₦airaland Forum

Enigma:
And you believed the pastor?? Which "god" told him that?

your point being?,

bawomolo:
is daddy doubling as a pyschic now?

your point bein,

KunleOshob:
If Pasor Adeboye actually said that, then itwould be a big time indictment on himself as the head of the church and the church itself. It means they are running a failed project and NOT leading people to salvation as some of us have always suspected despite all the billions they collect in tithes and offerings every month.

no its not,it simply means no human being is infallible,and also that salvation is to be worked upon till our last dying breath.the millions of muslim youths who have converted to xtianity is a testament to what those billions have done.
the regeneration of christianity is also a testament,my family anglican church presently in ikeja lagos normally seats at least 1500 but the most you will get on a given sunday is 250 people and no youths a large poercentage of these youths attend the various pentecostal churches wold you rather have them converting to islam or hanging out on street corners,snatching bags e.t.c

go to a christ embassy chgurch and see how the youths some as young as 12 organise themselves into little independent cells of like 8 and operate a mini chuirch evangelising and fellowshipping,while some other religions are organising terrorist cells and you dont think that is a justification for these billions?

Zikkyy:
This is serious if true it means no soul have be won after all this time. What was the collections (money) for winning souls used for.

how r bout all these millions of souls y6ou see thronging the lagos ibadan expressway every month??

Devonian:
What an absolute display of IGNORANCE! Salvation is personal and pastors presumably knowing the truth should be left alone with God, even whilst continuing to perpetuate evil.

specifically what evil have this particular pastor perpetuated?if you cant tell me this i hope you will poermit me to return the tag of ignorance to yourself.

Devonian:
What logic, if any, does this display? This is precisely why Nigeria will never ever improve for the better if this attitude persists.

no sire,the reason why your country is not improving for the better is because of the corrupt leadership you have and which you have severally indulged without pro actively fighting to push them out,nigeria a country of 150 million people officially is supposed to be 505 christian and muslim officially hence telling a particular man of GOD or parish to shoulder the responsibility of 150 million people sire,is ignorant!

Devonian:
Where is the place of morality? If pastors can do whatever they like (such as embezzle money), what moral authority do they have to preach morality to others.

if you can show conclusive proof apart from media conjecture,innuendos and sensionalising news that pastor adeboye embezzeled then i will apologise and ascribe that notion of ignorance to myself seeing as i have been ignorant of this fact but if not then again i will put it to you that you as ignorant as well.

Devonian:
Your response can be logically implied to other spheres of life, and one may infer that it's OK for pastors to be sleeping around with women (married and unmarried) and even men, and "as long as they know the truth and they dont do it,its left with them and GOD" This is nothing but a silly and senseless thought.

that is your personal opinion,i might as well say that what you are inferring is illogical couldnt i?first of all i made a comment and then you take a line out of it and blowing it out of proportion to suit your ends.second if a pastor has done wrong then by all means highlight this and tell him even apostle paul reffered to this in the new testament.however i would not condemn any man of GOD or any individual like a gang of rabid felines based on a base4less media report without any substance maybe its because i dont suffer from the archaic jungle justice frame of mind but thats just me,however because i dont argue or debate blindly i ll allow you to marshall your points and simp[ly answer this question where is the proof that pastor adeboye embezzelled?

Devonian:
Wake up to reality, religion isn't stupidity. It isn't about condonning evil deeds. The reality is that Mr Adeboye should have sacked Akingbola, a thief, parading himself as a pastor.

i ll earnestly advice you as well to rid yourself of the pre modern sense of justice,even if there was proof and pastor adeboye was charged to court as an ordinary individual he has his own fundamental human rights which means amongst other things he is innocent untill proven guilty.how much more when you expect me to condemn a man of GOD based on newspaper reports,sensationalism and half truths.as for akingbola how is pastor adeboye to know he was fraudulent? is he an accountant or an auditor?
before ordaining a qualified individual as a pastor,is part of the requirements their personal financial details?
i remember everyone on this same forum not quite some days ago saying that a pastor has no right to interfere in relationship between two flocks,and you are here saying pastor adeboye should have known, you ppl make me laugh sometimes you never give up do you

uplawal:
@t.truth,e dey pain you,oh sorry,but you've said more than this to me now,

kai xtians are so temperamental,quick to judge

calm down if you dont want to give urself high blood pressure o uplawal,mohammad enjoyed himself and had all the women and food he wanted even king fahd or whatever the name of the supposed "holy land " is dey enjoy himself and u r here ranting and raving

uplawal:
@godslave,fool,shut up,u insult and curse ISLAM ure saying hes joking,you people will burn till eternity if u dnt change,or you wanna deny it that you dnt curse too,BEAST hiding in human flesh


i wish i can just get your number or know where u reside i will so much deal with you honestly cos am really boiling at the way u insult my God and religion,dnt ever pray to see me face to face o,or do u want us to meet in either somalia,timbuktu or libya and you continue your rants as usual,u will meet yourself in hellfire cos i for sure i wont be the one to start insults,and the devils(d fake holy spirit) in you will surely tempt you to open your mouth ,then you re gone,dnt make mouth here,lets book flight and go,IDIOT

my loveli sister uplawal calm down and drink some orange juice look at what islam has turned you to?
a calm and quiet christian lady has been turned to this boderline psychotic,islam fanatic like my religion enjoins if u curse me once i ll extend my cbristian love to you.
you know u cant do anything even if you know where i stay or else that your immigration status will be revoked and you ll find yourself in muritala mohammed then we will see if mohammad will take u back to london
by the way good news i am converting one naija guy in my flat to christianity,he is muslim lukman and going with me to church this week

this is hillarious,you search for the minutest pattern similar to some verses in the Quran and that is your miracles ??lol lol
when men of GOD heal the sick lay hands and cast out demons,many of you hear will call then charlatans because they are christians lool

uplawal:
@godslave,you are a very big fool for telling me not to slap back,or you want the person to break my jaw then will be left with no teeth at all, i can only not slap back if only the person is much older,but i would only allow the slap once but if he tries to feel like slapping again, i will not only slap her but beat her mercilessly and she would wish she had not tested her hand on me

with the bolded comment,does it mean that you have now grown worse from the time you were a christian?lol because a born again christian is not permitted under any circumstance to swear also if you will retaliate then you were never a born again christian to start with a sister in my church while doing door to door evangelism with others in manchester,a white lady while trying to shut the door in their face caught her finger in the door and she was bleeding,all through the ordeal as the woman was saying sorry she just told her not to worry and that she should come to church,the white lady is born again and broken and in her testimony she said the single reason for accepting was because if someone can slam a door on your fingers and you didnt retaliate she ll like to know more about that GOD, BESIDES A CHRISTIAN LOVE IS UNCONDITTIONAL AS THE BIBLE TELLS US, you have just shown the difference between islam and christianity my dearest sister uplawal

uplawal:
2,to be honest with you if is only by that i can be okay in uk as i do not carry paper from naija and in as much as am not born here nd wants to stay in uk i would lie if the need arise and not look like a dummy infront of immigration or in my papers,any reasonable person would do that,to let u know as well uncountable pastors did that you know,so dnt even go there.

there you go,it means you are not a true broken born again christian,even as a muslim if you truelly believe that your GOD is real and alive,he will vindicate you no matter how grave the situation i have seen a real life example of a man in east london parish of reedemed you can confirm if you want,he was prayed for and he went to east croydon with a letter and told them that he lied and came into the country illegaly from nigeria and he has no single legal papers at the end of the day they gave him an indefinite stay,so again you were never truelly born again

uplawal:
3,when i was a born again xtian i never drank alcohol,even though the occultic religion permits it(or do u wanna deny that)?i dnt like it and also i hate it cos i feel a good lady should not near alcohol.

if you can show me where the bible tells you to drink alcohol,if you were making reference to bro paul's advice to bro timothy then it shows you never understood the bible the verse said to use it because of his weak stomach or disposition,go and research into the olden days britain where you are when someone faints or feeling poorly they use wine or whisky e.t.c there was no alternative,now there is an alternative including smelling salts e.t.c

uplawal:
4,i hate to lie, i find it disgusting really,evenpeople knows me for that.

well you just contradicted yourself here sister uplawal loooool you just said you would lie on your application remember the bible said if you even think about having sex with a woman you have already committed adultery,so by the act of accepting to do it you have done it already second last year when i asked you on this forum you said you had a boyfriend who was a good muslim bla bla, how come you r now saying you didnt have a boyfriend

uplawal:
5,i dnt have boyfriend, i was single,no fornication with any guy even till now cos am not ,married and i find it to be realy bad before God

well who was the boyfriend you were saying you had last year then?you were either lieing if you have always been single or committing fornication which is it??

uplawal:
@godslave,i attend not only sunday service,infact i was a prayer warrior (personally) though not in the prayer (warrior group)in church,but i attend midweek services tuesdays and wednesday,vigils every friday(as in heavy ones/prophetic ones, even though is wrong way of worshipping GodAlmighty)

the bible says not everyone who calls my name or does miracles in my name will enter into the kingdom of GOD even though you have failed on this note as well although i agree you were fairly consistent IF you were telling the truth

uplawal:
6,i dnt wear revealing clothes,but its still can not and never be compared to our hijab clothing,hope u know that?

i dont know that because i have seen several hija wearing ladies/girls who committ more fornication than prostitutes,i live not far from the university community and i see enough and know enough of them asians blacks e.t.c clothing as a born again christian is just a little part of it compared to the importance you give the hijab as a religious symbol

uplawal:
7,i dnt hate people but am sure u cant be silent when your pastors are casting and binding?when pray by saying holyghostfire burn,die,household enemies die,meet your destruction?cos me i dey like to bind even till now sef but in the name of Allah,and not jesus,thats during supplication though.

i am not silent but i dont tell my own enemies to die or burn because first you cannot kill them you can only cse them away,even jesus did not tell the demons to die he sent them out as for hatred you have exhibited serious hatred on this forum,so it follows that you became hate filled when you turned muslim yes or no?

uplawal:
8, i dnt even use swear words,cos i dnt grow up by it from my parent,"oloshi to kere ju", i dnt say it, i even caution people that says it,

i dont believe you at all,do you want me to show you the number of comments where you have abused or cursed people on this forum??now show me where i as a born again christian has ever cursed anyone??im waiting,

uplawal:
9, Mr godslave from every indication i think i fulfiled a born again critaria,and am more fulfilled in so many vast ways than even when i was a xtian sef,ISLAM brushes someone up in every aspect of life, and i am bestest in person with God and those around me inshaAllah now,

my dear sister uplawal you were a fiarly good christian but you were never a born again,and i have proven that by the comments showing that you never was even though you though you were what i have seen you exhibit is a high level of hatered,you have been cursing and swearing at people on here and have even showed support fro suicide bombing so if this is the new you,then you have to agree with me that you have grown worse than when you were a muslim,if your own allah can allow you to curse and abuse others for his sake then you need to check your religion again, be saved before its too late my dear sister

uplawal:
ALLAH'S HUMBLE SLAVE(NIHMOTALLAHI)

well,maybe you are a slave to your allah i am a son to my own father,jesus christ even reffered to me as his brother and one of the sons of BABA GOD

obviously he was only joking you can see that by the laughing faces unless ou have a pre concieved prejudice

GODSON2009:
i was realli curious so my curiousity got the better of me and being a fair minded individual i decided to post the rebuttal on here while i am not a great bible scholar here is my own little retort on the rebuttal

Dr. Robert Morey (writes):

Muslims worship a god by the name of Allah. They also give him ninety nine other names. The question that naturally arises is who or what is this Allah? Where did the Muslims derive their ideas of Allah’s nature and attributes?

In his works, Dr. Robert Morey - a Christian missionary, maintains having conducted a comprehensive research and made exhaustive study on the subject "Allah of Islam". The author alleges that the Muslims give ninety nine "other names" to Allah. It is indeed strange that a learned scholar who has written books and articles on the subject of "Allah" does not even know that these "ninety nine" are not the "other names" of Allah, but they are His attributes! In the event that the author is quite aware of the true facts and yet has made this remark then one can only guess that the author's intentions, from the outset, are not to deal with the facts but to present distorted views for Allah.

Historical Source of Islam

Historians, linguists, and archeologists have dug into this question for over a century. Various archeological digs in Arabia and throughout the Middle East have uncovered the answer: Islam is a modern version of the ancient fertility religion of the moon god. Once this is grasped, the rise and history of Islam becomes clear.

The Arab conquests were made possible because the central powers in the Middle East had exhausted themselves in wars against each other. They were not able to fight off wave after wave of Arab armies which subdued entire nations with merciless slaughter, despoil and plunder.

Conquering Armies

The Arabs destroyed some of the wonders of the ancient world such as the world famous library in Alexandria, Egypt. They destroyed many ancient churches and synagogues. Anthropologists have recorded how the Arabs destroyed the cultural heritage of any nation which fell under their sword.

One may wonder why the author has not stayed on the course? Why has he abruptly started painting pictures of "The Arab Conquests & The Conquering Armies" with a black paint brush? It seems that Dr. Morey is totally ignorant of, beside other true historical facts, of the atrocities committed during the Seven Christian Crusaders inaugurated by Pope Urban II and his successors. I wish Dr. Morey would rather stay on the subject and present specific details concerning the "Muslims beliefs for Allah" and comparing them with the so called beliefs of the "ancient fertile religion of the moon-god".

Who were these Arabs? They obviously were not Christians because they destroyed churches and murdered priests wherever they went. Obviously, they were not Jews because they persecuted Jews without pity. This is seen today in their hatred of Israel and the many wars and acts of terrorism waged against Jews throughout the world.

If the Arab hordes which swept over the ancient world were not Christians or Jews, then what were they? They were pagans who worshipped a pagan god called Allah and followed pagan rites
which were practised in Arabia long before the religion of Islam evolved.

Dr. Robert Morey, who has written texts on the subject of how to debate with the opponents, wants his readers to embrace his innovated theory that if the "Arab Army" was not composed of Jews or Christians then it had to be of "the Pagans, worshipping a pagan god". The fact is; the Islamic Civilization was flourishing and the so called European Civilization and the Renaissance had not yet emerged, when the Islamic Army was conquering the parts of Europe and North Africa, .

Islam Denies the Trinity

These facts of history reveal that Islam does not worship the same God worshipped by Christians. Why? Christians worship one God in three persons: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. But Islam denies the Holy Trinity and worships a different deity called Allah who is not a Father and who has no son.

Since the religion found in the Bible teaches the Trinity, then it does not take a Ph.D. to see that Islam did not come from the Bible. Thus it is not the religion of the biblical prophets, apostles or Jesus.

The untainted "Unity of God", as professed by Islam and Judaism, has
hundred percent "explicit" endorsement in the Old Testament (Ex. 20:3; Is. 45:21) and also in the New Testament (Jn. 17:3).

well if the author wasnt subjective he would have read this part of the bible
We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

34Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'[e]? 35If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'? 37Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. 38But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that[b] the Father is in me, and I in the Father." [/b]
including several other scriptures,but as usual muslims will pick a random verse out of context as long as it suits their nefarious purpose

GODSON2009:
What is not endorsed by the Holy Bible is the "Doctrine of Trinity". Today, it is no secret that it was the Pagan Emperor Constantine who called the Council of Nicaea in his Imperial Roman Palace and approved the observance of Easter Sunday and the Doctrine of "co-equality", "co-eternity" and "consubstantiality" (homoousious) of Jesus with his Father. Constantine was declared "baptized" on his death bed when water was poured on his forehead in 337 A.D. Imagine a Christian theologian, accusing Islam of denying Trinity, does not even know the roots of Trinity! Why should the religion established by the Almighty Allah Himself should endorse a theory that was promulgated by a Pagan Emperor? The proper question is; should the Christians be following a Pagan Emperor or the righteous Christ Jesus who even refused to be called "good", let alone "god-head" (Mk. 10:18)?

this man has been reading too many unsubstantiated stories,im sure he has a copy of da vinci code and blood line as his bonafide concrete proof of the above they are quick to deny hadiths as untenable or credible but will readily take a random proclamation without any literary backing as concrete proof where is the proof that the council of nicea conclusively true apart from the same old same old??
Pagan Origins

GODSON2009:
Islam's origins have been traced back by scholars to the ancient fertility religion of the worship of the moon god which was always the dominant religion of Arabia. The moon god was worshipped by praying toward Mecca several times a day, making an annual pilgrimage to the Kabah which was a temple of the moon god, running around the Kabah seven times, caressing an idol of a black stone set in the wall of the Kabah, running between two hills, making animal sacrifices, gathering on Fridays for prayers, giving alms to the poor, etc, These were pagan rites practised by the Arabs long before Muhammad was born.

The author seems to be very good at making High Hamburgers without any Beef! Dr. Morey: Where is the "BEEF"? It is easy to make wild accusations without providing credible evidences and documents.

which you are guilty of as well,in the abscense of proof,why not look at supporting evidence e.g bowing down to an image kaaba,using the moon to determine their festivals,slaughtering rams and then bastardizing isaac's name as justification for their pagan sacrifice e.t.c

GODSON2009:
The Crescent Moon

What religion today practices the pagan rites of the moon god? Islam! This explains why the crescent moon is the symbol of Islam. It is placed on top of mosques and minarets and displayed on hats, flags, rugs, amulets and even jewellery. Every time you see the Muslim symbol of a crescent moon, you are seeing the ancient symbol of the moon god.

The Crescent Moon heralds the beginning of the new month and the new year. During the period of Islamic Empire, the crescent moon was adopted as a state emblem. It had nothing to do with religious beliefs. Today, Eagle is the popular state emblem in U.S.A. Does that emblem represent the religious beliefs of the citizens of U.S.A.?

The next time when Dr. Morey happens to see an Easter Egg he should think of Eostre, an ancient Anglo-Saxon goddess and the pagan rituals. Below is an excerpt from Compton's Interactive Encyclopedia Deluxe Copyright © 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997 The Learning Company, Inc.:

first off we dont have an easter egg on all churches in the whole world so thats immaterial second this explanation is not only open ended but simplifying a serious allegation,conclusive proof to disprove the man's serious allegation

GODSON2009:
"Many Easter customs come from the Old World. The white lily, the symbol of the resurrection, is the special Easter flower. Rabbits and colored eggs have come from pagan antiquity as symbols of new life. Easter Monday egg rolling, a custom of European origin, has become a tradition on the lawn of the White House in Washington, D.C. , The name Easter comes from Eostre, an ancient Anglo-Saxon goddess, originally of the dawn. In pagan times an annual spring festival was held in her honour. Some Easter customs have come from this and other pre-Christian spring festivals."

are you justifying your using the symbol of the moon and star on your mosque by this??so in other words seems the man is right in his assertions,its like obasanjo calling atiku corrupt,while he didnt deny atiku too brought out photiocopy of a cheque saying obasanjo too is corrupt if you need christians to defend their doctrines and customs then open another thread for that which they will adequately as we have nothing to hide or be ashamed of

GODSON2009:
Denial Not a Refuge

Does the average Muslim know that he is worshipping a moon god? No. Does he know why the crescent moon symbol sits on top of his mosque? No. Is he shocked and perhaps angered at these facts of history? Yes. But can mere denial or angry threats refute the fact that Islam is nothing more than a modern version of the ancient religion of the moon god Allah? No. The average Muslim has been kept in the dark by the Mullahs and Imams who would lose their power if the truth ever got
out.

An "average Muslim", after reading the above would most probably quote you the following two verses from the Holy Qur'an. These two verses are enough to knock out the brain of your FALSEHOOD.

"Among His Signs are the Night and the Day and the Sun and Moon. Prostrate (adore) not to the Sun and the Moon but prostrate to Allah, Who created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve." Holy Qur'an 41:37
"Nay We hurl the Truth against falsehood and it knocks out its brain and behold falsehood doth perish! Ah! woe be to you for the (false) things ye ascribe (to Us).
Holy Qur'an 21:18

i disagree because this is not the first time mohammad has said something in the quran and then turned round to contradict himself so why should i take this as a given??

GODSON2009:
Islam is the fastest growing religion of our era. Today, more Christians are turning to Islam then before.

i disagree with you sire,maybe you have not heard of a country called nigeria the most populous african country where it used to be a muslim majority now more muslims are converting to christianity which can be seen in the number of pentecostal churches popping up everyday same for other parts of africa including noth africa which is pre dominantly muslim secondly the fact that you muslims because of the multiple wives breed children like rats is the only saving grace you have but still yet the more you pop these children into the world we will keep converting them to christianity

GODSON2009:
Who should know it better than Dr. Morey who has written a book on The Islamic Invasion. He writes; "This revealing book presents the truth about this rapidly spreading religion, ".

i dont know dr morley's religious persuation,but im sure he is not pentecostal he might be using the statistics of ther orthodox anglican or catholic churches to compare with islam rather than pentecostal as well as orthodox so i respectfully disagree with his assertions which i believe is flawed

GODSON2009:
Are you telling your readers that the new converts to Islam, especially the Christians, are so much impressed and attracted by the "modern version of the ancient pagan religion" that they are trading their Christianity and Trinity for a "moon-god"? The Truth is; Prophet Muhammad (the Spirit of Truth), has "guided" the Islamic Ummah (Islamic Brotherhood) "into all the Truth", as it was prophesied nearly 600 years before his birth, by Jesus Christ. (Please read John 16:13 and keep reading further, you will be amazed).
Worship the True God

again na by force to validate your fake religion with our bible,i thank GOD that at least this islamic scholar recognises the new testament maybe because he found another random passage to suit his purpose albeit erroneous interpretation the man and his fello muslims should look at verse 16,does it mean that mohammad is coming back again??
these verses is reffering to jesus christ and other parts of the bible both old and new testament validates that claim so if he is looking for a source to back up the validity of his fake mohammad he should look somewhere else and not outr bible e'g their book of confusion quran

GODSON2009:
Dear Muslim friend, instead of worshipping a false moon god called Allah, you should worship the God of the Patriarchs, prophets, and apostles. This one true God is the Father, the Son and the
Holy Spirit. Read the New Testament for it is the true Word of God.

Dear Truth Seekers: Please pickup a copy of the Holy Bible in Arabic and ask any of your Arabic speaking friend to read loudly the first page from the Old Testament. Keep counting how many times he reads the word "Allah"? I guarantee, it is at least half a dozen times. If "Allah" of the Holy Qur'an is the "moon-god", what is "Allah" of the Holy Bible? I hope Dr. Morey has an answer!!!

why should i look for an arabic bible when there is an easily understood version in every hotel room??lol we have nothing to hide but if muslims have a hidden agenda of printing fake arabic bibles then lets hear them out lol

GODSON2009:
A Christian reader responded to me, after reading the article on "moon-god" that the "Muslim Rulers" were so ruthless that they would not allow the circulation of any Bible in Arabic that would dare substitute the word "Allah" with any other word. I asked him; what about the copies that are being presently published and circulated from North America and Europe? Needless to mention, he did not respond.

maybe he didnt know that islamic scholars do not support the translation of the quran and have consistently maintained that it is not 100% correct

GODSON2009:
The Home Of The Research And Education Foundation should rather first undertake the job collecting copies of the "tainted" Arabic Bible from their fellow Christians and replacing them with copies that have no trace of "moon-god", before asking Muslims to clean their houses.

Finally, Jesus Christ and many of his disciples spoke Aramaic. In the Aramaic language the word for the Almighty God is ‘Allaha’ and the name of Jesus is 'Iessa'. There are records of Jesus praying in Aramaic to his God 'Allaha"

these muslims will go to any lenghts to use the bible to validate their fake and confusing religion which one is allaha and iessa again??lol
anyway i forgot obama's real name is obioma from nnewi south local govt in nigeria na by force!!!!

ronkeenuf:
If the Islam was designed after a religion of a pagan god, don't you think the highest in rank of all the gods of that period would have been preferred? i.e hubal who was referred to as "the god of gods and the most notable" Why would a sub god of hubal, one of the three goddesses be chosen. These propagator of 'moon god theory' have to change their attack weapon cos this one is weak. as if any other one could be effective

anyways, for a substantial reply to the OP, visit http://www.mostmerciful.com/moongod.htm

i was realli curious so my curiousity got the better of me and being a fair minded individual i decided to post the rebuttal on here while i am not a great bible scholar here is my own little retort on the rebuttal

Dr. Robert Morey (writes):

Muslims worship a god by the name of Allah. They also give him ninety nine other names. The question that naturally arises is who or what is this Allah? Where did the Muslims derive their ideas of Allah’s nature and attributes?

In his works, Dr. Robert Morey - a Christian missionary, maintains having conducted a comprehensive research and made exhaustive study on the subject "Allah of Islam". The author alleges that the Muslims give ninety nine "other names" to Allah. It is indeed strange that a learned scholar who has written books and articles on the subject of "Allah" does not even know that these "ninety nine" are not the "other names" of Allah, but they are His attributes! In the event that the author is quite aware of the true facts and yet has made this remark then one can only guess that the author's intentions, from the outset, are not to deal with the facts but to present distorted views for Allah.

Historical Source of Islam

Historians, linguists, and archeologists have dug into this question for over a century. Various archeological digs in Arabia and throughout the Middle East have uncovered the answer: Islam is a modern version of the ancient fertility religion of the moon god. Once this is grasped, the rise and history of Islam becomes clear.

The Arab conquests were made possible because the central powers in the Middle East had exhausted themselves in wars against each other. They were not able to fight off wave after wave of Arab armies which subdued entire nations with merciless slaughter, rape and plunder.

Conquering Armies

The Arabs destroyed some of the wonders of the ancient world such as the world famous library in Alexandria, Egypt. They destroyed many ancient churches and synagogues. Anthropologists have recorded how the Arabs destroyed the cultural heritage of any nation which fell under their sword.

One may wonder why the author has not stayed on the course? Why has he abruptly started painting pictures of "The Arab Conquests & The Conquering Armies" with a black paint brush? It seems that Dr. Morey is totally ignorant of, beside other true historical facts, of the atrocities committed during the Seven Christian Crusaders inaugurated by Pope Urban II and his successors. I wish Dr. Morey would rather stay on the subject and present specific details concerning the "Muslims beliefs for Allah" and comparing them with the so called beliefs of the "ancient fertile religion of the moon-god".

Who were these Arabs? They obviously were not Christians because they destroyed churches and murdered priests wherever they went. Obviously, they were not Jews because they persecuted Jews without pity. This is seen today in their hatred of Israel and the many wars and acts of terrorism waged against Jews throughout the world.

If the Arab hordes which swept over the ancient world were not Christians or Jews, then what were they? They were pagans who worshipped a pagan god called Allah and followed pagan rites
which were practised in Arabia long before the religion of Islam evolved.

Dr. Robert Morey, who has written texts on the subject of how to debate with the opponents, wants his readers to embrace his innovated theory that if the "Arab Army" was not composed of Jews or Christians then it had to be of "the Pagans, worshipping a pagan god". The fact is; the Islamic Civilization was flourishing and the so called European Civilization and the Renaissance had not yet emerged, when the Islamic Army was conquering the parts of Europe and North Africa, .

Islam Denies the Trinity

These facts of history reveal that Islam does not worship the same God worshipped by Christians. Why? Christians worship one God in three persons: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. But Islam denies the Holy Trinity and worships a different deity called Allah who is not a Father and who has no son.

Since the religion found in the Bible teaches the Trinity, then it does not take a Ph.D. to see that Islam did not come from the Bible. Thus it is not the religion of the biblical prophets, apostles or Jesus.

The untainted "Unity of God", as professed by Islam and Judaism, has
hundred percent "explicit" endorsement in the Old Testament (Ex. 20:3; Is. 45:21) and also in the New Testament (Jn. 17:3). What is not endorsed by the Holy Bible is the "Doctrine of Trinity". Today, it is no secret that it was the Pagan Emperor Constantine who called the Council of Nicaea in his Imperial Roman Palace and approved the observance of Easter Sunday and the Doctrine of "co-equality", "co-eternity" and "consubstantiality" (homoousious) of Jesus with his Father. Constantine was declared "baptized" on his death bed when water was poured on his forehead in 337 A.D. Imagine a Christian theologian, accusing Islam of denying Trinity, does not even know the roots of Trinity! Why should the religion established by the Almighty Allah Himself should endorse a theory that was promulgated by a Pagan Emperor? The proper question is; should the Christians be following a Pagan Emperor or the righteous Christ Jesus who even refused to be called "good", let alone "god-head" (Mk. 10:18)?

Pagan Origins

Islam's origins have been traced back by scholars to the ancient fertility religion of the worship of the moon god which was always the dominant religion of Arabia. The moon god was worshipped by praying toward Mecca several times a day, making an annual pilgrimage to the Kabah which was a temple of the moon god, running around the Kabah seven times, caressing an idol of a black stone set in the wall of the Kabah, running between two hills, making animal sacrifices, gathering on Fridays for prayers, giving alms to the poor, etc, These were pagan rites practised by the Arabs long before Muhammad was born.

The author seems to be very good at making High Hamburgers without any Beef! Dr. Morey: Where is the "BEEF"? It is easy to make wild accusations without providing credible evidences and documents.

The Crescent Moon

What religion today practices the pagan rites of the moon god? Islam! This explains why the crescent moon is the symbol of Islam. It is placed on top of mosques and minarets and displayed on hats, flags, rugs, amulets and even jewellery. Every time you see the Muslim symbol of a crescent moon, you are seeing the ancient symbol of the moon god.

The Crescent Moon heralds the beginning of the new month and the new year. During the period of Islamic Empire, the crescent moon was adopted as a state emblem. It had nothing to do with religious beliefs. Today, Eagle is the popular state emblem in U.S.A. Does that emblem represent the religious beliefs of the citizens of U.S.A.?

The next time when Dr. Morey happens to see an Easter Egg he should think of Eostre, an ancient Anglo-Saxon goddess and the pagan rituals. Below is an excerpt from Compton's Interactive Encyclopedia Deluxe Copyright © 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997 The Learning Company, Inc.:

"Many Easter customs come from the Old World. The white lily, the symbol of the resurrection, is the special Easter flower. Rabbits and colored eggs have come from pagan antiquity as symbols of new life. Easter Monday egg rolling, a custom of European origin, has become a tradition on the lawn of the White House in Washington, D.C. , The name Easter comes from Eostre, an ancient Anglo-Saxon goddess, originally of the dawn. In pagan times an annual spring festival was held in her honour. Some Easter customs have come from this and other pre-Christian spring festivals."

Denial Not a Refuge

Does the average Muslim know that he is worshipping a moon god? No. Does he know why the crescent moon symbol sits on top of his mosque? No. Is he shocked and perhaps angered at these facts of history? Yes. But can mere denial or angry threats refute the fact that Islam is nothing more than a modern version of the ancient religion of the moon god Allah? No. The average Muslim has been kept in the dark by the Mullahs and Imams who would lose their power if the truth ever got
out.

An "average Muslim", after reading the above would most probably quote you the following two verses from the Holy Qur'an. These two verses are enough to knock out the brain of your FALSEHOOD.

"Among His Signs are the Night and the Day and the Sun and Moon. Prostrate (adore) not to the Sun and the Moon but prostrate to Allah, Who created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve." Holy Qur'an 41:37
"Nay We hurl the Truth against falsehood and it knocks out its brain and behold falsehood doth perish! Ah! woe be to you for the (false) things ye ascribe (to Us).
Holy Qur'an 21:18

Islam is the fastest growing religion of our era. Today, more Christians are turning to Islam then before. Who should know it better than Dr. Morey who has written a book on The Islamic Invasion. He writes; "This revealing book presents the truth about this rapidly spreading religion, ". Are you telling your readers that the new converts to Islam, especially the Christians, are so much impressed and attracted by the "modern version of the ancient pagan religion" that they are trading their Christianity and Trinity for a "moon-god"? The Truth is; Prophet Muhammad (the Spirit of Truth), has "guided" the Islamic Ummah (Islamic Brotherhood) "into all the Truth", as it was prophesied nearly 600 years before his birth, by Jesus Christ. (Please read John 16:13 and keep reading further, you will be amazed).
Worship the True God

Dear Muslim friend, instead of worshipping a false moon god called Allah, you should worship the God of the Patriarchs, prophets, and apostles. This one true God is the Father, the Son and the
Holy Spirit. Read the New Testament for it is the true Word of God.

Dear Truth Seekers: Please pickup a copy of the Holy Bible in Arabic and ask any of your Arabic speaking friend to read loudly the first page from the Old Testament. Keep counting how many times he reads the word "Allah"? I guarantee, it is at least half a dozen times. If "Allah" of the Holy Qur'an is the "moon-god", what is "Allah" of the Holy Bible? I hope Dr. Morey has an answer!!!

A Christian reader responded to me, after reading the article on "moon-god" that the "Muslim Rulers" were so ruthless that they would not allow the circulation of any Bible in Arabic that would dare substitute the word "Allah" with any other word. I asked him; what about the copies that are being presently published and circulated from North America and Europe? Needless to mention, he did not respond.

The Home Of The Research And Education Foundation should rather first undertake the job collecting copies of the "tainted" Arabic Bible from their fellow Christians and replacing them with copies that have no trace of "moon-god", before asking Muslims to clean their houses.

Finally, Jesus Christ and many of his disciples spoke Aramaic. In the Aramaic language the word for the Almighty God is ‘Allaha’ and the name of Jesus is 'Iessa'. There are records of Jesus praying in Aramaic to his God 'Allaha"

littleb:
Where you and your Morey writers got the story from? Is the same Allah Abaraham, Moses and Jesus worshiped. There is no historical reference to back your claim.

im sorry but my own biblical abraham did not worship the moon,neither did my own biblical moses nor jesus christ you cant just simplify everything with a flippant comment,

Abuzola:
It seems your craziness is without limit, where were u when the Prophet forbade the worship of idol, sun and the moon

you have to conclusively prove the article wrong.
abuzola will bear me witness that i have continually and consistently asked moslems to defend the presence of the minarets on their mosques but they have replied with insults

Abuzola:
It seems your craziness is without limit, where were u when the Prophet forbade the worship of idol, sun and the moon

the fact that he fobade it doesnt matter it is not your prophet's first time of contradicting himself.
he first told you to make friends with people of the book,jews e.t.c no compulsion in islam later he turned around and told you to kill and slay them whereever you find them.

he is the one who told you to treat your women good and then turned round to tell you to cane them if they misbehaved.

he supported the worship of the pagan gods in the satanic verses before turning round to contradict himself again

babs787:
@Woleb

Its only a fool that would believe Robert A. Morey. His lies without facts have been exposed times without number through series of debate by Islamic scholars. I dont even have time to debunk all those lies cos they are very glaring.

well,you lot are yet to post any conclusive rebuttal to this article yet,whenever you come up with a precept upon precept chronological explanation rebutting every one of the assertions he has written in his article,then i will publicly apologise to all the muslims on here that i a christian am a fool for believing the man's article hows that?

ronkeenuf:
If the Islam was designed after a religion of a pagan god, don't you think the highest in rank of all the gods of that period would have been preferred? i.e hubal who was referred to as "the god of gods and the most notable" Why would a sub god of hubal, one of the three goddesses be chosen. These propagator of 'moon god theory' have to change their attack weapon cos this one is weak. as if any other one could be effective

anyways, for a substantial reply to the OP, visit http://www.mostmerciful.com/moongod.htm

it doesnt matter in the satanic verse mohammad chose to comment not on the highest pagan god of that time compared to the others in existence

Mikaela:
HAHA ! Well Elton John's got the gay radar. If he thinks jesus was gay, then he probably was. LOL !

well,there would have been a fair chance of agreeing with you if jesus christ was actually alive physically and walking around today unless you are saying or elton john is saying he lived 2000 years ago to see jesus christ's mannaresms e.t.c
would you agree you were agy if elton john says so?
[quote author=Jenna link=topic=403084.msg5571653#msg5571653 date=1266958934]Hmmm! So much for love your neighbor eh, son!! Is that a Christian attack I see here!! Lmao!! Whatever, Elton is entitled to his opinion and beliefs. It wouldn't twist my religion or belief either way if Jesus was gay thats the difference between you and I. You hate in Jesus name but my Jesus is love, not finger pointing at someone weaknesses. Stay blessed godson! [/quote]its not a christian attack,unless you can pull me out on any of my comments that was an outright lie?
is elton john's sexuality not perverse?
was he not on a nervous breakdown?
when last did you hear of him career wise?
when last did he release a single or album?even the late michael jackson was more relevant career wise before his unfortunate demise
in view of his unprovoked ranting against reporters,some unguarded comments against people e.g against madonna e.t.c isnt that the actions of an unbalanced individual?
[quote author=Jenna link=topic=403084.msg5571665#msg5571665 date=1266959062]Love this!! Too funny!! It's like looking in the mirror at what else I would say about it!! Peace and love!![/quote]who is being subjective now?

from my understanding of the comments posted already,it seems majority generally agree that

1.afghan women are suffering as a result of gender inequality,their predominant religion islam re iterating and justifying this
2.quranic verses have been severally posted to justify this fact
3.the jews dont run the media i the middle east and africa including al jazeera and a number of news portalks who are either subjective in favour of muslims or totally objective in their news coverage.
4.the muslim especially males on here,rather than being offensive and muddying up the discourse by intentionally trying to confuse issues should own up to the crass gender inequality which is prominent and can be seen all over the lenght and breadth of the quran and take pro active steps in doing their bit to help the women of afghanistan by constructively positive comments.

even if they disagree with the quranic verses published on here already,the fact that women are permanently sectioned to the back and the men while praying is a pertinent fact.

the fact that the woman more or less eats the left over of not only her husband but the menfolk is another pointer.
the fact that the male son in the order of heirachy is before his mother
these and several other reasons is more than enough to male the muslims wake up and smell thew proverbial cofee that their religion is sexist and sort of belongs in the dark ages,they either start taking steps to bring it to the 21st century or face a bleak future where only a few men will be left in their fold or the religion will be on the way to permanent exinction

[quote author=t.truth link=topic=361701.msg5570763#msg5570763 date=1266948384]Are Muslims not wicked?? What I am saying is the fact. The fact is around for all to see. Can't you see the merciless slaughtering, butchering and slaying that are constantly being carried out by the slaves of allah or by the Jihadists.[/quote]dont mind them,its one of the mujahideens hiding under a different screenie

uplawal:
laughing hard

did you fullfill the five points i laid out when u were a christian and are you fulfilling them now that you are a muslim??
if the answers to both is no then you need to rea sses your reasons for being a muslim

uplawal:
what is your term of born again mr godslave?

being born again means you will forsake "every single vice" genuinely with a conviction to serve GOD come rain or shine,few questions when you were a christian,what would your reaction be

1.if i walked up to ypu and gave you a hot slap,would you retaliate or abuse me or simply walk away?
2.if you had to include a little lie in your home office application or employment application e.t.c will you do so or refuse to irrespective of whatever the conscequences might be?
3.when you were a christian,you never drank alcohol at all,intentionally lied,had any boyfriend attended not only sunday services but the mid week services,will you under any circumstances wear short or tight skirts,sleeveless tops or tops that ll show your cleavage curves e.t.c.
4.no negative word or phrase escaped your mouth like swearing,or sexually suggestive e.t.c phrases either in jest or seriously
5.loved your friends and family but loved your enemies even more and people who hate you, like the bible says what is the point of loving those who love you,the real test of a christian is loving those who hate you unconditionally

now look at those five points and then determine if you fulfilled them when you were a christian then you r born again and then ask yourself as a muslim if you fullfill these five points

@poster
im suprised you find anything elton john says seriously apart from his perverse sexual orientation,he has been publicly known to have been on the verge of a nervous psychological breakdown several times,including the time he was raving and ranting at reporters at the airport e.t.c
so are you really expecting any christian to seriously now comment on elton john's statement,an old man who is not mentally balanced and boderline certified,who's career is seriously fading off into the abyss of z list celebs and in desperation looking for an headline grabbing comment to push him back into prominence,

uplawal:
to godslave,every reverts is not and never a christian, i pity u,dey dere dey smegbe

no not every convert because i dont know every single one of them,but pls i challenge anyone to show me a born again and broken christian who converted to islam.
when you were a christian,were you ever properly born agaiun and broken?
same as the writer of this article who has confessed to being a sunday sunday righteous christian

Deen4me:
Salam Alaikum ,

I came across this interesting write up , I wanted to share it .

There are some few things to learn from it.


By Afrah Alshaibani

May 2, 1996. Ever since I can remember, my family attended a non-denominational conservative Christian church (Church of Christ). I grew up in the church, taught bible school and sang in the choir. As a young teenager I began asking questions (as I think everyone does at one point in their lives): Why was I a member of the Church of Christ and not say Lutheran, Catholic or Methodist? If various churches are teaching conflicting doctrine, how do we know which one is right? Are they all right? Do 'all paths lead to God' as I had heard some say? Others say that as long as you are a good person it doesn't matter what you believe - is that true?

im sorry sister,but YOU WERE NEVER A CHRISTIAN TO START WITH"YOU WERE A "XTIAN" OR A RIGHTEOUS CHRISTIAN!
my bible tells me that your perceived righteousness is like a filthy rag before the lord also the bible continues that except you are born again,you will not enter the kingdom of GOD which you clearly were not,so how can you claim to be a christian

Deen4me:
After some soul searching I decided that I did believe that there was an ultimate truth and in an attempt to find that truth I began a comparison study of various churches. I decided that I believed in the Bible and would join the church that best followed the Bible. After a lengthy study, I decided to stay with the Church of Christ, satisfied that its doctrines were biblically sound (unaware at this stage that there could be various interpretations of the Bible).

same as there are various interpretations of the QURAN,in addittion there are several hadiths several sects e.t.c

Deen4me:
I spent a year at Michigan Christian College, a small college affiliated with the Churches of Christ, but was not challenged academically and so transferred to Western Michigan University. Having applied late for student housing, I was placed in the international dorm. Although my roommate was American, I felt surrounded by strange people from strange places. It was in fact my first real experience with cultural diversity and it scared me (having been raised in a white, middle class, Christian community). I wanted to change dorms but there wasn't anything available. I did really like my roommate and decided to stick out the semester.

My roommate became very involved in the dorm activities and got to know most everyone in the dorm. I however performed with the marching band and spent most of my time with band people. Marching season soon ended and finding myself with time on my hands, I joined my roommate on her adventures around the dorm. It turned out to be a wonderful, fascinating experience! There were a large number of Arab men living in the dorm. They were charming, handsome, and a lot of fun to be around. My roommate started dating one of them and we ended up spending most of our time with the Arabs. I guess I knew they were Muslims (although very few of them were practicing). We never really discussed religion, we were just having fun.

this part of the narrative have clearly shown that the physical carnal attractions actually informed tyour love for islam,a white girl from a middle class background,experiencing an exotic foreign culture,

Deen4me:
The year passed and I had started seeing one of the Arabs. Again, we were just enjoying each other's company and never discussed our religious differences. Neither of us were practicing at this time so it never really became an issue for us. I did, deep down, feel guilty for not attending church, but I pushed it in the back of my mind. I was having too much fun.

this is another proof that you were never a christian to start with but a righteous "xtian" if you though having fun was a substitute for serving your GOD,then u werent feeling guilty but just added this for full effect of "committed christian"even the moslems will agree with me on that uplawal and abuzola?lol

Deen4me:
Another year passed and I was home for summer vacation when my roommate called me with some very distressing news: she'd become a Muslim!! I was horrified. She didn't tell me why she converted, just that she had spent a lot of time talking with her boyfriend's brother and it all made sense to her. After we hung up, I immediately wrote her a long letter explaining that she was ruining her life and to just give Christianity one more chance. That same summer my boyfriend transferred to Azusa Pacific University in California. We decided to get married and move to California together. Again, since neither one were practicing, religion was not discussed.

Secretly I started reading books on Islam. However I read books that were written by non-Muslims. One of the books I read was Islam Revealed by Anis Sorosh. I felt guilty about my friend's conversion. I felt that if I had been a better Christian, she would have turned to the church rather than Islam. Islam was a man-made religion, I believed, and filled with contradictions. After reading Sorosh's book, I thought I could convert my friend and my husband to Christianity.

At APU, my husband was required to take a few religion courses. One day he came home from class and said: "The more I learn about Christianity, the stronger my belief in Islam becomes." At about this same time he started showing signs of wanting to practice his religion again. Our problems began. We started talking about religion and arguing about our different beliefs. He told me I should learn about Islam and I told him I already knew everything I needed to know. I got out Sorosh's book and told him I could never believe in Islam. My husband is not a scholar by any stretch of the imagination, yet he had an answer for everything I showed him in Sorosh's book. I was impressed by his knowledge. He told me that if I really wanted to learn about Islam it must be through Islamic sources. He bought a few books for me from an Islamic bookstore and I started taking classes at a local mosque. What a difference the Islam I learned about from Muslim sources from the Islam I learned about from non-Muslims!

well i guess i will really love to meet your husband because i have a whole boatload of questions and contradictions on islam no one has been able to answer satisfactorily for me on nairaland,just ask me and i ll let 'em loose lol

Deen4me:
It was so difficult though when I actually decided to convert. My pride stood in the way for awhile. How could I admit to my husband and my friend that they were right all along? I felt humiliated, embarrassed. Soon though, I could deny the truth no longer, swallowed my pride, and alhamdulilah, embraced Islam - the best decision I ever made.

the pride against you converting to islam is more of a white american or whereever girl converting to islam from the muslims mid east rather than a christian converting,i am really tired of every single person especially morally bankrupt at best righteous people ascribitng to themselves the tag of a christian,even uplawal,who was simple a sunday sunday panadol calling herself a christian

Deen4me:
A few things I want to say to the non-Muslim reader:

[b]1. When I originally began my search for the truth all those years ago, I made a few wrong assumptions. First, I assumed that the truth is with Christianity only.

well,i am still 100% sure it is

Deen4me:
It never occurred to me at that time to look outside Christianity. Second, I assumed that the Bible was the true Word of God. These were bad assumptions because they prohibited me from looking at things objectively. When I began my earnest study of Islam, I had to start at the very beginning, with no preconceived ideas. I was not a Christian looking at Islam; I looked at both Islam and Christianity (and many other religions) from the point of view of an outsider. My advice to you is to be a critical thinker and a critical reader.

i have done that especially from an academic perspective and come to the same conclusion that islam isnt the way.
i dont have a big problem with islam being a man made religion,the problem i have with islam is that it is cock full of contradictions,devoid of love and full of intolerance hatred e.t.c

Deen4me:
2. Another mistake that many people make when talking about Islam is that they pick out a certain teaching and judge the whole of Islam on that one point.

there are more than enough points in islam,the quran and hadiths to point to that religion as full of hatred,contradictions
For example, many people say that Islam is prejudiced towards women because Islamic laws of inheritance award the male twice as much as the female. What they fail to learn, however, is that males have financial responsibilities in Islam that females do not have. It is like putting a puzzle together: until you have all the pieces in the right places, you cannot make a statement about the picture, you cannot look at one little piece of the puzzle and judge the whole picture.

[/quote]that isnt the only verse,unless you were suffering from vonvenient amnesia
how about the verse where mohammad was justified to lay his hand on any girl?that is objectifying women
how about a man in his fifties sleeping with a 9 years old?what part of the puzzle is that
how about a quran which relegates the women perpetually to the back,to eat the lef5t overs
how about the quran which calls for beating a disaobedient wife with the cane
there are several so ill love for you to show me that complete picture im not seeing

Deen4me:
3. Many people said that the only reason I converted was because of my husband. It is true that I studied Islam because he asked me to -

now we r getting to the crux of the matter,why have i been wasting my time since then??lol
[quote author=Deen4me link=topic=401075.msg5546463#msg5546463 date=1266595603]but I accepted Islam because it is the truth. My husband and I are currently separated and plan to divorce in June, insha' Allah. My faith in Islam has never been stronger than it is now. I look forward to finding a practicing Muslim husband, insha' Allah, and growing in my faith and practice. Being a good Muslim is my number one priority.
[/b]
May Allah lead all of us closer to the truth.

Source http://new-muslims-world..com/2009/10/i-grew-up-in-church.html

i agree your faith is really strong in spite of the seperation,but have you heard of a word "indoctrination" and brain washing?it gets to a stage where you believe your own mother is a witch out to get you,we have seen an example of this in akwa ibom

chakula:
Allah is gretest and for Him everything is possible

jesus is lord

we ll see who will convert between me and you,i ll even give you a time frame after i have studied your comments for a while

netotse:
if xtianity is about representing Christ here on earth then you lot are doing a very bad job. . .

ok then good for you

4llerbuntu:
loooooonnnngggggg sigh!!!!!

i truly identify with some of these issues. i'm a lawyer in nigeria and i hear all manner or balderdash and rubbish from folks around me all the time.

even my own family who sleep and wake with me everyday make mention of all manner of tripe like how they "think" or "know" that all lawyers belong to secret cults etc!!!!

it is a known fact that some naive and ignorant lawyers actually do belong to these cults i really dont blame them but the nigerian system which always seems to reward quacks and half baked lawyers as long as they have people "up there" to network for them,how many of your nigerian silks are actually worth wearing that robe??while the truelly brilliant lawyers are roaming about ikeja court doing charge and bail

4llerbuntu:
its really annoying when u hear all manner of nonsense from people who simply because they do not understand a thing start to mouth off recklessly.

what exactly is there to understand in what is no more than a secret evil cult,no matter the rose tinted eyes u want to look at it from

4llerbuntu:
all the quaint practices we have as a hangover from our colonial heritage get wound up and interpreted to mean God know what!!!!

what we inherited from the colonial masters have been bastardized and corrupted a very long time ago, ask yourself one question how come the crown courts and the magistrate courts here in the uk is not like what obtains in nigeria?

4llerbuntu:
you can imagine hearing tales about how the lawyers while in training eat some demonic dinners secret to everybody (just cos u are not invited to a meeting does not make it secret), you hear that our regalia is supposed to have some dumb spiritual significance, how all rich lawyers are cultists, ogboni members etc!!!

did you really think the regalias,the wig and everything else didnt have some significance to do with freemasonry e.t.c to start with?if you genuinely belive that sire then u must be really naive

4llerbuntu:
even in churches, i have been present and heard some really silly morons stand on the pupilt telling folks about how the lawyers wont make heaven (quoting scriptures to boot), also other nonsense, really the less is said about nigerian pastors the better it is for christianity as a whole!!!

and are these men or women of GOD wrong??
someone raped a 2 years old and you know he is clearly guilty,but out of your warped convictions as a lawyer you sucessfully defend him and he walks free to do it again,whose head do you think the blood would be on?
a man who you know did not win an election comes to you for advice,and because of the pecuniary gains,you wrongly advice him to keep on asking for all sorts of dubious injunctions and then eventually bribe judges and he occupies a seat he is not meant to be on, people riot and dies,do you honestly think their blood including those that are assasinated e.t.c will not be on the lawyer's head??

4llerbuntu:
imagine one fool even telling me that because judges are addressed as 'my lord' we are making them gods jesus, that is ignorance and illiteracy of the highest order!!!

i have actually thought about this as well,and still doing my research concerning its origins and roots,so i wont comment on that just yet but theres more to it than you casually dismiss with a wave of your hand

4llerbuntu:
anyways, incase u did not know christians actually have a few wierd practices themselves, i mean christians have rituals that they eat human flesh and drink human blood, all in seclusion!!! or what do u people think the communion is? the new breed nigerian ones even perform spiritual attacks on other people (what else is withcraft?) abi all those fire and thunder missiles thrown at percieved enemies like neighbours, extended family, 'evil' uncles etc are they not spiritual attacks?

now who is being ignorant now if you are actually asserting that the bible actually enjoins us to drink human blood and flesh??
i will like you to clarify the last part of this comment,are you saying there is nothing like witchcraft or evil powers e.t.c or are you stating that the christian prayers is ineffective?

4llerbuntu:
well stupidity is a virtue in nigeria anyway!!

i totally agree with you,thats why you will find a bunch of supposedly educated people lawyers inclusive still winning cases,on the basis of some archaic cult,how stu[pid and ignorant is that.
nigeria is the only place you will find a judge with like 50 years on the bench still belonging to a cul;t brough over from england in the 1700s and not realising that he is nothing but a house nigger obeying his white massa,some american graduants these days add the kente design to their gowns to give it an african touch but you will still find our nigerians still proudly showing off a purely western ideal as if it is a part of african culture, really absurd

4llerbuntu:
jesus is a GOD!!!! (95% of xtians do not understand what that means anyway) religion is an exercise for weak-minded people! find jesus and you will truly understand what i am saying. following jesus and following religion are two very distinct things. too bad your pastors and imams have to do your thinking for you!!!

you are guilty of misunderstanding what you r writing anyway,fpr starters the phrase is "jesus is lord" not GOD,several threads on here has explained the triune but if you decide to wallow in your naivety then im sorry i cant help out,if being in a cult is a sign of being of sound mkind,then im sorry i ll pass i ll however advice you to stop makiing open ended comments and actually make a cogent point what are you accursing christians off?this is so that your comments can be appropriately addressed

4llerbuntu:
besides its so convienient to be able to label other belief systems and thing you do not agree with "satanic" or "demonic".

no its not,we label anything negative or inherently evil satanic or demonic, one recurrent you will find running across anything we label demonic or satanic is that you can always identify satanic beliefs,influences over such including your cults

4llerbuntu:
thats the real "power" of the church, that ability to simply declare something as this or that and the millions of zombies simply start defending the pronouncements!!!!! thats power!!! but doesnt that mean that everything religious in any way that is not overtly christian is demonic?

well,your freemason cults have declared a set of rules for you to follow,and i dont see any of your members disagreeing with it yet,maybe millions follow the church because the basic ideal driving it outside of the doctrines and whatnot is siomply to love everyone as yourself,do good and live holy

4llerbuntu:
That all the moslem, ifa worshippers, kabbalist, hindus, etc are all DEMONIC AND SATANIC!!!? is'nt that the logical inference? i wait for the day christians will chop liver enough to look moslems in the face and call them satanic or demonic (even though iv heard many stories that the black stone houses a demon etc) lol

yes they are evil,demonic and satanic if there is any satanic or demonic inference or influence in anything they are doing,if an ifa worshipper tells me that i will need the blood,eyes and breasts of a 16 years old female virgin including the pubic hair to make money and he gets it and i make money is that supposed to be holy and free from satanic or demonic influence?
if someone tells me to worship kali the god of war/death in hindu is that supposed to be holy?
if a moslem tells me to cut off the finger tips and head of unbeleivers,wheres the holiness and love in that injunction sire??
i dont know about you,but i have looked many moslems in the facte and called their religion satanic and occultic with cogent and verifiable proof,many moslems on this forum will bear me witness as well

4llerbuntu:
whatever rocks your cradle bo, what galls is the self appointed right to assign tags on other peoples beliefs, nonsense!!! it makes you understand why the bible says "JESUS WEPT"

no one has ascribed to themselves any right to aportion what is morally right or wrong,what is right or wrong is all about societal values,as a christian what ties in with opur religious beliefs and convictions,dont expect me to sit down and watch an x rated movie because sex is not evil when i know that it can lead to an evil act if i didnt have self controll.
name one single vice which can not lead to a bad end and then begin to seee if christianity and its beliefs have not been vindicated after all

brownbonno:
In Africa, the Craft has, as its members, such eminent sons as John Kuffuor, president of Ghana, Jerry J. Rawlings, his predecessor, Omar Hadj Bongo, president of Gabon, and Paul Biya, president of Cameroon. Others are Blaise Campaore, president of Burkina Faso, Idris Deby, president of Chad, Mamadou Tanja, president of Niger, Denis Sassou Nguesso, president of Congo Brazaville, his predecessor, Pascal Lissouba and Robert Guei, a general and late head of state of Ivory Coast.

In South Africa where the country’s parliament is said to be located on a Freemasonry land, Nelson Mandela, the former president is on record as a member. The record shows that he was initiated into black obedience of American Freemasonry called Prince Hall. Kofi Annan, immediate past secretary general of the United Nations, is a prominent Freemason. In Nigeria, Freemasons were in the drivers’ seats in the public and private sectors of the economy from the colonial era up to the late seventies when the Yakubu Gowon military government promulgated a decree which classified Freemasonry as one of the banned secret societies. Its members in the public services were ordered to renounce their membership or resign. Newswatch investigation has revealed that Gowon was bowing to pressures mounted on his government by Islamic leaders, the Baptist and Catholic Churches that were not comfortable with the activities of Freemasons in their fold.

i will like to quickly comment on these comments,speaking froma political perspective,what good has the so called lodge done africa if all the "cult" could produce were despotic dictators who made it a sort of duty to kill andf maim their own people,if they were in the driver's seat in nigeria,what good have they done the country??
we call them secret cults who use human blood for sacrifice e.t.c is this not a self fulfilling prophecy considering the fact that all the leader5s you have mentioned and the countries in africa have all been plagued by the same bloodshed,unrest e.t.c?

left to me i just pity the so called cult members because already they are suffering the residue of racism without being aware,look at the name of the african lodge "black whatever"lol and then they like obedient nigger slaves still obey the white men who now order them to perform a set of sacrifices its a pity
as for your assertion that all members are rish,please this is a massive lie, in fact most of the ordinary members are not rich,including the spiritual leaders especially in nigeria who carry out the human and other sacrifices are not only poor materially but are tattered,the only wealth they have is in wicked medicines to cast spells

brownbonno:
However, we are well-known for our benevolent and charitable activities. We are proud to belong to a universal society comprising men of impressive accomplishment - Presidents, and Vice Presidents of America, Bill Gates, Nelson Mandela, Royal Fathers Nigerian (Obas and Obis), Supreme Court Justices, Archbishops of Canterbury, Kings of England, Scientists, Statesmen like Sir Winston Churchill and Benjamin Franklin, and Musicians like Mozart, Beethoven etc.
There is an old saying that there are none as blind as those who won't see. Those who decry Freemasonry may fall into this category, but we Masons shall continue to educate the public to dispel rumours and eradicate deliberate ignorance.

I.B. Ogun,
President of the Board of General Purposes,
For: District Grand Lodge of Nigeria

http://www.ngrguardiannews.com/letters/article02/indexn2_html?pdate=161109&ptitle=Freemason%20is%20not%20a%20secret%20society

http://masonicblogger..com/2009/11/article-taken-from-nigerian-guardian.html

mr ogun is not only making a lot of erroneous and false comments,but in my opinion he is seriously deluded as well,how many of the children roaming the streets has freemason helped?
how many of these children have the so called free mason impacted positively in their lives apart from sending jobless youths to go and kidnap and harvest human parts e.t.c

we know that a lot of governors,businessmen and women all belong to freemason,how come they have not used it as a springboard to enact laws that will favour the common people and the poor?
if you go to a hall in manchester today,you will find the freemason's hall at least we know the white people use theirs positively
please dont deceive naive and desperate people,if you are looking to be rich or connected,then freemason or any cult is not the answer, the rich men and women,politicians who belong to this cults use it as a form of network,in order to strenghten and advance their wealth,if you go there as a poor person,they will only use u for their dirty jobs while their own children are abroad schooling use the same energy in praying to GOD and pro actively working doing a business and you will be suprised at the outcome

i bough it last year november when i was in lagos and i totally agree with you its really awesome,i was actually strolling on my way home when i heard it from a roadside loud speaker and i went to the shop to enquire and bought the two cds

Zodiac61:
Typical pentecostal, it is always the woman's fault. As if the man do not have any blame.

irrespective of whose fault it is,the point here is that benny hinn didnt start the divorce proceedings

Zodiac61:
And fast for 60 days and nights. Maybe a miracle will happen. Good luck, Benny, you might just hold on to your loot hard earned cash.

more wild unsubstantiated allegations

netotse:
it's ppl like you that make me stay away from 'religion' in NL, you're so full of ignorance and hatred, your kind never fails to bring to mind 2 quotes

i like you Christ but i dont like your christians, you christians are nothing like your Christ - Ghandi

The last christian died on the cross, in christianity as practiced, at no time does morality and righteousness come into contact with reality - nietzsche

i wonder if they met ppl like you. . .

and no i'm neither a muslim nor an atheist!

if you v opted to stay away from religion or religious threads then good for you,thats your prerogative and absolutely no skin of my nose, but what i dont get is your morose babbling with some quotes which have little or nothing to do with me or my religious convictions, clarify your comments in some sensible order and i will give you the appropriate response

from my own little knowledge of the bible,benny hinn is not at fault here if his wife started the divorce proceedings,she is the one that will stand before GOD and explain herself,as for benny hinn not knowing his isnt the first the fact is that the devil always uses loved ones closest to men /women of GOD when he cant suceed in getting the main person.
late pastor babalola's wife was known to have publicly slapped him on the altar,including throwing his mace/walking stick out of the train e.t.c
im sure everyone has heard of abiara's daughter
i could go on and on, the point of my preamble is that this incident does not in any way remove from the awesome annointing benny hin is carrying

again i must really commend pastor tb joshua for this promp and genuine response,this is what being a christian is all about and i really hope mor4 churches will follow this awesome example

btlasisi:
Just an add-on.

Valentine can not be said to be core xtianity celebration (Check wikipaedia) but was promoted by entrepreneurs who always want to seize any available festive period to increase their sales.

In Nigeria, Valentine is generally regarded as a day to slaughter (must take your girlfriend to bed) as such, many xtians organisations normally fix a lot of their religions activities of that day in order to preoccupy their youth.

To me, valetine means promotion of promiscuity

you need to get yourself right first you disagree with an article one pf your muslim brothers posted on here about the origin of valentine and then you try to tell us to accept wikipedia which is not a credible source of information as it is biased and subjective and then you erroneously conclude that valentines is a sex orgy of some sort is this the way muslims think??

btlasisi:
@GODSON2009 ,

I do not know what you realy driving at.

Have you read about how xtians scholars arrived at different number of books from different version of bible?

Read the history shortly before king james and after king james (read the events from 1560 to 1750)

clarify and marshall your points together then i can answer you properly, on the question of contradictions your mohammad made a lot of it starting with the satanic verses,abrogations e.t.c

ayanrin:
@alimat 2
Assalam Alaekum waramotulahi wabarakatuhu
exactly (alimat) they dnt deserve any respond frm muslim here. they will totally rotten in hell fire if they continue talking jargons.

Ma salam

we will see who will be rotting in hell when the trumpet sounds, lets wait and see one thing i know for sure is that my own church,denomination has not shed a drop of blood,nor bombed anyone in the last century can you say the same for all the members of your own sect either sunni or shia?lol

[quote author=t.truth link=topic=361701.msg5544055#msg5544055 date=1266577293]@Uplawal :

It is not too late, Repent NOW and be saved.[/quote]she will eventually i am seeing the signs already lol

FayeZik:
@poster & Co.
Since you have come to the conclusion that Islam is not for you based on the pictures of Islam/Muslims you have irrationally painted in your minds and the minds of your likes, can you just REST and let us BE. WE extended no invitations to YOU, nothing is being forced onto you. PLEASE LET US MAINTAIN PEACE AND ORDERLY. That should not be too much for any CIVILIZED person to do. Thanks for your consideration.

'QUL YA AYU AL KAFIRUN
LA AHABUDU MOH TAHABUDUN
WA LA AHNTUN AHABIDUN MOH AHABUD
WA LA ANA AHABIDUN MOH ABADTUM
WA LA ANTUN AHABIDUN MOH AHABUDU
LA KUN DINNU KUM WALI YADIN'


Good day to you all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you muslims are the ones we should be appealing to
you continually plagrialize our biblical accounts to validate your ibo made religion please stop using our biblical characters like abraham,isaac,jesus christ e.t.c na by force!!
jesus christ is not your prophet he is our lord and saviour so leave him be and stop bastardizing his name in your Qruran

also its not by force to be a muslim,so stop bombing and killing us or forcing us to join your evil religion/cult

@tv01
i didnt realise such a thred existed,funny enough i agree with most of your original assertions on this particular thread,so it seems to me that you are disagreeing with yourself more on the other thread for some reason,however the part which i will comment on on this thread is that which addresses which of the elders or five fold might have pre eminence.
the way i see it,the prophet has been unwittingly given pre eminence due to the fact that most christians,especially the young christians whose faiths need regular boosting and  who constitute the majority of the global church requires the services of the prohet more than even that of the pastor.

im not sure if you r also the one that made the comment that a christian is not bound by heirachy or structure,but if you did then i will have to disagree with that as well simply because our GOD loves order,also the bible says precept upon precept,line after lineincluding several places in the old and new testament where respect for constituted authority was severally highlighted