Hismasterpiece's Posts
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I have a question for you Jehovah's witnesses and i would like you to answer me honestly, please. You believe that we humans are purely flesh and blood, and not spirits who are housed in bodies. So how do you interpret this portion of scripture - Mat 17:1 Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves; Mat 17:2 and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. Mat 17:3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. Mat 17:4 Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, "Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, let us make here three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah." The text appears to indicate that Moses and Elijah who had died and were buried centuries before the coming of Jesus in the flesh appeared to Jesus and conversed with Him and the disciples were able to recognize them. If all dead saints and sinners are just asleep in their graves till the day of the resurrection (which is also the same day Jesus returns) as Jehovah's witnesses believe (or if sinners cease to exist when they die, as KoboJunkie believes), then what is the correct interpretation of this text? This account is also recorded in Mark 9:2-6 and Luke 9:28-33. Also, the portion of scripture that gives the account of how a medium that King Saul went to see summoned the spirit of the prophet Samuel below by performing a seance - 1Sa 28:7 Then Saul said to his servants, "Find me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her." And his servants said to him, "In fact, there is a woman who is a medium at En Dor." 1Sa 28:8 So Saul disguised himself and put on other clothes, and he went, and two men with him; and they came to the woman by night. And he said, "Please conduct a seance for me, and bring up for me the one I shall name to you." 1Sa 28:9 Then the woman said to him, "Look, you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off the mediums and the spiritists from the land. Why then do you lay a snare for my life, to cause me to die?" 1Sa 28:10 And Saul swore to her by the LORD, saying, "As the LORD lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing." 1Sa 28:11 Then the woman said, "Whom shall I bring up for you?" And he said, "Bring up Samuel for me." 1Sa 28:12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, "Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul!" 1Sa 28:13 And the king said to her, "Do not be afraid. What did you see?" And the woman said to Saul, "I saw a spirit ascending out of the earth." 1Sa 28:14 So he said to her, "What is his form?" And she said, "An old man is coming up, and he is covered with a mantle." And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground and bowed down. 1Sa 28:15 Now Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" And Saul answered, "I am deeply distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God has departed from me and does not answer me anymore, neither by prophets nor by dreams. Therefore I have called you, that you may reveal to me what I should do." For me it is a confirmation of the doctrine that we humans are triune beings comprising of a spirit, soul and physical body as revealed to us in 1 Thessalonians 5:23 and also in other passages of scripture like James 2:26 and Eccle 12:7 among others. Now according to KoboJunkie, all sinners are purely flesh and blood, but believers are the ones who get to be born of the spirit, and therefore become spirit beings but prior to believing were simply born of the flesh, and therefore were nothing more than flesh and blood. And according to Jehovah's witnesses all humans are purely flesh and blood and when saints and sinners die they remain asleep in their graves till when Jesus returns. After which they will be resurrected. Saints will be given eternal life here on earth, while sinners will be annihilated or wipes out of existence. Therefore, the witnesses don't believe in a literal heaven for saints or hell for sinners. But this text from 1 samuel clearly states - And the woman said to Saul, "I saw a spirit ascending out of the earth.". So nobody can say that she summoned a being made of flesh and blood, but rather, a spirit, thus confirming the doctrine that we humans are triune beings (spirits who have souls and live in bodies) which automatically confirms the doctrine that when a person's spirit departs from their body they go to their eternal home as revealed in Luke 16:19-31, 2 Corinthians 5:1-8, Heb 9:27, among others. Because a person's spirit cannot just be roaming about the earth after it leaves the body (which isn't scriptural). Anyways, MaxInDHouse, Janosky, Bishopkingsley, Emusan, KNOWMORE56, freshboi88, DappaD, KoboJunkie, Barristter07, let me have your opinions on this please. And please no insults, as the Bible speaks against such. Gracias. |
Cabble4:I believe that God knows the end from the beginning, but i also believe that God can choose not to know something. I'll give you three examples from scripture. 1. Heb 8:12 "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more." . But you say God knows all things, but this scripture makes it clear that though he knows all things, He still has the ability to keep things out of His knowledge. 2. The story of when God tested Abraham. He told him to offer his son Isaac as a burnt offering to Him. I believe God chose not to know what choice Abraham would make. Because if God already knew, then why would he ask Abraham to sacrifice his son? Gen 22:1-18. 3. The return of Jesus. Jesus said that no one knows when He will return, except the father. Jesus is God and knows all things so what other explanation is there except the fact that even though God knows the end from the beginning, He can choose not to. Mat 24:36 |
LordReed:Even if other sacrifices had willing victims, there still is no record of a god raising someone sacrificed to him from the dead three days after they were sacrificed. From what i understand from your post, it seems that you are trying to say that Jesus' sacrifice on the cross shows that God is evil and not good? |
LordReed:You also believe what you read. Where do you get your knowledge on atheism from? Didn't you read it online? How are you sure what you read is reliable and not just some biased opinion of a God-hater? How do we know world history? Don't we get it from the things we read? Who led you to Christ? How did you come to know Christ? |
Cabble4:First of all, i never said God created hell after man rebelled. According to what the scriptures teach, God created hell for the devil and his angels. Secondly, what you understood by what i posted wasn't the aim of my post. Are you saying that God created Heaven and created hell on standby in anticipation of satan's and adam's rebellion? I don't think that accords with scripture. |
judemurphy:Re-read what i posted. 0. They are speaking an actual language, which can either be a natural language which is common like in Act 2:6, 8, 11. or a supernatural language which is not common 1Co 14:14. |
Cabble4:I don't understand your point. Clarify please. |
LordReed:I don't just believe it because i heard stories about it. I believe it because it is written. Let me ask you a question. When you were a Christian was it because of a personal conviction you had or because your parents were Christians and took you to church with them every sunday? |
LordReed:I see. So when you were a believer you witnessed people speaking in tongues without giving an interpretation. I can understand that. Truth be told, i never have seen anyone give an interpretation. But that doesn't mean it can't happen. I've read and heard accounts of people speaking in tongues and interpreting. Just because you haven't experience it doesn't mean the scripture isn't true. By the way you never told me what denomination you belonged to and what their beliefs are, so i can't trust your experience more than i do scripture. |
LordReed:It does matter why Jesus was sacrificed. And yes there is a difference between what the king did and what God did. The king's sons were sacrificed against their will and the motive behind their sacrifice, according to scripture was selfish. The king sacrificed his sons for his own personal interest but that is exactly contrary to the sacrifice of Jesus. According to scripture Jesus gave His Life freely, He wasn't forced to do it. He never fought back, He never resisted, even on the cross He prayed for His murderers. Show me one person who was the subject of a ritual sacrifice that was consenting to their death. The motive behind Jesus' sacrifice wasn't God's own personal interest or in God's favor, but that of mankind in general. Also, you can't actually compare the sacrifice of Jesus to ritual sacrifices. Do you know why? There has never been any record of a victim of ritual sacrifice being raised from the dead by the god he was sacrificed to after three days. But Jesus was raised from the dead, and today He reigns as Lord over all creation. Hallelujah!! P.S My example wasn't supposed to be taken literally i was just trying to illustrate the sacrifice of Jesus. It is literally impossible for something like that to happen in real life. But just out of curiosity i would like to know... if you were the criminal in the example, would you let the man's son die for you? Just asking... |
LordReed:I think you need to read my response again. |
LordReed:When you say a human sacrifice you make is seem like the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross is at par with the human ritual killings that happened in post-colonial Nigeria and still happen today and going by that logic you could never be any farther from the truth. Those ritual killings included taking people's lives forcefully but the sacrifice of Jesus is not like that. Jesus gave His Life by choice not by force. He left His throne and took off His Glorious Crown in exchange for a cross and a crown of thorns. Would you like to know why He did that? Because mankind was condemned because of our sins and God, because He Loves us didn't want us to bear the full weight of our sins had His own Son bear them. And now anyone who repents and believes in Him enters into fellowship with God forever. Let me give you an example. Say for instance you committed rape and murder and were sentenced to death by the firing squad. And the father of the girl you raped and killed, instead of letting you die the death you deserved asked his own son to face the firing squad in your place and he does, and sets you free from having to face the firing squad yourself, would you say that man is good or would you say he is evil? So, going by my explanation, my answer to your question is yes a human (substitutionary) sacrifice does prove that God is indeed good. |
LordReed:Because He sent His Son into the world to be the substitute for sinners. |
LordReed:I really don't think you understand what the Bible refers to as speaking in tongues. Going by what the Bible teaches, tongues is something exclusive only to 'Spirit filled' of 'Spirit baptized' Christians. I think i understand where your confusion comes from. The word 'Tongues'. Tongues is not a common phrase that people use today. When you speak Yoruba, for instance, if a foreigner is standing alongside you does he say, ' what tongue are you speaking'? No. He says, 'what language are you speaking'. Most Bible translations use the word 'tongues' when referring to this phenomenon, but the tlv (Tree of Life) version uses the word 'language', which is actually a very accurate translation. Mar 16:17 These signs will accompany those who believe: in My name they will drive out demons; they will speak new languages; It is a language. But going by human logic, you have to learn a language to be able to speak it right? But this language is not spoken out of understanding, but rather by inspiration. The Bible teaches that in order for a person to speak in a new language they must be believers, have the Holy Spirit come upon them after which He bestows upon that person the ability to speak a new language. You say you can 'speak in tongues'. But when you 'speak in tongues' do you believe you are speaking a different language that can be understood by the person you are speaking to? If your answer to that question is no, then my dear LordReed, you are not speaking in tongues, that is, according to what the Bible teaches. When a Spirit baptized Christian speaks a new language the following things are true - 0. They are speaking an actual language, which can either be a natural language which is common like in Act 2:6, 8, 11. or a supernatural language which is not common 1Co 14:14. 1. The speaker is not speaking from his own understanding, the Hold Spirit is the one giving him the words. Act 2:4. 2. They are not speaking to their fellow believers, but to God, who understands what they are saying. 1 Corinthians 14:2. 3. They don't understand what they are saying. 1Co 14:14. But can understand if they pray to God for an interpretation. 1Co 14:13. P.S By the way i think you misunderstood the topic of the thread. The op is simply asking whether a tongue speaker can end up in hell, and not whether tongues is supernatural or not, or whether exclusive to Christians as your response seems to indicate to be your understanding of the question of the thread. Sabi? ![]() |
judemurphy:Speaking in tongues is even small sef... Do you know that you can cast out demons and still end up in hell? You can prophesy and still end up in hell? You can work wonders and still end up in hell? Judas iscariot is a perfect example. He did all those things and today where is he? |
LilMissFavvy:Sister the guy is deceived. He doesn't understand scripture |
bobsage:What do you have to say about Matthew 25:41 where Jesus said, 'depart from me into THE EVERLASTING FIRE'. What do you have to say about the rich man and lazarus story? (see Luke 16:19-31). Mind you, this wasn't a parable o. It is a real-life story. Luke 16:22 "So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. Luke 16:23 "And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. Luke 16:24 "Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' You were wrong to say that the Bible got the concept of hell from dante's inferno. The concept of hell has been in the scriptures since the old testament. Hell is a place of eternal punishment and all sinners will go there. You were right to say that God doesn't deal with angels and men alike. But guess what? God does deal with all sinners alike and hell is a place for sinners whether or not they are angels or men as long as they are sinners they belong there. Check out this post for clarity https://www.nairaland.com/6711638/very-false-christian-belief-afterlife |
LordReed:I still don't understand your question |
LordReed:Clarify your question. |
LordReed:God is Good. In His Goodness He offers eternal life to all. In His Goodness He has revealed Himself to all so no one can say they never knew that He existed. You have to understand that hell was never in God's original plan. His original plan was to have all His creations in paradise for all eternity. But His creations rebelled against Him, and in His Judgement He condemned the sinners. God is Holy and Good. |
obonujoker:Jesus told a parable about a man who sowed wheat and while he slept his enemy sowed tares. The sower in this parable is the Lord Himself, the enemy is the devil, the wheat are the true believers, the tares are the false believers. First of all you need to understand that there are two types of Christians according to the Bible. A practicing Christian and a professing Christian. A practicing Christian is a Christian who has repented of their sins, turned to God fully and walks in full and total obedience to Him. He is guided by the Spirit (see Rom 8:5, Rom 8:14) A professing Christian is one who does believe but by their actions deny the Lord Himself. (see Titus 1:16). And if we deny the Lord, He will deny us also. (see 2 Timothy 2:12). (see also Mat 7:21-23). [/i]The people Jesus was talking about were believers who, although they believed and did many mighty works in His Name, never repented of their sins. And these are the Christians that will go to hell. They are carnally minded [i](see Rom 8:6- . They live according to the flesh and if you live according to the flesh you'll die, i.e go to hell (see Rom 8:13)Jesus said - Mat 10:32 "Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. Mat 10:33 "But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven. |
FarinJini:Rejecting the sacrifice is not a sin.. it is an act of freewill.. when the Gospel is presented to a person that person has the right to receive it or reject it |
LordReed:It is a bitter pill to swallow... but one must swallow it nonetheless. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God. You statement above has me thinking that you believe God isn't Good for creating such a place. Am i right to think so? Or am i wrong? |
haddeylium: MaxInDHouse:You don't understand. Everlasting life doesn't mean you'll live forever. Everybody will live forever. We are spirits and spirits don't die. As long as we are in our bodies we remain in this world, but when we leave our bodies we go to our eternal homes (heaven or hell). See Luke 16:19-31, 2 Corinthians 5:1-8. The rich man and lazarus both lived forever but in different places. And the apostle Paul talked about leaving his earthly home (physical body) and going to his heavenly home. Jesus saying those who believe in Him will have everlasting life simply means that they will enter into fellowship with God and know God forever unlike those who don't believe in Him who will forever be out of fellowship with God. Jesus said eternal life is to know God (see John 17:3). Going by your logic one might think that the opposite of eternal life is eternal death (ceasing to exist) but that's not according to scripture. According to scripture, the opposite of eternal life is condemnation, which is the default state of all unbelievers. And condemnation doesn't mean you cease to exist when you die, but rather you still exist but in a state in which you're out of fellowship with God. When a person dies their spirits leave their bodies (see James 2:26, Ecclesiastes 12:7) and go to their eternal homes (see Luke 16:19-31). |
haddeylium:Everlasting life doesn't mean only believers will live forever because every body will live forever (spirits don't die) as we are all spirits. |
haddeylium:I don't understand your question. Please clarify |
HellVictorinho:Why dost thou say so? |
Barristter07:What do you believe happened? |
LordReed:So you think the God all religions talk about is false and the real God can't be known? |
MaxInDHouse:Lol... max max |
LordReed:To be honest i don't entirely like the doctrine of hell.. I honestly wish there wasn't any such place.. But looking at your comment all i can do is revert back what is written in Isaiah - Isa 55:8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," says the LORD. Isa 55:9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts. I don't disagree with your logic.. but neither do i disagree with God's even if i don't completely understand it.. i just remember this scripture and take it as my answer.. I don't entirely understand why hell is so scary... but the truth is i can't entirely understand... there are some things that God doesn't answer that i just have to trust Him on.. We can't completely figure out God all the time.. sometimes we just have to trust Him even when we don't understand.. I'm just grateful that thanks to Jesus i never will experience that scary place, but instead i will have the privilege of being ushered into the very presence of God when i leave this world. And you can enjoy that privilege too if you put your faith in Jesus |
SUCKCESSFUL:Amen to that!! |
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