₦airaland Forum

Kobojunkie:
What is it of this passage that you are wanting me to see please?

im simply asing you to give me the true explanation.

Kobojunkie:
If you cannot fully grasp- more like you refuse to believe - what God's Law has said about this issue, God's own Truth, what do you expect me to do with this?

God Himself spoke to us about this in John 3 vs 1 - 8, why do you not believe Him?

Oh dont be angry im simply asing for your interpretaton of the verse.

Kobojunkie:
Cobbling up random verses from here and there doesn't mean anything at all if your understanding of what is written is based on your special interpretation magic as no one else will see what you see.

okay. what do you have to say about 2 Cor 5 vs 8 and 17. What is the true interpretation?

Kobojunkie:
I don't understand your question at all. Did you read the entire passage of John 3 vs 1 - 8 and still not realize what Jesus Christ explained there to Nicodemus?

When you were born to your mother, you were born of flesh - a physical birth of the elements of this world. But when you believe in Jesus Christ ,and are to enter into His Kingdom, you are then born of spirit. Only those who believe in Jesus Christ and are born of water and born of spirit.

Lol. Whether we believe in Jesus or not we are all spirits.Those who believe in Jesus are made alive by the Holy Spirit and go to heaven when they die. While those who don't believe in Jesus remain dead spiritually and go to hell when they die.

Kobojunkie:
The problem I have with many of you is you try your hardest to make scripture say what you want it to say rather than allow scripture speak for itself. Scripture Translation after translation has left the term "Breath of life" as simply that, the "Breath of life" for very good reason, but through your magic of interpretation you instead want it to mean "spirit" simply because you prefer it that way. Is that being true to scripture or being dishonest? What do you want me to do with that nonsense interpretation of yours?

Jesus Christ told you in John 3 vs 1 - 8, that the only life you get from being born from the womb of your mother is is physical life... by saying that God gave you a spiritual life when he Breathed life into you to turn clay into a human being is a Spiritual one, you declare Jesus Christ a liar. So, your issue is not with me but with Jesus Christ on that one.

Also, when you declare false that which God decreed in Genesis 3 vs 17 - 19 that man will be returned back to the clay of the earth once the "Breath of life" leaves him, man, you call God a liar, not me.

In the same Genesis 3 vs 20 - 25, God clearly revealed man did not have an afterlife/eternal life from his birth and also didn't eat of the tree of Life. The one you are contending with is not me but God Himself.

i have given you lots of scripture to back up my position. Oya give me at least 10 scriptures besides the ones from Genesis to support you argument.

Kobojunkie:
The problem I have with many of you is you try your hardest to make scripture say what you want it to say rather than allow scripture speak for itself. Scripture Translation after translation has left the term "Breath of life" as simply that, the "Breath of life" for very good reason, but through your magic of interpretation you instead want it to mean "spirit" simply because you prefer it that way. Is that being true to scripture or being dishonest? What do you want me to do with that nonsense interpretation of yours?

Jesus Christ told you in John 3 vs 1 - 8, that the only life you get from being born from the womb of your mother is is physical life... by saying that God gave you a spiritual life when he Breathed life into you to turn clay into a human being is a Spiritual one, you declare Jesus Christ a liar. So, your issue is not with me but with Jesus Christ on that one.

Also, when you declare false that which God decreed in Genesis 3 vs 17 - 19 that man will be returned back to the clay of the earth once the "Breath of life" leaves him, man, you call God a liar, not me.

In the same Genesis 3 vs 20 - 25, God clearly revealed man did not have an afterlife/eternal life from his birth and also didn't eat of the tree of Life. The one you are contending with is not me but God Himself.

What do you have to say about John 3 v 6. Where Jesus said that which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of spirit is spirit?

Kobojunkie:
1. All unbelievers perish in the grave .I.e. cease to exist when they die. That is the judgement that God declared in Genesis 3 vs 16 - 19

2. For those of the Old Covenant Law, the promise is that those who die in their sins, perish in the grave .I.e. cease to exist when they die. But those of them who live righteous lives according to the Law, gain eternal life- Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20

3. For those of us in Jesus Christ, Death .I.e. perish in the grave or cease to exist, is not an option. jesus Christ took that option off the table when He declared that anyone who believes in Him will no longer perish but have eternal life- John 3 vs 16 - 21. Instead those in Jesus Christ who die as sinners are destined for Hell whereas those who live righteously, in obedience to Jesus Christ, are destined for Heaven - Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46

Check out this post. https://www.nairaland.com/6711638/very-false-christian-belief

kobojunkie

P.S. Some other old testament Scriptures about Hell and The Afterlife.

In the Old Testament Hell is referred to as, Sheol or The Pit.

Job 33:24 - Then let him be gracious to him, and say, ‘Deliver him from going down to the pit,I have found a ransom’;

Psalm 88:4 I am reckoned among those who go down to the pit; I have become like a man without strength,

Job 33:28 ‘He has redeemed my soul from going to the pit, And my life shall see the light.’

Psalm 30:3 O Lord, You have brought up my soul from Sheol; You have kept me alive, that I would not go down to the pit.

Psalm 28:1 A Psalm of David. To You, O Lord, I call; My rock, do not be deaf to me, For if You are silent to me, I will become like those who go down to the pit.

Job 17:14 If I call to the pit, ‘You are my father’;To the worm, ‘my mother and my sister’;

Job 33:22 “Then his soul draws near to the pit, And his life to those who bring death.

Isaiah 14:15 “Nevertheless you will be thrust down to Sheol, To the recesses of the pit.

Psalm 143:7 Answer me quickly, O Lord, my spirit fails; Do not hide Your face from me, Or I will become like those who go down to the pit.

Psalm 30:9 “What profit is there in my blood, if I go down to the pit? Will the dust praise You? Will it declare Your faithfulness?

Ezekiel 26:20 then I will bring you down with those who go down to the pit, to the people of old, and I will make you dwell in the lower parts of the earth, like the ancient waste places, with those who go down to the pit, so that you will not be inhabited; but I will set glory in the land of the living.

Ezekiel 28:8 ‘They will bring you down to the pit, And you will die the death of those who are slain In the heart of the seas.

Ezekiel 31:14 So that all the trees by the waters may not be exalted in their stature, nor set their top among the clouds, nor their well-watered mighty ones stand erect in their height. For they have all been given over to death, to the earth beneath, among the sons of men, with those who go down to the pit.”

Ezekiel 32:18 “Son of man, wail for the hordes of Egypt and bring it down, her and the daughters of the powerful nations, to the netherworld, with those who go down to the pit;

Ezekiel 32:23 Whose graves are set in the remotest parts of the pit and her company is round about her grave. All of them are slain, fallen by the sword, who spread terror in the land of the living.

Ezekiel 32:30 “There also are the chiefs of the north, all of them, and all the Sidonians, who in spite of the terror resulting from their might, in shame went down with the slain. So they lay down uncircumcised with those slain by the sword and bore their disgrace with those who go down to the pit.

Ezekiel 32:29 “There also is Edom, its kings and all its princes, who for all their might are laid with those slain by the sword; they will lie with the uncircumcised and with those who go down to the pit.

PROVERBS 5:5 (NRSV) Her feet go down to death; her steps follow the path of Sheol.

PROVERBS 7:27 (NRSV) Her house is the way to Sheol, going down to the chambers of death.

PROVERBS 9:18 (NRSV) But they do not know that the dead are there [in Folly’s house], that her guests are in the depths of Sheol.

PROVERBS 15:11 (NRSV) Sheol and abaddon [destruction] lie open before the LORD, how much more human hearts!

PROVERBS 27:20 (NRSV) Sheol and abaddon [destruction] are never satisfied, and human eyes are never satisfied.

PROVERBS 15:24 (NRSV) For the wise the path of life leads upward in order to avoid Sheol below.

PROVERBS 23:13-14 (NASB) Do not hold back discipline from the child, although you beat him with the rod, he will not die. (14) You shall beat him with the rod and deliver his soul from Sheol.

PROVERBS 30:15-16 (NASB) There are three things that will not be satisfied. Four that will not say, “Enough”: Sheol, and the barren womb, earth that is never satisfied with water, and fire that never says, “Enough.”

In summary, the belief that a person ceases to exist when they die is NOT what the Bible teaches.

People who hold that belief DON'T have sufficient scripture to back up that claim.

They use Deuteronomy 20:18. Where God said that those who turn away from Him, 'Shall surely perish'. Perish in that context didn't mean cease to exist as I have already pointed out that even the Jews of old didn't believe anybody ceased to exist.

They also use John 3:16. When Jesus said, 'Whoever believes in Him should not perish'. Perish in that context simply meant to be condemned in hell forever.

They also use Matthew 25:31-46. But conveniently ignore verse 41 that says, 'Depart from me... Into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels'. Implying that even Jesus believed we all have an eternal home in the spiritual world.

Heaven is real, Hell is real. Everybody has an eternal home. We are spirits, who have souls and live in bodies. That is what the Bible teaches.

I cordially invite those with a differing opinion to give me at least the same number of Scriptures i have use to back up their claim.

God bless you all.

Apparently even the early Apostles and early Jews didn't hold this notion that people (believers and unbelievers) cease to exist when they die.

0. King David wrote, 'If I ascend up into heaven, you are there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, you are there.' Psalm 139:8.

1. After King David's son died he said, 'I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me' 2 Sam 12:23.

2. James in his epistle said, 'the body without the spirit is dead'. James 2:26.

3. In the Gospel of Luke when Jesus raised up the little girl from the dead Luke writes, 'And her spirit returned and she arose immediately' Luke 8:55.

4. Apostle Paul wrote in his epistle, 'If our earthly house is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens'. 2 Cor 5:1. The earthly house referred to here is our body which houses our spirit.

5. Apostle Paul also wrote, 'We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord' 2 Cor 5:8. Being absent from the body here refers to the spirit leaving the body when one dies and being present with the Lord means going to Heaven.

6. Apostle Paul also wrote, 'To live is Christ, and to die is gain... Having a desire to depart and be with Christ which is far better. Phil 1:21-24. Implying that even the apostle Paul believed that physical death is not the end.

7. Even Jesus himself didn't hold the belief that a person ceases to exist after death. He said, '... I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go to prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am there you may be also' John 14:2-3.

8. Jesus told the thief hanging alongside him, 'Today you will be with me in paradise'. Luke 23:42-43. Why didn't Jesus say to him, 'Today you will cease to exist'? Implying that when a person dies, his spirit leaves his body and goes to his eternal home which is either heaven or hell.

9. Read the story of the rich man and Lazarus. Luke 16:18-31. And tell me whether Jesus said when either the rich man or Lazarus died they ceased to exist.

10. We all agree that Jesus was born a man right? He was a man just like us when he was on the earth. So if a man ceases to exist when he dies then why did Jesus say, 'Father, into your hands I commit My spirit'. Luke 23:46.

11. Paul writes in 2 Cor 5:17, 'Therefore, If anyone is in Christ he is a new creation'. This means that when a person repents and believes A VERY REAL CHANGE happens in him. Tell me, when you believed did your skin color change? Did you lose weight? Did you grow taller? Did your muscles increase? No! Does that now mean this scripture is false? Absolutely not! The part of us that became a new creation is our spirit, which is the real us, which goes to it's eternal home in heaven when we die physically!

12. In Ephesians 2:1-10. Paul said, 'we were dead in trespasses and sins, but God, made us alive together with Christ, and raised us up together and sitted us together in the heavenly places'. Is Paul lying here? Were we physically made alive? Were we physically taken to heavenly places? No! But our spirits were!

Please avoid false teachings.

People don't cease to exist when they die. We are spirits who have souls and live in bodies. 1 Thessalonians 5:23.

When a believer dies he goes to be with the Lord in Heaven. 2 Cor 5:1, 8. Phil 1:23.

Where they get this false notion that a person ceases to exist is from Genesis 3:19 where God told Adam that he was dust and would return back to dust because he ate the fruit.

God didn't mean that he would cease to exist, he was just telling him he would die physically as a direct consequence of him dying spiritually because he ate the fruit.

And they conveniently ignore Genesis 2:7 where God breathed into man and he became a living being.

The word for BREATH in the Hebrew and Greek is the same word for SPIRIT.

So man became a living being when God put a spirit inside him.

And they also ignore the warning in Genesis 2:16-17.

God said the DAY that he ate the fruit he would Die. But when Adam ate the fruit he didn't die physically until many years later.

What does that mean? Does that mean that God lied? Of course not. The DAY that our parents ate the forbidden fruit THEY DIED. That's the real them... Their spirit.

God is the Father of spirits Heb 12:9. And Adam is called the Son of God Luke 3:38. God is a Spirit John 4:24. Therefore Adam is a Spirit who was put inside a body.

Most Christians don't believe that people have eternal homes. That is, Heaven or Hell.

This belief system is called Annihilationism. (or extinctionism or destructionism).

That's because they don't believe we are spirits, but believe that we are merely flesh.

Therefore they believe that unbelievers cease to exist when they die and believers will be raised from the dead on the day of judgment, which is how they interpret John 3:16.

Allow me to disprove this false notion with the following presentation.

FarinJini:
and this is a very wrong answer my friend.

You said that anyone that rejects the sacrifice of Jesus is going to hell and that's exactly what the Bible teaches.

FarinJini:
So what's the essence of hell since he sent His "son" to die for the sins of man.
If he did died for the sins why would people still go to hell? And don't say it is because they fail to accept him because failure to accept him should also be a sin which he has already died for.
OP abeg this story get as e be

You already answered your question.

GodSaklek:
Rubbish talk.... Just see your trash explanation.. To yourself, you've make sense I believe in big bang than the rubbish explained by Bible which comprises of pure human ideas... Big bang explained that,God(universe) is the one that explodes that becomes universe...

@IamMichael, don't mind that Mothafoka

Lemme question you first.

Since the big bang has there ever been another big bang?

Have you ever heard of an explosion that resulted in the building of a house? Or car? Or city?

But since the original creation we still see creation happening day by day, week by week, month by month.

Houses are created. Cars are created. Roads are created. Citys are created. Etc.

Creation makes far more sense that the big bang.

If you went to a desert and saw a house there and the owner of the house told you that one day an explosion resulted in the building of that house would you believe him?

livingchrist:
The big bang is just a scientific attempt to explain the origin of the universe.
From the biblical perspective the was no big bang the universe came to be at the word of God.

Amen to that!

Q: Why would a loving God send people to hell?
A: Hell has nothing to do with love or hatred. Hell is about justice. People don't go to hell because God hates them, they go to hell because they deserve it. John 3:18.

Q: Why is hell forever?
A: Because God is just. If the righteous get eternal pleasure it is only just for the unrighteous to get eternal punishment.

Q: Who is to blame for hell?
A: Not God. You need to understand that hell is as a result of sin and God isn't the one who introduced sin into the world, Adam did. Romans 5:12. God warned Adam not to sin but the devil tempted Eve who gave Adam the fruit to eat. So you see that God is not the one that wants people to go to hell, the devil does!

Q: Did God create hell?
A: Yes, but not for man, but for the devil and his angels. Matthew 25:41. But when man sinned against God, He had to send him there also. Hell is basically a place for sinners.

Q: Does God want man to go to hell?
A: Absolutely not! 2 Peter 3:9. Which is exactly why He, in His Justice and Mercy and Grace and Love sent His Son Jesus to take our well-deserved punishment so we won't have to. John 3:16-21.

Q: Is hell a place of fire?
A: Sadly, yes. Matthew 3:10, 12. 25:41. Revelations 20:14. Etc.

Q: Will every body in hell be punished equally?
A: No. Just as everybody in Heaven won't be rewarded equally.

Q: Will moral people go to hell?
A: Yes. People don't go to heaven because of the good things they do, but only by trusting in the good thing Jesus did. Eph 2:8-9. John 3:16.

Q: Will there be Christians in hell?
A: Yes. Matthew 7:21.

Any other questions?

wayne4loan:
u mean other gigs like blowjjob, doggy and rimming her father's age mate

Because you have caught her doing it on camera na..

It's wrong to think like that about someone and worse to spread such line of thought to others thereby staining her reputation..

You need help.. Seriously..

daddytime:
Too bad say this guy never still change him relaxer.

What a laughable folly.


It says a lot when an overtly religious country and continent shamelessly go cap and plate in hand to beg money from an atheist and his atheist nation who revels in persecuting all forms of religious beliefs instead of taking loans from the many churches and mosques adorning the continent.

LOL.. Funny guy.. Who told you the Chinese are atheists? People that worship their ancestors and all their other idols.. Lol.. They are even more religious than the average Nigerian..

mployer:
Go sidon. Which investment?

All the movies she has acted in her life so far cannot pay for that car.

How do you know? Do you know her finances? Are you her accountant?

You people seem to have a prejudice towards people with material success..

Just because you might sleep around or steal to get money doesn't mean others think that way too yunno?

I'm preety sure she has investments and side gigs... Plus who knows sef the car could be have been bought using a loan? Or she's paying installmentally?

Please stop being so prejudiced.. I'm sure you won't like it if you're in her shoes

If it's a pastor you call him thief, if it's a musician you call him cultists, if it's an actress you call her ashawo.. SMH... Just SMH...

wisdomkid:
That is the difference between a poor man (mentally weak) and rich man (Mentally strong)
There's what we call investment sir.
Because you don't know, don't mean others will not.

Me I don't believe what all these people are saying about the lady sleeping around and all.. I believe she has other gigs beside her acting engagements and her savings plus investments..

Who knows.. She might be paying for the car installmentally or even got a loan for the car..

I don't know why some people like to think bad about other people.. Just cuz one person did/does it doesn't mean others do so as well..

Truvel:
Op, U Av Spoken Well. It's Better To Be A Rich Pastor Dan To Be A Poor Pastor. Most Of Dis Men Of God U See Riding Big Cars Passed Tru Hell B4 Dey Became What Dey Are.

LOL..

Hathor5:
I have not said that people should not read the Bible but a pastor should know more about the Bible than the average person and to have a deeper understanding of the Bible it is not enough to just read it over and over again. You must know the context of each passage, the etymology of words, the audience a passage was directed at, the background of the writers and more.

True that... It's important to have a sound theological background, knowledge of the cultures, languages and so on associated with the scriptures..

MysteryFinder:
Some things might just have overstayed their welcome.

LOL.. Sorry friend, that's not for you to decide.

Your unbelief doesn't make God's faithfulness of void and will not hurt people's hope and convictions.

Praise God.

wunmi590:
Good day nairalanders,

Sorry I have to write this, I have decided to keep it to myself but, I decided to let it out.

Just like every other job seekers who are looking for jobs either to switch to a better pay or change environment.

Though I have been out of job since the COVID-19 pandemic started, I worked in a retail company, but since we have not been called back, I decided to search for job.

I saw an advert and decided to submit my application, just like every other people, luckily after one week or two, I got a mail that I have been shortlisted for their online test and after I pass, I will move to the next stage which is virtual interview before coming to their office to sign my employment letter.

After the mail, like 3 days I got a mail containing my ogin and password for the test, fiam, I opened and I did the test.

After like another 3days, I got a mail from them that I passed the test and i should be expecting a whatsap call from one of their head office in Europe.

Luckily I got the call, from one of the European country number from a Nigerian, believing is the call that would change my life forever.

After the normal introduction and other things like the job functions, the real bible questions started which I was able to scale through it.

Towards the end of the virtual interview, the last question was are you a born again Christian, have you been baptised and what denomination are you?.

And I said yes I'm a born again Christian, I've been baptised and I'm a Roman Catholic.

At the end of my speech his response was, is not possible to be a Catholic and be born again.

He said once you were not taken to the river to be baptised that's not a baptism.

Catholics are not born again Christians and I'm not baptised too just because I was not taken to the river to be baptised.

His last statement was, you actually have the experience but, we need other denomination not Catholic that the job entails somebody who is a real born again Christian.

That was how I lost the job, thinking today being my birthday, I will go to church and do special thanks giving.

First of all, happy birthday.

Now judging from what the person told you, the job requires someone who has the qualifications they are looking for.

Why are you upset? If a job wants a BSc holder and a wassce holder applies shouldn't they reject?

Please stop adding sentiments to things.

ggirl4real:
I'm generally referring to Pastors who do not have their personal or family sources of income other than depending completely on the church members for survival.

Church members are stretched, especially small congregations.

It would be better if such Pastors can go and work or run businesses to reduce the stress on their members who may be secretly murmuring and complaining about the excessive demand for monies in church.

What binds the church is faith in one God.

The church structure is so flexible. A minister gets called by God. People who accept his ministry join him. The minister of God is tasked with being an agent of light and awake spiritually.

The followers of Christ who accept him sustains him materially according to Galatians 6:6 while he feeds them spiritually in a balanced exchange. The tithes and offerings cover the recurrent costs of the ministries and special offerings can be raised for capital projects periodically. 1 cor 9:14.

In all the givings, faith is key. Cain and Abel gave but were differentiated by faith Hebrews 11:4.

The Church is a belief system. And belief is of the heart.

The pastor has a right to the members money. Ten percent is all that's required according to scripture. If anybody gives higher, it's entirely up to them.

And mind you the Bible says 'all good things' so cars, buildings, furniture can all be given to the Pastors personally or the church collectively to facilitate the works of the ministry.

I don't know what church you attend, or how tithing there works, but this is the way it is.

Pastors are SUPPOSED to collect money from members, but members are SUPPOSED to willingly and cheerfully give it. 2 cor 9:6-15 Because ultimately, God will give them back what they have given to Him. It works. I have heard countless testimonies of financial breakthroughs experienced via tithing.

Mind you, most of the prosperity the bishop or other MOG enjoy today is as a result of faithfully tithing, among other things.

Even the Pastors tithe, hope you know? And what they tithe is much more than the members because God places a bigger burden on them.

CodeTemplar:
As for Freeze, I knew it was only a matter of time before harsher govt policies further plunges his supporter-of-convenience army into further poverty and they realize the church is just a loose group of people physically and economically.
What binds the church is faith in one God.

The church structure is so flexible. A minister gets called by God. People who accept his ministry join him. The minister of God is tasked with being an agent of light and awake spiritually.

The followers of Christ who accept him sustains him materially according to Galatians 6:6 while he feeds them spiritually in a balanced exchange. The tithes and offerings cover the recurrent costs of the ministries and special offerings can be raised for capital projects periodically. what is hard to comprehend in that for frozen minded attention seekers?

In all the givings, faith is key. Cain and Abel gave but were differentiated by faith Hebrews 11:4.

The Church is a belief system. And belief is of the heart.

This was beautiful. God bless you, my brother.

ggirl4real:
Please Sir, are you referring to FULL TIME Pastors?

If yes, do you care to explain how economically productive they are?

Well, the church falls under the category of non-profits, so the value the Pastors add to people's lives is the way they contribute to the economy.

When you say full time Pastors are you referring to the likes of oyedepo?

edoairways:
That is not true. Many of them own businesses that employs people,why do think the government is thinking of taxing them

Help me tell am o.... These people are just jealous that a person is living in luxury.. And they don't even know the full story behind it..

ggirl4real:
I have no problem with the ones who own businesses. I don't mean businesses established in the name of the church. I mean owning their personal family businesses.

I know that there are churches that restrict their Pastors from working or owning businesses in the name of being FULL TIME PASTORS. I don't think that is right.

Everyone should be economically productive.

Pastors are economically productive.