₦airaland Forum

benalvino: now david was not worshipped abi? when I told you he was given civil homage you still insist he was worshipped with GOD... now you don change mouth... this is double standard. if you know he was not worshipped you wont be using it to back up your self... the father say same way you honor him is same way you will honor the son... Jesus say if you don't honor him you don't honor the father... this is why Jesus is GOD... that oneness with God is always there... God is the Good shepherd and he is the Good shepherd too...

Jesus said God is in him and he is in GOD... they want to kill him for making him self equal with the father... now see this verse

2Cor. 5:19 …God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them….
^^^ goes with the verse bellow...
Titus 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus

John 20:28 Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word ["logos"=Jesus], and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

Col. 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God….

Heb. 2:14 Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same….

if you have seen me you have seen the father...

John 14:8-11

Philip said to Jesus, "Lord, show us the Father. That is all we need."
Jesus answered, "Philip, I have been with you for a long time. So you should know me(he is telling them they are seeing the father). The person that has seen me has seen the Father too(Exact representation of the father). So why do you say, 'Show us the Father'? Do you truly believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me(Claiming he is one with the father)? The things I have told you don't come from me. The Father lives in me, and he is doing his own work(See why Jesus is the word that became flesh?). Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me. Or believe because of the miracles I have done.

_______________________________
John 17;20-26


20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray
also for those who will believe in me through
their message, 21 that all of them may be
one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in
you. May they also be in us so that the world
may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have
given them the glory that you gave me, that
they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them
and you in me—so that they may be brought to
complete unity. Then the world will know that
you sent me and have loved them even as you
have loved me.
24 “Father, I want those you have given me to
be with me where I am, and to see my glory,
the glory you have given me because you loved
me before the creation of the world.
25 “Righteous Father, though the world does
not know you, I know you, and they know that
you have sent me. 26 I have made you[e]
known to them, and will continue to make you
known in order that the love you have for me
may be in them and that I myself may be in
them.


___________________________


Do you believe that if you are a true christian,if one has seen you one has seen Christ??......that is why when true christians are persecuted,it is Christ that is been persecuted.....

Do you believe you and Christ are ONE

Those verses up there should solve all your problems and mysteries..........

.......

benalvino: Jesus was worshipped David was wasn't worshipped and was never worshipped... simple as that. when the bible talks about Jesus it says worship in David it says homage and you guys change Jesus worship to obeisance.

You don tire to open KJV abi??......



Na you sabi......

I don open other renderings wey allign with phillipians 2:8-10.....adore and bow down.......


Like I said I know my God...the angels bowing down to the one God who is siTted on the throne and the lamb know who the one God is...Jesus himself knows who is his God......

So I leave you with your thread......

benalvino: you are not... fact is you are saying they worshipped david but deny Christ instead you say the do obeisance... that's not good.

I am saying neither david nor Jesus recieves/recieved equal worship with Yahweh.....

Get the point!!!!!......

All the honour and adoration david,all isrealite kings and Jesus received are to the glory of God the Father.....

I know who my God is and it isn't Jesus,rather it is the Father..........

And benalvino I'm sticking to consistency.....

You do the same.....

benalvino: [b]First of all, 1 Chron. 29:20 obviously cannot mean that David was worshiped equally with God. This would be blasphemy you know but because of argument sake you don lock up... shachah means different things it is best to translate the Hebrew word shachah as "pay homage" or "bow down," as is attested to by other translations.

•"Then David said to all the assembly, "Now bless the Lord your God." And all the assembly blessed the Lord, the God of their fathers, and bowed low and did homage to the Lord and to the king," (NASB).
•"Then David said to the whole assembly, "Praise the LORD your God." So they all praised the LORD, the God of their fathers; they bowed low and fell prostrate before the LORD and the king," (NIV).
•"Then David said to all the assembly, "Now bless the Lord your God." So all the assembly blessed the Lord God of their fathers, and bowed their heads and prostrated themselves before the Lord and the king," (NKJV).
•"Then David said to all the assembly, "Bless the Lord your God." And all the assembly blessed the Lord, the God of their fathers, and bowed their heads and paid homage to the Lord and to the king," (ESV).

consistent with Hebrew dictionaries which tell us that the word shachah can mean worship, bow down, obeisance, reverence, fall down, crouch, prostrate oneself, This would easily demonstrate that David was not being worshiped. Instead, homage was being paid to him as was also being paid to God -- though, of course, there is no confusion about who is God and who is not. As if that weren't enough, the ijawkid and his JW own New World Translation translates the Hebrew word shachah in 1 Chron. 29:20 as "prostrate."

so even your watchtower knows that david is not being worshipped you are just bringing this up for argument sake.


"And David went on to say to all the congregation: "Bless, now, Jehovah YOUR God." And all the congregation proceeded to bless Jehovah the God of their forefathers and bow low and prostrate themselves to Jehovah and to the king," (NWT).

Therefore, the Jehovah's Witnesses own bible recognizes that King David, though greatly revered by the people, was not worshipped. Instead, both God and David were revered by the people by prostration, not worship.
[/b]

stick to your doctrine o...

You are not even getting the point......

I know david was not worshipped as if he was equal to GOD.....

We have always known how to translate both the greek and hebrew words which worship is coined from......

It is you that is having serious understanding problems.......

It was very easy for you to exclude the KJV this time in 1 chronicles 29:20......

Abi??....

Now if I open other renditions to show you that Jesus wasn't actually worshipped from all the list of scriptures you quoted would you accept it....??...

And as regards david.....the crowd bowed down before david and Yahweh simultaneously.....but deep down in the hearts of those isrealites they do know who is there GOD......don't they??.......

now let me just quote 2 or 3 renderings of hebrews 1:6 that shows Jesus wasn't worship as though he were the same with the Father who recieves all glory and worship....
Hebrews 1:6

Young's Literal Translation
and when again He may bring in the
first-born to the world, He saith,
'And let them bow before him --


Douay-Rheims Bible
And again, when he bringeth in the
first begotten into the world, he
saith: And let all the angels of God
adore him.



Now do these verses that use adore and bow down contradict phillipians 2:8-10 where it says all knees would bow down to Jesus to the glory of God the Father??......


Uh??.......

benalvino: Now from your belief the scriptures have lied?

Not my belief.......I want you to analyze your views as to the word worship which you point to......

Did both david and Yahweh receive just civil homage simultaneously??.....

Remember I'm projecting davids case because he was Gods annointed......

benalvino: haha... you cannot run from that you know the truth. david was given civil homage. you they ask me whi the angels think wetin concern me with what they think?

He says david was given civil homage....God nkor??......

or did the Yahweh and david both receive civil homage??....

The isrealites bowed and worshipped Yahweh and the king simultaneously.....

Read that verse well.......

benalvino: I don't care about the rev 19 amd talking about 1:8

Revelation 19 is confirming who the almighty God is...consistency bro...consistency.....

The whole of revelation talks about just one almighty God who sits on the throne and who exalted Jesus(The lamb) to sit with him...

That is why you here the one(GOD) sitted on the throne and the Lamb.....

That is why the opening part of revelation shows who the almighty God is(the one whom Jesus recieves revelation from).....

That is why in revelation 1:5-6 and revelation 3:12 Jesus calls this one sitted on the throne MY GOD......

Learn to see the difference rather than cause chaos.......

benalvino: when he says he is the son of GOD them wanted to kill him... that he is making him self equal to GOD... now if he goes on telling people to worship him they will kill him. he came to show the people to GOD so he did the right thing... all the people that worship him he didn't correct them. as a man angels worship him. lets go to revelations

If we compare Revelation 4 with chapter 5, what do we learn about the object of our worship?

Revelation 4:11 “You are worthy, Jehovah, even our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because of your will they existed and were created.”


Revelation 5:11-14 “And I saw, and I heard a voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders, and the number of them was myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice: ‘The Lamb that was slaughtered is worthy to receive the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing.’ And every creature that is in heaven and on earth and underneath the earth and on the sea, and all the things in them, I heard saying: ‘To the One sitting on the throne and to the Lamb be the blessing and the honor and the glory and the might forever and ever’ And the four living creatures went saying: ‘Amen!’ and the elders fell down and worshiped.”

1) In Revelation 4:11, Jehovah is said to be worthy of receiving glory, honor and power. By comparing this to Revelation 5:12, we see that Jesus is worthy to receive not only glory, honor and power, but riches, wisdom, strength and blessing.

2) Revelation 5:13 goes on to say that every creature in heaven, on earth, under the earth and on the sea gives worship to the One sitting on the throne and to the lamb. If every creature in existence is worshipping, this must mean that Jesus is not a creature. So, the only other option left is that Jesus is the Creator who is certainly worthy to receive all worship.

3) Revelation 5:13-14 make it obvious that the One sitting on the throne and the Lamb are both given equal worship by the heavenly occupants.

What does all this conclude about whether or not worshipping Jesus is appropriate? The testimony of the New Testament is clear: Jesus accepted worship. Obviously, this says a whole lot about His identity. If Jesus is not equal to the Father, like the Watchtower teaches, then He is guilty of blasphemy in the first degree. But, if He is God manifested in the flesh, He then rightly is laudable of all our praise and worship. No wonder why Jesus said, “ .... in order that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He that does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him”. (John 5:23)

the question is, is Jesus guilty of blasphemy?

And I had asked you before...when the crowd of isrealites bowed down and worshipped Yahweh and king david his annointed king did they in there hearts give equal worship to Yahweh and david??......



Please answer the above question...

When the angels and all the living creatures bow down before the 1 God who is sitted on the throne and the lamb who has been exalted by that one God,do you think in the hearts of those creatures they don't know who the one God and who there GOD is??........

Davids example is so perfect for this worship issue......

Do you think if Gods appointed king is not honoured you can honour God who did the appointing??.....

Now I ask you again...

Who do you think the angels think is there GOD??...

The Father or Jesus??

And let me make it clear that Jesus is not the almighty God mentioned in revelation 1:8.....

See Jesus here threading the winepress and anger of God the almighty(different from Jesus)


Revelation 19:13-15

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped
in blood: and his name is called The Word of
God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven
followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine
linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword,
that with it he should smite the nations: and he
shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he
treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and
wrath of Almighty God.


That is Jesus doing the biddings of God the almighty(The Father)......

After all that then he would be made subject for all eternity to this almighty GOD.....

true2god: Vry shameless excuse indeed. The other time Ijawkid said 'Jesus is mighty God and not the Almighty God) and now he said 'Jesus christ is the 1st and the last and not Alpha and Omega'. I believe this pple are polished to defend lies at all cost.

And yes Jesus isn't the almighty God......

Read my lips if you can see it......

Revelation 1:1 already has told you guys that....

benalvino: learn English... Jesus was made. who made him that way? in phil 2:5-11 it says he made him self.

He humbled himself and the Father also made him lower than the angels by given him a body to stay on earth and do Gods will(the Fathers will)....

Jesus was humble and obedient to one who has authority over him.....

benalvino: Matthew 2:2 “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”

Matthew 2:11 “And when they had come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary His mother, and fell down and worshiped Him.”

Matthew 14:33 “Then those who were in the boat came and worshiped Him, saying, Truly you are the Son of God.”

Matthew 28:9 “And as they went to tell His disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, Rejoice! And they came and held Him by the feet and worshiped Him.”

Matthew 28:17 “And when they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted.”

John 9:38 “Then he said, ‘Lord, I believe!’ And he worshiped Him.”

Hebrews 1:6 “But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, “Let all the angels of God worship Him

Since you can't differentiate between the contexts of the word worship,can you now agree david was worshipped...??...do you agree??

Because I aint biased...if Jesus isn't the Father then he isn't my God and so I know. What it means when worship is given to persons other than the Father .....


When I see where it is written that people worshipped Jesus I know what it means....


And you forgot to quote other scriptures were earthly kings were worshipped....

This is even Jesus' illustration


Matthew 18:26

King James Bible (Cambridge
Ed.)
The servant therefore fell down,
and worshipped him, saying, Lord,
have patience with me, and I will
pay thee all.


Until you know how to use worship in the right way and know how to apply it to persons other than the Father you would remain confused for all eternity until Jesus comes in the end to tell you that The Father is his GOD.....

benalvino: Matthew 2:2 “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”

Matthew 2:11 “And when they had come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary His mother, and fell down and worshiped Him.”

Matthew 14:33 “Then those who were in the boat came and worshiped Him, saying, Truly you are the Son of God.”

Matthew 28:9 “And as they went to tell His disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, Rejoice! And they came and held Him by the feet and worshiped Him.”

Matthew 28:17 “And when they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted.”

John 9:38 “Then he said, ‘Lord, I believe!’ And he worshiped Him.”

Hebrews 1:6 “But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, “Let all the angels of God worship Him

Since you can't differentiate between the contexts of the word worship,can you now agree david was worshipped...??...do you agree??

Because I aint biased...if Jesus isn't the Father then he isn't my God and so I know. What it means when worship is given to persons other than the Father .....


When I see where it is written that people worshipped Jesus I know what it means....


And you forgot to quote other scriptures were earthly kings were worshipped....

This is even Jesus' illustration


Matthew 18:26

King James Bible (Cambridge
Ed.)
The servant therefore fell down,
and worshipped him, saying, Lord,
have patience with me, and I will
pay thee all.


Until you know how to use worship in the right way and know how to apply it to persons other than the Father you would remain confused for all eternity until Jesus comes in the end to tell you that The Father is his GOD.....

true2god: U r really confusing urself with the 1st statement u made and not me. 'Jesus called himself the 1st and the last...and not alpha and omega'.

By ur own submission angel michael is the 1st and the last (since u were meant to believe that angel michael=Jesus) and not the alpha and the omega. Thats serios.

I tink u should read the Bible ursef and stop depending on magazines that interprete the Bible with great bias in mind.

Lol.....and you baffle me again....

You ran with your shoes from the angel micheal thread all to be talking about it here.......

Jesus is first and last for a reason......have you for once looked at revelation to see why he is tagged first and last or you just feel first and last is a title that is exclusive to God??.....

true2god: The challenge with JW is trying by all means to ensure that the deitiship of christ is erased frm the Bible even wen its written there, and thats the purpose the NWT is serving. The NWT is the only translation that renderd 'worship' wen it referd to Jesus as 'paying obeisance', it is the only translation that read Jesus response 'before Abraham I AM' to 'before Abraham i hav been'. Thats where their complication comes.

So many Bible verses specified christ as worthy of worship, worthy to receving glory and honour, power to forgive sins etc.

Learn to see what it means when one is given authority to do something or act with someone else's authority....

John 20:21-23

21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As
the Father has sent me, I am sending you.”
22 And with that he breathed on them and
said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you
forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven;
if you do not forgive them, they are not
forgiven.”
_____________________________

Jesus can forgive sins because his Father gave him the authority to,so also can the disciples of Jesus(we).........

At least today you know that with the authority Jesus has given us just as he was given authority from his Father we can forgive sins......don't be shocked!!!!!

That does not in any way make all of us GOD the Father or equal to Him or equal to Jesus whom the Father sent.........

And it should interest you to know that the glory the Father gave to Jesus ,Jesus gave us that glory in return......

At the end of the day we would all have to acknowledge the Father as the supreme and most high over Jesus and all of us....

This is why I say emphatically that I give exclusive worship to the Father....because he is the one GOD ....

benalvino: He called him self alpha and omega more than once... The first an last you talk about is cooked up excuse to deny the deity of Jesus

Naaaa........

First and last is what was clinged to Him and that was attched to his death and ressurection.....

You can deify Jesus for all I care,the one God is the Father whom Jesus himself worshipped....

benalvino: I dont care how you worship but... If he is not One with the father God then you will be worshipping an idol simple as that... Revelation shows he is worshipped

He was even worshipped as a man

And scriptures just showed david was worshipped along with Yahweh.....

The day you differentiate the kinds of worship that is the day you would not be struggling this much.....

Hear Jesus' words...

John 4:22-24

22 You Samaritans worship what
you do not know; we worship(Jesus inclusive) what we do know,
for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time
is coming and has now come when the true
worshipers will worship the Father in the
Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of
worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit,
and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit
and in truth.
_____________________________

That God Jesus calls "MY GOD" is whom I give the utmost and exclusive worship to......


And mind you when you say Jesus is one with the Father it is exactly the way we are one with Jesus....

benalvino: But there can be 2 king of kings but not 2 alpha and omega why did Jesus call him self that?

And I insist Jesus called himself first and last and the reasons where given......and not alpha and omega....

And why should you think there can be 2 king of kings??.....isn't it suppose to be an exclusive title to Jesus??......

benalvino: 2 alpha and omega?

That's the confusion u put up not me......



If you have decided to wallow in that confusion then you can as well agree with the 2 king of kings we have in the scriptures.......

benalvino: You should worship him...

worship him in what sense??as my God which is the Father??.....

benalvino: they don't even pray through Jesus or to Jesus... they saw Jesus as an ordinary god... but Jesus is calling him self first and last beginning and end alpha and omega. they are the only ones who translate him as a god then later they translate as Mighty God... see as they jump back to big letter G? cause it didn't say almighty there... that shows you how their doctrine is belittling Jesus... when he claim to be the I am they change it to I have been... my point is why do they have problem when Jesus claim to be GOD?

Which GOD??.....

He isn't the Father.....

So case closed....

The one God I recognize is the Father,the God of Jesus..........

true2god: Ur response sounds very cunny and diplomatic, u r not straight-forward with ur response. I worship God (the father) and i worship the son (Jesus). Is it ok by ur own doctrine and belief?

Cunny??.......

I just said I adore and honour Christ the appointed and annointed king,high priest and judge of GOD...........

What more do you want??.......

true2god: @ Ijawkid, can Jesus be worshipped?

1 chronicles 29:20

King James Bible (Cambridge
Ed.)
And David said to all the
congregation, Now bless the LORD
your God. And all the congregation
blessed the LORD God of their
fathers, and bowed down their
heads, and worshipped the LORD,
and the king.
_____________________________
Philippians 2:9-11

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him,
and given him a name which is above every
name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee
should bow, of things in heaven, and things in
earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that
Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the
Father.

______________________________

Like benalvino said it depends on what you define worship to be......

I know the God I give exlusive devotion to......

I revere/adore and honour Jesus as Gods appointed king,judge,high priest......

Thank you....

Bidam: NO.

Why??...why is Jesus still obeying his Father in heaven??....why are all of us including Jesus obeying this one Father over all??....

Bidam: So who sent Jesus if it wasn't the Father?

Your colleauge said its only because Jesus was humble that's why he came to the earth not also because he was obeying a superior.......

Bidam: because you don't know scriptures you will keep on dancing on your opinion.

Oh yes....why would he even think of equality with GOd when he knew God was greater than him...

Bidam: satan was an angel. Jesus was never an angel. God created satan through Jesus allow this truth to sink into ur muddled brain

I know through Jesus satan was created....I'm on the fact of one who is loyal to his superior.....Jesus displayed obedience while satan didn't .......they both had the free will to be subservient to the Father or not....

Bidam: Jesus did not come of his own
volition..i wonder where you got that idea from. you are stepping into dangerous terrain if you keep on arguing what your lil brain can't comprehend..timely warning sha!!

Please talk to benalvino who insists it is only because Jesus was humble that's why he came to the earth....

Bidam: Amen to the scripture you quoted. God the father is always that source of light..i keep on telling you but you refuse to listen.

Then why argue Jesus is equal with the Father,when you know the Father is his(Jesus) source??....

Or you guys just love running around...

Bidam: He wasn't reffered. He is the first and the last.

In what respect??...

Bidam: servant, prophet, priest are all roles played by Jesus. He is God the Son.

He is the son of God not God the son...stop the twistings and heresy....smh!!!....

Bidam: let's make an example that God is the source which can be likened to the human soul or mind and The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit also likened to the spirit in a man.Jesus is God's WORD(became flesh) and was sent by that Source. as a human being do you send your soul on errands or your body?
...

Your use of human soul and spirit is complete rubbish.....you do know ya analogy is one I reject with utmost displeasure



I don't send my soul on errand I send someone who is distinct from me on errands....and may I re-iterate that Jesus isn't the literal words coming out of Yahwehs mouth....smh!!!....

Bidam: foolish reasoning..deal with my example above.

Lol...how come one is Father and the other son...why not brothers so that we can confirm there co-equality..

Bidam: there is only one WILL.

And that will is who's will??...please be succinct....who's will??...

Bidam: Jesus is subject to the Father becos He came from the Father. amen.

Only??....why are we subject to Jesus??.....

benalvino: Last time I check U did not create anything.

The last time I checked Jesus was the first of Gods creation and still is........

That is why God is his God and head over him......

Bidam: you pple love to quote this scripture without even understanding what the scripture is actually saying. Jesus is not inferior to Jehovah; They are equal. But for the purpose of salvation, He submitted Himself to a position in which He could fulfill the requirements of salvation and the scripture you quoted explained it very well in the sense that a woman isn't any less than her husband, they are equal before God; however, for God's purposes, it is her position to submit.

Do you realize that we are not inferior to Jesus??...

Do you agree you are equal with Jesus since you have worn the trinitarian lens to read 1 corinthians 11:3??....

But I would make this one thing clear....

A woman is not equal to a man....

I want you guys to open 1 corinthians 11 and read it all through and see that a man is greater than a woman by all standards....

benalvino: I didn't finally say it is what U dont get from the get go... Countless we have should told you that Jesus is the 2 person in the trinity... The example I gave is based on office and nature and you misunderstood the whole point and start talking about election which is not the point.

So who made Yahwehs office higher than that of Jesus??....how did come about that Yahwehs office is greater than that of Jesus??....who made appointments...who arranged that headship arrangement??.....

What I see here is one who does not even understand the trinity he believes in...

benalvino: You acknowledge Obama is greater for now but in the future he won't which backs of my claim of the office... Because he is the very nature of me he is not better.

Would the Father ever change his office??....obama would stop being president in the next 3 yrs,...would Yahweh stop being the head of Jesus anytime soon??....

And who tells you obama isn't better than you??....he is older than you...has got more experience than you...he is more knowledgeable than you...he existed before you...he has authority over you...he is more powerful than you......

How can you say obama is not by far better than you??.....

benalvino: That's a simple example that you can't understand. Smh

What example??...an example that squashes your doctrine to the ground...

benalvino: Jesus was in the very nature of God... You call you self god aree you in same Nature as the father? Can you create? If not you just an idol there is only one God.

Amongst Gods there are ranks bro....

I must not be able to create to be called GOD by GOD himself....

All those called Gods do not have equal abilities and strenght........



Like I said earlier which none of you could dispute,there is not a single thing Jesus can do or what ever knowledge or power he possesses that wasn't given to him by the Father.......I lie??...

benalvino: All 3 have their role in saving man the father didn't do it alone Jesus didn't do it alone the holy spirit didn't do it alone they all have their work to do...

But they all did the Fathers will..right or wrong??....

They all coincidentally acceded to the Fathers authority for some bizzare
reasons??.......

Are we not all playing a role in Gods purpose as well......??.

Are we not??...how does that make us equal with our God and Father??..

benalvino: The bolder point make real sense unless you are holden your mind to comprehend it... Show me a verse where it states the father is better than Jesus in God's form? Infact when he says he is the son of God he is claiming same nature and equal to God that is why they wanted to kill him.

Cheiii.......I am finished.....

You are just so pathetic....

Please if Jesus is as good as his Father what is he receiving revelations from,from the Father for??.....

What is he doing the Fathers bidding for??...why is the Father still his GOD...why is Jesus still doing his Fathers will In heaven??....why??......why is he the high priest of God in heaven acting as a go-between between God and man if he is as good as his GOD??

Have you been smoking ciggerates recently or you just want to be blind......

You are asking how one who elevated another person is better than the person he elevated and gave authority??.....

You are sick...go to the hospital??...

benalvino: I know one God and you people know one God and one idol since you make Jesus idol and we will pray or Go to God through an idol... Didn't he warn people not to worship him through idol or image? What about you shall not go to any other god for salvation yet U go to another god an angel for that matter for salvation.

The Father sent his son and appointed him as saviour to rescue his people...Yahweh has not done anything wrong by sending a represntative to do that......he has always done that to save his people......

Yahweh has always raised prophets,saviours and redeemers to do his bidding.....

I know one GOD and he is the Father alone...

You can keep worshipping your triune triology GODs........

And please where did you see me worship The Father through an image??...

Jesus as high priest takes my prayers and offerings to the Father....

The isrealites who had earthly high priests with them did not make them there idols...these high priests only were mediators between God and the people.....

Jesus is the new high priest of God...so I have every right to pass through him to get to the one GOD the Father.....

benalvino: Could you translate the verse you said never said that? Yes the father is greater than the son but equal in nature... That is the simple truth... just like Obama is greater than you because of his office but he is not better than you cause you are him are of the same nature.

Obama was voted in by people to be the president of united states.......


....and you said obama is not better than any american because he is the same nature with them...meaning Yahweh is not better than Jesus.......

I am dissappointed in you for the bolded statement.......you have believed in the trinity so tey you don rub Yahweh for mud.....smh!!!!!......

This Yahweh that is supplying Jesus with revelations in heaven.......I can't believe you would make this degrading statement....



Who voted Yahweh the Father to be greater than Jesus and to even be the GOD and Father of Jesus??...who??......


I believe na all of us go for election go do the voting............

Just stick to your false stance that the Father and Jesus are co-equal to the core and that not even the Father is by anymeans greater than the son by an inch and stop bending truth to fit into lies..........

My problem is if you can finally say Yahweh is greater than Jesus why argue with Jesus in the first place when He made it clear that his Father is greater than he is...??...why?....it means you argued for nothing all to still agree with Jesus...are u just confused or what??


Obama can be your superior for now but won't in the future when a new president is elected........

God would be and has been Jesus' superior from times past and for all eternity.......

Jesus would be subject to Yahweh forever and ever and ever and ever........

Maybe you can explain which persons carried out this everlasting election......

You are just a funny trinitarian.............

benalvino: you done block your head again... Jesus the indirectly tell am him be GOD... cant you read what I showed you? can you accuse Jesus of sin? is he bad in anyway? it is even hard for him to claim to be the messiah... when he claim to be the son of GOD them wan kill am. he says he is one with GOD them wan kill am...

how do you know he is talking about the father? o now not everything is GOD abi? now it is the father alone... contradiction just full your side. by you everyone na GOD mentality... jesus didn't say only the father he says only GOD is good...

Has there been anytime Jesus talked about the one GOD that it wasn't the Father alone??.....

You want to dribble round that too??......

And for your info Jesus claimed to be the messiah.......

And Jesus was not indirectly telling him he was the one GOD.....

Why ona dey lie like this?....

Soon you would say when Jesus said only the Father knew the day and the hour Jesus was indirectly saying he was the Father........

I don tire for ona......

deSika: my friend you are trying hard, but am sorry
the person speaking says he is sent its not related to your solomon story

the speaker says he is sent by Yahweh, yet in another place he calls himself Yahweh.

in your solomon story, solomon is just repeated. but in the other one
the person claims two things with hiss own mouth. that he is Yahweh and that he is sent by Lord Yahweh

dooes that help you

Please read the solomon account and confess if the name solomon was just being repeated.........

There says solomon summoned persons to king solomon......

Are your eyes filled with alomo bitters??


Let me school you......

read the 2 preceding verses before verse 16 of isaiah 48

......
14-15
14 All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear ;
which among them hath declared these
things?
The LORD hath loved him: he will do his
pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on
the
Chaldeans. 15 I, even I, have spoken ; yea, I
have called him: I have brought him, and he
shall make his way prosperous .


Please compare isaiah 41:2, 44:28,
45:1,13 ,46:11 and see with your blind folded eyes that the person been sent and annointed by Yahweh is cyrus......


Isaiah 45:1

1 "This is what the LORD says to his anointed,
to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of to
subdue nations before him and to strip kings
of their armor, to open doors before him so
that gates will not be shut:

13 I will raise
up Cyrus in my righteousness: I will make all
his ways straight. He will rebuild my city and
set my exiles free, but not for a price or
reward, says the LORD Almighty


__________________________

You don belleful??........

benalvino: Why do you call me Good? only God is good... Jesus is good and he didn't claim he wasn't good he is asking why you call me good.
he is trying to tell the man who he is... if you call me Good you are calling me GOD.
John 10:11 wherein Jesus declares Himself to be “the good shepherd.” Similarly in John 8:46, Jesus asks, “Can any of you prove me guilty of sin?” Of course the answer is “no.” Jesus was “without sin” (Hebrews 4:15), holy and undefiled (Hebrews 7:26), the only One who “knew no sin” (2 Corinthians 5:21).

Please why would Jesus ask that question in the first place?.....why did he ask that thought provoking question??.......

The bolded is a broad day lie my bro...deep down you know.....

How can you guys read this clear retort/rebuke by Jesus and play around it??...

New American Standard Bible
(©1995)
And Jesus said to him, "Why do
you call Me good? No one is good
except God alone.

King James Bible (Cambridge
Ed.)
And Jesus said unto him, Why
callest thou me good? there is
none good but one, that is, God.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
(©2009)
"Why do you call Me good?" Jesus
asked him. "No one is good but
One--God.


So I ask you.....

Who is the one GOD which Jesus was talking about...??.....the trinity or the Father alone??......

And mind you the rest scriptures you quoted do not go against my comment......

I said Jesus isn't all GOOD,only the Father is........