₦airaland Forum

donstan18:
But you said he had 5 assists? Why 4 now?

And then, why is it always okay for you to bring stats from sites to troll Jorginho, but you fume when it’s used against your favorite players?

You also brought out stats to discredit Mikel’s game starting in 2013, now you don’t like Wiki stats again?

Stats said this, you initially said 5 assists. Who should we believe now?

You are being foolish and arguing for argument sake.

There is a reason Whoscored do not provide stats before 2009 and that's because data has become reliable as we make advancements in time.

Mikel starting only 10 games in 2013 is a fact as is all the data collected over Jorginhos career and I can quote them anywhere.

You cannot pull Wikipedia and tell me Oliseh only made two assists in AFCON 2014 when your eyes can see four clean ones. Some of those sites will even tell you data before a certain time may or may not be reliable. Opta was only founded in 1996 for example, long after this AFCON and probably didn't come to consencus and trustworthiness until deep into the internet era. Data those days relies on a journalist at the ground maybe sending a Teletext to BBC. And that's one the problem foolish young people make when comparing players from different eras by looking at Wikipedia, stats or awards.

It doesn't matter whether you call it 4 or 5 assists. I added the penalty assist and the preassist to show his influence. Anyone who watched the Ivory Coast game will understand the importance of that preassist because Ivory Coast were giving us hot and that goal made the score 2-2, after which we went on to win on penalties. All these attempts at distraction won't take away from the fact the Slowbie escort has never played a tournament for Super Eagles remotely comparable to this. Nigeria scored 9 goals in 5 games in that tournament and Oliseh was key to 6 of them, including 4 clean assists, a penalty assist and a preassist. Simple.

donstan18:
Lmao! Which one be PK assist, Pre-assist and post-assist nh?

Your eyes can at least view 4 clean assists there plus one pass that led to a penalty. But as usual, you went to Wikipedia to tell you what your eyes can see korokoro, further outlining your foolishness of relying on Wikipedia to argue things you never saw. Which of the four incidents below are not clean assists by any standard?


https://gifrun.com/programs/temp/c9027578f1354a34bc388958e1070cf0.gif

https://gifrun.com/programs/temp/72d3ec03d23d4595b3eae973ec54de8e.gif

https://gifrun.com/programs/temp/fce00be1f1084c3aae71d3653b815081.gif

https://j.gifs.com/P7AnW6.gif

For the record, the performance of Oliseh in AFCON 1994 tournament has never been matched before or since by any Nigerian midfielder. 5 assists in 5 games playing as a DM. Give-I-give escorts will never come close to this man who protects his defence with tenacity and speed, controls the game in midfield and supplies his strikers aplenty like Pirlo. This is all while playing DM. Anyone should show me a better tournament played by a Super Eagles midfielder ever. I will wait. What eyes have seen, Wikipedia will not tell you.


Final vs Zambia - winning assist

https://gifrun.com/programs/temp/c9027578f1354a34bc388958e1070cf0.gif

Semifinal vs Ivory Coast - preassist for equalizer

https://gifrun.com/programs/temp/c93edbd146144926b60842fd01c3a222.gif


Quarterfinal vs Zaire - two winning assists

https://gifrun.com/programs/temp/72d3ec03d23d4595b3eae973ec54de8e.gif

https://gifrun.com/programs/temp/e31b49cfd3aa4603a719d2f979277951.gif


Group stage vs Gabon - two winning assists

https://gifrun.com/programs/temp/fce00be1f1084c3aae71d3653b815081.gif

https://j.gifs.com/P7AnW6.gif

.

donstan18:
2011/2012, Mikel made 37 appearances, we both know what he did in they UCL.

While we count the 2012 he “Disgraced” Chelsea according to you, should we also count the fact the he won UCL in that 2012 by not getting carried?

I’ll say it again...

Individual awards, trophies, level of success, achievements and anything you can’t to use, Mike will top Hoe-Lisa.

There’s no rank or list that Mikel won’t come first before Hoe-Lisa.

These are facts. They’re clear, they’re out there, sentiment can’t change them.

I simply asked you to prove me wrong that Mikel only started 10 league games in the year 2013, and based on that, his African POTY 2nd place is fugazi. Cut the shalaye. I am waiting for your proof.

Adding up 5 mins appearances won't cut it. Thats the story of Mikel's career that looks good to you Wikipedia analysts cos Wikipedia won't tell you 80% of those appearances are at the end of match. First bench nigga to compete for African POTY. What a disgrace to Africa to allow a bench rider that can't displace Oriol Romeu and David Luiz from DM to compete for POTY.

donstan18:
Fact remains that he placed second in 2013 African Award and won 2013 Afcon with European trophy too.

Another fact remains that he made 38 appearances 2012/13 season and also made 36 appearances in 2013/14.

Bench warmers don’t make 74 appearances in 2 seasons for a club, winning National major trophy and European trophy.

Fact remains most of his appearances in 2012/13 came in 2012 where he disgraced Chelsea out of the UCL group stage and had us overran in midfield and slipped off the league.

Fact remains he was so useless as the only natural DM that Oriol Romeu a youth player was brought in to kick him away, and when Oriol Romeu got injured, managers made do with David Luiz in midfield or brought non-DMs in Ramires and Lampard to reprise the role. And everytime these managers went to beg for new DM, Emenalo shut them down to protect his brother, yet as the only DM in the squad, he still could not start more than 10 league games that calendar year, which is an utter disgrace.

Your 5 minutes cameo appearances at the end of the match won't help you escape the fact that Mikel Slowbie only started 10 league games in the Year of our Lord 2013, and won African 2nd best POTY as a POLLING BOOTH award for Sunday Mbas match winning performances in AFCON.

Sunday Oliseh will be damned to be the only senior DM in a club and have Oriol Romeu, David Luiz , Lampard and Ramires preferred to him all year in the DM position. That's how inept Slowbie was at the DM position outside the bus parking setup of RDMs UCL run. We thank God for the introduction of Onazi to Super Eagles that finally brought stability to the defensive midfield for 2013 AFCON after that escort had been disgracing us back to back in that position for 9 years.

donstan18:
2012/13, Mikel Obi made 38 appearances for Chelsea.

Did well in Afcon and won it.

They robbed him that award.

Everyone knows this.

Everybody knows that Benitez was in seat at Chelsea from late 2012 and saw out 2013 and Mourinho was in seat from August 2013 and both thoroughly hated Mikel. Mikel is even lucky that Oriol Romeu copped a knee ligament injury otherwise he wouldn't have made bench cos Benitez had already thrown him away for Romeu before that unfortunate injury allowed him to play here and there. Both these managers would rather play David Luiz in midfield than Mikel. This is the difference between those who know offhand and Wikipedia analysts.

How can a useless player who rode bench all year and whose club managers will rather play centrebacks in midfield have been robbed.

Mikel Obi only started 10 league games in the year 2013. That was the year he placed second in African POTY. Prove me wrong.

donstan18:
That 1998 was the Kay time Hoe-Lisa scored for Super Eagles, infact that was the only year he ever scored for Super Eagles.

But such person should be rated against a Legend like Mikel who bossed the midfield in the two biggest game of his career?

Never!

Oliseh won his award by being integral to Ajax double, finishing 17 points above PSV and trashing the same PSV 5-0 in the cup final, and also for his world cup performance

For the record, Mikel Obi only started 10 league games for Chelsea in the whole year of 2013. Both Benitez and Mourinho didn't like him

Same 2013, he placed second in African POTY thanks to the performance of this Warri Wolves player that helped Nigeria win AFCON

That's the definition of a SENIOR MAN polling booth award like the ones Dani Alves still used to win 5 years after practical retirement

donstan18:
Hoe-Lisa came 3rd, not 2nd. Mike is still bossing him in that settings.

You discredit Mikel coming 2nd, but wants to rate Hoe-Lisa for coming 3rd in the same award. Lmao!!

Based on this, Amuneke, Ikpeba and Moustapha Hadji > Okocha. Discuss.

At least we know Oliseh won his for performance on the pitch not for being the senior man in an AFCON winning team after riding the bench for Chelsea the whole year of 2013 and being thoroughly outperformed in the same tournament for which he was recognised by Warri Wolves player Sunday Mba.

donstan18:
Mikel’s awards? Chelsea young player of the year.. 2007/08.

Name one young player in Chelsea first team squad in 2007/2008

donstan18:
Runner up in African footballer of the year.

Wikipedia did not show you that Oliseh pretty much did the same in 1998 without even playing AFCON, just based on his European and World Cup performance alone.

Mikel was sent forth from Nigeria because they needed to recognise our Nations Cup win, and he was the only senior man there. Even local league player like Sunday Mba far outperformed him in that tournament

Jodera:
Words on Marble.


The bolded na the perfect conclusion

This is Diego Someones only individual award despite being easily one of the top 5 or ten DMs in the 1990s, which is Oliseh era

Yet the arrogant young man is asking me to go to Wikipedia and compare Obis awards to Oliseh. Only experience will tell you we didn't have much awards then, and not the kind of awards that defensive midfielders collect easily.

I would soon be told Obi is greater than Simeone by the arrogant young man given Simeone never won UCL nor any individual awards. Same UCL criteria he used to place Drogba above R9. Ego speaking.

donstan18:
Real legends won lots of individual awards in the 1990s, insults won’t save from argument.

Bring out Olisheh’s individual awards. I dare you.

Bring out Mikel's individual awards, let's examine them in comparison to Oliseh. You will start yapping about Under-20 Silver ball when Oliseh never played youth football for Nigeria, or will you start yapping about AFCON team of the tournament that never existed in Olisehs day that Oliseh will easily walk into?

Note this in closing. Oliseh was signed back-to-back by 3 recent UCL winners (Ajax, Juve and Dortmund). That's the equivalent today of a player going from Madrid to PSG to City to Bayern back to back to back.

Slowbie was made available for as little as £5m several times during his Chelsea career when he was unwanted by managers and nobody took the bait. The best we heard was interest from a decrepit InterMilan, while Mikel used his political connections at Chelsea to sit on his juicy contracts while hugging the bench and being unwanted by several managers from AVB to Benitez to Mourinho. The same Slowbie is bounced around Middlesborough to Trabzonspor to Stoke to China while Oliseh was going from UCL winner to UCL winner to UCL winner consistently.

Wikipedia can never tell you the value of a player you didn't watch.

donstan18:
Trophies and achievements are the major metric in rating players. That’s a fact.

Now let’s leave these major things and use individual awards.

Can you help me with Oliseh’s individual awards?

What is Obis individual award. Your foolishness of youth about to speak again via Wikipedia. But before you quote any foolish award, ask yourself whether that award existed in the 1990s

donstan18:
Who brought out link first to hype a player? You did!

Who started talking about performances in Tournaments? You did.

As I don choke you with the same energy, you’ve started talking about “Before my time” as usual. Why not bring their stats, achievements and trophies to counter as you normally do?

E hard you??

Oliseh is shiit and his biggest achievement was scoring long shot against Spain. Such person can never lace the boot of this legend.

You might as well tell me Ikpeba is greater than Yekini. Run to Wikipedia and pull up Ikpeba trophies won in Europe.

Oliseh record and performance with Super Eagles far far outmatches anything Mikel can bring to the table.

Oliseh never failed to qualify Super Eagles to AFCON like Obi did TWICE. Oliseh never failed to qualify Super Eagles to World Cup like Obi did TWICE. Oliseh never failed to take Super Eagles out of World Cup group stage like Obi did TWICE. Oliseh never failed to make AFCON final like Obi did 6 times. Oliseh won the Olympics against more or less the same Brazil team that won the 2002 World Cup.

Arrogance of talking about something you never saw is not a good trait in a man. It's ego speaking.

Godx:
You still don't rate Busquet who won champions league and numerous trophies without bus parking. You are never here or there. You will always have one area to hold on to. One minute you are criticizing Iniesta with stats then the next you will ignore stats when it gets to Fabregas and jump into work rate to suit your agenda.

Was Fabregas an attacking player for Chelsea, was Iniesta a defensive player? Busquet is as useless at stopping counterattacks as Mikel. That Xavi and co didn't let opponents touch ball to attack him is not evidence of his ability to be an effective DM on the halfway line

I spoke about supporting Ajax in 2009 or so, how much time did you spend digging on me to bring that up? I am now discussing with someone, you are bringing your obsession with me to the fore. Swerve with your negative energy. Don't quote me again.

donstan18:
Those two links I posted will always be greater than whatever Oliseh did in his career.

How will Mikel posting 1 assist in AFCON 2013 as a CM be greater than Oliseh posting 4 assists in AFCON 1994?

You too dey talk chochocho. Learn when to close mouth when speaking about anything before your time.

Nothing Mikel did on International stage will match Adepoju, talkless of Oliseh, the conqueror of AFCON, the conqueror of the greatest Brazilian and Argentinian teams ever seen in the Olympics.

Just use that UCL final bus parking hold yourself, after all Bosingwa is the greatest cemtreback the Camp Nou has ever seen based on that same bus parking.

donstan18:
Mikel on Chelsea biggest night in UCL 2012.

⏪ John Obi Mikel's key role in Chelsea's 2012 final victory 🔝

🏆 @mikel_john_obi #MondayMotivation | @ChelseaFC | #UCL pic.twitter.com/Cfuoi1diyD

— UEFA Champions League (@ChampionsLeague) April 26, 2021

This performance alone and achievement is bigger than whatever Oliseh did in his career.

Someone that would have turned to a dm under Mou.

Would never rate a DM over a bus parking performance just like Jogginghoe. When Mikel was asked to play normally in the next UCL, he disgraced Chelsea and knocked us out of the UCL group stage for the first time ever and had to apologise. Both Juve and Shakhtar completely overran him. Anything to do with running, just write off Slowbie. UCL 2012, he didn't have to run as Chelsea did not leave their 18 yard box.

And no, Mikel never won any Europa league. He was sent to the bench where he belongs after disgracing Chelsea all season.

hensben:
Can Oliseh even make it in that Chelsea squad. Who chased Oliseh from super eagles. Na that goal against Spain still Dey everybody memory.

Oliseh and Finidi started a protest against NFF prior to 2002 World Cup for unpaid bonuses hence were chased from the team for scrubs like Justice Christopher, Femi Opabunmi and the likes. NFF politics.

Oliseh as an Eagles player never once failed to reach AFCON final, won the Olympics, and put up our best showings at the World Cup. If not for CAF sanctions in 1996 and 1998, I'm sure he would have taken those two tournaments.

Slowbie was a disgrace for Super Eagles, getting overrun and bullied every tournament by every Mali, Ghana and co, failing to even qualify for AFCON twice and the world cup twice. They had to bring in real DM legs in Onazi and running legs in Sunday Mba for Super Eagles midfield to look competitive in 2013.

Clubwise Oliseh did his thing at Cologne, Ajax and Dortmund during a time when Africans get few chances. Obi was a perennial bench warmer in Chelsea being protected by Emenalo and having good relationships with Roman through his wife's father. Roman used to conduct business meetings in Obis house sef. Same Obi was chased and relegated from China, chased from Middlesborough, Trabzonspor and Stoke. He should thank God for political favour that kept him in Chelsea through his brother Emenalo and his Russian wife connection.

hensben:
Ok. And he played for Chelsea for 10 years. Remind me Oliseh record individually.

8 of those years on the bench while his red cap brother Emenalo was feeding him new contracts.

Roland17:
I remember the screamer during France1998 against Spain that beat Zubizarreta!

Go and check his assists in 1994 AFCON. Watch these two short videos below. Niggas was Pirlo for Nigeria before we knew that DM supposed to be dropping long balls for the no9.

Oliseh can control midfield here, you will wonder why he was tagged as a DM.

Mikel Obi. Spits.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLWLiQ4_n2U


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXxsP2GNc3k

hensben:
Ibime said Mikel was chased from DM by Onazi which is false. Mikel was a dynamic midfield, ie he can play DM, CM and attacking midfielder unlike Oliseh. Mikel was the only Nigeria footballer that played professionally in fifa confederation cup.

Mikel Slowbie the perennial bench player for Chelsea can never be compared to Oliseh. He was inept as a DM, constantly overrun, escorting players upandan until Onazi came to do the job for him. Mikel success in 2012 UCL was under extreme bus parking. Anything involving running, just forget Slowbie. That's why he disgraced Chelsea the next season. No let bus parking deceive you. Oliseh can never be his mate in DM position

Joezinho:
Oliseh was a better DM, but I think Mikel was better player in general because he had offensive capabilities that Oliseh didn't have. .

Oliseh had more offensive capabilities than Mikel, leave that one.

Oliseh over the top to Yekini, it's a goal.

AFCON 1994, Oliseh dropped 4 assists in 6 games.

NinjaXmetahuman:
you didn't get..

People who were still in between arsenal and Chelsea before he came, made full decision to fully join Chelsea after Abrahamovic bought Chelsea.

In between for 5 years? It did not take me 3 months to discount the idea of joining Arsenal because of Kanu sha

Kanu was already halfway chased out of Arsenal before Roman came.

hensben:
Oliseh was ok but not in Mikel’s level.

Go and seek pennance for this blasphemy

They had to chase Mikel out of DM with Onazi and bring Sunday Mba to hustle for the snail before Super Eagles midfield could even look sensible and tough to play against

NinjaXmetahuman:
yes o.
Abrahamovic buying Chelsea and satellite becoming more accessible just made the decision easier for Chelsea fans having that dilemma.

Thats false na cos Abramovic came 5 years after Kanu

NinjaXmetahuman:
I also leaned towards arsenal briefly when kanu joined arsenal after France 98. I remember hating it whenever kanu didn't start games then

You just highlighted the dilenma of every Nigerian Chelsea fan then

Godx:
What made you jump from Ajax to Chelsea?

Moving to England

Still kept Ajax and Inter as second teams till Kanu/Ronaldo/Finidi left respectively

raumdeuter:
Oliseh beats all of then even as a modern DM

Oliseh was one of the first of the modern DMs. He had everything, game control, pace, positioning and passes over the top

Some of us have been supporting Chelsea since Coors Light was our sponsor, before Autoglass and then Emirates took over.

timbros:
Play one. Bench one. Bin one.

Purely as DM. Number 4.

Play Oliseh, bench Ndidi, bin Obi

Blaxhex:
funny things is, kounde never played as part of a back 3 three for Sevilla, he was always in a back 2 flanked by Jesus navas in right back. Sevilla uses the 4 3 3 formation.

EPL is not Spain with midget strikers and few aerial balls

Singapore1:
But I would take Deligt over kounde…
He is just too small for a CB

I no send either of them to be honest, but at leas Kounde get speed. Kounde will be good in a 3 man defence, the wahala with his height will become noticeable if we switch to back 4