₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
Are you sure the "YOU" here is individually or reminding them what he said at Matthew 18:20?

Yes, it's individually. He was instructing them to go preach the gospel. The gospel is preached both individually and collectively. Jesus said whether individually or collectively, I am with you until the end of time.

You also must not forget that He is in us individually too. Not just with us.

MaxInDHouse:
If you like ignore what God's only begotten son said, as for me and my household we will take what Jesus said seriously.
He said:

"For where there are two or three GATHERED TOGETHER in my name, there I am in their midst.” Matthew 18:20

So we must GATHER with fellow believers if we expect Jesus in our midst! Hebrews 10:24-25

Lol.

He promised to be where two or more gathered in His name. He also promised to be with us individually till the end of the age.

Mathew 28:20
"And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

Where did He command that you must gather in order to have eternal life? Lol.

MaxInDHouse:
RELIGION is GATHERING TOGETHER, PRAYING, SINGING and DOING what Jesus commanded as a GROUP!

Give me your Bible reference that defined religion this way.

Michael547:
So according to 1 Peter 4:6, where the dead when they were preached to?

Is 1 Peter 4:6 the only Scripture I gave you?

Why did Jesus need to preach to them since they are to be judged by what they did when they were alive according to their conscience?

Is the answer not there in the same 1 Peter 4:6?

"For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit."

Don't come here telling me "according to you." I only quoted the Scriptures!

MaxInDHouse:
There is no book of world religion that will not mention CHRISTIANITY as one of the religions nah!
So why referring to what you yourself disagree with? l

Yeah, that's man's method - Religion. Hence, you'll find religions before Christ, during Christ and after Christ in any book of World Religions you may lay your hands on.

God didn't institute any religion, He only instituted a WAY which is JESUS. Man applied his own method and turned the WAY into a religion. God didn't create religion. All what God wants from you is to fulfil THE WHOLE DUTY OF MAN AS outlined in the Scriptures!

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus won't be with those who refused to GATHER with other worshipers! Matthew 18:20

That's not the question I asked you!

Dtruthspeaker:
Off point. And iin addition you make the error of saying "true repentance" which clearly means you admit he repented even if it is a bad and fake one. which was my point!

Is off point your newly acquired dictionary word? You keep shouting off point when you see that you've been cornered.

I never admitted that he repented. Repentance is towards God and not towards man!

Now that you've admitted that his repentance was a bad and fake one, you're now coming back home. But God does not categorize repentance as Bad and Good repentance. To God, it's either you repented or you didn't repent. Period! God does not have bad and good repentance in His dictionary. Only repentance.

I used the word 'True Repentance' because I saw that I was talking to someone who thinks every repentance made to goats and dogs are also repentance.

You can only repent towards God. That's repentance. This is the type of life David lived.

You are obviously talking to yourself.

You should have answered the question and prove me wrong.

It is a Law man, if you take up hot coals into your bossom, you must be burnt.

It is a law of your god to wish hellfire to others?

Dtruthspeaker:
Off point.

You thought Saul. did not repent and now you have seen it, you are now changing post.

You clearly don't know what repentance is.

To repent is to turn away from sin with a mind never to go back to sin again.

You don't repent after asking man for forgiveness and then continue sinning. That's what Saul did. That's not repentance.

In true repentance, you ask God and not man for forgiveness. You turn away from your sin and stop sinning. You don't seek self honour in the place of repentance. You need to humble yourself and seek God's face until you're forgiven. You turn away from sin. You don't go about murdering all the priests in a town and hunting the life of s boy all your life to kill him. You don't consult witches or speak to the dead and claim you have repented. These are all Saul did but you're not a child of God, so you won't see your errors but rather tag me a criminal for telling you the truth of the word of God.

See how you prove you are a Liar and a criminal? See what was said

! by GothamCities: 7:45am
Dtruthspeaker:
Did you not see Saul repents asked for the forgiveness in verse 25?

Gotham reply
Okay, I don't think I've seen that. Verse 25 of which chapter?
..................

No where did you ask me to show me where "Saul asked God, not Samuel for forgiveness".

So, I didn't ask you to show me where Saul asked God for forgiveness and you in your non-criminal mind think that when Saul asked Samuel for forgiveness, that's repentance? Hey, my non-criminal friend, you can ask me for forgiveness too and then it would be said that you have repented. Lol.

So you see, you are not a repentant sinner but a sinner who loves sinning.. Keep sinning hellfire is never full.

Hey, you're not a child of God, hence you wouldn't be wishing hellfire on me.

Hey, my friend, come ask me for forgiveness as Saul did ask Samuel, and indeed all your sins shall be forgiven. Lol.

A plea for forgiveness is directed to God and not man. Asking Samuel to forgive him just because he wanted to receive some personal honour from Samuel is useless. There was no remorse. There was no hatred for sin in the man called Saul. He got the honour he wanted and went his way sinning. How does that compare with David? A man who was constantly asking GOD for forgiveness and mercy until God even gave him what the Scriptures call "The sure mercies of David."

I pray that God will forgive you for all the lies against the word of God, the evil words and abuses you have thoughtlessly thrown on me this day in Jesus name.

Michael547:
So why did Christ still go to preach to those who died without knowing him before he came to earth according to you?

Was I the one who said it or the scriptures?

1 Peter 3:18-20:

"For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—"

1 Peter 4:6:
"For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit."


Ephesians 4:8-10:

"This is why it says: 'When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people.' ([b]What does 'he ascended' mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)"

I know you're a Jehovah Witness trying to bring up heretic arguments. Those are the scriptures, not my own words. So, go and ask the questions to the Bible and stop saying "according to you." You opened your eyes and read the scriptures yourself. Go open your Bible and read those verses. Thank you.

Dtruthspeaker:
See why you should use kjv?

And clearly, you are a crook for i said 24/25 but you chose to stop at 24 with your satanic bible. No wonder you are twisted like a criminal.

See what kjv says and see the difference. But with the kind of evil mind, i am certain you won't see the difference and it is definitely outpossible to explain it to you.

1 samuel 15
24 And Saul said unto Samuel, I have sinned: for I have transgressed the commandment of the Lord, and thy words: because I feared the people, and obeyed their voice.

25 Now therefore, I pray thee, pardon my sin, and turn again with me, that I may worship the Lord.

Ah! So, it was Samuel that would pardon Saul's sins?

I asked you to show me where Saul asked God, not Samuel for forgiveness.

I didn't include verse 25 in my initial post because I didn't know I only copied verse 24. It was not deliberate.

However, I'm very familiar with that Scripture, and I know that Saul never asked God for forgiveness.

1. He confessed that he sinned.

2. He asked Samuel to pardon him.

3. He immediately asked Samuel to honour him before the people.

He appealed to Samuel only so that Samuel can be pacified and offer sacrifices with him. He couldn't stand the embarrassment of Samuel living him alone without making any sacrifice. Hence he appeased Samuel. He never appealed to God. He never asked God to forgive him!

Seeing that thy mind is perverted and twisted. See all

Because your lies were exposed by the sound Word of God?

See criminal mind at work. See how you openly Lie and have crookedly changed it to first wife whereas, i was talking about the courting/ "you are the love of my life and the only one of my life and the one I want to spend my life with".

You actually used the word 'first wife' (Screenshot attached) hence you're the criminal. And by that I meant while courting the first wife. If you'll make any such promise to a woman, would you make such promises to her after marrying her or before marrying her? Before marrying the first wife of course!

Not everyone actually proposes to a lady making promises like that. I didn't propose to my wife like that.

I simply said "Sister, I think the Lord wants us to be together as partners for life. I love you and I would love to spend the rest of my life with you. Please pray and hear what God would say to you about this."

That's all I said. Not everyone goes to tell a lady that she's the only love of his life.

Clearly, you are a crook and a criminal and there is no point going on. We shall see on Judgment Day what The Most High Judge shall judge thee.

The Most High God will judge according to His Word and not according to yours. He shall not judge me only but you too!

Michael547:
So did Apostle Paul say that those who died without knowing Jesus before Jesus came to earth had no conscience? So why are they not judged according to their conscience too?

They're all judged according to their conscience. Please read my post again.

Jokerman:
This is my question bro.

You know that without Jesus Christ, no one can enter heaven. And since judgement of God will happen at the last day.

Now where is there soul waiting? In Hell fire or in Hades?

Oh, that was part of your questions. I forgot to answer it. My apologies.

The question will require a broad biblical exposition but I'll make a summarized presentation with biblical references where necessary. The Bible didn't give any explicit information about it but we can draw a lot of inferences and insights from different biblical contexts.

1. Judging from the the Parable of Jesus about the rich man and Lazarus, we can deduce that SOME dead souls are already in heaven while SOME are already in hell. I used the word 'SOME' because there are other Biblical references to some others who are not yet in heaven or hell.

2. There's another Scripture in the book of Revelation that tells us where some of the dead were retrieved from for the final judgement of God.

Revelation 20:13:

"The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done."

This Scripture gives us another insight about where the souls of the dead are kept. Some are in the place of the dead were there is just total silence until the day of judgement.

From the Parable of Jesus, we can deduce that some people can so do wickedly that they're immediately transported to hell at death. Some people can so live righteously also that they're immediately transported to heaven at death, while some actually remain in the place of silence until the judgement day.

Let's look at another Scripture:

Revelation 6:9-10: "When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, 'How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?'"

From this Scripture, you'll see that there's another place called THE ALTAR where those souls who were martyred for their service to God are kept. These ones are not in silence, and are going to give their voice calling for judgement on the wicked bloodletters at the end of time. The Bible didn't tell us what they're currently doing under THE ALTAR but we can deduce that they're not in a place of silence.

So, I think we can understand from the scriptures shared above that the dead are not in any particular single place presently. Those who died without hearing of Christ and those who died having giving their lives to Christ are most probably in a place of silence presently. Those who died as martyrs for Christ are under an altar prepared for them of God. Those who died in serious wickedness are most probably in hell. Those who served God remarkably are most probably now in heaven.

I used the word 'most probably' because they're my personal deductions from what I could read in the Scriptures. My reader can choose to either believe them or not. I am not talking as an absolute authority on the matter.

MaxInDHouse:
Don't misquote me!

I never said there was no religion before Jesus what i'm telling you is that they don't identify themselves with different religious names!

And I am telling you that they did identify themselves under different religions names!

Go find a book of World Religions and study.

MaxInDHouse:
This is a lie!

If people can do what you're saying then there is no reason why people must gather together to take instructions from few ones who are taking the lead! Act 2:42; Hebrews 10:24-25; 13:7,17

Can you prove that gathering together takes anyone to heaven or makes anyone escape eternal damnation? Can you prove that EVERYONE who has gathered with others and are now dead are now undoubtedly assured of their eternity with God on the basis of their gatherings while alive?

Whether you gather or not, everything boils down to what the Bible calls THE WHOLE DUTY OF MAN. Don't add anything to it! If you think otherwise, answer the questions I asked you in my first paragraph above. Then, also tell us the fate of several people who found themselves in situations whereby the could not even afford to gather together with a gathering. If you're talking about gathering, even Satan's people also gather but they cannot fulfil the WHOLE DUTY OF MAN as outlined in the Scriptures.

According to God's word all worshipers of the true God must have the same line of thought regarding worship {John 17:22; 1Corinthians 1:10; Ephesians 4:3

Can you show me where the scriptures have said that having the same line of thoughts is what you need to have eternal peace with God? Eve. Satan's people also do have the same line of thoughts but they cannot fulfil THE WHOLE DUTY OF MAN as outlined in the Bible.

This can only be possible if we are been taught by the same group! Matthew 28:18-20

There are many same groups teaching different things. At the end of the day, what matters is who is fulfilling the WHOLE DUTY OF MAN according to the scriptures.

Michael547:
So are you saying that salvation is still open for people who have died?
What about our forefathers who died after Jesus left the earth? Are some of them also in heaven? When did Christ preach to them?

No, salvation isn't still open to those who have died. We're talking about those who died before Jesus died and resurrected.

For those who died without ever hearing of Jesus after Jesus had completed the work of salvation, such as our forefathers, this is what the scriptures say:

Romans 2:12-15:

"All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them."

God will judge those people such as our forefathers who have not heard the Gospel, neither know the law of Moses before they died according to their conscience. The conscience is the law of God written in the heart of every man.

Dtruthspeaker:
1 Samuel 15: 24/25.

1 Samuel 15:24-25 says:

"Then Saul said to Samuel, 'I have sinned. I violated the Lord’s command and your instructions. I was afraid of the men and so I gave in to them.'"

Show me how Saul asked for forgiveness in the verses above. He was even giving excuses. Lol.

Let me know if you'd like me to provide more context or insights about this passage!

I don't think there's any new insight you would be able to provide. In verse 30 of the same chapter, this is what Saul said:

1 Samuel 15:30:

"Saul replied, 'I have sinned. But please honor me before the elders of my people and before Israel; come back with me, so that I may worship the Lord your God.'"

Can you show me how Saul repented when his focus was on self honour before men?

Now you get my point that Cain was judged for murder and the people of Noah's time up were judged for doing evil even though as you erroneously thought that there was no law.

Conscience! God created conscience in man. The conscience has been in existence before the law, during the law and after the law. Before Moses, God didn't write any law to give to man.

This is where you learn that even if God had not Spoken out The Law, man already knew them and was judged on them.

No. Man didn't know he was to keep the Sabbath until the law came. The law, when it came, did not confine men to one wife. Man didn't know the law until God spoke them out through Moses. The only thing man knew were the laws of his conscience. And that law of his conscience never said that marrying more than one wife is sin. Esau could not be said to have sinned on this basis.

Stop taking things out of scope. i said Paul warned in Romans, 2:14, Nature already taught us to know that we know The Law and showed you how we all naturally know that polygamy is evil in that, none of us told out first wife when we were courting her that she was never going to be our only wife. That's all.

That's actually untrue. Many people actually tell their first wives they'll marry multiple wives. God didn't condemn polygamy. In fact, by telling David that He gave him many of the wives of his predecessor, Saul, God showed no aversion to polygamy.

Here's the scripture:

2 Samuel 12:8 (

"I gave your master’s house to you, and your master’s wives into your arms. I gave you all Israel and Judah. And if all this had been too little, I would have given you even more."

Please condemn God for giving David many more wives in addition to the wives he already had.

Stop acting like you are completely not schooled.
When you are created, you are not birthed. Everyone knows that.

Merriam Webster dictionary
verb
birthed; birthing; births
transitive verb
1 chiefly dialectal : to bring forth.

To bring forth is to give birth and not to create.

There's nothing like birthright in the angelic realm. There must first be a birthing before there can be a birthright. Among the angels, there's no firstborn, second born or last born because they were nicer born. How then did you get your birthright heresy for angels?

Why are you acting stupid? If in your office, you were promised to be given the 2008 Camry and instead, they gave you Volvo 244 on some excuse and promise that if you rework your work, they would now give you the Camry, would you accept it?.

This analogy does not correlate with the matter on ground. If it is unlawful for me to have two cars, I would not accept the promise so as not to disobey God. They didn't force the second car on me. I can choose not to fulfil the condition in order to please God if it were a sin.

See how evil you are?

Are you going mad? i have pointed out the very spot where we see God never speaks to Abraham which was after his Sarah's death and he went sinning and yet you are still talking about the Lot.

So, you're talking about what Abraham did after Sarah's death? You're mentioning Sarah's death for the first time here. My thought had been that you were referencing Hagar. If you're referencing Keturah, the wife Abraham took after Sarah's death, are you saying that Abraham had to wives for taking a wife after the death of Sarah? Did God ever say he sinned by doing so? I have given you the scriptures relating to Lot that showed when God stopped talking to Abraham and when God restarted His talks with him. There is no scripture that suggests that God stopped talking to Abraham after he married Keturah!

You are an uncouth son of Belial for calling someone mad and stupid while sharing thoughts on the Word of God. God will judge you for your evil words this day!

I guess, you have run out of your sanity data today.

May the Lord look into the matter and judge it!

See it. Pious is not the same as blameless living. So you are wrong.

Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
adjective
1.devoutly religious.

See, you are talking rubbish for this was even said when David was righteous like Daniel and Job and co and was not even married yet,

David was already married when God started relating with him. He was already a king over the whole Israel, not just Judah when called him "Mine anointed" and "a man after mine own heart." Stop lying and displaying your satanic side of calling people insane or mad whenever you're confronted with the undiluted truth of God's Word.

David had many wives given to him by God himself. I expect you to start calling God a sinner for doing so. Or you might as well call call mad or insane since He didn't do according to your wish.

You obviously, have not read the bible. You are just following the stupid brainwashed bandwagon who themselves don't read the bible and have allowed Satan's proests and pastors to deceive them.

If you have read the Bible, you wouldn't come online and be calling people mad, insane or stupid while even discussing the Words of the all loving and holy God. Are you a tout?

As i said it is clear you have run out of the reasonability and fairness data.

Simply because I have used sound scriptural backing to dismantle your webs of lies and falsehood.

Jokerman:
Please what happened to souls that died without knowing or seeing Jesus.

Are they in hell, heaven or still in Hades?

Some are in heaven, some in hell.

Here's why:

The scriptures say:

1. 1 Peter 3:18-20:

"For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—"

Christ preached to the imprisoned spirits in hell when He died for 3 days. Those who received His message resurrected and went to heaven. The Scriptures say that when Christ died, many dead saints resurrected and were seen on the streets of Jerusalem.

This position is corroborated by the following scriptures:

1 Peter 4:6 (NIV):

"For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit."

This is one of the great significance of Jesus' death on the cross. If He didn't die, the dead would be left out of God's plan for salvation.

Ephesians 4:8-10 also says:

"This is why it says: 'When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people.' (What does 'he ascended' mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)"

These scriptures suggest that Jesus preached to the spirits in prison, who were disobedient during the time of Noah (1 Peter 3:20), and that He proclaimed the gospel to those who were dead.

MaxInDHouse:
Perhaps you should define the word RELIGION at least to help you grasp that when people gather, sing, pray, and someone takes the lead in other activities while others respond positively it's RELIGION.
That's what God gave the Israelites, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob never practiced such yet they believe the same God so what is the purpose of such arrangement if it's not a RELIGION?

All those things you describe as religion are things done and created by men.

God only instituted a WAY to get Him. That WAY is Jesus.

Live holy, obey God's commands and let Jesus and His Holy Spirit dwell in your heart. That's all what God demand from us. Every other thing you do is religion.

As far as God is concerned, you can praise God anyhow, anywhere and in any position as long as you're doing it in spirit and in truth.

Micah 6:8
"He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God."

Ecclesiastes 12:13
"Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man."

This is all what God needs from you. Every other thing you do is religion! God didn't establish religion.

MaxInDHouse:
At least to prove that RELIGIONS have names just as you claimed so go ahead and mention just one RELIGION as found in God's word the ultimate truth!

I don't consider it a logical demand. Is the Bible a book created for listing religions? Religions existed before Christ was born. It doesn't matter whether they were mentioned in the Bible or not.

Your argument that there was no religion until Christ established His own religion before Satan started creating religions is false.

The religions you claimed Satan created, are they in the Bible that you're telling me to name religions in the Bible before Christ?

RELIGIONS existed but they don't have names it's after Jesus' disciples began taking their own RELIGION to people's homes that these people began calling their RELIGIONS different names to claim they also worship GOD and that Jesus' disciples shouldn't think they are the only group that knows GOD.
Then Satan and his demons began disguising using the Abrahamic faith as cover up to claim they are also worshiping the same God! 2 Corinthians 11:14

Religions existed and had names. Please go find a book of World Religions to educated yourself. For example, the Buddhists and Hindus identified themselves as Buddhists and Hindus long before Christ was born!

Neither Jesus nor His disciples established any religion.

Paul said "I worship the God of my fathers through the WAY which you call heresy." If he was practising religion, he would have said "I worship the God of my fathers through the RELIGION which you call heresy.'

Please let's abide by the Truth.

Dtruthspeaker:
Did you not see Saul repents asked for the forgiveness in verse 25?

So you see my argument stands.

Okay, I don't think I've seen that. Verse 25 of which chapter?

Did you see any where God told Cain do not murder? or do you see where God told the people before Noah that they should not do evils eg kill, steal, prostitute, witchcraft, idolatry, adultery etc?

No, God didn't tell anybody anything. Everyone was guided by their consciences at the time. There was no particular law of God given to man before Moses. Please state the verses and chapters highlighting such laws if you have any.

As Paul warned in Romans, 2:14, Nature already taught us to know that we know The Law and that polygamy is evil as proven by the fact that when we were courting our first wife, no where did we tell her that she would be our first wife. We rather even give her the impression that she would be our only wife. So my, brother,we already knew God's Laws even before God Spelt them out in Writing.

I don't think this is correct. Paul didn't address the issue of polygamy in any of his writings. He only adviced that a bishop should be the husband of one wife. When he talked about the law of God written in our hearts (our conscience), he was talking about grievous sins such as murder, etc. And when he talked about what nature has taught us, on one occasion he was addressing those who say there's no God. On another occasion he was addressing those men who loved to wear long hairs like women. There's no scripture in which Paul talked about polygamy as a naturally known evil.

Birthright is what damned the Angels who left their birthright estate.

Angels were never born, so angels don't know anything called birthright. You need to be born to have a birthright.

He was forced. And force is not only physical harm.

He had a choice my brother. He could decide to maintain Leah. No one forced Rachael on him.

See how dodged to Lot issue, in which there was no wrong there at all, whereas i pointed out the clear spot where God completely stops talking to Abraham when he did a wrong which as you yourself have proved, you are holding on to him on that wrongdoing.

It isn't my thought. It's in the Bible. God was no longer talking to Abraham while lot was with him. Perhaps because of the feud and dissension among their herdsmen. Then when Lot left for Sodom, the Bible says in Genesis 13:14.

"And the LORD spoke to Abram, after Lot had separated from him: “Lift your eyes now and look from the place where you are—northward, southward, eastward, and westward;"

This was the first conversation God had with Abraham after a long time of silence.

Whereas, there are 3 people who scored God's score of "Perfect" to wit, Noah, Daniel, Job and not David nor Abraham nor Jacob.

Not on the basis of polygamy or monogamy. It was on the basis of the pious life which they lived.

Oh, David had several wives but God called him "a man after my own heart"

And this except for Daniel, these had one wife. No sin the or adultery imputed and to any of these but you people who will not see these to hold and use for the perfect ensample of God's approved Wimners and Champions who have no blemish in line with God's Commandment!

Their sinlessness was not on the basis of having one wife or no wife. It was on the basis of their pious lives. Or are you saying that everyone who has no wife or one wife is just as perfect and sinless like these people?

Rather you choose men who are blameworthy and guilty of wrongdoing. whereas God commanded blamelessness and the Noah, Daniel and Job are the perfect ensamples.

There were many others who had one wife or had no wife like these people. So many people like them in the world. Are we to conclude that they too are just as blameless as the people you have listed?

MaxInDHouse:
You're yet to mention the name of a single religion in the Bible!


This are names of Gods worshiped in ancient times not RELIGION.

What did the Bible call the name of Roman RELIGION?

Can you quote where any of these were mentioned in the Bible?
Ọmọ all of them began calling their RELIGIONS one name or another after the establishment of Christianity as the disciples of Jesus were taking their RELIGIONS to their homes! Matthew 28:19-20
Even the Jews in Jesus' day haven't called their RELIGION "Judaism" that's why you can't find such a name in the Bible!

The Jews didn't call their religion Judahism because God didn't give them a religion. They were the ones who finally made it a religion.

What God gave the Israelites was this:

"This a way to please me. Just obey my commandments. If you sin, this is how you can appease me, and I'll forgive you. In exchange for pleasing me, I'll bless you and fight your battles."

That's all. Apart from that, God didn't give the Israelites any religion. The people were the ones who created a religion out of what God gave them.

MaxInDHouse:
You're yet to mention the name of a single religion in the Bible!


This are names of Gods worshiped in ancient times not RELIGION.

What did the Bible call the name of Roman RELIGION?

Can you quote where any of these were mentioned in the Bible?
Ọmọ all of them began calling their RELIGIONS one name or another after the establishment of Christianity as the disciples of Jesus were taking their RELIGIONS to their homes! Matthew 28:19-20
Even the Jews in Jesus' day haven't called their RELIGION "Judaism" that's why you can't find such a name in the Bible!

Can you tell me why they must be mentioned in the Bible for them to be recognized as religions that existed before Jesus was born?

TenQ:
It is either Quasim6 is telling lies or Allah is telling lies

Are theses verses TRUE or FALSE?

Qur'an 7:157
Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them. He will enjoin on them that which is right and forbid them that which is wrong. He will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit for them only the foul; and he will relieve them of their burden and the fetters that they used to wear. Then those who believe in him, and honour him, and help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him: they are the successful.

Qur'an 2:41
And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone.

Qur'an 2:89
And when there cometh unto them a scripture from Allah, confirming that in their possession - though before that they were asking for a signal triumph over those who disbelieved - and when there cometh unto them that which they know (to be the truth) they disbelieve therein. The curse of Allah is on disbelievers.

Qur'an 2:101
And when there cometh unto them a messenger from Allah, confirming that which they possess, a party of those who have received the Scripture fling the Scripture of Allah behind their backs as if they knew not,

We have hundreds of complete scriptures in Greek, Latin, Ethiopian languages that predates Islam by at least 300 years. Therefore onus is on them to show us extracts of the original bible.

Secondly,
Allah claims that no one can change his words
Quran 6:115:
"And the word of your Lord has been fulfilled in truth and in justice. None can alter His words, and He is the Hearing, the Knowing."

I didn't even know that Allah said no one can change his words before I asked quasim6 to tell me why the Injeel Allah revealed to Jesus was destroyed. I asked him why Allah was so powerless to preserve his own revelation.i have also asked him to tell me any extra Quranic text that mentions the Injeel of Jesus or referenced it in anyway to suggest that there was once such Injeel. I pray he wakes up.

MaxInDHouse:
Satan is the one who created false religions to confuse people like you the one and only true religion is what God established with the nation of Israel so if you think false religions just started without the original then you have lost it there is no fake thing without its original form. Satan initiated false religions and gave them different names!

Please tell us the name of the religion God created. Give us reference for where God announced that He has created a religion. Let us know the name God called it.

Jesus obeyed all that's why he told his friends that they should OBEY everything that's written in the law before the New Covenant is established! Matthew 23:2-3

You're yet to tell us the religion Jesus created and the name Jesus gave His religion.

Can you name a religion in the Bible in the old testament?
Come on!
It's after Jesus established a New Religion that Satan began multiplying false religions in the name of the God of Jacob! Matthew 13:25
So it's time you stop lying to your own souls.

There were many religions in the Bible. Baal, Queen of heaven, religion of Molech, Ashtoreth, Dragon,vetc.

Jesus met the religion of the Romans on earth. They had different gods including emperor godhood. The Greecians had their own too. All nations had their religion. The Babylonians did everything to make Daniel a proselyte.

Here are some of the major religions that existed before Jesus was born (approximately 4 BC):

1. Hinduism (circa 1500 BC): The Vedas, ancient Hindu scriptures, were composed around this time.

2. Zoroastrianism (circa 1200 BC): Founded by the Prophet Zoroaster in ancient Persia (modern-day Iran).

3. Buddhism (circa 563 BC): Founded by Siddhartha Gautama, known as the Buddha, in ancient India.

4. Taoism (circa 500 BC): Founded by Lao Tzu in ancient China.

5. Confucianism (circa 500 BC): Founded by Confucius in ancient China.

6. Shintoism (circa 500 BC): Indigenous spirituality of Japan.

7. Ancient Greek Religion (circa 800 BC): Polytheistic worship of gods like Zeus, Athena, and Apollo.

8. Roman Religion (circa 700 BC): Polytheistic worship of gods like Jupiter, Mars, and Venus.

9. Egyptian Religion (circa 3000 BC): Polytheistic worship of gods like Isis, Osiris, and Ra.

These religions had already established their own beliefs, practices, and scriptures before Jesus' birth.

Funny you!
Jesus didn't mention a name but there are thousands of religions all claiming they are following Jesus with their contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines you should know that something is wrong somewhere if Jesus did mention one which of the thousands of different religious groups won't claim that's the name of their religion?

Please tell me how a person became a religion. Jesus said He is the WAY. Paul said he is a follower of the WAY. The WAY is a Person. How did a person become a religion?

Also tell us how Jesus created His religion. The name He gave it and how He spoke about that religion.

MaxInDHouse:
Now you acknowledged there was a RELIGION God handed over to the Israelites through His prophets of old.

We can call it religion but God Himself never said He was establishing religion a religion. If you think otherwise, tell us the name God gave His religion.

Did Jesus assemble with practicers of this RELIGION in the first century?
Did he condemn the RELIGION?
Jesus observered everything the law says so if you don't understand how he did just ask for more understanding! Matthew 5:17

He assembled with both religionists and sinners since He was sent to all men. Did Jesus offer sacrifices? Did He obey the Sabbath? Did Her stone fornicators? Did He do any of the ritualistic purifications? The religionists had 10 commandments they followed. Why did Jesus establish a new commandment by saying "a new commandment I give unto you."

Please answer the questions if you really want to drive home your point about Jesus creating religion.

The Old Covenant foreshadow the New Covenant so both comes with religious rites. According to God's word the Old Covenant was established based on written codes e.g "You must not do this, You must not do that" and forms of practices that separates the nation given this RELIGION from all other nations {Exodus 19:5} but the New Covenant is like something written in the hearts of adherents by considering the thoughts, words and actions of the mediator of this New Covenant.
So unlike the former religion where adherents quote written laws for one another the New religion is about one man Jesus who is Christ and all practicers of this RELIGION must have LOVE among themselves {John 13:34-35} as they keep on encouraging one another to stick to the thoughts, words and actions of their Master, Lord and King {Hebrews 10:24-25} this will make them have the same line of thought! John 17:22 compare to 1Corinthians 1:10; Ephesians 4:3

A religion is something done in the flesh. However, in Christ Jesus, we are in the Spirit, and spirits don't have no religion.

Now, tell me the name of the religion God established. Tell me the name of the religion Jesus established. We know that there's no creator of religion who doesn't give his religion a name.

Paul called it a WAY. It is wrong for you to call it a RELIGION. If you think you're right, tell us the name Jesus called His religion.

The Religion was called two names in the first century:
First century Jews used to call members of this RELIGION "The Way" {Act 9:2; 22:4} because the founder claimed that he is the Way {John 14:6} as the God of Israel promised His worshipers that when the New Covenant is established there will be a Way of holiness {Isaiah 35:8} so when Jesus said he is the Way Jews with sharp minds quickly recollected what is written in the book of Isaiah.
The second name this religion was called back then is "Christianity" because the disciples of it's founder kept telling everyone that their leader is the long awaited Christ! Act 11:26
But both names were temporary for a reason!

Yeah, it is a WAY. And a WAY is not a religion. A religion is not a WAY.

The WAY provides direct access to God. Here, the WAY is a Person. That person is Jesus, and Jesus is not a religion.

A follower of the WAY is a follower of Jesus and not a follower of some religion.

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus PRACTICED the religion of his forefathers inside the temple in Jerusalem.
That's why he assembled with other Jews each time they want to do the passover which is the yearly religious rite God commanded Israelites to keep on doing but Samaritans can't do this because nobody recognize their nation or their temple so they don't practice passover.

Did He keep the Sabbath? Did He sacrifice animals? Did He stone people to death for adultery? All these and more were the practices of the religion of His fathers. Jesus did none of these, so how then did He practice the religion of His father's?

The religion God gave the descendants of Jacob (Israel) which they must continue practicing until the new covenant is established! Jeremiah 31:31-33

The religion was given until the new covenant as you said. After the new covenant was established what religion did God institute? Tell me explicitly where God established a religion in the new covenant.

There is a true religion that's what the disciples of Jesus practiced in the first century as they assemble together {Act 2:1-3} and Paul urged them not to forsake this {Hebrew 10:24-25} because anyone who stop practicing this religion can not be saved! Hebrews 10:26

Paul urged them not to forsake the gathering of brethren together. He never ever told them to stick to any religion.

When he was before Agrippa, Paul told Agrippa "After the WAY, which they call heresy worship I the God of my fathers."

Paul said he was in THE WAY. Not in the RELIGION. And who is the WAY? JESUS of course.

Dtruthspeaker:
Surely, you understand that i do not say that God condemned whole of Moses because of his sin. Every man sins.

But what we can all see is that Moses offended God in something which God did not forgive. And that is the point.

Yeah, I clearly understand your point. We cannot compare Moses's case with that of Saul. God forgave Moses but He didn't forgive Saul because Saul never asked for forgiveness. Moses on the hand did seek forgiveness and got it. Otherwise, God would have cast him out as Her did Saul.

Your argument will stand only if you can show me that Saul asked for forgiveness and God refused to forgive him. God continued to have a rich relationship with Moses because he sought forgiveness and got it but by principle, God would not allow him enter Canaan. If God didn't forgive him, his relationship with God will be broken like that of Saul was broken.

The Commandment was there even before Moses for God had already told Abraham that Canaan was going to be his because God hated them and was going to destroy the them. That is one of the tenets of the Covenant.

He didn't tell Abraham or anyone not to marry from Canaan. There was no such covenant in the days of Abraham and Esau.

And now Esau went attaching himself to the people God planned on destroying, the very Baalpeor matter, you see occurred again in Moses time and God's Judgment was still the same.

Your emphasis was on polygamy. There was no outright law of God that forbade them marrying more than one wife or marrying from Canaan.

Now you see one of the gravity of Esau's discard of his birth right.

His birthright is a different issue from his marital life.

Jacob: Not by his will

But no one forced two wives on him.

Abraham: God never spoke to him to after that unlike before.

No. God continued to speak with Abraham. It was only his association with Lot that made God stop talking to him for a while. Immediately after Lot left for Sodom, God started talking with Abraham and gave him great promises.

David: Was punished far above any man.

Not because of polygamy.

Infact, God told David that He gave him all the many wives of Saul. How can God punish someone for what He gave the person?

The thread is not about polygamy, so leave this issue. Polygamy is addressed in this thread and everything you say and are going to say was said here. And they did not stand.

https://www.nairaland.com/8032594/deuteronomy-17-17-shows-god#128966884

https://www.nairaland.com/8077583/polygamist-god-gave-him-wives

https://www.nairaland.com/8079777/polygamy-gods-punishment-fornication-deut

You were the one who actually raised the polygamy issue as a proof that Esau sinned.

There's nowhere in the Bible where polygamy was said to be a sin especially in the Old testament. God even gave laws regarding how polygamists should treat their children, saying that the inheritance of the firstborn should always go to the first born even if he is not the son of the favorite wife. Elkannah, Samuels father was a polygamist. Boaz, the father Obed, the father of Jesse, father of David was a polygamist. Polygamy was a well established practice in Israel. Even the law of Moses never condemed it.

Esau could not have been said to sin just because he married many wives. Neither can he be said to have sin because he sold his birthright. He didn't seek the God of his father's like Jacob did. If he committed any sin, that was his sin. Not the birthright or polygamy issue. Neither is it the Canaanite woman issue. Ruth was from Moab, yet Boaz married her and he was blessed.

MaxInDHouse:
The two highlighted settles this issue!

If both Jews and Samaritans are wrong as you said then what does Jesus mean by saying "You don't know what you worship, we know what we worship Salvation is of the Jews"?

Of course he was telling the woman that Jews have the true religion.
Note her response to Jesus:

“I know that Mes·siʹah is coming, who is called Christ. Whenever that one comes, he will declare all things to us openly.” John 4:25

Here she's indirectly telling Jesus "why won't you side your own people? After all you are one of them, but when the Messiah comes he will tell us the truth about religion"

So it's about RELIGION.

Jesus himself PRACTICED RELIGION inside the temple of the Jews by assembling with other Jews!

Jesus didn't practice religion. What religion did Jesus practice?

What's the name of the religion Jesus was talking about? What name did Jesus give that religion?

Jesus said "Salvation is of the Jews", He didn't says "Judahism is of the Jews" or "The true religion is of the Jews" but "SALVATION is of the Jews" .

Religion does not bring Salvation, otherwise everyone who practices religion will be saved. But this isn't the case with salvation.

TenQ:
All from the Qur'an dictated by Allah


-Mariam (the sister of Aaron and Moses) became the Mother of Mary
Qur'an 19:27-28


-The Samaritan built the Idol/gold Calf for the Children of Israel during the time of Moses (meanwhile, the Samaritan did not exist 700 years after they left Egypt)
Qur'an 20:85-88, 95


-Alexander the Great (Dhul-qanain) was a Muslim prophet who received messages from Allah
Qur'an 18:89-98)


-Joseph was sold with Dirham (a currency of the Arab) which never existed at the time of Joseph etc.
Qur'an 12:20

Na wa o.

TenQ:
1. If these are true, then the Quran is False

If the Injeel is truly the book of Allah and the book of Allah cannot be corrupted, the content of the Bible contradict the Qur'an of Allah eg. Jesus is the Son of God and Jesus was crucified on the cross






2. If these are false, the Quran is still False
This is the Islamic unsolvable dilemma

If the content of the Bible is false , it means Allah either didn't know the content of the Injeel to claim that the book came from him nor Allah couldn't preserve his word. This makes Allah /Islam wrong again as claimed by Allah.

Thanks for the clarification.

Quasim6 said their Injeel is the revelation Allah gave Jesus which has now been destroyed. Can't these people reason for themselves?

Dtruthspeaker:
True repentance isa very important to however, God has shown us that there are things that repentance will not cure.

Do you not see the bible shows that God held Moses to that speak to the rock affair throughout? Clearly, God did not forgive that one.

God forgave Moses. He continued to commune with him. In fact, it was God who buried Moses by Himself.

Secondly, Esau you say Esau did not sin? My brother, learn to seek for Truth and stop by following the bandwagon. If you followed by Truth you would have see what sins Esau committed that got him to be hated by God eg his taken of a wife from the very people which God had already commanded by that they must not take from, then he did it twice. (polygamy)

God didn't tell Esau and his family not to marry from there. That commandment came during the days of Moses. Esau lived long before Moses and had no such commandment.

from Google
Why did Esau marry two wives?
In taking two wives, [b]Esau acted the same as the men of the Flood generation, who also took two spouses: [/b]one to provide them with offspring, and the other to provide them with sexual pleasure (see Adah, the wife of Lamech).

Remember that Jacob married two wives too. Abraham had a wife and a concubine. David had several wives.

And what the bible meant when He Said Esau despised his birth right.

That's not a sin. It's a misstep. A wrong attitude to life. That's not iniquity or sin. He didn't do wickedness to God or anybody by despising his birthright.

And the bible shows that Esau later understood and had a contrite heart but he could not get forgiveness.

No, he later understood that selling the birthright had a spiritual connotation beyond the ordinary physical eating of porridge. He wanted to retrieve his birthright but it was no longer possible. He however still got blessed but not with the original blessing meant for Firstborns.

My brother let us walk fearfully that we may never do that which can never be forgiven.

Yeah, thanks for the advice brother. There are sins that wound never be forgiven. The Bible says that only sins committed against the Holy Ghost have no forgiveness.

jaephoenix:
You want me to believe you and your family haven’t used a hospital since birth, yet you don't believe there are atheists who have the same privileges, or even better?

Yeah, I don't believe a medical doctor won't treat himself if he has such an ailment. Even a Christian medical doctor would treat himself even though he still believes in God for healing, let alone an atheist who doesn't believe in anything for his healing. So, what were you hoping on to heal you? Or you just decided that your hand should remain paralyzed, and then it miraculously healed? Can you see why I can't believe you?

You still haven't proven that heaven or hell exists, apart from what an old lying book told you.
Bro, I'm sorry to say this, you are a first class clown

I'm not here to prove to you that heaven and hell exist. I'm here to tell you what I enjoy that you can never have. The thread is not about proving heaven and hell but about stating what I enjoy.