₦airaland Forum

jaephoenix:
I was raised a pentecostal. Grace Tabernacle Owerri to be precise.
So are you saying Yahweh is not in pentecostals too?
So what can you say about me

I find it difficult to believe you now. After lying that you, a medical doctor didn't use any medicine when you had paralysis. I can't believe you anymore.

Attending a Pentecostal church is not the same thing as having access to the Presence of God. Many fake churches are around. Attend a true Church and you'll see God.

MaxInDHouse:
"Salvation is of the Jews"
Says Jesus not
"Salvation is of Jerusalem"

Which means the RELIGION practiced by Jews has been right all along if it's about location he would have mentioned the location that was right but he specifically mentioned "Jews" and told the woman that henceforth location won't determine true religion again unlike before when everyone who wants to worship the true God must come to Jerusalem!

No, this twist does not even correlate. The topic was about location of worship. Jesus answered the woman that neither the Jews nor the Samaritans are right. He then introduced the new concept of worshipping God in spirit.

Afterwards, He upbraided the woman and her Samaritan tribe for thinking they were more correct than the Jews on the issue "You do not know what you worship but we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews."

If the matter was about religion, Jesus would say "Religion is of the Jews." His emphasis was on salvation, not religion. Hence "Salvation is of the Jews."

Dtruthspeaker:
Do you know Esau repented? Yet was he not forgiven. Even Moses too.

As you see many people have sinned shocked and they ask for forgiveness and you see this in women but as you see many are not forgiven for and cannot be forgiven.

So it is not about repentance but about not committing a sin God would make God so angry that He would never forgive such a person.

And read it, Saul disobeyed the first time andI God wrote him off but based on the appeal of Samuel, he got a second chance of which Samuel even FORE WARNED him. Yet, saul proved God right again.

My brother, repentance is still key in one's dealings with God. A contrite and humble spirit, God will not despise.

God forgave Moses. He only denied him Canaan. Moses continues to be relevant in God's plan for man.

Esau did not commit any sin. He only made a grave mistake of selling his birthright which cannot be refunded. God didn't condemn Esau for any sinful act. He only made a wrong decision in life that affected his generations. He didn't commit any sin per say.

Saul disobeyed, God made Him know He was angry. Instead of humbling himself and repenting, he was concerned about being honored. He didn't stop there, he murdered all the priests of Nob. He also murdered the Gibeonites, breaking a long standing covenant between the Gibeonites and the Israelites. He would also pursue David all his life to murder him. Finally, he practiced necromancy just before he died. He never retraced his steps back to God. He went on sinning and never repented.

Read the Psalms and see how David was Constantly repenting, asking God to try him and search him out.

"Create in me a new heart oh Lord, and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy Presence Oh Lord, take not thine Holy Spirit from me." This was a prayer David prayed after killing the wife of Uriah. Did Saul ever pray like this? No.

"A broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise." — Psalm 51:17.

This verse above emphasizes the importance of humility and a willingness to acknowledge and repent from one's sins. It reassures us that God values and accepts those who approach Him with a humble and contrite heart.

This was one of the secrets of David.

Dtruthspeaker:
Correct.

And saul even directly disobeyed God , twice.

No, that's not it.

David repented as soon as he was shown in error. Saul on the other hand never repented. He was even telling Samuel after Samuel broke the message from God to him "Honour me now before this people". He was proud, David was humble. This is the difference between the two.

Qasim6:
This is delulu grandeur!

I thought it is a common knowledge that all the canonical gospels are anonymously written.

Nobody knows who wrote all your gospels.

Regardless of what you might think of them, they were the same Gospels on ground in the days of Mohammed. They were the same Gospels mohammed talked about.

The authors of the four canonical Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) are traditionally attributed to specific individuals. Though, the texts themselves do not explicitly state the authors' names but as the time they were written, everyone knows who wrote what.

Today, here's what scholars know:

Traditional Attributions

1. Matthew: Attributed to Matthew, a tax collector and one of Jesus' twelve apostles (Matthew 9:9-13, Mark 3:18).

2. Mark: Attributed to John Mark, a companion of Peter and Paul (Acts 12:12, 25; 15:37).

3. Luke: Attributed to Luke, a companion of Paul and a physician (Colossians 4:14; Philemon 24).

4. John: Attributed to John, one of Jesus' twelve apostles and often referred to as the "beloved disciple" (John 21:20-24).

Early Christian Testimony

The earliest Christian writers, such as Papias (c. 60-130 AD), Irenaeus (c. 130-202 AD), and Eusebius (c. 260-340 AD), confirm these traditional attributions. These people lived at the time when everyone knew who wrote what.

There's Scholarly Consensus on who the authors are.

It doesn't matter what you believe. What you believe is absolutely irrelevant to your soul. In the end, Truth is what matters!

It's even hilarious that you went from "the Gospels you have now are forged" to the "authors are anonymous" without being able to prove any of your false claims.

Are you not familiar with this fact or you just want to be hiding like an ostrich?

Your scriptures both the old and new testament have been fingered.

I'm not familiar with the lies. There's no fact in it. It's all falsehood. Please show me proof of the scriptures being fingered. I've given you clues that might make you use your God-given intelligence!

1. If the scriptures have been fingered, why is the Jewish and Christian Torah the same? Did the Jews and Christians sit together at the same table to finger the scriptures? Think my friend!

2. If the s scriptures have been fingered, why is it that the present Hebrew and Greek scriptures correlate with the the most ancient manuscripts including the ones discovered recently in 2017?

3. If you say that the Injeel of Jesus has been destroyed, who destroyed it? Who first saw it? Where was it ever mentioned in history? Why would anyone be able to destroy a so-called revelation or Allah? Is Allah so powerless that he cannot preserve what he has revealed?

Please show me proof of the fingered Scriptures and let's lay the matter to rest.

AntiChristian:
I like the way you framed your sentence in red! You didn't lie that any two manuscripts of Matthew are ever the same! Two thing can correlate well and still essentially differ much!

You can bring the difference to the open.

We keep telling you guys the truth but you guys keep holding on to the obvious lies told to you by the arabs.

MaxInDHouse:
You don't get it do you?

All Israelites know that the temple in Jerusalem was the one built by Solomon, it's in Jerusalem that Levites were serving as priests under the Highpriest and God has always sent prophets to tell Samaritans that Jerusalem is where God chose even Elijah who was one of the Samaritans kept telling his people that it's Jerusalem all Israelites supposed to worship that's the problem he had with his people because they thought he supposed to support whatever worship goes on in Samaria.

So it's not about where rather it's about which religion is telling the truth.
Samaritans believe that all Israelites are Jacob's descendants {John 4:12} so it's whether the Samaritans are also practicing true religion in Samaria just as Jews or the religion of Jews is the only acceptable form of worship before God.
Note Jesus' response that he made it clear that regarding location it's of no meaning but when talking about the religion practiced in the two places only Jews have the true religion! John 4:20-22

My friend, the Samaritan asked about which place is correct to.worship. Different prophets and false prophets have told them different things. The Samaritans had mount Ebal, the Jews had mount Gerizim. Both believed they had equal stakes and could therefore decide a place of worship. It was Jeroboam who distorted the whole thing when he instituted baal worship in Samaria in the days of Rehoboam son of Solomon. From then on, there had been prophets who convinced the Samaritans that Samaria has the right mountain to worship. The issue was not about religion because they actually had the same religion. This is issue was a hot matter of ongoing debate in those days.

I've shown you from what the Samaritan woman said. I'll show you again from Christ's response:

Here's the relevant scripture:

"Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem." — John 4:20.

This is not a question of religion. Very plain except one wants to deliberately distort the scriptures: "Our ancestors says we should worship here on this mountain, but you Jews are saying Jerusalem is the right place."

If it were a matter of religion, the question would be "Our ancestors say this is how we should worship, but you Jews say your own mode of worship is the best." This isn't the case.

Jesus's answer also reflects that the discourse was on place and not on religion. Jesus didn't practice religion, neither did He establish any!
Here's Jesus' response:

"Jesus declared, 'Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.'"

— John 4:21-23 (NIV)


Jesus emphasized that none of those mounts would matter anymore in the scheme of things.

Jesus didn't says "Religion is of the Jews" but rather "Salvation is of the Jews."

If Jesus was talking about religion, tell me why Jesus didn't say "religion is of the Jews". Why did Jesus says "salvation is of the Jews" when he was talking about religion?

The issue discussed was on places of worship. Jesus answered that places would no longer mattered very soon. Religion lays emphasis on places. Salvation lays emphasis on the state of man's spirit in relation with God.

Qasim6:
This is one of the many lies aka Islam dilemma you all be chanting around.

Qur'an is not calling the forged gospels you have now as injeel. Injeel was a scripture revealed to Jesus. it would have been revealed in Aramaic or Hebrew and it is most likely what Papias was describing.

No scripture was revealed to Jesus. Jesus Himself was a Revelation of God's Word. Papias didn't describe anything. Show us manuscripts referencing this descriptions of Papias.

If a Gospel was revealed to Jesus by Allah, how come the said Gospel became forged? Does Allah not have the power to preserve his own revelations?

Show us proof of such gospel. Show us proof of the forgery you claim on the current Bible.

Our belief has always been the earlier scriptures have been fingered and the message there in adulterated.

Your belief is inconsequential as long as it runs contrary to reality.

Here is what Qur'an actually says about the Bible.

Q5:48
We have revealed to you this Book with the truth, as a confirmation of previous Scriptures and a SUPREME AUTHORITY on them. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their desires over the truth that has come to you. To each of you We have ordained a code of law and a way of life. If Allah had willed, He would have made you one community, but His Will is to test you with what He has given ˹each of˺ you. So compete with one another in doing good. To Allah you will all return, then He will inform you ˹of the truth˺ regarding your differences.

I have asked you to show us the discrepancies between the manuscripts that existed before Mohammed and the transcriptions from those manuscripts which we use today. Bring out disparities from the original Hebrew and Greek texts.

Forgeries in the Bible are merely Islamic hearsays. No evidence. No proof.

so Qur'an is meant to be a supreme authority over the previous scripture and not affirm everything there in.

The Quran is not an authority in anything whatsoever as it does not even accurately describe events. Such blunders as Mariam the sister of Aaron being the mother of Jesus or the Samaritan who was in the congregation in Moses' days, or that Solomon died standing, and the many embarrassing blunders leave much to be desired of it for an authority. There's no single truth in the whole book. It's all fabrications, lies, etc.

That's why:

1. Mohammed has no proof of any angelic visit.

2. Nothing the Quran says in its warped historical narratives has any evidence anywhere in history.

3. There's no evidence anywhere that God endorsed mohammed.

4. There's no manuscript anywhere where mohammed was recorded as a coming prophet. Your Papias reference is flawed as Papias never made any reference pointing to any Ahmad dead or alive in his days.

4. All found manuscripts have been miraculously preserved. Different kings and emperors of Rome tried their best to obliterate the existence of the Biblical manuscripts but God showed His Sovereignty by preserving them. I don't know why Allah could not preserve the so called revelation of Jesus! Did Allah reveal it only for it to be destroyed and not useful to anyone? Why is Allah so powerless that his Injeel was destroyed without any trait?

The same Torah that existed before Jesus is what we're still using today in our Churches. The same Gospel books that the early fathers who lived before Mohammed read in their gatherings are still the same books we use today. Did you even read that Eusebius quoted from our current book of Mathew as far back as 185 AD? Where did you get your forgery tales from?

MaxInDHouse:
The woman wasn't asking about location where to worship rather she's asking for which religion is telling the truth.

The Samaritans have their own religion just as Jews have theirs even though both were the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob but the Jews kept telling everyone that their own religion is the ultimate truth.
That's what the woman was asking Jesus note that Samaritans doesn't despise worshiping in Jerusalem to them all Israelites whether Jews or Samaritans are descendants of Abraham Isaac and Jacob but the Jews will not accept it that they are on the same page with Samaritans.

That's exactly what the woman wants to know!

This isn't true. The Jews and Samaritans actually were practicing the same Judahism, believed in the same prophets and were expecting the same Messiah. They only differed in where, how to worship and some other doctrinal differences.

The woman's question to Jesus was not on which religion was speaking the truth but on where to worship. She was asking who is correct about the place of worship - the Jews or the Samaritans?

The question of the Samaritan woman is VERY CLEAR. Please don't try to distort it just in order to be correct. It doesn't change what is written!

"Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem." — John 4:20.

Simple as ABC!

In response, Jesus answered that none of them are correct. No one would ever worship God again by location but by the spirit.

Qasim6:
My guy you are the one that has been deceived. You are the one carrying a forged book around calling it message of Christ. I'm sorry to break this sad news to you.

My friend, it was the same book that existed before Mohammed, during mohammed and after Mohamed. There's no difference between what we carry today and the manuscripts that existed before Mohammed.

Did Mohammed know it was forged before he declared it as the Injeel? When he declared that the Injeel, was he declaring the forged books? When exactly was the book forged? How was it forged? Who forged it?

This is the false Islamic narrative that has been sold to you in order to prevent you from reading the Bible or believing anything in it. If the Christians forged their own Bible, why is the Old Testament Bible of the Christians the same as that of the Jews? Or did the Jews and Christians sit down at the same table to forge the Torah?

If the Bible has been forged, why would it maintain the original texts, contexts and themes as the oldest existing manuscripts including newly discovered manuscripts of the dead sea scrolls in 2017?

The Bible contains prophecies and words that could be used to test its authenticity. Why would anyone want to adulterate it? Why is the forged book still fulfilling prophecies today?

Of course there is no manuscript that contains that truth, because you guys have nothing other than forgeries.

The forgeries are merely imaginary. They only exist in Islam. There's no evidence anywhere for such. Please get out of the Islamic institutional deceit.

MaxInDHouse:
Hmmmmmmm, are you saying this because you were highly disappointed in what the world call "RELIGION" or you just don't want to know the truth?

I'm not disappointed in Religion because I've never practiced one. I'm talking on the basis of what I know of God from His Word.

For your information Jesus of Nazareth believe in religion according to what transpired between him and a Samaritan woman.

The woman said to Jesus:
"Our forefathers worshipped on this mountain, but you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where people must worship.” John 4:20

Saying the above this woman is directly asking Jesus to tell her which religion is saying the truth between the Samaritan religion established on mountain Gerisim in Samaria or Judaism the religion of Jews established in Jerusalem's temple.

Let's take what Jesus the only begotten son of God have to say about that:

“Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews." John 4:21-22

Here Jesus is telling the Samaritan woman that true religion will no longer be a thing of one geographical location as it has been since the time God established the nation of Israel but as regards the question that woman asked Jesus it's the Jews who were worshiping in the temple in Jerusalem that's been practicing the true religion all along and as for Samaritans they were worshiping what they don't know.

So Jesus believe in RELIGION!

Lol. You actually contradicted yourself:

1. You said the woman was asking Jesus which religion was telling the truth about where to worship God.

2. You said Jesus answered the woman that religion would no longer be a thing of geographical location. Was that the question the woman asked Jesus?

The woman was not even trying to verify any religion. She was only asking for the correct place to worship, whether in Jerusalem or Samaria. Jesus didn't answer her in terms of religion too. Infact the answer Jesus gave the woman should abolish any thought of religion in any human. Jesus said:

1. You'll not need to worship God in any particular place. This is religion. Religion worships God in particular places and in particular formats.

2. Jesus said those who will worship God would do so in spirit and In truth. Religion does not worship God in spirit and in truth. Religion worships God in formalities, rites, rules, dogmas, chosen places, etc.

3. Jesus said "SALVATION IS OF THE JEWS." Jesus didn't say "Religion is of the Jews" because He was not talking about religion. He didn't want religion. He only wanted to save the world. His talk therefore was centered on salvation. His ministry on earth was centered on salvation and not religion.

Qasim6:
Here is how Papias described gospel written by Apostle Matthew

"Papias said that Matthew the Apostle was the first to write a gospel, and that he did so in Hebrew. Papias also said that others translated the Hebrew or Aramaic gospel to the best of their ability. "

The Mathew we ended up with was written in Greek and forged using Marks.

Bring me that original Mathew and I will show you where Jesus talked about the final messanger.

My dear, what do you mean by "that original Mathew!" The earliest earliest surviving manuscripts of the book of Mathew date back to the 2nd or 3rd century AD. These are manuscripts that are about 400yrs older than Mohammed. These manuscripts forms the basis of our current Book of Mathew. There's nowhere in the earliest manuscripts or in the translations where the name Ahmad was ever mentioned. Why are you guys so bendy on being deceived?

1. Early manuscripts of Mathew: Codex Vaticanus (c. 325-350 AD) and Codex Sinaiticus (c. 350 AD) are two of the oldest and most reliable manuscripts.

2. Patristic citations: Quotes from early Church Fathers, such as Origen (c. 185-254 AD) and Eusebius (c. 260-340 AD), provide valuable insights in the book.

Some notable manuscripts of Matthew's Gospel include:

- Codex Vaticanus (c. 325-350 AD)

- Codex Sinaiticus (c. 350 AD)

- Codex Alexandrinus (c. 400-440 AD)

- Codex Ephraemi Rescriptus (c. 400-440 AD)

All these manuscripts correlate remarkably with each other!

Q 61:6
And ˹remember˺ when Jesus, son of Mary, said, “O children of Israel! I am truly Allah’s messenger to you, confirming the Torah which came before me, and giving good news of a messenger after me whose name will be Aḥmad.” Yet when the Prophet came to them with clear proofs, they said, “This is pure magic.”

There's no manuscript anywhere that contains this lie.

Qasim6:
The good news Jesus Christ brought was the glad tidings of the final messanger and also the Kingdom of God that was coming.

Same Kingdom of God prophesied by Daniel.

So, Yeah his message was good news in all ramifications and you guys should stop fooling around with all these nonsense nonexistence Islam dilemma.

There's no news about that! Everyone knew before Jesus Christ that the Kingdom of God was coming. It was no news at all. So, what's the Good News about that as far as Jesus is concerned? The News had existed before Jesus and is not related to Jesus at all.

Jesus didn't talk about any coming prophet. If you think He did, kindly show us where.

The Good News is a message of Salvation. The remedy for perishing souls which is found in Christ alone. That's what the Good News was all about. It has been so before Mohamed, during mohammed and after Mohamed. The Good News has not changed. It only changed in Islam.

MaxInDHouse:
Truth is bitter but no matter how bitter it is we must speak the truth to put Satan to shame.

All so called Abrahamic religions are claiming faith in the same God it's takes deep thoughts to unravel the secret and to know that there is just one religion that belongs to the God of Abraham today!

There's actually no religion that belongs to the God of Abraham. God didn't create religion. He only established a plan of Salvation after the fall of Adam and provided Jesus as a Solution for the problem of sin.

Religion is an invention of man created by different men in an attempt to get back to God after the separation. However, God provided Jesus who said "I am The Way, The Truth and The Life. No one comes to the Father except by me".

No religion leads to God. Only Jesus does.

TenQ:
Mohammed copied many things without knowing the history nor context nor source.
He for instance thought that the Scripture of the Christians is a Single book called the Injeel (from the Greek meaning Gospel)
Mohammed thought that the Torah of the Jews is a Single book and not Five.

Please how did you arrive at this conclusions?

-Mariam (the sister of Aaron and Moses) became the Mother of Mary
-The Samaritan built the Idol/gold Calf for the Children of Israel during the time of Moses (meanwhile, the Samaritan did not exist 700 years after they left Egypt)
-Alexander the Great was a Muslim prophet who received messages from Allah
-Joseph was sold with Dirham (a currency of the Arab) which never existed at the time of Joseph etc.


Mohammed DID NOT know the content of either the Torah nor the Injeel except through Hear-Say

This is the problem of Islam.

These blunders are too embarrassing.

TenQ:
This is not in the Quran o.
It is only in their traditions.

Oh, I see. The Jubril things are only in the hadith.

In the Quran they forgot that Allah says that no single prophet was sent physically to Mohammed,

Please correct the bolded in your post.

The Injeel is not in the Quran but it was acknowledged that
1, The Injeel was a Book (scripture) given to Jesus
2. The Injeel is the Word of Allah which thus cannot be changed or corrupted
3. The Injeel as Book was with the Christians (at the time of Mohammed)
4. Mohammed's name is written in the Injeel BUT the Christians refused to believe in him
5. Christians were commanded by Allah to judge by the Injeel (with them)


Numbers 3, 4 and 5 raises some serious problems for modern Muslims.

All these are meaningless talks. It shows mohammed didn't even know what the Gospels are all about.

1. If these are true, then the Quran is False
2. If these are false, the Quran is still False
This is the Islamic unsolvable dilemma

Please explain these. I don't understand why you arrived at both conclusions.

PROVERBZ:
---

After I was informed that Muslims referred to the teachings and message of Jesus as Injeel, which translates to "Good News" (the very same thing Christians call it), I became even more confused because the title seems mismatched.
The theme of Jesus's message in Christianity is that he brought salvation for those previously condemned by the law. In this context, the title "Good News" makes sense.
Where it does not make sense is in Islam, where it is mismatched. The title for his message in Islam is Injeel, and it also translates to "Good News." The dilemma here is that, in Islam, there is no reason for the message to be referred to as "Good News." It is obviously mismatched. Most of my Muslim friends here would argue that Jesus didn't teach anything new and that, in fact, he preached the same message as the previous prophets before him.
This raises the question: Why is Jesus's message in Islam called "Good News" (the very same thing Christians call it)?

Normally, this would not have been a setback if not for the way the word came about in Christianity: the message of salvation by believing in Christ (something Islam preaches against).

I thought to myself, maybe it’s borrowed from the Christians at the time because Muslims wanted to relate to them but didn’t have a word for it aside from that. However, after researching, I found out that the word Injeel was stated in the Qur'an (the supposed direct word of Allah).


--- cc antichristian antiislam

TenQ, for your reference.

TenQ:
Muslims do not have an answer for this problem.

They have fabricated how Jibril squeezed Mohammed and asked him to read, but hear, Allah emphatically said that no angel was sent to Mohammed.

The question is: Who is telling lies?
Is it Allah or the Muslims?


WIthout lies, Islam dies!

But I thought the incident of the Jubril squeezing mohammed to read what he could not read was also recorded in the Quran. Or what it a hadith that mentioned that?

Someone has also brought up an interesting topic of why the Injeel (Good News) is in the Quran when Muslims don't believe Jesus brought any Good News; He simply taught what other prophets before Him have taught. I think that's a very interesting thread where I would be glad to see your contribution too.

Lol

Many people would be deceived because she mentioned Psalms and called herself a Prophetess.

This OP is practicing juju. It has nothing to do with the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of the Most High God.

A simple prayer of faith is all.you need to get favour. If you walk with God and you enquire of Him before embarking on your visa processing journey, your desire shall be granted. You don't need any juju to get favour as a Christian but most Christians suffer because they're too ignorant, and a false prophetess like this OP will fleece them and even send more demons into their lives!

TenQ:
Thank you sir.
The religion based on fabrications don't notice lies when they memorise the arabic they don't understand.

What is so difficult in answering the questions

1. Is there any other verse(s) in the Quran that says clearly that an Angel was sent physically to Mohammed?
2. Who do you think we should believe in this case, the almighty Allah OR Islamic Traditions ?

I have waited patiently for my friend, antichristian to answer this question to no avail!

PROVERBZ:
it's another Islamic dilemma. They could have argues that it was a word borrowed in other to relate with Christians at rhe time, but this word was also used in the Quran and they claim the Quran is directly from God. Could it be that Allah didn't spot this dilemma

So many dilemmas in that religion, but rather than sit down to understand the Gospel message and critically consider the deceptions of Islam, Muslims would see your exposition as an attack. Some would have attempted to behead you if you have asked these questions in an open market in Kano.

But, as it is, Islam embraced the topic of Christ's message which is the Good News (Injeel) but they rejected the News - the very message of the Good News.

It's Good News in Christendom because there had never been such a message before Christ came on the scene. Christ's message is a message of salvation through Grace which is received by faith. No prophet before Jesus has ever had such a message. Hence, the message is Good News.

What is the Good News (Injeel) of Jesus according to Islam? We'll like to know.

FRANCISTOWN:
1. First of all, the evidence for the existence of Spiderman in real life cannot be found in the comics. If we wanted to believe Spiderman is real, we need a real life proof.
*****
___Second of all. That evidence you are talking about. Please state it and let's go thru it together.

2. Good. Number 1. Childhood indoctrination, Appeal To Authority, ad populum fallacy and delusional disorder , a priori fallacy wishful thinking , and appeal to fear fallacy.

It was that crazy

Who has ever said spiderman is real? On what basis are you looking for evidence?

Yeah, you were a member of the Catholic Church. There's no God in the Catholic church, so the fallacies you described about them is true. The failure of the Catholic Church to manifest God to you is not the failure of the global Church.

jaephoenix:
1. You dont need to go far. I'm an example. I'm far much better than you. Also go to Japan, Netherlands, Iceland, China etc. Families much richer, smarter and healthier than you would ever dream of

Without knowing me, you can never say this. There are Christians in those countries you have mentioned. There are Christians in other countries that are far better than many of them too. But tell me which of them have not used a hospital for more than 35yrs of their lives. I mean they and their families.

2. I was paralyzed in my left lower limb and I have regained full motor control. No hospital. No church. No prayers. That is just the latest miracle.

This is a lie! Given the fact that you're a medical doctor as I can understand, you cannot have such an issue without giving yourself medical attention! You actually don't have to lie to make a point.

3. What do you mean by 'assurance of salvation, visions of heaven' etc? Salvation from what? An imaginary hell? First u have to prove hell and heaven exists

Yeah, you actually can only keep asking. These are still things I have that you can never have. You can never even know them.

jaephoenix:
Lets assume all these claims are true.
Do you know there are atheists that are richer, healthier than you and your kids? So which god is helping them?

You need to point them out first, and let me know the miracles they've experienced in their lives as well as the instructions they have received that delivered them from coming danger. I'll like to know their assurance of salvation, their visions of heaven and their peace and joy that is not tied to their circumstances or situations.

jaephoenix:
This is the definition of delusion pro max. Ask him to prove any of this and hear all kinds of bullshit

Yeah, my life is itself a proof! I have no records anywhere in any hospital worldwide. Not even a simple hospital card!

My children are all 'A' students by the grace of God. All of them! That's not something I or they could have achieved ordinarily.

I can narrate vivid events of great deliverances and miraculous salvation granted us by God after I obeyed simple instructions.

None of us have any hospital card anywhere in the world. We are healthy and sound. No sickness at all. That itself is a proof.

Atheists are the most deluded, most deceived and foolish humans on earth!

Being an atheist is the most stupid decision anyone can ever make!

I have many things that an atheist can never have.

1. I have the visions of heaven. The atheist is entirely blind to this.

2. I have the sure, unmistakable and indisputable assurance of salvation.

3. I enjoy regular communion and fellowship with the Holy Ghost.

4. I command a lot of spiritual authority and dominion in the spirit realm just by mentioning the name of Jesus.

5. I know what my tomorrow holds. I'm not ignorant of my future. An atheist does not even know the next minute. He can actually die anytime like a caged fowl.

6. I have inner peace and joy that is not dictated by the state of my finances or situation. Joy unspeakable that is not tied to things that can be seen.

7. I enjoy miracles upon miracles. Something an atheist can never understand.

8. I have no fear of death because to die is gain for me.

9. I enjoy unusual health because of my walk with God. I've not had any reason to visit a hospital or use any drug for more than 35 years of my life. I have only used the hospital when my wife was putting to bed in our days of childbearing.

10. At my age, my BP is absolutely normal at 100/80. No single sickness in my body.

11. I have not had any reason to take any of my children to the hospital since they were born. They enjoy good health, good academic performances and are all morally excellent.

12. I receive timely warnings concerning unfavorable events before they happen, and I'm able to use my spiritual authority to bring them under control. There are several experiences of this I can readily narrate including a motorcycle accident that God forewarned me of regarding my last born when she was young. I can also recall how my God miraculously delivered two of my children when they were young, from being crushed to death by a moving train with just a simple instruction that I obeyed. If I were an atheist, I would have lost them. Thank you Jesus!

13. I enjoy marital bliss. I married the woman God chose for me, and I have never had any reason to regret my marriage to her. Our journey together has been from victory to victory.

14. My wife enjoys sound health too like all members of my family. Before we married, she was always being rushed to the hospital for some stomach ailments which she had. After she came under my roof, everything ceased. She has not visited the hospital since I married her, except for childbearing.

15. I have faced many challenges including life threatening ones which would have swept an atheist away. By the grace of God I always come out victorious. I do not fear anything in this world because by my past experiences with God, I have the assurance of victory for whatever the future holds. Moreover, I am always given a preview of serious events before they take place.

I'll stop here. The things I enjoy are more than I can write right now. It is foolishness to think that you, an atheist is at par with a Christian who walks in obedience to the Word of God and submits totally under the Lordship of Jesus. You can only compare yourself with a mere churchgoer who doesn't know God. A churchgoer who calls himself a Christian but does not know Christ, neither is he known of Christ. That's not a Christian. That's just a mere religionist who doesn't even know what he's doing. Many of those who you call Christians are like that. You can keep measuring yourself by them in your delusion. They're just like any other person in the world because they have refused to walk according to the precepts of Christ.

It is foolishness of a very high order for you to compare yourself with a few christians who have fallen short when there are many millions of Christians all over the world whose shoes latchets you're eternally unworthy to untie. Even some churchgoers, Muslims, Buddhists, Cultists, Hindus, etc are well above you in the scheme of things. This your delusion and self deceit would lead you into eternal regrets.

Repent, meet King Jesus before it's too late. Atheism is absolute stupidity and deliberate self destruction.

TenQ:
Who Do We Believe In This Case: The Almighty Allah Or The Islamic Traditions

A few days ago , I came across these verses in the Quran and maybe it is my understanding that is incomplete: hence I wish all muslims and the scholars will help me comprehend the CLEAR Words of Allah without Addition or Subtraction.

Quran 6:7
وَلَوْ نَزَّلْنَا عَلَيْكَ كِتَـٰبًۭا فِى قِرْطَاسٍۢ فَلَمَسُوهُ بِأَيْدِيهِمْ لَقَالَ ٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوٓا۟ إِنْ هَـٰذَآ إِلَّا سِحْرٌۭ مُّبِينٌۭ
Had We sent down to you (O Prophet) a revelation in writing and they were to touch it with their own hands, the disbelievers would still have said, “This is nothing but pure magic!”
Quran 6:8
وَقَالُوا۟ لَوْلَآ أُنزِلَ عَلَيْهِ مَلَكٌۭ ۖ وَلَوْ أَنزَلْنَا مَلَكًۭا لَّقُضِىَ ٱلْأَمْرُ ثُمَّ لَا يُنظَرُونَ
They say, “Why has no angel come with him?” Had We sent down an angel, the matter would have certainly been settled , and they would have never been given more time ˹to repent˺.
Quran 6:9
وَلَوْ جَعَلْنَـٰهُ مَلَكًۭا لَّجَعَلْنَـٰهُ رَجُلًۭا وَلَلَبَسْنَا عَلَيْهِم مَّا يَلْبِسُونَ
And if We had sent an angel, We would have certainly made it ˹assume the form of˺ a man—leaving them more confused than they already are.
Quran 6:10
وَلَقَدِ ٱسْتُهْزِئَ بِرُسُلٍۢ مِّن قَبْلِكَ فَحَاقَ بِٱلَّذِينَ سَخِرُوا۟ مِنْهُم مَّا كَانُوا۟ بِهِۦ يَسْتَهْزِءُونَ١
Other˺ messengers had already been ridiculed before you ˹O Prophet˺, but those who mocked them were overtaken by what they used to ridicule.


So, Lets begin:
1. In verse 10: Allah seem to accept the fact that Mohammed is ALSO a Messenger (as other messengers have been sent before Mohammed who also have been ridiculed)
2. In verse 7: Allah said that he DID NOT send the revelations to Mohammed as a printed book from heaven, as the disbelievers would regard it as just magic (they wouldn't still believe anyways)
3. In verse 8: Allah says that he DID NOT send an Angel to Mohammed (even though these disbelievers ask why no angel has been sent to him) because IF he did, their judgement would have been concluded and thus cannot repent again
4. In verse 9: Allah says that IF HE DID SEND an Angel, the Angel would have come in the form of an ordinary Man which would even leave the disbelievers more confused. i.e. Allah DID NOT send any Angel even in form of a Man (not to even think as an Angel)


My Questions:
In Quran 6:7-10 it seems Allah is saying in no ambiguous terms that he DID NOT send any Angel to Mohammed either as an Angel (spirit being) or as a Man (physical being).
However, Islamic TRADITIONS say that the Angel Jibril was the one who always brought the Quran to Mohammed. There is even the elaborate story of Jibril's first encounter with Mohammed where he was squeezed and commanded to Recite!

1. Is there any other verse(s) in the Quran that says clearly that an Angel was sent to Mohammed?
2. Who do you think we should believe in this case, the almighty Allah OR Islamic Traditions ?

Thank you.



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Is there no Muslim to answer these questions? Satmaniac did not answer these questions in my opinion because the issue here was not whether an angel followed Mohammed to the market or not. The issue is that Allah is saying if he had sent an angel 'to', not WITH Mohammed, then the people would have had instant judgement. If he had sent a book, they would say it's magic and would have been more confused. This is not a matter of sending an angel with Mohammed while he went to the market.

And also, Muslims should try and reconcile these verses with the verse that says a certain Gabriel was sent to Mohammed to bring the Quran to his heart.

I trust antichristian with his vast knowledge of the Quran would be able to bail us out.

This is a post dating as far back as 2023. If there are no answers, let's agree that Muslims have been deceived.

AntiChristian:
I am tired of your lies!
I think we can end it here!

You're rather tired of defending falsehoods. You can go and rest.

Kingsempires:
so which christian were dey doing the 1st 3rd century?

Read your Bible now.

There was just one Christianity. No Catholicism or Protestantism or whatever. It was when the Romans brought in paganism that the Church split into two: Eastern Orthodox Church and Roman Catholic Church.

The Eastern Orthodox comprised of the group of Christians who chose to maintain the status quo and shun Roman paganism. The Roman Catholics are the group that absorbed Roman paganism.

Over the years, many eyes were opened in Roman Catholicism which led to protestantism and many other denominations.

AntiChristian:
You lied! It was God talking and boasting! This is so clear but you have a huge affinity to tell lies just to prove a point! In your last AI attachment you included spread as the meaning of Bisatun! So your Bible too used the spread! And in the Greek translation there's expand there! I know you won't agree as your affinity for falsehood is high!

Let me break it down for you as you no sabi English sef.

This is what God the LORD says—

Isaiah telling the people that He has a message from the Lord God.

He who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and its offspring, who gives breath to the people on it and life to those who walk in it: Isaiah 42:5

Isaiah eulogizing the Lord God before delivering His message. That's why it says "He who created the heavens..." and not "I who created the heavens." That's a second person expression. Nawa for you o. Just because you want to lie.

Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer who formed you from the womb: “I am the LORD, who has made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who by Myself spread out the earth Isaiah 44:24

Yeah, He spread out the heavens and the earth by Himself alone. He did not just talk about spreading the earth but the heavens and the earth. Allah was boasting about the earth alone and called himself excellent spreaders.

Listen to Me, O Jacob, and Israel, whom I have called: I am He; I am the first, and I am the last. Surely My own hand founded the earth, and My right hand spread out the heavens; when I summon them, they stand up together. Isaiah 48:12-13

Heaven and earth mentioned again together with the emphasis that He can summon them.

[quoteQur'an 71:19
Sahih International: And Allah has made for you the earth an expanse.

Pickthall: And Allah hath made the earth a wide expanse for you.

Yusuf Ali: "'And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out),

Shakir: And Allah has made for you the earth a wide expanse,

Muhammad Sarwar: God has spread out the earth.

Mohsin Khan: And Allah has made for you the earth wide spread (an expanse).

Arberry: [/b]And God has laid the earth for you as a carpet,[/quote]Just the earth. And you failed to add the excellent spreaders boasting.

[b]After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back its four winds so that no wind would blow on land or sea or on any tree. Revelations 7:1 So Four Corners of the earth = Four Cardinal points! A sphere does not have corners o! Only a flat-shaped earth will have corners! Ask your AI.

You no go school?

It is actually idiomatic expression in English to say "four corners of the earth." But here the reference is to four cardinal points of the earth. The North, South, West and East. That's telling you that the four angels stood at the four cardinal points. One angel each at the North, South, East and West.

I have grown out of it. Apologies for all those ones! Now it is clear to me you can't even see falsehood not to talk of admitting it.

Apologies accepted.

But you didn't apologize for your falsehoods o.

There's no falsehood from me. I hate falsehood, so I won't indulge in it. But you see, I have explained your wrong interpretations above. Don't call anything falsehood until you have heard the interpretation.

Regarding the spread of the earth, I said Allah was boasting about spreading the earth which is a small thing to God. God won't boast about spreading just the earth. You'll see that in all the verses you quoted, both heavens and earth are mentioned. The heavens are right mentioned because the heavens are actually infinite.

You call them Demons we call them Jinn! They are unlike Angels. Angels are made from light. Jinns are created from fire. You don't believe in all these. It's a different belief entirely! And stoning the devil is a way of obeying Allah's apostle in what he did. I have never been there and i still seek refuge from Allah from Satan. So all these your false Christian belief are unrelated to Islam!

My dear, that's gibberish. It's like telling someone who live by the sea that ships are made of rubber.

Hey, we know spirits and demons. Not just believing. Don't tell me I may not believe what you believe about them. That's an understatement. I know them ni. We engage them daily, so we know them.

See, there are Holy Angels who make up the armies of God in heaven. There are different type of angels. They also have varying ranks of hierarchies with the archangels being the highest of ranks.

Then, there are fallen angels. They mostly inhabit the heavenlies. They too have different ranks and are under the authority of Satan. These fallen angels are the gods whom the pagans worship. There are other fallen angels in prison. God imprisoned them because they're too dangerous for mankind.

Then, there are demons. They are basically here on earth and run errands for Satan and fallen angels. They're all other the control of Satan and have fervent hatred for mankind.

Spirits don't practice religion, so none of these have a religion. Religion is a man-made thing.

Now, let me stop here but you see, when your Quran instructed you to conduit us when you're confused, it's because we are very much knowledgeable than you do regarding these things. And I must confess to you, we know a lot.

If I start teaching you right now about the nature, mode of operation and activities of demons, you would open your mouth because I would not only teach you, I'll also demonstrate. I just need to call out a few people you can bring with you, and the demons will manifest and speak out of the people.

I just pray that you have mercy but you see, you're not sincere about seeking the true God.

Your God told you he's a spirit. But he doesn't need to explain what Spirit is? God = Spirit = Demon = Angel= Principalities = Witches = ......Such is the Christian belief. In Islam God is separate. Angels are separate! Jinns are separate! Humans are separate! Despite the Volumes of books written you can quote just one verse that defines the soul and spirit from the Bible? I tire o!

You're just talking ignorantly. Islam is very ignorant. It's not a matter of what Islam says. It's a matter of what reality says. Chai!

See there are only two realms. The spiritual and the physical. There are no four realms where God will be separate, angels separate, demons separate, etc. Only two realms exist. And the inhabitants of the Spirit realms are called spirits. The inhabitants of the physical realm are called flesh. There are many types of spirits as there are many types of flesh. God is a Spirit. His Spirit type is God-spirit. Angels are spirits. Their spirit type is Angelic spirit (This applies to holy and unholy angels). Then there are demons whose spirit types are demonic spirits. Then there are flesh. The types of flesh are human and animal flesh.

This is the real situation of things. If you were to interact with the spirit realm today, you would find it exactly as I have described.

if you can;t prove Yahweh and Jesus knew it then they are similarly ignorant? Allah says the knowledge of it is with Him! But you started with the ignorance claim so i sadly extend it to you! Once again, show us where Jesus/Yahweh defined Soul and Spirit?

Haha. Where did the Jews get the idea of spirits from? The Bible of cause!

I have told you the Bible is full of the activities of spirits. What's even difficult about that knowledge. It's a kindergarten thing. Chai! What's serious about the knowledge of spirits? There are much deeper things to talk about.

I just need you to tell us the constituent/Component of a Spirit and Soul as define by Jesus or Yahweh in the Bible!

And they ask you, [O Muhammad], about the soul. Say, "The soul is of the affair of my Lord. And mankind have not been given of knowledge except a little." Qur'an 17:85 The Jews and Christians know it but it is not defined in their books! So where did they get the message from? AI or Google or human thought!



I never lied! You are the liar for Christ here. Your Bible made similar claims using similar words "Expand" in Isaiah 44:24 and in other places. Even the AI you attached there is "Spread" in it as a meaning. You quickly lied that God was not the one talking whereas YAHWEH is written everywhere in the Hebrew Bible verses boasting as usual - All those I am your God boastings which is normal!

I am not asking you about the operation of the Soul. Tell us what is the Soul according to the Bible? That is what Muhammad was asked? Tell us about the Soul? What is it? What is it made up of? We have references from the Prophet about when the Soul enters fetus, the journey of the soul after death, etc. Tell us what the soul is from the Bible?

So in essence your God is ignorant of what the soul is right?

My dear, let me tell you this. Keep wallowing in your ignorance.

There's no difference between a spirit and a flesh other than one is invisible and the other is not. Both have bodies. Spirits have celestial bodies while flesh have terrestrial bodies.

A spirit does not have a material body. So, you cannot start saying he was made from something. A spiritual body is simply a form taken in the spirit realm for identification purposes. It has no material at all. It is purely spiritual. If it has a material, it would not be a spirit.

Lumarstone:
You can't cheat nature, age is nomore in favour of Tyson.

At least, by now he ought to have retired in the game of Boxing.

There was a time he ruled the boxing world.

Some other person(s) must continue from where he stopped

But you know say he no too old to earn $20m.