₦airaland Forum

ehizario2012:
Lol @judgement. Now I understand why people bring their issues here and say it happened to their uncle, brother, sister, neighbour, cousin etc... never themselves! Its the judgement they afraid of... Well, I'm an Edo man and we nor dey fear judgement.
It's all in the past now anyway.

someone even asked a question about whether you contested the ticket and what was the outcome, I was waiting for your reply on that before all the gbas gbos left right and centre.

profemebee:
You always amaze me

Someone freely told a story, started and finished the story... and is being corrected so he can learn from his mistakes

You reply stating you don't think he has finished the entire story.....

lol.. amazing stuff..


I'm sure if the race was switched and it was the white conductor giving him the penalty charge, it would have been "the white conductor is racist"

ok finish him then

ReesheesuKnack:
Imagine….. na you break law, na you still wan come claim say black conductor do wrong.
You are in the wrong.

before we pass judgment on him, I don't think he has finished the entire story

ehizario2012:
Hmmm... In my first week in this country, I took a train to Rotherham from Sheffield and paid £5.6 in cash inside the train, on my way back I paid the same £5.6 in cash. The conductors were white, a lady to, and a guy fro. It was only me that day, I went to confirm our accomodation.

Following day, I packed my family and all my children inside train to Rotherham, got there as usual, met a white conductor outside the train and told him I'll be paying cash inside the train he said no problem. Lo and behold, the conductor I saw was a black man, he asked for tickets and I said I am paying cash. Next thing, this black man gave me a ticket of £100 for not buying a ticket before boarding the train... My protests and samples of receipts of previous journeys fell on deaf ears. I felt so embarrassed with my kids. That's how we do ourselves, over sabi na e dey kill some of us. Over do!!! He definitely came in as a migrant too! If na Lagos we dey, I for use something do am.

you for show am oppa gangnam style

ReesheesuKnack:
Apparently, some things that are very common-sensical aren’t.

The recent rules aim a cutting NET migration. For visa holders who are already in-country, the rules that will apply to them are the rules that were in place AT THE TIME OF ORIGINAL VISA APPROVAL.
The rules can only be applied to New Arrivals, from New Applications. Honestly, people should stop all these mindless postulations.

There is precedence. When the Tier-1 (HSMP) rules were changed, the courts ruled that the rules can not be applied to persons already granted on previous rules.

If we are going by what was written in that link shared to explain the new policies, there is nothing concrete to support @the bolded, we can only assume that will be the case when they make up their minds, for now, they haven't.

jum33:
I doubt it because dependant that have already spent 2/3 years are on a dependant skilled visa are also on a pathway to ILR just like main applicant. And Ilr is treated independently that is main applicant doesn't affect dependant and vice versa
Where a new immigration rule can into effect is when an applicant or dependant is changing to another visa route after the new rule is already on .
Even as a student visa dependant, by default they are already on 10 years route to ILR ,and if this pathway can be maintained for that 10 years I don't think any new government law can touch them from getting their ILR.
The only fear is those on student visa that are yet to get their COS after spring and if its a carer COS it possible their dependant can be rejected .

We can only speculate cos nothing is in black and white to hold onto for now on the issue of visa renewal

Goddys:
It's very obvious from the response that those on 2/3 years work visa won't be able to apply for their dependants at renewal because they said only 25% of dependants are working.

You’re really getting their drift that’s why they were silent on it for now. Am guessing they want to see how the numbers will drop before making a final decision

Goddys:
I don't think the 3 years counts towards ILR 5 years route with another employer

It will because it’s still work visa just that the person can’t resume with another employer until after obtaining the renewed visa sponsored by the new employer.

hustla:
Aluta continua

noo this one na NYSC, Now Your Search Continues

hustla:
Hmmm, that's not bad at all..

3 years also isn't bad. During that time, one should be able to get a better paying role

Thought its blanket for everyone regardless of where they're coming from. One last Q, does it apply to those in Tech and maybe HR also?

it applies to every sector.

hustla:
So how will they know who's just starting and what's the salary threshold for them?

Those on student visas and post study are seen as new entrants into the labour market where new entrant rule applies. Salary threshold at 70% of 38700 which is 27k but only 3 years of COS

Zahra29:
The graduate salary discount still applies though for entry level roles

And the COS cannot be for more than 4 years, so they can only get at most 3 years COS and upon renewal the 38,700k will now apply. I hope folks are aware.

hustla:
Exactly what I said

It means for folks seeking entry-level roles with sponsorship, may God be with you

Dem lock door throw way key join

jum33:
Thus might clarify some grey areas on this new visa rules ;
https://homeofficemedia.blog.gov.uk/2023/12/08/reducing-net-migration-factsheet-december-2023/

The aspect of visa renewal is still vague, I just feel for those on 2 or 3 years work visas. There was nothing stopping the govt to address that area immediately like the way the nhs aspect was quickly addressed.

missjekyll:
Much as the tories want you to think your inability to access timely healthcare, get a schoolplace for your child is due to immigration, it is not.

Populations should increase with time . This increase is desirable inorder to provide the funds and human resources needed to power the economy, pay pensions etc.

Its been known for decades that the uk needed to build more houses , hospitals, train more staff. Funding was allocated for this in advance.

What we have seen in the past 13 years is funding cuts every year . What we are suffering now is the result of public services built for the population of 2010 being used by the population of 2023.

According to the ONS here , we did not even grow as much as expected, yet we are struggling https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/bulletins/annualmidyearpopulationestimates/mid2021#population-change-for-uk-countries

Thank God am not the one the saying this, I would have been termed emotional or hypocrite

jedisco:
Entitlement.... hehe.. I laugh when people mention entitlement on this page.
The average immigrant many times doesn't even know his/her protected rights talk more of being entitled.

The fact is that an average immigrant needs to work in certain sectors or spend average of 5 yrs in this country to begin to understand what British entitlements means.

Dem don cast us finish for this place, that since our home country is no better we should not complain much. I once told my British pastor and his wife in church how much we pay for ihs, their face just turn red and almost passed out. They were shocked at the amount we immigrants pay into their system. I don’t blame our people much we are all coming from a system with almost no protected rights

iyatrustee:
Honestly, Goke needs to address issues from a logical point of view and not out of emotions.

He makes some good points, but has a way of twisting people's words in a sinister way.

Every side to this discussion have raised valid points. But while others present theirs objectively, he is subjective in his opinion.

The impression some are giving is that we have unnecessary sense of entitlement despite the fact that for everyone who is here they fulfilled the legal residency obligations

Goodenoch:
As usual you have come with misrepresenting what people say to drive this your oppression agenda.

I never said you should not advocate for whatever. In fact, if you read my comment again, I said I agree that economic migration is a contractual issue, so clearly we all have rights and must protect them.

What I was calling out is your attempts to frame these measures as being unheard of, inhumane, and out of the norm of what countries (including our home country) put in place, making it seem as if the primary driving force for these policies is hate for immigrants or wanting to oppress migrants.

I know you'll still spin this as you want, but I'm just clearing the air for other hopefully more objective people.

For the first time your tone towards me change cos all along it was if I was irritating you. You were commenting as if we have met somewhere before and I was wondering. What if I said you were also misrepresenting me too. You don’t even know what am dealing with or what many others too are going through or dealing with. If indeed it’s a contractual issue and folks think it will have adverse effects on their families and wellbeing should they not express it, seek help and even find out what they can do.

Goodenoch:
How you feel about your home country has everything to with the UK - in particular, how people view immigration and respond to it.

If in your own country there are impossibly high barriers for immigrants to come in and work or access public services, all while still paying taxes and various fees and you have never advocated for that to change, but you go to another person's country and you are casting their policies that are much more liberal despite being made more restrictive recently as inhumane, then it's hypocrisy .

Would you and your people back home tolerate the same numbers that you are saying are insignificant here? Not just from other countries o - even inter state and inter-region, do we not see even more stringent restrictions on 'foreigners' trying to get certain jobs/public offices? If you know all these but act shocked that Brits are being the same, then, again, it's hypocrisy.

You say they aren't doing us immigrants a favour, and I agree. But it's also on this thread that many (including you if I recall correctly) essentially said immigrants are doing the UK a favour and that the economy would collapse, and that 'what does the average brit even contribute?' So now that they are saying they don't want to do business again, why the lamentations?

Very good, they are very liberal in separating families they will even go ahead by telling us how many children immigrants can give birth to or bypass courts of law for folks not to have legal representations on cases cos we are all hypocrites from Nigeria. Who am I to disagree with you? You are very right. I will continue to accept whatever comes my way, I never protested one day In Nigeria or spoke against corruption so why must I open my mouth here, who born monkey? I must act like a conquered slave here cos that's who I am after all.

dupyshoo:
The major increase in healthcare visa this year can mostly be attributed to those coming in on care visa. The question to ask is if they are really getting the care visa or majority of them are buying COS without job. So, it is actually not that easy to get care visa COS too without paying huge amount. Even Nurses are finding it hard to get job from Nigeria since last year. Gone were the days when Nurses when coming in droves.

The worrying aspect is that if they don't get a proper COS soon, it might affect their ability to get ILR as you can't get ILR with no job COS.

you are just confirming all that I have been saying or asking who are the people getting these visas, yet we are overloading the system or serving as a hindrance to locals. Where is the easy access to foreign or cheap labour here? And surely as you have rightly said so many bought care visas are already being cancelled some of which may be part of these stats automatically bringing down the levels of migration.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-june-2023/why-do-people-come-to-the-uk-to-work#dependants-of-work-visa-holders

Anyone who wishes to check these stats in detail can see how the chances of skilled worker visas outside healthcare for immigrants are so low, yet some of us think we are undercutting the locals or we are not hardworking enough. phew

LionInZion:
How so please?

MAs

For the year ending June 2023, there were 498,626 sponsored study visas granted to main applicants.

There were 321,101 work visas granted to main applicants in the year ending June 2023

Total = 819,727

Dependants

In the year ending June 2023, almost one-quarter (24%) of all sponsored study related visas granted were to dependants of students[b] (154,063)[/b]

In the year ending June 2023 there were 217,786 grants to dependants of people who had been granted a work visa.

Total = 371,489

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-june-2023/why-do-people-come-to-the-uk-to-study#dependants-of-sponsored-study-visa-holders

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-june-2023/why-do-people-come-to-the-uk-to-work#dependants-of-work-visa-holders

I've been hearing this narrative of more dependants than MA, and I keep wondering where it's coming from. Among the recent entrants to the UK that I know there are more singles than married. Am I missing something please?

Oh yes, you're missing something; it's called propaganda

Zahra29:
We've had these debates before so I'll try to keep it brief.

The IHS does not cover any of the other costs to the state such as education. I've listed some of them in a previous post.

In any case it is established that health and care workers comprise the biggest group of UK skilled workers, therefore there is a large % of immigrants that don't pay IHS, along with their families.

The government is not stupid and if their stats show that dependants outnumber main applicants (both students and care workers) and they recognise that majority of these dependants do not work or pay tax while consuming public services, that is part of the reason it has introduced restrictions to curb numbers.


And yes there are Brits as well who don't pay tax, but they are in the minority and the fact is they are citizens and by definition are entitled to certain benefits and leeways in their own country.

we are paying and subsidising them, are we not trying Aunty Zahra, no make us vex o council tax sef still dey, if na play stop am o lol

justwise:
How about single ones who are not married? Does British citizens pay to give birth? No, so the NHS spent all their resources on immigrants who came here purely to babies and use the British system.

Jokes apart I think some folks here don't just understand that everybody is subsidizing each other so those who hardly use the NHS are subsidizing those using it frequently, it's simple logic but this idea that as immigrants we are contributing less than the value we get is simply crap.

justwise:
ihs, NI and tax

ihs? they said when we give birth ihs money is exhausted don't count it among o

Zahra29:
The tax payer is not paying for all the bills of the children and family. it's not about public funds -it's other costs such as education, free school meals, health care, council services, nursery 15 hours, sometimes 30 hours in cases of financial hardship,other special services like if the council arranges a taxi to transport the children to their school , interpreter services for parents who don't understand English and so on. The average migrant family is larger than the average British family, many have 3 or 4 kids or more, so it's easy to see how the cost to the state can quickly mount up.

There have been arguments on this thread before on how many migrants truly access these services and it’s a matter of some subsidising for others which is always the norm anywhere. Interpreter services, free sch meals, transport haba,

Zahra29:
To add to this, the Home sec in his statement this week said that they estimate that around 75% of dependants do not work, but still make use of public services. That is part of the reason why they felt justified to restrict dependants, majority of whom they believe take more than they contribute, in other words the UK is doing them a favour.

I'm not saying that they are 100% right, but pointing out how the other side thinks and views things.

That estimate of 75% of dependents not working we all know is debatable along the lines of if they have little children they are caring for and the ability to work for how many hours. Secondly they don’t even have recourse to public funds so how are they a burden if the other applicant is taking care of the bills.

triplo3:
[b][/b]


How can you claim no one is doing anyone a favour when the immigration numbers demonstrates people are coming in droves? If it was a 50/50 business deal like you say, shouldn’t direction be in both ways or fairly stable. I don’t just mean from Naija (India, China, Pakistan etc. are on the list). The truth is people will move from areas of economic hardship to areas with more opportunities…just like Osmosis. When you come and you start paying tax in the new system, were you not paying tax in the previous location? What did you get in return? If it’s not a fair deal, people would stop coming and enjoy their extra “money”.

That said, I think immigration should be sustainable, otherwise we overload the system and we get the same “unworkable” system some of us were running away from. When last have you visited a GP or house-hunted? There’s no doubt in my mind this “tiny-Island” is under a lot of pressure and it needs to be released somehow. I don’t like the uncertainty of the immigration laws (they should be fairly stable so people can plan and not be stranded), but how many countries are viable alternatives? Maybe Canada, Australia, USA…be things May even be changing in these countries as well. In terms of voting or making a change, not sure the immigrant vote/lobby is significant enough to move the needle.

Las las, everyone go Dey alright.

How I wish we could get our acts right as a country, doesn’t even have to be el dorado, just back to 2015 economic outlook and the influx from Nigerians won’t be as bad. God punish APC for forcing middle class Nigerians to flee their country!

How you feel about your home country has nothing to do with the Uk, if you think they are doing you a favour and you’re overloading their system, then good for you. It’s a country with very critical people and they always ask questions about everything and motive the govt does. If that’s what we really do back home perhaps Nigeria will not be where it is. Even the Brits themselves are complaining I wonder when some of us became the govt mouth piece to think whatever they are currently doing is in the best interest of everyone. You have even admitted that it needs to be stable so people can plan, is that not what some of us have been saying here? So what’s the stress

kwakudtraveller:
This is a lazy way to address an argument. I’ve noticed that you always narrow every counter argument to us having an oppressed mindset. I’m curious to know what you have done outside of this forum to address this new policy or previous immigration policies. After all I started a petition which most of the people who complain here everyday refused to sign.

Oh really? I take that as a compliment, I accept my arguments are very lazy, thank you cos I must always agree with you. How politically active do you think I am in this country or I should reel out all the groups I am involved in making representations to the govt to please you and tell you how many cases I have been involved cos that’s the only way I can impress you. Chai

LionInZion:
Lol. My fear is if we continue to hold such views, someone like Suella will come to power one day and put a cap on the number of children immigrants can have; the number of sexual intercourses in a year and maybe even ban interracial marriages lol, and we'll then see the reality of George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four playing out in real life haha and we'd still have people saying it's the law we should accept it or keep shut.

It’s already happening, the government wants to even go ahead to bypass the supreme courts and international laws all in the name of reducing net migration. When there are even laws in this land that protects families especially children which is what some folks are going to use to challenge some of the recent policies. If people keep shut many people will just suffer for nothing all in the guise of we can’t control the situation.

LionInZion:
I quite agree with you that every responsible govt would prioritise its citizens interest over others.

That said, at bolded - this idea of 'keep shot or fvck off' that I've seen expressed here over and over isnt the best. There are several points I disagree with both for and against the new policy but it's not in my place to ask people to stop complaining and adapt.

If everyone holds that view, all asylum seekers would have been shipped off to Rwanda without anyone challenging the policy in court; several migrants would have been deported at POE for minute reasons without any immigration lawyer fighting for them.

I work in this industry and I have first hand experience of how this policy has rattled up so many people especially British citizens with foreign spouses. So it'll be unfair to ask people not to "rant" about it if they feel aggrieved. We react to issues differently and if your own way is to adapt and move on, someone else's might be to 'cry' about it, and each is within their right. And if you think the complaints here is too much, just pay a visit to Reddit.🙂

It's that oppressive mindset from Nigeria you see playing out here, because I can't control a situation I should lay low and just accept any bullshit that comes my way. It's funny how people on a visa in this country support policies that may come back to bite them in the long run. This is how some unwise immigrants in the US were supporting Trump until his policies started biting them, especially in bringing their families over into the US. No immigrant is a beggar in this country, the immigration system is like an hotel business where people pay per night to stay. Let everyone check their payslips at the end of the month and see how much they pay in taxes and NI for the system to continue to run. You are virtually paying for every day you live here and let no one come and tell us that immigrants contribute little or nothing else the PM will not be increasing visa fees and ihs fees to fund an increase in wages. The UK is in heavy debt and has already borrowed over 90% in comparison to its GDP. No one is doing anyone a favour here (which is what some folks think here), we are all in business both us and the people making the policies.

Zahra29:
Ah ok, so they made what they felt was a better choice for them. The OP made it sound like it was govt policies that landed them in care.

You clearly misunderstood me then, there are care homes who also bring in nurses to work. These ones were never international students and many people know this