₦airaland Forum

FreeIgboho:
Once again, mu--, you are in no position to prove or disprove anything. I'm still waiting for you to prove to me that you exist or that you don't exist

What do you mean by this? The fact that he is discussing with you on nairaland isn't they proof enough? Can someone that doesn't exist post on nairaland?

Your question isn't very smart (no offense).

FreeIgboho:
Exactly. That's how it's supposed to be. That's how intelligent people operate. That's how knowledge is enhanced. Nothing mandates that we stick to your narrow question. This thread may go into a thousand pages

If you say so

Workch:
There is nothing to be curious about there, it’s just some set of people making up stuffs.

Time and time again, things that has been ascribe to supernaturalism has been disproven. Countless times and people still come up with those stories. It’s enough to disbelieve you guys

Things like what?

Workch:
You can’t dive into the world of something that doesn’t exist.

Don’t you get it

Again. Don't just conclude. Research and find out the truth for yourself.

Religion is not preconceived.

Be curious about the universe and you'll be surprised what you find out.

FreeIgboho:
Now I'll call u mumu! Did u read my post. We assumed they were right untill proven wrong.
Don't you think it conceivable that in the distant future it would be shown the geocentrists were indeed right!

You guys a deviating from the objective of this post.

I simply asked you guys to give me logical reasons as to why I should be an atheist.

Now you guys are arguing about things I don't even understand.

Workch:
If I don’t understand I won’t put god there. I will wait until we find out.

That’s mental laziness bro

That's exactly what I'm telling you to do. Try to find out things for yourself.

I challenge you to dive into the world of the supernatural.. Your beliefs will be challenged greatly.

Workch:
Like I said, you have really done a great work trying to change my mind, now I don’t believe in evolution and I believe in god. You did this in a masterclass of not even providing a single evidence.

The god I choose to believe is the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Do you have a problem with that?

LOL.. Again with the jokes.

Lemme advise you. Approach the existence of God with an open mind. There are things that you simply don't understand.

Please I beg you try to find out things for yourself and don't jump to conclusions..

Investigate all religions.. Cry out to the invisible God of the universe (I know this sounds stupid to you but just give it a try)

Ask this so-called God to reveal Himself to you and He will. Seek Him and you will find Him.

Carry out deep research into the spiritual and I promise you even if you don't end up accepting any religion your beliefs will be challenged.

Workch:
please embarrass me more, I am learning a lot from you.

I’m not agnostic, I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster since you convinced me and I think he created Yahweh.

You are so full of wisdom

LOL.. You're funny.

First you said you believed in evolution then I challenged you a little and you said you don't believe anymore..

Anyways..

There is no atheist. You know why? Atheist comes from the Greek 'a theos'. Which means 'No God'. It is the belief that God doesn't exist.

Atheists believe that science backs them up but no.. Because scientifically, you can't be an atheist... It is scientifically impossible to be an atheist.. And i can prove it to you!

The word 'science' means knowledge. The definition of science is, 'knowledge about or study of the natural world based on facts learned through experiments and observation'.

In order for you to say that something exists, you have to have done a study and have facts to back it up.

So for you to say there is no God, you must have done a study and you have based your claim on facts and experience.

Because for you to say that someone doesn't exist you have to have all knowledge.. You have to know everything to say that something does not exist.. And no human does!

You can't, for instance, say that a place named limpopo doesn't exist. If you said so, I would ask you to show me your study. Show me how you came to that knowledge. Show me facts, experiments you've had, otherwise it is not scientific.. Its just your opinion.

If you say there is no abia state in Nigeria, I would ask you, 'have you been to every state in Nigeria'? Or have you studied all the states in Nigeria? Then you can't definitively say there is no abia state.

I can, however, say that there is an abia state. Do you know why? Because I have been there!

Do you know that the smartest man in the world said,' you can prove the existence of God, the soul and an afterlife using mathematics' (google it if you don't believe me).

But other smart people (like you) say otherwise.

Let's say your knowledge percentage is 1% (which is an unlikely estimate.. Could be less). Could it be possible that in the remaining 99% of all knowledge that you don't have, something exists that you don't know about? Of course (Please consider this).

So you can't say there is no God if you don't have all knowledge. Atheism.

But what you can say is you simply don't know that there is a God. Agnosticism.

Using that same logic I can say God exists because I know Him personally.. I have spoken to Him and He has spoken to me too.. Though I have never seen Him.. That's reserved for a latter time..

I once prayed for a girl having menstrual flow issues and while I was praying for her (this is what she later told me) she started feeling her flow come and when she got to her hostel, the flow came!

I have seen the supernatural. That is what I base me belief on.. Fact and experience.

So my question to you is this..

Have you tried to find out for yourself whether God exists or not? Have you conducted research? Is your belief in the non-existence of God factual? Or is it just sentimental?

Workch:
How can you prove that your experience that night wasn’t facilitated by he Flying Spaghetti Monster?

LOL.. You've been embarrassed and now you're turning to jokes..

Anyways..

Lemme ask you this.

If the Bible never spoke against the bad things you love doing (I'm just speculating.. Im not trying to say that you are involved in any of these things) but however..

If the Bible encouraged yahoo yahoo, sleeping with your girlfriend, telling the truth only when convenient, cheating on your wife, hitting back people who hit you, selfishness, etc..

Bottomline if the Bible totally agreed with your lifestyle would you still be agiinst it? If the Bible never challenged your choices would you still be against it?

My personal belief is that you so-called atheists (which I don't think you are.. I think you're an agnostic) don't really disbelieve in the existence of God, but just dislike Him.. Because you don't want to be told what to do by Him.. You want to do your own thing.. That's what I believe..

And this train of thought accords with scripture. If you doubt me I'd show the scriptures to you.

Workch:
ok, evolution hasn’t been proven and I don’t believe in it.

So how is that a plus for the existence of you imaginary friend?

Why is that not a plus for the existence of unicorns?

I told you of my experience in the night some years back.. Which I still can't forget till this day... That experience alerted me to the fact that there are people among us whom we can't see.

As for proving the existence of God... It doesn't need to be proven... I don't need to ascend to heaven and take a selfie with God to prove He exists..

God doesn't need proof... It already is obvious.. Look at creation.. Look at the stars.. Look at the sky.. Ponder on the vastness of the universe.. Look at yourself.. Everything screams intelligent design.. There has to be a God...

The logical question isn't whether there is a God or not but rather... Since there is a God, then what is the right way to Him? Is it Islam? Buddhism? Hinduism? Christianity?

If you can come down to that plane then we can have a sweet discussion

Workch:
ok, evolution hasn’t been proven and I don’t believe in it.

So how is that a plus for the existence of you imaginary friend?

Why is that not a plus for the existence of unicorns?

Ah! Why are you contradicting yourself?

I thought you said that evolution had evidence?

I think you may be confused.

Just admit you're an agnostic and say you don't know for sure rather than say you don't believe and yet can't back up your belief.

Workch:
So what if evolution hasn’t been proven, how does that mean you god exist?

Can’t you see why that reasoning doesn’t make any sense?

LOL.. So you agree that evolution is improbable? Hallelujah!

So the next question if not evolution then what is the logical explanation for human existence?

Please educate me

Workch:
You are scientifically illiterate, that’s why I won’t discusss Science with you.

If you have any thing you want to know about evidence I can teach you. Don’t come and ask bogus questions like someone that didn’t pass elementary science.

LOL..... You're running away from the question.. Classic atheist move.. Well done.

Workch:
How do you think I don’t know the true nature of reality when even every illiterate in villages have the default setting of accepting god?

People in the hinterland who don’t even know basic biology think like you that gods exist. I think you should check you definition if reality

Kids who can’t even think for themselves think gods exist. How is that reality?

You've still not answered my question about evolution o..

Workch:
I have a masters in biochemistry, you want to teach me theory of evolution?

Ogbeni answer my question jare

Workch:
You have shallow knowledge of what you are talking about.

What law of physics was disobeyed?

Learn to read stuffs through and don’t believe whatever you read online. It makes you gullible.

... Says the atheist that got his worldvirw from the internet..

Workch:
existence is the evidence that my parents mates and fertilization occurred without the interference of a god.

Human existence is attached to the evidence that we evolved from preexisting organisms, no evidence that a god was involved.

The stars are evidence that molecules can coalesce in space at tremendous gravity to start nuclear fusion reactions, it has been studied and no one saw a god involved.

Everyone always think their opinion is common sense that’s why Christianity has thousands of doctrines and contradicts each other. Only testable evidence reveals the true sense.

You know that the evolution theory is just that... A THEORY.

It has never been proven and never can be proven.

Lemme ask you a question. Since humans evolved from monkeys why do monkeys still exist? If humans evolved why haven't we evolved further?

I sure would like to evolve from being 6ft to being 20ft.. I sure would like to evolve from being mortal to being immortal..

Why hasn't evolution happened since the purported original evolution?

You know in the book written by Charles Darwin after talking about the evolution theory he spends the last chapters of the book doubting his own insinuations right?

So please answer my question.

Workch:
Evidence has a universal definition. Religious people twerk it because they don’t seem to have any of it for their claim.

Evidence has to be testable and repeatable, anywhere and anytime under a controlled condition. Miracles are not evidence, they cannot produce repeatable results at any given time and anywhere. A lot of probabilities, lies, exaggerations and bias are attached to it. Such premises cannot be trusted.

Your god cannot be tested and that’s why we have several gods, everyone come up with whatever they like. Even within the Christendom, we have conflicting ideologies in doctrines. None of you guys seem to have a specific method to test whatever you claim and everyone just want to be right.

Outside of Christianity, no religion want to provide a generally accepted method to test their god. Testing it to provide reproduce-able results. Everyone just say whatever makes them happy and most times it conflicts.

This is why I am an atheist, I trust repeatable results than infallible claims that can’t be tested. You will likely make mistake if you always do not test whatever you believe multiple times under a controlled condition to see if it really works or it’s just probabilities.

Isn't existence evidence enough?

When you see the stars, the moon, the sky, creation in general doesn't common sense tell you that it is somebody that put all those things there?

Have you ever seen anything that wasn't created? Buildings don't build themselves. Cars don't make themselves. Using that same logic this world didn't make itself. And thus the evidence for a creator.

Workch:
Becoming an atheist frees your from mental slavery.
I am mentally free from stuffs like
1. Village people.
2. Hell or heaven.
3. Threat of curse
4. Scams from pastors.

I also see clearer from a practical point of view without bias. I am free from cognitive dissonance. I laugh when people talk about spiritual things as there are no evidence to measure their existence.

Atheism makes you a mentally free person, not a lot of people have the courage to become atheist.

There are other huge benefits

All the things you said are synonymous with Christianity.. Are you personally opposed to Christianity alone or spirituality in general?

Workch:
Becoming an atheist frees your from mental slavery.
I am mentally free from stuffs like
1. Village people.
2. Hell or heaven.
3. Threat of curse
4. Scams from pastors.

I also see clearer from a practical point of view without bias. I am free from cognitive dissonance. I laugh when people talk about spiritual things as there are no evidence to measure their existence.

Atheism makes you a mentally free person, not a lot of people have the courage to become atheist.

There are other huge benefits

when you atheists say evidence what do you mean?

kingxsamz:
There are many explanations to what you might have felt that day. You think it's what you think it's because your mind is already engrossed in such beliefs. If the so called spirit or ghost was serious, it'll not only rub your shoulder, it'll drag you out of your bed. You might have been dreaming sef, who knows.
There are no spirits, ghosts or whatever. Infact I don't get why humans are more scared of these imaginary beings. Your fellow human can do worse to you than what you think some ghost or spirit would do. Like you said, the lights were off and it was late at night. Nothing spiritual about it.

when this experience happened to me i wasn't a christian

MaxInDHouse:
Just keep all the scriptures i explained to you perhaps you will later find better Interpretation.

You're not going to heaven because that's not what God told Adam. It's whether he live on earth or return to dust! Genesis 2:17; 3:17-19

May you have PEACE!

you Jehovah's witnesses are taught to accept every thing the watch tower society tells you as fact and are not taught to read the scriptures and understand it for yourselves.

you don't believe in heaven or hell when it is so obviously stated in the scriptures, you don't believe the Holy Spirit is a person, you don't believe in the trinity, you don't believe Jesus is God when in fact all these things are obviously stated in the scriptures.

i admonish you stop identifying with a society and start identifying with a Lord and Savior (Jesus) and you'll start to see things differently.

Stop calling yourself Jehovah's witness and start calling yourself Christian and seek to understand the Bible for yourself and dont just accept whatever the watch tower society tells you without first confirming it in the scriptures.

Grace and Peace to you

FreeIgboho:
Once again, we are NOT discussing belief. What I believe is irrelevant. View and read my screenshots above again. Like I asked hopefulLandlord (with an open mind), how do you explain these things?

do you have anymore stuff like that to post.. if so kindly post.. hopefulLandlord answer him na

kingxsamz:
Try to find out what?
Spirits, ghosts, witches, gods? Wide spread rumors?
Do you believe in fairies, unicorns, leprechauns, elfs and flying deers? If no, have you tried to find out these things for yourself? (based on your logic).
One can't be looking for what's not there. Let the ones who claim these things exists prove it.
Check my old posts back in 2017, I used to insult atheists, now I'm one. I hated how their truth hurts. The fact that you're asking questions already shows you're having doubts about your beliefs.

Let me tell you of an experience i had a while ago.

One night after i had my bath i lay down on my bed to sleep.

The lights were off and i was the only one in the room.

After lying down for about 10 minutes or so something happened... something i can never forget.

All of the sudden from out of nowhere i felt somebody rub my shoulder (in the same way a lover would rub your shoulder... romantically)

I screamed and jumped out of my bed.. and when i turned on the torch to look i saw that there was nobody there.

But till this day i am convinced that somebody touched me that day... i can never forget and have never forgotten.

Ever since that day i have been aware of the fact that we are not alone on this earth... there are people with us that we just can't see with our natural eyes... real people... invisible people

What do you have to say about this my experience?

kingxsamz:
Humans are literally bags of meat in the universe. No one has the power to do anything. You can't outsmart or break the laws of the universe. You can't make money appear out of thin air, you can't fly from one place to another without the help of modern technology which enables you to fly. You can't disappear, you can't die and come back to life, no matter the amount of women's underwear and menstrual pads you steal, money cannot fall from the sky because of you. You can't do anything extraordinary. Anything you do can be explained logically. Humans are smaller than a spec of dust in the universe, what makes you think they have the power to break the laws of the universe? There's no God/gods, there are no witches, spirits, ghosts, unicorns or whatever bullcrap one might think of. These are just human ideas.

who do you think makes these laws that govern the universe?

MaxInDHouse:
Considering Luke 23:43

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise. KJV

And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.” NWT

If you carefully observe the two translators the punctuation mark "," is the bone of contention!

If you read the KJV, the mark makes it sound as if Jesus will be with that thief in another place that same day.
But if you read the NWT, the mark makes it sound as if Jesus is promising that their about some future occurrence that day.

So we have two translators now having contradicting opinion on what Jesus said there. But let's consider other related comments about Jesus' condition after his death that day.

According to Jesus himself where will he be for the next two days after his execution?

Well Jesus said:

For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Matthew 12:40

Was Jesus conscious after his death?

Peter said:

The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. Act 5:30

According to God's word Jesus was dead as in UNCONSCIOUS until God raised him the third day! Ecclesiastes 12:7 compare to Luke 23:46

So Jesus couldn't have gone anywhere with the thief after their execution.
Moreover Jesus himself said that for anyone to go up to heaven such a person must be a born again Christian {John 3:5} therefore the condemned criminal never met that criteria but he's due for a resurrection because he showed faith in God's son. So Jesus will make sure that when the UNRIGHTEOUS ones are been resurrected this thief will be among them then Jesus will see to it from heaven that he is well taken care of both physically, emotionally, materially and spiritually!

when you die and find yourself in heaven i am sure you will be very surprised.

FreeIgboho:
We are discussing possible existence of a supernatural based on documented and verifiable human experience. Respectfully, focus on that

so you are a believer in the supernatural

have you ever experienced anything supernatural before?

kingxsamz:
Humans are literally bags of meat in the universe. No one has the power to do anything. You can't outsmart or break the laws of the universe. You can't make money appear out of thin air, you can't fly from one place to another without the help of modern technology which enables you to fly. You can't disappear, you can't die and come back to life, no matter the amount of women's underwear and menstrual pads you steal, money cannot fall from the sky because of you. You can't do anything extraordinary. Anything you do can be explained logically. Humans are smaller than a spec of dust in the universe, what makes you think they have the power to break the laws of the universe? There's no God/gods, there are no witches, spirits, ghosts, unicorns or whatever bullcrap one might think of. These are just human ideas.

Have you at least tried to find out these things for yourself

Or are you just speaking based on some idea of yours?

FreeIgboho:
Not necessarily. Many things continued for thousands of years that were false - worship of gods like Zeus, etc and miracles by them, world was flat and center of the universe for thousands of years, etc.

On the other hand, hopefulLandlord, how do you explain the following:

are you a Christian?

MaxInDHouse:
The thief was executed for his evil deeds not for the sake of righteousness so he's not fit to be called a Christian therefore Jesus has no business with him, but he uttered a statement that shows the condition of his heart at the time he's dying:

“Jesus, remember me when you get into your Kingdom.” Luke 23:42
That's what called Jesus' attention!
Jesus is the promised Messiah, the religious leaders of the day who has been teaching the Jews stood there telling Jesus:

In the same way also, the chief priests with the scribes were mocking him among themselves, saying: “Others he saved; himself he cannot save" Mark 15:31

Now think about that!
Those who taught the Jews everything written in the scriptures (including this thief) were mocking Jesus but the thief remembered all what the Chief Priests taught him so he found out that if what all the things the religious leaders taught them are true then Jesus must be the Messiah! Remember Jesus told crowd listening to him:
Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses. Therefore, all the things they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds, for they say but they do not practice what they say. Matthew 23:1-3

Definitely this thief must have been in the crowd that day that's why he could faithfully begged Jesus to remember him!
Instantly Jesus realized that this thief must have put faith in those things he told the crowd that faithful day!

Of course that's what Jesus expected from all sinners 'repentance', so he approved the man for PARADISE not Heaven!

You still need to know the difference between Paradise and heaven, both are different places not the same!

what is the difference between paradise and heaven?

where is paradise and where is heaven?

MaxInDHouse:
You will be considered a Christian throughout the world once you claim you're a Christian but before members of our own group globally you only become a Christian the day you get baptized in the presence of JWs.
By that time anywhere you get to on this planet you're welcome into the home of all JWs because you've become one of us {Mark 10:29-30} but you must live by Christian standard because if you decide to turn away from what made you our family you're no more going to be regarded as one of us! Romans 16:17

It's not so in other religions claiming Christians you can leave one for another, they all believe you're a Christian once you claim so, that's why Jesus said their own ROAD is BROAD since you're free to switch lanes but in our own NARROW PATH you must maintain one single lane! Matthew 7:13-14

May you have PEACE!

What of the thief crucified alongside Jesus?

Was he a Jehovahs witness?

Are you saying because he wasn't baptized he wasn't a Christian?

But didn't Jesus say that his spirit would be in Him in Heaven that very day? Implying that he has a spirit and an eternal home after death as we all do?

hopefulLandlord:
I've found no reason to believe there's some invisible realm to this world were in.
I don't believe it worksthey sacrifice their victims, that's the only true thing we know. that there's spirits somewhere taking the sacrifice (s) has no evidence to back it up

Don't you think they would have stopped ages ago if what they're doing doesn't work?

The fact that this practice has continued for centuries doesn't that tell you something?