₦airaland Forum

Depends on whether you accept the authority of the bible, and what u mean by christians. If you mean the present day def'n of christians (churchgoers), then non-christians - non-churchgoers - could possibly go to heaven. But if you mean Christians as used by the bible, i.e. ppl who have accepted JESUS as Lord and Savior, nonchristians - those who haven't accepted Him into their lives- can NOT go to heaven.

This is because Jesus himself made some very bold claims: He said NO ONE can get to God except thru Him. This means that no matter how "good" a person is, if he/she isn't a Christian (biblical) he/she can't go to heaven.

Jesus showed that good works are not enough in the story of the young man who asked how he can have eternal life. The man obeyed all the commandments, yet Jesus required him to sell all he had, give the money to the poor, and follow Him. This shows that a lot of commitment to Jesus is required to go to heaven.

In short, JESUS is the WAY to heaven. Anyone who would come to Him can pass thru' and anyone who won't come to Him can't get to heaven.

If we all had the right to do what we feel like doing, this would be a chaotic world. Today it is homosexuality, if we allow it the next thing we'll hear is a brother and sister ( or even father and daughter) saying they're in love and want to get married. The family structure would be broken down then. Incest is just as abnormal as homosexuality.

We have our values in Nigeria and we must stand by them. I remember hearing something like, "if you don't stand for anything, you'll fall for everything". Not everyone in a country can approve of something, it's what the majority wants that goes. The majority here are anti-homosexuality (i've not seen any opinion polls but i believe this is the case).

We don't have to copy everything the West does, they aren't copying us anyway. Why isn't Polygamy allowed in the US? It's harmless afterall.

I'm also against the way they suspend ppl and that they don't allow students use phones. Everyone knows that phones are no longer luxuries, but necessities.

TDaves, I think the discipline is needed (i think they need to redirect theirs though). I wish all Nigerian universities could be stricter and instill some discipline into the students, become concerned not just about their social and academic lives but also morals. If that could happen, our society would be better off.

Not that CU is doing it very well, I think that rather than just suspend ppl, they should try to make them see what's bad in their actions and lead them to Christ, who can change them.

Covenant University is a business, not a church and so it shouldn't be cheap. Nothing good comes cheap anyway. I think the problem is that Nigerians should be more generous. Wealthy christians should give scholarships, meaningful scholarships. I'm looking forward to the day we'd forget about 5-20k scholarships. Look at the American universities. They are not cheap at all, but they have both need and merit based scholarships. I think that's what we need.

Plus, b4 the establishment of private universities, admission into the govt. universities was difficult. Especially because the elites bribed their kids into the univerisities, leaving very few spaces for the masses. Now with the private universities, many elites don't even bother applying to any govt. university; they go straight for the private ones. This has opened up the spaces in the govt. universities more than we may realize.

I don't think the private universities are too expensive. You can't compare the living conditions in Covenant with govt. universties. The clean and beautiful environment. That doesn't come cheap. Many of these students might have gone abroad and paid more than 5 times this amt. Isn't it better that they're spending the money here and creating jobs here?

I have a sister in Covenant University and we're certainly not elites (though i hate to use "masses" for myself). My parents are working hard to keep her there, and they're being rewarded - no strikes, riots, closing down the school prematurely etc.

We should learn to be more positive about Nigeria. Even in the US, many ppl can't afford the private universities. But if we really think of the effects the private universities can have on education as a whole in the country, we'd all be grateful they're around.

Boarding school was GREAT!!!

I attended 2 boarding schools. Left the first one after the first year - JSS1, and finished up the remaining 5 years in the second. I was 10 years when I first went to the boarding house, but wasn't matured at all. Wasn't even taking my bath myself then. However, my sister was in JSS 3 and the school was only up to SS 1 then, so she took care of me (at least for the first few weeks). I really wanted to go to Queens College or any govt. college because I "wanted to teach seniors a lesson", that didn't work though. I always tried to stand up to seniors and got into trouble a lot. My sister was always getting into fights to get me out of trouble. We fought some times too. The housemistress had to tell my mom to separate us so we could learn. We both left the school eventually.

Then I went to another boarding house. This was a new school so I was a senior here. I got into lots of trouble with teachers and spent a lot of time avoiding trouble and teachers. Had a lot of friends and I'm still in contact with a lot of them.

Food wasn't great in any of the two schools, and exam time was always stressfull. I remember taking contrabands when I got into the senior secondary, and sneaking out of the hostel at night to wash clothes. Always trying not to get caught.

Boarding school WAS an adventure. I'm so glad I attended a boarding school. I'd come home on holidays then and have a lot of stories to tell. My sister who by this time was a day student never had as much experiences in school. I remember I'd complain about the food, teachers etc. and my parents would want to remove me from the school but I wouldn't want to leave.

I do not support the third term agenda because I believe others should have the opportunity to be at the helms of affairs of this country, plus, no one is indispensable.

However, I really don't want Atiku to be president. Though he seems to be the only one
of those who've gone public with their 2007 ambitions that's worth considering. Probably because he took the backseat thru'out his vice-presidency to OBJ, I just don't see him as the man-in-charge. To me, he looks like a businessman and maybe a politician, but I think President might be taking it too far. Well, that's just my opinion.

Plus, I think we need to start looking for ppl with track records now. It's not enough that a man is soft spoken, handsome, popular, wealthy, an activist, or says God told him to do it. We need to look for ppl who've shown they have what it takes to lead a large group. During the last elections, every Tom, Dick and Harry wanted to contest. No matter how much rigging might have gone on, I'm almost certain the true results couldn't have been much different. There's no way Gani or Pastor Okotie could have made much difference.


I don't want IBB or Buhari either. I think Kalu and Yerima don't have enough clout to win no matter how free and fair the election is.

I don't know what the basis for their ranking is, but I believe we're very happy ppl. I think the main thing is Nigerians are very optimistic (at least, personally i.e. everyone believes it WILL be well with them someday soon), even illiterates despite the level of poverty. I don't think they base their rankings on satisfaction, but on general happiness. God knows we're a happy ppl.

Foreigners in Nigeria always talk about our warmth and happiness. Imagine ppl struggling to enter buses, walking, or selling in the heavy Ikeja traffic. They should be angry and frustrated, shouting at one another. But when the Amstel Office reality show contestants were performing on the road, many of these ppl took time to watch and appreciate them. That's just an example of how we don't allow everyday problems affect us too much.

Plus, there's so much dancing in Nigerian songs - even songs that complain of our situation, you see them smiling and dancing. Maybe that affected the rating too.

Romeo,

that wasn't what i meant. I mean that we're very diverse, and diversity isn't always easy to manage. Just look at the world as a whole, the West is always having a misunderstanding with the Arabs, Israel and the Arabs. It takes a lot of diplomacy to keep that middle east from erupting in a serious war.

I'm not a history person, but I guess our case must have been like bringing hundreds of independent kingdoms together to form a country. I know the US has a lot of diversity too since people from all countries have settled there. But that's very different from our case. Most immigrants are there in search of greener pastures, and wouldn't risk showing their grievances for fear of deportation. This is not to say there aren't cases of racism/misunderstanding. Plus, Americans are all immigrants, except the Native Americans.

Our case is very different, as every tribe has a piece of land in Nigeria which rightfully belongs to them, and as they cannot be deported or punished, they can fight or do whatever they want to do when they feel they've been wronged. Plus, ours is more than ethnic diversity, there's also religious diversity. How many countries do you have them praying both Christian and Musliim prayers before each government function. Look at the Islamic and Hindu countries, christians are persecuted. In the Western countries, when they pray it's Christian. Nigeria, on the other hand, has learnt to live with two dominant religions, which are both incorporated into our national programmes. Yes, we have cases of fights but it can be worse and the fights are usually because some states want to make Nigeria a one-religion country. But on the whole, we are better than many countries in this aspect.

Demmy, i'm not saying America shouldn't get involved in African issues. We need them to interfere every now and then. But they should learn to respect our decisions. No country can go and tell America how to handle matters in Iraq. Why can't they let the Liberians run their country the way they want?

My main problem with the US is that even though Liberia was formerly their colony, they didn't want to get involved in the heat of the war. I read in in the newspaper that they carried all their citizens away and abandoned the country because they had no interests there. It took Nigeria to come up with a solution - removing Taylor. America had tried to get him away, they couldn't Nigeria did and I feel they should have respected that.

Taylor was a democratically elected president (even though CNN says ppl voted out of fear), and he could have chosen not to agree to the proposal. But he did. There was a deal, America was trying to make Nigeira/OBJ renege on that deal only months after. That was very bad. They even threatened to stop aids to Nigeria. That's the attitude I'm condemning. Imagine if Nigeria had given up Taylor immediately they started asking for him, it would have seemed we can't keep our word. America would have used it against us someday.

I'm not saying Taylor shouldn't face justice. All I'm saying is America must have respect for African leaders. If you can't do something and someone else comes ahead and does it, you should give the person some space and respect.

Plus, America seemed to be more interested in Taylor than in Liberia. All the while Taylor was on exile in Nigeria, America could only think of how to get him. They who didn't want to get involved in the war now wanted to take over the whole process. I think the worst part of the whole thing was they had the means to help a country that had been destroyed in a 14-year war, and they decided they'd only help if they handed over Taylor. This made a president who had announced only a few months ago that Taylor wasn't her priority to publicly change her mind. That was blackmail.

Blue2,

OBJ didn't exactly personalize this whole thing. Nigeria had to take the initiative, no other country came forth with a viable solution. We should be proud of what we/OBJ accomplished in Liberia. Come to think of it, we'd spent $15 billion already. At least we can now say the money achieved something - the war has ended. If he didn't bring Taylor over and the war had continued, we'd have continued spending money there and we can't imagine how things would have gone.

Even though CNN and other foreign media may misrepresent the facts, the truth remains that Taylor wasn't toppled out of office. Nigeria invited him over and made some promises. I read 2day that they weren't sure till that day that he would accept the proposal. If you watched his arrival in Nigeria, u'll see he came here as a president (or ex-), certainly not as a criminal/wanted man etc.

I don't think the Nigerian govt. was against his going on trial. They probably just didn't want American interference.

Twinstaiye,

I always had that feeling too, that George Weah won the election but other African leaders felt he wasn't qualified because of his lack of education & exposure, and chose the highly educated woman instead. Weah seemed to know it too, as he protested at the Nigerian embassy there. I hope that after America pays whatever they promised to pay Liberia for Taylor, Mrs. Sirleaf would not give in to them again in any other situation. This is not just politics, it's blackmail. I hope she'll be able to deal with it when next it happens, because America would probably do something like this again.


It's so sad that America can push African leaders around, when they obviously don't care very much (except when their interests are affected). I wonder what their real agenda is in this case, as they refused to get involved in the heat of the war.

I remember a book I read some time ago by Derek Prince about praying for countries. He said Christians are supposed to be the "salt of the earth", we should be "kings and priests" unto God.

This is a call to duty to us Nigerian Christians. So many things are happening in this country and it is not enough for us to just complain or discuss these issues. We can make a difference by praying. We've got the power of agreement. Imagine what we can do if thousands of us pray for Nigeria.

I read in the newspapers last year of an organisation that wanted to lauch a prayer program where Christians prayed for at least 5 minutes every day for Nigeria. I've not heard about them since, but we could start something like that. Let's all just take it as a duty to pray for the will of God to be done in Nigeria every day. For peace and progress in every part of the country. Not against any man in particular, as we wrestle not with flesh and blood but principalities and powers.

I heard during the weekend that Pastor Adeboye said God revealed to him that the enemy is planning for Nigeria to be like Rwanda. We must pray against it.

We should also take occassion to pray for the Church in Nigeria and abroad.

I don't want a 3rd term for the present administration. They've done well, but I feel we should let someone else have a chance at presidencey.

I'm bothered though, about our choices - IBB, Buhari, Atiku, Kalu, Yerima. I really can't see a president in the last 3, and IBB and Buhari - NO PLEASE!

Also, we need a detribalised Nigerian like OBJ. There are very few, I'm not even sure I know one.

However, if IBB, Buhari, Atiku, Kalu and Yerima are all the options we have, we might as well begin to consider this 3rd term bid.

Taylor's case might be embarrassing to some Nigerians, but I wish all Nigerians for once can stand for Nigeria. Nigeria isn't about Obasanjo, it's about all of us. Let's show the rest of the world that we're proud of who we are. We shouldn't be made to feel less because of what happened. Alamiseigha escaped from Britain and nobody made noise about it. Besides, Nigeria (and Obasanjo) played a very crucial role in stopping the Liberian war. Let's not allow the rest of the world make rubbish of that. Let's not let them make us feel like criminals. Imagine how many ppl would have died btw August 2003 and now if the war was still on. No matter what anyone says, we did something very noble there.


Sometimes we tend to think of it as OBJ's problem, and if we don't like him, we join the rest of the world. This is wrong. Many Americans don't like Bush, but will stand for their country anytime and anywhere. Nigeria belongs to us all and needs us now to stand for her. We're doing this for ourselves, not OBJ. We shouldn't allow the foreign press to shape our thoughts, especially of ourselves. America doesn't have all the answers, they've got problems like other countries. We aren't the only country with problems, plus, we've done a better job than many countries handling our problems. How many countries can u see over 250 different indigenous tribes with different cultures and languages cohabiting like we do? How many countries do u see muslims and christians and traditional religions cohabiting like we do, with each group having some fundamental rights and being represented in the govt? We've got some strong points, we're not a pushover. We shouldn't accept this from these ppl. We are SOMETHING!


BTW, why are other African leaders quiet?

Isn't it odd that other Africans are now saying we are corrupt? What efforts did their countries make to solve the Liberian war. Yes, we are corrupt, but they run to Nigeria when they have problems. We are corrupt, but Nigeria has always been in the forefront of maintaining peace in Africa. I'm not aware that we've needed other African countries to come and help us keep peace in recent times.

The West (USA) is manipulating Africa. BTW, those who say Nigeria has no reputation and is corrupt should take a closer look at what Liberia is doing. They are actually selling/exchanging Taylor for US aid. Forget all the talk about war crimes and all, the fact is that US is tying their aid for Liberia to the handing over of Charles Taylor. Mrs. Sirleaf said as much at the UN secretariat in the US, when she said she hoped the US can now take their eyes of one man (Taylor) and focus on 22 million ppl (Liberians). Doesn't this smell suspicious? If this isn't bribery and corruption, I'm not sure there's such a thing as corruption.

It's bad that Taylor escaped, but Nigeria isn't to blame. We never said we'd arrest or prosecute him, we said we'd grant him asylum. Mrs. Sirleaf was dodging her responsibility by asking us to arrest him. why didn't she want to come and pick him up from here and take him to sierraleone? because she's afraid the war would start all over.

I remember shortly after Taylor arrived here, an NTA reporter went to a Liberian village with relief materials from Nigeria. She recounted how Liberians had mistreated Nigerians in that village and the villagers were very sad, said they were sorry. It's so funny that only 3 years after, many Liberians are insulting Nigeria over Taylor's disappearance again. They were helpless, we helped. Why didn't America help them? It was Nigeria who led the AU & ECOWAS to bring peace to the country. Obasanjo made his stance clear from the onset.

The US has an agenda here. Bush praised Obasanjo after the peace deal, only to demand for Taylor months after. Why is America so much after one man in Africa. If they so much love Liberia, why are they hinging their aid on Taylor's prosecution? They could have spent a little fraction of the money they spent destroying & rebuilding Iraq on Liberia. It would have done a lot of good. They now want to make us look like dirt.

Obasanjo has his faults, but I admire him for maintaining his stand against American (and international) pressure. We know America doesn't really have time for Africa, except when they want us to do their bidding. Mrs. Sirleaf said immediately after her inauguration that Taylor wasn't her priority; rebuilding Liberia was. She fell to American pressure and made Taylor a priority. I pray this doesn't cause trouble in the region. I respect Obasanjo for showing that blacks don't have to be at the beck and call of the West.

Why didn't anyone quarrel with the British authorities when Alamiseigha jumped bail. How about the US, when Taylor escaped from the Boston prison. There was a general feeling that the US masterminded Taylor's escape then so he could help them topple Doe's govt. Maybe he reneged on their deal and their now trying to punish him for that.

America is saying there'll be consequences. I hope they're not planning to make us an extension of Afghanistan and Iraq. They might just be taking a bite to large for them to chew. Or maybe they'll cut off aid. I'm not sure how much our economy would suffer for it, but I know it's the thieving elites that would miss their aid the most.

Many Africans are insulting Nigeria now, but when they have problems their leaders rush here. If they know we're corrupt, why do they accept our help? This is why Africa is backward - we don't know when to be subservient to the rest of the world and when not to. Anyway, history would record that Nigeria only set out to help Liberia, as we've been helping other African countries despite our own troubles. The world said this before now.

I liken the onitsha case to the fight between Nigerian and Beninoise youths recently or to family feuds. That's not strange.

The fight in the north is just senseless. The more I think of it, I'm convinced that the perpertrators are depraved. How do you kill your brother because someone else offended you?

Some ppl argue that the perpertrators are criminals who happen to be muslims, but I maintain that the Islamic world can take a definite stance against violence/terrorism that would make everyone know that they don't support it, and that perpertrators are just criminals,

Nigeria's stance on 419 is an example, ppl familiar with the issue can now tell that Nigerians are not all 419ers and Nigeria isn't about 419. They see us prosecuting offenders. However, if our leaders were to say to the international community, "you guys have our monies stashed up in ur banks, so u have no right to call us 419ers, cos u're also cheating us. Besides those doing it are just criminals.", everyone would know that Nigeria is truly a 419 country.

One may argue that Nigeria, as a state, has the authority to prosecute offenders. So I'll use the Christian Church and homosexuality as an example. This is just to show how a religious group can take a definite stance on certain issues, and not to cast a swipe on homosexuals.

The Christian Church has been very vocal against homosexuality, even though there are many ppl withing the Church practicing it. These ppl have actually had to strive with the Church to gain acceptance, and this has divided the Church. The Anglican Church is an English church, but even though the English branch has begun accepting homosexuals, the African section has refused, very loudly, to accept them. They even threatened to break away from the mother church. This is a VERY bold step and anyone can tell the Nigerian Anglican Communion's stance on homosexuality. This is notable when you consider that homosexuality is a human rights issue, and unlike violence/terrorism doesn't infringe on the rights of others.

The Catholic Church's stance on abortion, birth control pills is another one. If a Church can be so bold against something so many ppl think is right, why can't Islam (in Nigeria and worldwide) take such a bold, visible stance against violence/terrorism, which everyone agrees is bad and tramples on the rights of others?

Great points, Ijebuman, but we're on two very different planes here.

You're looking for reasons why the christian issue of Rapture is false. I don't know you, but if you are not a christian then it's perfectly understandable that you should believe its a myth. Like someone's signature says, "the gospel is foolishness to those who don't believe".

I'm looking for signs that show the Rapture is near.

The only thing people on either plane can do together is argue about if the Rapture is a myth or not.

The Rapture is a very important issue for christians and we're admonished to watch for it. This is why we must look for the signs and watch and pray. Thus, I feel we need a thread where we can do that without disturbance from those who may want to argue about the Rapture. I think we should use the "Christians only" part of this forum for important christian issues that need to be discussed with seriousness.

Oasis,

sorry but I don't think your analysis is right. The issue here is just not weak leadership and the Nigerian situation can't be compared with the American one. Why?

1. America was originally a christian nation and was built on christian values.  While they believe in giving immigrants the opportunity to live happily in their country, they do not change their laws to please immigrants.  Nigeria is neither a christian or a muslim nation. We have to consider both religions in planning almost everything, and this isn't a very easy task.

2. Religion DOES have a place in America, but Americans are generally not as religious as Nigerians. Nigerians are probably the most religious mixed society. By mixed society I mean where both christians and muslims are allowed by law to practice their religions.

3. Many of the muslims in America are immigrants, who left their countries due to harsh economic conditions and won't want to cause any trouble that would jeopardize their stay there. American citizens or children born to immigrants in the US, who are muslims, grow up learning to love their country and to uphold their country's values/laws above foreign ones. They learn to respect the beliefs of others, just as their beliefs and that of their immigrant parents have been respected even though they are a minority.
Muslims here are indigenes of Nigeria and have no reason to fear deportation. (see the case of northern muslims in lagos. I'm certain that if you take these northern trouble-makers to America and give them a good life there, they'll be very calm)

4. You can't compare the diversity in Nigeria with America, or any Western country. We've got over 250 different tribes, each with their culture, beliefs etc. In many cases, you can tell a person's tribe just from his/her physical appearance. That's how diverse we are. It isn't so with Americans - with exception of immigrants from other countries and these are usually very willing to become Americans. They traditionally have one religion, we have hundreds. You can't tell an American's state by his looks - only by accents.

Thus, I don't think u should compare the case of Nigeria with the US. I think Nigeria is doing a better job dealing with diversity than most other countries. Take China or India for example, their laws put christians' - even christian citizens - lives at risk. The Islamic states are very hostile to Christians. I read today of an Iranian refugee who ran from Iran after being sentenced to death for forsaking Islam.

I believe that even the US would have problems if they had our kind of diversity, and our kind of muslim fanatics. Note that the US had to investigate some of their muslim citizens (mostly immigrants) after September 11.

In Nigeria, everyone is normally free to live where he wants in peace - except for the northern states that have decided to make the north a purely muslim society. I don't have the statistics, but I'm quite certain that there are not societies with the same christian-muslim ratio as we have in the South-West of Nigeria that have the kind of religious tolerance we have here.

I think the problem we have in Nigeria is that the muslims in the north have decided to make Islam the culture of the northern part of the country. This doesn't go down well with christians living there. this is evidenced in their insistence on sharia rule in states that have christian residents. The South-West, on the other hand, is peaceful because south-western muslims respect the cultures of their land (which were there b4 Islam came) and the religions of their non-muslim neighbours. To them Islam is a religion, and possibly their way of life.


I must say though, that it seems that nowadays, in places where Christians are a majority everything goes well .e.g. Southern Nigeria, US, Canada, UK, South Africa etc. But in places where Muslims are a majority, Christians are persecuted .e.g. Northern Nigeria, India, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Egypt etc. In fact, it seems christians are persecuted wherever they are a minority .e.g. China, India, Isreal etc.

I voted 'Yes'. As a christian, the bible tells us not to kill, and not to revenge but to leave vengeance to God.

I don't think the onitsha crises was a christian vs. muslim one - if it was they would have killed Ibo muslims (just like northerners kill northern christians). From what I read in the papers, the violence was triggered by d sight of a luxurious bus bringing corpses of Ibos to owerri. The ibos then went on to retaliate. The govt. hasn't been sincere in clamping down on offenders in the past, so I can understand why the Ibos didn't leave it to them. The northerners had no reason at all to fight christians there, because many of them didn't know anything about the cartoon. They burnt over 30 churches with a priest in one. They burnt 13 children from 2 families in their houses. I think the Ibos are justified.

We should note that the Ibos didn't begin fighting the same day the northerners started killing christians. it was when they brought the bodies - they were fighting the relatives of those who killed their relatives. If the govt. and muslim society had done something concrete immediately the northern crises began, the Ibos might have not retaliated. But it was obvious the govt. wasn't going to do anything then. I wonder what they will do now.

i think this should have been put on the 'Christian only' part of this forum. why? The Second Coming of Jesus is of great importance to us Christians and I believe that when we want to discuss it, we need to be focused on the signs and what He said. Anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus cannot believe in the Rapture. This thread was probably meant to alert Christians on the signs of the end, but has now turned into an argument about whether or not Jesus is coming. Pls let us not let this topic die away, it is very important.

Maybe someone should start a thread about whether Jesus is coming again, or better still if there is any Jesus/God, for those who do not believe in Him and want to discuss facts, myths etc.


I believe that the end is very near too. Take Nigeria for example, everything seems to be falling apart. The 'threads' holding us together are wearing out fast. The civilized world seems to be preparing for war. With the talk of nuclear weapons and all. The religious divide is becoming more pronounced. America is close to an energy breakthrough that will break their 'addiction' to oil. The oil-rich countries (Saudi Arabia, Nigeria etc.) would suffer heavy losses, especially as some depend solely on oil. There's always one new disease or the other. I read in the papers last year of a prediction of some planetary mishap involving the earth (i think we're going to collide with some other planet) in some years to come. Tsunami, hurricaines, floods, earthquakes, aircrashes etc. There has never been so much knowledge and wealth in the world as we have now, but there are still so many problems. There's so much food but ppl are dying of hunger. Global worming, and other environmental problems. The middle east is still very shaky, we can't really say what will happen 2moro.

Seun,

u said d killers/protesters are just criminals and it's only a coincidence that the happen to be northerners and muslims.

the world doesn't really believe in coincidences anymore. there should be some sort of explanation for everything. afterall, that's the basis of atheism - too much is left to coincidence and unexplainable supernatural forces in religion. no hard facts. so why do we keep regarding this violence as coincidence. This is the very thing I'm against - when these things happen we pretend that they're just coincidences. Check all the global terrorist attacks so far and see the percentage of muslims. Check all the religious clashes in Nigeria and other countries with large percentages of christians and muslims and see those that were perpertrated by muslims. check out all the times Jesus has been insulted in movies, press etc. globally; compare it with Muhammed/Allah and see the responses.

Do you still think it is a coincidence? How about the Iranian authorities encouraging it? The Kano legislators, who haven't yet provided drinking water for all their citizens, promising a prize for the person who can kill the cartoonist? No one has come out to disown them, even though they are doing it in the name of Islam. What do you have to say about the Kano govt. putting up rules that infringe the rights of christians there. How come no organisation is fighting it. Where are all the human rights organisations? When it comes to violence in the name of Islam, the whole world turns a blind eye.
Did you notice that the Nigerian govt. isn't mentioning Islam in their statements. They're saying all religions should learn to live in peace. Why all the beating around the bush. Let's be frank with ourselves. When did all religions in Nigeria fight? Isn't it the muslims that have been fighting all the time. Isn't it the muslims in the north that have been doing so. Why are they trying to make it look like there are no christians there? Why did they oppose ethnicity and religion in the upcoming census? I think we've pretended enough, we must fight against this or else Nigeria will become an Islamic nation.

Since we've been having such clashes, how many of these demonstrators have been brought to book. Don't these cases just die down and we all act like we're eager to see/hear something else from the media? For those that say it is an ethnic clash in the guise of a religious one - how come they kill fellow northerners who are christians?

I'm not disputing that there are millions of rational muslims worldwide, but if you check they are the ones who realize that when they live with non-muslims, Islam must be a religion and not a culture.


sorry for all the long posts but this is just one issue that touches my heart. it has the potential of destroying this nation.

If Nigeria kept telling the world that we are not 419ers but honest ppl, and we didn't do anything about it, the world would have laughed at us and we would have been deceiving ourselves. What did we do, we acknowledged that there were a lot of 419ers amongst us and we started punishing them. Now, the world knows that we do not support this activity.

This issue of muslims being violent isn't a Nigerian thing. It is everywhere. Take for example, the 2004 nations cup - Tunisia 2004. Egyptian and Algerian fans (i'm not too sure of the 2 countries, but i'm certain it was 2 Islamic countries) fought themselves with cutlasses on the streets of Tunisia. Tunisian fans threatened the lives of Nigerians on the day they were to play against us.

What about the 2003 CAF Champions league final match where Enyimba beat an Egyptian club?

What about the violence going on in other countries, with Islamic leaders promising prizes for anyone who can kill the cartoonists? Or are the Islamic leaders also criminals and hooligans? If they are, why are the good and law-abiding muslims still looking up to them for spiritual guidance?

How many global terrorists are not muslims? How many ppl can strap bombs to the bodies of the children they bore and send them on suicide missions? Who are those doing it - muslims.

We can decide to be civilized, tactful and diplomatic. But the truth is, based on the facts on ground, muslims are presenting a violent front to the world. I, for one, cannot read the Koran to decide what Islam is all about so I make my conclusions from the lifestyles of muslims. I know many good muslims, but they are ALL from the south of Nigeria (with exception to mallams, who are really struggling to make a living here in lagos). Most of what I hear of muslims elsewhere, including Northern Nigeria, is negative. If I go by logic, u know what the conclusion would be.

There are many ppl, however, who don't even know any muslims personally. All they hear is on tv. How do you sell them this religion-of-peace message when all they see and here is muslims killing ppl over nothing?

I've even heard of them killing/fighting their relatives who forsook the religion.

Ralex,
yes, the world is a global village and a string pulled here can vibrate thousands of miles away. however, in this global age intelligence and civilization abounds and ppl are expected to know how to react in certain situations. muslims should have learnt how to react to this from other religions. afterall, nigerians have kidnapped americans and britons several times now, why haven't they retaliated since there are many nigerians in the US and UK? or don't they have criminals and hooligans there?

Ralex,

I’m tired of hearing this lame excuse about the Crusades. That was then, Christians haven’t done such in a long while. It’s muslims who are doing it now and all we’re saying is it must stop. Mind you, it was Christians who stopped the killings. Now we’re asking muslims to do the same; we can’t fold our hands and say Christians once did it so it’s their turn. Plus the Crusades took place in Europe – this is taking place in Europe, Middle East, Asia, Africa (may God not let it spread to North America, cos then they’ll have taken over the world).

However, as I stated earlier that was Europe – this is Nigeria. These ppl – northern muslims – have always done this. Isn’t this insanity – someone said something about a group you belong to in a far away country and you begin to kill people in your country, many of whom don’t even know there was any cartoon. They burnt 30 churches and killed a priest and several others.

Concerning the Danish press, I believe they didn’t have to do it since they knew muslims would react with violence. However, it is their country they didn’t put it in an international paper, it was in a small local paper. Thus, I think those who really should be at their worst is the Danish muslims and they are taking it with a lot of maturity. Denmark isn’t a muslim country. Just as muslims have their values – not drawing their prophet – the Danes have theirs – freedom of speech/ expression. Just as muslims expect others to respect their values, they should learn to respect the values of others too. Especially when they are immigrants. Majority of muslims in Europe are immigrants and they must learn to respect the culture and values of Europeans, afterall they weren’t forced to live there. And if they don’t like it they should live. I would never go to most Islamic countries because I don’t want to be bound by their laws. They shouldn’t expect every country they go to to change their laws for them.

You mentioned the muslims in the South West. They, Yoruba muslims, are different because they realize that they are in a secular society and their religion cannot become the culture here. They respect the rules of the land and other religions.

Pls I would love you, Ralex, and Cushman to comment on the fact that some muslim militants added more derogatory drawings of Muhammed to incite more violence. For some reason, no one is talking about that. Why?

We're tired of hearing those "these ppl are not committed muslims" excuses. Why is the Islamic society not doing anything? Why are Islamic nations at the forefront of the violence? Let's call a spade a spade, hasn't this gone on for too long? These ppl thrive on our silence. If they don't respect human lives, we have no reason at all to respect them. They are animals.

I believe that most of these problems are caused by some muslim political and religious bigwigs, who thrive on the riots. But why should the ordinary ppl be their robots? It's so funny that these bigwigs keep getting richer and the poor ones get poorer, yet they still act as their robots. These ppl send their children to the Western countries, who are supposedly infidels, while igniting hatred in the hearts of ordinary ppl against the West.

If the ordinary ppl decide to be robots for their leaders, then they are as guilty. I don't see why they should fight for Muhammed or God. If He is God, let Him fight for Himself. How can He be God if He depends on humans to fight for Him. I won't fight anybody for insulting Jesus or any prophet - living or dead. The bible tells us that our God is a consuming fire, He is strong and mighty in battle. He can fight for Himself. When the King of Israel sent an army to capture Elijah in the bible, he dealt with them singlehandedly. So, muslims should stop fighting for Muhammed, especially as they say he was a peaceful person.



ppl pls don't mind my continuous posting, i'm sick and tired of hearing of muslims killing christians in the north, yet they live in peace in the south. They've made it look like there are only muslims in the north, whereas there are many christians there too. I wish the govt. would add religion and ethnicity to the upcoming census. Then, christians in the north may have a greater bargaining power.