₦airaland Forum

Someone said that the word of God can be understood even by Children, so the question then is which is easier to believe that there is one true God has it is written who brought forth a son not by procreation but as creator who created all things or to believe that there are three gods who are actually one but one sent the other.

You may say that I am not stating it properly probably because I don't believe in that lie termed trinity, here's what some so called megachurches believe;


Deeper life believe

"That the Godhead consists of three separate, distinct, and recognisable personalities and qualities, perfectly united in one. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are different Persons in the Godhead, not merely three names for one Person.
(Matthew 3:16,17; 2 Corinthians 13:14; Matthew 28:19,20.)

We believe in Trinity that is, three distinct personalities in Godhead, the father, the Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. The father is God, The son is God and the Holy Spirit is God and yet there is one God."

Now let us look at the passages from the Bible they quote to support this believe of three in one God, that is one God that is three persons.

Matt.3.16 - After his baptism, as Jesus came up out of the water, the heavens were opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and settling on him.
Matt.3.17 - And a voice from heaven said, "This is my beloved Son, and I am fully pleased with him."

Here deeper life are said to believe that there are three persons here, which is true as we can see from Matthew 3:16-17 they quoted and they say they are different persons and not three names for one person, so there are three people in God or God in three persons.

Now they make a question a statement "The father is God, The son is God and the Holy Spirit is God and yet there is one God." How you mention three persons and three gods and say yet there is one God means there are two others who are false gods. Is the father the false god or the son or the spirit, this is not a statement of believe but of doubt.

I read the statement to someone, "The father is God, The son is God and the Holy Spirit is God and yet there is one God."

And the question is, how is there one God?

The statement of trinity creates doubt that there is one true God

Nachmonides:
Christ's Preexistence and Divinity: John 1:1-3 declares that Jesus (the Word) was with God and was God, affirming His eternal deity, not a position earned. Philippians 2:6-9 shows that His exaltation after His earthly mission was a restoration of glory, not a promotion beyond His nature.

Christ's Unchanging Nature: Hebrews 13:8 states, "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever." His divine status was never dependent on earthly achievements.

What do you have to say to these?

by this your believe you nullify the fact and truth that Jesus was rewarded. So Jesus was not promoted according to you.

So Jesus who was given a name above every other name under God was not rewarded but restored back to glory..

Now tell us what was Jesus's name before he was given a name, that at the mention of his name... you know the rest? And secondly why that name wasn't given since he had the name ever since, why was it a promise from God. Did God lie and hide salvation while men suffered.

If the lamb according to Revelation had already collected the book and overcome the serpent, why wait four thousand years.

Do you know what someone who heard you u guys lies said to me on this nairaland because of people like you, that god is dumb, why wait thousands of years.


You will run away, but for the sake of others, let me ask you

Christ's nature is unchanging yet you believe Christ is god, so did God die on the cross? This is one of the questions that came from someone else as well.

If Christ doesn't change them he came as god and died as god and returned back to being a god?

"His divine status was never dependent on earthly achievements."

So Christ didn't have to obeyed God

Steep:
you are still not getting it, if a Man is a doctor, a father and a teacher does that mean doctor, father and teacher are what makes up that man? I am not saying that is what what the Trinity is, but just as you cannot say a man that is in different positions or offices is made up of those office or position so also, the father, Son, and holy spirit are persond of the one God.

the answer to your question is YES, the man is a doctor, a father and a teacher, a professor in medicine possible is who He is based on his severally degrees and experiences.

So the son is an office and the Holy Spirit is an office and the Father is an office which one person God has, now is God in heaven or on earth?

If you say both or avoid my questions like you and your fellows do, hope others can see your nonsense. If you say both, then God is on earth, so why does scripture say God is coming if He is already here?

If you say He is coming in a different office, then does He occupy three offices at the same time or nullify the others with his complete presence?

If He doesn't and occupies all three, how does He do it, as one God or as three different persons?

If you say one, then that means He nullifies the rest

If you say three it means God isn't one but three and If God is three why then do you insist that God is one?

Is it because God himself said He alone is God? But you believe He is three and since you cannot be lying then you mix it into that, three gods you believe in are one?

Nachmonides:
Thank you for your detailed responses as always.

I have read all that you have written and I must confess, you haven't addressed the issues I presented. Forgive me if I failed to see them if you have. I wrote about how scriptures tells us about the pre-existence, divinity, uniqueness of sonship, and the position he was exalted to that could never have been something beyond his nature; If truly he is God.


These are the thoughts I conveyed in my last text.
Please can you touch on them focusing on them without digression?

not to come into a conversation I wasn't following but your statement "the position he was exalted to that could never have been something beyond his nature; If truly he is God."

Are you saying Jesus was exalted because he is a god?

Steep:
The diagram is clear, it says that God is the father, God is the Son and God is the holy ghost but however the father is not the Son neither the Son the holy ghost. Like saying the man is the teacher, judge, and father but father is not the same as teacher neither the same as judge. In the case of Trinity we are not talking of positions or offices but rather personhood.

the question is, when the man is a judge is he also teaching in the classroom, can he be all three at the same time?


You guys have gone from Godhood to personhod. Okay so they are all the same person?
Tagging: Truthseeker10

SonofElohim1379:
The Word (Yeshua) is God

No need for useless back and forth as the Scripture has made it quite clear that even a little child will understand.

you lie against scripture making that you people's nonsense about trinity clear, and NO child who reads the bible would believe that's why you all have to come up with numerous different ways to hide a lie by corrupting what is actually written

DaddyCoool:
Nope. "Unverified info of wars going on" is clearly what the Bible meant.
Today either there is a war or there is not! There are no "rumors of wars"!
In biblical times there were rumors of wars because information traveled very slowly and hard to verify. Not so at all today

you mean like the "cold war" between USA and Russia. Was it ever confirmed?

Was there not one about North Korea one time like

johnw47:
It's very clear and straight forward what I said



my post was not about john 8:58 or "I am"
and john 8:58 doesn't show "was" to be wrong @ john 1:

trying to understand grammar is for when it suits the lies you sporut even going ahead as to mix things up

again, my post was not about; - if Jesus is God or not,
but about; - "was" being correct grammar for john 1:1



so you mix past tense with present.
as I already said; that's ok with me,
and the word; "was" is proper grammar for john 1:1
show how it is not

I didn't mix anything you did, so change that you to an I for yourself

Here's what you wrote"past tense is not present tense:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning (past tense) was "is" the Word (present tense),
and the Word was with God (past tense), and the Word was "is" God (present tense)."

both words; "Theon" and "Theos" means God,
in john 1:1 it's "Theon" for Father, and "Theos" for the Word.

'Theos' is used in john for "the Word", and 'Theos' is also used in new testament scripture for "the Father",

only in your head and those who believes the lie of the devil that you believe Theos is the Word

but stop running away from the subject, show that the word 'was' is not correct grammar @ john 1:1
Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

look at you patheticly deceiving yourself that I ranaway from the subject you are clearing quoting my answer, are you not confused like this. "I should show that was is not correct" did I tell you that "was" is not correct. What kind of confused human is this for Christ sakes, were you not the one mentioning "is" and "will be" going on about past present and future, all in your attempt to show that the Word is God and not the Word was God

Here's what you wrote
"past tense is not present tense:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning (past tense) was "is" the Word (present tense),
and the Word was with God (past tense), and the Word was "is" God (present tense)."

false accuser like the devil, quote where I gave misinterpretation:
Rev_12:10  Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night.



oh duh, so dum
"the Word" is nominative/the person Who is the subject in the sentence:
the Word was with God

"God" is accusative/the person that the subject refers to:
the Word was with God

and what has that to do with: "was", being correct grammar or not:
Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.



I didn't post a "present tense" example
I posted "past tense is not present tense" , and what you quoted is not what I posted, oh deceiver

you have already shown in your post to be a false accuser like the devil,
and here you have also shown to be a liar like the devil:
Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. WHENEVER HE SPEAKS A LIE, THAT IS HIS NATURAL WAY OF SPEAKING, for he is a liar and the father of lies.



such confusion and running away from a very simple subject,
you cannot even accept that "was" is correct grammar for john 1:1
and your ego has you all over the place in denying such a simple truth:
1Co 14:33  For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints

running away from truth is cowardly:
rev 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

In the beginning was the word and the word was with 'ton Theon' and 'Theos' was the word

According to you people's misinterpretion because you don't know the difference between an accusative noun and a normative noun,.... you can even say "God was the word"

Where is the false accusation, don't you believe that Jesus is God because the word was God something you are still stating yet you call it a false accusation. Or are you denying yourself in your confusion

Quoting Rev 12:10 shows that you are a brood of viper, the very verses already states the truth, the kingdom of God and the authority of HIS Christ. Jesus belongs to God, he is HIS word and not God the son or God the word or whatever nonsense you twist revelation and truth to be.

Your own words accuse you, defile you and condemn you before God.

This is what I wrote: Funny how John 1:1 WAS God and not is 😁

And This is the nonsense you wrote as part of your response
"past tense is not present tense:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning (past tense) was "is" the Word (present tense),
and the Word was with God (past tense), and the Word was "is" God (present tense)."

You jumped into a conversation without understanding, I responded to you and in your foolishness, believing in your heart there is no one true God.

This is what you wrote
past tense is not present tense:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning (past tense) was "is" the Word (present tense),
and the Word was with God (past tense), and the Word was "is" God (present tense).


Look being a liar and bringing our verses that show you to be a lie, and even verses that condemned you for your lies, shows that you don't and won't have an excuse. You want to win a debate at the expense of your own soul.

My purpose is to show solely from God's word that God never lied, He is God alone and Jesus is His Son.

When the devil used the Nicene creed to corrupt and fight the church, Christ Jesus knew before hand and sent his letters and warnings to the church.

Whether you believe Jesus is God because the word was God shows you are ignorant of God's word. And then trying to use English even further showed your ignorance. Leaving Greek aside.

You believe John wrote the word WAS God, but then who IS he Jesus, the word of God, he is the son of the living God and not God the son.

God is not a title He is YHVH.

SonofElohim1379:
The Word (Yeshua) is God

No need for useless back and forth as the Scripture has made it Quiet clear that even a little child will understand.

which scripture? Is it the one of God or of Satan.

When faced with the truth you choose to run from it like darkness flesh from light

SonofElohim1379:
Okay what does this say ?

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with
God

1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.


Still confused?

never asked you what it says nor did I tell you I was confused.

Before you joined the conversation you should have at least read what has previously been postedbut instead you are jumping from one thing to another like a confused human being.

DaddyCoool:
"You people" raised him from the dead to be worshipped as God??
Na wa for you o

changing the purpose for a thing is what devil is good at

SonofElohim1379:
Soo much writing and obfuscation without making sense. Your argument is simply all over the place

Observe this scripture carefully

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

If God the Father Glorifies Jesus with his own self, what does it imply?

Have you forgotten that Yeshua is the word of God? Can God be seperate from his Word?

It's just common sense and needs no further arguments

oh KJV has NKJV you know
John.17.5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

How can what I wrote not make sense to you but KJV language does, dont you see there's something wrong with you.

Can God be separate from his word?
Do you even read your Bible or is it there as a poetry book of thou and thy

He sent forth His word, and healed them. calling it God's word doesn't separate God from His word, His word doesn't have to be a god for it to agree (be one) with God. God's word na messenger

DaddyCoool:
So what is he AND why did the Father raise him from literally death to be worshipped with him as God all these centuries??
Why not just simply let him stay dead and avoid the blasphemy??

God didn't do that, you people did

SonofElohim1379:
Okay here are the verses


John 12:28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.

John 13:32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him. John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.


John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:


John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Any more questions?

Okay I have more time now, so you say these verses above show that "Christ was glorified as God" yet NONE of them, NOT ONE of them states that Jesus Christ is glorified as god or becomes a god.

First verse from John 12:28, let's read from verse 27


John.12.27 - Now my soul is deeply troubled. Should I pray, 'Father, save me from what lies ahead'? But that is the very reason why I came!
John.12.28 - Father, bring glory to your name." Then a voice spoke from heaven, saying, "I have already brought it glory, and I will do it again."

Jesus was troubled and prayed, he was not a god but a man before God and the next verse doesn't show Christ being glorified as a god.

Next John 13
John.13.31 - As soon as Judas left the room, Jesus said, "The time has come for me, the Son of Man, to enter into my glory, and God will receive glory because of all that happens to me.
John.13.32 - And God will bring me into my glory very soon. (This is NLT)


Now NIV
John.13.32 If God is glorified in him, God will glorify the Son in himself, and will glorify him at once. (NIV)

Still doesn't state that Jesus Christ was glorified as a god or was to be glorified as a god. But will be glorified in GOD

Even we who make it will be glorified
Rom.8.18 Yet what we suffer now is nothing compared to the glory he will give us later.
Rom.8.30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

So because we will be glorified doesn't mean we will be glorified as God..

Okay John 16

John.16.13 - When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not be presenting his own ideas; he will be telling you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future.
John.16.14 - He will bring me glory by revealing to you whatever he receives from me.
John.16.15 - All that the Father has is mine; this is what I mean when I say that the Spirit will reveal to you whatever he receives from me.

The Holy Spirit will glorify Jesus by revealing his words to us which Jesus received from the Father. As simple and straightforward as this statement is please surprise me by understanding it.

John 17, let's read from 1 to 5, and not skip verses shall we

John.17.1 - When Jesus had finished saying all these things, he looked up to heaven and said, "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son so he can give glory back to you.
John.17.2 - For you have given him authority over everyone in all the earth. He gives eternal life to each one you have given him.
John.17.3 - And this is the way to have eternal life--to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth.
John.17.4 - I brought glory to you here on earth by doing everything you told me to do.
John.17.5 - And now, Father, bring me into the glory we shared before the world began.


Now where God is is glorious that's why we have hope for that glory, to enter into glory, if you had such hope you wouldn't be making such silly mistakes and accusing that this verses means Christ is glorified as a god.

Do you understand what it means for Jesus to be glorified and return glory back to God. Do you understand the great importance of being resurrected after a public roman execution, overcoming death. This isn't just overcoming poverty or sickness, but overcoming the biggest insurmountable problem of humanity, death.

And that's why we believe that Jesus, like he said in verse two, has received authority to give us eternal life.

Jesus whom you falsely accused as a god, said there's is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD, so you also accuse him of lying against God or declaring himself as a false god who glorified himself??

But Jesus didn't, he humbled himself and OBEYED ALL God commanded of him. Jesus the sinless man is not God and didn't become a god.

SonofElohim1379:
How does it Contradict?

What does verse 11 say in that same Phillipians?

post it let see what verse 11 says...
To the glory of God not to his own glory.

kingxsamz:
The god is not wise sha.
Now he's struggling to win souls when all he had to do was keep that serpent away from the garden. To even show you how unwise the god is, he decided to protect the garden from outsiders only after Adam and Eve had been tempted by the serpent.
Like I said, even Tinibooo would have made better decisions, and Tinibooo himself is a very duII president.

struggling to win 😏 didn't he flood the earth and spare just 8 humans that's the kind of finger snapping you wanted. Problem is, would you even survive it?


Protect it from Adam, whom he kicked out. Don't know who you think he should have protected it from before.

Well tinibooo is your Lord, maybe his better decisions will save you someday 👍

SonofElohim1379:
Okay here are the verses


John 12:28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.

John 13:32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him. John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.


John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:


John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Any more questions?

you didn't answer the question
According to you what John wrote in this five verses show that Christ was glorified as God and contradicts the Philippians 2:9-11 I quoted. Right?

Dtruthspeaker:
See, even you know spelt it "lord" with small letters and not Lord/LORD as is usually used in reference of Jesus.

So, you already know that this answer is invalid as Sarah was not referring to Abraham as Jesus Christ.



O this offended you! I apologize. I thought you overlooked it knowing I was trying to say verse 33.

And in my eagerness to get to the Truth of the matter I overlooked that you could be offended by my query.

I respectfully apologize.

apology accepted...

There's a difference between some translations use of LORD and Lord, LORD is actually YHVH while Lord is a title not a name, a title like King

If I write jesus you still know he's Jesus and I used Sarah as an example of the usage of the word Lord not LORD.

Now YHVH can be called Lord-Adonia but any Lord cannot be called YHVH.

That's why it says in Psalm 110: YHVH said to my Lord...

Dtruthspeaker:
Ok.

I was just taking note of the fact that your bible was different and that being different it would mislead you in thinking that Jesus is not God

doing worry about that I have and have read multiple versions and translation, also with Greek and Hebrew texts as well, and the Septuagint.

SonofElohim1379:
Any more questions?

Please next time past the verses as text not photo, nairaland isn't that convenient to use.

John 12:28; 13:32; 16:4; 17:1&5
According to you what John wrote in this five verses show that Christ was glorified as God and contradicts the Philippians 2:9-11 I quoted. Right?

DaddyCoool:
I'll TEACH you patiently as I taught the other guy. All I ask is that you show some appreciation:

There is only ONE God and he has always been, and he has always been by himself. BUT he has also ALWAYS had a "son" (remember, he was by himself yet has always had a "son"}. Then some 2000 years ago a human body was prepared and this "son" dwelt in that body to accomplish some assignments on earth, after which he returned to the "Father".
If there is any part you don't understand tell me let me clarify

so you refuse to believe what is revealed because of this

DaddyCoool:
Christ is eternal - has ALWAYS been with the Father

so he never came, he never taught, he never died nor rose.

Like I said, you are not wise enough to propagate a lie. Tell me why do you believe such lies?
And don't say because it makes sense, anyone who evaluates your sensibility would disagree with you. So why do you believe

Dtruthspeaker:
Now you are confusing me even more and it seems like you are running from properly settling this.

I do not understand the connection are you saying Jesus the son of God is not God, which violates even the commands God gave which predates the laws of Moses?

And this is another issue which is going to confuse things, since we already disagree on the issue of Jesus being God.

So, if you truly believe you are right let us focus on this sole issue and I started first by asking you

1) if Jesus is not God, how then and why then is He called, Lord?

2) And based on your Isaiah 33. Did Jesus not confirm that He is coming to Judge?

So if you could settle these questions, then we can see who is right or wrong

1. Lord does not mean God, even Sarah called Abraham lord. Jesus is Lord and husband of the church, his bride.

2. You made a mistake, and quoted the wrong verse but instead of taking correction, you attacked the verse I wrote. Do you think such a person is worth speaking to?

DaddyCoool:
Adam was CREATED

and Jesus is not the son of God because Mary did not give birth to him?

.

DaddyCoool:
How can God have son. Who is the mother? Why have only one

who is the mother of Adam?

DaddyCoool:
I only said Christ has to be God. What else can he be??

the son of God.

SonofElohim1379:
Christ was fully Glorified as God by the Father after completing his works on earth.

At the mention of the name "Yeshua" all knees must bow, in heaven, on earth and below the earth and proclaim that "Yeshua" is God to the Glory of God the Father


Any more questions?

where did you see or read that Christ was glorified as God?

Please don't use your imagination to answer.

This is what is written in Philippians:2

Yet it was because of this that God raised him up to the heights of heaven and gave him a name which is above every other name, that at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (9-11)

You can change it and lie all you want but the lie would never become true because many people want it to be.

DaddyCoool:
NO, genius! Of course light is not the sun. I pointed that out long ago as the flaw in the analogy, saying there are nuclear reactions in the sun!

now you have no analogy even in creation that shows it's agrees with such because it's a lie even nature denies yet you go against nature to believe it, why?

I want to know why you believe the trinity and Jesus is God?
Because honestly unlike the rest you are horrible as defending that nonsense so there must be another reason.

Nachmonides:
If truly you understood the doctrine of Trinity, you would know it opposes the idea of God splitting, changing, and evolving.

The doctrine of Trinity explicitly states that God is one being in essence, but exists in three persons. This does not imply that God "split" into three separate entities.

Even the council of Nicaea folks like to reference doesn't say anything contrary.
Please go and learn about the doctrine of Trinity, before arguing against it. I'm not here to lecture you on it.

I'm here to talk with someone who understands it and yet opposes it.

so is God now one or is He three

If you say God is both one and three, then in what realm does he exist as one and in what realm does he exist as three

If you say in the same realm, then doesn't that count has four, God who is one and God who is three

Now if you say it is Godhood or Godship, it means there is no God but a title shared by three entities, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The question now is how did they attain the title since you say it is just one title, God?


Guy the reason you also run as nothing to do with my understanding that rubbish and nonsense called trinity, but your reaction as darkness to light, as the blind to God's revelation and to a wisdom you cannot gainsay on.

You want to ignore that you believe of John 1:1 that the word was God and John 1:14 the word became flesh. Means God became flesh, so did he lose his godhood so as to die but then, he doesn't change but you believe he did... meaning he is a false god, a lying one you believe in.

Those questions I asked above you will ignore and run as usually but it's okay.

DaddyCoool:
See my previous post. Infact here it is:

Have you been following at all? I already said that's the flaw in that analogy

The question remains

Is light the sun? Yes or no, I didn't expect you to answer the first few times and neither have I seen you as wise so you can ignore the question again. It is expected from you.

SonofElohim1379:
Where did i ever claim or say I'm the Christ to become a false Christ to begin with?

you are falsely representing Christ by claiming he is a god.