₦airaland Forum

People have a right to get married regardless of their health status. I think, however, that they should be advised to either not have kids (they can adopt) or go through the route that prevents a child born to HIV mother from the virus. I heard a doctor say on tv some years ago that the children born using those drugs had different kinds of defects. If this is still the case, they shouldn't be allowed to have kids - they should be encouraged to adopt.

Actually, I think it is best to encourage marriage btw HIV positive ppl, it's much better than HIV positive and HIV negative marrying. It might help prevent the spread of the virus.

Idekeson:
The potency of any religion depends to a large extent on its mystic. Whether it is the tongue speaking of Christians or the incantations of a witch doctor, it's all aimed at the same effect.

Yes, I believe many ppl speak in tongues now for show considering the way they blast it everywhere. It is meant to be a form of communication between you and God and can be spoken in a congregation of believers only, but not with unbelievers present. Paul probably guessed something like this would happen when he tried to play it down a little without diminishing its importance. I am not for shouting while speaking in tongues. The same thing goes for private prayers, I believe if you're talking to God then let Him alone hear.

ajia23:
At that time, everybody said Jesus is the Son of God. I mean, in the 70's that's all we used to hear. Allof a sudden in the 80's and 90's, we started hearing Jesus is God. And of course the bible still provided evidence for this. Methinks that whenever the rich countries feel like changing the doctrine that is taught especially in protestant churches, they call a few misiters and pastors together, show them the new doctrine, and back them up with money. Before long, it catches like wild fire.

The point you're missing is that Christianity is all about following Jesus Christ as revealed by the Bible. We can't just come up with a new theory and say this is christianity, we test all truths by the bible. However, it is possible for a person or church to suddenly realize that they have been overlooking some important thing in the bible. The bible doesn't change, and it is the same with christianity. We christians are humans and are prone to change.

ajia23:
During the time of Jesus, evidence available in history books show that he was considered human. 400 years later, he became divine by an act of a meeting in 325 A.D. You see, that's how it works. And it's this problem of declaring anything that contradicts their beliefs as devlish that plunged mankind into the dark ages. Thank God for the scientific renaissance, we still would have been in bondage.

Like I said, the bible can't change. The bible not only confirms the divinity of Jesus, but tells us that any spirit that denies it is the spirit of the antichrist. This is why Christians declare anything contrary to this as devilish; the bible has told us just that and we believe and accept the authority of the bible. Jesus was considered divine while He was alive by those who believed in Him. Afterall, He equated Himself with God, who isn't human. The people regarded Him as a great prophet, but His followers believed He was God.

ajia23:
They claim muslims are intolerant, and are quick to point out that we are prone to fights, but forget the immediate past history of christianity and it's flag bearers.

The catholics are the ones who killed ppl, and they even killed protestant christians. This issue comes up whenever ppl talk about muslims being intolerant. The main issue is we're in a very civilized and much less conservative world, yet muslims don't seem to realize this. It's easy for you to talk about tolerance on the internet, but let's take a look at the real world. The Islamic countries have some of the worst oppression issues. Women are being suppressed and oppressed, someone made a film about it and was killed by muslims. Muslim apostates are condemned to death, even by learned people. People get killed for carrying bibles on the streets.

It's funny when ppl say christianity doesn't allow ppl think. It's only in countries where christianity is the major religion (whether d ppl still practice or not) that you see a diversity of opinions. Can homosexuals go to any Islamic country and ask for rights? Can ppl insult God in Islamic countries? See what happens whenever someone insults Mohammed and compare to the many times Jesus gets insulted, particularly in the US - a country built on christian principles. Look at all the ppl behind civilization, those who invented one thing or the other, and especially those who proposed new ideas that changed the world e.g. Darwin. You see that majority of them were from christian backgrounds, some even ministers' children. Christianity is a religion of liberty, and that is why you see a lot of things in christian groups that you may never see in muslim groups. For example, even though fornication must be occuring in the muslim areas of this country, it is hidden. This is unlike in the south of Nigeria, or in the West, were it isn't seen as a big deal and most ppl wont even use that word.

ajia23:
It may interest you to know that God said a certain group of christians would enter heaven, in the Quran. He said they were christians, and they were Sabians, they believed in their lord, and they will be admitted into Gardens under which rivers flow. These particular group of christians are the monotheist. Not the polytheists that are prevalent today. And God even allows muslims to marry them, nd eat their food. How much tolerant can a religion get?

Christians are NOT polytheists. No one can claim to be a christian and be a polytheist, as the bible talks about only ONE God. When christians say we worship a different God, what they actually mean is other religions' descriptions of God are so different from ours that it might lead one to believe they are talking about another God. All christians, however, believe there's only one God.

Jesus didn't go to Egypt to learn to read and write. He didn't learn, that's why the people were surprised when he read and explained scriptures in the Synagogue.

Matthew, Mark, Luke, Paul were educated. Peter and John most likely weren't, since they were fishermen. It is believed in some theological circles that Mark wrote 1st and 2nd Peter for Peter, and that the Gospel according to Mark was actually Peter's account of what happened. Mark was a little boy all the while Jesus was around and Peter must have filled him in on the details. John might have had someone in the church write his letters for him. Paul did the same several times too. If I have an idea and dictate it to someone to write or type it for me, it doesn't change the fact that i am the author, except if the person edits it to accomodate his own ideas. This couldn't have happened in the case of the biblical letters of Paul and John and even Peter, because for one the ppl who wrote these letters were committed members of the church. Plus, these apostles usually visited the churches to whom the letters were addressed and must have had to explain the contents of their letters. they would have known if there were any errors

Mamaput,

the pope, bishops, pastors are not puppets. they are the leaders and like Peter, they are to take care of Jesus's sheep. They are not the owner of the flock, just appointed shepherds. Thus, they are not to bring in any law contrary to that of the owner, Jesus. They are human beings and should be given the respect due to leaders, but shouldn't be treated as gods. They are not infallible.

Yes, Peter was the first leader of the Church. Jesus handed the church over to him. Pastors should take a cue from Peter in their leadership roles.

Yes, Peter was married. The bible doesn't forbid pastors/leaders from marrying. It actually says that bishops/pastors should be husbands of one wife. Peter even warned against doctrines that would forbid marrying or eating meat on certain days. This is one reason why mainstream evangelical churches argue that the catholic chuch has many un-Christian doctrines.

These are just some cases of churches making laws contrary to the bible.

mamaput,

i'm not a history person, but i believe the killing u're talking about wasn't limited to non-christians. i recall reading about the Catholic church persecuting protestant christians. they even killed and burned them for speaking in tongues. I didn't even know the pope apologized over it. Obviously they were acting out of selfishness and greed, and not according to the bible.

mamaput,

the church is founded upon Jesus and believes and accepts the bible as the Word of God. Every church law that contradicts the bible is false. Christians live according to the bible and not the local church's laws.

If you really want to know if the bible has been adulterated, I guess you can check out different sources. However, there is textual evidence that no fundamental Christian doctrine rests on a disputed passage of the bible.

The bible IS a historical book, just that it is much more than that. the events in the bible weren't just cooked up, they have been dated by comparing them with other historical accounts.

ajia23,

You misunderstood my reference to Israel. Maybe u should read d post where I origianally mentioned Israel and Iran to Nuru and his reply. I wasn't talking about the problem btw Israel and Palestine. I was only telling Nuru that the problem Israel has with the Iran and other Muslim countries is religious. I dont want to discuss the issue btw the two countries, but I must say that I have nothing at all against Palestinians or even muslims. I was only refuting some of Nuru's claims.

Concerning the Iranian president, I didn't say he killed. I said he's doing his thing (issuing threats to Israel etc) in the name of Islam. Even this nuclear weapon issue, he's brought religion into it in several statements.

Seun:
Libertarianism. The belief that government should not interfere in the lives of citizens, other than to provide police and military protection. Libertarianism cannot easily be placed on the left-right scale that is usually used to analyze political philosophies. Libertarians are strong supporters of capitalism and free trade and yet also tolerant on social and lifestyle issues, which are considered none of the government's business. The basic philosophy is "live and let live." -- iAmericanSpirit Political Dictionary

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/lib-whatlib-define.html

What's there not to like about it? I trust myself to make better decisions than any politician.

Does that mean that everybody sets his own laws? No rules?

actually, i think the evironmental/cleaning issue is more of a lack of ideas than funds. The govt. should provide dustbins (of course, d ppl would pay) and charge fees for private companies to collect and dispose of properly. They could have cheaper plans for those in rural areas, and even involve secodary school children.

Why do we keep hammering on this one verse, and disobeying so many other.

This isn't to say that we should disobey this because some others aren't being obeyed.

Considering that the bible didn't specify what clothes, and that men weren't wearing trousers then, we can't say it's a sin for women to wear trousers. i believe God wanted a distinction between the sexes. I believe also, that as a christian nothing should come btw you and God. If trousers would harm ur relationship with God, you are to stop wearing it.

davidylan:
As for me and my house, we will take the safe road of no trousers for my wife-to-be and daughters no matter how badly they want them.

Trust me, you can speak for your wife-to-be, but definately not for your daughters. If you are too hard on them, they'll sneak around and wear it. This is very dangerous. The best thing you can do is to introduce them to Jesus early in life and let them have personal relationships with Him. Teach them to crosscheck all their actions with Him first and when they get to their teenage years let them know your feelings about dressing. If they still want to wear trousers after all this, pls let them wear. It's the safest thing to do.

Nuru,

Let's get real here. There's no way anyone can claim muslims don't kill adherents of other religions. we have more than enough examples of such incidents in Nigeria alone, not to talk of in other countries. ppl do such things now and then so it wouldn't have been a muslim issue but for the consistency with which this happens both at home and abroad. also, they kill apostates. The Iranian president, Osama bin Laden etc. are all doing their thing in the name of Islam. I've not yet seen any main Islamic leaders coming to condemn it. See the incidence of the Danish cartoons. The best excuse you can give is that people have carried grievances into their practice of Islam and taken it to another level.

I'm not saying the Islamic countries are the only poor ones, all I'm saying is (with regard to your claim of love, brotherhood and unity) that they have some of the highest levels of oppression. This is evidenced by the fact that even the rich Islamic countries have a very high gap between the rich and the poor. What's the essence of standing beside an emir to pray or eating from his table during feasts when my kids can never afford the luxuries his kids can, and when my kids would also depend on his kids for meals during the feasts. This is not only a monopoly of Islamic countries alone, it is the same in the North of Nigeria, and probably in other Islamic communities. Maybe because submission is a big issue in Islam, there is a lot of oppression by the leaders. they cheat and misinform the ppl, yet keep them loyal to them.

Israel is obviously NOT a political issue, there's some politics involved but at the root of it all it is a religious issue.

I, for one, am not afraid of reading the Koran. I simply don't believe it would be helpful; it denies that Jesus is Christ, and is the Son of God. The bible calls that the anti-Christ. For this reason, i believe Christians should not read the Koran for leisure or inspiration, but solely for academic reasons. That's my opinion. There's no possible way someone on an academic quest can read the Koran to know more about Jesus, as there are several historical books that would be more effective.

As you said, the Koran says the bible acknowledges that the bible is from God, even though there are a lot of differences. The bible however, warns against any prophet (or doctrine) that would claim to be of God but deny Christ. Just as you think the bible has been adulterated, there is no reason for me not to think the Koran hasn't been adulterated. Whether the Koran has been adulterated or not doesn't really make much difference though, because the current content is contradictory to the bible. there is some textual evidence that the bible is still the same. see http://www.ccel.org/contrib/exec_outlines/bible/bible_01.htm

Nuru,

Jesus called Himself the Son of God several times when He called God His father. He didn't refer to God as His father in the same terms as He did when He said to the people, "your Father in heaven". He actually equated Himself to God; He put them on the same level. In John 3:16 however, He stated it quite clearly that He is the "Only begotten Son of God". This was His own confession to Nicodemus. I hear that there is a Koranic passage that says something like God wasn't begotten and begot no one. That's a big contradiction, and clearly someone is lying - either Jesus or Mohammed. We (christians) say Jesus is right, muslims say Mohammed is. Obviously these are two very different religions.

Christianity is a very exclusive religion; the bible makes claims that do not give room for so many prevailing beliefs, including Islam. This is why christians are sometimes viewed as being narrow-minded. The truth is that there is no intermediate, if you do not believe certain christian truths, you're definitely not a christian. The difference btw Christianity and Islam is shown in 1 John 2:22-23:

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. [23] Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.


The name "Christ" signifies the salvation Jesus brought to men. "Christians" are the followers of Jesus. I don't see how you can claim to follow Jesus Christ and say you're not a christian.


It's so funny to see muslims so eager to prove that Islam is similar to Christianity. You can claim to be the true followers of Jesus. However, it is obvious that we are not talking about the same personality, since the Jesus you talk about is not the Christ, and therefore not the same Jesus Christ christians worship

That would explain why Lagos state owes teachers a lot. I know several teachers who always have one complaint or the other concerning their salaries. true, we need a system that would balance things out; a state like Lagos should be getting much more. and the northern states, maybe less. Niger Delta should get much more.

I really wish Lagos could be cleaner.

16 million! i didn't realize we're that many in Lagos - over 10% of the country's pop'n. I can imagine that Lagos is getting much less than is due. However, I think that this is more reason why the govt. needs to find ways of making money that will also benefit the state.

Kenshin, wearing trousers would not send one to hell, it is lack of faith in Jesus or not being born again that would make someone go to hell. When we become born again, the power of God helps us overcome our weaknesses.


Kimba, the laws of Moses were cultural laws for the Israelites. They had no king; God was their King, their lawmaker, their everything. He chose Moses to be His spokesperson and He was giving them the laws by which they were to live. Jesus said He didn't come to do away with those laws, however, He came to fulfill them. Jesus wanted to do away with legalism and help the Jews please God from their hearts. Note that the apostles were in this kind of dilemna over circumscision and the gentiles. The Holy Spirit helped them understand that the important thing is circumscision of the heart. The gentiles were not forced to become Jews by practicing all the laws. I believe that those laws are good and beneficial for all who wish to go by them, but are not binding on non-Jews. In Leveticus 22:8, God told the Israelites not to eat any animal that died on its own, but that they can sell it to foreigners. This goes to show that these are cultural laws, the reason is that Israelites, being holy (set apart) to God, were to be different from the heathen who were not under strict rules of diet and sanitation.

Concerning the covering of hair, for example, we do not cover our hairs or dress like the women the bible was referring to. If we really want to do according to those passages, we would dress like muslim women.

That Deutronomy law about trousers was given to emphasize distinction between men and women. It didn't specify which kind of clothes, just what pertains to men and women. Who now decides what pertains to men? I believe that this refers to tranvestites.

There are soooo many laws from exodus to deuteronomy that we don't practice. i personally believe that in Nigeria, men just pick on anything that would further cause women to be subservient. They want to prevent anything that can cause women to feel equal. Just 6 verses after this verse, God warns against wearing clothes with mixed materials. That verse (11) is even clearer than 5, as He gives example of wool and silk. We pretend not to notice that. He also says we shouldnt eat certain animals, many of which ppl eat nowadays e.g. catfish. No one preaches against that. He said the poor should have ALL the crops grown every 7th year; all debtors should be forgiven every 7th year; slaves should be released on the 7th year; the Levites (pastors) should have all the regular tithes; the tithe on the increase on ur salary, seed etc. should be used to meet the expenses of gatherings, meetings; every 3 years, the tithe of that year - 3rd year- should be given to widows, strangers, fatherless and levites. None of these laws are being kept. Why all the noise about trousers?

Somehow, I just don't see Tinubu as the man. He might be ok in the National Assembly, but not the man in charge. He doesnt' seem to have the ideas that would move the economy forward. I can't see that Lagos has changed much since his coming to power, except contributions of the private sector. i believe Lagos should lead development in this country. I not as educated as he is, and don't have all the information about the situation on ground like he does, but I believe he can make money for the state through a sanitisation programme. Lagos is TOO dirty.

i agree he's done free medical programs, renovated schools etc. however, i'm not sure these alone can boost the economy. most of the governors seem to be interested in programs that would solve some of the ppl's immediate needs (like free medical care), but don't bother, except withroads, about things that would keep the economy going. Tinubu's campaign (and many others too) in 2003 couldn't mention many particular landmark projects, it was mostly vague stuff like - Jigi Bola, good roads, good health, better education etc. What we need now is someone with ideas, like i read in the papers about someone who wants to be Delta state governor who would like to establish a factory that manufactures tractors in the state.

Seun:
I hate David. If you study his life without rose-colored glasses, you will be disgusted. He was no better than a modern day militia leader, a murderous man with no respect for human life, yet he is considered as a hero.

This is why I love David so much. I can't really connect with Joseph because he was pictured as a near-sinless person. David committed some of the worst sins ever, I can connect much better with that. The best part of it all was he became a man after God's heart. That gives me hope. By God's standards, no one is perfect not even the biggest pastor or pope. He equates rebellion with witchcraft and groups lying and gossiping with murder. We all are guilty and it is the same atonement He offers to all of us, regardless of whatever our sins may be. One of the hardest things for us christians to grasp is that God would accept us with all our impurities. David helps us understand that better. I want to be like David.

nuru:
This is the Truth that God sent Muhammad to come and redirect people of the world towards.

That is why it is not Mohammedanism. It is the religion of Truth.

Jesus warned against any prophet that would come after Him preaching another gospel. He said He is the Truth, He is the Son of God, He came to die to reconcile men with God. Mohammed didn't say this, he actually said the contrary.

nuru:
Have you ever seen a greater gathering of mankind from the greatest number of towns and villages in the same spot at the same time, saying the same thing and doing common things together. Have you ever considered a path that ensures the king and the servant stand shoulder to shoulder several times in a day.

Have you ever consider a path that says you are not a believer until you love for your neighbor what you love for yourself and at the same time urge you to stand firm in face of tyranny and confront mischief headlong.

Have you ever wondered on the beautiful way the Quran is recited unadulterated for fourteen centuries. Don't you think you are missing something in your life by not clearly following Jesus and the Prophets. Look beyond you, look at the prophecies in the Quran being fulfilled in your age. Look at the benevolence of Muhammad, the greatest human being to ever walk the surface of the earth. A president, a Prophet, a family man , a businessman. a doctor, in fact every good attribute rolled into one.

Actually, Islamic countries are some of the poorest countries in the world. The rich ones, with oil, have some of the widest gaps between the rich and the poor. It doesn't mean much standing beside a rich man to pray, or even eating from his table at certain times a year, when you can't afford the luxuries he can all year long. (all religions and even sports bring rich and poor together) Plus, Jesus was obviously not concerned with the number of followers, He was more interested in the quality of their followership. That churches now glorify themselves in numbers is an aberration.

The way Islam is being practiced today makes this love you're talking about hard to understand. It seems very conditional. Muslims round the world kill adherents of other religions, and even their own brothers who leave Islam. Iran is currently saying that Israel would be wiped off the map. What happens to all the women and kids there?

Also, just as you guys claim the bible has been adulterated, we can't be sure the Koran hasn't been adulterated too. Not that it really matters to christians though.

nuru:
Have you read the Quran before. Will you take up my challenge and discover for yourself the practical truth of existence and Fountain of Wisdom.

It is shame that in this age of information, some people would remain without approaching the Quran themselves but would rather harp on prejudice to discuss the truth of life.

I admit that I've not read the Koran before. I believe all the inspiration I need is in the bible and that the Koran, or any other religious book, should be read for academic reasons only but I've not had to do any theological studies. Since I've not read the Koran, I can't claim to know anything about Islam, except what I've observed. Thus, rather than "harp on prejudice", I base my discussions/arguments on the "truth of life" on the bible.

Nuru,

there is no way anyone can claim to be a christian and not believe the passage you referred to, yes, we believe there is only ONE God. However, this same Jesus we worship said, that God can be approached ONLY through Him. We are to pray IN His name to God. The main difference between Islam and Christianity is the denial of Jesus' divinity by Islam. The divinity of Christ is one of the fundamental beliefs of christianity. Jesus equated Himself with God, didn't regard Himself as a prophet. The fact remains that these two religions are different, since Christianity isn't based only on the fact that there is one God, but that Jesus is the Son of this God, a part of the Trinity, and the ONLY access to this God.

BTW, I can't imagine how muslims can claim to be Jesus' true followers and hate the Jews (His own people). The Jews are not christians, and are known to persecute christians, but it is a common practice in christianity to pray for them and for the peace of Jerusalem. We know they mean a lot to God and play an important role in His plans for the future of this world/eternity. This is probably part of why America is very involved in anything concerning Israel.

It surprises me when I see muslims quote the bible; i wonder if they teach biblical studies (or whatever) in mosques or Islamic schools. I've never even touched a Koran though I saw one recently. I dont know of any christian who reads Korans, except for academic (theological) reasons. It's even more surprising that muslims, at least on nairaland, try to show that the Koran and bible are in agreement. Even funnier, is how they love to say they are the true followers of Jesus (as if that's not what the word 'christian' means). I wonder why they wont be called christians if they are the true followers of Christ. Plus, if you agree that this "prophet" never sinned, why do u call Mohammed, who sinned, the greatest prophet?

BENDELITE!!!

I'm Itsekiri and Bini

If you mean David and Joseph in the bible. They were both leaders and achievers. David is my favourite bible character (after Jesus, of course). It's easier to connect with him than with many other bible characters, including Joseph.

Yes you can but you must be able to give God some quality time.

Paul made tents to support himself, during his mission trips so he didn't have to bother the ppl he went to minister to.

Considering the meagre salary of pastors in Nigeria, i believe it is best to find a secular job that gives you enough time to pastor a church so that you would not be tempted to steal church money.

considering differences in male and female clothing in different cultures and eras, I believe that passage is referring to transvestites.

Besides the trousers that women wear are designed for women, so they aren't men's clothing.

Reforming a religion, at least christianity, would change its identity and then it wouldn't be the religion anymore. Maybe what we need is to follow the precepts laid down by the founders of these religions better and more closely.


Freedom to, or not to, believe in whatever God is important. People should not be forced into serving God.

ono:
I'm not surprised, I know Lady GL will come to the rescue and wield the magic wand and everything will be alright.

Madam, you too much. God bless.

But I didn't get that story you described up there very well.

I don't know, he might have. I went away when I heard him mention "sharia".


I dont believe he has any other plan except to make Nigeria a muslim state. it's a good thing that he can't win.

I got tired of the name my parents gave me so I gave myself "God's Love". I've heard of someone called that.

it's ok, i understand,

true. like Gov. Yerima of Zamfara who was shown on tv yesterday promising the heaven and earth he's not been able to provide Zamfarans in 8 years.