₦airaland Forum

^^^

Very true. Off course we aren't talking about deliverance ministry that does deliverance before a person experience new birth in Christ. We are talking about already saved believer still being possessed by demons.

musKeeto: And this sin against the Holy Spirit? Is it still a mystery or as the Holy Spirit revealed it to anyone?
Used to be a question that puzzled most of the youth members at my church..

People have stipulated many things out of this sin against the Holy Spirit. Let's look all through the scriptures and see if this sin is the rejection of Christ and/or blasphemy against Christ. Certain not! Peter denied Christ "out" of fear and ignorance. Saul who later became Paul persecuted Christ and the Church in his ignorance but was later forgiven. To rightly discern the sin against the Holy Spirit is to interpret what it is in the light of other relevant scriptures, hence we contradict scriptures. I stand to say that ALL BELIEVERS AND CHRISTIANS WHO BELIEVE IN THE FINISHED WORKS OF THE CROSS don't commit this sin against the Holy Ghost. The context itself says all sins against the son of man shall be forgiven and other scriptures says other sins shall be forgiven and are forgiven.

Joagbaje: A christian cannot be possessed of demons, but he can be demonized , he opens the door to the enemy.

Okay. Agreed that a Christian cannot be possessed of demons but demonized. How do you mean by being demonized? And what is the difference btw being demonized and being possessed by demon(s)? You can clarify for purpose of others who are following this thread.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]I am curious about the possibility of sin, repentance and forgiveness in the world to come[/quote]Not possible for those who have believed in Christ because there will be no more sin in that world. The "forgiveness" in world to come is only referred to sin against the Holy Spirit.

[quote author=petres_007]Interesting topic there, sir!

Here's how I normally start out discussing topics like this. First I state my position (which I firmly believe is the bible's and leaves no room for private opinions or interpretations), then I state why I've taken up this position regarding this matter.

My position - Christians cannot have demons. The Holy Spirit and demons cannot be in a particular vessel at the same time.

Scripture backup - well, there are no biblical examples of a demon-possessed Christian. None that I know of at least. I'd be happy to be pointed to one or two.

* Just as an aside: abeg, what's the meaning of the term "spirit-filled Christian"? Isn't that tautology (make una no vex o, I no know book so well)? My point is; can there be a Christian not filled with the Spirit? Isn't the promise of the Spirit the major privilege believers under the new have that those under the old didn't? Doesn't the scripture say "if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his" (Rom 8:9)? [/quote]To believe and to have the Holy Spirit are two different things. It is possible to have them same day but not at the same time for one must first believe first then have the indwell of the Holy Spirit. I acknowledge your contribution as to you don't believe a Christian can be possessed with demons. Nice sayings there. Take a look at this verse:

"Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" he asked them. "No," they replied, "we haven't even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." Acts 19:2 (NLT)

Ptolomeus: Excellent thread, my friend!
It is contradictory that the vast majority of the "possessed" are just Christians...
The question that arises is this: the Christian God does not protect its devotees? The Christian god has no power to care for their children from the dangers of Satan?
I never understood that.
I do not understand why a God so powerful, is fighting for thousands of years against Satan, unable to overcome ...
I suitable to send a fraternal embrace, dear friend!

The case is not as you understand it my friend. You see, we have the "immatures" in Christ who are constantly being spoon fed and these are referred to those who are tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine. The bible also say, an heir when he a child is not different or better than a slave. What are we saying? Many Christian do not know and understand their right/priviledges in Christ hence, they succumb to anything. In such case, the bible says, bear the burden of one another. The issue is not the true believers verses Satan. The issue is the true church still fighting the false church. Hence, the efforts of the faithful "fews" that the bible talked about is being sabotaged.

What do you have to say about this topic though?

[quote author=Mr_Anony]The exact same thing I am asking. This issue has caught my interest.[/quote]What has caught your interest? "world to come" or what?

Pastor AIO: Oops, I realize that the part about polygamy is within the scope of your original title about twisting the scriptures. I apologise. I thought you were addressing ATMC question with it.

Sorry o!

Nope, am doing my own twisted scriptures also and at the same time refuting it. I have many twisted scriptures to deal with but one at a time as God gives me the Grace.

Pastor AIO: Perhaps we haven't asked the question intelligibly enough. I believe that what ATMC is asking is that in order for Jesus to make reference to a forgiveness (or lack of it for a specific sin) in the[b] World to come[/b] (by which I believe she understands the world after one has died) does that mean that there is a possibility for forgiveness of sins for the deceased. This is practised by the Roman Catholics and the Mormons.

We know as you have affirmed that there is 'forgiveness of all kinds of sins prior to believing in Christ and yielding to the conviction of the Holy spirit'. But if there is no forgiveness for a specific sin, ie the sin against the holy spirit, in the World to come then is there forgiveness of other sins in the world to come? I can't speak for ATMC but I believe that is what she is asking. If not then I apologise to her, yet me myself I've taken interest in the issue and would like to know whether you think there is forgiveness of other sins, apart from sin against the holy spirit, in the world to come.

Okay. I understand the question in another dimension now. I think there is forgiveness of other sin aside sin against the Holy Spirit in the world to come in the sense that, such sin, not against the Holy Spirit are already forgiven in this world or had already be forgiven such soul even before death and such person is wearing the righteousness of Christ. So the point of "in the world to come" is not mentioned as to sin not against the Holy Spirit. Only sin against the Holy Spirit is made reference to as regards "world to come" because same context say, any sin and blasphemy against Christ (son of man) will be forgiven.

God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. 2 Cor 5:21 (NIV)

For he has made him, who knew no sin, to be sin for us; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. (KJV)

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2 Cor. 3:17 Kjv

Now by "the Lord" is meant the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, freedom is enjoyed. (Weymouth New Testament)

So "where" the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty/freedom being enjoy. So if the Spirit of the Lord "indwells a believer (wherever the Spirit is...mined added), can such believer still be possessed by demons and go for deliverance sessions?

^^^
Ohhh, thank you my brother. E be like say I don dey chop too much eba,lolz. Never thought of it that way. Thank you.

Twisted Scriptures:

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Genesis 3:15 Kjv

I will make you and the woman hostile toward each other. I will make your descendant[b]s[/b] and her descendant hostile toward each other. He will crush your head, and you will bruise his heel. (GWT)

Revelation 12:17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring--those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

Many Pentecostal oneness sects use this verse to promote the serpent seed theory. William Branham, a faith healing evangelist of the 1940s, taught that Eve's sin in the garden was an illicit sexual affair with the serpent, resulting in her pregnancy. Such teachings and twisting of God's word is not found in other references in the bible.

The serpent's seed was Cain and his descendants are unscriptural. Scripture is very clear and consistent that the first sin was not sexual and no where is it mentioned as such in the scripture but rather consisted of Adam's disobedience to God's command not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil - Genesis 2:16-17.

Twisted Scriptures:

And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah. Genesis 4:19 Kjv

Lamech married two women, one named Adah and the other Zillah. (NIV)

Mormons cite this verse and their own scriptures (Doctrines and Covenants, Section 132) in order to justify polygamy. Polygamy, however came into existence only after the fall in the garden. The creation mandate directs that a man shall be joined to one wife - Genesis 2:24 and also confirmed by Jesus Christ himself. While there are examples of polygamy in the OT such as 2 Sam. 5:13; 1 Kings 11:3, they did not receive God's approval. Instead, God in His mercy issued laws to protect the many wives and children of polygamists.

Other verse of the scriptures that clearly teaches monogamy include Pro. 5:18-19; Mal. 2:14-15; Mark 10:2-8; 1 Cor. 7:2,10; 1 Tim 3:2,12; Titus 1:6.

I have always questioned many activities in the body of Christ in the light of the word of God. One of such are those who claim to be called into deliverance ministry and believers (who claim to have been in-dwelled by the Holy Spirit) attending deliverance ministry year in and out but are still bound by demons.

So the question is, AFTER a man be in Christ, say genuinely be in Christ and Spirit filled, can such person still be possessed by demon(s)? Am not talking about not putting the flesh under subjection that sometimes, leads to sin of a believer but am talking about Holy Ghost sanctified and filled believer/Christian still being possessed by demons. How true is this? Kindly prove your points with scriptures please.

@ Pastor AIO, Mr Anony and ATMC,

There is no forgiveness of such sin against the Holy Spirit or after death when such person rejects the gifts of salvation from God through Christ and die in such sins, not in this world or world to come. However, there is forgiveness of all kinds of sins prior to believing in Christ and yielding to the conviction of the Holy Spirit. This is what Christ meant by such sins against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this world or world to come.

~double post~

ATMC: Tx bro goshen, i like u a lot, u know dt? U nd other brethren should clear me on this: when jesus said dt d sin against d holy spirit shall not be forgiven neither in this world nor in d world to come, does it mean dt there r sins dt can be forgiven in d world to come, cos of late i'm begining to believe dt there is forgiveness in d world to come except dt a certain sin wont be forgiven as such. This has made me to think about d roman catholics nd d church of jesus christ of d latter day's saint, who pray for d dead, how come about this revelation to them?

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come. Matthew 12:31-32 Kjv

The context of these verse shows the rejection of Christ by the Pharisees and attributing his miracles by the power of the Holy Spirit to Satan even though it was glaring that he cast out demons by the power of the Holy Spirit/finger of God. It is one of their persistent ways of denying Christ. The Pharisees like Saul of Tartus, if they come to repentance will be forgiven but the sin against the Holy Spirit is what Jesus said will not be forgiven.

Now, the question is: does it mean that the blood of Jesus cannot atone for sin against the Holy Spirit? You will notice that at the time Jesus is referring to the sin against the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit had not been given at that time because Jesus had not died. Jesus used the analogy of sin and blasphemy against him to compare to that of the Holy Spirit because it is the Holy Spirit that will later convict the world of sin after Jesus' death and resurrection. This you find in John 16:5-15.

Jesus is not confronting sin and blasphemy against the Holy Spirit that is committed based on unbelief stemmed from ignorance such as that of Paul when he was still Saul, a Pharisee (1 Tim.1:13) because Paul was later forgiven but such as the Pharisees' deliberate rejection when the Holy Spirit would have been given to testify of Christ and makes his truth known to us, also convicting the world of sin. Also, Peter's rejection of Christ was also forgiven, Luke 22:54-62 and was subsequently restored John 21:15-19. This sin against the Holy Spirit is not committed by believers but by unbelievers who voluntarily reject the finished works of salvation for the bible says, the Lord is that Spirit. 2 Corinthians 3:17. So the so called "sin against the Holy Spirit" cannot contradict other scriptures that talks about forgiveness when one confesses and repents of his/her sins. 1 John 1:7-9.

In the OT, for God to establish a nation through which He will establish the fulfillment of His Covenant, God had to first set them free from their oppression and bondage. In the OT, it was bondage and oppression of Pharaoh that held the people of God bound and they could not serve their God as it should be. Today in the NT, it is lies, heresy, manipulation, intimidation and "twisted" scriptures that keeps God's people in bondage and prevents them for worshiping God in Spirit and in truth (John 4:24). In the OT, God set the people of Israel free by sending Moses to deliver them. In the NT, the only thing that will set God's people free is TRUTH for Jesus said, "You shall KNOW the truth and the truth shall set you free". Truth is the only deliverer sent to the NT believers to set them free from all kinds of oppressions.

Apostle Peter, speaking about Apostle Paul wrote this:

speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction. 2 Peter 3:16 (NLT)

Also, the writer of Hebrew wrote:

We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. Hebrews 5:11 (NIV)

But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect. 1 Peter 3:15 (NIV).

I know many of you/us have many scriptures that had been explained to you/us in the past by those we trusted to teach us the truth of God's word but alas, we grew up studying the word only to find out that many of those scriptures were actually "twisted/distorted" to suite traditions of men. Kindly share/post your burden of "twisted/distorted" scriptures here and many strong bible teachers on this board will be here to explain those scriptures to you USING SCRIPTURES TO EXPLAIN SCRIPTURES ONLY.

Let us be respectful, mature in our conversation/presentations here and be open mined to learn without a "preconceived I Must be right/You are wrong" mentality or teaching. Bible teachers, kindly present your strong teachings in CONTEXT as clearing and convincing as you can and that will prove the truth BEYOND ALL CONTRADICTIONS to explain what the word of God says so that whoever ask question on any "twisted" scriptures/readers will be edified and know the truth of God's word, NO MAN'S IDEA AND NO PRIVATE/PERSONAL INTERPRETATIONS PLEASE.

@ manmustwac,

Where in the world is JeSoul? We haven't seen/heard from her lately. Hope everything is Okay with her?

Umartins1: I still dont know how to use smileys though, I'd not tried it. Can someone help me?

Just hit any smiley of your choice before or after your comments and if you like, in between your comments. That's it.

cyrexx: ^^

typical chrisitan apologist

Why do you say that? I said that because I don't want to continue to argue with the OP if he is not ready to be open minded. I guess you are not jumping to conclusion?

cyrexx: oops, my bad, i thought it is the perfect and reliable Word of the perfect and reliable God, that should contain no loopholes. i guess i'm wrong

There is no lope holes in the word of God. What you don't understand, someone else can explain to you. What you call lope holes is understood by someone else. You call is lope holes because you don't fully understand such "certain" things. No one is an Island of Knowledge. However, am here to teach the way of God and not to argue the ways of God.

Delafruita: thanks brother.thoughmy day would be much more enjoyable if i had access to an Ak47 and a bank vault

lolz. But I thought you asked the brethren to thank God for you.....you made it? Abi na another person thread I go read? Wetin happen u come dey think of AK47 and access to bank vault? This one na serious matter o. Abeg my hand no dey this kind thing o.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=451108401588557&set=a.422873167745414.98490.422840497748681&type=1&theater

What do you think?

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Okay. Thanks. At least, you know the thread derailers in your heart and I also know such. You are not one of them anyway but your own is that you are always looking for lope holes in the word of God so you can use it to fight the word of God,lolz. Anyway, just don't let us always act like kids in our comments and let's be open minded. I don't force people to believe, I only make the case for you to believe and make you see the evidence for believe and the choice is still up to individuals.

Enjoy your weekend my brother.

Delafruita: food for thought to all "thread derailers"

And what is "derailing" about my comments?

Like I said, you have a "carnal" mind towards the bible. The context is always different in all bible text. No bible verse is of private INTERPRETATION. I have given you same verse in another translation. This shows you are fighting the word of God. I'm not here to exchange too many arguments with. Go and read same verse from many translations. Stop reading the bible to "fight" God and his word and go get yourself Hebrew/Greek concordance to get the original meaning because many translators didn't find the accurate words to express the original Hebrew/Greek meaning to fit the English translations.

~out of here~

I don't Christians are running away. I can only speak for myself anyway. Personally, I don't force Atheists to believe God or in God. I don't just enter some argument threads. I try to live by the rules. When threads are opened to argue God exist or not and to speak negative of God, I don't enter such. We are supposed to be doing something meaning with our lives and time. Whether you accept God exist or not, it doesn't change anything just going in circle with ourselves and at the end, we ask, what have we achieved? I always read from behind and when I read threads am suppose to contribute, I will sure do but not all threads are okay for Christians to contribute. The same people that will derail Christian threads and mess it up of its objectives are here asking "where are the wonderful threads"? Thank you.

Exodus 32: 14 So the Lord relented concerning the disaster He said He would bring on His people. The HCSB Translation

During the plagues against Egypt, Moses frequently prayed on behalf of Pharaoh and the Egyptians. Now Moses prayed for the Israelites (vv. 30-32; 33:12-16; 34:8-9). That the Lord told Moses about the situation and did not immediately destroy the Israelites left the door open for Moses to pray for them and for the Lord to relent (unlike Jer 15:1). As He would Himself proclaim, compassion, grace, and the capacity to forgive are among God's most prominent characteristics (Ex 34:6-7; cp. Jnh 3:9-10; 4:2). Earlier the Lord had needed to persuade Moses to accept His plans; now Moses uses the Lord's own words to persuade Him to have mercy on His people. This displayed the depth of the victory that the Lord had won in Moses' heart.

People like you are reading the bible just to find holes and point of criticism. It doesn't profit you. Here you have it that the sense of the Kjv doesn't mean God does evil, the sense is punishment and if God chose to relent towards his punishment, who then are you to question him. I don't intend to enter argument with you because I already know you. I don't just want you get away with this because of many worldwide readers.

^^^
When a Christian sister/brother starts to dress like a wayward and perverted person, I don't see the fruit of the Spirit in such. When our Christian brothers/sisters dress nicely in their best to churches on Sundays and you can't tell the difference between a pros.titute and a christian sister, then I doubt the genuineness of such Christians. When a Christian sister dresses to seduce and/or exposes her chest to men outside/within the church environment, then we have a problem in the body of Christ.

What then shall we say? The bible gives exhortation for moderation/moderate dressing without judging Christians based on outward dressing/appearance. Do I need say more?

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. Gal. 1:6-7 Kjv

What is this “another gospel” and what is the “gospel of Christ”? The “Another Gospel” is the Grace and truth perverted Gospel which is contrary to the truth and Grace of the Gospel of Christ. The perverted Gospel is the distortion of Grace of God that came through Christ. It is turning the Grace and Truth into something else and adding the requirements, ceremonies and standard of the old covenant as a necessary prerequisites to salvation and blessings of God. It is telling God's people they can continue to sin and live immorally because they are now under grace of God. It is teaching the people of God to keep the laws and its requirement for justification and requirement to earn God's righteousness.

The “Another Gospel” was the Gospel of “law MIXED/DISTORTED with the Gospel of Grace and Truth which is characterized by the following:

1. If observed, it voids the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. Gal.5:4

2. It was the gospel that could not give the new birth. Gal. 4:28-30

3. It brings bondage. Gal.4:9, 24, 5:1

4. It makes the observers a servant, and voids the son-ship Gal. 4:1-3.

5. It is not in force for Christians 3:19-25

6. It was a schoolmaster that was given until Christ came and was to lead to Christ. Gal. 3:24-26; Heb. 7:28, 9:9-10.

7. It could not give righteousness and life. Gal.3:21

8. It was added only to make/reveal the sin nature. Gal. 3:19; Rom. 3:19-20.

9. It doesn't give an inheritance. Gal. 3:18

10. It is not of faith and whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Gal. 3:12; Romans 14:23

11. It is a gospel that brings only curse and not blessings. Gal. 3:10

12. It is a gospel that is void of justification. Gal. 2:16, 3:11, 5:4

On the other hand, the Gospel of Christ being referred to is the gospel of Grace and Truth that was given by Jesus Christ and preached by the Apostles being characterized by the following:

1. It is the gospel of Grace and truth. Gal. 1:8; John 1:17

2. It is a gospel that gives justification. 2:16

3. It redeems from the curses of the law 3:13

4. It is of faith. 3:22-25

5. It makes us son and not servants. 4:6

6. We operate in the law of Christ. 6:2

7. It gives us new birth. 4:21-31.

What shall we say then? But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. Gal.1:8-9