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 Christianity Etc › Re: Give Your 'Tithes' And Offerings To The Less Fortunate In Church by Goshen360(m): 4:56pm On Mar 06, 2013 |
zoelife: @Goshen: Hmmmm. Brother, u keep missing my point. Can dis thread serve to clarify this issue? Why don't we meet on another medium, so we can better express. Or if u feel NL is it, see u tmao den.Are you talking to me or you meant to mention someone else? Lemme me be clear so I can attend to you. Thanks |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Give Your 'Tithes' And Offerings To The Less Fortunate In Church by Goshen360(m): 4:54pm On Mar 06, 2013 |
Goshen360: Quit parading and mixing the Old and the New wine to Christians. It's dangerous! The law is holy but it cannot make you holy. You also forget the strength\power of sin is the LAW (1 Corinthians 15:56). Hence, the law is holy but cannot make you holy because it has SIN in it. Malachi 3:8-10 is NOT instituted in Malachi, it was instituted under the law of Moses. Besides and again, Malachi is under the gospel of 'do this' and God will 'do that'. The Old Testament is fulfilled in the New Testament - please move your pulpit from 'mount sinai' where the law was given to 'mount zion' which is in Christ. Malachi threatens with curse, in the New Testament God blesses because of Christ's obedience and we're NOT giving\tithing IN ORDER to blessed but we give BECAUSE WE ARE ALREADY BLESSED by God. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes And Offerings by Goshen360(m): 4:02pm On Mar 06, 2013*. Modified: 6:38pm On Mar 07, 2013 |
Image123: "Apply" is used in the sense of being "useful". No scripture is useless but All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable, except you do not believe that the instances you are referring to is not scripture.Okay. Here to respond to your post as requested. Otherwise, I should have been done with this thread. First and as I often say, Image123 and co, you need to understand how to balance scriptures. Interpreting one scripture SHOULD NOT contradict the other scriptures - That's rightly dividing the word of truth. Yes, 'All' scriptures is given BUT not 'All' GIVEN scriptures are written to the whole family of God. The whole family of God from Genesis till now comprises of 3 groups (1 Corinthians 10:32). That's why you often read the phrase, "to the Jews FIRST...and then to the Gentiles". Now, if "All" GIVEN or WRITTEN scriptures applies to EVERY of the 3 groups AT THIS TIME AND DISPENSATION, then this scriptures below will be WRONG, King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.) For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Expanded Bible (EXB) (·Those who are not Jews [Gentiles] do not have the law, but when they ·freely [by nature; instinctively] do what the law commands, they ·are the law for themselves [or reveal their awareness of God’s law]. This is true even though they do not have the law [ the written law of Moses]. GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995) For example, whenever non-Jews who don't have laws from God do by nature the things that Moses' Teachings contain, they are a law to themselves even though they don't have any laws from God. Romans 2:14 This scripture clear says the GENTILES or NON-JEWS who are in God's family\kingdom DO NOT HAVE THE LAW OF MOSES, yet the law is written and part of the "All" scriptures that is given. If we, non-Jewish Christian do not have the law, that is, the laws of Moses was not written to us, how then is it part of the "All" scriptures that applies to Christians. The scriptures is very clear - it is whatsoever that was written afore hand, was written for our LEARNING, not for our APPLICATION. Image123: Where do you find the bolded in the quote? We can learn from others, release yourself from your pride. Like i said, we can learn from ants, and like Ola reminded us, Jesus told us to learn from lilies and grass and birds. Here is Matthew 23v23 again so that we are clear what was said. Observe the last phrase carefully.Yes sir, now and here is what I'm saying - We can LEARN from BUT the learning doesn't always translate to APPLICATION. Now, you warned me of 'private interpretation'. My brother Image123, you're the very one doing 'private interpretation' here. If not, you should have interpreted Matthew 23 in it proper context - that chapter first is NOT a stand alone and second, you cherry picked the audience in its proper context. Let me show you the context of the audience. First, like you said, Matthew 1:1, Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, Jesus SPECIFICALLY talked to his disciples and the multitudes in CORRECTING THE MULTITUDES & HIS DISCIPLES FROM THE ATTITUDES OF THE SCRIBES\PHARISEES and that correction ends in verse 12. Second, from verse 13 forward, Jesus began to address the SCRIBES AND PHARISEES. How can he (Christ) be CORRECTING the attitudes\characters of the scribes and pharisees to his disciples and STILL BE TELLING THEM TO DO THE VERY THINGS HE WAS WOOING THE SCRIBES AND PHARISEES FOR  In fact AND IN TRUTH, Matthew 23 when interpreted in it proper context from verse 1, Jesus NEVER authorized the multitudes and his disciples to TITHE according to Matthew 23:23. This is it, All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, [that] observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. KJV Expanded Bible (EXB) So you should ·obey [do; practice] and ·follow [keep; observe] whatever they tell you, but ·their lives are not good examples for you to follow [ do not follow their actions]. ·They tell you to do things, but they themselves don’t do them [ For they say but do not do]. GOD’S WORD Translation (GW) So be careful to do everything they tell you. But don’t follow their example, because they don’t practice what they preach. Matthew 23:3 Now, coming to Matthew 23:23, what we see the scribes and pharisees doing (ACTION) is tithe or tithing. Apply verse 3 that Jesus had already told the multitudes and his DISCIPLES that are Apostles of the early church. It therefore means the Apostles and multitudes are NOT TO FOLLOW THE ACTIONS OF THE SCRIBES AND PHARISEES, in this case according to verse 23, tithing is the action. "these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone". Image123, this ""these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone"" applies to the pronoun (YOU) in the same verse and that 'you' is SPECIFIED - scribes and pharisees. Scripture was VERY CLEAR when Jesus specifically spoke to the multitudes and disciples and so also, the 'you' was specified, it was the scribes and pharisees, NOT the disciples\multitudes. 2. I have shown you that the Gentile Christians (non-Jewish) do not have the law of Moses, it wasn't written to us and therefore are NOT to keep the law of Moses in its entirety. The problem I have with you and co is that, you guys still promote keeping the laws of Moses for Christians. The context of Matthew 23:23 still says, "matters of the law". If you think ""these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone"" applies to you as scribes and pharisees and NOT a disciple of Christ, keep doing BUT don't teach disciples of Christ to do it because Christ already told those who are his disciples NOT to DO according to the works of the scribes\pharisees in verse 3 and it was still a matter of the law of Moses because in verse 2, it says, the sit in MOSES' SEAT and verse 23 says, matters of the law. Image123: Don't you understand yet that Matthew 23v23 is also scriptures, and that the scriptures cannot be broken?Image123, you're still living under the law. Look again at that scripture. It says the law SHALL NOT PASS AWAY UNTIL ALL BE FULFILLED. C'mom mehnnn, the law (of Moses) is already fulfilled in Christ that means IT'S PASSED AWAY OR DONE AWAY WITH according to the words of Christ, now that Christ has fulfilled it. What Christ said there is very clear, until all of the laws (of Moses) is fulfilled, it remains; when\if it is fulfilled, it's pass away. The key here is UNTIL at time or period when it is fulfilled or will be fulfilled, then the law of Moses is PASSED AWAY. Tell me if Christ NEVER fulfilled the law of Moses already. King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.) For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995) Christ is the fulfillment of Moses' Teachings so that everyone who has faith may receive God's approval. New Living Translation (©2007) For Christ has already accomplished the purpose for which the law was given. As a result, all who believe in him are made right with God. Expanded Bible (EXB) [ For] Christ ·ended [is the end/culmination/fulfillment of] the law so that everyone who believes in him may ·be right with God [have righteousness]. Romans 10:4 Image123: Mal 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.Image123 my brother, quit parading and mixing the Old and the New wine to Christians. It's dangerous! The law is holy but it cannot make you holy. You also forget the strength of sin is the LAW. Hence, the law is holy but cannot make you holy because it has SIN in it. Malachi 3:8-10 is NOT instituted in Malachi, it was instituted under the law of Moses. Besides and again, Malachi is under the gospel of 'do this' and God will 'do that'. The Old Testament is fulfilled in the New Testament - please move your pulpit from 'mount sinai' where the law was given to 'mount zion' which is in Christ. Malachi threatens with curse, in the New Testament God blesses because of Christ's obedience and we're NOT giving\tithing IN ORDER to blessed but we give BECAUSE WE ARE ALREADY BLESSED by God. I don't wanna dwell too much on Malachi with you guys curses and threats but here's a puzzle for you and your tithe teachings friends. Since you've being tithing according to Malachi 3:10, Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. Under this promised of tithe and God said, "that there shall not be room enough to receive it.". Do you understand this promises at all? Since you've been tithing, I expect to see you don't have parking space anymore for blessings of cars, I expected by now, you should not have space (room) for gifts in your house. I expect that you don't have room (space) anymore for private jets, in fact, I expect to hear your name amongst the world's richest and blessed people by now. Why is that not happening if God said so? Or is God now a liar? After all, same God said "and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing". Friend, God's commanded tithe IS NOT WHAT IS PRACTICED TODAY AND HENCE, THE PROMISED BLESSING CANNOT FOLLOW. I'm tired typing for now. I will respond to the other aspect of the question on covenant later again when I have the time - This has been a long typing for me. Stay blessed bro because you're already blessed; you're not trying to be blessed by tithing. This is what the New Testament teaches. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes And Offerings by Goshen360(m): 4:14am On Mar 06, 2013 |
BARRISTERS: @ Goshen and Frosbel, cant you see that OLAADEGBU is just posting cartoons and have diverted from the real issue? he only needs you to build his tread, my advise is that you should abandon the tread for Goodness sake! NOW!Honestly, you're in the spirit, speaking the truth. I had thought of same thing you just said highlighted above. The only person I owe one more post on this thread is Image123. After replying Image123, I'm done here. Thanks bro |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Give Your 'Tithes' And Offerings To The Less Fortunate In Church by Goshen360(m): 9:44pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
^ Frosbel, I laf so tayyyyyyyyyyyyy my belle dey pain me o.  |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes And Offerings by Goshen360(m): 9:30pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
@ All tithe teachers.....make una see una oga as he dey demonstrate to collect tithe......Afraid dey catch me oo . You go fear this method of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo-Tgl4AqfE?hl=en |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Give Your 'Tithes' And Offerings To The Less Fortunate In Church by Goshen360(m): 9:26pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
O boy eeee, you need to watch this tithe video ooo . You go laf tire. You go fear action na.....because them wan collect tithe ni oooo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo-Tgl4AqfE?hl=en 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Stop Thief...the Tithe Belongs To God...by Bishop Dudley by Goshen360(m): 9:19pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
Chei, O boy, I can't stop laughing oooooooooooooooooo So na tithe man pikin wan collect na eim make all these demonstrations. Chei, church people, wahala dey ooooooooooo and rolling on the floor mehnn. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes And Offerings by Goshen360(m): 9:05pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
^^^ Oh, never know you wanted me to respond. I will do justice to it. I only read it and felt you're off the track to the question you asked me. You asked what the Old covenant was and I show you from scriptures. Anyway, I know say you dey take style dey receive Apostolic teachings but remember to bring your tithe to me personally o because I'm now the temple of the Living God teach you. Anyway, I'll attend to your post but not today anymore maybe tomorrow when I wake up. Okay.  |
| Christianity Etc › Re: What Is Deliverance? by Goshen360(m): 8:56pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
[quote author=i.chuka]Lol So if someone(a Christain)have headache or fever that's not attributed to the devil or demons,then where is it(headache/fever)from? Is it from God? Is God the originator of some kind of sickness in the lifes of His children? If you say its not from God or the devil then where is it(sickness)from? Though, these not what my last post was even talking about.but let's start from here.[/quote]Brother, no let people catch you with these things you dey talk o, say na demon\devils dey cause headaches Okay, headache depending on the type is caused by the following, 1. The effects of alcohol on blood vessels 2. Severe cold 3. Stress 4. Improper ways of been woken up from sleep etc etc Causes of typhoid (fever) among many includes infection with the bacteria from contaminated food and water. Abi you also want us to talk about broken legs or arms etc etc. Abi you want to tell us if I'm having headache, na demon dey do me There're demonic manifestation with examples of 'similar' cases from scriptures and when you see such, you'll know it. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: What Is Deliverance? by Goshen360(m): 7:22pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
nlMediator: 1. A christian has been delivered from sickness. Can a christian fall sick?This question carries two sides. 1. A christian has been delivered from sickness....That is, If the 'sickness' is in question is demon inflicted in the first place or caused by demons. Not all sickness needs deliverance in order to go or be cured. We need to understand those Jesus healed or cured their sickness were not Christians yet. Hence, it is okay to heal the sick, cast OUT demons out of those who are not Christians. New American Standard Bible (©1995) And there was a woman who for eighteen years had had a sickness caused by a spirit; and she was bent double, and could not straighten up at all. - Luke 13:11 2. Can a christian fall sick? ....simple answer, YES! But will all sickness need deliverance?....simple answer, NO! Is all sickness caused by devil or demons? .....the simple answer is NO! nlMediator: 2. Can a christian be oppressed in the sense of an evil spirit dwelling in his body or soul (not spirit)?Looking from scriptures, I DO NOT think a 'Christian' can be OPPRESSED in a sense of evil spirit DWELLING IN THE BODY OR SOUL. If your question was, if a Christian can be HARASSED or OPPRESSED from the OUTSIDE\EXTERNAL, that would have YES, because a Christian can be harassed or oppressed from the OUTSIDE by demons\devils BUT not DWELLING IN HIS BODY OR SOUL.....because scripture says, the BODY is the temple of the Holy Spirit and when we become Christians, we're given the MIND of Christ (Philippians 2:5, KJV) which requires constant renewal in the word of God. nlMediator: 3. Does the gift of discerning of spirits operate in the church (among christians) or is it given only for addressing needs of non-christians?Gift of discerning is for within the church and outside the church. But remember, not all who attend worship places are Christians. An unbeliever can come worship among Christians also. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: What Is Deliverance? by Goshen360(m): 6:51pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
nlMediator: In other words, you accept that the man here needed deliverance? Because that's the only logical conclusion from your answer. So, why the argument that the christian does not need deliverance? Or you think deliverance from oppression is not deliverance and that deliverance can only be used in the case of possession?Brother, my language is very clear. It is okay to do deliverance for whoever if such person have not truly come to Christ and accepted the gift of salvation and such becomes a NEW creation. In the new creature, the life of Christ is transfered to the believer and the light begins to shine in and through him. Somebody can be going to church for years without accepting the gift of salvation. The story of this man is very clear - he was oppressed because perhaps he lack knowledge of God's word. He WASN'T POSSESSED. He was harassed from the OUTSIDE, not from INSIDE. If he is truly a Christian, I can't judge him in that faith, he is harassed, NOT possessed. You know the various levels of demons operating right - possessing (Mark 5:15) and oppressing (Acts 10:38). Before a person becomes Christian, if deliverance is conducted for such, no problem but not in all case; no problem. When such is delivered and such person comes to Christ and accepted the gift of salvation with the seal of Holy Spirit, the devil and demons cannot POSSESS such person anymore because the Holy Spirit have taken over. Now, it is possible such is harassed and attempted by demons, BUT please, such is NOT being delivered again because he was already delivered. From scriptures, what that person need to do is RESIST the devil and he will flee. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: What Is Deliverance? by Goshen360(m): 6:28pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
[quote author=i.chuka]Lol Bro,so after all these many many scriptural quotes and interpretations,you are still saying a Christain don't need deliverance or what is actually your point here? If Someone is cured(delivered and is now a Christain) from malaria/typhoid fever(demons) is he(a Christain) now completely free from future sickness? Bro,christains no dey fall sick? As it is physically,it,s also applicable spiritually. Expect you are saying that a Christain don't take drugs(which is a kind of deliverance)[/quote]God! Is it you saying this? Are you implying ALL sickness is caused by demons or devils IN A CHRISTIAN? So if I have headache, it is demon or devil making me have headache? If a Christian have typhoid, is that caused by the devil or demons? As matter of fact, what is the difference between falling sick and being possessed by demons? And what is the Christian being delivered FROM? waiting from an answer please |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes And Offerings by Goshen360(m): 6:13pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
Image123: really funny stuff but guys, guys, let's not act like them, two wrongs don't make a right.That's why I love you bro.....Na me give 1 'like' o. I love you pass 'them' You know naw, that kind thing. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Give Your 'Tithes' And Offerings To The Less Fortunate In Church by Goshen360(m): 6:01pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
OLAADEGBU: You say Non? Now you see how you and your blind guides often shoot over the bar when it comes to simple things in the Scriptures.Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes and my laws - Genesis 26:5 You think you can fool us here? Huh. What is the VOICE that Abraham obeyed? What is the commandments, statutes and laws he obeyed? You need to find out or tell us because the last time I checked, God VOICES, COMMANDMENTS, STATUTES AND LAWS ARE VERY SPECIFIC in scriptures. You will need to show us where God SPECIFICALLY told Abraham to TITHE or where Abraham was obeying the commandments\laws\statutes\voice of God to tithe. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Give Your 'Tithes' And Offerings To The Less Fortunate In Church by Goshen360(m): 5:51pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
Bidam: CAN YOU SEE HOW YOU TWIST AND DISTORT SCRIPTURES? WHO TOLD YOU THE HOLY SPIRIT WAS NOT UPON ISAIAH,ELIJAH.MALACHI, JOHN THE BAPTIST, DAVID ETC..EVEN JESUS APPEARED IN THE OT..SO WHAT ARE YOU YAPPING ABOUT? GOD'S WORDS ARE ETERNAL THEY NEVER CHANGE..THE ONLY CHANGE HE REQUIRES WAS THE HEART OF MEN...AND THAT WAS WHAT CHRIST CAME TO FUFILL..DNT READ THE BIBLE UPSIDE DOWN ABEG..THE GOSPEL OF JESUS IS SIMPLE AND EASY TO FOLLOW. I can't stop laughing at you. When and where did I say the Holy Spirit wasn't upon Isaiah and the prophets? Huh, Where? At least, people are reading our post and they know who had been twisting scriptures between you and I. I said, God spoke THROUGH them at that time and dispensation in which all they said was pointing to Christ. NOW, in this end time according to the Hebrews 1:1-2, God is speaking to US, the church because this is the dispensation of the church and of Grace; God is speaking to US IN\BY Christ. This is the Christ that the prophets and the law spoke about, he has come NOW, NO MORE LISTENING TO THE PROPHETS AND THE LAW. If you can't comprehend simple statement I'm making here, how do you comprehend scriptures you claim to read. Anyway, I know say na copy and paste job you sabi pass No worry, you still be my brother....tithe or no tithe. Nothing do you. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Give Your 'Tithes' And Offerings To The Less Fortunate In Church by Goshen360(m): 5:19pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
Bidam: SO NA FOR THE CROSS YOUR BIBLE END. well my bible says Christ has gone beyond thatYou know the more you talk, the more you expose yourself. Your very verse quoted says God is NOW speaking to US in His Son......NOT IN THE PROPHETS AND THE FATHERS IN THOSE DAYS OR IN THE PAST. Can you see for yourself? What God spoken to them THEN was for that dispensation. God speak to US, the church NOW IN or BY Christ. Christ NEVER TAUGHT THE APOSTLES TO TITHE - HE SAID, GIVE AND IT SHALL BE GIVEN TO YOU.... |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Give Your 'Tithes' And Offerings To The Less Fortunate In Church by Goshen360(m): 5:05pm On Mar 05, 2013*. Modified: 5:25pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
christemmbassey: free bible school, thank you Jesus, we came as berean christians you are turning us into better Pauls, filling us with divine nourishments from the Spirit tro your son Goshen360. @bidam, ola et al, i know say instead of una to come eat better food una de busy googling malachi 3 to copy and paste here,, after una come carry face like say God cheat una.Thank you brother and man of God. Another FREE Bible School tips online - Very qucik and sharp sharp. The whole Bible is dividing into the following dispensation in which God operated. Just a short one here. I might or might not give bible reference. 1. The Pre-law dispensation: Genesis 1 - Exodus 19 2. The dispensation of the law (of Moses) and the prophets: Exodus 20 - Acts 1. That is why you will read scriptures like Galatians 4:4 because Christ was still under the law of Moses, subject to the law in order to fulfill it, hereby bringing it to completion of the purpose and intent the law was given. New International Version (©1984) But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, New Living Translation (©2007) But when the right time came, God sent his Son, born of a woman, subject to the law. 3. The dispensation of Grace and the Church: Acts 2 - Revelation. Under this dispensation, God USED the law and the prophets to LEAD people to Christ, for all the law and prophets were all pointing to Christ (Luke 24:27). Now, that Christ has come, God is NOW speaking to us THROUGH CHRIST AND CHRIST ALONE. (Hebrews 1:1-2). |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Give Your 'Tithes' And Offerings To The Less Fortunate In Church by Goshen360(m): 4:44pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
brainpulse: How did He know He had to pay One tenth of the spoils, and what law was He obeying, since you guys called it Law?We NEVER called it a law - we said it was a free will giving not commanded neither based on obeying any law of God because the law was not in effect then. The law was binding, free will is not binding on all. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Give Your 'Tithes' And Offerings To The Less Fortunate In Church by Goshen360(m): 4:41pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
OLAADEGBU: Before I answer your sanctimonious question can you help your brothers out in answering the kweshun I asked them? The kweshun was:Why then are you making Abraham tithe A LAW FOR CHRISTIANS IF HE DIDN'T KEEP ANY 2 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: What Is Deliverance? by Goshen360(m): 4:34pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
Yooguyz: @Goshen your posts are bible based i love them! How has your day been?Thank you my brother. That's the trick used against weak Christians. Christians who don't know their left from right - telling them one baba in the village is stealing their success and destiny. I know the riches and blessedness of believers IN CHRIST and that's what I teach Christians. GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995) and God has made you complete in Christ. Christ is in charge of every ruler and authority. King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: Colossians 2:10 |
| Christianity Etc › Re: What Is Deliverance? by Goshen360(m): 4:26pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
nlMediator: On your questions about discerning of spirits, I'll recount this story by Kenneth Hagin. He went to preach - I believe it was in Oregon - in the late 1950s. A little while before that, Jesus had appeared to him to tell him that the gift of discerning of spirits would start manifesting in his ministry. So, while ministering in Oregon, one man came up for prayers. He recounted his problem. Hagin asked him if he was a christian. He said he was saved and had received the in-filling of the Holy Spirit. After praying for the man, Hagin asked him to go and sit down. He sat down on the front row. While Hagin was ministering to others, he looked in the man's direction and saw a monkey-like creature - an evil spirit - sitting or standing on the man's head with his hands in a vice-like fashion. Hagin called the man to come up again. He then commanded the evil spirit to leave. The evil spirit responded by saying that he guessed he'd have to leave if Hagin wants him to, but that he did not want to. Hagin insisted that the spirit leave. People in the church were listening to what Hagin was saying but were not seeing the spirit. The spirit left and the man felt free - physically. I think he had a kind of mental problem. Hagin said 14 years later when he saw the man, he was still free.Well, I cannot verify this story but I can verify scriptures. The clear point in this story is the man was harrassed, tormented and oppressed NOT POSSESSED. To be harrassed, tormented and oppressed are EXTERNAL while to be possessed is INTERNAL. Like the story says, he saw the demon OUTSIDE the man's body not INSIDE the man. My point is very clear, NO DEMONS CAN LIVE INSIDE A CHRISTIAN AT THE PERFECT GIFT OF SALVATION. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: What Is Deliverance? by Goshen360(m): 4:15pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
nlMediator: "Keep going for deliverance" and "going for deliverance" are 2 different things. The issue is whether a christian can ever at any point be demonized and therefore in need of deliverance. Do you think that's a possibility at all? You misunderstood the bolded portion. I was saying that demons were cast out of people often in the early church before they received Jesus into their lives. Today, we ask people to receive Jesus often without casting out the devils first. When such people receive Jesus, do the demons immediately disappear or should these new christians be prayed for to get the demons out of them? In addition, for christians that for whatever reason are not strong in the Lord, even though they have been saved for years, can demons attach themselves to those christians either through their weakness OR because of wrong associations or actions (engaging in sexual perversion, joining the occult, etc)? What I see some of you say is that people are constantly going for deliverance but that does not address the crucial question.There's difference between operating under flesh - allowing your flesh to control you and such person falling into perversion etc. That is as a result of not dying to self. It is different from being possessed of devils. I have never seen a Christians in scriptures that have the anointing of the Spirit of God still being possessed of demons. 3,000 were saved on Pentecost, Peter didn't conduct deliverance for them before they gave their lives to Christ according to you. My point is, those who need deliverance from demon possession or whatever have not truly come to Christ. When they do, Christ lives in them BY THE HOLY SPIRIT. It is okay to conduct deliverance for whoever needs it PRIOR to accepting Christ. One the process of salvation is completed in a person, the Holy Spirit takes over such life and the body becomes the temple of the Holy Spirit and we know, darkness and light cannot exist at the same time. I'm for deliverance for unbelievers, NOT for believers or Christians - It's an insult to the finished work of Christ and the blood that speaks better things. |
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