₦airaland Forum

This kain advert is bad for business whether you are Nigerian or Biafran.

CLASSIFYD:
I wonder y evry 1s ignoring ma post. . .

Cos your verse dont have line spacing!

Purist:
Zidane = The Lord is my barber

[size=25pt]BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!![/size]

This is taking the piss.

Pls, someone gimme Sony head-office address in London, so we can carry out some guerilla attacks.

Joking aside, I would recommend that all Nigerian community groups in the diaspora are e-mailed this petition, and requested to picket Sony offices worldwide.

naijaking1:
Not sure I totally agree on the river dredging part.

While environmental impact study should and ought to be required before the project is commenced, obstructing the project would be like my town obstructing the construction of the Enugu-Port Harcourt Expressway, simply because it might benefit our enemies.

Nobody is obstructing the project. But carrying out the project without implementing the recommendations of the EMA report will be considered an attack on our ancestral lands and treated as such.

FG should see this as an olive branch for there is no mention of the dreaded constitutional reform which Yar'Adua and Northern elites so fear. Give some, take some.

The perspicuity of language shows that it was also written by Jomo Gbomo or any of the MEND literati, not Government Ekpemupolo.

Finally, the EMA report which states that shore protection is sine qua non for preventing environmental disaster by dredging the River Niger must be implemented. The riverine people demand no less, and any waiving of environmental obligations will be considered an attack on our existence and dignity, and treated as such.

Naija!

Dis Guy:
_{he is about to be replaced!}

Source pls!

Fitz Hall - One size fits all

Bernt Haas - Burnt arse

MEND FC: We pulled out of Drogba deal because of failed MRI test!

Ibime Tamuno, manager of MEND FC has reacted vociferously to Chun Li's claim that Didier Drogba had no interest in joining MEND FC. Speaking to the press, Ibime Tamuno claimed "He (Didier Drogba) did not reject MEND FC. We had already agreed a fee with Reptilez FC and personal terms with Didier Drogba. Infact, we conducted a medical on Didier Drogba. However we had to pull out of the deal because of some worrying findings that emerged from his MRI test.". He went on to add: "Risk management procedures do not allow us to offer long-term contracts to players whose physical condition cannot be guaranteed over the term of that contract." This has raised eyebrows across the football world as pundits speculate that Didier Drogba may be older than he claims to be.


More to follow. . . .


Sulman Ahmad,
Goal.com

Epiphany:
I was one of those who thought that Adenuga was IBB's front. More recent events have made me align my thinking to yours.

Care to expatiate on these recent events?

I can also become a believer too.

Anyways, I believe Mike Adenuga knows how to keep his nose clean by staying out of politics. He saw what happened to MKO and learnt from it.

However, I will not be joining in appreciation of him cos I do not know his actions, and neither do most people.

FACE:
Why do you like in getting into what you know next to nothing about or[b] am I misunderstanding your comments [/b] ?

I think its fair to say that the latter is the case.

You have completely misrespresented my positions and twisted my words to suit whatever you fancy. Hence you twisted my words in the other thread only to come back to agree with me that fallout from the mortgage crisis would be nuanced by Islamic banking.

If I say banking system, I am talking about these 5 banks in particular. Ambiguous perhaps.

As for all your other yarnings about affordability/availability/artificial demand, Im tired of trashing same issues with you. If you wanna continue that, you can step to the other thread.

[quote author=Xavier. link=topic=317577.msg4467509#msg4467509 date=1251889853]Ibime

Apparently, u re not well informed about current happenings in Nigeria.

Havent u heard that Sanusi spent N100bn printing out the N420bn, so where does electronic thing come in?

Unlike in the UK, where the quantive easing was carried out via electronic injection of capital into the economy, Sanusi decided to PRINT OUT N420 billion.[/quote]Are you sure about this. . . . I read the report that the process cost N100bn and I have every reason to take it with a pinch of salt. .  . .you know what Nigerian journalists are like. . .

Sanusis words were "We basically created extra assets on the balance sheet". . . . the printing of money may not be physical.

Anyway, I await confirmation from CBN whether the money was physically printed or not. I am 80% sure it was not.

It would do you good to read this post:

chuckvyl:
The CBN has the ultimate power to print money without recourse to the national assembly.

The guy who was saying that it took the congress of America weeks to approve  the 700 billion dollar injection into the economy; Does America and Nigeria have the same constitution?

Anyway what the US congress approved was Obama's economic policy to borrow money from the Fed Reserve and then use it to re-engineer the economy.what they approved was the content of the economic policy which has nothing to do with Fed Reserve's ability to print money.

The Fed Reserve never got approval to print money from the congress.The way it works is,as soon as the policy was approved by the government,the government now turned to the ultimate lender(Fed Reserve) which serves as America's central bank to print money bc America has no reserve being in debt of over 1 trillion dollars already.(mind you  they have the advantage of borrowing in their own currency)

It smacks of ignorance and financial illiteracy when somebody in this forum said that it costs 400 billion to print 400 billion.Infact the total amount of printed cash in circulation is always far lower than the total amount of liquidity in the system at any point in time.

No paper money is printed dude.The central bank will just credit the accounts of those banks with the value injected bc every commercial bank in the land maintains an account with the central bank just like every customer of a bank has an account with a bank.for example,if you apply for loan or overdraft and your bank approves it,do they really give you cash?Your account will be credited with the value of the loan electonically.

The central bank controls liquidity in the country by either recalling money by selling bills(paper debts or gilts) or by printing money(lending to banks)

[quote author=Xavier. link=topic=317577.msg4467509#msg4467509 date=1251889853]Dont get it wrong, am not against bail out, infact am in full support of it.[/quote]I would feel better if you were not in support of bailout.

Im may not in support of bailout until someone answers this question:

(1.) What is the "strategic risk" posed to the economy by the failure of the banks? Sanusi says the risk is strong. However, is the economy that dependent on the credit they provide to it?

Mike Adenuga who has long served as a conduit for a lot of IBB's financial mago-mago?


Oya, this is the Abacha appreciation thread.

Under Abacha, inflation jumped to 60%, civil servants were not paid, and democracy was stifled by machine guns. However, the Super Eagles were always well sponsored. The South Africa 1996 debacle notwithstanding, we must show appreciation for Abacha because he was the no1 football fan in Nigeria.

Similarly, I would like to laud the efforts of Rotimi Amaechi who has invested several Ghana must go bags into the progress of the Super Eagles, and currently heads the Presidential committee to ensure that Super Eagles qualify for WC2010. Pls dont mention the N500 bn that recently went missing from Rivers State coffers.

mykali:
it took me so long to realize this was the new Freestyle Lounge

check . . .

its him again . . .the homie this niggaz are afraid of
here to drop more bombs on these jew men like Adolf
this aint no face/off . . .like Nic Cage to John Travolta
but i'll be the villain to you Jack.S like Captain Barbosa
the Myk so hot, makes thiz cold niggaz wanna be gettin closer
but they cant touch me, bcuz i got homo . . .phobia
and they cant test me bcuz i kill faster than Ebola
making connects like Nokia while they broke like Motorolla
the best of their freestyles is the one done by the pool side
my punchlines so poisonous, these niggaz call me Mr Suicide
when the Myk is out for battle, would you rather be on whose side?
its time to decide, or get punchlined by this lyrical heavyweight
Mykali'z on the paperchase while y'all remain granni'z favourite . . .like Babyface

Flows tight. . . . nice use of multis. . . nice punches in bold. . .

[quote author=Xavier. link=topic=317577.msg4467279#msg4467279 date=1251888113]Ibime

U re deviating frm the point. TARP fund was set aside by the US congress to address the credit crisis in the country in 2008. The Fed reserve didnt just wake up one morning and decide to start rolling out dollars.[/quote]Stop dribbling yourself. Since you agree that the TARP fund was a 'bailout', how can you claim that money was not created by fiat for a bailout?

Your argument is incoherent to say the least. TARP is a bailout, Sanusi's buying of assets is also a bailout.


[quote author=Xavier. link=topic=317577.msg4467279#msg4467279 date=1251888113]The big question is when was the order for the print given (weeks before August 14, I reckon)? If so, how did Sanusi know he would be needing exactly N420 billion? Or was he already planning all these before he joined CBN?[/quote]Order for print? This thing was done electronically.

Like I said, I dont get your point.

The valid point against quantitative easing was given by 4Play and that concerns the fact that inflation is still healthy, meaning that the banks in question pose little risk to the supply of money in the economy. Sanusi claims supply of money was negative in the first half of the year, hence his resort to quantitative easing. I believe that there may be a disconnect somewhere because a negative supply of money should be reflected by strong disinflation or even deflation.

All these leave me with a few questions, and I hope someone can answer these:

(1.) Basically, what is the "strategic risk" posed to the economy by the failure of the banks? Sanusi says the risk is strong. However, is the economy that dependent on the credit they provide to it?

[quote author=Xavier. link=topic=317577.msg4467206#msg4467206 date=1251887548]Havent u heard of the TARP fund?[/quote]And buying Troubled Assets from troubled banks does not constitute "bailing them out".

What did Sanusi buy from our troubled banks?

4Play made the point on inflation and liquidity of money supply which is correct. I dont know what point you're making.

[quote author=Xavier. link=topic=317577.msg4466998#msg4466998 date=1251885761]Ibime

US did not print notes for the bail out. Stop mis-informing us.[/quote]What did they print it for then?

Pls answer.

I would take this story with a pinch of salt.

I dont think the money was physically printed. It was prolly created electronically.

Akanniade:
It looks like the house of reps have their own agenda. If their multiple commitees and sub commities had been working in the first place they would have been the ones to bring this banking mess to light.

GBAM!!!

sirwebs:
@Debo, window don close. Make your team analysis.

So Wenger did not make any more signings?

That means one injury to Song or Gallas/Vermaelen and its same old story again?

Na wa for Pa Wenger sha.

Oh Nigeria!

You cannot know who to believe anymore. Journalists are in overdrive.

doyin13:
well. . . . . I would like to know any suggestions as to how a collapse
of the banking system would have been averted without pumping money
into the banking system.

Whether through printing money or through borrowing money or whatever means anyone
thought was better, it was a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Truth be told, the banking system poses little risk to the economy as a whole.

In quantitative terms, since the banks are suffering a credit freeze and inflation is still healthy, that means supply of money in Naija is still fairly liquid irrespective of the health of the banks. Thats because lenders (banks) do not permeate the real economy; and because nuccas still keep cash money under their pillow. Hence there is no reason to bail any bank out.

I think the question of bailout is more one of preventing an unquantifiable loss of trust in the Nigerian banking system from foreign and local investors, especially considering that the banking system is still in its infancy.


@ Jarus/4Play,

Do you support bailout of any of these banks?

Waziri is just making shakara. Can she bring any case to court out of all this?

FACE:
Your ignorance and ineptitude on the subject in which you seek to debate on will not let you realise that easy loans were not only given by subprime lenders but by main stream lenders as well. Easy means lowered criteria on this occasion like LTV and income to loan ration.

You are the only one seeking to classify lenders into "subprime" and "mainstream". I am not concerned with that definition and it has nothing to do with my argument.

The main crux of my argument remains that these easy loans (leading to artificial demand) would not be available under Islamic banking.

FACE:
You speak as a novice and I talk as someone on the ground and with first hand experience. I can pick a novice from a mile when I see one.

Do you know what ? We can only go round in cycles and I won't be responding to further posts from you on this regard. I have been in the thick of this since 2002 and have witnessed and have been involved with the rises and falls and I am happy with my opinion,just as I am sure that you are happy with yours.

Your years of experience as an estate agent/loan approval agent etc mean nothing to me. You still wouldnt know how what you do affects the economy anymore than the jeweller in the high street knows how the jewelry he sells affects the premium on gold options on the Chicago Merchantile Exchange. In other words, you are a macro-economic novice and that much is shown by your classification of "demand" as not depending on "ability to pay"

4 Play:
Printing money is only justifiable, if ever, where the economy faces serious threat of deflation.

In that case, we are as condemnable as the Yanks who also printed money for bailout.

I dont think money supply is the overriding issue here (with regards to inflation/deflation argument). If it was, we still have enough leverage to cut interest rates rather than resort to borrowing or quantitative easing.

I just believe the nucca had a blackhole of N420bn to fill (for bailout), and his option was between borrowing and printing.

I am not saying printing is better than borrowing. I dont know. Both still have devaluating effect on the Naira.

princekevo:
We all knew how many weeks it took the US house to approve the $700 billion bailout bill for their banks,
But only In Nigeria that someone will jst wake up one morning and declare 5banks in distress and inject N400billion overnight without consulting the House of assembly, even if they were on reccess.

Ol' boy, forget Naija House of Reps abeg. Can they pass any bill expediently without having their palms greased? If they had half the integrity of the US House of Reps, I for gree with your point, but the nuccas in our House of Reps would understand the vagaries of how money supply affects inflation if they did a PHD in Economics. The only money supply they know is how much is going into their pockets to pass this bill.

Imagine House of Reps who fight each other over the allocation of Jeeps, and a speaker of the House who believes that Nigerians do not deserve Education, abi na electricity wey him talk. I don forget. Anyway, phock the House of Reps.

[quote author=Xavier. link=topic=317577.msg4461980#msg4461980 date=1251812795]Ibime

Last i checked, those countries u mentioned injected capital to stipulate their economies. The closest to what Sanusi has done, is the quantative easing, being proposed in the UK, and even that does not involve minting new currencies.

So u still good grounds for getting a refund from your tutors[/quote]Pls stop dribbling yourself.

PapaBrowne:
Seriously, you should know that there are only 3 currencies in the world that can actually use quantitative easing without experiencing inflation! And that's the Euro, Pound and Dollar.

Even the Euro, Pound and Dollar risk inflation by quantitative easing.

Of course, I already stated thus:

Ibime:
Nothing wrong with a bit of quantitative easing. We will see the effect on inflation maybe.

Therefore, I dont need a refund! 


Whichever way Sanusi chose to address the problem, he risked devaluing the Naira and subsequent inflation.


If he borrowed money and increased our trade deficit, the Naira faces risk of devaluation.

If he let the banks fail, he causes panic, local and foreign investors lose holdings, Naira risks devaluation.

If he chooses quantitative easing (which he did), Naira risks devaluation.


Whichever way, the problem requires Naija to take some hits.

Until anyone analyses the three economic models available to Sanusi from which he made his decision, any judgement would be too hasty.

FACE:
No point arguing with you. Go and learn what subprime lending is before we continue this arguement. If you said that over exposure would be averted/limited under Islamic banking, maybe you would have a point.

Text book economist, prices just dont rise and fall in order to fit into your lala land curve.

Availability of easy loans led to high demand of housing properties which led to astronomical rise in property prices.

The fall in property prices was as a result of the scarcity of loans to potential buyers , especially first time buyers who are the main engine of the property market. This led to few people chasing after available properties.

Even those who could afford loans were unable to obtain loans due to to no funds for loans.

Even though now is the cheapest time to obtain loans, lenders are still not lending money to people. Now the trend is changing as there are now fewer houses in the markets with slightly revived interest from buyers and approval of more morgages. Trust me I should know about this.

To be honest, after revealing your sciolism and proving yourself to know nothing of what you speak of, I can only indulge your argument further out of sheer magnanimity. As a result of me pointing out your ineptitude in basic principles of economics, you have chosen to use an abrasive method of communication to get your point across.

Your post just sounds like a covert retreat on your part.

The bolded is what I've been saying all along.

No need to argue with me, cos you came back full circle to agree with me.

In your own words:

"Availability of easy loans led to high demand of housing properties which led to astronomical rise in property prices."

If you agree that the demand was high, then the only question left to ask to end this debate is whether the high demand was artificial or not.

You evidently believe it wasnt artificial.  I say it is. The high level of default proves it is.

Your only recourse is to argue that it isnt artificial because credit ratings allow it. Again, a systemic flaw which would be nuanced by Islamic banking.

With reference to our debate, the only question to ask would be: Would these "easy loans" be available under Islamic banking?

Second argument is the securitisation of mortgages argument which you fall flat on and have refused to address. Again, another practice discouraged by Islamic banking.

FACE:
You are mistaken the inability to pay with demand.

No need to read through your long post.

The content quoted already disqualifies your argument.

Inability to pay IS lack of demand.

Demand and Need are not interchangeable terms as you argue.

Hence the simple supply-demand curve which you learn in Principles of Economics. Price-elasticity of demand states that when prices drop, demand increases for a normal good. Since Housing is a normal good, your argument disqualifies itself.

If demand increases when prices drop, that means more people can now afford it. If the price is too high (as house prices are/were), then demand drops. Since unscrupulous lenders allowed subprime clients to buy something they could not truly afford, artificial demand was created.

We would all like to own private jets. That doesnt mean demand for private jets is 100% of the Worlds population. Only those that can afford it are qualified as contributing to "demand".

Hence, my statement stands that "Under Islamic banking, the artificial demand which led to the credit crunch would have been averted".


You are also wrong in stating this:

FACE:
When you take a loan from a subprime lender, you own them directly and not that bull shit of supposedly owing another bank whom the loan was "packaged" for. Banks have their own underwriters !

No one is concerned who you owe or do not owe. Mortgage securitisation (ie packaging of home loans into pools to sell to other investors) was widely proliferated. Since lenders could securitise mortgages and sell them on to banks etc, their primary concern was not the ability of the client to pay the mortgage. Their primary concern was selling off the securities and making their bucks. All these would not happen under Islamic banking, or dare I say, common-sense banking.

GEW:
which is better to leave the tree and people continue to live in bondage and oppression or destroy the tree and people are set free? i prefer the tree be gone. like i said our people like darkness too much so any tree that does not bear forth good fruit shall be uprooted.

Since pastors also put us in bondage by declaring our children to be witches, taking one-tenth gross of our hard-earned money to live lavishly, and fraternising with the corrupt political classes who oppress us, should we also suggest that these trees churches which do not bear good fruit be uprooted?

In that case, since the Ogboni should "fight for himself", one should have to face no repercussions for burning down a church as Jehovah can also "fight for himself".

This fulfills Prophet Primate Adebayos prediction that 2 actresses will die this year.

May her soul R.I.P