is the spiritual gift that that enables a person to speak a language that he did not learn. No more no less.

You have no single biblical proof to say the "gift of tounges" is different from "speaking in tounges." You are engaging in what we call circular definition.

You are also saying the made up mindless unintelligible blabbing that you guys speak is the gift of speaking in tounges. May God forgive you. That is what I will tell you. If you repeat meaningless words enough your memory and brain will become accustomed to it and you can pile upon it. It is still not a language.

I have seen people who speak actually speak in tounges. The first is yoruba man, who starts to speak Arabic whenever the Spirit of God descends on him. that he never learned it and cannot speak it until he is in Spirit.

I have seen another man who can speak the language of birds. He will be cooing like a pidgen and delivering messages. An interpreter who has the gift of interpretation of tounges will be beside him to translate. She would translate and the person who came to consult God will confirm that the revelations from the cooing match with events in his or her life.

I know because I used to sit there and transcribe the messages. Same thing with the Arabic tounged prophet.

So dear, I know exactly what speaking in tounges and prophecy is.

As a member of the Celestial Church of Christ, we know and understand why Jesus Christ founded our denomination.
It is a " life problem's"solving Church where people come to for solutions.
It is not a motivational speaking center.

To carry out the Churches mandate, Jesus Christ empowered the church with his Spirit.. and the testimony of Christ the Spirit of prophecy.

When your members have challenges that surpass their brains and social connections...they know where they come to encounter the wisdom and power of God...we are always ready with open arms to minister to their needs.

Yes we know that due to the nature of our divine commission, some dark elements masquerade as true celestians to commit atrocities and take advantage of members of the public. But any true Celestian is quickly able to identify them by their actions and doings.

I know currently the church adapts the mindset of let the weed and wheat grow together, and God will judge everyone...but we might have to start doing some internal cleansing.

Doctrine wise...I have examined all our doctrines and I have not found any one that does not have a biblical precedent or example.


I am glad that you got off your high horse and admitted that it is not all perfect in pentecostal churches so I'll let you be with a final admonition: who are you to judge another man's servant. We worship Jesus Christ, believe in the salvific power of his name and blood,constantly rebuke the devil and his spiritual and human agents and expect to be admitted into heaven after our time on earth.


Live and let live. With all the thousands of pentecostal churches in every nook and cranny of the country, you lots are the most thieving,double faced, corrupt and dubious humans on the planet.

All talk, and no real adherence to the leading of Christ.

Rest abeg!!!

Smiling.

My brother, I don't know you or what you do but if you burn candles and incense, bath people in rivers, conduct midnight rituals and do any of the things Christ Jesus did not command, you need to repent.

I'm not judging you. I can't judge His servants, 'to his master, he standeth or fall.' However, I can be my brother's keeper, and my brother can be my keeper too.

There's no perfect church anywhere. We're all working towards perfection. Our ultimate goal is to please the Master and complete our assignments accordingly to His expectations.

The fact that you've witnessed people who speak in tongues is an indication that tongues have not ceased. They're still as relevant today as they were in the days of the apostles.

The gift of tongues which a man receives as one of the gifts of the Spirit is very much different from the baptism of the Holy Spirit. When you're baptised in the Holy Spirit, you speak in tongues as evidence. This evidence is not the gift of tongues. The gift you received is the gift of the Holy Spirit also called the Promise of the Father. The Gift of the Holy Spirit which comes with the evidence of tongue is different from the gift of Tongues. Infact, the gift of tongues gives the ability to speak several languages, not just one. That's why it's called the Gift of Tongues - Plural. It is often accompanied with the gift of interpretation of tongues. While the Gift of the Holy Spirit (Holy Ghost Baptism) is available for every child of God, the gift of tongues is for selected individuals. Not everyone can have the gift of tongues but everyone can have the Gift of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. There's a clear demarcation between the two. In fact, 1Cor. 12:10 says ...to another, diverse kinds of tongues." That is to say as the Spirit distributes according to His will, He gives some gifts to one, and to another He gives the ability to speak diverse tongues. Meanwhile the Gift of the Holy Spirit which the disciples received on the day of Pentecost is for all. Peter said: ...for the promise is into you, and to your children; and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. Acts 2:39. Before then, Peter had told the crowd of Elamites, Pathians, Greecians, Egyptians, Medes and all the Nationals of the various countries witnessing the event on that day 'Repent and be baptised, everyone of you... for the remmission of your sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:38. Meanwhile, the gift of diverse tongues in 1Corinthians 12:10 is not for everyone. I suppose you can see the difference now.

Research more into what you're calling mindless babblings. You don't have the correct information about what we do, why we do it and how it happens among us. The Pentecostal movement has positively influenced other Orthodox denominations, Baptists, Anglicans, Methodists, etc. Even Catholics are not left out with the Charismatic renewal movement.
What do you think they saw after years of criticisms and internal persecutions?

Let's talk briefly about the power of God. When the Presence of God is with you, you're a carrier of the power of God because you can manifest that Presence anywhere. Witches and wizards and all the powers of darkness would avoid you because they know you carry power. The Presence of God in a man's life is the power of God upon His life. The Presence of God in the life of Samson was God's power in his life. When the Spirit of God departed from him, he wanted to go out and do as he usually does, not knowing that "the Spirit of the Lord had departed from him." The moment the Spirit of God leaves you, you're powerless.

The manifestation of power is in accordance to intimacy, and intimacy is developed through personal fellowship. The more you fellowship, the more intimate you become, and the more the intimacy, the greater the manifestation. There's nothing like increasing or decreasing, or the draining of power. There can only be increased intimacy leading to increased manifestation and vice versa. Power moved from Christ to heal the woman the same way it moves from Him to heal everyone. That's why He said, 'Someone touched me.' He didn't say someone polluted me or oh, someone has defiled me. Power moved out of Him every time someone is healed. He knew someone has had a miracle. He was never drained. Never stained. Never polluted. Never corrupted. A woman's menses is not a threat to the supernatural power of God.

I don't know why you have so much disdain for Pentecostals. Every Church denomination knows to be wary of white garment churches especially celestial. It is generally believed that they're diabolical. This position is not a Pentecostal position, it's general. That's why you usually make friends amongst yourselves.

There are many thieving, double faced, corrupt and dubious humans in Celestial churches, and this is well known. I think you should look into that. Those guys who charge money to conduct deliverance for people, or sell holy water, special anointing oil, etc are not Pentecostals. They're charlatans. Be wary of them.

CC:
Didijiji

otipoju:
I will leave you to it. The Bible is very clear enough on all we have talked about.

Although I am a Celestian, I am very very conversant with Pentecostal doings...for 5 good years I had Pastors and Reverend as class mates...and I really see una finish.

Of the about 18 of them, not one inspired me as a good example of Christianity in any way. From cheating during tests and exams to sleeping with our female course mates to, petty bickering and lack of kindness. It will be very hard to place any "man made god" on a pedestal .

I also attended a number of Pentecostal and orthodox churches out of curiosity as an adult and by circumstances as a child.

Deeper life, Jehovah witnesses, Catholic Church, Anglican Communion, Redeemed, Four square, Christ Embassy, CAC, TREM, this Chris Okoties church where they use to pick us from our neighborhood in buses and pay us a token for coming to church and filling up chairs.

Power left me is power left me...but here you are giving it your own interpretation to suit your agenda.And if you ever jump started a dead car battery you will understand.

Electric power from a running car with a good car battery is used to to power up the dead car battery by CONNECTING them with cables...some electric currents will LEAVE the good battery and resurrect the dead one.

The woman got healed when power left Jesus's body and transferref to hers . That power stopped the unceasing death carrying fluid in her body and restored her to wholeness.

In this modern era where all the countries in the world and the languages they speak are well documented and easily translated with your mobile phone is what you are saying nonsense for.

Every language has structure, tonation Even though I may not understand what the words a person is saying, one can easily differentiate mindless blabbing from a language. The beauty of the Speaking in tounges is that by the power of the Holy Spirit, an individual is becomes able to speak a language that he did not learn at all. Wether as a child or as an adult.

What happened on Pentecost day was for a purpose, God knew that there were a lot of foreigners there on that day and chose to speak with them in their language using individuals that never learned the language. He displayed his power as Lord of the Universe and explained the good news of salvation in christ to them. Those unbelievers tool that good news back to their home countries...and so the gospel spread around the world from that incident.

Most of those who received that gift retained the gift and Paul in his letters made it known that the gift had served its purpose already and they should keep it private unless they had someone who can interprete... instead they should ask for a more practical gift...the ability to prophesy.

When a man in trouble or confusion comes to you as a Christian, and as a prophet you are able to be shown his past present and future and the source and solution to his problem, you stand a greater chance of converting him to Christianity than speaking in a foreign tounge.

The Spirit of Prophecy which is the Spirit of Christ is what the Celestial Church of Christ has among its members both young and old , male and female in Abundance...and that is why you see people rushing to the church when they have problems or are confused. The Spirit of Christ shines a light into the darkness of their life solves the problems and in recognition of Christ's lordship become Celestians themselves.

Many Pentecostal churches and Pastors do not have this gift at all or on a large scale and that is where the jealousy and demarketing comes from....dem hate to loose customers wey dem no fit satisfy their spiritual needs.

Power is not the "presence" of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit may be present and choose not to exercise power. Power is the ability to make something happen.

Luke 2:40 says of Jesus. And the Child grew and became strong in spirit, filled with wisdom; and the grace of God was upon Him.

If they child grew and became strong in spirit, one can infer that at he time he was not as strong in spirit at age 7 compared to age 12 for instance. Meaning if spiritual power can grow, it can also be depleted.

One again Jesus words were very clear.."I felt power leave me. " contact with the menstruating woman drained his power so much that he noticed even in that large crowd of many people touching him at the same time. The woman's faith did not drain him of power, the depth of her prolonged condition required power to heal.

And who told you that it is only sin that hinders the Holy Spirit's operation...and by extension answers to prayers.You clearly need to read your Bible from Genesis to Revelation properly to understand the Spiritual landscape.

Pray for understanding bro. God does not live in that box that you try to fit him into.

I spent 5 good years of from.my late teens to early twenties studying God and Religion in a formal and academic setting and have experienced the power and miracles of God in my life.

Nothing new wey you want tell me. I be practical Christian.

Truth be told, there are bad eggs in all denominations. That's why my emphasis isn't on personalities but denominational doctrines. I can also talk about many pastors of celestial churches who have a reputation for defiling female members but that would be offboard if I use that to judge the entire celestial church as you're judging the Pentecostals. I'll focus on doctrines, not on men because false prophets and apostles are everywhere.

The Power of God is the Presence and manifestation of the Holy Spirit. The car battery analogy does not fit in. No Holy Spirit, no power. You experience power when the Holy Ghost makes things happen through you. You're not the one making things happen, it's the Holy Ghost.

Even in the life of Samson, shortly before he manifests super-human abilities, you'll read "...and the Spirit of God came upon him." He is the One at work when the sick are healed; the dead are raised to life or whenever any miracle happens in the name of Jesus. He can't be drained. There's no biblical basis for that. The inferences you're drawing are purely your own derivatives. Let Jesus say it Himself that power was drained from him, don't put words in His mouth.

The celestial church isn't envied by Pentecostals. That's untrue. You yourself know that you cannot biblically explain many of your practices. Almost everybody is aware that many celestial churches perform fetish rites. This neither Jesus nor the apostles did. Again, do it the way they did it. You'll have the same results. Do not add anything to it. if the Bible and prayer is not enough for you, then I don't know what you want. If Celestial churches are manifesting the power of God in line with scriptures without those weird practices, Pentecostals would freely mingle with them and regard them as co-workers with God. There's no room for envy. I'll gladly learn from you if your mode of operation isn't questionable.

The Pentecostal movement I Nigeria is greatly influenced by the west. We beat drums, speak in tongues, heal the sick, conduct deliverance and prophesy, not by copying celestial Churches but through the mentorship of men of God from the West. People like Kenneth Hagin, Oral Robert, Kenneth Copeland, Billy Graham and others influenced such men as Benson Idahosa who in turn influenced David Oyedepo and others who have become founding founders of present day Pentecostalism in Nigeria. There's no influence of celestial churches. When your practices don't resemble that of Jesus but bears a striking resemblance to a juju priest, you make us dissociate ourselves from you. Especially when you cannot biblically explain what you're doing.

I laughed when you said Paul wrote that the gift of speaking in tongues has already fulfilled its purpose and so people should be silent. Would you show me that from the scriptures? The gift of tongues is different from the speaking in tongues that comes during Holy Ghost baptism. And all the 9 gifts the apostle Paul wrote about were given full explanations which clearly showed their importance in Paul's letter to the Corinthians. I can't remember Paul saying a particular gift was no longer necessary.

The purpose of tongues is primarily personal edification. And throughout the scriptures, there's no record that the operation of any gift is terminated. I'll be glad if you can prove me wrong.

Yeah, every language has structures. When I started, I spoke in few syllables. Like a child learning a new language, as I continued to speak it in my private prayer life, it grew until I have reached the stage I am now. You'll call it mindless babblings the first day I ever spoken but today, I speak clear coherent languages by the Spirit of God. Don't base your judgement on those who stopped speaking in tongues the day they got baptised. They'll never grow and so each time they speak during a gathering, they'll speak repeated syllables which you call mindless babblings. Meanwhile, they're still edifying themselves.

Yeah Christ grew and became strong in Spirit. That doesn't imply that He could be drained. Regular fellowship with Holy Spirit brings more intimacy and therefore greater manifestation. The Spirit of God would move through you depending on your level of relationship with Him. You can't drain the power of God my brother.

CC:
Didijiji

otipoju:
Speaking in strange tounges is not unintelligible language. "Strange tounges "is old English for "foreign languages "
Just as they say "mother tounge" or " native tounge"

Your saying that that knowledge is higher than me is a proud way of deflecting when you have no answer and you know you are wrong.

The events of the day of Pentecost are described with no ambiguity. None of the Apostles was blabbing unintelligible. Everything they were saying while in the Spirit was understood by the foreigners who were saw them.

God used that special day to announce the gospel to the nation's. It was a sign for unbelievers who believed and took the gospel back to their home countries.

The blabbing that we see in pentecostal churches is not what happened on the day of Pentecost. So where did yall get yours from. Go back and read the events of the day of Pentecost. Foreigners who had assembled in Jerusalem could understand what the Apostles were saying.

Luke 8:46 records Jesus saying that someone touched me , for I know that power has gone out of me. If something leaves, it is a minus. And the word drained can be used. How much or or little i do not know but Jesus himself said he felt drained of power when the woman touched him . Her touch was different from everyone else.

You were not there that day to be saying authoritavely that a crowd thronged and swirled around Jesus and none of them were did not ask and was not expecting healing or anything except for one woman. That is false interpretation.

What you are doing is called " eisigesis " which is the act of reading your own meanings into the text instead of "exegesis " which is letting the text interprete themselves.

Your faith cannot drain the power of God.Provide at least 3 references for this claim of your if you insist it is true.

Its is not everything that one receives that was requested for. That's a big lie. That is why it is a gift. Something that was not requested for but was bestowed upon the receiver.

We have no record of prophets or Apostles or evangelists in the Bible kneeling down to ask God to gift them spiritual gifts. In nearly all cases they were going about their normal life when God turned them into his vessels and gave them.the requisite gifts to aid their ministry.

Now Paul advises that if you desire a particular gift...you are also free to ask. It is up to God to give you or not.

The day you began to speak in tounges...what language were you speaking? French, German, Hebrew, Arabic, Greek, Aramaic, Gaelic, Thai.Chinese. which one...abi it was your normal blabbing of nonsense that none of you can interprete because it is nonsense.

And what do you know about Prophecy? I hope it's not I prophesy that you will make it this year that your pastors like use to collect money from your hand.

We don't speak unintelligible language when we speak in tongues. It's unintelligible to you because you don't understand the language. Sometimes the tongues are interpreted, and everyone understands what is being said.

Those whom you hear repeating just one word all the time are people who have not grown up spiritually. I speak a whole language at a go by the grace of God. I don't speak repeated syllables. I speak several languages too.

If you don't understand Fanti language of Ghana, and you hear someone saying Mi da o asi, mi da o asi, mi da o si, several times, wouldn't that look unintelligible to you? Meanwhile that person is giving thanks to God. Mi da o asi means, I give you thanks. The same way your own native language would look unintelligible to someone who doesn't understand it. Paul explained it by saying the fellow would look like a barbarian to you. We're not talking about those who are faking it. There are those who fake it. That's completely unscriptural. Very wrong. The first time you're baptised, your tongue moves uncontrollably. You're not in control of what you're saying. What you're saying looks unintelligible to even you the speaker. But the Lord understands the language.

Look, we do not mix anything together or train people on what to say or do. It's just a simple prayer of faith:

"Lord, this Your servant has a desire to be filled by Your Presence and to be baptised by Your Holy Spirit. We come before You because You've promised that anyone who asks receives. Give him Lord your Holy Spirit as You did on the day of Pentecost. Do it Father, for we pray in Jesus name." That's all. We leave the rest to God and He never fails to answer. Sometimes, the person speaks a full language same day he was baptized, and there'll be interpretation. It is purely from above without any human input or interference. That's how it was on the day of Pentecost.

Regarding the woman with the issue of blood. I understand that you're a leader and most possibly heading a church. You wouldn't love to give up on this practice but I'll tell you the truth.

First, it is blasphemy to say the woman drained Jesus of His power. You don't seem to understand who Jesus is. Jesus cannot be said to possess the power of God. That's an understatement because He Himself is the Power. The Bible calls Him "...the wisdom of God and the power of God."

Now, you seem to think that power is something quantifiable which could be reduced or increased and therefore could be deducted, leading to a drain. No. Not so.

The power of God is simply the Presence of the Holy Spirit and His manifestation in our lives. That's why Jesus said, "Ye shall receive power after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you."

It's the work of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Spirit moves to do the things He wants to do, and He's not inhibited by a woman's mensural flow. Even Jesus said, "...the Father that dwells in me, He does the work. I can of my own self do nothing." What makes you think He could be drained? "For In Him dwelleth the fullness of the Godhead bodily."

Power isn't fluid. Though it moves like a river. It isn't drainable because it's a Person. The Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost Himself is called the Spirit of Christ.

For instance, if you're sharing your wisdom with someone from morning till night, wouldn't it sound absurd to you if someone suddenly walks in and says to the fellow you're sharing your wisdom with, "Leave the man alone, you've been receiving from his wisdom since morning, you're draining his wisdom." Just as wisdom cannot be drained, so also is power. Wisdom isn't fluid, same as power.

What happened was that Jesus knew that someone tapped from Him because He felt a sensation. And yeah, you could feel something like electric current coursing through you when you minister the power of God to somebody. You'll feel the Holy Spirit reaching out and touching someone. That's what Jesus felt. He was never drained.

We who are His servants never feel drained let alone the Lord. He's the source. And the source is infinite. Infinite and immeasurable manifestation of the Spirit of God. We are just channels. We're never sources. We're conduits through whom the Holy Ghost moves to bless lives. There's nothing like draining. It's heretic. And when used against the Lord, it's blasphemous. There's nowhere in the scriptures where the power of God was ever drained from someone. In the case of Samson, the Spirit of God simply departed from him. Only sin can obstruct the move of the Holy Ghost. Not menses. Menses may affect demons. Not the Spirit of God.

Regarding prophecies, yeah, we prophesy by the Spirit of God. "I prophesy into your life..." No, that's not prophesy. That's prophetic prayer. It's not telling you what has happened or what would happen. It's just a word of prayer. The same way Ezekiel prophesied to make the dry bones live. A prayer of command.

Prophecies usually start with "This saith the Lord." Or you could hear the man of God say "This is what God is telling me now..." That's prophecy or the Word of knowledge. We know the difference between prophetic prayers and prophecies, but people outside the Pentecostal walls think we're prophesying when we're making prophetic prayers. It's simply a prayer of positive confession or command. Prophecy is quiet different.

TenQ:
Lord Jesus, we ask for mercy that blind eyes will see as we begin to fo expose the deception of satan on this platform in Jesus mighty name.
Amen

Amen. So shall it be in Jesus name.

otipoju:
So of all the people touching Jesus, she was the only one that had faith. The others had no expectation of healing and were just following him for following sake. Stop reading your own meanings into events. Yes she had faith that she would get healed but the fact remains that her touch drained Jesus of power...her faith is not what drained Jesus.

Why would faith a positive thing reduce power in Jesus.?

Also there is not a single mention of the word menstruation in Acts 15. So you are inventing a story that did not happen.

As clever as you think you are, you did not comment on your bracadabra speaking in tounges. Show me in the Bible where you got blabbing unintelligible nonsense as speaking in tounges.

Your nonsense pastors substituted " strange tounges which actually means "foreign languages" to be blabbing nonsense and like dense and dumb sheep you follow.

Also where in the Bible does it say the man had no eyeballs? Where did you get your tradition from.

Now tell me the so called strange practices that we engage in that are not rooted in scripture.

From the colour of our garments, to palm fronds,to lighting candles...they are all found in the Bible.

And you are still saying the obvious...what I asked for was the correlation. Why would certain actions have certain direct events on real life events.

And what makes you think the actions that Celestians take are not directed by the Holy Spirit for the individual or congregation.

It's a shame that you talk so proudly and authoritavely about what a church you know nothing about.

That heaven wey you want go, na white garment you go wear there, you go light candle for alter and you go burn incense tire.

Please quote the verse that says she drained Jesus of power. I really need to read it myself.

She touched Jesus with an intent. Her touch was not just a random touch like the touch of others. She said in her heart "If I may but touch the hem of His garment, I shall be made whole" Others didn't place any demand on Him. She asked and she received. No receiving without asking. If the woman too was just thronging without placing a demand, nothing would happen.

I'll be waiting to see the verse that says she drained Jesus of power. I'll be anxiously waiting.

Now, the matter of speaking in tongues was something I'll prefer not to discuss because it's much higher than you. If you're failing in the elementary things of faith, how can you understand the deep things of the Spirit of God?

Let me share my own experience. I desired to speak in tongues because I was sinning and I've heard that the Baptism of the Holy Ghost is all I needed to overcome sin in my life.

Many men of God prayed for me to be baptised to no avail. One day, I took a friend of mine to visit a pastor. He prayed for us, my friend was baptized in the Holy Ghost and started speaking in tongues. I didn't. I became frustrated and abandoned the quest.

One evening as I heard a group of friends discussing how God was using them mightily especially in the area of deliverance (They were just sharing experience among themselves) , I overheard their conversations as I arrived their place. I was deeply moved that day and decided that I must have what these guys have.

That night, I went home praying and fasting. Nobody laid hands on me. I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost in my room. I was speaking in tongues and prophesying exactly as we see it in the Acts of Apostles.

You seem to see the phenomenon as an exclusive action of Pentecostal churches. That's absolutely wrong. It's all there in the Bible. I myself have prayed for several people at once with everyone of them receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues without my personal intervention. It's just God doing His thing. No one teaches or tells anyone what to say. Once the Holy Ghost comes on you, tongues of fire are often the evidence. And yes, the language is understood by those whose language you speak. It's an earthly language which you never learnt.

The day, you get baptized in the Holy Ghost, your life would change. Sin would no longer be pleasant to you. You'll have a genuine zeal for God. The Bible would open up to you. You would walk in the power of God. You won't find it easy to look at someone and start saying "You're silly!" Lol. It would be difficult because the Spirit of God in you would not permit you to use such foul words on a fellow human being.

Let me stop here. I can see that you cherry picked by response and attacked only the matter of the woman with the issue of blood. Let's see how you fare when you show me how she drained power from the Lord Jesus because I know that Jesus said 'Virtue flowed out of me' Not power was drained out of me. The moment you realize that the anointing flows like a river, you'll begin to understand.

She drained Jesus of power? Show me the verse!!!

TenQ:
Please pray for them!
That their eyes be opened and their hearts encounter the Truth in Christ Jesus!

That's it my brother.

No amount of preaching or exposing the errors of a religion can help a man as long as his spiritual sight is blind.

otipoju:
You are extremely ignorant.

Israel was at war and as long as Moses hand were held raised up...they battle would be in their favor, when his hands cane down they would start loosing. So they hand men hold his hands up until they utterly defeated their enemies.

Question: what is the correlation between raining or lowering of a mans hands with winning a battle.

The prophet told the king to hit the ground with his stick. The King hit it lightly three times. The prophet admonished him saying had he hit it like 5 to 7 times, his enemies would have been defeated completely.

What is the correlation between physically hitting a stick on the ground with defeating ones enemies in war.

Jesus spat on the ground, made a paste of mud and rubbed on a blind man's eyes and told him to go wash. The man did so and his eyes became opened.



Question: what has spit and mud and washing off with water which got to do with a opening of eye...especially if Jesus could simply command the eyes to be opened like he did to Lazurus or speak the word without being in a different city for the Jarius daughter to be restored.

What is so powerful about a females menstrual blood that it could drain so much power from Jesus that he noticed immediately even with the large crowd touching him.


If you can explain these then we might have a conversation about Christianity and faith.

The problem with you Pentecostal novices is that you think you know it all...whereas you and your so called man made gods know next to nothing about Spirituality.

What anointing do I need to fall under if your prayer is to God. Leave all that nonsense gimmicks.

You guys blab unintelligible nonsense under the guise of speaking in tounges.
Whereas the real speaking in tounges is to speak in foreign language that its native speakers can understand...but the person speaking did not learn the language. That was what happened on the day of Pentecost isn't it?

So where did you guys get your shekerebbooo madraksunda from

Go and sit down somewhere.

I can see that you're already deep in white garment practices. You're probably a strong leader there. Nothing I tell you would move you because your belief in the things you do is deeply entrenched.

Now, let me answer your Questions.

1. The raised hands of Moses was what God intended to use at that point in time to bring victory to Israel. God wanted him in one way or the other to participate in that battle and make the Israelites know for certain that their swords was not responsible for their victory.

Psalm 44:3

For they got not the land in possession by their own sword, neither did their own arm save them: but thy right hand, and thine arm, and the light of thy countenance, because thou hadst a favour unto them."

The message was very clear. Moses also got to understand that he is not self-sufficient. Take note of the fact that it was just a one-time occurrence. It never happened again. They didn't make it a rule for regular war practice. It was simply a message and it remained so. Do not compare this event with regular practices of the white garment churches.

2. When Elisha told the king Jehoash to hit the ground with his arrows in 2kings 13, remember that in verse 16, the prophet put his hands on the king's hands. This is the important part of that passage because the prophet was about to give the king a prophetic prayer that he was not worthy of. The king like his father was not serving God but he wanted to benefit from God. Rather than issue him a word of prophesy for Victory, the prophet can only offer up prophetic prayers and he must use his own hands to decide his own fate. That's exactly what happened. Any victory the king got was not because he was worthy but because God decided to overlook his deeds and have respect to the prophet and his anointing. However, by striking the ground just 3 times, he sealed his own fate. This does not justify anything that white garment churches do.

3. Jesus spitting on the ground was as He was directed to do at that particular moment for that particular man. The man was born blind. Tradition has it that he did not even have eyes. As in there were no eyes in those sockets. It was all skin covering that part of his face. The miracle in that John 10 was a special miracle. Jesus was literally creating new eyes in order to give sight to that man. What He did there was as instructed by the Holy Spirit. Remember He said, "I can of my own self do nothing." The actions were just for that particular occasion. The disciples who took up the ministry after Christ didn't make anything of it. Their activities are fully recorded in the book of Acts. They never had to indulge in any of those things you guys do to cast out devils, heal the sick, make the lame to walk or even raise the dead. The church had existed for almost 2,000yrs before white garment churches came into being. Those practices of yours never existed in christiendom. What do you think you know better than the Apostles?

Jesus is our ultimate example, and the Bible is our guide. Do it the way they did it. You would have the same results they had. It's just as simple as that. Why burn candles or wash anyone's head in rivers? Are you herbalists?

4. The blood flow from the woman with the issue of blood was not responsible for drawing power from the Lord Jesus. It was her faith. Through her faith, power was released from the Lord for her healing, and Christ knew that power got out of Him. Her menstrual blood didn't defile Jesus or spoil His anointing. I'm aware that you guys have
certain restrictions for women during their mensural periods. Like a herbalist, you think a touch from them would spoil things. It was not so with Christ. He was glad the woman touched Him. He approved of the touch and said "daughter, be not afraid, your faith has made you whole." If mensuration does not constitute a pollution to the Apostles of Christ (Acts 15}, why should it matter to any part of the body of Christ? Except that part has another Lord which is not Jesus.

See, the Bible is plain and straight forward. Trying to use unrelated scriptures to justify weird practices does not bring you into any good standing before God.

Even Paul who brought the gospel to us gentiles said be ye my imitators as I am of Christ Jesus. 1Cor. 11;1-2 (Paraphrased).

Tell me who you're imitating with your strange practices because it's obviously not the Lord Jesus, neither Paul nor any of the Apostles of the Lamb.

MaxInDHouse:
There is nothing demonic in God's word that's why it's called
"THE HOLY SCRIPTURES"

What demons know is that whenever people choose to do things wrongly they're no longer doing God's will but that of Satan.

For insurance, many Jews in the first century began praying using the names of angels like Gabriel and Michael in their prayers so this affected some Jews who embraced Christianity so apostle Paul in his letter made it clear to them that God never introduced any angel to them as His son in whose name they should approach His throne except the name of one man "Jesus" Hebrews 1:5

Now how many people today praying using the names of angels know that they're actually praying to demons and not to God?

That's my point. That's why I said he used the wrong language.

otipoju:
Na you sabi. It's okay for your manipulative ignorant "man made gods" to bad mouth and denigrate other Christians, but my calling them out for what they really are is means i am merely religious and ignorant.

Meanwhile you are using fine English to abuse me but you are good abi.

Like I said you or anyone supporting them are very very silly. It's just a fact. Nothing more nothing less.

You are as silly as the man made gods that you lick.their arse and rush to defend their silliness.

Ibiyomie should provide at least one example of a demonic psalm in the Bible or else he is a liar and a hater.

I already blamed ibiyhome yesterday, remember?

But what he meant by demonic Psalms is understood by me. Just that he used wrong language. Truth is that the Devil uses the Bible to camouflage and deceive people to make them think they're doing the right things since Bible is involved. Do you know that some cults recite Bible verses to do money rituals? The victims are comfortable thinking it's from God.

Read the Bible well before defending things that are not in the Bible. I can talk boldly about these things because I'm well versed in scriptures and know the truth. No man of God anywhere can deceive me.

Again, you're just very ignorant. Go on a research and compare the activities of white garment churches with cult practices, you'll be stunned at the similarities.

Where did they get those practices from? I don't burn candles or do any of those things they do but if I lay hands on you simply praying in the name of Jesus, you'll encounter the power of God. You might even fall under the anointing.

Look, seek knowledge. Loyalty to some church demonination or man of God would not take you to heaven. Religion is useless. Only Jesus saves.

skywalker240:
Quora like nairaland is also a forum people express their beliefs


What say you about this

But there are many knowledgeable people on Quora. You'll see people sharing real life experiences with photos and video evidences. You'll hear from wild park managers and wild life professionals.

TenQ:
You know when your God allows you to fabricate stories and tell lies to promote Islam, you will show your skills as a confirmed liar. The lies were too much that the Muslims decided to categorise their hadith into Sahih, Daif, Hassan and so on.

Lol.

So the lies are in categories.

Na wa o.

hardbody:
Check Quora. It is the Gorilla

Link please.

ObiaboAdoka:
My bro, tiger is d most strongest nd fearless land animal.
Gorilla will come out.

I have once watched a fight between a lion and a tiger in a cave on National Geographic. They both did themselves shege. No one won but the two animals suffered a lot of physical damages. It was the Lion's cave, so later on, the tiger slowly walked away while the Lion looked on. The tiger was still in sight when the lion lay down on its side breathing heavily.

defashan:
In a cage, the anaconda might kill all of them. The other three need space to move and attack. Look is a hunter and it’s fighting and survival skills might be impeded by lack of space to move around.

Anaconda is highly favoured in such environment, once it wraps its muscular body around any of them, they are gone.

It actually depends on the size of the cage.

TenQ:
God spoke directly to Every prophet. Not for Mohammed, he had to manufacture Jibril as God's spoke man!
The Guy and his companions are complete 419: that is why 70% of their hadiths are fabricated

Na wá o.

Please expatiate on the fabrication of their hadiths. You mean some of his goons created some hadiths to rip off Muslims and share in some of the things Mohammed was enjoying? I don't even understand what their hadiths are all about.

otipoju:
Owa very silly !!!

That's what we're talking about. Your response already shows you don't know God. You're just being religious and superlatively ignorant.

otipoju:
Celestial born, Cele raised, Cele raising my kids, Cele till I die.

Ibiyomie and Adeboye are puffed up charlatans who believe their own hype.

Imagine a pastor saying there are demonic psams inside the bible

You're very ignorant. May God pardon you.

Didijiji:
You have spoken well.

If only he spoke like you

If only he said “SOME”

Baba Adeboye didn't mention any church per say. He only warned against burning candles. David Ibiyhome didn't do well at all. He wasn't supposed to talk like that.

Yes, there are godly white garment churches but they're not well known.

Most of those white garment churches have demonic practices. Burning of candies is demonic. Coloured candles are used in occultism to conjure demons. Candles have no place in Christianity. They use brooms and bath in rivers like the Babalawos do. That's purely unscriptural. But ignorant people would keep defending what they know nothing about.

SangoOlukosoOba:
Osun’s reach is limitless. On land and in any waters!

Her real name is Tamat. The Bible calls her Leviathan the great dragon that is in the sea.

Can you tell me more about her?