Olu317: I thought your moniker "TruthV alue", actually value truth but reverse is the case. Seriously, it is unfortunate with the manner at which you guys keep fleeing after being bashed with gazzeted account ,which TAO11 and others have proven you all wrong even on this your newest diversion from the question you asked me.
Without any controversy, the King of portugal and his portuguese government durin the bilateral trade with Benin wanted to know this great Ooni, king of all kings but clearly Oba Ewaure purported intention was to exchange his farm produce for ammunition,which was not successful with his aggressive approach to acquire military warfare,until late second part of fifteen century when another Oba Bini came to power.
Having clearly, proven to you that the distance from Ughotton to Ileife is untenable for Ekaladerhan to trek to, with fairytale from e-edowarriors. It's known fact that Ogiso Owodo's only Son's descendant, served a Yoruba Prince, Oranmiyan's Son as his Olokun's chief priest in Ughotton.
Lastly, Ughotton being a Port do not show significant about inlet or the creek of being called "bight of Benin" during 1472-1506 of Portuguese . Afterall bight of Benin is from which language ? Britain of course in (1852) to declare it as her protectorate. Beside, Bini is a Yoruba name, either give or take, the reference of this name connect the name to the overlord Yorubas , who dwell in Igodomigodo as the descendants of the king of all kings.
Can you prove benin-ife relationships prior 1897.......
If you can let's begin
But in 1894 Oduduwa was a female god... Hope you're aware...
michlins: For maintenance of ecosystem,we need desserts to remain desserts and shrubs to remain same. There are animals which thrive in the dessert and will die the moment you take it away from them. Same goes for shrubs.
The massive expansion of the human race will kill this planet
Lol.... You can't even breathe respect me.... And know peace
The benin ife relationship was a political move made in the early 1900 by the oba of benin who sort thr help of the ooni for a political unification to strengthen the edo political power and as such he was welcomed as a son Of the yoruba deity Oduduwa
Oduduwa on the other hand is a myth created by Samuel johson
TAO11: Yes he visited many dignitaries, claiming he wants to thank them — cover up.
But where must he first visit? You will find out in the video below.
What are some of the things he must do at his first place of visit? You will find out in the video.
Channels TV News report was live on ground at Ife during Omonoba (king’s child) Ewuare 2’s visit to the Ooni of Ife at Ife:
Go to time-stamp 0:24 to 0:34, and you would find the following words:
“...his FIRST port of call is the palace of the Ooni of Ife, Oba Adeyeye Ogunwusi — where he also paid HOMAGE to all Benin kings believed to have been buried there.”
(1) Why must the Ooni’s palace the first place your oba visits?
(2) Did your oba also pay homage at the residence of the other dignitaries he visited?
Clearly, the other visits are purely face-saving.
First of all, attending coronation a party is not a required traditional custom. In fact, the coronation party svent is a modern innovation.
Secondly, Erediauwa was the Benin king, at the time of the coronation party of the present Ooni. Guess why he couldn’t attend his “FATHER”s” (the Ooni’s ) party. Take a while guess.
Erediauwa was already a dying bed-ridden sick old man as at the time of the present Ooni’s coronation. and he does only 4 months after the coronation to tell you how bad he was bed-ridden. The whole world knows this.
Bed ridden sick dying old people don’t go to parties as far as I know.
But as for prior kings of Benin, whether they attend Ooni’s parties or not (even though such parties aren’t a traditional requirement) that is for you to prove. We are waiting.
Can we see a proof for your claim — even though I personally don’t care if light skinned people or Albinos attend. Talk of low-self esteem for Binis.
Light skinned people came to your oba’s party? Wow!
Now I agree that Benin is GrEaTeR tHaN Japan.
What am I even saying? Oba of Benin owns Japan in the first place. LMAO!
——————— THE ATTACHMENTS:
(1) Regarding your first attached screenshot:
The opinion expressed in that screenshot is of a certain Ryder from the year 1965.
Guess what has happened between 1965 and 2021 in the field of historical scholarship of African history.
The field of historical scholarship of African history has unanimously debunked that opinion from Ryder.
See for example:
A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al.
A summary of this unanimous conclusion of scholars is aptly put in a 2016 publication as attached below in the screenshot below.
(2) Regarding your second attached screenshot:
The fact you truly believe that this screenshot refutes says it all about your grasp of English.
To help your life, I will dumb-down the content:
(A) The general Yoruba tradition is that they and their kings trace back to king Oduduwa of Ife.
(B) The exact words “the heritage of Oduduwa” is not necessarily the same precise wording used by them — but their wording is obviously to the same effect as shows in (A).
(C) There is at least one of these kingdoms (i.e. Oyo) which has something quite strange to say.
(D) This strange claim is found by this scholar (whose screenshot you attached) to be a latter claim which Oyo itself didn’t have/belief ab-initio.
(E) This scholar found that Oyo (being imperial later) then came up with this for propaganda of superiority over its father-Ife.
Having dumbed-down your own screenshot for you, I am aware that the whole of points (C), (S), and (E) may not be very obvious to you from that screenshot.
As such, I will cite the specific passages from the same material where Prof. R.C.C. Law made it clear.
R.C.C. Law writes, while debunking the spurious & strange one-off accounts which intends to challenge the Ooni’s superiority as follows:
“Certain traditions relating to the ancestry of the Oni of Ife appear to have been devised specifically in order to counter the Oni's very plausible claim to paramount status. ... This denial of true royal ancestry to the Oni of Ife offered an opportunity for other kings to claim for themselves primacy of status among the descendants of Oduduwa.” ~ Page 212.
Moreover, after combing through the evidences, R. C. C. Law then summarizes his find on the last page as follows:
“SUMMARY ••• The article considers the political implications of the Yoruba traditions of origin, and seeks to relate the existence of certain variants of the tradition to the use of it for purposes of political propaganda. In particular, it is suggested that the tradition was manipulated and modified in an attempt to support the claims to paramountcy of the king of Oyo, when this kingdom became the most powerful state in the Yoruba area during the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries•••”. ~ Page 224.
Why are you a serial loser?
Peace! Cc: r4bbit, nisai
With your rotten teeth your brothers know i weep your ass daily that's why they hate me the most
Now lets review your comment again
Why must the oba of ife first visit the ooni of ifw.... See the screenshot stop watching yoruba media.....it can get your brain inflicted
Check the date... Trans..... And tell me who the oba of benin visited first
Lion if coronation was an invention of the white please speak for the culturesless coward yoruba people not for the benins and other africans Coronation is not even is a human culture when a king is crown there is merry that day, vassals comes to pay homage
An example was the adesuwa history in benin that led to anioma revolt it happened duribf the oba coronation when the king of ubulukwu Came to pay homage to the crown prince before his coronation....
Tao11... You dey lie sha....
You turned the invitation of the queen representative to a racial one to escape the shame, lol and you soon forget you adorn Charles siting in the middle of nigerian kings, using it as sign that ooni sat next ti Charles and this he is more superior than the oba of benin who sat at the back... Omo if i near you i go beat you ehnn... I go beat craze comot for your head, trolling is allowed but troll with truth
Lastly erediawa was sick no doubt but at then the crown prince who is oba ewuare was already in benin, the crown prince would have Gone to replace is father as custom demand, unless the custom practice was your own imagination.. Lol
The screenshot is inconsequential bunch of confused authors
Confused authors who are supporting male Oduduwa when Oduduwa was actually female in 1894
You are really not smart you are only good in writing epistle and talking lies, you sound very loud on your writeup , if you were smart you wouldn't have replied me back You could have easily imagine my counters but you can't help it can you...
TAO11: (1) The chapter lists and simply explains the attributes of those deities.
The chapter is not about the history of those deities. The book is not about history at all.
So, expecting it to cover the history of those deities (i.e. the beginning of the deification) is a confirmation of the fact there is an embargo on the use of brain from your omonoba’s palace.
Again it is not a history book. Make use of your brain despite your omonobas ban against the use of brain.
(2) If you find a Yoruba history book (an extensive one at that) about Ife, etc. (prior to Johnson’s); and such book does not talk about king Oduduwa in its account of Ife’s kingship, then we can have this discussion.
But for now, all I can say is that you should go against your oba’s embargo which forbids using the brain.
It is always my pleasure to have you as my slave.
Peace! Cc: nisai
Dont use reverse psychology
Bring a document that support odudwa to be a man king and not a blind olosho goddess prior to 1894
You're here lets troll
A lie told during ooni of ife coronation to boost Traffic that queem of England will attend
Not even Brazilian government send a representative they would have invited mc olomo instead, but the thread was later Close for the offensive lie
The second pictures shows the actual attendees if the ooni coronation and the oba of benin his forbidden to go for the coronation of a smaller king
The third pics shows the queen of England who sent a representative to the oba of benin coronation, but non was sent to the coronation of the ifa priest
Representative from ooni of ife coronation notice the oba of benin didn't attend the coronation event.... The suprior kings Doesn't attend the crowning of its own vassal
TAO11: Thanks gregyboy for reposting that eyewitness account.
Benin children want eyewitness only when it talks about Benin in a somewhat good light.
If such eyewitness — Europeans or not — says the truth about their low place in comparison to their Yoruba masters; Benin children activate sore-loser mode.
It is a Benin mental illness actually.
Thank you for helping me prove it.
The readers now know. ————— PS: I will always appear to debunk Benin lies — even if I’m *******
TAO11: Your kings (prior to the 1970s into the 1800s and all the way into the ancient past) have all maintained that their father & overlord is the Ooni of Ife.
Your kings made this confession. The recent political spin of the present king and his father can not erase the already documented facts from their fathers.
And even the revisionists themselves (i.e. the present king and his father) had to come to Ife to meet their overlord (the Ooni) for confirmation & the culmination post ascension rites. See attachments.
In any case, the Yoruba side simply confirm what the pre-1970 cBenin kings said based on extant records. And we brought it to Nairaland. We simply stated history.
Moreover, Mr. Cyril Punch who toured Yoruba cities and was also in Benin wrote in his 1889 Journal that:
“As a town, Benin was inconsiderable compared with places like Ibadan, Iseyhin, Shaki, Modakeke, and Abeokuta. There was no wealth, nor was there even power, except the power of the influence of fetish, and the sense of the spirit of a long past of atrocities, which, if not supernatural, were at any rate unnatural to a degree which is indescribable. I remember the return of two of Miller Brothers' men from a visit they paid to Benin after I had been there. They arrived at Guatun one evening, and showed plainly in their faces the mental strain that their visit had been to them.”
As for the Ife ‘bronze’ sculptures, the quotation here (is from an academic, expert, and professional Art Historian) shows IFE on the same pedestal as Greek, Rome, and Egypt.
“[The Ife sculptures] would stand comparison with anything which Ancient Egypt, Classical Greece and Rome, or Renaissance Europe had to offer”.
~ Frank Willett, “Ife and Its Archaeology,” The Journal of African History, Vol. 1, No. 2 (1960), p. 239.
No such comparison with the great arts of the world is recorded for Benin. Show me one
—————— Regarding the father-Ife/son-Benin classic connection, refer again to the following comments for a harsh reminder (and some trauma) which you were earlier on being endowed with:
This is not true.
Eyewitness testimony/writings from the late-1400s & early-1500s which references the monarch of the Ife kingdom & his suzerainty over Benin kingdom exist.
NB: Yes, there used to be a debate in academia in the 1970s/1980s (between the mainstream scholars on one hand; and one, two, or three others on another hand) over the identity of this suzerain.
This debate was particularly on the usage of the word “east” in those early writings.
In present time, however, there is no single academic historian who holds the notion that this suzerain (of the early writings) is other than the Ooni of Ife [i.e. Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni Ufẹ̀ in the Ife dialect of the Yoruba language].
The symbol ⟨ɣ⟩ being the voiced velar fricative with its consonant sound as in this audio sample.
This conclusion is reinforced by the fact that no king, throughout the Guinea Forest of West Africa matches the specific sacral details given in those early writings, except the Ooni of Ife.
In addition to this significant fact, the debate over the word “east” was subsequently quelled by the fact that from Atakpame (in present-day Togo) to the kingdom of Benin (in present-day Nigeria), from Èkó (next to the Atlantic Ocean) to Ọ̀yọ́-Ilé (not far from the Niger River) Ife is known by the interesting epithet: Ibi ojúmọ́ ti ń mọ́ wá — i.e. “the place from where the sun rises”.
For some written references to the widespread usage of this epithet (in reference to Ife) among the natives of this region of West Africa, please refer to:
(A) Rev. D. Hinderer, “Diary Impression,” June 4, 1851, Ibadan, C.M.S.
(B) R. Horton (1979), p. 89., citing B. Maupoil (1943), A. Akinjogbin (1967:41-43), R. Smith (1969:31), as well as A. Obayemi (1976:206).
This reverential (rather than literal) epithet of Ife informed the literalist Europeans’ writings whose source(s) are Benin spokespersons of their king.
Hence the appearance of the word “east” in the early European writings in reference to the kingdom of the Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni (who is transliterated in the early writings as “Hooguanee”, “Ogané”, etc.).
Side Note: Binis, till today, still sometimes refer to the Ooni as Oghene. Refer to the entry “ɔɣɛnɛ” (i.e. “ọghẹnẹ”) in Hans Melzian’s “A Concise Dictionary of the Bini Language of Southern Nigeria” where its second definition is given as: “Bini name for the ↄni at Ile Ife”
Moreover, another piece of historical evidence which quelled the academic debate on the word “east” (as is seen in the early writings in reference to this overlord) are early maps.
There are maps (e.g. from the early 1500s) which show the phrase Dominion of the Orguene annotated across the western half of today’s Nigeria.
These historical information leaves anyone (not only the historians) with the only logical conclusion that the appearance of the word “east” in those early writings is of course not literal.
In conclusion, contrary to your ignorant assumption, there are writings from the early 1500s (on the basis of interviews of Bini representatives in the late 1400s) which references the king of Ife & his overlordship on Benin kingdom and other places.
Apart from early writings, there are other types of historical evidence which also establish clearly that there exist a classic (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.
These other type of historical evidence which I come to here are classical artifacts from the hard science of archaeology. One crucial examples in this regard is discussed below.
The artifact shown in this link is the image of an Ooni of Ife. ~ S. P. Blier, “Art in Ancient Ife,” 2012, Figure 17.
The Ife naturalism of this artifact, its facial striations, as well as its classical Ife ceremonial costume and the pair of chest ornament help art historians (as well as Benin chroniclers alike) with identifying this image as an Ooni of Ife.
What is very, very crucial here is that this artifact was found in the archaeological deposits of Benin. To be more precise, it was excavated from the royal palace of Benin kingdom.
Furthermore, the production date of this artifact has now been established by science. This artifact is dated, by thermoluminescence technique, to the year 1420 [± 60 years].
~ Calvocoressi & David, “A New Survey of Radiocarbon and Thermoluminescence Dates for West Africa,” 1979, p. 19.
For more pictorial angles (and details) regarding this particular artifact, please refer to:
(A) W. Fagg, “A Bronze Figure in Ife Style at Benin,” British Museum, June 1950, Plate Fa, Fb, Fc
(B) F. Willett, “Ife in the History of West African Sculpture,” McGraw-Hill, 1967, Figure 89.
(C) C. Adepegba, “The Descent from Oduduwa,” 1986, Plate 4.
In other words, a more-than 500-year-old ‘bronze’ cast of an Ooni Ife was discovered in the (archaeological deposits of the) palace of Benin kingdom.
In conclusion, it thus becomes clear that there exists a classical (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.
Again, this conclusion which I have inevitably reached is not mine. This is simply the conclusion of historical scholarship. This can be seen in the following works:
A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al.
A beautiful summary of this conclusion of scholars of African history (some of whose names and works are listed above) is shown in the page below from Adam Knobler (2016), p.47.
Peace!
PS:(1) Omonoba (king’s child) Akenzua II visited Ooni of Ife at Ife.
Not because the Ooni was having a party, but because Akenzua himself just became Benin king.
(2) Omonoba (king’s child) Erediauwa (i.e. Akenzua II’s successor) also visited Ooni of Ife at Ife.
Not because the Ooni was having a party, but because Erediauwa himself just became Benin king.
(3) Omonoba (king’s child) Ewuare II (i.e. Erediauwa’s successor) also visited Ooni of Ife at Ife.
Not because the Ooni was having a party, but because Ewuare II himself just became Benin king.
The three of them were so humble in the presence of their father & overlord.
Who born monkey?
The oba of benin visit all monarchs who attends his coronation do you want me to show you picture of him visiting other monarchs... Lol desperado
If you want to troll atleast troll with truth....
But do you know what the oba of benin have never one day attended ooni of ife coronation inshort nobody not even international dignitaries the last coronation naso we hear say queen if England go send representatives come,... Lol not even mc olomo we nor see not to talk talk of queen of England
But compare it to that of oba of benin coronation ... Yorubas will always be living at our shadows. No wonder they send Tao11 to false fully claim benin history for Yorubas
TAO11: Actually, your question is retar.ded — and it exposes you to be dumber than you actually appear. Yet you think of them as some Nobel winning question. LMAO! I would be shocked to find that you are not autistic.
As I once said, you Binis are actually too foolish to be ignored. Ignoring you Binis means, to you, that you’ve stated facts. You all are a bunch of clowns!
First of all, Benin City wasn’t burnt to the ground during the punishment.
The palace & some buildings were burnt — not the whole city as you put it..
Moving on from that, you disgraced yourself again as always when you thought Ife wasn’t destroyed.
Even the most retarded and autistic of my Edo slaves know that Ife and some Yoruba cities were literally in ruins by the end of the 1800s — courtesy of the civil wars of the Yorubas.
As ravaged as it is, the ruins of the palace (long after the civil war) was described (by a German ethnologist who visited the site in the early 1900s) in glorious and illustrious terms. See some examples below:
(1) “A minute or two after twelve midday the monumental ruins of the Ooni’s “palace” met our gaze. We stood before the portal of the castle in the middle of an enormous square. I sent Bida in to announce us, waited for some time, made my horse climb the high flight of steps and rode through the delicately-carved door of the entrance, across the courtyard and through the dilapidated colonnades with my companions. It was like an enchanted castle. It was so large and noble in design, so superbly pure despite its broken lines, its mouldering to decay and the sordid exterior it now presents. We did not meet a single soul. At last we came to where there were some people, and there, clad in a gorgeous robe of bright green silk, a magnificent tiara on his brow, and shaded by a huge silken canopy, the Oni, the head of the Holy City of Ife’s hierarchy, advanced to meet us with a great crowd.”
~ Leo Frobenius, “Voice of Africa,” (1913), p.77.
(2) “The Palace of the Oni, whose massive walls meet the eye from whatever quarter one approaches it, is that which most impress everyone who visits the Ilifé of to-day. Its front, especially, with the fine open square on which it stands, makes an imposing effect in spite of all its ruin. The masonry of the façade is still in fair condition, although it is denuded and devoid of interest. The walls are more mighty, over a yard broad at the base and some eighteen feet high.”
~ Leo Frobenius, “Voice of Africa,” (1913), p.276.
(3) “Poor Oni! Poor Palace! How are the mighty fallen! Once a glorious edifice here reared itself aloft, built of bricks well burnt, brilliant with colored tiles and sundry other ornament! Here on this very spot, the horses stamped their hoofs; here the breath of life exhaled from many a human victim offered up, while this strange country’s high priests chanted prayers.”
~ Leo FrobeniusLeo Frobenius, “Voice of Africa,” (1913), p.277.
You are a disgrace only to yourself, your family & your friends.
Peace!
There is nothing glorifying in the palace the only thing glorifying was Leo Frobenius poetic words he used to suiting the palace to draw attention he wanted.... For his book
Even after his books was sold out nobody wanted to see the shithole palace
Removing those words you will see nothing special in the palace he saw
He did mention the palace was in ruins he never emphasized on it, what he wanted to sell is attention... Was it not the same guy who dug the ife groove...nigga needed a market for his exhumed ife artworks...
Just imagine someone like afc ryder describing the ife palace na tears we go see... For our Yoruba people.... Afc ryder got no chill
Fear nor allow the Leo Frobenius guy take the picture of the palace.... Bcus the pics of the palace wouldn't have matched his sweet words....
As for the punishment.... Of 1897 against benins abi na according Tao11, by the britsh, the palace was burnt, livestock and foods were seized from the locals living people starving and most houses were burnt by uncontrolled fire.....
I will be waiting for you ro deniel this fact
Ife and the entire yoruba people civil war was ended by the britsh.. Like two sons fighting and their father comes to use kobold to flog them to stio fighting,
Like bombing oyo and ekiti while telling them to cease fire the stubborn ones like ogendegbe were jailed and died like fowl in prison....
The britsh didn't even war Yorubas they use cane flog sense them to stop fighting and called them for colonization... Lol
samuk: Is it too much of a ask to kindly request that you guys should free us. Benin people are already very proud people, but Yoruba claims and attachment is making our heads swell to the point of explosion.
The entire Benin people and the Oba of Benin have been disclaiming Yoruba heritage since 1963, but Yoruba will not let go. Since oba Eweka 2 and oba Akenzua 2 had these fairytales relationship with you guys and allowed you guys taste from the sweetness of Benin history at the beginning of the 20th century, you have latched onto Benin as if it's sugar.
TAO11 tell your people to free us, we are happy with no Yoruba ancestral relationship.
If you guys carry on like this insisting you must claim Benin by all means, the Benin may start passing out due to too much pride. Ejor Tori outrun, let the fallacy of Oba of Benin being Yoruba end, do you want us to start fainting due to too much pride. What kind of forced marriage is this? Tori olorun.
Achieve more than your current achievements and allow Benin to start running after you, you running after Benin is becoming very embarrassing for such self acclaimed sophistication people.
Please don't come back and tell us you are simply stating historical facts because there is no eyewitness historical evidence to back up Benin/Ife relationship until 1897. Ogane wasn't Ife, even if it was, just one reference in 400 years full of written history is not enough to establish a Benin/Ife relationship.
Please also don't come back with some archeological crap. What do I need archeological evidence for when there were actual people around that Chronicled Benin history for 400 years. Show us more evidence from their eyewitness accounts of Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan being mentioned in their written records.
My brother in France is literally bursting out of his seams due to too much pride, gregyboy is running circles around you, schooling you and enjoying himself like there's no tomorrow. Tao give it up, you tried, you have fought a good fight. The truth is just tool difficult to fight against, no matter your weapons. It wasn't your fault that you are now becoming a laughing stock.
She is like a frustrated fellow killing depression by trolling we binis given it up is never possible for her she lives for this.. Bro
She currently studying all material available to get back to us....
I dont know how she manage her time... Its still surprise me bro
I want her to exhaust all materials available to leave her defenseless.... She is almost getting there....
When you have a spare time and you want to catch cruise call her out she is a Yoruba zombie as long as its benin she will comeout..
But telling her to quit is like saying she should end her life
Fejoku: The fulani migration into hausa state began in 1800 by 1820 their jihadist began they overthrew... The hausas kings and established their emirate.... And their jihad continued
Incorrect chronology hence wrong history. Go and read up.
Benin in the mid 1800 was facing internal Civil war, which made the oba of benin loose is life, after the oba death another succession crises began between who would be king... Sucession tussle... By this time benin had already pulled out from trading with the europeans and was facing issues within herself a plague struck benin during this period guess the Spanish flu benins were dieing from unknown diseases.. That was brought by the europeans who always entered benin city to see the oba... So the empire was weak...
You just confirmed my claim that Benin was weak and could hardly protect her own border at the time.
This doesnt not mean it wouldn't bounce back... Because it wasn't the first time benin was burnt completely to the ground and was rebuilt and vassal state were recaptured
This is at best speculative. Kingdoms fall sometimes to never rise again to their former glory e.g. Egypt, Persia, Babylon, Songhai, Ghana etc. There were many guns in circulation in the late 19th century and too much pressure was on Benin from all sides. You even conceded that Benin abandoned Auchi. Warri was no longer cooperating and Agbor already freed themselves. Akure, Ondo and neighbouring areas got weapons enough to fend off Benin. This is the truth. In Igbo history, there's mention of 'Agha Oba na Idu'. This translates to the war of Oba and Idu(Edo). This led to the exodus of EzeChima and other Igbo groups from Benin. That I believe was the beginning of the downfall of Benin. By the mid 1800s, Igbo kings on the banks of River Niger (Aboh and Onitsha) never mentioned anything about one Oba of Benin. He had no influence anywhere near them. I hope you know about the Ekumeku war our Aniomas fought with the British at the same period. This is what Benin could have faced by that time. The glory of Benin had departed at the time never to rise again.
But there is a story of ekpende shrine in benin he was a powerful diviner, who was sent by the oba of benin to warn the jihadist against trespassing edo territories... He was believe he disappear from benin to auchi environs and when the jihadist saw is mythical powers they redrew back....
You're kidding me! You mean a whole kingdom had to send a telepathic wizard who doesn't understand the language of the enemy to go and threaten them not to invade and the invaders ran away? I hope you don't expect me to believe this fairy tale. Where was the Benin army to protect your boundary at the time?
But kogi their nearest neigbour was already conquered making it easy for social and peaceful pentration of islam from neighbouring islamic areas like 6kogi to influence their edo neighbours auchi
Kogi wasn't conquered like you want us to believe. The same thing the fulanis are doing today is the same thing the Nupe/fulani combination was doing to Kogi at the time. This got the Igala weakened but there was no defeat like was obtained at Ilorin. This is why there are no emirs there.
As for the yoruba raids like ibadan the news came to benin late but when the oba heard of it he sent an esan army to dispatch the Ibadan slave raiders out of edo north... And they fled
I'll need to read more about this. I can't respond to it now.
This were all attended to when benin was in severe crises within herself... But non of this invaders could even come to esan areas because they were stopped at their first attempt and they withdrew the benin and esan were untouched by any invaders You just didn't realize that Benin was on steady decline by this time and her chances of recovery was gone. From once controlling Eko in Lagos to losing Auchi and even tiny Warri. Benin city was devastated from inside that led to a lot of displacement. Benin was not going to recover from it at the time. Other people had guns too by the mid 1800s. You know the Benin/Igala war and how it went until the Portuguese guns arrived. The glory days of Benin was over. In fact she would have struggled to defend herself against other tribes in 20th century if the British hadn't come.
So don't mind the yoruba coward TAO11 TAO11 is an adept Yoruba historian but I don't agree with her that it was Ibadan that led to the fall of Benin. It is not true. I only agree that if the British didn't come for colonization, Ibadan could have threatened Benin badly if the Yorubas managed to stop their own civil wars.
Are you aware benin participated in the yoruba civil war that spanned from 1820s to 1880s benin was the supplier of artillery they used un the wars
You haven't read ebough... Bro
Go and read the eye witnesses account of a yoruba man who saw the war happen abd wrote about it samuel johnson 1897 the history of yorubas
Benin had much weapon at her disposal... Bro You just Haven't read, the britsh feared the weapons benin had would outmatch the ones they had, they had to write to england send in submarine, gun machines in 1897 when the benins abushed and killed the britsh men...
Thats for that...
The you countered the point i gave on the fulani expansionist year.... On the hausa people i dare you to prove me wrong on that...
Benins always recovers from her internal coflict there was many civil wars numerous that benin faced that even the European noted from 1400 to 1800 succession crises was always one of them...
The europeans wrote in 1600...benin was burnt to the ground and was more like a village and yet benin overcame and rebuilt itself
Lastly.... Go and read the benin wars on eastern yorubas of 1800, this was the year ypu are asumming benin was declining...
Benin was sanctioning her vassal state despite Facing internal crises at home benin was so large enough that when the britsh invaded half of benin army wasnt even in benin
A Kure was sacked in 1897 by benin for refusal to pay tribute....
Just go and read bro you cant ve too knowledgeable on other people's history...
Lastly the Portuguese guns didnt help the benins win the war against idah... Tho their effort made imapct anyway...
But queen idah.. The benin queen mother was what made the benins win the war.... Of the benin idah war of 1600 ad Thats why she is the face of festac mask.... The benins were somhow weak to the idah invasion because there were betrayal inside bini who told the igalas how to outrun benin walls and moat....
All this fact are backed up with European writings if you need them i will supplier you
TAO11: (1) The chapter lists and simply explains the attributes of those deities.
The chapter is not about the history of those deities. The book is not about history at all.
So, expecting it to cover the history of those deities (i.e. the beginning of the deification) is a confirmation of the fact there is an embargo on the use of brain from your omonoba’s palace.
Again it is not a history book. Make use of your brain despite your omonobas ban against the use of brain.
(2) If you find a Yoruba history book (an extensive one at that) about Ife, etc. (prior to Johnson’s); and such book does not talk about king Oduduwa in its account of Ife’s kingship, then we can have this discussion.
But for now, all I can say is that you should go against your oba’s embargo which forbids using the brain.
It is always my pleasure to have you as my slave.
Peace! Cc: nisai
Is that all Tao11, it's not an history book is this now your new excuse, you used it for ajayi crowther i pitied you now, you're using it again
Truthvalue: I defer to you and Samuk to reply the transgender, I just can't reply a person that illogical.
1) leo frobenuis said ife were Atlantis 2) leo frobenius was trying to "sell" his "discoveries" in ife a and get fame and funds by making all sorts of fantastic claims about ife. 3) weird enough, ife was colonized before 1897, yet no talk by the british about a magnificent ife palace, no drawing of it, no eyewitness document at all, no picture... Instead the british started building ife up in 1912, and magically one year later, the so called magnificent palace of the oni of ifa is discovered by frobenuis and is seen by him and only him in the entire world, just like atlantis ife as well.
4) and ofcourse the document is not provided by the transgrnder, which makes any talk about this a talk in a void.
Lol tag all her yoruba brothers to see her humiliation so they would know we are choking them out
Truthvalue: Gregyboy, I defer to you and Samuk to talk to the transgender, I just can't, I don't understand how a human being could be so retarded like the transgender. "Leo frobenius 1913" describing a palace seen by nobody but him and a palace which was never destroyed, yet the current palace of the oni of ifa had to be built in 1930's.
It is almost as if leon frobenius was making a sales speech about something which never existed. Never drawn by eyewitnesses and never written about by eyewitnesses.
Also, ofcourse the so called article is not provided yet again, the transgender which means as usual the trangender is talking in a void and so am I to respond to that nonesense. I restricted my reading of that rubbish by the transgrnder to one sentence.
In my resesrch through this benin-ife myth i found out some writers could be desperate
Like Leo frobenius
She needs to provide a picture of ife palace prior to 1913
TAO11: Actually, your question is retarded — and it exposes you to be dumber than you actually appear. See why below:
First of all, Benin City wasn’t burnt to the ground during the punishment. The palace & some buildings were burnt — not the whole place.
Moving on from that, you disgraced yourself again as always when you thought Ife wasn’t destroyed.
Even the most retarded and autistic of my Edo slaves know that Ife and some Yoruba cities were literally in ruins by the end of the 1800s — courtesy of the civil wars of the Yorubas.
As ravaged as it is, the ruins of the palace (long after the civil war) was described (by a German ethnologist who visited the site in the early 1900s) in glorious and illustrious terms. See some examples below:
(1) “A minute or two after twelve midday the monumental ruins of the Ooni’s “palace” met our gaze. We stood before the portal of the castle in the middle of an enormous square. I sent Bida in to announce us, waited for some time, made my horse climb the high flight of steps and rode through the delicately-carved door of the entrance, across the courtyard and through the dilapidated colonnades with my companions. It was like an enchanted castle. It was so large and noble in design, so superbly pure despite its broken lines, its mouldering to decay and the sordid exterior it now presents. We did not meet a single soul. At last we came to where there were some people, and there, clad in a gorgeous robe of bright green silk, a magnificent tiara on his brow, and shaded by a huge silken canopy, the Oni, the head of the Holy City of Ife’s hierarchy, advanced to meet us with a great crowd.”
~ Leo Frobenius, “Voice of Africa,” (1913), p.77.
(2) “The Palace of the Oni, whose massive walls meet the eye from whatever quarter one approaches it, is that which most impress everyone who visits the Ilifé of to-day. Its front, especially, with the fine open square on which it stands, makes an imposing effect in spite of all its ruin. The masonry of the façade is still in fair condition, although it is denuded and devoid of interest. The walls are more mighty, over a yard broad at the base and some eighteen feet high.”
~ Leo Frobenius, “Voice of Africa,” (1913), p.276.
(3) “Poor Oni! Poor Palace! How are the mighty fallen! Once a glorious edifice here reared itself aloft, built of bricks well burnt, brilliant with colored tiles and sundry other ornament! Here on this very spot, the horses stamped their hoofs; here the breath of life exhaled from many a human victim offered up, while this strange country’s high priests chanted prayers.”
~ Leo Frobenius, “Voice of Africa,” (1913), p.277.
You are a disgrace only to yourself, your family & your friends.
Peace!
What year was this quote made.... And why was there so many pity on the palace looks than praises....
Regarding your latest innuendos in your reply here:
(1) Again, S. A. Crowther’s 7-page brief side-step (out of his grammar book of 202 pages in sum) actually deals with only two things, viz.
(A) The account of origin/creation in Ife.
(B) The account of some of the kings of Oyo.
The first of these two is an allegorical creation story which no historian claims is literal history.
Neither did I claim it’s literal history at any point. This is simply a story foundational to religious beliefs.
It is an allegory, and as such may feature names, etc. that keeps changing from source to source.
For example, the Ifa source (Odu Oturupon-Wonifa to be precise) gives the names of these heavenly beings as Oduduwa, Orunmila, et al.
And there are books on the Yoruba people’s religion, etc. (published before Johnson’s history) which shows the name Oduduwa as one of these heavenly deities. See A.B. Ellis (1894).
Away from religious story and back to history now: In the whole of his 7 (out of 202) pages brief remark on the accounts of the Yorubas, his only touch on history is the half on Oyo and some of its kings.
No where in his very brief remark on “history” (in the grammar book) did he mention anything that has to do with the second dynasty of kings in Ife.
As such, your iSsuE of the OmMisSiOn of Oduduwa’s name from Ife’s history/kings is actually a very classic example of an absurd counter discourse. grin
If I come to this world a second time, I will still choose you as my slave. wink
(1) First of all, the context of comment in relation to which you’re replying here is shown in the embedded comment shown above.
From that comment, it is clear that the specific point there was about a deified Oduduwa — a deity — not the historical personage who himself was the deified.
(2) The word “deified”, by the way, “refers to the idea of elevating a human to the status of a deity usually after such person has passed on.
In such cases, the human-gender doesn’t necessarily determine the deity-gender.
In other words, a historical man may be admitted into a pantheon as a male deity, or a female deity, or as both.
In Benin kingdom for example, despite the historical Oduduwa being recognized even there as a man, he is deified as both a man, and a woman.
(3) Your screenshot (which reference I provided) is on a deified Oduduwa, in the specific context of religion.
The title of the book makes it clear that it is not about the history of Ife, etc. It isn’t even a history book at all. Its title makes this clear.
Moreover, the chapter’s title also makes it specifically clear that it is about divinities not the actual humans themselves. The chapter’s title reads as “CHIEF GODS”.
As such, the reference I gave to a non-history book is in agreement to the point I was making. And the point I was making on that thread, quoting word-for-word, is that:
“And there are books on the Yoruba people’s religion, etc. (published before Johnson’s history) which shows the name Oduduwa as one of these heavenly deities. See A.B. Ellis (1894).”
(4) And why did the issue of deified beings come up in the first place?
It came up because Crowther didn’t write about Ife’s history — being that he is a linguist and as such is concerned with grammar books, etc. — but at times devotes a very minuscule pages to accounts of some stories/histories in the introductory remarks.
In one of the introductory remarks, he touched on the story of creation at Ife, which features heavenly beings — not historical beings — whose names differ to an extent from the names given to the heavenly beings in some other version.
It was in this context (i.e. the context of deities) that I cited Oturupon-Wonifa as well as A.B. Ellis (1894) for the names Oduduwa, et al.
(5) Johnson’s later work, on the other hand, is a work on history (a comprehensive one at that), and as such covers the history of the Yorubas from the beginning to the king-Oduduwa period and all the way to the 1800s.
(6) In sum, the issue of omission does not come up in the case of Crowther because his grammar work (with some accounts) is not intended to (and did not) cover all the way up to the king-Oduduwa period.
Similarly, A. B. Ellis’ work (which focuses on religion, etc.) is obviously not a history book, and as such is not supposed (and did not) cover anything about king Oduduwa.
The specific mention of Odua in this work was clearly shown under the chapter entitled “CHIEF GODS”. In other words a deified Odua whose gender doesn’t necessarily follow that of the actual human who was deified.
In recognition of this unique gender-phenomenon in the deification of Yoruba personages, R. F. Burton in his 1863 publication writes in the * footnote of page 186 as follows:
“The fact that this deity is male, female, and hermaphrodite, is a fair specimen of pagan vagueness.”
Moreover, I have also alluded already to the kingdom of Benin where king-Oduduwa is of course known to have been a man, but is in the same breath deified as both a male deity, and a female deity.
God created you so I can have someone to mock. You remain my rag forever and ever. Amen. cheesy
Tao11, if he was deify Definately the 1894 account should have stated it, when the history was been given out by the local... Abi . They would first start on Oduduwa life on earth before they will start the imaginary one im heaven
You mean Oduduwa was represented as man and woman in benin history was that after 1897 if it was, its invalid
But anyway you can bring it let me see for my own curiosity
I still want to see where Oduduwa was refferd to a man prior to samuel johson book of 1897
nisai: Why are you being so impatient? You know no one whips you better than Tao11. She's the best in flogging pigs without splashing the mud. A great lecturer I must say.
See, emotion or ego cannot save you from history. History is a past record of events. It must be recorded has it occurred devoid of emotion or ego or lies. So stop working out yourself over nothing. Don't confine yourself to only Bini self-serving accounts. Read other accounts too like Tao11 and fix the pieces together in other to form a factual conclusion.
All these ridiculous superiority debate with pseudo-history is not necessary.
Are you saying the 1894 account of oduduwa is a benin account
Get my views first off all
My viewers are Oduduwa and Oromiyan were mythical idols samuel johson turned into human figures with his book in 1897
And the Benis attaching herself to yoruba history of oduduwa was a political move in the early 1900...
And was not historical and so the benin monarchy is edo
Truthvalue: The transgender is an uneducated and retarded propagandist, so retarded that the only explanation is mental illness which is independently visible by the transgender's obsession with both Benin and myself.
Romance › Re: I'm commiting suicide today by gregyboy(m): 11:18am On Aug 10, 2021
