₦airaland Forum

shdemidemi: I believe that is what the natural mind tries to think out/ grasp. If you don't want to be left with such paradox, the solution to the puzzle is seeing that the king that will reign is actually 'one' with the father.

The king that has been appointed to reign recognizes someone as his superior who gave him rulership and kingdoms.......

It is obvious that the giver is not under the authority of the givee,while the givee remains under the authority of the giver....

No twisting can get you out of this....

shdemidemi: an heir is a person who inherits what another has after his death. For Christ to get His inheritance has he is entitled to, would God have to die?

Romans 8:17

New International Version
(©2011)
Now if we are children, then we
are heirs--heirs of God and co-
heirs with Christ, if indeed we
share in his sufferings in order
that we may also share in his glory.


I guess God would have to die well well since we are co-heirs with Christ.....

To call you mumu dey hungry me.......

benalvino: why the GOD exist? you think say na only you sabi ask yeye questions?

Lol....

Once upon a time there were 3 persons each of them God but not making 3 Gods....and by some random chance one became 1st in rank,and another second and the other one third......

E be like jamb and waec set exam for the 3 of them then the Father carry first

benalvino: its by nature... it is how its suppose to be.

......

Which nature.??....

Nature made the Father first and Jesus second..........

The catholics have really maimed the truth about GOD....

Its a pity...

benalvino: so say EHUD na savior na... so its a valid question. I cant stop laughing. you go leave nairaland run o. frusbel don see him period like woman.

I no go run...I dey kampe....

I wan finish for this thread first....

benalvino: Father and son simple as that. father comes first in rank son comes 2nd... that is why they call you junior to your father.

Lol......

Who arranged the rank??.....

Them write apptitude test??....

benalvino: lmao... you go kill me for laugh

Mumu wan kill am......

.....

He is asking me who is my saviour...wether ehud or Jesus.....

Smh!!!.....

benalvino: bible the dictionary said it and not the bible

Abeg show me where for scriptures them say na the Father be the first person of the trinity....please.......

benalvino: but you are struggling hard to say Jesus was never worshipped you see the double standard? the NWT use obeisance all over... just today you said you know David was not worshipped now you are saying he was worshipped... please make up your mind let me know where you stand.

Who the angels think is God? they think God is God... which is the father and Jesus... that's is why the cherubim an seraphim worship him and the father... john know Jesus is God... Isaiah know.

Which God did John and isaiah know Jesus is??....the Father??.....

I'm trying to let u see from the worship issue that worship means different thing....

You are the one blaming the NWT all the time.....that is why I used the kjv to show you that the word worship is coined from can be misconstrued by its readers(e.g you and all trinitarians).....

I opened renderings that back up the NWT as regards this issue...even the famous phillipians 2:8-10 shows that Jesus was bowed down to(obeiscance),adored,making the rendering of the word consistent....

Now you claim the angels worship the Father and Jesus and so your dubious mind cannot fathom amongst Jesus and the Father who there(the angels) God is..........

Who do the angels know as there GOD??....

I ask again...

The Father or the Lamb ??

true2god: Since JW are trained confusionist, is Ehud ur savior too or r u just putting him on this context to continue in 'confusionist trading'?

I asked u if Jesus is ur savior and u conditionally answered 'yes'. Ok Ijawkid is ehud ur savior since God also made mention of ehud as a 'savior'.

He can't even grasp the point I've been making.......

Just go to sleep......

benalvino: I already answered the head of Christ is the father... trinity says the father is the first person the son is the 2nd... I don tell you this tire ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Thank God trinity said it and not the scriptures.....


You didn't answer my question...rather you've been running around telling me the magnitude of Jesus' work(dying for us)....

I recognize Yahweh as the over all saviour who sends his representatives to save his people.....

Be it a small village or the whole world....

benalvino: king James version is accurate for you now abi? the point is ijawkid follows the teaching given to him from his congregation... everything you see in the new world translation is what he believes. he believes David was not worshipped because your bible states so... for the sake of arguing he is saying David was worshipped then try to insist that their are different level of worship or the other time he says if we know what worship mean or the other time he say you can give Yahweh exclusive worship. it was clear in exodus that you shall not worship anything before Yahweh.
there are ways bible is translated and if you don't understand it you wont know the meaning... worship prostrate are all meaning of the actual word translated. but over time new dictionary words are coming out and KJV is still the oldest bible and not changed. other bibles are using English to explain the passage sometimes over do it and cause confusion and dither the meaning of the passage.

My problem with you now is that you are struggling so hard to reject the fact that david was worshipped alongside Yahweh(courtesy to the KJV)....

This is exactly the same way I'm struggling to tell you that Jesus is not worshipped in the real sense of worship one gives to the Father whom Jesus worships.......

I asked a question earlier....

Who do you think the angels think is there GOD??.....

Who??....

The lamb or the Father??

benalvino: does it matter if he send him self? look Jesus is the word of GOD... the WORD is GOD... it became flesh... the father sent his word to do the work of GOD. the word is GOD easy

Is the word the Father??......

Answer me...is the word the Father??.....

Stop dribbling yourself.....

I ask you again...

Who sent Jesus and EHUD as saviour respectively??.....

benalvino: what's up with the appointment? wetin appointment get to do with this? The father says Jesus save mankind... the redeemer... something you are trying to take away from him that there are other saviors... who is talking about appointment the real message is the father and jesus are not 2 but one redeemer.

Why shouldn't you look at the person doing the appointing??....

I would keep asking you until you answer and then expose your ignorance......

1 john 4:14
New Living Translation (©2007)
Furthermore, we have seen with our own eyes
and now testify that the Father sent his Son
to be the saviour of the world.


Are your eyes blind to truth or what??.....

Who made Jesus saviour or sent Jesus to save mankind??......

Who??...

benalvino: did he save them from death? Jesus came to pay the ransom... what did he pay? without the ransom the so-called people you said he saved are not saved after all

Did Jesus send himself??....

Was Jesus not chosen and appointed by the Father to be saviour??......

Does the magnitude negate the Father as the sender of all the saviours he has sent right from the times of the isrealites to Jesus??....

benalvino: so why Yahweh say na jesus be the savior and him no call the other people wey need saving from death?
Yahweh for say jesus na the last savior... you be the first and you be the second all of una na savior... una save man kind.... but guess what? jesus save all those savior :p so he saved mankind he is the redeemer don't bring pointless joke for arguing sake you know the truth.

You are just been blind....

I asked a question which you are avoiding....

Did Jesus appoint himself as saviour??.....

Did he??.....

Answer...

Bidam: may be if you are lucky to see isaiah ask him not me.

.....why ask isaiah who wasn't a trinitarian.....isaiah knew that the messiah wasn't Yahweh.....thank you....

Bidam: ask isaiah o..dat statement is so clear even a child could see that it is referring to Jesus as God o.

And is it only Jesus who has been refered to as GOd??...millions out there including satan are refered to as God.....

The question now is,is the person in question the Father who is the one GOD??...

Bidam: phil 2:6-8 is too clear to be ignored.

Your get out of jail card......I asked a simple question...is Jesus equal with the Father now in heaven??....

Answer naaa......

Bidam: you need the real Jesus..not an angel.

I don't think you even know the Jesus the Father sent......

Seems you got a trio combo to deal with....

I know the real Jesus whom the Father sent....

benalvino: he is a savior to his village or mankind? did he conquer death? if jesus did not conquer death EHUD him self is not saved... you get the point?

Did ehud appoint himself as savior of Gods people??.....

You don't get the point I'm making either....

The people ehud saved were they just fools walking on the road or Gods people who God aPpointed him as saviour to liberate??.....

The point here is Yahweh is the sender of all the saviours who had come to the earth irrespective of the magnitude of there saving jobs...

Where are the saviour people...

Nehemiah 9:27

American King James Version
Therefore you delivered them
into the hand of their enemies,
who vexed them: and in the time
of their trouble, when they cried
to you, you heard them from
heaven; and according to your
manifold mercies you gave them
saviors, who saved them out of the
hand of their enemies.


Yahweh has always raised up saviours for his people.....

Jesus is the last of them.......

Yahweh raising up or appointing saviours for his people in no way negates him as the one and only saviour who initiates the salvation process.....

deSika: Ijawkid ijawkid ijawkid how many times did i call you. So you are still defending your falsehood with dodgetiantis here Ijawkid ijawkid ijawkid how many times did i call you. So you are still defending your falsehood with dodgetiantis here

See this alomo bitters drinker......

true2god: Isaiah 45:20-25 says we hav one God & one savior. If u agree with me that Jesus is ur savior, do we den hav two saviors, the father and the son (as against the book of Isaiah quoted)?

Isn't ehud too a saviour??...are you people blind to exegesis or what??...

1...Yahweh appointed EHUD as saviour
2..Yahweh appointed his son Jesus as saviour...


Who is the doing the appointing??.....

benalvino: how can it differ... shake your head well well... the people you call savior did they die for you sins? abeg make I hear tori.... Jesus is the savior the father is the savior there is only one savior....

I did not see other people being the redeemer who died for your sin and your pikkin pikkin sin in advance.

You are still adamant....

Wasn't Jesus appointed by GOD to be the saviour of his people??...wasn't Jesus appointed and chosen by God??...did Jesus choose himself??......


The God who appointed EHUD is he different from the one who appointed Jesus??......

Bidam: even though Jesus is equal to God, He submitted Himself to The father and to the Father's plan. The prophet Isaiah talked about both the deity and humility of God the Son. He said in essence, "You aren't going to believe this report. A Son will be born, and His name shall be called wonderful counselor,the Mighty God" Is 9:6.
Ijawkid you might as well go wake Isaiah and ask him that "what do you mean that this Child, this Son, will be called Mighty God? How can He be God and Son ?"

Why should you submit to some one elses plan whom you claim to be your equal...??....

Now I ask you ::::.....now that Jesus is in heaven is he not still subservient to the Father??......was Jesus surbodinancy temporary??......

Answer.....

And isaiah said he would be called by virtue of power and kingdoms his Father would give to him......isaiah was projecting Jesus as becoming a powerful ruler...

Bidam: becos i am a prophet and the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets, i believe Isaiah response to you would be, He is God, but He TOOK ON THE POSITION OF Man and servant for the sake of your redemption

Jesus isn't the Father and so obediently came to the earth to do his Fathers will.....

Isaiah in no way projects the messiah as equal with God the Father.......

Bidam: purpose necessitated the position. The purpose of God was redemption. The Godhead said," somebody has to go down and submit to us in order to bring salvation of man". so the word of God, who is God himself, said, i will go. i know i am an equal in the Godhead, but for the purpose of redemption, i will be made in the likeness of man and will submit.

Please kindly a place where the ""GOdhead said""..........

You are just saying things that don't exist.....

Which God head said anything??...

The bolded has no biblical backing...

You should be ashamed of yourself....

Jesus said the Father sent him.....learn to stick with that truth and stop this childs play of Godhead sending one part it to be submissive...

You are just sick...

benalvino: so if I save my village it means I save the World abi? no worry there is only one savior which is jesus and the father...

Smh!!!!....

Benalvino.....

The delivering job might defer in magnitude,but how does that negate the fact that it was Yahweh who sent EHUD and Jesus respectively to be saviour to his people.......

Even if na one small batcher I save in contrast to the whole world,na still Yahweh send us.......chikena.....

You guys always read meanings into everything because of the trinity....


E no good oo.....

Abeg make I go read for my test them.....

true2god: @ Ijawkid, is Jesus ur saviour or not?

Yes......the appointed one God the Father sent as saviour...

true2god: Accordin to JW, God didnt create satan but Jesus did. Nothin can be more contradictory dan dis.

Through Jesus......

Oboy wetin JW them do you na??.....

Have you replied the post where you thought because Jesus could forgive sins so that makes him equal to his Father??....

Have you not been shocked to see that we can forgive sins......

Are God the Father??

benalvino: since the son is the savior and the father is the savior we have only one savior that is my point... that savior is Jesus and that savior is the father also yet we have only one savior

And then we also have EHUD in the saviour line..that makes it 3.........

You guys just can't understand anything.....

Please when Yahweh raised EHUD as savior to his people,did Yahweh stop being the saviour of his people??......
Acts 5:31

New International Version
(©2011)
God exalted him to his own right
hand as Prince and Savior that he
might bring Israel to repentance
and forgive their sins.

God appointed and chose his son as saviour just like he did with EHUD.....



You guys read every scripture with the trinity lens.....

Bidam: who is the source of life?

The Father....

Bidam: ofcos Jesus was humble. is your wife not part of your body? are you superior to your wife?

Is Jesus superior to you??.....

Bidam: i said earlier for the purpose of salvation..why rephrase your question instead of debunking my statements.

I have answered ya question before...

Bidam: there is no superiority in the Godhead.

Put on your thinking caps if you've lost them and read 1 corinthians 11:3 and 1 corinthians 15:24-28 again....

Blind bat....

And do you know what God head is??.....

Always learning but never gaining knowledge...

Bidam: benalvino was right and you are wrong. you have forgotten the fact that i mentioned Jesus playing roles. doesn't mean that is what He is

Please did Jesus come to do his will??...

Roles my foot....who's will was Jesus doing?? His or the Fathers??...

Bidam: You ARE THINKING IN TERMS OF WHO IS OLDER OR GREATER AND I TOLD YOU IT IS NOT SO.

It is..it has to do with everything....every damn thing....

The reason for Jesus' life and existence stems from the Father

Bidam: IT is not heresy or twisting but the truth.

Lol...just a scripture where the expression GOD the son is mentioned??....just a scripture and I'll give you all the money I have in this world.....

Bidam: This truth will one day set you free. i have done my part o

Lol.....get away with your immortality of the soul gibberish...

Bidam: God is Spirit and is different from you. If God sends His word, who are you a dust to question Him?

God sent a different person from himself and not the literal words coming out of his mouth.....

I'm using your analogy on you and now you say the case should be different when its about GOD...

Bidam: Do you know how cells are being reproduced? what do you understand by the Parent cell? i believe you did a little biology in skool.

Ahhh..one should wonder why co-equals should be Father and son and not identical twin brothers.......

Bidam: The father's will.

I thought he came fully of his own volition....not because he was also authorized by his superior to come....

Bidam: i don't get your point here.

Just answer....why are we subject to Jesus.....

benalvino: it Shows that the father an Jesus is one GOD... if you don't know Jesus you don't know the father... you cant separate them... like trying to know the father alone... at the end of everything they will be worshipped. for now Jesus is doing his job.

I can seperate Jesus from the Father just as you can seperate Jesus from me......

And please tell me how one can know about Jesus except his servants whom he has sent talk about him??.......

Why do you think the apostles preached in the first place??....

I no go even do as if I see the bolded....
We are doing the job Jesus gave us just as Jesus obediently did his Fathers job....

benalvino: remember the father says there is only one savior and he is the savior(redeemer)... yet Jesus is the savior(redeemer) are there 2 saviors? nope only one...
God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them...

This question is like asking if there are 2 Jesus' even when we know people like Joshua answered Jesus....

My brother when you represent God you answer names which he gives you....

I gave an example which you avoided....

God has sent saviours earlier on in times past....they acted as saviours because the Father made the so....

See this..::::

Judges 3:15
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Then the people of Israel cried out to the
LORD for help. The LORD sent a savior to
rescue them. It was Ehud, a left-handed man
from the tribe of Benjamin. (Ehud was the son
of Gera.) The people sent him with their tax
payment to King Eglon of Moab.
_____________________________


God raised up EHUD to become saviour to his people...how does that negate the Fact that the Father remains the ultimate saviour who works out the means of salvation for his people??......

Now see Jesus' case here....


1 john 4:14
New Living Translation (©2007)
Furthermore, we have seen with our own eyes
and now testify that the Father sent his Son
to be the Savior of the world.
___________________________


God initiates the means of salvation,then he sends his representatives who are termed as saviours.....

benalvino: the truth is the Word was GOD and it became flesh and dwell amongst us...

And as we all know this word of God is not the Father....simple and easy...

benalvino: me and you will be one... but Christ still says he is one exclusively with the father...
22. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one.

What are you saying??......

And did you not read the rest verses were it says we are one with Christ??......there is no exclusive oneness here.....the oneness involves every body who obeys God the Father.......

benalvino: so the only way you can get to the father is one with Jesus... God led us to him self... Jesus is the Word of God... again the father his reconciling with us through his word... God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them

I agree that Christ was sent by the Father and I appreciate the Father for such wonderful provision.........

I'm happy that I can go to the Father thru his appointed high priest......

No shakings....

benalvino: the father is greater than the son... but they are one... before the world begin they are of same nature of which jesus drop for our sake... now he is man in heaven.

And till forever more the Father would be greater.......

I hope you know before Christ came to the earth he was learning from his Father ??......

benalvino: I am not confuse period.. our relationship starts from Jesus before the father accepts us. you cannot go to him direct simple...

Is that not why the Father is the one GOD I recognize??......

Is that not why??.......

benalvino: and you are arguing different thing... why are we one with Jesus why cant we just be one with the father?
you see my point? why do you think Jesus became man?

I know why Jesus came to the earth...my issue here is you trying to miscontrue the clear truth of oneness.....

That is why I am always reminding you that we are part of that oneness.....

benalvino: no one is going through 2nd... your relationship with God is based on Jesus.. you cant be one with GOD but you are one with Jesus... Jesus is one with GOD. only when you are one with Jesus you can be accepted by the father... simple as that.

Didn't you read those verses that we would be in God the Father and in Jesus??......


John 17:21


21 that all of them may be
one, Father, just as you are in me and I
am in
you. May they also be in us so that the
world
may believe that you have sent me.


Jesus has led us to the one true God the Father,and we are now one with the Father......

The oneness continues.......

At the end of the day none of us,not even Jesus is equal with God the Father from whom all the glory comes from...........

benalvino: I didn't... like I said the word have different meaning... its not about how they twist English to mean something else whereas it is about how they translate a particular word. so KJV is not actually wrong. worship is worship there is not a single way you can differentiate it. David got the civil Homage.

Ahh I see......

Now its how it is translated right??....

Now who told you that proskneo in hebrews 1:6 must be translated as worship??......

Who??.....

Even when you know bowing down,prostrating oneself,adore all are words stemming from "proskneo".......

benalvino: meh...
now you agree that he is One with the father? the thing is Jesus never calls his father our father. he says my Father and your father... our relationship with the father is by adoption. that is why Jesus is the everlasting father.

You are so damn confused...confused to the core......

Jesus calling our Father his Father is enough to show you that we and Jesus all have the same Father and stem from the same one GOD.....

And if you had remembered I gave an explanation as to why Jesus would be called eternal Father but you and your ilks were ruNning around saying he is Yahweh and now you are on an adoption spree...remember when I called Jesus a surrogate Father because of the children his Father gave to him??.

I quoted hebrews 1:9-13 to prove that....



And those scriptures I quoted shows and explains exactly how Jesus is one with the Father,just exactly the way we are one with Jesus......

benalvino: Now do you believe Jesus and the Father are one both of them are same in nature they are the ONE GOD. john 1:1 except you want to render it as a god(idol)
that unity is found in genesis where God pluralize him self.

Have you blinded your eyes to the fact that we are exactly one with Jesus just as he is one with the Father....I quoted those scriptures for you to think and not to revert back to trinity..but behold you are confused......and it has been confirmed that we are all part of that pluraluralized formular(since you have decided to stubbornly) ........we are one with GOD and Jesus......

Think!!!! Think!!!!

benalvino: we have to go through the mediator. we have to be one unity with the son when we are in unity with him then we are in unity with the father... cause the father and him are one.

And we are one with Jesus.....

When you go round this circle you would come to realize what we've been saying all along......

I'm happy you know Jesus is the one mediator between God and man and not the same God he Is a go-between for......

benalvino: “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

Please read the next verses and find out who made this statement.....

benalvino: all the contradiction.

Na you abandon your dear Beloved KJV for 1 chronicles 29:20...

Learn to differentiate worships........

I have learnt that very well...that is why I know how worship should be rendered when its refered to Jesus...because I am 100 percent sure Jesus isn't the Father.....

Thank you....