₦airaland Forum

wiegraf: I've seen 2 branches of zenith bank on the same road, twice. Now why would they do that?

Are you saying churches can do business like the worldly people?

There is NO WAY the church can be the "light of the world" when they don't have the "life of Christ" in them.

John 1:4, In him (Christ) was life; and the life was the light of men.

When Jesus said, "you are the light of the world". It means you MUST have a "life" in you, I mean a kind of "life". This life is the life of Christ that will translate into the light of men. Hence, our light cannot so shine before men and men will not see the good works of the church. The church can't be a light of the world when this life of Christ is absent in them. The only thing we will be left with is COMPETITION, STRIFE AND DIVISION.

Patsey: ABSOLUTE RUBBISH. "The Spirit of God said" forever remains unverifiable proposition and therefore illusory. The thing is, these spineless gibberish can't stand the most compassionate intellectual scrutiny.

My brother, it doesn't have to make sense or any intellectual scrutiny. It doesn't make sense when God instructed Noah to build such ark in a warning towards the coming flood because such had never happened in the past for Noah to learn from. It doesn't make sense when Abraham was told to sacrifice his son but he obeyed anyway. It doesn't make sense for a sea to part but same sea drown the enemies of God. God uses the foolish things to answer the wise man at times. And you have a new specie being discovered and it's still not verifiable?

An Atheists questioned me on the existence of our God at a time and asked a question that I had to re-visit some issues in the Bible. Alas, the word of God is 100% truth unless you don't know. I was questioned in the past about how possible it was for ALL specie of animals to fit into the Noah's ark considering the size of the ark, as a way to disclaim the Bible. This made me to re-visit the topic. While I was at it, the Spirit of God spoke that, "do you think it's all the species of animal in this present age that was present and put in the ark of Noah? I simply answered, I don't know and that is why am researching again.

And the Spirit of God said, first, the fishes were not part of the animals in the ark because fishes are already in their proper place of habitation - in the water. Second, God put what is called a "seed of its kind or a seed after its kind" inside every of His creation. I asked again, how do you mean? And the Spirit of God said, "did God create Adam and Eve a dwarf"? I said, no record of such is found in the Bible. Where then do people like dwarf came from? It is called, "a seed after its kind" - to reveal the glory of the creator. The creator is best known by His creations. Science and Scientists can call it whatever they like but it is the "seed" put inside of every of God's creation with the power to reproduce after its kind and this case of a new specie of snake is a proof.

Clemzy16: Simply because our G.O is trying to ensure that at least one member of a family is a redeemer. Thus, we plant churches in every street occassionally. It's all about wining souls...

.....and where did the G.O learnt that being a member of the RCCG takes you to heaven? Go ye into all nations and make disciples doesn't translate into 2-5 churches in one street. That is not God's way of soul winning. What is 2 or 3 of the same church doing in one building? Indeed, your G.O is ensuring at least one member of a family belongs to RCCG. It's all business methods being adopted to what is called church growth so there can be more tithes, 4 to 5 kinds of offerings in one Sunday service, paying professional pastors and building ungodly empires/programmes. What stops 2 of same church merging together to be one in a street? As the churches increase, immorality abound. What then shall we say about the increasing immorality due to increasing church branches? There is no more preachers of righteousness like Noah, it's all business methods. Alas, as they are doing their own business, God is doing His.

Clemzy16: Simply because our G.O is trying to ensure that at least one member of a family is a redeemer. Thus, we plant churches in every street occassionally. It's all about wining souls...

.....and where did the G.O learnt that being a member of the RCCG takes you to heaven? Go ye into all nations and make disciples doesn't translate into 2-5 churches in one street. That is not God's way of soul winning. What is 2 or 3 of the same church doing in one building? Indeed, your G.O is ensuring at least one member of a family belongs to RCCG. It's all business methods being adopted to what is called church growth so there can be more tithes, 4 to 5 kinds of offerings in one Sunday service, paying professional pastors and building ungodly empires/programmes. What stops 2 of same church merging together to be one in a street? As the churches increase, immorality abound. What then shall we say about the increasing immorality due to increasing church branches? There is no more preachers of righteousness like Noah, it's all business methods. Alas, as they are doing their own business, God is doing His.

10 "Listen to my message, you Sodom-schooled leaders. Receive God's revelation, you Gomorrah-schooled people.

11-12"Why this frenzy of sacrifices?" God's asking. "Don't you think I've had my fill of burnt sacrifices, rams and plump grain-fed calves? Don't you think I've had my fill of blood from bulls, lambs, and goats? When you come before me, whoever gave you the idea of acting like this, Running here and there, doing this and that— all this sheer commotion in the place provided for worship?

13-20 "Quit your worship charades. I can't stand your trivial religious games: Monthly conferences, weekly Sabbaths, special meetings—meetings, meetings, meetings—I can't stand one more! Meetings for this, meetings for that. I hate them! You've worn me out! I'm sick of your religion, religion, religion, while you go right on sinning. When you put on your next prayer-performance, I'll be looking the other way. No matter how long or loud or often you pray, I'll not be listening. And do you know why? Because you've been tearing people to pieces, and your hands are bloody. Go home and wash up. Clean up your act. Sweep your lives clean of your evildoings so I don't have to look at them any longer. Say no to wrong. Learn to do good. Work for justice. Help the down-and-out. Stand up for the homeless. Go to bat for the defenseless.

Isaiah 1:10-20
The Message (MSG) Translation

Today, business methods are being applied to monumental building and they call it church growth while the lives of the laity are wallowing in immoralities. The expand their business empires so as to estimate the the tithes, offerings, meeting for this and meeting for that and yet, there is not trace of any godliness in the members. Year in, year our - all kinds of Holy Ghost meetings, conference for this and conference for that with all kinds of unbiblical impartation and collecting people's money but alas, Christ is missing in their lifestyle after their meetings. They engage in project that pure built of business pattern rather than God's pattern.

As it is written, "My house that is meant to be a house of prayer, it has been made a den of thieves". What then shall we say? Shall we continue to expand at every 5 kilometers in every street at the detriment of godliness? God forbid. It is righteousness that exalts a nation, sin is a reproach to any person. It is unbiblical to expand church branches and control resources to one headquarter that commands the affairs and how branches operate. This is a witchcraft spirit and the true church of Jesus does not have such commandments.

@ Mr Anony,

You are my good brother and we can always disagree on "few" issues like you said. I can assure you am not reading into the words of Benny Hinn. I have followed Benny Hinn for some times and I know how he operates here in the U.S.A. I won't like to use "some" terms on him here on this forum for some "personal" reasons best known to me. I perceive you "like" Hinn or he is one of your favourites. However, for someone like me, I like to say it raw and undiluted irrespective of the MoG involved even though I respect MoGs. I have just added you as one of the people you can follow on Nairaland, kindly use my username here to send me a private message and from there, I will get your email and talk to you in private why I believe Benny Hinn is wrong with that statement.

^^^
“The Lord said to me in '89...sorry, yeah, '89. He said when Oral Roberts and Billy Graham go home will be the key—it will be the sign—of the beginning of the greatest revival on earth. Oral is home. Billy is about to go home. And when he does, I am telling the whole church, get ready.” - Benny Hinn.

Can you interpret the above statement? What does the sentence, "will be the key - it will be the sign of the beginning of greatest revival on earth" mean?

^^^
It is blasphemy to God and His word in such that, the revival of God and the body of Christ depends on Billy Graham's death.....what happened to what Christ did? Second, Are you saying if Billy Graham doesn't die, the body of Christ will NOT see revival? It contradicts the word of God. This is not prophesy, it is blasphemy to God and His word and a slap to the body of Christ as whole. Our revival does not depend on Billy Graham's death neither does it depend on Oral Robert. God appoints men of God, they come and they go but the glory of God remains. Besides, prophecies don't contradict the word of God.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1ztEiBTXtE?version=3&hl=en

Many times, I wonder what the heck comes out from the mouth of some of our religious leaders. This statement by Benny Hinn is an outright blasphemy to God and His word and a slap to the body of Christ. It's time for some of these leaders to just keep quiet if they have nothing edifying to say to the body of Christ. If they are too old and seems not to know what they are saying any more, we humbly suggests they retire.

^^^^^^^^

Joagbaje: Let me ask you few question? Are you saying if a christian man have sex with a Demonised lady such demon will not gain access to him?

Secondly what do you have to say about the satanic influence on Ananias and his wife? We're they not born again and filled with the holy ghost?

[Acts 5:3
But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

A christian can give place to the devil. Many have given place to the devil without knowing by living unguarded lives.

Ephesians 4:26-27
Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: 27 Neither give place to the devil.

Okay. If you say Ananias and Sapphira are christians.....probably the "Spirit filled Christains" we're talking about here in this thread. You have agreed that a "Spirit filled" Christian CANNOT BE POSSESSED BY DEMONS because the Spirit of God dwells in such. Now, if Ananias and Sapphira are "Spirit filled" Christians, how possible is it from your statement that a Spirit filled believer/Christian cannot be possessed with demons BUT Ananias and Sapphira are FILLED with Satan in their heart? How possible is that if they are Spirit filled Christians and how can they be filled with Satan and Spirit of God same time? Kindly explain this conflict....if you can. It is evident that Ananias and Sapphira are mere church goer Christians among the body of believers being added to the church at the beginning.

Hello our dear partner,

Great work you are doing in the Grasscutter farming. Sure business is moving fine with you in your farm. As usual, never a dull moment with us at Pavemgo Mega Grasscutter Farms. You can always contact me here or email me at goshen360@yahoo.co.uk or contact my dad for any kind of supply or any amount of Grasscutter needed. We ALWAYS have breeding stock available 24/7. Thank you bro.

So far, reading from behind; I see clearly the point Joagbaje is making here and that is basically: A SPIRIT FILLED Christian CANNOT BE POSSESSED BY DEMON(S) BECAUSE THE SPIRIT OF GOD POSSESSES SUCH CHRISTIAN BUT a Christian can be influenced (from outside).....a kind of trying a Christian to see "IF" he/she allows such demons. The condition by Joagbaje is "IF such Christian allows it. It will therefore mean that a SPIRIT filled Christian cannot be possessed by demons according to this thread BUT an ordinary or church goer or non-spirit filled Christian can be possessed by demons because they don't know their right and privileges.

From the light of the scriptures, most of what is called "sin" or "openings" to demons/devils are actually works of the flesh that manifested or that was allowed due to not doing what the bible says we should do about our body and soul after our spirit is born from above in the new creation. I don't call a "spirit filled" Christian committing adultery or fornication an act of demons but an act of yielding to the flesh because all are tempted - both ordinary christian and spirit filled christian and when the flesh is not put under, it grows beyond control.

Lastly, to Joagbaje,
Ananias and Sapphira are NOT believers or Christian. Let me proved it with bible verses. In the book of acts, the author has a way of describing the believers and non believers even they the non believers are added to the church. In other words, we can describe non believers as church goers of our days. ALL true believers/Christians in acts are often/all described as "a certain disciple called....." while the church goers are described as "a certain man called....". Take a look at these verses:

A man named Simon had been a sorcerer there for many years, amazing the people of Samaria and claiming to be someone great. Acts 8:9 NLT

Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. Acts 5:1 NIV

A man named Ananias came to see me. He was a devout observer of the law and highly respected by all the Jews living there. Acts 22:12 NIV

COMPARE TO

He came to Derbe and then to Lystra, where a disciple named Timothy lived, whose mother was a Jewess and a believer, but whose father was a Greek. Acts 16:1 NIV

And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord. Acts 9:10 KJV

Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas: this woman was full of good works and almsdeeds which she did. Acts 9:36 KJV

There went with us also certain of the disciples of Caesarea, and brought with them one Mnason of Cyprus, an old disciple, with whom we should lodge. Acts 21:16 KJV

Above all, I think I understand what Joagbaje is saying. He said it emphatically that Spirit filled Christian CANNOT be possessed by demons but can be tried kind of - that is being influenced from outside.

I'm very much interested in this article as I was going to write a similar article. However, it's sleep o'clock for me now. I will write intensively to ADD to what you have written when I wake up tomorrow. Thanks and God bless.

^
Nice explanation.....bro Joagbaje. Thanks for the clarification.

@ Onegai,

Thank you. I had to amplify my point after I made the first comment to this thread. Some people dey abuse me. You see, our people need to change their "mentality". A yoruba adage says: owo igbe kii run. Meaning, money acquired from a messy job doesn't smell. What stops a graduate from working in a messy environment or from a little position until he/she can get something better. A ladder doesn't start from top to top, it starts from bottom to top.

To my graduate friends who had insulted me as if I don't know what am talking about.

Let me help your "ego/pride" in this matter. I attended Federal Polytechnic, Offa, Kwara State and graduated in 1999. I did my Industrial Training (I.T) at Administrative Staff College of Nigeria - ASCON in Badagry, Lagos State. While I was serving, I met a colleague and we became friends. After completing our I.T, my friend went back for his H.N.D while I went for B.Sc in Lagos State University.

I engaged in a family business while I was in school, started a Grasscutter farming that now turned out to be one of the biggest Grasscutter farm in Nigeria today. How? Just in a little way. Today, this Grasscutter business has now grown so big that it became a source of income for my family while am away in abroad. From that little Grasscutter business, I was able to create another business - a Cybercafe business which I started in 2002/03. I started my Cybercafe business after my friend finished his HND and he was looking for job. My thought was that, we could work together creating job instead of looking for job, we should rather create job for ourselves. My friend had this mentality of looking for white collar job as he always wanted to work in an office environment but I had a different mentality of creating job because I understand you will only be helping someone to make money when you work for them.

I make bold to tell you that, I left Nigerian since 2008 for the U.S and my friend is still searching for his white collar job. Alas! he hasn't got one even as we speak. I do not intend to mock my friend anyway, just citing an example. Ladies and Gentlemen, the fact that we're all graduates doesn't mean we'll start with a white collar job. My advice is very simple and clear, if you are a graduate and you feel you can do this job offer from Dangote, kindly put your pride/ego aside and start from somewhere. Like I said, you can take this job and build capital from whatever income you earn to start your own business. In my years of business administration and management studies/Economics, I have come to know that YOU WILL ONLY BE MAKING PROFIT FOR YOUR EMPLOYER when you work for people while you are only paid "token" as wages, you being the one doing the main job. How then do you become your own boss? You either start from somewhere to build up capital or start your own business if you have your own capital.

See pride in the hearts of some so called "graduates". Which kind book una don read wey another person never read before?I don't mean insult anyway. If you can apply for the job and be employed, why don't you take it for now UNTIL YOU GET A BETTER OFFER TO A BETTER POSITION/FUTURE. A clear picture of pride and despising the days of little beginning. You can even get the job just to save/build capital to start your own business. It doesn't diminish anything from you neither does it subtract anything from your future. As some graduates dey do yanga, some graduates don apply same job chap-chap.

^
I will like us wait for bro. ogoamaka99 to explain the difference....if we could learn from him.

Pastor AIO: 1 Cor 7:14

Pastor AIO,

I did an exposition on the above verse in the past, you may find it interesting.

Goshen360: Those who are sanctified

Sanctified (#G37) is an English word from the Greek word – hagiazo rooted in the Greek word – hagios/hagos (#G40) and it means to make holy or make sacred (physically pure and morally/religiously blameless), purify, hallow, consecrated, to venerate, separated from and set apart to/for God. Many things in the Bible are called sanctified. The Sabbath Day was sanctified by God, which meant it was set apart for special service (Gen. 2:3). The Tabernacle and its furniture was set apart as the place of God's presence and for worship (Exod. 29:43, Lev. 8:10). Jesus was sanctified by the Father (John 10:36); food is sanctified when offered in prayer (1 Tim. 4:5). The believer is instructed to sanctify God in his heart (1 Pet. 3:15).

Jude says, “Sanctified by God the Father”. Jude states that he is addressing the letter to those "sanctified by God the Father." "Sanctify" means to make holy or to purify and being set apart for God's use and unique service. This is a deep word though it sounds very simple. God is the One that sanctifies the ones He called and He had sanctified them in His Son Jesus. Our sanctification is NOT of our works but by God. When God calls, He also sanctifies and had indeed sanctified. In the use of sanctified with relation to persons, it means to consecrate as being set apart by God and sent by Him for the performance of His will (John 10:36). It is also used in respect to person as devoted, set apart from a COMMON to a SACRED use since in the Jewish ritual; this was one great object of the purifications. (Matt 23:17; 23:19; 2 Tim. 2:21, Lev. 8:10, 30)

In 1 Cor. 7:14,

“For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy”.

Apostle Paul expanded on the how Christians are sanctified IN or in relationship with Christ to teach same revelation from a marriage covenant of a husband and wife. We (Christians) like our sinful acts are though still called saints because of our relationship with Christ, married or joined with Christ; God called us holy ones, sanctified ones. By the same revelation, Paul explains the sanctification of a believing spouse when married to an unbelieving one.

The sanctification (sanctified) here in 1 Cor. 7:14 is the word, hegiastai and it should NOT be confused to mean salvation. It means the unbelieving spouse is set apart on account of the believing partner. The unbeliever comes under a special and direct spiritual influence and benefits from the divine favour in the life of the believing spouse. As long as there is marriage covenant and contact, there is hope that the unbelieving spouse will turn to faith in Jesus Christ. The revelation here is that, in such marriage covenant, the believing spouse is NOT defiled by the unbeliever; rather the unbeliever is sanctified by the believer.

anukulapo: Well,can't say 2 cor 8:9 is twisted but won't mind getting it straight.

"For ye know the grace of our lord Jesus christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich."

Is this not a back-up for our financial prosperity? But, this is not in perfect correlation with christ's words about money and from the letters of paul and peter and james.

Thanks brethren.

I believe this text speaks for itself. Now let us split the text to see if it doesn't contradict other scriptures. I think we have dealt with this text in the past. The best parallel kind of scripture I found to explain 2 Cor. 8:9 is 2 Corinthians 5:21, "For he has made him, who knew no sin, to be sin for us; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him". KJV

God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. (NIV)

The text in 2 Cor. 8:9 simply says, "though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor". Now the question is IN WHAT WAY OR IN WHAT WAS JESUS RICH IN? Is it in financial aspect or in other aspects relating to spiritual? We need to answer this question so determine what Jesus was rich in. The text simply says he was rich BUT for our sake, he became poor, WHY? ....."so that we through his poverty (that he became) might be rich.....not MUST be rich.

If we determine the context of Jesus' riches then we can determine the context of the riches that is meant by "we through his poverty might be rich". I believe this is how to rightly divide the word of truth.

@ ATMC,

I "think" you are reading into that text of the words of Jesus. Like I said, the text does not suggest likeliness to forgiveness of some sin in the world to come but rather, it is referring to same sin against the Holy Spirit that will not be forgiven in the world to come. If you like, you can read from many translations of the Bible to get the true picture of that text or better still put it like this in our own words, for instance, like someone offend you and you are reporting to me/us and you are saying "you cannot forgive that person in this world or even in the world to come, over your dead body"......something like that. It does not suggest that you will forgive some sins in the world to come because there is no sin in that world to come, sin would have been completely destroyed because we are wearing incorruptible body by then.

ogoamaka99: Bible is our standard and answer to every issues of life. You need to understand the difference between a christian possessing a demon and a christian been possessed by a demon.
A christian can possess a demon and it is possible BUT a christian CANNOT BE POSSESSED BY A DEMON.

Hey brother, It's being a long time. Sure you're good. I don't mind learning from you about a Christian POSSESSING A DEMON with examples from the scriptures so I/we can better understand the comparison. As for the Christian CANNOT be possessed by a demon, that is well understood. Thank you bro.

Caracta: I got this mail from an old friend, a Pastor of a small church, married with three kids. Here is the mail:
'Hi friend. I got a job offer at a BREWERY as an Accountant through a POWERFUL uncle. As a Pastor, i've always preached against alcoholic drinks.
If i accept the offer, i would be seen as a hypocrite and bad example in my church (working in an alcoholic factory). I could even lose the confidence of my members.
If i reject it, my uncle would be furious and could even report me to my wife. I know that woman! It would affect my marriage.
What should i do? I have serious financial problems. Could this be temptation? Pls advise me. I've always trusted your judgment'
O ye wise nairalanders, please advise this young man/pastor.

So as an accountant? I think your pastor friend should rather concern his thinking and fear with "thiefing money" rather than occupy himself with thought of working in a brewery probably because of the environment or consumption of alcohol content. He will have greater temptation with money than drinking of alcohol content. Let him go work so as to provide for his family until he get another better offer if he doesn't like this one because of his faith. Besides, I don't see anything wrong working as ACCOUNTANT in a BREWERY.

^
I am grateful to God for men like you gracing the religious session of Nairaland. Thank you for the above contribution. When people begin to stand up for the truth. I believe falsehood will soon disappear. I was introduced to your thread about the Grace stuff. I will find time to go through all of it. You are welcome. Many times, I often overlook some thread due to Atheists overflowing this board with some unedifying threads, therefore I stay away in order to avoid unnecessary argument. I guess I must have overlooked your thread also. Hence, I will like to follow your thread from henceforth.

@ 2buff,

I totally agree with all what you have said. What am questioning you about and I think Petres also is questioning same thing is, "a spirit filled" believer allowing flesh to rule and such engage in fornication and contact AIDS which is a type of disease is NOT an example of demon influenced but an example of the works of the flesh. Such Christian "allowed" the flesh to rule for the spirit of a prophet is subject to the prophet. This is what I question you about. Everyone knows we should not open the doors to enemy in our lives but not all those doors are opened by being demon influenced.

Also, check through many of my comments here or if you have known me a little, I do not teach abuse of Grace as a license to continue to sin. Grace is an empowerment to stand against sin.

danwo: 1st question,within this playing field are we inferring that spirit filled can be influenced by demons means exactly or nearly the same as spirit filled can be influenced by satan/serpent

I don't really get your presentation here. Being influenced and being possessed.....please clarify.

danwo: 2nd question are we also inferring that adam and eve were influenced due to sin

Adam and Eve were not possessed or influenced but tempted.....I believe. (I might be wrong though)

danwo: 3rd question what and who were Ananias and Sapphira?

Ananias and Sapphira ARE NOT BELIEVERS BUT EXAMPLE OF CHURCH GOERS and I can prove it. In Acts of Apostles, when the Bible refers to a believer, such phrase such as "certain disciple called....." is being used to refer to them (Acts 16:1; 9:10; 9:36; 21:16). In the case of Ananias and Sapphira, they were called, "certain man called ....." Acts 5:1

2buff: Do you agree that a disease is a demonic affliction?

My brother, don't let us prolong matters such as this. First we asked you to show us from scriptures at least, in the NT where a spirit filled believer can be demon influenced. You turned aside to ask me another question if I believe disease is a demonic affliction? Now, it is not whether I believe or not, the Bible is sufficient for itself. What if I say I believe such and it negates the scriptures? And what if I say I don't believe such and it still negates the scriptures.

Now, will you mind to show us where a spirit filled believer is under a disease in the NT? I believe we should be talking scriptures here and not our own idea. If you know of spirit filled believer in the NT that is held down by disease, kindly share with us.

2buff: This is not about demonic possession. It is about demonic influence in a persons life.

No-one said it is an instant thing.
But grace, like anything when abused, could become limited, allowing certain things into a persons life.
The result of which serve as a wake-up call to the person in question to snap up and be serious. This is simply God correcting his children. Read your bible.
Better to go through a situation that would make you get serious than to let you "cruise" your way down to hell un-pertubed.
Unless of course you're one of those who think professed christians, no matter how much unrepented evil they commit, never go to hell.

I think many things being referred to as "demonic influence" is works of the flesh. Everything is not demons. I still want you to prove with scriptures that a spirit filled can be influenced by demons due to sin. Give us examples in the NT.

[quote author=petres_007]Oh, I get it now

But I don't think that was enough to make the mighty JoeAgbaje "skedaddle" o. I'm sure when he's got time he'll come and explain it better to us.

You see, this is the kind of unbiblical teaching always offered as explanation. I dare say there is absolutely no scriptural basis for this notion that sin opens up the Christian to demon possession.

The Corinthian church was an excellent example. They had it wrong on so many fronts, including sinning and openly condoning outrageous sins etc. The Apostle Paul rebukes and corrects them but never even hints at possible demon possession because of their actions.

If you have any biblical examples of Christians sinning and becoming infested with demons or even being so much as warned of demon possession, please post them here and lets look at them together.[/quote]I think I will hold my peace until Joagbaje and 2buff use scriptures to ground their teachings beyond ALL contradictions. We have gone too far in the word of God for us not to prove our points with scriptures. Until I hear better from Joagbaje and 2buff, I think I still stand with petres_007 for now.

[quote author=petres_007]Sir,
I don't believe this one bit. And just as expected, you cited the pillar for this teaching - Verse 2 of Acts 19
Here's the account with verse 2 in its proper context:

The passage tells us why these "disciples" needed a "second" work of grace - all they had was John's message of repentance. Therefore verse 2 (or verse 6 for that matter) cannot be used as evidence that a person first comes to the Lord, and then has to wait for the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

* I really don't want us to derail this thread and would be open to discussing this particular interesting topic sometime later, God willing. [/quote]It's not really an issue of derailing the thread. I am very open to your teachings and we can look at it together from the word of God. These "disciples" we are talking about, first believed in Jesus by the repentance which John preached. What I said earlier is, both spiritual new birth and baptism in the Holy Spirit dont take place SAME TIME. It can take place one minute after or some minutes after one gives his/her life to Christ and believe in Christ, repenting from one's sin and then follow the baptism. It can take place same day but not same time.

Another clear example are the disciples of Jesus, they were told to wait at the upper room in Jerusalem until they be filled with power by the Holy Ghost even though they had believed in Jesus Christ but they aren't filled with the Holy Ghost. These are many examples like that in the scriptures. However, I am open to your discussion should I err in this matter.