₦airaland Forum

LordReed:
So the god gave me a brain to bypass it when it comes to him? Well that doesn't make sense either. In any case I am happy to take my chances, if there is a god that gave me a brain to reason with but says be foolish in other to please me then he is the one to blame not me.

Lol... if you say so.

LordReed:
Please stop with the ancient history I am asking about present day. So once again the question is do you think visions are a sufficient evidence? I just listened to someone who said Freya the Norse goddess walked bodily into his room and spoke not only to him but his wife also, does that convince you that Freya is real and alive? Note this guy also used to be a Christian.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWyZ3Xdz3k0

Here is someone else:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I4BOQS1Edo

How is Bill Wiese and Kenneth Hagin ancient history? These are things that happened in modern times. Sigh. There really is no convincing you is there? I just feel sorry for you atheists. Especially you who used to be a Christian and know about the Gospel. There is a greater condemnation to those who knew the truth and rejected it. Sigh.

And I'm sure that when you're in hell being punished you'll remember these conversations you had with Christians and will be full of regret and remorse but it will be too late. I just hope that at some point before you die you reconsider your beliefs and turn to the living God. Sigh.

LordReed:
I just told you I saw Jesus and he told me it's all in your head, what reason would I have to lie?

Here are some Buddhist NDE experiences:

https://www.nalandawest.org/near-death-experiences-buddhist-perspectives/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXt4PgZEjwI

These are not the same thing and you know it. None of these say anything about seeing buddah. And they are not as clear and detailed as the accounts I shared with you.

FatherOfJesus:
What kind of question is this?
Evidence is evidence, it doesn't mean any other thing

That's the thing with you atheists. When you say evidence you are really just asking for evidence that fits your paradigm and not the one that is readily available.

sonmvayina:
You are the one making the judgment, both are stories about a man that was sent to earth, that you choose to worship one and discard the other is nothing short of ignorance..

They are both characters in a story...

Nothing more, both where brought to you by onyinbos

Okay. If you say so. Let us also discard all the good things brought to us by the white men na. Because the white man can never give us anything good after all.

A man is a man, a woman is a woman. Period!

You can play mad scientist all you want it doesn't change the facts.

Me covering myself with feathers and making the same sounds that a chicken makes doesn't make me a chicken.

So you can modify your body parts all you want but the truth still remains.

If you are born a man you are a man. No amount of surgery can change that.

FatherOfJesus:
Show me evidence for creation, Jesus, miracles and answered prayers, I will change my mind

What do you mean by evidence?

LordReed:
So if a Buddhist has a NDE and sees Buddha it's a sign I should become Buddhist?

BTW I don't think people in general are lying about their experiences even though some of them do lie to make theirs seem more significant but I think the situation more complicated than people think and it is only complicated because our brains are complicated. All those experiences are all in our heads. I had a dream and Jesus told me so in the dream, do you doubt my experience?

Okay, so I don't know of any accounts of people who saw buddah during a near death experience/

It is impossible for people to all see the same thing when they have a near death experience. Especially atheists, because they don't believe in those things.

It is more than the brain. Normally when we dream we forget the things that we dream almost immediately after waking up. But these people don't just see they also feel and experience things the same way they would if they were to experience them in the physical world.

Also, what reason do they have to lie? Its not like they receive money for sharing their testimony

LordReed:
How is people testifying that someone was alive 2000years ago evidence that he is alive today? I didn't ask for evidence that he resurrected, I asked you for evidence that he is alive at this moment.

Asides from appearing to people over 2000 years ago He still appears to people presently. He appeared to Kenneth Hagin severally when he was alive, He appeared to Bill Wiese when He gave him a vision of hell and apart from those He still appears to people till this very day. There are numerous accounts of this on youtube. Did you even watch the videos I shared with you on our other conversation?

Oh and by the way, the early disciples didn't just win people over by simply telling them about Jesus' appearances... there were signs and wonders that followed their testimony which were indeed confirmations from God regarding their testimony about His Son. People believed when they saw the signs. This is properly documented in scripture.

ignis:
Apostle Paul mentions the gift of discerning of spirits in 1 Cor. 12:10

Discernment and discerning of spirits aren't the same thing.

LordReed:
1. It doesn't make sense that this is the solution an all wise god came up with.

2. It doesn't make sense that infinite punishment for finite crimes is considered justice.

3. It doesn't make sense that the so called loving god will waste 99% of the human population because they can't meet some impossible standard. And I am being generous because I doubt even 1 person can meet these impossible standard but I understand you think the blood of Jesus saves you from hell so I can grant that some people have lived so well that their shortcomings are covered by the blood of Jesus. However those people will be or have been exceptionally rare going by what we know of human nature.

4. It doesn't make sense that being unable to have faith in an insufficiently evidenced god is grounds for infinite punishment. There are probably billions of people who never believed in your god mostly because they never heard about him but your god is going to toss em in hell all the same.

5. It doesn't make sense that the god knew this infinite punishment for the vast majority of humanity was going to be the outcome and still went ahead to create humanity exactly as he envisioned.

6. It doesn't make sense that people will suffer such debilitating hardship all their life and your god will cause them to suffer infinitely.

I am sure if I reason some more I can point out much more why it doesn't make sense but these are the ones at the tip of my fingers.

Isa 55:8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," says the LORD.
Isa 55:9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts.

You need to understand that your thinking is finite. God doesn't reason the way that man does. God's wisdom is foolishness to us and out wisdom is foolishness to God.

Of course it doesn't make sense to you. Why would God infinitely punish people for finite crimes? But that's the beauty of faith. It means we accept God's truth even when we don't fully understand it because truth be told no one can completely understand God's entire revelation.

All I know is that the same God that offers infinite punishment also offers infinite mercies and I am blessed to be among the few who know the truth about God.

If you are waiting to fully grasp the wisdom of God before accepting Him then you'll wait forever because you'll never fully grasp it.

Kenneth4u205:
Hmmm are u saw you are a christian.its in the Bible.Read 1 Corinthians 12:10.

"To another the working of amiracles; to another prophecy; to another *discerning of spirits* ; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of dtongues:"

That is exactly what I am saying. It doesn't say discernment but rather discerning of spirits.

sonmvayina:
Looks like you are a JJC .

We have shown countless times here that is is a forgery...
You need to keep up..

Tell me do people pray to superman? Do people devote their lives to superman? How can you compare comic books to scripture? There is no comparison.

Kobojunkie:
Paul cannot be in Heaven at this time because Jesus Christ, the one who is His supposed master, the bridegroom, said no one will enter into Heaven until after He comes to judge His bride and take them into Heaven Himself!
According to Jesus Christ, everyone who believes in Him , including Paul, sleeps in the grave awaiting His return.

This is simple... either Paul is the one you bow to or Jesus Christ - you cannot bow to both of them at the same time. So you need to chose who you serve in these things. If you don't believe Jesus Christ, then I doubt He can help you in this or anything else.

You are clearly deceived. Continue.

MaxInDHouse:
You quoted the scripture out of context Sir!

Paul was here referring to the time when God's Kingdom has taken over from worldly authorities {Daniel 2:44} it has been prophesied {Jeremiah 31:31-34} but for the main time Apostle Paul urges all JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES to remain OBEDIENT to the teachings of the GOVERNING BODY:


Remember those who are taking the lead among you, who have spoken the word of God to you, and as you contemplate how their conduct turns out, imitate their faith! Hebrews 13:7

Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over you as those who will render an account, so that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you. Hebrews 13:17

No wonder Jesus' command says

Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit,  teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things! Matthew 28:19-2

So Jesus emphasized on the need for some to continue TEACHING others in his group until the conclusion of the system of things when such will no longer be!

Lol... Mad max... Like i said before and will say again... keep deceiving and being deceived. Grace to you!!

elated177:
What is there to misunderstand? It is plain enough for all to see and comprehend.
You called him an atheist. You should really admit the error. Prior to that event, did Thomas believe in the Messiah?

You obviously misunderstood me so let this conversation end.

Kobojunkie:
The silly about folks like you is you like to read your delusions into what is written rather than let it read itself to you.

When Jesus Christ said He goes to prepare a place, He didn't say and you are coming there immediately you die, so I am not certain why you would assume that given Jesus Christ never made that statement. To the same disciples, He made clear on several occasions, this throughout the Gospels, that He would back to take them with Him.

Also, I didn't pick one scripture, I picked the entire Gospel as taught by Jesus Christ- Matthew, Mark,Luke and John - where Jesus Christ clearly made it known to His followers that He would have to return to take them to where He is in His Father's Kingdom.

Again, I can't help you if you don't believe what Jesus Christ taught His followers.

Okay, so you're saying that Paul was delusional for believing that when he died he would go to Heaven? You are saying that when Stephen the martyr died he was delusional for asking Jesus to receive his spirit? So you're saying that aside from the Gospels the rest of scripture is inaccurate?

sonmvayina:
Exactly....where else do you hear about superman outside of the comics ?

That's not the same thing and you know it. Also, there other historical documents that talk about Jesus' crucifixion and supposed resurrection. One of them is Josephus the historian.

LordReed:
So you would accept any other religion's book and testimonies as evidence that they are the truth?

There are even accounts of people from other religions dying and seeing hell. Muslims, etc.

Did you even watch the videos? What do you have to say about them? Do you think the people are lying? Why would they be lying? The atheist died as an atheist and has absolutely no reason to lie.

Kenneth4u205:
Lol I understood you perfectly.Dont ever try to confront Demons if you don't have strong spiritual gifts of discernment .also your spiritual eyes must be fully opened.or else they can lie to you .we only allow demons to speak so that those without spiritual eyes can learn .we doing the deliverance can look into the spirit realm and see things for ourselves by the gift of the Holy spirit. The demons are just confessing what we have already seen spiritually.if you give orange � to a blind man ,then you can lie to him that it was grape or apple you gave him. But you can't do that to someone with good eyes because both of you can clearly see that it was orange.thsts how things work . If demons sees that you are spiritual blind ,they can try lying to you.

Also every revelation must be judge by the word of God . That is the basic standard for every Christian.But as you go deeper with God and start interacting with host of heaven's. The living creatures,24 elders , warrior angels and the Holy Ghost.you will see and hear deep thing's that you can't find the explaining in the Bible .only the Holy spirit can step in and explain such things to you. It happened to apostle Paul on 2 corrinthians chapter 12:1-4. Apostle Paul was taken to heaven and he saw things that can't be explained by physical words.no word in the Bible to explain it .he was just speechless.

Most Christian currently walking with God on the surface level. But there's another level call the deepest if one is ready to pay the price

Okay... but there is no such thing as the gift of discernment tho... it is no where in the Bible.

MaxInDHouse:
I agreed with this 100% because Jesus said about his future followers:

“I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word" John 17:20

So according to Jesus there will be some who are given the spirit to TEACH others {Matthew 28:20} while the Holy Spirit TEACHES this ones {John 14:26} they in turn will be TEACHING others in the congregation! Hebrews 13:7,17 compare to Matthew 24:45

Therefore it is impossible for anyone to pick up the Bible, read and understand without those given the spirit to TEACH others {Ephesians 4:11} that's why there's contradictions everywhere as each person just wake up one day and gather people in a place only to become their pastor then start contradicting the others so that all of them are claiming huge religious titles yet there's no unity unlike Jehovah's Witnesses who are united globally in the same line of thought! John 17:22

It's God's plan to bring millions of people together under one umbrella and make them surrender weapons so that they're no longer training for wars {Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3} is what your friend is against not Jehovah's Witnesses.

He has been blinded by Satan who is the God of confusion {2Corinthians 4:4} so that the fine WORKS of God's Holy Spirit which has produced good fruit in the midst of imperfect humans that what he is condemning unknowingly! Matthew 12:31-32

Lol... MaxInDHouse the comedian you failed to quote the scripture that says:

Heb 8:11 - None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them

Under the new covenant all can know and understand God because all have access to the scriptures



Mad max... keep deceiving and being deceived.

LordReed:
Present it first, everything is up for discussion. The fact that to you your evidence is inviolate does not apply to me.

1. The appearances. After He resurrected He appeared to all His disciples at different times and also to 500 disciples at once and also to the apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 15). This is why His disciples believed that He had risen from the dead. Some have argued that all the people who saw Him alive were hallucinating but the fact is that His disciples weren't expecting Him to rise from the dead at all, because they weren't expecting Him to do so and they wouldn't have jumped to the conclusion that He had risen from the dead when He appeared to them. Also, it is impossible for 12 or 500 people to hallucinate the same thing at the same time.

2. The empty grave. The disciples checked the grave to see if He was still there and if He was still there they wouldn't have gone around telling everyone that He has risen from the dead. Even the Pharisees knew that He had risen from the dead because the soldiers guarding the grave went and reported what had happened to them. One may argue that someone may have carried His away to hide but that wouldn't have led the disciples to conclude that He had risen from the dead and also, the soldiers guarding the tomb wouldn't have gone to report what had happened if the body was simply stolen.

3. The conviction. The disciples faced strong persecution because they preached that Jesus had risen from the dead. If indeed they were lying they would have fessed up when they were being beaten and tortured.

LordReed:
No, since such a thing doesn't make sense to me.

Why doesn't it make sense?

FatherOfJesus:
What if everyone believes the other person is going astray like you do. I can also say that you are going astray being a Christian.
Be tolerant, don't think you beliefs are the universal truth dude.

Don't be a fanatic

Truth is absolute and not relative. In the end the truth is that only one of us is right and the other is wrong. We all can't be right all together.

See who is talking. Don't you atheists believe that your beliefs are the universal truth? See pot calling kettle black.

FatherOfJesus:
Show me evidence for god and I will change my mind

Creation, the resurrection of Jesus, miracles, answers to prayers, etc.

But when you unbelievers say evidence, you're expecting us to fabricate evidence that meets your criteria and you ignore the obvious evidences which are available

FatherOfJesus:
lol, there's nothing like true Christian dude.
We just have to tolerate each other.

Tolerating each other doesn't mean that we turn a blind eye to people who are going astray. Your girlfriend isn't a true Christian. I'm sure that you guys were already sexually involved with each other before you married. There is sufficient scripture that teaches that Christians should not be romantically involved or unequally yoked with unbelievers.

Kobojunkie:
Again.....Basically, what you are declaring here is that Jesus Christ lied when He said there will be only one judgement and it is after His return that the dead will be raised, judged and gathered into Heaven?

Every story Jesus Christ told us of the Kingdom of God , a lie, just because you deem it so?

---

Anyways, since you chose to believe that random verses and claims prove Jesus Christ a liar, I can't help you.

That's the thing about you. You pick out one scripture and use it as the basis of your doctrine without even considering the other scriptures regarding the subject matter that contradict your doctrine.

When Jesus said He was going to prepare a place for His disciples let me ask you one thing. Where is that place? When He told the thief crucified beside Him that He was going to be with Him in paradise that same day where was He referring to?

When Stephen the matyr said, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” (Acts 7:59), where was Jesus supposed to receive His spirit? If man does not have a spirit as you claim then why would Stephen ask Jesus to receive his spirit?

The entire Christian faith hinges on the fact that the Bible is infallible which means it is a perfect book devoid of errors. If one portion of the Bible says one thing and another portion that addresses the same subject matter says something to contradict it then why should we trust what the Bible has to say?

You seriously need to re-evaluate your beliefs and consider the fact that you just might be wrong.

LordReed:
Let's leave aside what I consider evidence, you have evidence, present it.

Well the first evidence is the Bible and the other evidence has the Bible as its basis.

The second evidence is the personal accounts of people who have been there in visions. There are many of such accounts on youtube. I'll give you some:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLimoqZUWgw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC0VOx4M5ZE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYxKRoONrfY

The third one even has a book that documents everything he shared during the sermon. I really do hope you watch and reconsider your beliefs.

LordReed:
LoLz!

So the thought of eternal punishment doesn't scare you at all?

LordReed:
Present whatever evidence you have and leave aside what I consider evidence for now.

That's where we have a problem because I present the only evidence that there is which I consider as sufficient, but you write it off as being insufficient.

LordReed:
So where is this hell, have any evidence it exists?

I would ask you again, what would you consider as evidence for hell's existence? Because I have evidence but somehow I doubt that it will be sufficient for you.

LordReed:
Your entire post is a comedy.

Well, laugh while you can and enjoy every bit of it. Because no one will be laughing in hell which is where you are headed to unless you repent and believe the Gospel.