₦airaland Forum

Kismat,

It's funny when a muslim begins to preach about who Jesus really is. Why don't you worship Him if u believe Him? Afterall, the Koran agrees that He was without sin.

Christians play by the rules written in the bible but if that was all we had, most of us would have given up. The Holy Spirit is Who makes christianity real to a man.

This Christianity/Islam debate is of no use, as we can never find a meeting point. The both religions are different and we might as well learn to live with that. I don't know what is expected of muslims, but christians can't please God by going thru the Koran to look for contradictions, or debating over such issues. God has sent us to preach the gospel of JESUS, not to look for holes in other religions. I think there's a place in the bible where Paul advised against such debates. I'm not sure, but i'll check for it. I sincerely believe that there is no need to waste time trying to defend our faith to someone who just won't listen. We can achieve much more by praying for them.

to answer the original question, the bible is against all forms of sins. christians should strive to be free from all. I believe why christians tend to lay more emphasis on sexual sins is that they enslave a man probably more than others. If you read thru Proverbs, u'll see that Solomon (the wisest man with a lot of experience on the issue) believed that adultery/fornication/sexual sins are a fast way to hell, death, grave. Romans 21 indicates that homosexuality is a sign that ppl have rebelled against God. It's only natural that christians should take extra precaution against such. However, I believe that we need to focus on other sins too.


About the laws concerning master/slave etc. Those were cultural laws i.e. they applied to the cultural situation of the Jews at the time. Notice that in the New Testament, the apostles just preached the gospel of Jesus to the gentiles. They were not required to carry out the Old Testament laws, which were cultural laws for the Jews. It would make more sense if u consider that the Jews had no King other than God at the time the laws were given. God was their ruler, they were a new nation and He was giving them laws concerning all aspects of their lives. You can think of it as parents teaching an infant what is best to do. If master/slave relationships still existed (in the same form as in biblical times), a christian master or slave would have to obey Paul's admonition to masters and slaves.


As to whether christians are in conflict, i don't know what exactly you mean. If you're talking about denominationalism, it's more like different ppl from different backgrounds seeing/hearing/reading the same thing and coming up with different interpretations.

TayoD,

I read a book about the origin of Islam. I can't remember all the details, but it said Muhammed's uncle was a christian. They were a sect that read only the book of James, which didn't talk much about Jesus but was more about works. The book of James set out to correct ppl who said they were christians but weren't acting it. Muhammed got some inspiration from there and that's why Islam is particular about works.

It's funny when they say the bible has been corrupted. I read somewhere that there are very ancient scrolls in the British Museum. In any event, those who say it has been corrupted should tell us the original contents.

They say the Koran refers to Jesus as a prophet and said that He never sinned. If they believe that He never sinned, unlike any other human being, why then do they consider Muhammend (who sinned) the greatest prophet?

I guess there are similarities - we are both monotheists, we share some views about God. But I think that's where it stops. I don't know much about other religions, but Christianity is different from ALL other religions because it is an exclusive religion. According to the bible, no one can reach God except through Jesus. Since other religions do not acknowledge that He is the Son of God, and indeed God, we can't be the same. This also accounts for some differences amongst "christian" groups. Some "christian" groups have other views of Jesus. Even though they claim to be christian, we are just NOT the same. Jesus Christ (the One Chrisitianity is based upon) made several statements to that effect.

John 5:23
That all men should honour the Son even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son, honoureth not the Father which hath sent Him.

John 8:42
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.


John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


John 10:1
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

John 10:7
Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

John 10:9
I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.


Other passages in the bible:

Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Ephes. 2:18
For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

funmise:
I am a xtain and i'm currently going out with a muslim guy, I ve fallen in love with him before I knew he is a muslim. Although he is really nice and down to heart. To be truthful if u come frm a vry strong gospel or evangelical family background as a xtain, u wouldn't choose any of d two because of wut your friends, FAMILY and church members will say.

The bible should be the reason behind our decisions, not what family, friends or church members say.

Spikedcylinder, i read ur post. I said I believe in God, and YES, i feel His presence. I've never heard Him speak to me with my ears, though I believe He speaks to me thru the bible.

mine english name is God's Love.

niterider:
What is an english name? U mean christian names or slave names??

both, i guess. Christian names are the ones u get at birth, or during baptism. some non-christians also have english names. slave names are mostly surnames

It's wrong and I can't imagine myself in such a situation.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

My mom once told me the story of a relative who got married to a second wife (he'd divorced the first) and put all his property in her name, including those he owned b4 marrying her. Eventually the woman died without a child and he realized then that she willed all his property to her family, even though the man had two children with his first wife. She even willed a house in VI to their househelp (I still can't understand why she did that). It was a long legal battle but in the end they managed to work out something. The man is still living with the househelp, who is now grown and even has a child for her late husband. That's the only way he can have some claims on the house.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

I was shocked to hear that a woman was capable of such dishonesty. Well, marriage itself is a risk, but it's better to be married to someone who really loves you rather than someone who is out to exploit you. Plus, both parties should own the major property and/or be privy to each other's Wills.

Jagunlabi, if u read that post again u would notice that i was talking about christianity all thru. that's the only way i know how to serve God.

Spikedcylinder, I believe in God and believe He speaks to me thru d bible. I've never heard Him speak directly to my ears, though i've heard ppl narrate such experiences. Do I feel His presence? Yes, I do. The truth is that you can never understand God from outside. If you want to know what this is all about, U have to experience it for urself.

That's just the truth. If all u want is to find an explanation for Him, u'll never see Him because God hides Himself from the "wise" ones. When ppl refuse to acknowledge God, He makes it very difficult for them to ever realize He is God. He lets them continue in their deception and they may go on like that till it's too late. See Romans 1, 1Cor 1:17-29.

The issue with White Garment churches, mormons, or any other group that calls themselves christians isn't they way they dress. It is the things that they believe, and some practices they observe. I believe that being a christian doesn't rob u of ur personality, which is influenced by ur upbringing and environment. However, when we become christians we are to do away with the anti-Christ things we've learned or are used to. I think some white garment churches carry over some Yoruba traditional whatever into christianity. Using holy water, not wearing shoes, wearing white garments, are not bad in themselves. When the focus shifts from Jesus to the items, that's when u know they have a problem. I don't know all the white garment churches, but there might be some that are still true to the faith. Ppl just tend to group them as one since the well known ones have some unchristian practices.

I saw this maxim in a book on the "christian cults":- In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; and in all things, charity.

I think this is necessary for all Christians. our backgrounds matter a lot in the way we live our christian lives. this usually leads to doctrinal differences, because different ppl tend to place different degrees of importance to different biblical issues. For example, someone raised in a family of native doctors who bcomes a christian may place more importance on casting out demons (since he knows a lot about demonic action) than someone who was raised in a relatively clean (spiritually) environment. As long as we're united (in deed and word) on the fundamental christian issues, we're one. We are not perfect humans and are bound to see things in different perspectives at times.

Let me give an example of how background affects the way we see different issues:- If you listen to several Nigerian and American preachers (or read their books) even though each group may talk about both qualities of God, there is a tendency for Nigerians to dwell on God being a jealous God, terrible, the danger of falling into His wrath etc. While the Americans would very likely dwell on His being a loving God, caring, never forgets His children etc. If you take a good look at our different societies, u would understand why. For one, our traditional African were very much feared, and they usually visited disobedience with punishment. even within our societies/families, children are expected to respect their elders almost to the point of be afraid of them. The American culture on the other hand, is very particular about relationships and broken relationships are very common there. Naturally, ppl who care so much about relationships want to know a God who can give them the love and care they desire.

People can fake anything, especially spiritual things since they cannot be seen. I've seen several occasions where ppl were prayed for and began to speak in tongues, even young children. I think it all depends on the person's heart.

I won't go for just anyone to lay hands on me anymore for personal reasons and not because of speaking in tongues. We tend to overdo things in Nigeria. This is more in pentecostal circles. This is my opinion on why this happens: I think this is so because unlike the orthodox churches, we don't have rigid guidelines for the order of services. We believe that the Holy Spirit moves in unusual ways (and in many cases have experienced it e.g. d Holy Spirit prompting a pastor to stop his sermon and pray for a sick person who gets well instantly, or ppl getting healed during praise sessions). But when such a thing happens, the ppl tend to attribute the action of the Holy Spirit to the pastor's faith, prayer etc. and this sort of puts pressure on the pastor to "do" it repeatedly. Of course, the Holy Spirit moves when He wants to so sometimes pastors overdo certain things in a service in a bid to "coax" the Holy Spirit to move. It gets worse when the Holy Spirit doesn't do whatever the ppl are expecting (He may very well not do it since the pastor wants Him to do it to save his face b4 the ppl). This cannot happen in orthodox churches because the guidlines have been set for a very long time now. Plus, some orthodox churches rotate leadership, which is not very common in African Indigenous Churches.

I'm a pastor's child and have many friends who are also pastors' children. When I was young I used to hear this stuff about pastors' kids misbehaving because their parents were busy binding the devil and d devil now attacks the kids to distract the parents. It might be true. I'm not a spirit so I can't be sure. I know however, that there's much more to misbehaviour amongst pastors' kids.

All children misbehave, some more than others, but ppl expect so much from pastors' kids(PKs) and this is always a burden on them. At first they try to pretend because of their parents', usually the parents also warn them to conform to the expectations of church members. B4 long, the PKs start to feel deprived of many things they'd have loved to do (e.g. harmless partying, wearing jewelry and certain clothes etc.). This builds up anger and bitterness, not just at their parents or church, but many times at Christianity or even God (since all their lives they've associated God and christianity with their family and church). By the time they bcome teenagers or are old enough to insist on their way, they become rebellious and join all sorts of groups.

This will not be so for all PKs who misbehaved, but I believe a large majority of them can identify with this.

my 100th post, yeah!!!

Afeni,

U don't seem to know much about the average Nigerian. But then that depends on what u mean by average. Nigerians are intelligent ppl and have knowledge which in many cases is wasting away. The key to our devt. is not just for those abroad to come home, many of them have come and joined the elites in cheating the rest of the country. Afterall, all humans have the tendency to be greedy.

One thing that has made the US a great country is that they tried as much as possible to give every man his rights. The US was built on christian values and the Bible is very much against cheating the poor.



I just realized u were living in New York. Thank God. Only a hundred Nigerians with the hatred you have for Christianity, Islam etc. can destroy this nation. Do you fight against the Eastern religions becoming popular in the US? Anyway this is Nigeria and we have freedom of religion. Obviously our traditional gods had no power to save themselves not to talk of our ancestors. I'm not sure they deserve my consideration.

Whatever the brand of religion u're trying to spread, i'm not sure many Nigerians would be interested. Nigerians are not just interested in building a nation that would be as wealthy as the US. We also want a nation with good morals. We don't want to see kids in gangs, using drugs/guns, and doing all the other stuff that young Americans now do.

where were orunmila, ifa etc. when the foreigners defeated their followers? why couldn't they save them? they couldn't even save themselves from falling from glory? why would i want to worship a god that has fallen from glory? a god that needs our help to restore him to his former glory. I want a God who can be there when i need Him. That's why I chose Jesus. He's been more than enough for me.

BTW, doesn't it seem odd that these foreign Gods have done their ppl well. America was built on christian values - they're the most powerful and richest nation.
Britain and these other western countries are doing well.
What did orunmila and the others do for Nigeria?

To start with, Agnosticsm and Atheism are not traditional religions. As a matter of fact, Nigerians, if not all Africans, are traditionally very religious ppl. They believe in and worship several deities. One analysis of African Traditional Religion I read even went as far as saying that "there's no such thing as an African atheist" and that "the words 'African' and 'atheist' are opposites". That might be taking it too far in view or education and Western influence on Africans, but it only goes to show that Africans are VERY religious ppl.


Christianity is not a religion of force, but a religion of freedom. You can't serve God by force. I was born into a christian family and automatically became a churchgoer. My parents became christians of their own will. I became a christian (bornagain) of my own will also. However, my being a christian today has very little to do with my being born in a christian family. It's more because I experienced God as a young child and even when I would have slipped away, His love, and those childhood experiences kept me.

I don't believe that christians aren't allowed to think on their own. I'm a christian and i think on my own, but i have decided that i would rather align my thoughts with Christ's because I discovered that His word is absolute. All humans tend to impose their views on others. I have that tendency myself and work against it. I believe that christianity is about choice and i would rather pray for an unbeliever than force my belief on him/her. I believe there's life after death and I'm working towards being with Jesus when I die. But my life is not wasting, as a matter of fact, it gets better the more I live according to Him.

Of course there are religious leaders who manipulate their followers and make them do as they say. Christians have been warned to keep away from such leaders. I believe that no man is infallible and I look up to Jesus only.

Nigerians/Africans tend to attribute most problems to spiritual attacks because of our traditional beliefs. I read somewhere that in African Traditional Religion, it is believed that every physical action occurs as a result of one spiritual action or the other. I believe that there are spiritual attacks though. From the devil or thru ppl.
It is a waste of time explaining it to someone who doesn't believe in the supernatural in the first place. But christians shouldn't fear the devil or attacks.


Let's not deceive ourselves, a large percentage of Nigerians visit native doctors or use one juju or the other, christian, muslim, atheist, traditionalist or whatever. Why do they do that?

The issue here is doctrinal differences, not discrimination. The bible doesn't distinguish between non-believers. The bible advocates marrying someone who shares ur faith in God to avoid trouble in future. If you marry a muslim as a christian, either you or your spouse have to leave ur faith. If you both decide to remain in ur respective religions, when u have kids how do u raise them. For nominal muslims/christians, this may not matter much. But for those who are very much involved in their religion and want to worship their God with their families, inter-religious marriage cannot work.

To answer the question: I won't even consider any. I don't hate muslims or white garment ppl, but our doctrinal differences are so great that one religion would have to give way for another for there to be agreement. There are several christian groups with different doctrines. Where the doctrinal difference is very significant, I wouldnt marry. Not because I think they're bad or they're not christians, but because it would be difficult to find a meeting point. For example, Mormons or Jehova's Witnesses, who have their own way of life. Anyone marrying someone in either of these religions must be prepared to live that lifestyle.

I got this from Dake's Study Notes

Sixteen Contrasts of Tongues and Prophecy

1.Tongues are spoken to God; prophecy is spoken to teach people (1 Cor. 14:2-3).

2.Mysteries or things not understood are spoken in tongues; all things spoken in prophecy are clear (1 Cor. 14:3-4).

3.Tongues edify the speaker; prophecy edifies the speaker and others (1 Cor. 14:3-4).

4.Tongues enable one to commune with God; prophecy speaks to people to edification, exhortation, and comfort (1 Cor. 14:2-4).

5.The prophet is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless the tongues are interpreted and understood (1 Cor. 14:5).

6.Tongues are no profit to the public unless interpreted; all prophecy is profitable to the public (1 Cor. 14:5-13,27-28).

7.The speaker in tongues must pray for the interpretation; the prophet need not, for his message is in his own tongue (1 Cor. 14:3-13).

8.Tongues make one a barbarian to others; prophecy does not (1 Cor. 14:3,11).

9.In all gifts the main purpose is to excel in edifying the church (1 Cor. 14:12). In this, prophecy is greater than tongues (1 Cor. 14:1-6,27-28).

10.The human spirit of the speaker is the thing edified by tongues; prophecy benefits all people (1 Cor. 14:1-5,14-15,24-25).

11.Tongues are a great personal blessing, but 5 words of prophecy are more important in public services than 10,000 words in tongues (1 Cor. 14:17-19).

12.Tongues are a sign to unbelievers; prophecy to believers (1 Cor. 14:21-22).

13.All speaking in tongues at once causes mockery by the unsaved whereas with prophesying the unsaved are convicted of sin (1 Cor. 14:23-25).

14.Every gift must be used to edify the church (1 Cor. 14:26). Prophecies do this better (1 Cor. 14:1-5,23-25).

15.Only one message is allowed in a church service if not interpreted; three messages in prophecy are allowed (1 Cor. 14:3,27-31).

16.Three messages in tongues are allowed in any church service if they are interpreted. This many messages in prophecy are always allowed (1 Cor. 14:27-32).

I speak in tongues and I must confess that there was a time in my life when I was confused about it. This wasn't because I thought it was fake, but because unlike many ppl I know, no one ever prayed for me b4 I started speaking in tongues. I'd heard ppl in church, my parents etc. speaking in tongues several times. I don't know when I started but I remember speaking in tongues during our family devotion when I was about 4 or 5. Some years ago, I began to think about it and wasn't sure it was from God. I thought it might be demonic or just my imagination, so I prayed about it. God brought to my remembrance several times He'd healed me and done other big things for me without me having any earth-shaking experience. It was then I realized that the Holy Spirit was actually involved in my speaking in tongues.

Due to my background, I've never had any doubts about speaking in tongues. As a child, I witnessed several 'abuses' (IMO) of the gifts of prophesy and interpretation of tongues that put me off. However, that doesn't invalidate the gifts.

There are some christians who don't believe in speaking in tongues e.g. baptists. But they agree that it was a gift of the Spirit, except that they believe that it has been withdrawn from believers along with the gift of healing. Pentecostals, however, believe that all the gifts of the Spirit are still here with us and functioning. These are just doctrinal differences, and I believe that as long as we all believe in God, and agree on fundamental christian beliefs e.g. Trinity, Virgin birth, authority of the Bible, we are one.

If u read thru the bible, u'll realise that Christianity (or the things of God) cannot be explained by human knowledge. remember what Jesus said about receiving the Kingdom as a child. One thing most christians learn eventually is that we can't always explain the things of God with human wisdom. If you look thru all the miracles in the bible, u'll understand what i mean. It is left for u to accept the bible as it is, or to give ur own interpretation, or to even dismiss it all as a fluke. It is God who would judge everyone of us in the end.


To answer the question: speaking in/ and interpreting tongues are gifts of the Holy Spirit (see 1 Cor. 12). Some schools of thought interprete 1 Cor. 13:1 to mean that those who speak with tongues may be using earthly and angelic languages. I've heard of people in other continents speaking in African languages while speaking in tongues. That's probably what happened to Peter in Acts 3. The gift of interpretation of tongues was given to give us an insight into the tongues. Speaking in tongues is a way the Holy Spirit strengthens believers and helps them pray to God. 1 Cor. 14 says that speaking in tongues is btw the christian and God and that it doesn't profit the onlooker in the church. Thus, Paul advised that they should rather prophesy in public gatherings that included unbelievers. Note though that it is alright to speak in tongues in a gathering of christians. I think this is why pentecostals speak in tongues. The bible says we do not know what to pray about, but that the Holy Spirit helps us. This is why speaking in tongues is encouraged among those who believe. Concerning the ease with which anyone can speak in tongues, see 1 Cor. 13:1-3. There Paul shows the possibility of exercising some of these gifts in a backslidden condition as Solomon did (Eccl. 2: 9). In his discussions about the spiritual gifts, Paul stressed that LOVE is more important to God than the possession of any or all of these gifts. This is why a pentecostal, a baptist and a catholic who all love God can can call themselves His children.

This issue is relative and subjective; it depends on your values/beliefs. Everyone has a standard with which they make comparisons.

Being a christian, the Bible is my standard and even though it isn't explicit about which clothes are indecent, I think the Bible is saying we should care enough about others to not wear things that can tempt them to sin.

I believe that many, if not most, men do not need a catalyst to get them tempted. Afterall, tomato and pepper sellers who dress shabbily get pregnant. I'm cautious about what I wear not because of anybody but because God expects it, and because it gives a better impression of me (at least within my circle of family and friends).

For me, indecent dressing is wearing things i wouldn't want my parents, chuch ppl etc. to see me in. Or wearing things my conscience doesnt agree with.

my sister and I attended BMHS briefly and left in 1997. I was in JSS1, she was in JSS3 then.

it's a matter of preference on the part of the parents and/or child. in my case, i really wanted to go to a boarding school. even when my sister and i left the first, i went to another boarding school and she went to a day school.

This isn't about OBJ, many of us Nigerians say a big NO to homosexuality. We have a right to say we don't want to give homosexualilty a chance at all in Nigeria. The govt. can conduct opinion polls to see which group has the support of majority of Nigerians.


There's someone who's facing trial in the US and it has to do with polygamy. That is also infringing his rights isn't it?

Why do they send men who have incestuous relationships with their kids to jail?

It is men who decide what they don't want and what they want, make laws, and determine punishments for those who might contravene those laws.


Beastiality is bad, and should be criminalized. Those who engage are at risk of contacting diseases, which they would eventually spread to the rest of the populace.

all those of u advocating legalization of homosexuality:

even if we forget our cultural values and agree that we should become a carbon-copy of the West, where are we going to stop?

Everyone has rights but in a community, some rights must be put aside. We legalize homosexuality today, and tommorrow some ppl come up with another one. A man may say, for instance, that he loves his daughter and wants to marry her. Human rights ppl will fight for such ppl and we would also legalize that. Of course, the family structure will be broken down. The next would be pornography. Then sex with kids less than 18.

One big problem we have in the world is that we've taken freedom so far, we don't know where to stop.


No matter what, it is Nigerians that will decide what we want, not US, UK, UN, Transparency International or any human rights group.

God first.
My family, friends, colleagues and every other person who has helped me at one time or the other.

but, GOD first.

the arabic on the naira doesn't affect me, as i'm free to spend it when i like and even give it in church. i don't like it though, because it is more a symbol of Islam to me, than of northerners/hausas, and religion is a sensitive issue in Nigeria. However, I don't really care about those arabic words anymore (I used to before) because I believe it doesn't make Islam, Arabic or whatever it symbolises, our national religion/language/image. I'd vote for it to be removed, but I think there are more important issues.


When the ECO replaces the Naira, it won't be an issue anymore.

Hey Badman888, and other September 22nd ppl.

This birthday-mate-search feature is cool! I didn't know any birthday mate b4 now.

Akolawole:
And i have seen Househelps that have been completely maltreated INFACT sexually abused.

I know of a particular girl from seme border that were sexually abused by three of her Oga's boys which resulted into pregnancy. Out of the three, they don't even know who owns the pregnancy. Its a pity.

I've seen and heard of several such cases too, that's why I feel we need a regulatory body in charge of domestic servants' welfare. It's those who matreat these kids that should be punished.

Akolawole:
@Davidylan

If the Northerner call it their culture so be it, afterall other section of Nigeria has one or two bad things in their culture.

Igbo people's astronomical bride price and the plight of their widow to mention a few.

This is more of ignorance than culture. Why don't the educated Hausas do it? I think those who give away their kids at such young ages do it to get some money (bride price) and to do away with the responsibility of taking care of the child. But there is more to young girls marrying than the issue of exploitation. They are more vulnerable to several STDs, like VVF. There is also a greater risk of dying or complications during childbirth.

You can't compare Ibos huge bride price to this. No one is forced to marry an Ibo woman afterall. The maltreatment of widows in Iboland is just as bad as the hausa case though. As you said, all tribes have these customs but they should not be encouraged. We have customs that could lead us to greater heights, we should focus on those and do away with these drawback customs.

I know of many (i really mean many) househelps who have grown, are married with kids and are doing well. Most of them wouldn't be where they are if they had remained in their villages with their parents without any education.

We've had several househelps in my family, most under 18. My parents do not maltreat them, and they usually go to school. Some actually refuse to go to school and decide to learn other things like sewing. When they come, they're usually very small but they grow bigger and fatter in a short while because of better feeding. Some have to trek long distances to fetch water in their places but they don't do that here. They are allowed to communicate with their families. We've had more than one case when a househelp had to be sent home because of some misbehaviour or the other. Their parents usually come to beg. My family isn't the only one with such cases, I know several others.

I think what we need is an agency that controls employment of househelps. They should insist that employers send them to school, feed them well and not involve them in certain jobs (e.g. hawking). They should visit them in school, talk to neighbors etc. Some of these kids are better off in their employers homes.