₦airaland Forum

@ OP,

What exactly did you need answers from Christian to? All I read was accusing Christians of using some techniques and brainwashing to convert people. What exactly do you need an answer to? I will attend to your question when I wake up, I know you guys will also be sleeping by now. When you guys are awake, we will still be sleeping in this part of the world. Thank you.

Zikkyy: I agree with you on this one. Oga Goshen, oya defend ya self. were you there when the anointing took place

truthislight: whose God Anoint who?

Were you there when the anointing took place?

By their fruit we shall know them?

MOG

Two of una dey joke abi? Me, I will not touch God's anointed o

SNCOQ3: Thanks for the link. I have to take a break until the thread is sanitized by a moderator. It makes me sick.

Take your time bro....I will soon go off the computer also. We might need to continue tomorrow. Go take a rest and enjoy God's gift of sleep/rest in the body.

patriot2: chill

Respect yourself or you will be reported and probably with a suggestion to be banned. We are not playing here. There is time for everything and besides, this is not the place for such dirty stuffs please. I have appealed to you in a reasonable way. Thank you.

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Do you want to be reported to the moderators

SNCOQ3: pls, would you post the link on the one you had with Delafruita? I think i need to see it.

Click Here

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What the heck is that ugly site you are adding to your quoting me?

^^^
Okay let's get at it now. Let me start by showing "gap" did NOT exist between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

The bible says, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth".

This is an "OPENING" statement in which the rest of the creation account tells the "process" by which the heavens and the earth was created. How did I know this?

First, the heavens; note: it's in plural but some translations have it singular form - the plural form is most correct translations because if we take the singular form, it will mean the bible is referring to the heaven as in the abode place of God but since it is about the account of creation of "our" heavens, which man can explore, then the plural form makes most correct and because the same accounts later referred to two places heavens - the heaven called sky and the heaven where the sun, moon and stars were fixed. There is nowhere in the scriptures or Jesus ever making any reference to any gap in most of his reference to the beginning.

Genesis 1:2, "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

This verse describes the "CONDITION" of the earth (in water form) at its initial creation. The gap theory says the earth "became" without form and void due to Lucifer's sin and the earth was in chaotic state and divine judgment brought "darkness" that was upon the face of the earth. They use a verse from the book of Isaiah to justify their claim. When we get to the verse from Isaiah, we will see clearly that it wasn't the "intention" of God to leave the earth "formless and void or empty", he created it to be inhabited.

So where did darkness came from? was it as a result of judgment for Lucifer's sin? Certainly NOT. God himself gave us the answer where the darkness came from in the book of Job and darkness in this context does not signify judgment/evil, it is simply an absence of light. If darkness represents judgment or evil, one will expect God to simply judge that darkness/evil rather than saying "let there be light" in Gen 1:3. Psalms 104:19-24 teaches that darkness is not always a symbol of evil unless the context permits. In Genesis 1:2 that darkness is NOT as a result of divine judgment from Lucifer's sin but the was the way the earth was initially created and this we read in the book of Job 38:1,4-9 and emphasis on verse 9. This is the answer to the darkness in Genesis 1:2

Lastly, how did God removed the formlessness and the voidness/emptiness in Genesis 1:2 since we have seen how God removed the darkness. God worked through 6 days of creation to do that. In the first 3 days, what you see God do is GIVE "form" to remove the formlessness and in day 4-6, what you study is God "filled" in order to remove the voidness or emptiness.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I submit to you, there is no Gap whatsoever in between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 and we must reject such heresy.

danwo: ^^^^^

ROTFL

Bros, nothing "son of man" no go see finish for this nairaland o.

obadiah777: KJV

I just quoted KJV to you from where Jesus himself said they were created mAle (not male[b]S[/b]) and female (not female[b]S[/b])

obadiah777: bruh this is not a matter of verse. this is a matter of sequence. you have to read the KJV Genesis chapter 1 and 2. and pay attention to the sequence. [size=20pt]in chapter 1 he had created people, both "mEn" and "womEn" and told them to subdue the earth.[/size] the beginning of chapter 2 he had already created all THE HOSTS OF HEAVEN. heaven is the garden of eden. all the hosts means everything that is supposed to inhabit it has been created. then further down towards the end of chapter 2 is when he makes Adam a suitable woman with his intelligence. study the sequence. [size=20pt]this is not a matter of quote me a verse.[/size]

My brother, is it too difficult for you to show who these mEn are? and who these womEn are as it contradicts the words of Christ. And if it is NOT a matter of showing or quoting a verse, then I "assume" you are not fit to handle the word of truth.

~Am sorry, this thread may be over then~

[size=20pt]Who is lying? Jesus (who was in the beginning with God, John 1:1) or Obadiah777[/size]

Matthew 19:4

New International Version (©1984)
"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE,

New Living Translation (©2007)
"Haven't you read the Scriptures?" Jesus replied. "They record that from the beginning 'God made them male and female.'

English Standard Version (©2001)
He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female,

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Jesus answered, "Haven't you read that the Creator made them male and female in the beginning

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And he answered and said unto them, Have you not read, that he who made them at the beginning made them male and female,

SOMEBODY PLEASE HELP ME OUT......I CAN'T SEE WHERE JESUS SAID, THEY WERE CREATED mEn/maleS AND womEn/femaleS. Abi my eyes don dey read double portion ni?

SNCOQ3: * What i know about Gap theory is that their's a "gap" between Gen 1:1 - Gen 1:2. otherwise, how do you account for pre-historic creatures like dinasaurs

All I want you to do is prove WITH SCRIPTURES that gap indeed exist between Gen.1:1 and Gen.1:2. When the language of time interval occurs in the OT, you will often read words such as, "in the process of time". By this, the scriptures intends a certain time interval but the bible doesn't say that in Gen. 1:1-2.

I, on the other hand intends to show/prove that gap didn't exist and the "without form and void"/darkness" in Genesis 1:2 is NOT as a result of divine judgment as a result of Lucifer's sin. All we have to do is use scripture to explain scriptures.

plappville: Ur hair is ur headtie! But its more decent to cover it when comunicating with God. Thats my own opinion anyway.

But it is not a criteria to answered prayers. Thank God it is "your own opinion" anyway. lolz

SNCOQ3: Gen 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
Gen 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

The bolded explains why we have rainfall, snow, thunderstorm...my brother "firmament" na sky with cloud

I agree with you what firmament means. What we are saying here is the proved of Gap theory which you supported and the pre-adamic world that happened between Genesis 1:1-2. I believe this is where your gap theory lies. This is what we want to focus on.

Stop using just words to say God created a nation of people called Adam, kindly use scriptures to show us how One man Adam means many people. please show us from scriptures

obadiah777: genesis 2 vs 20 but for Adam there was not found a helper suitable for him meaning out of all the women already formed, none was suitable for him

And where in the scriptures did God create MANY WOMEN or MANY WOMEN ALREADY FORMED? Do you mind showing us?

SNCOQ3: beginning is a function of time.

I believe "firmament" means sky.

Now, if Genesis 1:1, beginning is talking about time when God created heavens and earth, and there is gap between verse 1 and 2, then it means Genesis 1:1 is still NOT telling us the MAIN beginning, it will mean it is telling us of a second beginning.

Two, if the heaven and earth are already created in Gen. 1:1, the word to be used by the writer for "MAKING" the heaven and earth again (assuming it was made and fell into chao and darkness due to the sin of lucifer) should be such words as "RE-MADE", "RE-FORMED" and RE-CREATE" but such words are missing in verse 7 and 10.

How do you explain that?

[quote author=Mr_Anony]@Goshen et al, The bible says nothing about the age of the earth. It is people who calculate it counting from the genealogies from Adam.

Have you ever considered this: Assuming we didn't have the old testament i.e. the books of the old testament were lost to us and all we had as the beginning was John 1:1, we would probably have been here arguing how the world couldn't have been much older than 2000 years old. Think about that for a minute if you may.[/quote]Yes, the bible didn't tell the age of the earth. But it is more damaging that people say what the bible didn't say - talking about the gap theory and that the chaos and darkness in Genesis 1:2 was as a result of divine judgment when lucifer sinned and that is why we have God's creation only starting from Gen. 1:3. This is outright heresy and damaging to the scriptures. I want to prove line by line with scriptures that the darkness in Gen. 1:2 is NOT a divine judgment on the earth when lucifer sinned and there is NO gap whatsoever between Gen. 1:1-2.

You remember this thread came as a result of what Delafruita was doing in the other thread - spreading heresy using the bible. I only stand to defend the truth.

danwo: @Goshen360

Whilst we are waiting for them to come home to roost

I'll like along with your question too, counter ask in relation to Hebrews 1:10 below,

that the foundation in that verse is referring to which earth or at which stage or period

"And, you, Lord, in the beginning have laid the foundation of the earth;

and the heavens are the works of your hands:"

- Hebrews 1:10 KJV

This beginning is very clear as the context parallels with "the earth and heavens". This is the beginning of Genesis 1:1 being referred to here. We will even get to the discussion as we go along. I started with the "in the beginning" and we will move gradually.

SNCOQ3: beginning of time - when God created time and space; Call it the big b.ang if you like

Now you agree that the beginning means when God created heaven (space), earth (matter) and in the beginning means time right?

Now, if God created heaven and earth already in verse 1, What heavens is this verse talking about if the same verse later called the "firmament" heaven in verse 8 and why did God called the dry land, earth again in verse 10?

Okay, here we go another. Obadiah777 come defend your statement here and don't derail the other thread.

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Okay am not gonna take this any more. Am opening another thread for us to discuss this.

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Yeah brother but your people that wants to discuss this are not showing up o, I no see Delafruita and SNCOQ3 viewing this thread. Make them no let this tension wey dey my body cool down o. . Abeg, take your sit in the front row and watch.

SNCOQ3: We're waiting sir... I am for gap theory.

Okay....seems Delafruita has run away. Let me take it up with you but I don't just want him come and take us in circle and in circle.

Now, let's start with Genesis 1:1

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"

The first question is, what "beginning" is this? What do you understand by the "beginning" of Genesis 1:1?

Let's deal with this question first and we kick off from there.

Okay, I changed my mind. Let me explain that scriptures since I don't want you get away with your "quack" bible knowledge....

In the days of his flesh. That is, during his entire life on earth as referenced by same author of Hebrews in Heb. 2:14–15. If the same author in 2:14-15 says "by his death", how will he mean that Christ didn't die in Heb. 5:7?

offered up prayers. The Gospels record many prayers of Jesus (esp. at Gethsemane; see Luke 22:39–46). supplications (Gk. hiketēria). A rare word in the NT and Septuagint, it indicates a submissive request (esp. in prayer).

with loud cries and tears. Readers would first recall Jesus’ agonizing prayer in Gethsemane (Luke 22:44), but the broad time reference, “in the days of his flesh,” suggests that Jesus’ earthly prayers were constantly heartfelt, earnest, and accompanied by tears.

able to save him from death. The author, clearly aware of the reality of Jesus’ death as written in Heb. 9:11–14 and also speaks of Jesus’ resurrection as his being saved "from" or “out of" (Gk. ek) death, Heb. 13:20.

he was heard. This is reference to the fact that He (Christ) was resurrected out of death. Before He died, Christ prayed for this, and God answered by raising Him from the dead - this is what is meant by "who is able to save him from death, not the bodily or physical death. Out of death here does not mean that Christ did not enter into death or suffer death. Even as Son of God, it was appropriate that, having been made human, Jesus submitted to the Father and waited on the Father’s answer (Luke 22:42).

Because of his reverence (Gk. eulabeia) describes a reverential regard or fear in the presence of God (see Prov. 28:14; Heb. 12:28). Jesus’ piety formed the basis for his prayers being answered; and now he stands to intercede for, and help, every Christian (Heb. 4:16; Rom. 8:34).

Other scriptures that talked about the death of Christ are: Romans 8:34, 14:9; Galatians 2:21; 1 Peter 3:18.....I have given more than 2 scriptures. From the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses, the truth is established. Thank you.

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Like I said, and will admit it, I am not a scientist and cannot prove the age of the earth but I can definitely prove there was no gap whatsoever and there is nothing like pre-adamic world. You may sit back and watch how I deal with this our brother, Delafruita on this subject.

obadiah777: i dey run ooooooo make you no open fowl yansh

Not at all, I no go open your "fowl" yansh.....we will only discuss the issue. You are mistaken Genesis 1 and 2. Let's open another thread to discuss it and not to derail this thread. We have already dealt with the issue of how Cain got his wife. So the OP should search this forum and get the answers. I will soon open thread for us to discuss it, let me finish what am doing. I will be brb.

obadiah777: Thanks alot. Goshen peddles archaic church doctrines on this forum. Goshen does not understand the bible. he regurgitates what he has been taught by pastor tithes and reverend offering.

@ you in tongues.

Dont worry....I will soon open another thread for you soon to discuss this. Wait for me, I dey come.

Delafruita: its not strange.its an argument that has been put forward often and it does make sense when you study genesis especially the part about "male and female created he them"

"Male and female created he them" .....do you want the bible to say "male and female created he him? Male and female is simply refering to Adam and Eve. You people kind of misunderstand Gen. chapter one and two, I guess you are assuming two creation accounts?

@ danwo,

Do you want to enter this discussion? If Yes, then clearly identify where you stand.

Delafruita: i hope you know that attempting to disprove the gap theory only opens up the bible to ridicule.its ridiculous to expect that the earth is just 6000+ years old.if you disprove the gap theory,you have to provide an explanation for the age of the earth

Whatever age the earth maybe.....I am not a scientist. It is even more ridiculous to say such things that the bible didn't say such as gap theory between Genesis 1:1-2 and even the pre-adamic age. Let's prove it from the scriptures that there was indeed a gap and pre-adamic world. I don't like stories

obadiah777: [size=20pt]Adam is people.[/size] i cant give you scriptural verse. i would have to quote the whole of Genesis 1 and 2 chapters. so i suggest you study those 2 chapters slowly and thoroughly.

This is STRANGE! I guess am DONE talking with you bro.