₦airaland Forum

deSika: i just like this. Its just straight to the point

After making himself nothing he then stripped away his senses and ended up a liar...its wonderful how you guys team up to lie for Jesus...........

Do you guys realize that Jesus isn't Jesus at the end of the day??.......

since being in flesh impaired Jesus' thoughts and knowledge then I think we should discard all Jesus said from the scriptures......

Seriously did Jesus really come from heaven or he was infact impersonated by one of these trinitarians.......

deSika: the father is one God, does not remove the fact that the son is one God, the Spirit is one God. In the end you have one God.

Please can you support the incohorent jargons you just wrote with the scriptures??.......

Smh!!!!......

Are you guys just bent on been a nuisance or are you really seeking for the truth.....

Please open 1 corinthians 8:6 or ephesians 4:6 and grow some sense....

.......

deSika: ehen, if you can call anything God can you now call Jesus God?

Lol....it won't make any difference...I would have to be calling everybody GOD...i am suppose to be calling you GOD too.......

When ever I call on GOD it is the Father......

deSika: nna, answer my question, i asked you first. where and how did the father give Jesus the ability to create. if you cant answer, then pls own up to the fact that you are adding to the scriptures, that puts you in a dangerous position men,

Your question was very silly...it would be like asking me when God gave us the ability to reason....

There is no ability anyone posseses that did not come from the Father...not one of Jesus' ability or skill that he posseses that wasn't given to him...

deSika: why do you keep dodging phil 2:6 in the form of God,....equal to God

the image of goat is it a chicken. when you look in the mirror, do you see desika as yur image or Ijawkid.

And is the image of a goat the same thing with the Goat??....

Do you even know what an image is??....

If there is an image it sure is not the original....

All your photocopied certificates are not the same with your original...

We are all images of the Father and I can't remember when last I was the Father...I can only resemble the Father to some degree but I cannot be the Father...

deSika: ahahaha uuch, whats the difference. Gods life is it not eternal. are you talking about a different form of life. see the lenght you can go, just because yu want to defend rubbish. stop confusing your self. LIFE IS LIFE. SPIRITUAL LIFE THAT IS.

Can you mention just one other person who the Father has granted to have life in himself except his son Jesus Christ??....

You are mistaking eternal life every human would gain with Jesus been granted to have life in himself......

There is a difference....

FOLYKAZE: Look at this reprobate negro! You need to take some weed before you understand the things of the lord. Let me go and call prophet obadiah....only he can break the symbolic

I too can......and I don't even need weed to.........

Logicboy03: Great insight...I never just understood the significance of the number

It seems you just didn't want to find out when you were a christian.....

benalvino: you they argue with your self... I told you when he is exalted to the right hand of God the last prophecy is complete that time he will get back all the power and authority. for now you are arguing with your self.

Lol......who is giving him the authority and power??.....

You just dey talk exalt exalt...who is doing the exalting and giving??......

And is Jesus in his exalted stage independent to do what he likes??......

Has he stopped depending on GOD??...

That's my question......

666 isn't a literal number so to speak....its symbolic......

So I would gladly sleep in a hotel room with number 666....

benalvino: this is baseless... it is recorded that the father will... as human he cant do it him self I told u he depended on the father...

the memory talk is just dumb. no point talking about it

Has he stopped depending on the Father??......

Is he independent and can do what he likes or what the Father tells him to do??....

Please read revelations and tell me if Jesus still doesn't depend on the Father.......

Jesus made confessions of his being less than the Father right from his pre-existence and all you guys can do is say he flung who he was and came to the earth.....and then when he made clear cut statements you guys say his being in flesh impaired his statements.......

Now I ask you...is Christ not still doing Gods will in heaven or has he stopped depending on GOD the Father??......

benalvino: thank you for this verse... he was a man cause he dropped everything. lol how can you ask me if he forgets? what is even bringing memory? we are talking about his deity... you said his fathers deity dwells in him I said yes after he dropped his own so what's the point of memory? as a man he depends on his father isn't it what I said earlier before you quoted a verse that even supports me.

When the all the prophecy is complete he will be exalted back to the position he once was... him no drop him deity for nothing.

He dropped his memory too??.....

Memory means the knowledge of things he did before decsending??......

And who would exalt him back to the position he was ??,,,,and after the exultation would he stop depending on his God and Father??........

benalvino: when you say jesus was Michael what does it mean?

It means all of micheals activities fits Jesus perfectly......and that micheal isn't just a symbol of Jesus.....

Also Micheals activities as we know was all in heaven(the spirit realm)....



how can you say a king who did exist on earth is now just a symbol of Jesus Christ who would be doing his priestly job in heaven and that infact melchizedek is GOD........??....

benalvino: nope... he is jesus him self... only God can be the king of righteousness and that is who melchizedek is

Chei I don die.......

So melchizedek is Jesus himself??....Jesus was a symbol of himself??.......

So you are saying a true king like melchizedek never existed ??......

He fell from heaven and was high priest of GOD??......can GOD be the high priest of GOD??.....

Which God is God doing the go-between work for??......

benalvino: melchizedek is the symbol of Jesus

Meaning someone like melchizedek never existed but was just used to describe Jesus??....

The same we can say the copper snake never existed but can be used as a symbol to demonstrate when Jesus is hung on a stake??.....

And also someone like moses who also pictured the messiah never existed but was just a symbol??....

shdemidemi: Go and read about Melchizedek .. And how he came on the scene.

Abeg .......is melchizedek GOD??....a 4th God??......

Tell me you wey be the bobo for trinity......

true2god: I hope u hav not jettisoned the verses i quoted in my earlier reponse in order to hold on to 'the beginning of God creation' only. U need to compare scriptures with scriptures to be certain of wat u r saying.

Have you compared scriptures with scriptures ever in your life??....please can I allign scriptures that has countless times used the expression beginning of so that we can see what Jesus being the beginning of Gods creation means??....

true2god: Ok, let me ask u, since Jesus christ is angel Michael (according to JW), so the only thing God created is angel Michael and God used angel Michael to create all (other) things. Thats wat u believe and teach, and its false and unbiblical.

Lol......my question is why did you run away from the arch angel micheal thread??....why??.......

true2god: The challenge most of u guys have is trying to do away the divinity of Jesus and u guys end up mutilating the Bible in order to
achieve dat.

All we are trying to say is that Jesus isn't the Father who is the one GOD........don't you get it??....that's my aim on nairaland.....to fight against any one who dares to equate Jesus with his God and Father.....

true2god: Do me a favour by reading col 1:16 frm other translations, aside frm the NWT, and tell me wat that verse says. The JW official teaching forbids the divinity of Jesus, the reason for the adjustments in the NWT.

And the reason you're asking this question is because I am using the NWT to discuss with you??........

I want you guys to drop this NWT issue and let's attack the subject at hand.....

If I was using the NWT then you have a basis to be asking me this yeye questions.....

I am not even using it still your dragging me back........

Oya I no dey use the NWT for my discussion ona still dey grapple on straws.....

true2god: On Melchisedek, I told u there is no much information concerning him. But the Bible described him as 'having no beginning of days nor the end of life' and 'he is like the son of God (Jesus)'. The book of Hebrew also described Jesus 'as an high priest after the order of Melchisedek'.

So when it says melchizedek has no beginning what does it mean??......because it is obvious that you don't know who melchizedek is.........



If Jesus would be a high priest in the order of melchizedek what does it tell you...??....

true2god: So if we say that someone has no beginning of days nor end of life, we can deduce that such has existed frm the begining. I dnt say Melchisedek is God cos i hav limited info concerning him. But u agree with me that God has no beginning of days and end of life. Logically, Melchisedek has a form of divinity with the afore-mention trait. Only God can expalin who Melchisedek really is.

Please melchizedek has no beginning or end...let us confirm if he is GOD so that we can understand the he has no beginning and end issue.......

Or maybe there is suppose to be a 4th person to make it quadruplicity.......

You must know who melchizedek be o......

benalvino: he is the king of righteousness no one can be the king of righteousness except God... he appeared to Abraham... he is the king of Salem know as Jerusalem.

So GOd is melchizedek??

Talk am make I go drink alomo bitters then sleep.......

benalvino: Philippians 2:5-11

New International Version (NIV)


5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:


6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
when Christ was in heaven God did not Give him that... he cant bleed he creates he was GOD then the bible says he drops all that... he gave it up he emptied him self n became a flesh a servant... So he became dependent on his father.
the father was in him through the holy spirit which wasn't the case before he came down...

So as a man Jesus needs the holy spirit aid.

And as a man Jesus could tell lies and trick us.....

And who gave you the impression Jesus isn't dependent on the Father now as he is in heaven??...

Did Jesus drop his memory in heaven??....

Why are you guys mutilating Jesus like this??.......

Has there ever been a time when Jesus was never dependent on his Father??....

John 5:19
New Living Translation (©2007)
So Jesus explained, "I tell you the
truth, the Son can do nothing by
himself. He does only what he sees
the Father doing. Whatever the
Father does, the Son also does.




Do those words sound like one who does not remember where he came from and not knowing if he always depended on the Father??.......

Did Jesus forget all the times he spent with his Father before coming to the earth??....did he??.....

Did Jesus suffer memory LOSS??...

You guys are using phillipians 2:5-6 the wrong way and it is only making you guys sound funny and lame and also projecting Jesus as a confused fellow............

benalvino: he is yet to provide a scripture where the father gave him his deity. lol the verse you quote state he is GOD... along with many other verse. they are still trying to say God is a title when one is not a title because it is divine it can create the other is just a title you and me can answer because we can be an idol any day any time if someone worships us. or we can command other people to take the life of others...

Colossians 1:19-20
New International Version (NIV)
19 For God was pleased to have all
his fullness dwell in him, 20 and
through him to reconcile to himself
all things, whether things on earth
or things in heaven, by making
peace through his blood, shed on
the cross.

Godhead= Gods divine qualities.....

The GODhead,Gods divine qualities is what the Father posseses and he gives it to whom ever he wishes......

So Christ having the divine qualities of His Father in him in no way makes him equal with his Father.....

And may I remind you....

Neither of any of the 3 belongs to a Godhead...the Godhead belongs to the Father alone,but he gives it out and he is not in it or part of it.....

benalvino: I say the ruler you can stick with beginning...

......

benalvino: melchizedek is a symbol of Christ

And??...someone like melchizedek never existed??......

shdemidemi: My friend, study Philip 2:5-8 that I pasted to you. You would understand what God did through Christ

Philippians 2:5-8 can't help you......

Because in heaven as we speak Jesus remains not all knowing......

He remains subject to the Father....

And he isn't all powerful.......

benalvino: the father is the cause of existence jesus is also the cause of existence that means jesus was not created.

So can I also call the Father the begiining of Gods creation??....

Answer now as you don say both of them na the cause of existence......

Even if you have closed ya eyes to the biblical definition of one being the beginning of someone else's activity......

true2god: I told u that there is no much info on the person of Melchisedek. The bible said 'he has no beginning nor end of day, he is just like the son of God (Jesus)'. The writer of Hebrew made that analogy\comparism and not me. So, even if u dnt believe me, believe wat the Hebrew writer said.

This verse is still consistent with John 1:1; Rev 3:14; Collosian 1:15-17; 1tim 3:16; etc.

Jesus said 'I am Aplha and the omega, the beginning and the end, the first and last (Rev 22:13), the prophet Isaiah called him 'the Mighty God' (isaiah 9:6), the apostle paul said 'he (Jesus) being in God's form....' (philipian 2:5-......), and the apostle paul told timothy '...God was manifest in the Flesh....' (1tim 3:16). And so many other verses that spoke of the person of Christ.

Can i ask u y it is only the NWT that inserted 'other' in collosian 1:16? The implication of inserting 'other' in that text? What it will read\mean if 'other' was not inserted by the watchtower org? But they were even fair to have put the 'other' in bracket knowing fully well dat it was not meant to be there in the 1st place hence can easily misinform an ordinary reader who does not understand watch-tower's doctrine with respect to the person of Jesus vis-a-vis his divinity.
Now back to Revelation 3:14, u cannot take a single verse in isolation to interprete others. There must be proper reconciliation to avoid u contradicting urself.

Wen u compare Rev 3:14 (...the beginning of God creation) and Isiaiah 9:6 (...'the mighty God' description) u will undertand that that term, the beginning of God creation, is descriptive of the person of christ and not 'the 1st of God's creation'. The Bible says in the beginning 'God created the heaven and the earth'.

The bible did not say God created Jesus, then Jesus created the heaven and the earth. This notion is only held by the watch-tower org by inserting 'other' in col 1:16 in order to validate their false teaching.

Please can you evoke an example to prove the scriptures otherwise??.......

Please all I need from you guys is to show me how one can be the beginning of someone else's work and not be a part of that work but the first of it....

Please an example.....please I beg ona......

Now let me ask you the same question I've been asking benalvino....

Can we also call the Father the beginning of Gods creation??.....

And as regards hebrews 7:3 I ask again....

Is it true we have another being that has no beginning ??......

Is melchizedek also God??.....answer me...

You quoted hebrews so bring answers.....

benalvino: in other words if you are not a thing you are not created by Jesus? if we go by your logic...

a creature is a thing. you are trying to bring out another meaning that will contradict colossians... it says all things in heaven and earth. if by things you mean sand water etc... you are saying jesus did not create adam and eve. another contradiction. if he is a thing he cant create all things... if he is a thing he can create all other things.

yes through jesus everything came into existence and bible made it clear not a single thing came into existence without the word of GOD... period. if something came into existence like you said jesus then there is a contradiction because it says not a single thing came into existence without him. Jesus didn't bring him self into existence you and I know that... and nothing come into existence without him... I don't know about you but I see it clearly in the Bible.

And Jesus even when on earth showed you that the Father is the cause of existence but you rejected Jesus' own words..........

Now may I ask you.....

Jesus isn't amongst the things created through him,that doesn't stop him(Jesus) from being created or caused by God the Father.......

He is the beginning of Gods creation......

shdemidemi: Unlike you, the Pharisees understood the Torah and they knew what being the son of God means.....you have eyes but you can't see, just as it was written.

So being the son of GOD means one is the same with the Father??.......

Lol........

Even the demons and satan know that there is but one GOD the Father and that Jesus isn't equal to his Father..............

Please read Jesus' reply when he told the pharisees that Ye are Gods.....

Jesus was even reminding them that he said he was Gods son and not even GOD himself.....

shdemidemi: I believe Philippians 2:5-8 makes everything you claim Christ really is, is not all He really is-
New International Version (NIV)
5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!


He made himself nothing, so when you now use what he made himself as a doctrine you would be definitely wrong.

He humbled himself and developed amnesia at the same time......

So Jesus' humility was not shown when he uttered the words at john 8:58??...........

So we can say sometimes Jesus was humble,other times he was as proud as hitler.....

How clearer can Jesus' words get.....

Only THE FATHER knows......

I hope you can see why revelation 1:1 still tells you Jesus recieves revelations from the Father....

shdemidemi: John 10:30-33
New International Version (NIV)
30 I and the Father are one.”

31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

Is it this same Christ, you are referring to?

Wayo man...why didn't you read down the next 3 verses.........see am jare...

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in
your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]?
35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word
of God came—and Scripture cannot be set
aside— 36 what about the one whom the
Father set apart as his very own and sent into
the world? Why then do you accuse me of
blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?


I think you and the pharisees have the same problem of not understanding who Jesus really is/was......

shdemidemi: Are we talking about the same Christ -

John 8:58
New International Version (NIV)
58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”


14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am.[a] This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”

Is He the same one you are talking about?

And he was ignorant of when the day and hour when the end would come but only the Father....

Doesn't it tell you that your understanding of john 8:58 is completely warped??......

So Jesus' flesh allowed him say the above in john 8:58 but when it got to mark 13:32 he developed amnesia inside the flesh he was in.........

......

benalvino: and my point is if [other] is not there and you maintain that Jesus is created then there is a contradiction because a created cant be a creator... if he is created he is a thing and a thing cannot create all things... this is the aspect you cant run from. the only way you can maintain he is created and not contradict your self is by using new world translation. and even when you use it another question will come out. how come [other] is there?

you are not... and since you are not using it. if jesus is created, How come he is the creator of all things? did he create him self?

Are the angels who were created things??.....are they not persons??.....

adam was created...was adam a thing??.....

and again when It says all things it does not except Jesus who was first created(beginning of Gods creation)...........

That is why you have rev 3:14 and 1 corinthians 8:6 to reveal the rest of the truth.......

Jesus remains the agent through which God used to create all things(with Jesus not being excepted from creation but the first of it)......

It is this same sense that is shown when God cofers all power to Jesus to rule all things with Jesus not excepted from being under Gods authority........1 corinthians 15:27-28

shdemidemi: Did you read in first John that He became flesh. What will be the point of coming to prove He is actually God when He wasn't ready to begin His reign on earth. It will be revealed that He has all the power when He comes back to reign forever.

If your question there is the reason why you won't believe in this gospel...tough

And 1 corinthians 15:24-28 pictures the son handing over the authority given to him by the Father and made subject to the Father for all eternity.....

Please even in the end Christ remains subject and less than the Father...

So what else do you want from Christ??...smh

shdemidemi: Lol..see dog that sees bone. Outline what the Holy Spirit did in the old compared to what He is doing now. Don't get me wrong, the father, the son and the Holy Spirit have always been one from time as the the name God implies and the book of Genesis and many more testify.

Did it occur to you that Yahweh our God is one Yahweh......

You can't be forcing a conglomerate of persons inside one GOD....the scriptures points out that the one GOD is the Father.....

Are the other members of the trinity the Father??....

shdemidemi: Your questions sef, similar to saying can father do this or that to the Holy Spirit or can Holy Spirit do that for the father..They are the same, we get all this words like God gave Christ because we knew Christ in the flesh. Is He really limited to the flesh-No

They are not the same.......and you are going back and forth.....

We are told these 3 persons are distinct......

Now why can't the other 2 persons making up the trinity show there co-equality by once in there whole life sending the Father on an errand....why can't the Father for once be the one receiving revelations or authority from them??........

Why??......

shdemidemi: Simply because the orthodox Jewish man does not believe Christ came, let alone died. Why do you think they killed Peter, Paul and the rest. Christ and the Holy Spirit were not active in the old, so how would they really understand this part and nature of God as revealed to us through Christ and the Holy Spirit.

But go ask the present Jews who don't believe in Jesus but who still believe God would send the messiah,if that messiah that would be sent is GOD the Father himself....

Please go and ask the Jews.........

Ask them....

And who told you the holy spirit was not active in the old testament....

How did moses and the rest prophets pen down the old testament??....